Tesla Powerwall Vs Enphase Battery

[@That-Guy_]

My 2 Tesla powerwalls and solar panels got me through the 44hr Houston blackout Worth the investment

[@SolarSurge]

That's great to hear! Please share this story on social media. I have gotten so many negative comments from people claiming solar power failed Texas. These recent events are exactly why you need to do solar + storage at the home level so that you are protected. Utility scale solar farms do nothing to protect individual homes and families.

[@mondotv4216]

@@SolarSurge and that was also a butt covering lie by the governor of Texas. Solar and wind performed exactly as expected during the Texas storm, while coal and gas plants failed.

[@tysonb1486]

@@mondotv4216 our wind turbine farm we have in our province ran fine in -40c up here in Canada last week.

[@vetesta8704]

@That Guy, I'm located in the Houston area also, did you go directly through Tesla or a independent contractor. Any info is greatly appreciated. I'm in the market solar battery back up after that whole ordeal

[@SolarSurge]

@@vetesta8704 I can help you get setup with solar + Tesla. Please email us at [e-mail]

[@markedwards4879]

My powerwall 2 in Australia quite happily let’s the solar power the house during a blackout. It regulates the emphase micro inverters on the roof by varying the frequency. We had a 34 hour blackout after a storm last year, and the house finished the blackout with a full battery.

[@fjalics]

That is pretty sweet. Do you also use it to avoid sending your solar generation to the grid?

[@markedwards4879]

@@fjalics it’s set to optimise self sufficiency. Solar goes to the house first, then to charge the battery. Any excess goes to the grid - so if I’m generating more than 5kW excess then it’ll charge the battery and feed the grid since the max charge rate of the powerwall is 5kW. Generally what happens is that the powerwall fills up and then I end up powering the house from the roof and exporting to the grid. If the house draws more than the solar generation then the battery infills.

[@fjalics]

@@markedwards4879 So you don't seem to be experiencing what the guy described as a problem with the powerwall, right? Also, how much solar do you have?

[@markedwards4879]

@@fjalics 16x250W and 12x300W panels with 16xME215-E and 12xIQ7 Enphase microinverters. That roughly works out to just over 6kW. I’m in Australia and my house is oriented with an East-West facing roof. The whole house is on the eastern edge of a north-south running ridge such that I’m shaded in the afternoon by tall trees that are higher to the west of the house. (It’s very steep). In the winter solstice the sun drops low in the north (Southern Hemisphere remember) and Is also shaded by very tall trees for some of the day. I haven’t seen the problem that he’s described at all, and during two extended blackouts - one being 34 hours and the other being 8 - the powerwall charged and operated normally until around 96% capacity. The solar output was being regulated and the house kept running normally but the UPSes that I have on my computers and PVR’s sounded alarms that the grid frequency was out of spec. We were looking for loads to throw on to absorb the power and silence the alarms lol. If it happens again I’ll probably plug in my Tesla to the portable adapter and charge at 2.5kW. All-in-all the powerwall functioned perfectly and everything keep running during the outage. The most annoying thing was that the cable internet and local mobile tower for my provider were affected, so viewing what the powerwall was up to was restricted to the local wifi. The powerwall itself has a cellular connection in it that uses another provider and had failed over from wifi to that, so it was quite happy.

[@fjalics]

@@markedwards4879 Very nice. Makes you wonder how much backup power they would need to keep the cable internet, and the local mobile tower running. I have a 6.2 kw system, in Ohio. 20 x 310W Astroenergy modules, and a Solaredge inverter and 20 DC optimizers. I have 16 facing south, 2 east, and 2 west. I have some shading issues too. I don't have any batteries yet, but I have net metering, so I might get more solar, before I get batteries. Probably ground mount. My stuff turns off when the power goes out. It just doesn't happen often, or for very long.

[@kylequest]

Looking at the Enphase battery system, it might be a more robust system than the Tesla Powerwall. The Enphase battery is using 12 of their micro invertors as blades in the battery. Enphase was also able to design their system with passively cooled lithium iron phosphate batteries. They have a round trip efficiency of 96%, compared to Tesla's 92%. Enphase is ahead by not having the complexity and risk involved with the liquid cooled Lithium Ion batteries as the Tesla Powerwall has. Enphase should also have higher cycle life and charge performance/efficiency in cold weather due to the better Lithium Iron Phosphate chemistry.

[@lgscorp2008]

Finally, a solar power video worth watching! Thank you!

[@SolarSurge]

Glad it was helpful!

[@JohnDoe-xr8dz]

My Enphase has notified me a couple of times that it went into storm alert where the battery stores 100% in anticipation of the grid going down. 99% of the time AZ weather is predictable and Enphase can get me through the whole day with little demand on the grid by supplementing solar production as needed in the day, and keeping the minor electrical things going at night. We try to schedule use of the electric dryer for midday as well as EV charging. We try to sell as little to the grid as we can because the utility pays us half as much as they charge per KWH. I am happy with Enphase.

[@SolarSurge]

Very good points here. This is especially important during a grid-down event. You should shift all of your heavy electricity consumption activities (EV charging, clothes drying, vacuum, etc) to daylight hours so that the solar can carry the load. This approach will leave more battery power available for use during evening hours.

[@lawrencebooth3910]

These presentations are very well done! I have found them very helpfull.

[@jimmyvole851]

Not sure when this video was made, but during the outage the back up power from powerwalls & solar works hand to hand

[@_hotneutron_]

Correct. During outrage, my solar panel provides the power to the house and charges the powerwall as long as it's not full.

[@FulltimingBrinkley3950]

Same with my Tesla system, works hand in hand. This guy must like Enphase more, haha

[@SolarSurge]

Thanks for the feedback. I will correct this point in a future video.

[@jimmyvole851]

@BMW R1200GS Adventure wrong, doesn’t matter it’s on grid or off grid, the battery will charge until it hits 100, if it is off grid the battery will stop charging at 98%

[@jimmyvole851]

@BMW R1200GS Adventure don’t know how you got that the Tesla gateway 2 shut down during outage, my system has been running by itself for the past 3 wks as I turned off my main breaker to see how it handles... been 3 weeks buddy, it charges itself during the daytime

[@ethanBmartin]

As an investor in solar products and companies, thanks for the breakdown!

[@jurgentraude7669]

Good information Joe. Looking forward to more about Enphase and comparison to other systems.

[@donbomer5630]

Excellent presentation! I learned a lot.

[@SolarSurge]

Glad it was helpful!

[@shroud1390]

Also one advantage of the Enphase is redundancy. It has multiple microinverters inside vs one inverter in the powerwall

[@SolarSurge]

Good point!

[@JaiUneGuruDeja]

Your presentation and presentation skills are second to none. Thank you, SIR. IMHO, Enphase isn't catching Tesla because they will not be manufacturing batteries as Tesla will by the end of 2021. And I own 20 Enphase IQ7's and like them.

[@flanniganflintson1135]

@Bigtech Oligarchy Turn off the internet mate. You've had too much.

[@jpe1]

@Bigtech Oligarchy amazing combination of homophobia and racism in a single comment. You could have stopped at “presentation is average at best” but no, you went for the insult hat trick.

[@fluxcapacitor1621]

Enphase is surpassing Tesla with the ability to utilize full solar panel production during a power outage. They're also going to add the ability to integrate a generator.

[@avivarusi]

Have you considered Sonnen batteries as well? I’d be curious to see a comparison of that system as well if possible.

[@SamSam-bv3vn]

Very good presentation. Thank you Joe.

[@joshgray1331]

Excellent, professional presentation! thank you sir!

[@JoseGonzalez-wt1do]

Texas is watching this.

[@darwinjina]

What I learned is that I need to buy a generator, or move to the same grid as a police/fire/hospital. lol. Easier to convince my spouse on a generator (that I may need once or twice a decade) than adding batteries. Oh, and get some more insulation for the garage.

[@urgetodrive]

8:48 what you're saying here is also true for Tesla solar + power wall. My system behaves this way by default. So, time to scrap a couple of X-factor points for Enphase...or at least give them to Tesla too. :-)

[@SolarSurge]

Thanks for the feedback. I just posted a new video this morning to clarify my inaccurate statement.

[@ThomMurphy]

@Solar Surge . Could you please get a bit more technical regarding the details of the subject you mentioned around 8:15 , or direct us to a source for better understanding? (Enphase "X factor") Would the Enphase (roof) micro inverters be able to support this with a battery other than an Enphase offering? I'm guessing not, but I'm curious if that's different, maybe, with the IQ8 versus the IQ7 that was available when this video was made. If you're under the rated throughput of a battery, such as the powerwall, couldn't you charge and deplete the battery simultaneously, sorta like running power hungry apps on your phone while charging it? Would there be any way to have this functionality without an Enphase battery (with another brand of battery), while using micro inverters? Is there, maybe, something that would let you deplete 1 battery (or 2) for the house while the solar charged another battery (or 2)? I understand that may limit power, but if you've got enough batteries for storage that power isn't as important as storage then that seems like it'd be simple enough some battery manufacturer must offer it, assuming there's not some other solution.

[@Jedward108]

Great video, thank you. If I understood correctly, in a grid blackout, the Powerwall would power the house on battery only and the solar PV that's generated during that time would be lost. Sounds like a significant waste of power when you need it most.

[@jeffreygnolan7012]

Important point

[@greghudson9717]

I'm in Australia, and my PW2 has a Gateway 2. Maybe this is the difference between my solar working while the grid is out ? Also, I saw a new item about someone in Texas getting a $17,000 power bill for just 4 days of usage (ouch). And I thought Uber surge pricing was bad !!!

[@bougieblackbrothernetwork4750]

The one thing you didn’t mention-in none of your videos is the app monitoring of your solar and battery levels. Also when an upcoming storm is coming the powerwall preps the battery for that possible weather problem. That’s the ultimate X Factor worth 2 points on its own.

[@kylequest]

"And our intelligent Storm Guard™ feature automatically tracks weather systems and will prioritize power backup if a storm is detected." Ephase also has an app monitoring it's invertors on the solar panels and the ones in the battery system.

[@amyrisfuture9737]

Very nice video. Exactly what I’ve been looking for. Thanks!

[@zarinth]

Thanks Joe! Great information.

[@prestonthomas9406]

I went to the solar analysis website but all the links were broken.

[@Divetech2]

What about off-grid design with backup generator to charge batteries?

[@edbouhl3100]

That would be great! But Tesla/Enphase/Generac batteries won’t charge from even an inverter generator. At most they’ll start one and switch over when battery charge depletes. MAJOR area needing improvement!

[@SolarSurge]

The Generac solar/battery backup does support battery re-charing from a generator. That's a key feature for running off-grid long term. Enphase is reportedly working on this feature as well.

[@edbouhl3100]

According to Generac FAQ, generator battery recharge is not supported. www.generac.com/service-support/faqs/clean-energy-faqs/can-pwrcell-be-connected-to-my-generator

[@SolarSurge]

@@edbouhl3100 They are working on it. You have to purchase a separate external transfer switch to make it work.

[@chuckwebb7564]

I am looking at the Enphase Backup system due to the active utilization of my solar panels during a power outage. I didn’t buy $30,000 worth of solar panels for a roof ornament during a power outage. I want to put these things to work.

[@ecmanaut]

Does Tesla’s new inverter change the picture anything about delivering any of the previously Enphase-only features?

[@SolarSurge]

Thanks for the questions. I'll be looking into that and hope to do a video about the Tesla inverter here shortly...

[@gilz2253]

There are no Enphase only features anywhere. They both do the same thing except the Enphase costs more and stores less per battery unit. Depending on how much power you would need for your system you could end up with more Enphase units taking up more space, costing more and delivering less power. The new Tesla inverter works the same as the old Solar Edge units only smaller and nicer looking...

[@williampeck9717]

The only Enphase only feature is yet unreleased IQ8 feature of creating its own micro grid. Tesla does not need it with PW.

[@sitechca70]

No, Tesla's inhouse inverter is simply a tweaked clone of their previous Delta-branded String Inverter. Nothing to do with PowerWall.

[@Driftless_Wanderer]

I have an Enphase 5kw solar array and really happy with the system, application reporting and savings in my first year. Now I’m installing the battery, Tesla is lower cost and Enphase even with the rebate was still too expensive. My installer had also researched this and recommended Tesla. I tried to give Enphase a chance but they aren’t in the race.

[@tscoff]

Sadly I’m in the same boat. If Enphase was price competitive I’d be going with them so have a single end to end solution.

[@walecious1]

you're wrong on your last point. Tesla panels /solar roof & powerwall also wo-k in parallel. the panels/solar roof can power the home charge the powerwall and send the excess to the giid, There are lots of videos already posted to youtube of this capability. During grid outages, the lbattery makes up whatever short fall in requirement If the solar generation is unable to meet the draw from the home

[@nobodyhome2318]

The inverters turn off when current is not detected from the grid, so you cannot back feed the grid. This is exactly why you can’t send excess energy to the grid. I have Tesla solar+battery system.

[@walecious1]

@@nobodyhome2318 thats a safety feature on all grid tied solar systems and that's not what my comment was about...my comment was about the x-factor dock saying Tesla solar systems only work in backup mode which yes it can work in back up only mode but is also capable of powering the home, charge the powerwall and send excess to the grid when production exceeds requirements of both the home and battery. Enphase was given 4 x-factor for a feature that both systems have!!! that is what my comment is about

[@coconutpalm1631]

@@nobodyhome2318 That is an inverter-level issue, not a Powerwall-level one. It would be interesting to see if the Enphase Ensemble has the same limitation if the solar system is using normal inverter, rather than the Enphase microinverters.

[@nobodyhome2318]

@@walecious1 yes, but during an outage the excess power has no where to go. The batteries will only charge below 60%. The solar inverters turn off and you’re running on battery only. During normal operation the panels can powers everything, charge the batteries, send excess to the grid. The power wall2’s do the same. They switch between back up storage only when charged, feed excess energy demand do to low panel production or insufficient panel production. This is during normal operation, not a grid outrage situation. You can choose whatever amount of standby reserve you want.

[@nobodyhome2318]

@@coconutpalm1631 yes it is an inverter issue, but you cannot send the extra energy to the batteries, therefore the extra energy is wasted if the battery is full. The house draws the power strictly from the batteries during an outage.

[@missscrapcraftstore7709]

Just what I needed to hear 🙌🏼🙌🏼🙌🏼🙌🏼

[@gilbrook]

Definitely want to see a redo of this comparison after Ensemble 2.0 rollout (Spring 2021). Thx.

[@SolarSurge]

Yes we will be looking at this again after Enphase has more time on the market.

[@SkepticCyclist]

And after the new 20 kwh PowerWall comes out

[@SolarSurge]

@@SkepticCyclist Yes that will be a game-changer. There is new nano lithium technology that should allows 40kWh out of the same size Powerwall as today's 10kWh model.

[@MrJBUtah]

Wish, or is this confirmed?

[@MommaHo888]

@@SolarSurge Do you have a video on this new Tech? My jaw just dropped when I read 40kWh.

[@johnstreet819]

great comparison, nice shirt

[@RobertLBarnard]

Just recently found your channel. Sure appreciate you view on these sorts of products as an electrician, also as a prepper. Great perspective! Good points about big inductive startup loads.

[@SolarSurge]

Thanks for watching! Please let me know if you have any video ideas.

[@RobertLBarnard]

@@SolarSurge I'll have to make my way through your existing videos and I'll let you know. But I'll throw this idea out there, using a heat pump to pull heat from ground and off photovoltaic panels to keep a structure at a minimum winter temperature. Also using the power from photovoltaic and (possibly) wind, with grid as backup. ;) My motivation being my parents old house in Northern Michigan. It'd be nice to not have to winterized it each fall and rather, have it ready at any time.

[@BobBesso]

Enphase vs Franklin battery comparison would be wonderful!

[@Curriefied]

Hey Joe...Thanks for your time and efforts to educate us on Solar Power and Storage for our homes! I have Tesla Solar Panel setup installed and they are currently on backordered for the Powerwalls. So I'm looking for the best alternative.

[@SolarSurge]

Sounds great! There are also some great options from Outback Power System and Generac.

[@stephen5147]

Excellent presentation. Thanks. I may have missed it... are the Enphase batteries stackable?

[@SolarSurge]

Yes they are

[@nobodyhome2318]

Great video!

[@coziii.1829]

I’m trying to find out if I can do off grid with Tesla

[@benvan2446]

I feel the software and user interface of the Tesla powerwall should have had a shout out. I don't know if the Enphase has the same but you can track and plan the off load of power for off peck times or when a automated storm warning is board cast.

[@SolarSurge]

Hi Ben. Good point. Both Tesla and Enphase have a nice monitoring app that you can use to track solar production, house load, and battery status.

[@Dmon7410]

My question is what the price of each unit

[@strykerace]

Your visual aid is showing Enphase IQ8 Microinverters which my understanding isn't commercial yet at least not to homeowners. Is this just Enphase theoretical only comparison against Tesla commercial product? Although this is battery comparison video some of the nuances of architecture extend to the rest of their product capabilities and so its important, imo. I do like the potential of what IQ8 has to offer, but if it isn't out yet then how can we use it for comparison with respect to the x-factor points?

[@SolarSurge]

Thanks for the feedback. Yes, much of this was pulled from the IQ8 announcement. We will have those available for install in Q22021

[@maspring415]

Very helpful video.

[@MrGoogle87]

I want a reason to get one, but in The Netherlands it doesn't have a benefit.. Power also never goes out

[@Butane-lj6tr]

Yeah in Europe we have better infrastructure than in the Us. Blackouts are a thing of the past. But if you ever want to free yourself from the grid, that is the way to go. But no need to get an American product there are European companies who do such products like "erma energy" if my mind does not trick me. The products are certainly less sexy than the ones from Tesla but they are at least up to date with the European safety standards. I think in the US standards are different, but i imagine Tesla must adapt its products to the European certification if they want to make business in the EU.

[@mickaelgoupil9286]

What is the best option today for South Africa ?

[@SolarSurge]

Enphase. Especially if you have frequent power outages like West Africa.

[@kindredhawk]

Thanks. Good info.

[@crosscountrycrusader]

Thank you for the video sir!

[@gadsbywc]

You didn't mention any monitoring apps. We live completely out side of any cell reception and I don't want a system tied to big brother. Are these batteries required to communicate with an app for updates and data transfer?

[@SolarSurge]

Tesla Powerwall definitely requires a connection to the mother ship. I recommend Enphase in this case.

[@stuartwolf4272]

Thanks Joe, great info, awesome shirt!

[@davefoc]

Some of the comments and the video have left me confused on the advantage the Enphase product has over the Tesla Power wall. What happens when the units are fully charged? Does the power from the solar array go directly to the house with both units? Presumably if it enabled to do so in this situation the excess power produced by the solar array is sent back to the utility? What happens when the units are at 50% charge and solar power is available? Is this the situation where the two units behave differently?

[@SolarSurge]

Good question. The difference in behavior happens when the batteries are fully charges and there is excess solar power available. In this case, Tesla just shuts down the entire solar array for at least 5 minutes, drawing off the battery during the interim. The Enphase system can intelligently turn on/off individual solar panels to throttle solar production to exactly match the need of the house. Enphase never has to shut down solar completely.

[@Optimista1234]

I will choose Ensemble. No doubt.

[@PalimpsestProd]

I wish you'd looked deeper into the simultaneous solar and battery feed. Does it negate the smaller storage and kw draw? Sun is highly variable but maybe.

[@SolarSurge]

Thanks for the feedback. I will have to look more into this. I've gotten a lot of feedback about this issue.

[@divelizard1966]

Another option available soon is a flow battery from an Australian company Redflow.

[@SolarSurge]

Very cool. Please post a link to the Flo battery if you have it.

[@peterryan7340]

I think that Redflows battery is only being marketed for commercial applications

[@divelizard1966]

@@peterryan7340 Yes for the moment, but gen 3 may be different

[@edbouhl3100]

Between California and Texas (and Australia) the demand for backup power is rapidly growing. But not all of us have room for pv solar. We need batteries that can be charged from emergency generators and probably new national standards for battery/generator sets.

[@SolarSurge]

Good points here. The Outback radian system can be installed as an uninterruptible power supply with no solar. The radian offers the generator battery recharge function.

[@edbouhl3100]

@@SolarSurge Ah, good to know! They are one of the few. And I see their equipment is listed for use in the US.

[@burritosburritos]

In California, for a single family home, would you know what is the maximum resiliency SGIP rebate you can get with enphase batteries? For example, can you get enphase 40(4x10) and get a $1/watt rebate(ie 40k rebate)? Listening to some SGIP resiliency webinars, it sounds like it matters how often the battery cycles(52x/yr). So as an installer, do you keep track the batteries you've installed and track the amount they cycle?

[@SolarSurge]

Hi J L. Thanks for the question. This is not something that we track here, but the manufacturer certainly does.

[@motozest7856]

How does the Enphase Encharge 10 compare to the LG Chem Resu 10H / 16H?

[@StreetFitsATX]

Solar and powerwall battery work together at all times during backup. I think you need to see the most recent updates for Tesla and put a disclaimer in the video

[@SolarSurge]

Yes you are correct. I will clarify this in a future video.

[@emirand3]

I live in South Texas and had a Blackout for about 5 days back in February due the freezing, would this mean that with the Enphase battery I would have had backup power for those days without a problem because it would be able to charge with my solar panels during the day or at least recharge the battery to use during the night. Am I correct?

[@SolarSurge]

Yes that is correct.

[@emirand3]

@@SolarSurge excellent!!!

[@paxshaddom6799]

Hi Joe, thanks for the great comparison. Do you offer any Eguana ESS? and if so, any chance you'll review/compare the Eguana Evolve LFP system (5kw / 14 to 42kwh)

[@tomcampbell3007]

How does the Enphase gateway compare to the Tesla gateway?

[@SolarSurge]

They basically accomplish the same task. I may do a future video showing the differences between the monitoring apps.

[@gomezadams9900]

Hi Joe, You touched on the expandability of the Tesla but not the Enphase. Can I assume that it would be the same? You also never mention anything about the wifi connectability. Can I also assume that all battery storage solutions have some sort of app. to help you monitor what they are doing?

[@SolarSurge]

Yes, both the Tesla and Enphase batteries are expandable via stacking. Each time you add another battery, you increase both max power and storage capacity.

[@stevemmm1930]

Should Tesla lose X factor points for their extended waitlist? About to have my new solar panels installed and have now been told that installer is looking at a 10 month wait for power walls! Are you seeing the same extended wait times? The power wall may be a great product but it’s mute if you can’t get one

[@SolarSurge]

I'm afraid this is a very common story. I have some customers that have been waiting 9 months.

[@southfloridainsurancebroke9967]

Does the Tesla creation of their own Inverters change or better say improve the Tesla X factors in anyways compare to enphase system?

[@SolarSurge]

No I'm afraid not. The Tesla grid-tie inverter has nothing to do with the Powerwall. At least not you. Perhaps they will form a tighter integration in the future.

[@southfloridainsurancebroke9967]

@@SolarSurge so why did Tesla create their own inverters? Any particular reason?

[@SolarSurge]

@@southfloridainsurancebroke9967 They were using inverters manufactured by Delta for their grid-tie systems. Tesla just wants everything in house so they can control both hardware and software. Similar to Apple's approach.

[@larryking9389]

do you have programs that support purchasing the Tesla Powerwall.., ? and if so are you available to converse with me about how that program work

[@SolarSurge]

Yes absolutely. Please reach out to us via email at [e-mail]

[@kelleycaptain73]

Great job thanks so much!

[@johngilletti7479]

Can you replace the micro inverters in the Tesla . like you can in the Enphase? You failed to mention that. Does the Tesla power wall have to be returned to the company that has poor customer service? When a micro inverter in the Emphases craps out, it still operates at 90% and can be quickly changed.

[@ringo2398]

Has anyone done comparisons with the Generac's PWRcell? Just curious.

[@SolarSurge]

Great question. Yes I just completed a Tesla VS Generac PWRCell video and it will be posted to this channel tomorrow morning 7am!

[@dinotheo640]

@@SolarSurge let's pump your channel up. We, really, need the info you provide. The only thing missing are the actual prices both in the US and abroad. Keep up your great work👍👍

[@SolarSurge]

@@dinotheo640 Thank you sir. I'll keep the videos coming. Please share the links!

[@Kyle-rl1dd]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/fJzanneqmKuGa7c

[@RASDB7]

@@SolarSurge ☝🏾 one of the best channels on KZbin.

[@aussiesmulticopteradventures]

Great info in your videos, thanks. Any idea how I find information on installing a DIY grid tied battery storage (not backup) system to my Enphase IQ Combiner box? Enphase are reluctant to give out any useful information as they way to sell their own battery. It just doesn't have the output amperage I want.

[@SolarSurge]

Sure. For a DIY battery install, I recommend Schneider Electric Conext XW. You can find that here: www.altestore.com/store/inverters/off-grid-inverters/schneider-electric-xw-plus-inverterchargers-p40562/#XANXW6848PRO

[@brianburnside5949]

I have two powerwall2 connected to through the tesla gateway to an enphase envoy. In a black out condition, the powerwalls charge to maximum and switch between solar and battery to keep the batteries near 100%. They don't drain to 60% and then charge again.

[@SolarSurge]

Hi Brian. Thanks for writing in. Yes, we have confirmed that Tesla has updated their firmware. In a grid-down situation, they allow solar to stay powered on and keep the battery in the 95-100% range.

[@burritosburritos]

@@SolarSurge Interesting. So with a firmware update Tesla now can do what Enphase purportedly spent years to develop as to have simultaneous solar+battery use? Tesla is good. I'm still going through with my ensemble install regardless. The fact that there's a 6 mo wait for PW2's is also a factor.

[@SolarSurge]

@@burritosburritos The Enphase system still has an advantage for grid-down operation. The Tesla battery has to shut the solar down completely when the battery reaches 100%. The Enphase battery allows solar to stay on all the time be precisely balancing solar production to the house demand. Tesla still cannot do this.

[@Donkey550]

Great presentation.

[@williampeck9717]

I am not sure if you read Enphase white paper about power curtailment configuration. Many Enphase profiles create very neat integration between IQ inverters and PowerWalls by reacting to frequency shift in off grid mode. The 20% price difference does not sound right. Tesla PowerWalls went up in price in the last 6 months from 6.5K to 7.5K and Enphase battery are listed at 11K. Not so sure which prices were used to produce mentioned 20%.

[@SolarSurge]

Good point. Based on your numbers, the equipment price difference is > 30%. However, the labor cost is level so the overall cost to a system owner is only 20% higher.

[@williampeck9717]

Disagree. If you take into consideration that Enphase ATS is 2.5K and Tesla Gateway is 1.5K the price difference is more than 50% in parts for a system with one battery. Install costs for battery system are substantially less than batteries+ATS so the difference in price of batteries is the main component.

[@dominicanyor6590]

Thanks for the video. I was recently given a quote on solar panels and and batteries. The 400W hanwha q a 17.2 kw system and 2*10kwh enphase batteries. Is this better than a Tesla system?

[@SolarSurge]

It depends on what you're trying to power. Tesla batteries offer much more power per battery, so I think Tesla is a better choice if you're trying to backup heavy loads like central A/C.

[@dominicanyor6590]

@@SolarSurge I’m in Florida. I’ll be using for energy saver and when the power is out during or after a storm. You’re are correct I would like to have the AC running as well. I have two units!

[@SolarSurge]

@@dominicanyor6590 Sure we can help with that if you need. Please reach out if you need a comparison quote using Tesla batteries. [e-mail]

[@shenoyglobal]

nice comparison

[@navithefairy]

So the Enphase is 20% more expensive for 30% less capacity. Also, nothing about the app(s) and for example stormwatch?

[@nynoah]

Yea but it won’t start on fire as easy. Iron based batteries are vastly safer.

[@navithefairy]

@@nynoah Why spread this FUD? Powerwall's are not known to catch fire.

[@kylequest]

"And our intelligent Storm Guard™ feature automatically tracks weather systems and will prioritize power backup if a storm is detected." from the Enphase website

[@brentveitch9644]

Yeah, the capacity/cost really all comes down to cost, as either system can be increased in size. Likely if your "need" was 16 kWh of backup (I cherry picked that number) you would require 2x power walls, but enphase is sizable in 3 kWh "chunks". We've had customers pick Enphase because of battery chemistry, but I really admire Tesla for being such a leader in almost any field they touch! I wish all brands had more open interfaces (for example, allow battery wall to scale-down production on any brand inverters, etc.

[@lubui1721sapper]

Does the powerwall shut down panels during blackout? A seller is telling me that it does not.

[@SolarSurge]

The Powerwall shuts down panels if there is a blackout and the battery reaches 100% full charge. If the house can't take it and the battery can't take any more charge, then the solar must be turned off completely for at least 5 minutes.

[@lubui1721sapper]

@@SolarSurge Thanks. I’m getting quotes now for solar and battery, but Tesla is the only one that isn’t over $25k after FTC. Should I go with standard technology like Tesla or pay for better technology like Enphase?

[@SolarSurge]

@@lubui1721sapper It depends on your requirements. There are tons of options out there but no one-size-fits-all. Let's book a virtual call and I would be happy to discuss options with you: calendly.com/solarsurge/solar-consultation

[@anthonygeraci9580]

Love the video, if I was off grid more and wanted to live off the grid on purpose the emphase is def better. But for the purpose of just back up for emergency I like Tesla. Excited for the growth and innovation of the solar field in the next few years!

[@SolarSurge]

Totally agree! It's exciting to see how solar + storage is going mainstream now. It was very much a fridge interest when I got started in solar back in 2012.

[@Fredjikrang]

You mentioned that the powerwall is stackable. Is that the same for Enphase?

[@SolarSurge]

Yes, both are stackable.

[@tedrees5989]

My question is how do they compare for running at night when the grid is active. Clearly the Enphase is superior for a dead grid during the day. But I want to charge the battery during the day with solar/grid, and discharge at night with battery/grid. This is because of time-of-use, but also to make full use of the system and reducing grid CO2 emissions here in California where the emission factor is usually low mid day due to lots of grid solar supply.

[@SolarSurge]

I would say Tesla performs better for daily cycle during evening hours. Especially since Tesla upgraded their specs and can now support up to 7,600W continuous load per battery.

[@tedrees5989]

@@SolarSurge thank you!

[@tedrees5989]

@@SolarSurge High power certainly is important during peak time! But if you have solar PV, you really don't get much money back if any at all. So in that case, all you need is to discharge your battery overnight. 10KWH / 10 hours only needs 1 KW. It really doesn't matter much if the discharge is to home or the grid, as long as CO2 emissions are being reduced somewhere Then we wonder what grid power is being turned off when home solar goes to the grid. During the day, does the excess turn off coal, gas, or other renewable energy? I suspect what ever is most expensive than can be curtailed. With a lot of grid solar, at night at least there is no grid solar to curtail.

[@edgarv3984]

Thank you for this video it was very informative I’m still hoping the price of solar goes down for now I have to wait.

[@jamesthiel5922]

Have no idea why people continue to behave this way. just get solar and start saving sooner rather than later! You are not saving yourself any more money by waiting, and may in fact be costing yourself more money.

[@rabalos21]

Do you take one on one appointments? I’m trying to set up a complete off grid system for my parents retirement home.

[@SolarSurge]

Hi Robby. Sure, we are happy to help. Please email [e-mail]

[@brucefischer1834]

Great commentary on the products. You might want to update your knowledge on the Tesla products. Solar and batteries work in conjunction to power the home. Innovative controls via software app let you configure backup or self powered. Adjust percentages for backup reserve. I was super happy I had these services installed prior to the winter storms that impacted the area. As your know there are many factors that go into deciding to deploy

[@SolarSurge]

Thanks for the info! I will clarify this issue on the future video.

[@aadvandenberg1507]

great video

[@CC-mj3zq]

Good presentation here thanks!

[@H2Dwoat]

Hi, do you think the enphase extra cost is due to the micro inverter setup? Do you think the battery capacity of the enphase with the power available from the microinverter setup brings it in line with the extra capacity of the Tesla system? Finally during charging periods does the draw availability of the enphase system include a combined availability from both battery and microinverter or just the battery alone?

[@SolarSurge]

Yes. No. Yes.

[@H2Dwoat]

@@SolarSurge 🤓 succinct 👍

[@kevinbuck6871]

Nice video, but you information is not quite right about Tesla Powerall 2. We have 2 X PW2's on a 29 panel system. They do everything the Enphase does and more. If you put it in 'Advanced mode via the app', it will take solar as it is being produced and store it or release power to the house simultaneously as it needed. You can also charge for the them using cheap overnight grid electricity. Good to see Enphase doing something, but PW2 is unbeatable fo functionality and price!

[@SolarSurge]

Thanks for the info! I have received similar feedback from other Tesla owners. Glad to know that it can support direct solar power to loads when running off-grid.

[@jeremyharris2998]

@@SolarSurge Then shouldn't you add more X-factor points to Tesla in this and subsequent videos which you still only score the Tesla at 20 points

[@osky087]

which would you choose between the enphase iq10 and resu prime 16? using iq8 micro inverters, trying not to use the utility as much as possible.

[@SolarSurge]

The LG battery is not directly compatible with Enphase micro-inverters so I would go with all Enphase brand equipment.

[@melios1967]

Can we install the tesla without solar?

[@SolarSurge]

Yes you can use the battery stand-alone without solar.

[@melios1967]

@@SolarSurge but after the battery drains that's it if the grid is still down?

[@johngoncalves]

Excellent video, thank you.

[@tomcampbell3007]

How many can you stack?

[@SolarSurge]

Tesla can stack up to 7. I believe Enphase is max 3 batteries right now.

[@Bass007]

Great video I just subscribed

[@crashoverride93637]

What is a septic pump ...I have lived in rural areas and never heard of one

[@tysonb1486]

There is an ejector pump inside of your septic tank that ejects the waste water into your septic field.

[@SolarSurge]

A septic pump is used to pump waste water uphill if you are unable to do a gravity-fed system.

[@crashoverride93637]

@@SolarSurge ah we live in the flatlands so gravity fed is the only type out here

[@duanelawrence4311]

Is the Ensamble battery stackable?

[@rogeliomontes5211]

Yes

[@duanelawrence4311]

@@rogeliomontes5211 I watched the video twice and still did not find out if it could be stacked

[@rogeliomontes5211]

@@duanelawrence4311 I install these and have stacked them plenty of times. I have images of installs if you want to see them.

[@behrensf84]

Can I get a large commercial battery pack for residential use?

[@SolarSurge]

Generally, no. If you need more capacity, you can stack multiple battery backs together.

[@shroud1390]

Great vid and comparison. How does solar run the house directly? Isnt the battery and or the grid needed because solar fluctuates? One cloud bank comes over and all the electronics reboot

[@SolarSurge]

That's a good point. The micro-inverters would have to be able to carry the house load or else lights out. I think this feature will be most utilized in third-world countries like in Africa where the power grid goes out daily and most people can't afford a battery. However, a few panels with micro-inverters could keep most home and small businesses powered up during the day.

[@shroud1390]

@@SolarSurge good point about other countries

[@GoatDirt]

8:23 may need a revision. During outages, I consistently see the solar and powerwalls running in parallel and as the sun goes cloudy, the batteries flex up to provide more power or take extra solar not being utilized by the home (fills in the gaps). The Tesla battery charges off of the excess solar regardless of charge state and prioritizes solar while keeping the battery as full as possible. The solar is treated as primary and battery secondary. I have two pw's so maybe this differs from a single pw with tied solar? Powerwalls just got us through Texas deep freeze flawlessly. I am sure enphase will be awesome as well.

[@SolarSurge]

Thanks for clarifying this. I received several similar comments from other Tesla owners. I will update on the future video.

[@GoatDirt]

@@SolarSurge Sure thing! Your videos are FANTASTIC and I really appreciate that you are putting in your honest opinions and clearly massive expertise as a licensed electrician. Thanks for making this info accessible to those of us who are not.

[@sitechca70]

That's inaccurate. All grid-tied solar PV inverters operate in current mode (that's how MPPT works), i.e. they generate as much power as they can from the panels and assume the load can take it. When the grid goes down, the AC battery's inverter forms the grid, "tricking" the solar inverter to continue operating while the Gateway cuts off the house from the grid, preventing backfeeding. If the house doesn't take all that power, then the battery has to (by using it to charge, < 5kW per battery). If the battery's SOC is nearly full, the battery inverter will shmoo the AC frequency and UL1741-compliant PV inverters will know to reduce power. Older PV inverters will simply turn off. The house then runs on battery only until the battery SOC is lowered enough to trigger a return to production from the PV inverter(s). Bottomline, solar+battery sure beats a gas generator and no queueing for gas.

[@SolarSurge]

@@sitechca70 Thanks for the info here. What you described is exactly how an AC-coupled battery backup should work. My concern is that when the AC frequency shift happens, the micro's only disconnect for 5 minutes before trying to re-connect to the battery "grid." Repeating that cycle every five minutes until utility power is restored could create hundreds of unnecessary micro cycles on the battery.

[@sitechca70]

@@SolarSurge That's ok, lithium batteries can withstand that since that is what happens all the time in EV's with regenerative braking. What they don't like is deep discharge cycles (more pronounced with Tesla's Li-ion vs Enphase's LFP) which is why Tesla's warranty is predicated upon the battery being able to phone home with usage/monitoring (and not off-grid).

[@markbrowning9363]

What's the best battery for backing up a 3-phase home with 3-phase well pump & gshp?

[@zaydpeer]

Freedom Won 80/64. It’s 2.5 times the cost of the power wall but 6 times the storage capacity.

[@SolarSurge]

In the past, I have used Schneider Conext XW+ for this type of application. However, you need 3 separate inverters- one for each phase.

[@gideonindrata1550]

does the ats shuts the power down before switching to Tesla powerwall? or does it switch seamlessly like enphase? and is there any probability that there is a grid instability that turns on and off the grid several times in 1 time?

[@SolarSurge]

Yes, the Tesla Power Gateway (ATS) will automatically disconnect grid and activate backup power. The switch over happen in a fraction of a second.

[@Rocky1765]

But they never say the price, Why is that?

[@SolarSurge]

Installed prices are around $12-15k for each of these options. Please reach out for a specific quote.

[@MaxGoddur]

I live on the west coast here in the US and wondering can you buy just the battery packs and add the solar later choosing to charge the packs via PG&E. The main purpose would be to have the system set up as a UPS for now. What would something like that cost for 2 packs?

[@sitechca70]

Yes, the Tesla PowerWall is an AC battery, so it can be installed without Solar PV. It will work better than just a UPS, as it will give you TOU offset if your utilities have that. 2 PowerWalls will be $19K ($7.5K each + $1K Gateway + $3K install) from Tesla's website. I have no relationship with them.

[@MaxGoddur]

@@sitechca70 never had I received an answer so encompassing thank you. Wondering are you an installer company? How would I get the ball rolling for an install with that price tag?

[@sitechca70]

@@MaxGoddur Since this is Solar Surge's video, please try his company first for recommendations. If they don't serve your area, then try Tesla.com directly.

[@boathousedave2383]

Regarding the Enphase battery and Enphase microinverter panels working grid down battery backup mode simultaneously Can the IQ7+ microinverters do what you are saying in the video or just the new IQ8 microinverters?

[@SolarSurge]

Only the Enphase IQ8 allows precise control of individual solar panels.

[@ctclimberguy34]

Question.. I don't know alot about the PW. One is rated for 7kw peak & 5kw continous. Does that increase with 2 or more PW's or is it power split with wiring etc.. I have a well pump (240v 20amp) dryer and some window ac units.Just curious.

[@nobodyhome2318]

7KW peak/powerwall2 and 5Kw continuous/powerwall2. So 2 powerwall2= 14KWP/10KWC. 3=21/15. Max charge rate 5Kw/PW2

[@SolarSurge]

Yes, each Powerwall you add increases both the max power and the capacity. So, 2 Powerwalls would give you 10kW continuous power, 27.0 kWh storage capacity.

[@bentleyjarrard885]

Wanted to respond to your question with some info that is not widely discussed but is important to understand. Most, if not all inverters sold in the US that are designed for single phase 120/240V (split phase) operation actually have 2 separate 120V inverters that are sychronized with each other but are OUT OF PHASE by 180 degrees. This is very important to keep in mind because the 5000 Watt rating ONLY applies if the load is balanced between BOTH inverters. For example, an air conditioning condenser or well pump that pulls 3500 watts at 240V would run just fine. However, if a 120V toaster and a microwave (or window AC) that each only pull 1750 watts (3500 total) were plugged into the same phase that would overload the inverter and it would probably shut down. On the other hand, if one of those appliances was plugged into a different outlet that was serviced by the other phase, then both appliances would operate with no problem. Hope that made sense. This type of electrical architecture is also used in some of the new inverter type gasoline generators.

[@SolarSurge]

@@bentleyjarrard885 That is such a good point and not widely understood. It is VERY important to keep large 120V in balance between the phases. Microwaves, toaster overs, air compressors, 120V EV chargers, circular saws all use 120V and have HUGS power draws. You want to be careful to make sure these loads are balanced or only use one item at a time.