Tesla Powerwall 3 Vs Franklin Battery

[@billjohnson3344]

Good comparison, but not seeing how Franklin is an easier install than Tesla. Several items missed here, including that Tesla also has the drill assisted dolly. But more importantly, that many jurisdictions allow the Tesla Backup Switch meter collar to be used - greatly simplifying whole home backup installation with no service/feeder wiring to redo or transfer switch to wire. So install should be the same or better with Tesla, and X-factor point given for that - not to mention it has an impressive 6 MPPT channel solar inverter in the unit. And Tesla can AC couple to other solar also - if you don't want to do that. Also would like to see mention on how you can parallel 4 units, and/or add more battery capacity to a single unit - and how that compares to Franklin.

[@pops71]

Tesla also has a battery lift system 😊

[@DavidBreuner]

I have two Franklin batteries with 28 solar panels (10.2KW system) with enphase micro invertors. Batteries were a retrofit. I am in CA with NEM 2.0 so full dollar for dollar credit from PGE. Franklin customer service is fantastic. Real person answers every time. I am using my system in Time of Use mode, which means that my home will never pull from the grid during peak 4-9PM periods. I am charging my batteries up during the day, and draining them at night down to 20% minimum. What sold me on Franklin was the smart circuit technology, where I have my Tesla home charger on one additional circuit, and my 3.5 Ton AC on the other. And the batteries are then connected to my essential circuit panel (basically the whole home except for pool, hot tub, washer/dryer and oven). I also added the backup generator module ($1200) so I can have double redundancy with my 7000 watt continuous invertor generator that can be utilized during extended winter outages when the sun doesn't shine. The other cool feature is the Franklin is tied into the National weather service, and if a potential power outage is forecasted, it will go into emergency back up mode and use the grid to quickly (regardless of solar output) charge the batteries to 100% in case the forecast is correct. This happend about a month ago when we had a brown out and the system worked perfectly when I was out of town. Battery kicked on when my house sitter was there, and she called to say that the laundry wasn't working... she didn't even know that the home was in emergency battery mode, and I could see in the app that the grid kicked on early in the day even when the sun was shining to max charge it up to 100%. I believe tesla has this same storm watch feature, but the DO NOT have the generator module. That sealed the deal for me.

[@gusfusses44]

These scoring break downs done here show where the bias is. If one system puts out a continuous amount of power that is more than double the other there is no way that only a one point difference. Also installing one piece of equipment that's lighter than the other one should be easier than installing two pieces of equipment that's heavier and takes up more space. Which explains the cost of installation difference. Why would it cost more if it's easier. Make this makes sense. ANYBODY

[@zrumble]

Tesla 3rd party is a complete hassle & expense to deal with in Oklahoma. Tesla needs to sell the batteries separate from a dealer…

[@DanielWhitcraft-m8d]

Great job on this Analysis. I have been looking for someone to explain the difference between these two options and you did a great job. Thanks!

[@bladerunner1458]

I am looking at putting a solar system in using the Tesla power wall three battery. I have an existing Generac 16 kW generator that’s 20 years old. It has its transfer switch with its panel.. what I plan to do is run my critical loads off the generator panel. The Tesla battery will supply the main panel which will supply the generator panel. in a power outage, the Tesla battery will take over. if the Tesla battery becomes low, I could start the generator and run the critical loads. When Solar comes back, I could switch over to the Tesla battery. Unfortunately I will not be able to charge the battery from the generator however, in time, I’m I hope there will be a device that you can to attach to the battery to enable this to happen. Thank you for the comparison. do you know what type of lithium ion batteries are used in each battery?

[@tomdangelo3162]

When we spoke in December, you weren't to keen on the Franklin, due to integration issues. Has things gotten better in that regard? As for installation, if your utility allows the use of the Tesla backup collar, that saves installers hours of time!!

[@jmh2138]

I would like to see a video on Savant battery, the ins and outs, the full lineup of their home management, pros and cons etc. love the content on this channel! Thanks

[@Bowhunters6go8xz6x]

I like the idea of a DIY battery system like a Canadian Solar EP Cube or an Ethos stackable battery system that has stackable individual battery packs with an inverter control system. One person can install it themselves or with the help of an electrician to wire it in and years later if one of the small stackable battery packs goes bad they only need to replace that one cheaper bad battery pack instead of needing to buy and replace an entire Franklin or Powerwall unit. You can also add more stackable battery packs to increase your storage capacity instead of having to buy another full sized Franklin or Powerwall unit. Stackable battery units also take up less wall space !

[@mickkaylor]

Im very surprised to see you scored Franklin higher than Powerwall 3. You could have given more “X-Factors” to Powerwall 3…. Franklin ESS is a great product but the continuous power output of Powerwall 3 can’t be matched especially for large homes in hot climates needing energy for multiple HVAC units? Love all your videos but this comparison didn’t cover everything.

[@roosfamily5735]

I prefer Storz Power coupled with the Sol-Ark 15 kW inverter.

[@PNWLiving1725]

i have enphase 8m micro-inverters, with a generac generator. how would i do the Franklin battery to allow the solar iq8m to still collect solar in the day when the grid is down? could i just turn off the outside switch to generator? i know its complicated.

[@manudyse9817]

I am researching an energy solution for a new home build. I would like to think about multiple power generation methods. I would really like some suggestions.

[@thomasjacques5286]

UPDATE. I erred, the PW3 CANNOT be used with Enphase IQ8 inverters. I stand corrected.

[@SuperSushiRoll]

@@boblatkey7160 "" Well that sounds like a pile of nonsense because the power wall three is DC coupled and not designed to work with an existing Enphase system. And there are numerous other battery manufacturers that have a warranty that's even better than the 70% warranty you mentioned for the Tesla power wall. "" Educate yourself before spewing stupidity. It can be AC coupled now. I still don't like their products, but at least I'm not ignorant about the facts.

[@thomasjacques5286]

@@SuperSushiRoll well your right. I crossed the PW2 with the 3. The 3 cannot be used with Enphase IQ8 inverters. Thanks for correcting me.

[@SuperSushiRoll]

​@@thomasjacques5286 ​ You're not corrected, @boblatkey7160, who I quoted because he would delete his comment, is wrong, and was condescending in the way he posted it. You should be able to AC couple the Powerwall 3 with Enphase microinverters (you'd need to research and verify this). But as of this past April the PW3 can be AC coupled. No need to settle for the arguably much worse PW2.

[@stevesmith-sb2df]

When a hurricane hits it will knock out grid, internet, and cellular service. Can you monitor and control either of these without internet or cellular? I think the Tesla app depends on internet or cellular working. I definitely like the generator input because I believe in a layered approach during a disaster.

[@marcppparis]

I’d like to see a Tesla power wall that didn’t include the inverter etc (other than battery inverter) it would be lighter/ cheaper, inverter agnostic and better for retrofit situations especially given how net metering is pretty much going away everywhere. The power output and storage of power wall great otherwise

[@FarmtheSunUSA]

I want to install the Powerwall 3 on an outside house wall. I hear that there is some sort of heating device for the Powerwall 3 in an outside environment that kicks in when the temperature falls below minus 4 degrees F.

[@thawk1979]

I have a generator(generac) and am interested in adding solar down the road. I would be interested in hearing what my options are.

[@stevepessy]

Looking at a Enphase system but using tesla batteries. The company also wants to do Micro inverters since I will get some shade on the panels but I am not sure since tesla system has them built in. We do have a whole home Generator but it's on the main panel with a interlock. If we had to use it how would the Tesla system know it's not coming from the grid. Since it's on the main panel. It should work that way?

[@SolarSurge]

It's OK to have solar on a home with generator backup, but the connection from the Enphase combiner to the grid must be outside and above your main panel near the meter base.

[@AdventuresInTheSky]

Powerwall all the way!

[@hank-kal]

I am not sure that the Tesla Powerwall 3 is such a great bargin, even when ignoring the fact that it is designed only for a main string inverter type of install with no panel-level optimization and no panel-level monitoring capabilities. From an NEM 3.0 self consumption effectiveness point of view, as well as being able to sustain longer than 1-2 hours of a power loss period for the backup use cases, Tesla's Powerwall 3 13.5 kWH capacity with its continuous 11.5 kW power ratio doesn't give any advantage. The continuous 11.5 kW power sounds more like a marketing story than an actual benfit. It doesn't make any sense to install a single PW3 when a continuous 11.5 kW power is needed, since a continuous consumption of 11.5kW will drain an entire single 13.5 kWH battery within 70 minutes (one hour and 10 minutes). This means that a useful whole home install will require at least two batteries, if not three, because of the capacity needs. Given that, the Franklin's 13.6 kWH capacity and continuous 5 kW power ratio makes much more sense as a building block, since it will take 164 minutes (2 hours and 44 minutes) to completely drain. From here we can do the math: - A single FranklinWH battery: up to 5 kW of continuous power for at least 2 hours and 44 minutes. - Two FranklinWH batteries: up to 10 kW of continuous power for at least 5 hours and 28 minutes. - Three FranklinWH batteries: up to 15 kW of continuous power for at least 8 hours and 12 minutes. Given the need for multiple batteries for any NEM 3.0 practical self consumption and backup use cases, and given that the collar approach is not applicable for an install of more than a single PW3 battery, the Tesla Gateway along with an extra Critical Load Center Panel are also required with a multi-battery install, which blows away the theoretical cost advantage of a single Tesla Powerwall 3 with a collar install connected directly to the main panel. Also, based on the fact that the Tesla Powerwall 3 with its internal built-in inverter(s) is more than 100 lbs lighter, as well as smaller in dimension compared to the FranklinWH LFP based battery, it is highly unlikely that the Tesla Powerwall 3 chemistry is LFP based. Most likely still the older and less efficient and safe NMC based, like the Powerwall 1 and 2.

[@boblatkey7160]

Yes Tesla is a lot of marketing hype, but it is definitely an LFP battery however new studies are showing that they are not much safer than anything else and are actually vastly more toxic in the event of a fire. There is simply too much marketing information rather than factual information.

[@miltonhare2461]

@@boblatkey7160I’m a big LFP fan - I haven’t seen anything about higher toxicity, or any fires for that matter unless massively overcharged. Would love more info if you’ve got links.

[@hank-kal]

​@@boblatkey7160 If the Tesla Powerwall 3 is "definitely an LFP battery" how come they are not stating that anywhere? All of the other companies that offer LFP batteries (e.g. FranklinWH, Enphase, Canadian Solar, and others) are proudly stating that, as well as the fact that as a result they are also UL9540A approved. Also, installing multiple Tesla Powerwall 3 batteries requires at least 3 feet space between them in California. That is not the case with LFP batteries that were able to be tested for UL9540A and thus can be mounted within 6 inches of each other. I still doubt that the Tesla Powerwall 3 is LFP based. I would like to see an official statement or a spec doc from Tesla stating that.

[@hank-kal]

Perhaps the Tesla Powerwall 3 uses CATL M3P cells or some variation of M3P (includes other metallic elements, such as magnesium, zinc, and aluminum, in place of the iron in LFP batteries), which might explain the fact that it is lighter, smaller in dimension, and has a higher energy density than other iron based LFP batteries? That might also explain the fact that it is not (yet?) UL9540A approved.

[@boblatkey7160]

@@hank-kal well I work for another manufacturer and we were told directly from Tesla that it is an LFP battery. Second, Los Angeles Department of water and power said they are going to enforce the 3 foot rule for batteries in excess of 20 kWh per battery bank. They do not care about what type of lithium chemistry it is and they refused to differentiate.

[@AmmitOsiris]

I currently have 52 Sunpower 330w panels and 2 Tesla 7.6 kw inverters. I’d like to get backup power added. Like the Franklin whole home.

[@CC-mj3zq]

That's an interesting system how did you end up with Tesla inverters and SunPower panels. Go with the Franklin.

[@AmmitOsiris]

@@CC-mj3zq good deal on the panels. And the solar company recommended the inverters.

[@CC-mj3zq]

Ok, that works! I'm sure Joe can set you up with a good design! I prefer Franklin if it fits but I would see what design works best.

[@nicksgarage2]

I just signed up to get two Powerwall 3s using the backup switch. I have two separate existing solar systems, one with Enphase IQ7s and one with SolarEdge inverter. All the old inverter components will be removed to use the built in inverters. Will greatly simplify my system and after having two SolarEdge inverter failures over 6 years, I'm hoping for a more reliable simple system and whole home backup including a/c.

[@KB3M]

Why not just use smart outlets for any non essential loads? 100% granular and far cheaper than a new smart panel plus installation. Also, twice the power is only worth 1 point for Tesla and the integrated inverter should even out installation ease.

[@Robert-fm2nc]

Good comparison I can get 3 powerwall batteries for the price of one Franklin battery. ( quote for full solar power installation). Cost makes up for any “disadvantages “ powerwall has

[@jackcoats4146]

We have a powerwall 2 (actually 3 of them). Either now or later can we add more battery? Preferably Tesla, possibly other. Our inverters are APSystems DS3, and we use the Tesla Gateway. The electric power company is our 'backup'. Here in Clarksville TN we can sell some excess power for about 1/3 of the cost of power.

[@CC-mj3zq]

I think a good x Factor category here would be support.

[@DaleVohler]

No mention of the use of PowerShare if you have a CyberTruck which almost 10 times the battery capacity.

[@thombech9553]

In Connecticut, the powerwall does not qualify for the upfront battery incentive through energy storage solutions making it more expensive than the Franklin in my case.

[@awbean5254]

Joe, great comparison! Can you do a comparison with the Franklin & EG4-WallMount Indoor Battery | 48V 280Ah | 14.3kWh | Indoor | Heated UL1973, UL9540A | 10-Year Warranty?

[@brucesummers7448]

Where I live I have 5-6 power outages from my supplier PG&E and these last for up to 5 days. Having one day of battery backup power is a bad investment. I put my money into a natural gas standby generator that can run for months with no issues.

[@GerardoRodriguez-ov5se]

Great video. I would like to see a comparison between a portable solar generator vs. a home battery. For example, Eco Flow Ultra vs. FranklinWH or Tesla. I don’t know if you work with portable batteries. Thank you.

[@glenncook8140]

I'm looking to start with the batteries before going solar. My roof is 8 years old, and I don't want to install the solar panels then pay to have them removed when I have to replace the shingles. I also will fight the HOA to get a metal roof on before going solar. I plan to use the batteries for my whole home during the day, and switch to grid at night allowing the batteries to recharge. I like the idea of having a generator to recharge the batteries should the grid go down. Does the Powerwall 3 not allow for a generator to recharge them? Thanks for the response.

[@jasonrambeau4086]

I have two Franklin batteries and everything I was told they would do, they do. I can power my whole home minus the stove and dryer being on at the same time but when you’re in a power outage you’re going to eliminate the big power loads anyway that’s why the power wall 3 battery will drain quickly to much power output at one time

[@danielcapson9842]

Joe, can you review the Ethos Battery Backup System with Solar... The price is off the chart good and I want to know your take on this.

[@chrisbeach5206]

Always great content. Thank you! I'd like to see you spend some time on EV/bi-directional charging!

[@shaggydogsales]

Just installed 2 pw3s in my home and the install couldn't have been easier with the telsa lift and integrated/pre-wired inverter. I would rate install a 5, telsa really did make this very easy for installers. Also the seamless app integration with my existing ev wall charger and telsa car works great and worth at least another x factor point.

[@AnonymousMiner2]

I came for actual prices, feeling let down

[@williamlabarre4755]

What other solutions do you see for generator integration? Like the Tesla but, it only works for one charge, then you are on genset only.

[@justlama0]

Are you going to live forever to recoup the cost of this crap?

[@barry28907]

Chemistry? Is the difference in safety and cycle life significant?

[@AdamD-o8v]

I have been waiting for that comparaison for so long! Thank you!

[@franklinfoy6489]

What is your opinion on the Midnite Solar Rosie 7048 inverter?

[@boblatkey7160]

Great for hobby gear or if you're going to live off grid without a permit. Probably not going to get a permit if you were tied to the electrical grid.

[@coasttal123]

I would give Tesla a 5 on capacity and Franklin a 3. On installation, I would give Tesla a 5 and Franklin a 3. There will be less switches with Tesla, plus no inverters on the roof and I go DC to DC. This makes Tesla better for efficiency.

[@jacksmith7082]

I have 24 panels on my roof that all work with the in phase 7 inverters. I don’t want to be forced into nim three but I would like a battery for storage if shit hits the fan. What should I do and where should I go?

[@boblatkey7160]

LG Home 8

[@lilboy32367]

Should you install a soft starter on the hvac ac unit to help the battery with not discharging so much energy if you only have 1 battery instead of 2 ?

[@boblatkey7160]

Yes, it will reduce the surge current draw.

[@ClayBellBrews]

So I think you missed some x-factor. The Powerwall’s power switch is worth at least 2 if not 3 points. It’s easy to install, it’s cheaper than any other switching system and coupled to the power wall it allows you to put a 60 amp breaker in a 200amp breaker box.

[@SolarSurge]

Good feedback. We have a video coming out soon that focuses on Tesla unique advantages including the backup switch.

[@ClayBellBrews]

@@SolarSurge oops, sorry, yes, I meant the backup switch. So more points: The batteries and other components connect via Ethernet and tcp/ip and master and slave are automatic, no config needed, just cable to the router, and daisy-chain the batteries. They have some other software updates coming as well that in theory would let them connect to other batteries via serial. What I’d love is to see is Enphase create an app that runs on or connects to the tesla and gets rid of my enphase controller box.

[@SDGreg]

I think one X-Factor you missed for the Tesla is in some areas of the country the system can participate in the VPP programs. I have a SunFusion Energy storage system DC Coupled with Sol-Ark inverters. I am working on installing a generator input on my battery cabinet so I can if necessary charger my batteries from a generator. My house is on Propane so I plan on just using a propane powered generator for this.

[@richardcauthen4252]

Neither both are junk and way to expensive. I just added to EG4 wall mount batteries and got 28.8 KWH for 8 Grand. And peform way better then both and i got a15 year warranty

[@brucesummers7448]

Both systems should be installed outside of the building envelope as they produce toxic gases when they catch fire.

[@damon808]

If your house is on fire you shouldn’t be inside breathing fumes.

[@ClayBellBrews]

So I use my AGate generator circuit to connect to my F-150 Powerboost. A full (29g) gas tank gives me about 233 kw/hrs at 220v/30a. And I can leave for a few days if I need to hunt up some gas :). Apocalyptic scenarios aside, I really like the system, it gets me the best of micro-inverter, black start, generator support, and load shedding all in just 1 box plus batteries. Cost-wise, I feel like it’s still competitive if you want those features. The tesla would still need a Span smart panel for shedding and a generator failover controller. And at least 2 if not 3 apps to run it all. Now if I had a Cybertruck, the built in integration would make the powerwall a no brained, but outside of that, I think FranklinWH is still a better deal.

[@ClayBellBrews]

I should add that I’ve got about 9 months use on mine.