Tesla Range in Canadian Winter

I used 37% total including 2 hours parked with Sentry mode activated on this 96km(60mi) drive in a 2022 Tesla Model Y AWD LR at -29°C.
*Update*
More data from the same route recently, and another longer trip at -38c, range loss is now calculated off the 9c trip as the base case:
Temp Distance Consumption Eqv. Range Range Loss
+9°C 96km 153Wh/km 490km n/a
+4°C 96km 156Wh/km 481km 2%
-5°C 96km 173Wh/km 434km 12%
-17°C 96km 217Wh/km 346km 29%
-29°C 96km 268Wh/km 280km 43%
-38°C 154km 286Wh/km 260km 47%

[@alexkalish8288]

The issue is when your battery runs out after a couple hours, if you are on the road, you are going to freeze to death fast.

[@TeslaCampingCanada]

That doesn't make any sense. Why would I let my battery go to 0%? Do you let your fuel tank go to empty?

[@michaelb.8953]

@@TeslaCampingCanada For me to run my cabin heater on my gas car doesn't reduce my driving range. For my gas car to sit parked in a parking lot for almost two hours doesn't drain the equivalent of 1/4 gallon of perfectly good gas out of my gas tank. My gas tank will get me 420 miles if it's 90 degrees F outside or if it's 9 degree F. Your electric car is still using fossil fuel sources. If I pay money to charge my car and it sits for a day or two I'm losing charge and I had to pay money for those ions to just vanish in thin air.

[@sitka49]

@@michaelb.8953 Good question, how are they environmental good when they lose energy just sitting? And now that's a 20% loss of energy that could of been used somewhere else. Add that by the 1000's or 10's thousands,and than millions? ( and you cant change physics) We are certainly are going have to build more wind farms,and solar fields. Lol.

[@zoots15]

Right. How much more drain if you are stuck for an extra hour in traffic @ -29

[@bertblue9683]

He wasn't speculating.

[@unclej3910]

Try parking your Tesla outside 24/7 at -20 and charge it outdoors. Then do a test. My former Chevrolet Bolt EUV had a range of about 240-250 miles in the warm summer months, in the winter, 180 miles. I traded the Bolt for a Subaru Forester. I’m now a happy camper.

[@TeslaCampingCanada]

It's +6c here now.. If it gets cold again, I'll make a video of that too.

[@scottfairbairn6305]

I'm not sure what the big news is with this finding, as far as I know, it's been common knowledge that cold temperatures cut the battery life significantly. For the most part, it means you need to put extra thought into you charging and trip plans. And, lets be honest here, an EV is not for everyone...yet. I used to live in the north in canada, and temperatures of -35 , and even -45 were not uncommon. My ICE car was useless unless it was plugged into a battery and engine warmer at all times. Most small businesses and such had outside outlets for people to plug in their cars. So it's not just EV's that hurt in the cold.

[@TeslaCampingCanada]

@scottfairbairn6305 Not news at all, I'm honestly surprised this video got any views at all lol. And good points regarding winter, common sense/planning, and most things not working well in the extreme cold.

[@wzDH106]

I'm not sure what the issue is here, we parked ours in Minnesota, unplugged, for 3 days in temperatures of -25F (-31C), but in total the vehicle sat at the airport for a better part of the week. Didn't have any issues, and more importantly, the vehicle started without fuss. Was there range loss? Absolutely, but still got us home. If one doesn't have home charging then EVs are probably more of a fuss, otherwise, they're the most convenient appliance to live with. For reference, our gas cars took a 20% - 25% hit in fuel economy below 10F (-12C) with city/errand driving, and would show a struggle to start below -10F ( -23C). Guess there's no real winner.

[@TeslaCampingCanada]

@@wzDH106 Exactly, nothing works great in extreme cold, but at least your EV will start after being parked outside for a few days in that weather.

[@grandyhynes1636]

Not everyone has a heated garage . Could you do the same test with the car parked outside overnight???

[@TeslaCampingCanada]

My garage isn't heated either. Ya I will probably have to wait until next winter for weather that cold again though. Lots of other videos on KZbin showing that though I'm sure.

[@AnthonyJMendoza-f7i]

40% less at about -29 degrees C. That is about what I have heard other people get. Thank you for the data.

[@Greytusks]

This info would be even more useful if compared to the usual ICE additional fuel consumption at that weather and trip type?

[@AnthonyJMendoza-f7i]

@@Greytusks Gasoline cars normally lose about 10% in milage. This is one of the reasons EVs really need about 1000 km of range. 60% of 1000 km is 600 km which is plenty of range. 60% of 500 km is not enough. The necessary range increase is in the labs. It will just take a few more years to work out the manufacturing bugs.

[@bradarmstrong3952]

46% less, and he is comparing to 4 degrees C, not 20 degrees C ...

[@wzDH106]

​@@bradarmstrong3952 4C isn't cold for a vehicle with a heat pump with preconditioning. Hell, we don't precondition and still see over EPA with both EVs in Pacific Northwest winters, one with a heat pump, and one without. He also showed an estimated 300 miles of range at 4C. I'd imagine the driving style is fairly tame as most hardly see over 250 miles real world Tesla miles in the summer. Though I'd imagine those individuals are frequently doing 80+ MPH on the highway.

[@SigFigNewton]

@@AnthonyJMendoza-f7ifor most people 100km is plenty of range. I’m living, not road tripping

[@SVJoana]

You had a very good start with your car in the garage. For those people who park their car outside, they will undoubtedly suffer more range degradation.

[@TeslaCampingCanada]

Yes, you could lose a few more percent to warm things up first.

[@KenMorter]

EV'S are meant for wealthy people. Most have garages. The lower and many middle income classes will be forced onto public transit or Uber. I guess those people could do a video about how soon they get frostbite at a bus stop.

[@KenMorter]

@@oddjobsandrandomprojects I drive a 2014 Nissan Sentra with a six speed manual. Although it averages about 5.6 liters/100 it will achieve 4.8 (or better) liters/100 if driven with fuel economy in mind. That is the equivalent of 57 mpg! The car cost me less than 20,000 new in 2014. New ones now start at about 25000. Much more cost effective than an expensive EV and probably a better car.

[@darlenehancock1666]

@@TeslaCampingCanada You should have known that about Canadian Winters before you bought the car !!! not smart !!! who is bragging now ??? Waldo Guilbeault AND Primeministurd Just as True dick Also think Canada is Florida or Arizona or California AND ARE OK with CANADIANS GOING 100 % Green IDIOTS EVs Do not work in cold Canada Too Bad You Wasted Money ON GREEN SHI+ Good Luck !!!

[@paulcamire]

⁠@@KenMorterhaha, we’re middle class, 2 EVs parked outside and i drive for Uber full time!

[@thomasjacques5286]

Finally a lucid and highly informative video on cold weather driving which BTW mirrors my experience after owning 2 Teslas since 2020.

[@TeslaCampingCanada]

Thanks!

[@tws1234]

The majority of battery degradation in such extreme cold situations is due to heating the cabin since the battery is warmed up and thus behaving close to normal. Did you have the cabin set at 78F, 75F, 70F or 69F degrees during your preconditioning and the drive itself? It makes all the difference when evaluating battery performance and how much is bleeding off for interior cabin heat vs. vehicle performance. Someday we'll have better metrics for this kind of test...

[@st-ex8506]

@@tws1234 There are two major energy losses in very cold weather: 1. The energy needed to heat up the cabin which, as you rightly said, depends on how cosy a cabin temperature you set. I recommend using seat heating as much as possible to stay comfortable, before turning up cabin heat. 2. Heating up the battery. The correct procedure is, as you said again, to pre-heat the battery while the car is still hooked up. But then, the battery must be maintained at its optimum temperature. In hot temperatures, it must be cooled. In cool temperature, it heat up itself, through ohmic losses. In very frigid weather, an increasing fraction of its charge must be used to maintain the battery at its optimal functioning temperature EVEN if it was pre-heated. This drain depends directly on outside temperature, and can't be reduced. At -30°C, it is quite significant.

[@carlsmith5545]

@@st-ex8506 wow! You go through alot to operate an EV in the cold. Shit im glad that all i have to do is....start up.

[@marioeduardoferreiraruiz]

@@carlsmith5545 Yeah, me too…this seems endless and incredibly tedious. For me, it would get old quite quick. My ‘iPhone’ just started getting on my nerves-just last year as its charge started to ‘drain’ much quicker than usual…for some reason, and I have no idea why. Now I have to carry the damn charger everywhere I go and I have to babysit this stupid iPhone like I gave ‘birth’ to it. I’m glad I don’t have to do that with my ‘gas’ car.🙄

[@ItsGoodToBeHater]

Bring more statistic with EV parked outside. Then charge and drive. I would love to see that numbers....

[@ronnied1137]

..... yes, and the numbers of $$$ it takes to charge it outside & all night.

[@marksakowski9272]

Try this in 5 years time, I will be hearing your cries in Australia!

[@wiplashsmile]

@@oddjobsandrandomprojectsWait, you consider that good performance?

[@wiplashsmile]

@@oddjobsandrandomprojectsI'm saying 47% range decrease in range between summer and winter isn't what I'd consider good performance. My full gas vehicles might get 2 mpg less in the winter when "preheating" before a trip. My hybrid does suffer in winter with about a 4-5 mpg decrease in mpg. It really suffers in summer when running the AC at about 10 mpg decrease which would equate to about 20% decrease in range.

[@wiplashsmile]

@@oddjobsandrandomprojects An additional personal concern with EV is my daily mileage to work at 47 miles one way. For me hybrid is seems the better choice at least until battery technology improves. I'm sure it will, I just prefer the onboard charging capabilities of hybrid. Oh and as battery tech improves that will only make hybrids even better.

[@brianmiller9382]

The current market for EVs is skewed towards higher income drivers for a variety of reasons. Government attempts to force the general public to use EVs in a decade or so will fail for multiple reasons, one of which is that many lower income drivers live in apartment complexes rather than homes with heated garages and easy access home charging, and EVs with cold batteries perform even worse than this video shows. People will absolutely refuse to buy EVs under such circumstances, preferring to purchase used older model ICE vehicles despite all government attempts to force them to go to EVs, which will remain a niche market for high income drivers. EVs still have way too many issues, and poor performance and lousy range in cold weather is just one of those. issues.

[@solentbum]

You are ignoring the advances made in EV engineering in the past 10 years, and the advances in the pipeline. Without Government pressure on Motor Manufacturers over many years they would not have fitted any of the progressive ideas in cars over the past 50+ years. Have you noticed the number of lower priced EVs coming onto the market in the last couple of years as the government deadline comes nearer worldwide.

[@brianmiller9382]

@@solentbum EVs have almost saturated the market they possibly can attain. They cannot lower prices enough to appeal to people in mid America who have cold weather and drive outside the city. Sales will start falling soon, and throwing more taxpayer money at "incentives" isn't going to happen. GM and Ford are beginning to see the light, focusing their EV efforts at "luxury" models and abandoning the foolish idea they can expand the market to lower income drivers. The resistance to bureaucratic overreach and gross wasting of taxpayer money is just starting in middle America. The coastal elites can buy whatever they want, but not on the taxpayers' dime.

[@TeslaCampingCanada]

New technology is always more expensive, and decreases as manufacturering and supply chains mature. So of course the market was skewed towards higher income drivers initially, but that is changing rapidly, check the current price of a Model Y in the USA.

[@chriscochrane6319]

I drove from Nelson Bc to Vancouver 650 km in the latest cold snap Temp minus 21 to start minus 33 over the passes in my Tesla 3. I usually get 155 watts/km average but watching the consumption steady state below minus 30 at 90km/hr we were using 297watts/km . As we approached Vancouver the temp rose steadily until at minus 10 we were back to 165 watts/km. I should add due to range anxiety we ran cabin temp at 17 degrees c and even shut off cabin heat prior to getting to the Osoyoos supercharger down to 3 % . I plan to increase roof insulation as well as battery and coolant lines .

[@TeslaCampingCanada]

RWD or AWD, and does yours have the heat pump?

[@uf1978]

One day you will realize you been dupped lol. Gas today, gas tomorrow and stress free trips!

[@TeslaCampingCanada]

Sorry to disappoint, but no stress here. There's this cool thing called the electricity grid nowadays.

[@AW-om8we]

Small note: you can't warm up the battery in five minutes. In that short timespan it only warms the cabin.

[@TeslaCampingCanada]

Well it warmed it a little bit, and then driving will continue warming it. I had almost full regen right from the start, so that's warm enough for me, anymore than that and I feel I'm just wasting electricity. Is it doing any harm by not fully warming it?

[@beltrams]

​@TeslaCampingCanada , driving with a cold battery doesn't hurt it. If the car needs to limit power, it will. Ditto regen. I think it's a waste to get the battery all warm, especially for a short trip, if I don't need a warm battery to facilitate charging or Supercharging any time soon.

[@ralanham76]

Also He was inside the garage when started

[@leudast1215]

It affects recharging your battery you numb skull :) that's why there's been a bunch of outrage at charging stations in sub zero temperatures. @@beltrams

[@PiefacePete46]

​​@@beltrams: I don't have a Tesla, and, happily for me I won't ever see temperatures that low. I am guessing that the battery management system will heat the battery while you drive, when needed. If that's the case, heating the battery and interior before you disconnect the charger is effectively adding range?

[@hughj776]

Really appreciated this information. Thanks. Luckily we don't see -29C very often. But your tips are worth following even if it isn't that cold.

[@TeslaCampingCanada]

Glad it was helpful! It's basically summer here now, so much for worrying about range :p

[@techtechuw597]

Electric car manufacturers should perhaps consider making (gas or natural gas powered) hybrid salon/battery heaters for cold climates? Losing near 40% of the battery to extra heating needs is way too much.

[@tadghsmith1457]

Full EV’s aren’t practical for cold, sparsely populated countries like Canada and probably never will be without a breakthrough in battery technology. Hybrids could work though.

[@StarFyreXXX]

@@tadghsmith1457 works fine for people in cities/suburbs as drive to work or shopping isnt a big deal.

[@tadghsmith1457]

@@StarFyreXXX Assuming the owners are not hi-rise dwellers and can charge at home that might be true for 99% of journeys. But what do you do when you want to take the kids upstate to visit granny, and there are no chargers on your route? I guess you could rent an ICE vehicle for those occasions… Thing is though most people in the market for a new car are going to want to buy a car they can use for 100% of journeys not just 99%. The all electric car is still not a main car for most people. It’s a second car for doing short trips around town. For that, it may have a niche.

[@StarFyreXXX]

@@tadghsmith1457 depends where you live. where i am lots of ppl have just a tesla or another electric car as their main car BUT here every mall, some schools, many larger offices, etc have charging ports. A few gas stations with restaurants as well. Along the 401 there's also places to charge. But thats cause its around toronto. No idea what its like around middle canada and the states, outside of like NY to boston etc i hear its not that great. (or outside cali).

[@KristofV1981]

@@tadghsmith1457 go take a look in Norway then.

[@teslapower18]

Really interesting. Driving in similar conditions -30C around 200km trip, my 7y old Model S P85D makes it by 250Wh/km in average. But in summer with same 105km/h the consumption varies between 210-220Wh/km. These Model Ys seem to be way more efficient in summer, but in winter the difference seems to be almost other way roind. Geetings from Finland))

[@st-ex8506]

Excellent point! I guess it might be those cars are equipped with LFP batteries, which are said to be more sensitive to cold?!

[@TeslaCampingCanada]

His car and my car both have NMC batteries. The RWD Y uses LFP.

[@TeslaCampingCanada]

@teslapower18 Interesting, I usually get about 160 - 165Wh/km highway in the summer, that is quite the difference. I don't know what would be the reasons for that much difference and the opposite in the winter. Thanks for watching though!

[@st-ex8506]

@@TeslaCampingCanada Thanks! then, it takes car of that possible explanation of the difference.

[@adamhero459]

It’s not that they are more efficient in summer. The issue is that everything uses the battery that then reduces the range. So you want to not freeze in the car? Then your range goes down.

[@thomasruwart1722]

One thing that would be very helpful is a graph that shows empirical energy loss over a range of temperatures from, say 38°C (100°F) down to -29°C (-20°F). Other factors such as weight, relative wind speed (i.e. are you driving into a 20MPH headwind or have a tail wind or ???), and hills (in bicycle riding it is always uphill and against the wind). It would be interesting to understand how much each of these factors affect each data point so that perhaps the data can be normalised for a more accurate curve. Alternatively, you could ignore all that and just charge early and often😊 Or stay home wrapped up in a blanket binge-watching KZbin Channels like this one😊 Safe travels every one!

[@TeslaCampingCanada]

The nerd in me would like all that data, but I am also lazy, and you're right, you don't need any of that to just drive the car. :)

[@ralanham76]

If you want some nerding out watch a Bjorn Nyland EV video he goes into lots of details and has a spreadsheet with almost every EV.

[@thomasruwart1722]

@@ralanham76 - I'm on it! Thanks for the suggestion!

[@CreRay]

@@ralanham76 I'd recommend checking out the channel Battery Life, he does similar test BUT checks the consumption against the kWh reported by the charger (which are calibrated by law in Germany). Bjørn relies on the reported consumption by the car which I think is not reliable when comparing different cars, the data from Battery Life proves this point.

[@ralanham76]

@@CreRay thanks

[@yorkschumann5126]

Similar loss here in Finland two weeks ago when it was -25. I got avg consumption of 280 wh/km for 45 km drive. Charging outside (no warm garage) is also quite bad. The efficiency is 60% when it was -30 at night. The car was heating up the battery most of the time.

[@SKYLIMI]

What about the people living in the apartment?

[@karvanenpalli8508]

​@@SKYLIMIthey drive diesel

[@st-ex8506]

@@karvanenpalli8508 Diesel fuel congeal at between -10 and -15°C. So, if a diesel car sits outside in -25 or -30°C temperature, without having a pre-heater system hooked up to a plus, it just won't start at all in the morning! Even with a gasoline car, starting it will be a 50:50 roll of dice depending on how new a battery you have. The EV will start, no problem... it will only suffer reduced range. So: 1-nil for EVs!

[@brianthompson4079]

2:38 ​@@st-ex8506

[@CreRay]

@@st-ex8506 Nah it's no problem to drive a diesel at least in temperatures down to -35C, as long as you have the "correct" diesel for the applicable season. Even in the very north of Sweden diesel vehicles are being used without any issues. Ofcourse, should you take a vehicle with continental winter diesel, yeah that will not start in those temperatures.

[@stableianF1oracle]

Most EVs catch fire now so that saves on pre heating them lol 😂

[@hammerfist8763]

We have lots of EV's in our parking garage at work and haven't seen one catch fire yet.

[@stableianF1oracle]

@@hammerfist8763 Only takes one and you’ll have no EVs no garage and hopefully a very understanding insurance company.

[@hammerfist8763]

@@stableianF1oracle ICE vehicles are full of flammable liquid and catch fire far more often than EV's as a result, but I've never had such an issue with either one. Do you ever think for yourself or just mindlessly repeat bs?

[@TeslaCampingCanada]

The statistics show EVs are about 1/10 as likely to catch fire as a ICE vehicle. Actually, hybrids are the most likely. Google is your friend.

[@stableianF1oracle]

@@TeslaCampingCanada Great use of statistics just like a politician but you forgot to mention that worldwide there are 20,000 IC cars to every EV on the road. So if there were exactly the same number of EVs as ICs you would have 2000 EV fires to every IC fire. Sorry to destroy your fake argument.

[@donthompson7889]

I have no problem with people who want an electric car, and can afford the purchase price without assistance from other people (tax rebates), buying them. I draw the line at a government mandate that forces an expensive and inferior product on me. In Canada, a change in government in the next federal election will solve that issue.

[@TeslaCampingCanada]

Doesn't matter what the Canadian government does though. We're just along for the ride with what the rest of the world does.

[@johnn17golf]

CPC would just lose us 5-10 years against the rest of the world, as happened in Ontario. Then we will tufr P and start again but even further behind.

[@donthompson7889]

@@johnn17golf If EVs were really a beneficial thing, no government mandates would be necessary. There are many major issues that need to be addressed. Refusal to even acknowledge them only makes things worse. 2035 will come and go without EVs being the only choice for new vehicles in Canada. By 2035, nobody will admit to ever voting for the Trudeau Liberals and ICE vehicles will still rule the roads (maybe powered by hydrogen.) You won't be able to give Teslas away. If the race is to nowhere, it is a race worth losing.

[@PaulRubino]

Can you imagine if an ICE experienced a 43% range loss just because it's cold? People would be outraged. These EVs are not read for prime time.

[@wzDH106]

A 20% to 25% drop on fuel economy was normal living in Minnesota. Wasn't uncommon to run errands without ever achieving normal operating temperatures, fuel economy was crap.

[@rayoflight62]

The problem with ICE, they waste two thirds of the energy contained in the gasoline. One third of the energy goes to the wheels; one third to the radiator; one third thru the exhaust. In very low ambient temperature, the ICE just radiate some less heat, therefore the low temperature don't change the range of the car...

[@TeslaCampingCanada]

Another way to think about it: Can you imagine if you couldn't refuel your gas car at home while you sleep, people would be outraged. It's just a different experience, trade some winter range loss for the ability to charge overnight, at home, a hotel, or a campground. Or just while you're eating at a restaurant. You don't have to stand around waiting for it to charge, you plug it in and go do something else. The flexibility of an EV to refuel is one of my favorite things about it. Not to mention the fuel and maintenance savings.

[@cazu2479]

Still not buying an EV anytime soon especially not a Tesla. Not until they improve the build quality and customer service

[@omarb155]

How much electricity does the car burn just keeping the cabin warm when it placed in park. How much range loss is due to keeping the cabin warm.

[@TeslaCampingCanada]

Well, on my recent camping trip, it used 1.2%/hr to keep the cabin warm through the night, but it wasn't very cold.. I think it's about 2%/hr in colder weather (-30c) from other videos I've seen.

[@ronnied1137]

That figure would be $$$$$$$$$$, Big Bucks.

[@TeslaCampingCanada]

@@ronnied1137 Big bucks?? A full charge costs me CAD$12 at home. The cost of heating the cabin is negligible.

[@isaachunt5799]

same with our leaf. we loose 50% range when that cold. we bought a cheap ice car for long winter journeys

[@mattandrufuswilson6586]

Please send this video to every single inept Chicago driver!!!

[@imtheonevanhalen1557]

The important thing is to SLOW DOWN. Makes a HUGE difference no matter what kind of engine/motor you have.

[@robsin2810]

Who in there right mind, would buy an EV.🤯

[@nobodynemoq]

maybe someone who does experience -29 degrees usually for 1-2 days a year?

[@fnbrowning-Actual]

@@SimulationAdmin And all YOU did was to be a grammar troll who added no value to the discussion either.

[@lancem4473]

When Air Force 1 and Marine Corps 1 go all electric then so will I

[@johnreese3762]

Great video with great info! Thanks from sunny California!!!

[@TeslaCampingCanada]

Thanks for watching!

[@techow]

Great breakdown, thanks for the info

[@TeslaCampingCanada]

You're welcome

[@nobodynemoq]

great, comprehensive video! A test at -10 degrees would make this quite complete.

[@TeslaCampingCanada]

I did the same drive again at -17c and lost 28% if that helps.

[@nobodynemoq]

@@TeslaCampingCanada Thanks, that's really valuable info! You should add it to the description, too 😊 And 28% does not sound that bad, leaving you with ~300 km range in quite a freezing conditions. Have a nice day! ❤

[@TeslaCampingCanada]

Thanks, good idea, I'll add more new data to the description.

[@mikewardrop5962]

How do you calculate a 280 km full range: when you start with 100% charge, drive 96 km and are down to 44% battery? I'd say say you are pretty much screwed at 200 km. or sooner. Especially considering going to 0% is not really desirable at all.

[@TeslaCampingCanada]

I started at 81%. I used the trip's final driving energy consumption, 268Wh/km, as reported by the car to calculate the range based on the 75kWh usable battery. So 75 ÷ 0.268 = 279.9km. You're right, you would want to leave some buffer when it's that cold, so 200km is a realistic range to use before you'd want to charge again. (90% down to 20% for example).

[@brianhalberg131]

Just for fun I tried to geolocate part of your drive and found you were at Cranbrook Dr and Cranberry Ave in Calgary SE. How ridiculous are the street and road names in that area?!! Crantastic use of "Cran" by the Calgary City Planners. Weird.

[@TeslaCampingCanada]

Haha yes they've completely run out of ideas for names

[@ronkirk5099]

Preheating an EV battery and vehicle interior in cold weather is no different than plugging in the engine heater of an ICE vehicle so it will start.

[@TeslaCampingCanada]

Exactly

[@flyovercounty1427]

Thanks for the video. What was your cost for the electricity for that trip? My 14yr old Toyota V8 pickup would use 33ish litres of 87 in that weather at $1.34 (Red Deer avg) for a cost of $44-$45. It would use $30-$32 in warm summer weather. The increased air density alone could require 20% more power to maintain highway speed, plus increased rolling resistance from cold tires.

[@TeslaCampingCanada]

For most of the year it costs me about $12 for a full charge at home. So the 37% used for this trip would be about $4.50. It was -3c in the garage in this video though, so it uses some more electricity to warm the battery for charging but I'm not sure how much. Maybe add another dollar or so to that?

[@rosaluks644]

A much needed video, thanks!

[@docbrown6550]

Figure in the higher cost of the Insurance, how often the tires need changing, the cost of the car initially, the cost of replacing the battery, the cost of the charging station. These cars are catching on fire a lot also.

[@diamonddust4525]

The insurance was higher on our old ICE car (2007 Hyundai Tucson) compared to the Model 3 that we got, presumably because of the safety features. Tires need changing more often, true. Replacing the battery is an extremely rare event, and you most likely won't have to while you own the car. You'll mostly be charging at home, which is dirt cheap, and charging stations are still cheaper than gas. ICE cars catch on fire more often.

[@docbrown6550]

@@diamonddust4525 The insurance is much higher on EVs and you evidently haven't been keeping up with current events, on EVs catching on fire, not only are there more of them doing it, the cost of containing the burning ones is getting out of hand with the battery issues. My best friend has one and only had about seventy thousand miles on it and had to replace the battery, people in our neck of the woods have cars with over four hundred thousand miles on them, so yes the chances or greatly increased you will change these batteries multiple times.

[@Plumber60423]

Until the amount of ICE cars and electric cars are at 50/50 on the road these figures maybe higher.

[@docbrown6550]

@@Plumber60423 That won't happen for another six decades or more, probably more.

[@hammerfist8763]

Lots of misinfo and fake news. My Model S Insurance (comprehensive) is 75% lower than for a BMW M6 (comparable price and performance). 5 year total cost of ownership for a Model 3 is less than for a Toyota Camry. My Model S tires (same z rated Michelins as on a BMW M6) and brakes (same Brembo high performance brakes as on a Porsche 911) last a lot longer with the regenerative breaking. Tires went 50k miles before replacement, normally those Z rated tires don't even make it 40k. Same brakes and pads 5 years and 60,000 miles later. The battery pack has a 8 year unlimited mile warranty, what ICE engine or transmission does? It costs very little to put up an EV charger vs digging up tons of earth and installing huge underground tanks to hold diesel and gasoline. Ice cars 10x more likely than EV's to catch fire. Hybrids 20x more likely than EV's (DOT stats from multiple countries). Can you do anything besides lie and misinform?

[@RuzicaCity]

That Tesla model even has a super long range comparing it with number of electric cars sold in last decade such as Nissan Leaf or Kia Soul EV or even presently sold Mazda EV MX-30. With those, and at -30C, looks like you should not count to go much further away than the nearest grocery store... Should the government really impose that crazy idea to ban sale of ICE cars in cold countries/areas by year 203something, most people will not have an option to charge at home. Even if you have a house, where do you plug 2 or 3 cars at the same time, where is that much current supposed to come from in an average house? How many extra 240V feeds you can have from your panel in the basement and still meet the code on an average house service? Charging at work at a massive scale is also a fantasy in most situations. I work in a building (Canada) with about 400 occupants all working normal daily shift. Lets assume that 200 of them would want to charge when they come to work. Even using just regular 15Amp 120V outlets (which for winter conditions can barely “fill” more than 50km of range for 8h), that is an extra building load of about 400kW. To get to that stage, building owners would probably have to burn several million C$ to just put that infrastructure in place and wire the entire parking lot somehow… And that cost could be two digits in millions in case that the utility company doesn’t already have extra 400kW capacity just laying around in which case the owners would have to pay for a relatively long new medium voltage (say 13.8kV) feeder for extra load… How will the building owners ever get that money back? Obviously, they will not be able to unless they (re)sell me that electricity at a very hefty rate. Or we, taxpayers, would pay for it. But, how many such unessential things we are expected to pay for, seems sky is the limit... And what will be the end result of all this craziness? None. Cost of fuel in Canada is bizarrely low how everything else is expensive. An average ICE car of Tesla 3 size like Mazda 3 will consume about 10L of fuel for 100km in winter conditions on a hwy (this is probably a gross overestimate for modern small cars). That is $15. And then on the way home you stop in a grocery store and have to spend at least $50 to make a dinner for 4. And then you realize that just to have that roof over your head cost you at least another $100/day, and then you also figure that other daily cost for a family of 4 can easily get to $100/day or even more if you are paying for kids’ university etc. So in all such massive spendings, we will be “saved” by spending $5 vs $15 on “fuel” for daily commute? But to achieve that, we have to spend at least $10 000 more on an equivalent EV car, and hope that we won’t be paying $30k for a new battery in several years… Or, we are expected to switch to EVs not to save ourselves from insolvency but to save the planet. Except Justin T. forgot to tell us one important impeding factor. Global pollution by all countries and from all other sources combined is so big that should we, all Canadians, stop using ICE cars tomorrow, reduction of global pollution would literally be IMMESURABLY small, in the range of 0.0001%....

[@rewind1960]

Would you buy a gasoline car where if you parked it in the cold you lose 42% of the gas in the tank?

[@wzDH106]

Gas cars usually lose 20% - 25% with city style driving, at least we did in Minnesota. While EVs, unplugged, have a less favorable outcome to the gasoline counterpart, gasoline drivers are making more trips to the gas station in the winter as opposed to summer. AAA has been saying something similar for years.

[@phred196]

I've driven gas cars all my life. I've never given a thought to range ever. All I hear from Electric owners is endless discussions about range when they're going to charge up. Preconditioning. On and on. How much of your life do you waste doing this stuff? Why would you get a vehicle where you have to do this stuff? We already have cars where you can just get in and go and you never have to worry. I mean if it's a fashion statement that suits you then good for you. But why would I deliberately engage in an action that wastes more of my precious limited time? I've got enough things to worry about in life. I don't need to add range anxiety, temperature anxiety, preconditioning, battery degradation and all the rest to the list. At the start of the 22nd century, most of the cars are going to be gasoline cars. And it'll be that way because it makes sense. It's the easier better safer choice.

[@JacksonWalter735]

Great and informative video. I live in Texas in the US so I never had to deal with something like this until the past 2 days where it was around 10° and felt like -8 outside. I was surprised with how much extra power these vehicles use when it's cold because my efficiency didn't really go down by much these past 2 years when winter meant 50-60° weather. I still have more than enough range to drive into the city and make it back home , but I wonder how some people do this if they don't have a charger at home where cold winters happen every year. Thankfully I can precondition with my vehicle plugged in but I park my Tesla outside next to the barn because that's where my charger is (I live in an old ranch style house and garages didn't exist back then). Just for fun I tried preconditioning my Tesla without it plugged in and I went from 75% to 67%. I set it to be ready at 5:00am and I think the car started warming up around 4:30am. I would probably lose less power if I had a garage to park my car into if I precondition.

[@TeslaCampingCanada]

Without a garage or at least a charger outside like you, I probably wouldn't buy an EV in this climate yet, unless I could L2 charge at work. Eventually I think there will be L2 chargers everywhere and you could get a charge/warm up somewhere that you are parked anyway during the day. Is your charger a 240V/50A?

[@shahan484]

Are you using Fahrenheit and celcius units combined in your comment?

[@mysticalbeing13]

@@shahan484 He is just using fahrenheit. Winters used to mean 50 or 60 degrees in texas. But because nearly the whole world got blasted with artic air. Even the southern places are below freezing. It's been THAT cold.

[@JacksonWalter735]

@@TeslaCampingCanada I am not sure. I'll have to go outside and check later when I get home or in the morning. I know that the max output is 48A according to the app though

[@JacksonWalter735]

@@shahan484 Nope. All in Fahrenheit. We don't usually have winters in Texas unless you live up north closer to Oklahoma.

[@Nonplused]

Good info, but I think electric car ranges should also be given from 80% to 20%, which is the realistic capacity available for people who have to charge on the go using road side stations. In that situation I think you used more like 70-80% of the available charge to travel 96 km. (Because only 60% of the rated range is available if you stay in the 20-80% range ideal for roadside quick charge stations. 100% charge is difficult to achieve unless you can park the car for a long time, i.e. you have a charger at home.)

[@TeslaCampingCanada]

I guess, but range can change drastically with type of driving, weather, road conditions and battery degradation over the lifetime of the car, so the rated range of the car is not very useful information to actually using the car. On long trips I usually use the 25-75% range of my battery between charges, I don't consider how many kilometers that is. What the rated range can tell you, is how efficient the car is, and that is the important metric to compare between vehicles. For example the Model Y AWD LR and the Ford Mustang Mach-E AWD have similar rated ranges, but Ford accomplishes this with a larger battery. The Model Y is 20% more efficient. That saves you on charging time and cost.

[@stryngh]

Great comparison, thanks for sharing!

[@TeslaCampingCanada]

Thanks for watching!

[@seaplaneguy1]

A density increase in the air from 4 C to -29 C would cause around a 5% drop in w-h/km. The rest is thermal and drive loads. The rolling resistance increase some...maybe 5-10%. Thermal is likely 34%, air 5%, road 5%, warmup 2% for a total of 46%. I have a computer model of cars that estimates for these factors. Hope that helps.

[@TeslaCampingCanada]

Cool that is interesting, thanks!

[@onlineoffgrid]

Nice informative video thanks for upload

[@wrxs1781]

I am very happy you enjoy your Tesla, and also your math exercise to calculate whether you can get home or not on battery power. I personally living in the north will never buy one.

[@TeslaCampingCanada]

Math was just for the video.. car tells you very accurately what percent you will arrive at your destination with. There's really nothing to think about. That would have been about a 5 second video though.

[@mikapeltokorpi7671]

200 kWh/km is with warm battery. 270 kWh/km average on back and forth. Cold car with heating the battery consuming 1 111 kWh/km and 402 kWh/km on the road shown in the video are in line with similar tests.

[@TeslaCampingCanada]

Yup, my results seem to be pretty consistent with what other owners get.

[@SLow-fb3qm]

The loss of 2% sitting is a deal breaker for many who have no choice but to park outside for many hours at no charge parking lots. 9-10 hours parked with at least 2/3 remaining is a minimum required.

[@TeslaCampingCanada]

That was with sentry mode on though. Don't use sentry mode and you won't really lose anything in that amount of time.

[@OldCanadianguy953]

Stick with a gas or diesel car.

[@TeslaCampingCanada]

But then I can't fuel up at home while I sleep. I'd have to go to a gas station? That sound inconvenient.

[@justobserving4862]

@@TeslaCampingCanadalol. As a Canadian I think evs would only work for people that can afford houses with garages. A certain weight class. What do you think.

[@TeslaCampingCanada]

@@justobserving4862 Once there is more public charging infrastructure then an EV will work for anyone.

[@justobserving4862]

I guess so, as incredibly difficult as that sounds. I went snowboarding with my friends last week and as we were filling up I imagined what would have happened if she had an electric car she could afford. would we have made the one way trip with the cold. how long would we have waited to refill. with technology I'm sure these anxieties can be resolved. A Tesla is like 60k hopefully affordable evs begin to move out. and a college student can buy a 5k used ev without fear of a 20k battery replacement. I'll like to jump on the ev bandwagon, maybe I'm being too greedy@@TeslaCampingCanada

[@TeslaCampingCanada]

Some of the ski hills around here have slow chargers in the parking lot. Things like that will become more common. Slow charging at work etc. The ideal time and place to charge is where your car is going to be parked anyways. Eventually EVs will become much more affordable, give it a few more years :)

[@foilcap]

So if I go hiking in winter at -15C and then come back to the parking lot in 6 hours - it's better to have an ICE car waiting for me. Given the fact that the trail head is 145 miles from home.

[@TeslaCampingCanada]

290 miles is close to the max range in summer, so no an EV won't work for your situation unless there is somewhere to charge along your route. Parking for 6 hours isn't an issue, just turn sentry mode off, you probably won't really see any energy loss at -15C.

[@ronnied1137]

Yup !

[@colinaldridge259]

I still won't buy an EV. They are not good enough.

[@jimf4748]

In what way are they not good enough? I've owned over 30 petrol and diesels cars and have had two EV's and they have, without doubt, been the best cars I've had.Have you had much EV experience.

[@colinaldridge259]

I test drove a Tesla Model Y. The EV part was OK, but only that, just ok. The rest of the car was so flawed that there's no way I'd purchase one. We bought a premium ICE engined vehicle, and I'm glad I did. It's streets ahead of the Tesla.

[@jimf4748]

@@colinaldridge259 I've no experience of Tesla but I love my BMW EV. The build quality and equipment levels are outstanding and it is superb to drive. I don't see me ever going down the Tesla route.

[@liveworkplaywilderness1877]

After driving gas and diesel over 40 years I bought a Model three.so far seventy thousand k zero issues,

[@pcpwcail]

Chevy bolt 228000 k no issues in bc cold weather conditions no problem 😊

[@lenf3641]

I wonder what would be the mileage/gallon for the car using gas compared to these similar temperatures. I would guess the result would be an even bigger gap between them.

[@TGBalm-kk6mc]

So no EV for the cold weather areas.

[@maximel.9729]

Oh because you need more than 280km daily ? An EV will be enough for 99% of people on the roads even at -30c.

[@lon6320]

Seriously? So no ICE cars for cold weather...... driving to a gas station with parka and gloves on because it takes longer to heat up the engine block than the drive takes. Every year someone dies from carbon monoxide poisoning because they warm up their cars without taking proper precautions. I leave my ICE parked in these cold conditions. 🥶

[@GOVAUS1]

yea, because Norway is a tropical country. idiota bota

[@thomash7573]

Assuming you charge at home with my electricity rate of 9.6 cents per kWh, that is $3.11 round trip. Maybe $5 max with preheat and preconditioning without having to pull the car out of the garage. Name a single ICE vehicle that can come close to that.

[@plamenkostov1301]

@@thomash7573 Indeed, charing at home makes all the difference and I would say it is a must have while adding comfort and all. Yet to make meaningful savings one needs to be doing a min of 60-70 km/day or more.

[@Romabuk]

Great Video, We live in Squamish-Whistler, Possible in heavy snowfall more energy may be used for keeping the windows clear and visible. We drive a hybrid but do see electrics with windows heavy fogged up front and rear, and they drive slower than traffic. Maybe a supplemental fuel heater for colder countries help with this issue.

[@TeslaCampingCanada]

I have the dual motor, which uses both motor's stators to generate heat, and has a heat pump system, so I haven't had any problem with cabin heat. You need to have AC on with the heat to remove moisture from the air to prevent fogging. I think the single motor Tesla's and other similar cars might have issues generating enough heat in extreme cold though.

[@gregoswald7723]

DO the same test, parking for 8 hours, like you are going to work for the day. At -30C a lot of the battery power will be used keeping the battery warm. In 2 hours the residual heat of the battery would minimize the heating required. I had a Diesel VW back in the 80's, in Minnesota. At -30C I had to start my car every two hours (on work breaks) and let it run for 15 minutes, to ensure it would start when I wanted to go home at night. I plugged in a block heater at home so it would be ready for the morning. I would like to see one more test. Park a fully charged Tesla outside at -30C, leave it unplugged, and see how long it will last before the battery is down to say 10%. Enough to limp to a charging station?

[@TeslaCampingCanada]

Saw a guy on Twitter leave his car outside unplugged for 12 hours overnight and it got down to -40, he lost 4%.

[@journalist_guy]

This is very helpful, thanks! Can you next test charging times at a supercharger in cold weather? I'm told that -20 temps hugely extend the time needed to charge the batteries.

[@TeslaCampingCanada]

I have another video of supercharging at -35C. Since I preconditioned the battery, the charging speed was almost normal, but of course I wasted a bunch of energy doing that, resulting in needing to get that energy back, so a little longer of a charging session than it would be in warmer weather.

[@rafaelacosta304]

EV on cold weather and hills up and down areas will not go beyond 100 miles when you will get a warning to stop for a charge. I rent one in Colorado to drive from Denver and Vail. Almost 70% battery drain. Then Nightmare looking for a place to charge and wait damn 30 minutes charging to add 70 miles. So what’s the point to get one.

[@TeslaCampingCanada]

I'm sorry you had a such bad experience. How cold was the weather? The car didn't include charging stops in the navigation route for you? It looks like the Silverthorne Supercharger would have been the best place to charge on the way there, and probably Idaho Springs Supercharger on the way back. 30 mins for 70 miles sounds awfully slow. If you weren't navigating to the Supercharger, it would not have preconditioned the battery for you thus the slow charging time.

[@bossman6174]

Yeah but you live at the end of the world in Alberta of all places. Most people live in more moderate places where they think -10 C is an extreme cold zone. Only a very small part of people live in these crazy low temp zone's. They never have to face these extreme temps. I am in N Ontario and even losing 35% range on my car is no problem.

[@TeslaCampingCanada]

At the end of the world? The way people talk here, you'd think we are the centre of the universe hah! ;)

[@tictac7877]

Reason I would not buy an EV is because my wife would have to drive to work and in our province in Canada, the winter could get below -20 and I would be afraid if she could not find anywhere to charge the EV at work and get stuck in traffic and could not get home.

[@TeslaCampingCanada]

How far is her commute?

[@tictac7877]

@@TeslaCampingCanada Round trip is approximately 150Km. With less traffic it may take 50 minutes one way but normally with rush hour it takes her approximately 1hour 20 minutes one way, so approximately 3 hours return trip and it could be more if there is an accident on the road. Not sure how much drain on the battery when during rush hour with the heater on

[@TeslaCampingCanada]

@@tictac7877 I think I've seen about 2.5%/hr (for a Model Y AWD LR) heating the car in about -30c. I used 1.2%/hr overnight in my camping video, but it wasn't that cold. You'd want a long range vehicle for that trip in the dead of winter.

[@tictac7877]

@@TeslaCampingCanada thanks very much for the information as the more information the better.

[@paulkile9998]

What a stupid situation...having to plan what to do based on temperature!! With an IC engine car all you need to do is make sure you have gas in the tank, which is true regardless of the ambient temperature!!! And this guy has a nice charger in his garage...what about all those apartment dwellers in Chicago who have to rely on outside chargers that don't work in the cold!!!

[@TeslaCampingCanada]

What's there to plan? 280km range during some of the coldest days of the year is still more than enough for any of my possible needs. You could drive across Canada if you wanted. I've never experienced a charger that doesn't work in the cold. If you can't charge at home or at work, or somewhere else you park for long periods at a time, then maybe don't buy an EV yet until the infrastructure is built up more. Chicago had more to do with education than anything else from what I've seen. ICE loses range in the winter too btw.

[@BullseyeBob1]

EVs suck. Come back in 30 years and maybe they will get all the kinks out. These owners make every trip sound like a science experiment. I just want to see E or F on the dash and make a decision from there.

[@TeslaCampingCanada]

An EV is even more clear, the car tells you quite precisely what percent you will arrive at your destination with, and add a Supercharger stop to your route if necessary, so there really isn't anything to think about.

[@hanneslimbach2505]

very good stuff about EVs and cold weather is there on Björns channel, Björn Nyland, lots and lots of real life tests for many years now done in Norway, worth a look.

[@TeslaCampingCanada]

Yup Björn is great!

[@michaeltutty1540]

This just proves that an EV is simply not practical or even safe in severe weather. Add significant snow fall and the energy loss will rise significantly because of added rolling resistance. Add a bad traffic jam and EVs will be running out of power in the middle of the road, and ut us not possible or practical to carry along an extra couple hundred kilometers of electricity. When my late mother was alive and i neededto take her to appointments, it was a 200km round trip or sometimes more. My 30 year old Volvo 240 would do that on under half a tank of gas. An extra 20 litre gas can would add 200 km of in city driving, or enough fuel to run the heater for about 20 hours. The kind of range loss demonstrated here tells me that electrics have a long way to go.

[@TeslaCampingCanada]

Why would you run out of power in a traffic jam? Even at like -30c it only uses about 2%/hour to keep it warm inside.

[@georgetsokanis3542]

Poll. How many people would buy an Apple 16 if it cost 50% more and also less capable than your Apple 15?

[@TeslaCampingCanada]

Range is only one metric. And losing 50% range during the 8 or 9 days we actually had really cold weather this winter did not affected my life in any way.

[@NiceTriGuy]

So great car if you have a heated garage and home charger….

[@TeslaCampingCanada]

Owning any car without a garage in the winter kind of sucks. My garage is insulated but not heated. I use a regular 120v outlet to charge. That said, I probably wouldn't own an EV right now if I couldn't charge at home, until there is more public charging infrastructure in my city.

[@daves2624]

You've kept your car inside a heated garage with an outside temp of -28°C, (that's why the interior of the car heated up in 5 mins), and the battery is the same temp as the inside of the garage. If it was left out in the cold all night it too would be -28° and your final results would drastically differ. Hocus Pocus.

[@TeslaCampingCanada]

Garage is not heated. Attached garage, but not heated. it was -3C in the garage. If left outside you would use a few percent to warm things up first, then the energy consumption while driving would be the same. Anyways, this was just to show 'real-world usage for someone that parks their car in an unheated garage'.

[@JeffDeWitt]

That was interesting but fortunately for me if we even get down to zero here in central North Carolina it's a really big deal, if we got down into the minus double digits the lost of half my Tesla's range would be really far down on my list of things to worry about.

[@stevest1300]

I did a similar test in my 2004 Toyota Corolla. I started with a full tank of gas, didn't preheat anything and the difference between the runs was hardly calculatable. At $1.41 litre and 4.6 ltrs per 100 kms it cost whatever for the trip. I really don't care enough to do the math. At -28, I can sit in a T-shirt if I want to and run the heat at full blast for the entire trip and not worry about affecting how far I will be able to go. The car cost me $6,500 last year to buy and I can go nearly 700 kms on a tank of evil gasoline although I need to stop to pee a couple of times. I don't have the cost of lunch to add to refuelling costs. And that nasty carbon exhaust drifting through the forests...well, you took Science 7 about photosynthesis didn't y'all. Tires cost as little as $89 each every 80,000 kms or so and a rebuild motor if I choose to replace the original after...oh...let'say, 600,000 kms would be about $4,500. MY battery costs $100 at Walmart or any car parts store in town. I also prefer a bit of smog coming out of an ICE than the smug that comes out of so many EVs. Drive a Tesla for the performance. I would if I could afford it. But no one should ever think they are doing the planet a favour by driving an EV. Just drive a small ICE. It's easy. Leave your ego and small pecker syndrome at the door of the car stealership and step awy from the pickups, bloated SUVs and hemi options. Just drive something sensible. Great video. Straight up fact with no apologies or blame.

[@isaachunt5799]

and your toyota corolla will possibly last for 50 years. the vloggers pos electric car will be in the scrap yard once over 8 years old

[@TeslaCampingCanada]

The warranty is 8 years...

[@carpediem9944]

Great video! The battery capacity of 75KW is when the battery was new and it's total capacity that was never real world. The real, usable capacity with normal degradation that happens after 6months to 1 year is about 66KW. So roughly 66kw would give you 423km of range for 156Wh/km and 246km of range for 268Wh/km which is less range than presented. But this is still good and if Tesla Superchargers are everywhere amd you can charge at home then no problems.

[@TeslaCampingCanada]

Pretty sure I'm no where near that much degradation, but I'll have to do some testing one day to confirm. But you are right, even with less range, it's not an issue for me, there are fast chargers everywhere now.

[@TheRaizerx]

brilliant. thanks for this info.

[@basspig]

It takes a good insurance policy to park a Tesla inside your home garage.

[@TeslaCampingCanada]

Might want to do some more research.

[@kensoutham6828]

Similar loss with Volvo XC40 recharge ultimate in Western Canada; not all that different from my previous BMW i3 but significantly smaller battery than the Volvo. I just figure half warm weather charge and anything extra is a bonus.

[@TeslaCampingCanada]

Yup, fairly standard results it seems :)

[@hammerfist8763]

Yes, this is in line with my experience driving a Model S for 4 years in North Dakota. Can lose 30-50% range dirving around -20 F, the higher losses happened when driving into strong headwinds. EV's need more range. If you're getting one, especially anyplace that gets cold, make sure to get the long range model (like I did).

[@TeslaCampingCanada]

Yes wind and road surface conditions play a big role in range.

[@PrecisionQuest]

Good video...thks from Cowtown.

[@whirving]

They've been testing the Cybertruck up here in Fairbanks Alaska. This winter has been particularly cold, we just had a cold snap where it didn't get above -37°C for about two weeks, and dropped down below -40°C on several occasions, even as low as -48°C. Its good to see them testing and continue testing in this environment. Thanks for the good information. My new Chevy 1500 with the 5.3 loses about 17% mpg in these colder temps if that helps to compare. Important to remember that internal combustion cars are at the high end of their development and implementation while viable electric vehicles are not. So being a nay-sayer this early in their development maybe isn't so wise?

[@TeslaCampingCanada]

Very good point about the stages of development between the two technologies. Can't wait to see the Cybertruck down here in Alberta!

[@coldeadhands]

Has anyone bothered to measure the intensity of the electro magnetic field in these cars?? Didn't think so

[@wzDH106]

I haven't, but I have a fantastic tin foil hat available.

[@alasdairfinlayson]

Who the hell wants to do these mathematical gymnastics if you're doing a simple winter trip to go somewhere. All you want is to fill the tank(about four minutes), get the heater going, travel where you want to go, turn around, and get home (very important) without worrying, and without the car catching fire! Simple really.

[@TeslaCampingCanada]

Charges while I sleep, heat is instant, don't have to do any math. It's extremely simple. It's just fun nerding-out on the energy consumption details. You might want to check the statistics on EV fires again. Actually hybrids have the highest incident rate, followed by ICE, and EV far behind as least likely.

[@isaachunt5799]

plus for many people their time is more important that trying to save a few pennies. range anxiety is huge owning an ev. i've had a fast heart rate many times in ours hoping we make it home. fast charging also costs more than running a diesel. ev's are a scam

[@insanity6105]

Or you could just get a combustion engine vehicle and not have to worry about any of this

[@TeslaCampingCanada]

There's nothing for me to be worried about though. I charge at home while I sleep. Don't have to worry how full my tank is, or what the price of gas is.

[@muctop17]

What temperature can you keep inside? I prefer 23 C for driving without a coat 🥹

[@muctop17]

23C plus to be exact

[@TeslaCampingCanada]

About 20C and heated seat.

[@hughjasse3375]

Always remember the basic chemistry of lithium-ion. Operating range is 15-35C. Batteries must be above OC to accept charge, below that will permanently damage the cells. Similarly, discharging below -20C will also permanently damage cells. You do not notice this, because the battery management system performs checks and measures, and uses the batteries own energy as a heat source, to prevent this happening. However, if the BMS fails, the battery (and so likely the car) will become scrap in sub arctic temperatures. Likewise, any lengthy period of inactivity in outside conditions below -20C, say parked for two days or more with a battery level below 60-70%, will likely freeze and damage the battery. It's not like a diesel vehicle, that could freeze in tundra, thaw out months later in the spring, and still function again. That same scenario will kill any EV, including a Tesla, straight to Landfill. This is just a consequence of lithium-ion chemistry, as the batteties are just not intrinsically suited to sub-arctic temperatures. Ditto for Sodium-ion battery chemistry. Do look this up, and check manufacturer user guidance to confirm these figures for yourself, if you are not already aware. These are just properties of chemistry abd physics, and there is no rabbit any manufacturer can pull out of the hat to change this, without significant hacks like BMS. If the car is always in the city, just making local journeys, charging at home with a garage, and easy access to quick, urban recovery and breakdown services, that can work out fine. If it is intended for inter city, rural or long distance driving, where there may be a risk of the vehicle becoming stranded for days without recovery, that will likely destroy the car, and won't be covered by insurance or warranties, through neglect, so you've lost your money.

[@TeslaCampingCanada]

Yes the Tesla manual recommends not leaving the car exposed to temperatures -30C or below for any longer than 24 hours at a time or the battery could be damaged. So obviously try to follow that advice. If you can't park in a garage, it needs to be plugged in, and I don't think a normal 120V/15A outlet would be enough. Definitely a risk to travel anywhere when it's below -30C where you could be stranded and the car not be able to be towed within 24 hours. I need to push back on a couple things you've said though. If you permanently damaged your battery by leaving it stranded in such cold weather, the whole car would not be scrap, I don't see any reason for that to be true, only the battery would be scrap, and it would not go 'straight to the landfill'. It would go straight to be recycled.

[@hughjasse3375]

@@TeslaCampingCanadaCurrently, recycling methods are not economic, and batteries are just shredded for the precious metals only. It is cheaper to mine new materials than attempt to 100% reconstitute a battery. Likewise, the economic cost of replacing a battery into a dead EV, including all the logistics and paperwork, means insurance companies just write off the whole vehicle as scrap. The batteries can be worth much more than a second hand vehicle on the open market. That's one of the reasons Hertz and Sixt have pulled back on EV fleet purchases. That's also one of the reasons that EV insurance has risen so sharply, due to those difficulties, and the difficulties of even finding sufficient specialist garages with capacity to perform the work. I have given reasons why I think EVs are a good idea within a cold, local city range, but the current risks of effectively losing the entire vehicle to cold weather, in open country, are too great in my opinion. Currently.

[@TeslaCampingCanada]

It's a fairly simple procedure to replace a Tesla battery. The Model Y service manual includes instructions and quotes about 4-5 hours labour depending on the exact model. If it's simply a faulty or degraded battery, there is absolutely no way the car is being written off. Many battery replacements happen under warranty and insurance wouldn't even be involved. If the car has been in a collision, then yes, it would likely be written off. Over 90% of the materials in the battery are currently recycled. Tesla recycles their batteries in-house. Check out other companies like Redwood Materials to see how they are recycling old batteries and producing new cathode/anode materials.

[@hughjasse3375]

@@TeslaCampingCanada Makes you wonder why the two largest Tesla fleet buyers in the world - Hertz and Sixt - are pulling out of EV leasing and rental, citing unsustainable maintenance and write off costs, and extreme depreciation in values. I'm sure those CEOs have looked into it thoroughly. It's real money on the line, their jobs depend on it. You can't post links on YT, but I'd search terms like "EV used market prices", "dead EV battery replacement costs", "EV parts waiting times", "EV insurance costs". I've replaced a 40Kwh battery in an env200 - I can assure you it's not a straightforward job, even for a professional engineer (me). I still had to get the work certified from a dealership, and register a vehicle modification, to insure the van again. We've all seen how spectacular and EV fire is when it occurs - insurance companies just won't have hobbyists tinkering around with a 350v 70Kwh battery without checks and precautions. I am pro EV, I just think it's a false impression to suggest they are anywhere near ready yet for anything other than urban driving within the city limits, if it's a significant personal investment, and you are dependent on a car for transport.

[@TeslaCampingCanada]

@hughjasse3375 1) Hertz didn't pull out of EV's completely, they sold 1/3 of their EV fleet. They are just slowing down. 2) Hertz bought most of their Teslas at the height of the 2021-2022 inflated prices. 3) New technology always depreciates quickly, no surprise there. 4) I'm well aware of the price of a tesla battery replacement. It's not something I worry about, the chances are so small. 5) The cost of my insurance is perfectly reasonable. 6) You're right, I don't think people should be replacing the HV batteries by themselves. 7) I agree EVs obviously aren't right for everyone yet, but my personal experience has been great. It has been working perfectly for my needs, which is primarily long-distance highway driving in Spring, Summer, and Fall. (700km weekend camping trips, 2500km week long roads trips)

[@jason1872]

I live in southern Ontario and would love to buy a tesla, but im worried my commute in the winter would be too long for the battery. Roughly 300kms round trip and the vehicle would sit at work for 24hrs while im on shift before heading home the next morning. Seems like I would be cutting it too close

[@TeslaCampingCanada]

Unfortunately that wouldn't work in winter, unless you could plug in at work, even a 20A plug that people would normally plug their block heaters into might be enough.

[@donthompson7889]

You are a firefighter. It is hard to feel sorry for someone who only has to go to work 7 times in 4 weeks and gets to sleep and eat on the municipal taxpayers' dime.

[@jason1872]

@@donthompson7889 ahhh pardon?? We all throw in our own money and one of us grabs groceries before shift and cooks for the crew. Many times the food is eaten cold because we get calls during cooking and respond. We don't have scheduled breaks. Rest when we can. If you call sleeping on a cot while being snapped out of bed multiple times through the night with alarms having no idea if you're going to an infant VSA, house fire, serious car accident, or a simple smoke detector that is malfunctioning SLEEP. Why don't you give it a go? I'm proud of the work I do. The people I have helped and the friendships I've made. Makes the bad days a little less bad. Sorry you feel that way. I also never said I was a fire fighter so you must have a hate on.

[@mirrorblue100]

You got some nice axes there . . .

[@sdavidleigh6642]

46% reduction. Good to know.

[@dhroman4564]

You started from a garage, heated or not the battery was significantly warmer than outside. My bet is if you were starting from ambient temperature you would not have made it.

[@TeslaCampingCanada]

Oh, it would have taken the other 63% of my battery to.... do what exactly?

[@dhroman4564]

Cold soak the car outside at those temps and your range would be very much different.For the people without a garage to charge in, it would give a better real world idea of what cold temps do to range. @@TeslaCampingCanada

[@timlass6103]

Thank you very much for a practical real-world report on cold weather usage and range for your Tesla. And I appreciate the later UPDATE of similar trips that you posted above. I am not an EV owner but would consider one; and this video would not discourage me. It's about what I would expect. If I got an EV, it would be a Tesla; they are simply the most developed and advanced EVs out there.

[@TeslaCampingCanada]

Thanks for the comment 🙂

[@carlsapartments8931]

Do another test to see what happens when your car lives outside at night? That will be an actual real test. My hybrid car charges at 40-50% lower than summer being outdoors in -20-30-40 Alberta and because of heating I run 25kwh per 100km(250wh/km) at those low winter temps, while summer time I run at only12kwh per 100km(120wh/km). I also drive my car somewhat gentle to preserve power because I only have an 18.4 kwh battery but I still drive full electric year round, except long trips. (caveat, my hybrid engine is set to automatically kick in at -25, that is to boost heat to the cabin and batteries)

[@TeslaCampingCanada]

If it gets cold again I will do that. Might have to wait until next winter :p

[@mauricedegroff5669]

It’ll really help if the battery is significantly improved in future cars they’re talking about 600 to 750 mile max range and a 10 minute charge. I hope that’s not a dream because that would be great. I think it can happen probably well with the new salt solid batteries are talking about, but it’s worth waiting a little bit to see if they do improve

[@christopherhaak9824]

Battery charging is effectively a chemical change / reaction. You are dreaming if you think you can change the kinetics that much.

[@TeslaCampingCanada]

I wouldn't pay more for faster charging even if it was possible. My car chargers fast enough already. I need to go use the washroom and grab and snack and stretch my legs when I stop, and my car is ready when I'm done. Plus the majority of my charging is slow charging overnight anyways.

[@jperkins1269]

Not sure what recently happened to all of those Chicago Tesla owners then. I don’t even think it was that cold.

[@TeslaCampingCanada]

From what I've seen it was a perfect combination of multiple issues. A small percentage of total superchargers in the area actually being offline (might not have even been related to the weather) Then you have long weekend traffic, combined a influx of new ride-share drivers using EVs, combined with the cold weather, and many new drivers not understanding about preconditioning the battery etc.

[@shaneandersen1316]

Imagine an ICE vehicle losing 2% energy after 2hrs while parked with the engine not running. No one would accept that. EVs are just a fool’s fantasy.

[@wzDH106]

I personally never experienced vampire drain with EVs, but we've never had a Tesla either.... probably more Tesla specific. But I'd argue otherwise, we regularly accept up to a 25% reduction in fuel economy up north, I haven't heard much of a fuss with making an extra trip a month to the gas station.... except for us of course, attempting to refuel using a metal gas dispenser, at night, with negative temperatures plus windchill, was far from enjoyable. Plugging in at home is the ultimate luxury.

[@TeslaCampingCanada]

1) Sentry mode was on 2) It usually uses a bit of energy right after parking, then less as time goes on. It's never been an issue for me.

[@TeslaCampingCanada]

Ya I think Teslas have a bit more drain than some other brands, especially initially after parking, the car uses a percent or two preparing itself for sleep or whatever, but it really slows down after the first hour. Bjorn Nyland parked a Model 3 at the airport in Norway in November for 22 days and it lost 10.6% (sentry mode off obviously) kzbin.info/www/bejne/e3e0gnmJaL14ga8 It's really not an issue in my opinion.

[@-2u2]

I will stick with an internal combustion engine; after 500 miles, I just need to fill the tank and continue my trip. But thanks for your information; it was very informative.

[@TeslaCampingCanada]

You don't stop to use the washroom or eat for 500 miles?

[@-2u2]

No @@TeslaCampingCanada

[@TeslaCampingCanada]

That's impressive. I don't think I've ever driven that far in my life without stopping at least once.

[@Dannysoutherner]

My biggest fear about BEV is battery going flat at 0F outside, traffic jam, no place to charge, afraid to use heater making it drain faster. I know I can gas up anywhere and run heater to my hearts content. And I live in a very hilly area, not flat like shown here. Nothing but hills.

[@wzDH106]

How are you expected to get gas in a gridlock? You can't move, you're stuck. And if we use the typical snowstorm fear tactic, good luck walking a few miles on the highway in a blizzard. Fact is, gas runs out, the battery energy will be used. I see no difference. Plenty of hypothetical nonsense out there we can be terrified with. AAA roadside assistance wasn't built on EVs, they were created from the failures of gasoline vehicles and their operators, though to be fair, no one should expect roadside assistance to help in the above mentioned hypothetical.

[@Dannysoutherner]

@@wzDH106 Well here is the deal -- not hypothetical nonsense as you call it, I lived it -- that very scenario played out here in my Alabama mountain home. A snowstorm was predicted for 90 miles south, we were in the clear. Things changed instantly. We got hit with an ice storm over a 3 hour time. Locked everything down. All roads impassable. Many people stayed with their cars, ran the motor intermittently to keep the heat up and were fine. A full gas tank can easily run your heater 48 hours with reasonable discipline. Within 24 hours most of the road was safe to drive and people went on their way. Granted many abandoned their cars. This was on the busiest road in the state, near shopping areas so many left their cars for food. Food joints jointly decided to stay open 24 hours instead of closing because it was the right thing to do. The question remains - could a Tesla keep you warm and alive for 24 to 48 hours in 0F temps in an ice storm with screaming winds? As I say, I lived it.

[@wzDH106]

@@Dannysoutherner To answer, yes, EVs can heat the cabin for a sustained amount of time. But as we've always been told, there's no free lunch, the energy source will run out, gas or electric. To be hypothetical, here are some numbers for let's say an early Chevy Bolt, with a relatively small pack at 60kWh: at 1/2 capacity one would be looking at roughly 15 hrs of heat, at 1/4 capacity just under 8hrs. I'm assuming a 2,000 watt continuous run time, essentially a household space heater running full bore within the small confines of the vehicle. One could most likely stretch this further with use of heated seats, as most EVs have this equipped. Cycling heat periodically will also extend the run time while maximizing the heated seats use. The above examples will no doubt increase in run time with vehicles equipped with larger batteries (more stored energy). But I will admit, battery heating is completely unnecessary with this situation, essentially wasting stored energy for battery heating while remaining static. I'm not sure what, if any, impact this would have in an emergency, but I can imagine some drivers oblivious to background battery preconditioning scheduled for the next planned fast charging stop, we're talking 80F or 90F desired battery temperatures for fast charging. Not all vehicles do this automatically, some lack it completely with others requiring manual activation. For us personally, if we got stuck at home, we would have already charged the vehicles to 80% and 100%. The SUV will no doubt squeeze 38 hrs of heat at an 80% charge while rationing, and 47 hrs at 100%

[@TeslaCampingCanada]

These seem like irrational fears to me. The battery isn't just going to suddenly "go flat". There is electricity everywhere, use the navigation, and it will tell you how much % you will arrive with, or route you to a supercharger if needed. Just use some common sense, like you also must do with a gas vehicle, and you'll be fine.

[@Dannysoutherner]

@@TeslaCampingCanada mmmm. Gas stations are everywhere. Gas stations are manned by human beings. Charging stations are not. They are in backs of parking lots. Half the time they don't work. If I could pull into a Sunoco or Valero or Shell and pay the guy for 10 bucks worth of electricity with cash I would be okay with that. Unfortunately you have to use an app on your phone, hope like heck it works and hope like heck the charger works. If a gas station is down go across the street to another one. No big deal. Maybe in 20 years ev charging will be like that. We will probably all be dead by then tho, the way Biden and Putin are leading things. Look at the youtube of electric cars in chicago a week or 2 ago. That is where ev is now.

[@game_jinx]

let it sit out there over night

[@rochboulanger6565]

Does anyone else here work more than 1 hour per day and not have a heated garage?

[@TeslaCampingCanada]

Lol I wasn't driving to work. And my garage is not heated.

[@marioeduardoferreiraruiz]

Oh my…the difference is staggering! I guess you REALLY have to do your ‘homework’ and you have to be ‘precise’ when it comes to the dreaded ‘battery life’ and ‘charging’ details.😶😳

[@TeslaCampingCanada]

Not really, I've never had any issue yet, just charge at night, car tells you what percent you will use to you destination and return trip home. Daily life in the city, I've never been below 30%. On long trips I've only been under 20% a few times, and the car has never been below 10%.

[@marioeduardoferreiraruiz]

@@TeslaCampingCanada That is your experience, not someone who cannot charge at home over night. These vehicles, at the moment, seem to be for only one class of people. In order for any vehicle to become ‘mainstream’ it needs to be adapted to everyone, and everyone’s needs. Hopefully what I just mentioned will arrive in a few hundred years, let’s hope. 🙄

[@TeslaCampingCanada]

@@marioeduardoferreiraruiz All that is needed is more charging infrastructure. You can see this in other countries already. Just being able to slow charge at work, or at school, or get a somewhat fast charge while at the grocery store, or a restaurant will solve the issue for most people who can't charge at home.

[@marioeduardoferreiraruiz]

@@TeslaCampingCanada First of all, let me come out and admit I’m not ‘anti-EV’ here, so…I’m not disagreeing with you for the sake of wasting your time and mine. While I did dream once about a world of ‘all EV’, I have come to the conclusion the technology is there, however, we are unwilling to make it easier and affordable for everyone, all in favor of the almighty ‘dollar’. Money aside, I’ll just focus on ‘end-user’ friendly here first…devices should charge quicker, I know we’re capable of making that happen, but I mean REALLY fast, as in ‘fuel pump’ fast. Also, I know we can make batteries more resilient, come on…that should be a ‘cake-walk’, we’ve been to the moon right, once upon a time! If we make EVs that charge within a minute, and replace all ‘gas’ stations with ‘charging’ stations, and if we design weather resistant batteries (and charging stations) with a ‘life cycle’ similar to that of a transmission or better, which can be recycled or reused or modified and improved as the vehicle gets passed down (just like a gas car). If we manufacture entry-level EVs with standard features, which cater to all of our immediate safety and essential needs, without compromising either, regardless of ‘price tag’, if repairs to said EVs would not carry an astronomical price-tag, and if some of the models would simply be easier to charge without danger of internal damage to the vehicle or even a possible fire….maybe EVs could be the ‘vehicle’ of tomorrow! The way I see it…right now, I believe we’re too fast-paced for them, we don’t have enough time to stop and have to think about the ‘next-drive’. Current life is not that slow yet for them, EVs would need to be better…way better.

[@jimvanlieshout7657]

Fine, good for a 40km trip-about 30 miles- which, in a way shows that EVs are niche product, good for short trips, commutes. Now take that on a 700 km trip (about what I get on a 60 L fill up) in 0 weather.

[@TeslaCampingCanada]

700km at 0°C? At 0°C I still have around 450km range, only a slight decrease from the summer, so it would be no different than in the summer, I'd stop to charge for about 10-15 minutes every two hours or so while we take a quick break. For arguments sake, lets say 0°F, that's -18°C, so I'd have about 340km range. That's enough that I'd still stop every two hours, but have to charge longer each time. Obviously this would be less convenient than a gas car. However, during most of the year, road tripping in an EV has been amazing, you just charge while you take a quick break, which you do a lot anyway if you have kids, and the car is always ready to go before we are.

[@hanneslimbach2505]

battery (not outside air) temperature is the defining factor as lithium based batteries loose capacity when they are cold, heating requirement off course changes with outside air temperature, but that is not such a big factor, capacity dependenc based on battery temperature is much more important. So as long the battery is kept at a normal temperature no problem whatsoever, when the battery is cold you obviously loose range temporarely, but that's ok, because if you are on a longer roadtrip battery gets warmed and after supercharging no problem at all.

[@csjrogerson2377]

How very odd, my diesel ICE has no appreciable loss of range in cold weather. I wonder which vehicle I'd prefer?

[@mdaniel444]

You probably want an ev

[@csjrogerson2377]

@@mdaniel444 And you might want a horse and cart, because at the end of the day, we want to make progress. So give me a battery energy density of 5KW/KG and a charging rate of 2.2MW and that will give me a 700 mile range in a small sedan and a 5 minute refill time. Until then EVs can just go and catch fire.

[@8ballphilc]

I can absolutely guarantee that your diesel ICE does have appreciable range loss at these temps.Maybe not as large as 40%, but at least in the 15-20% range minimum.

[@keithmontoya8793]

Definitely NOT a cost effective vehicle.

[@TeslaCampingCanada]

Even at -30c using almost double the energy it's still half the cost of gas for me charging at home.

[@barriegregory6606]

He started with a warm car & a warm battery when outside temp was minus 31 deg, the energy to heat the car & battery should be factored in even though the car was still unacceptable for cold climates, the real world test would be a cold start & a cold start for the return journey & at 110 k/m,ph.

[@TeslaCampingCanada]

In what way was it unacceptable for cold climates?

[@awsstvawsstv2809]

So glad i found your video very well done. Am debating getting model y too. I live in alberta as well. Just couple of question. 1- so you always must have the car plugged while parked inside the garage. How long it takes to precondition it before you can go for drive in minus 29 degrees? 2- i know since you are from alberta when temperatures dropped to like -40 epcor issued grid warning and we had to use less electricity at home. How did that affect your charging at home? Did the rate of charge increase or did you have to charge it less? 3- How much it cost to install the charger you have at home? I assume its level 2. Any company you recommend to do the installation. Thanks 😊

[@TeslaCampingCanada]

Hi, I'll try to answer: 1) You don't have to always plug it in. Some nights I don't bother plugging it in. You also don't need to precondition, that just makes sense to do though, you click a button on the app on your phone to start warming up the cabin a few minutes before you leave, or have it scheduled, and it warms up the battery too if it's cold. But you can drive with a cold battery if you don't have time to precondition or whatever. You just won't have full regen ability until the battery starts to warm itself up. For short trips it doesn't really make sense to warm the battery up first, it's just a waste of electricity. 2) My car had already charged during the day, then I got the epcor alert on my phone in the evening, so it didn't affect me in any way. I think we got the alert again the next evening, but because it was so cold we hadn't even left the house that day. 3) I haven't had a L2 charger installed. I charge off a regular 120V/15A outlet using the Tesla Mobile Connector. It's slow but enough. As long as the garage isn't below 0C, I get about 20% in the 12-13 hours overnight. It's slower in the winter, but hasn't been a problem yet, since my commute is short. From what I've read, to have a L2 charger properly installed, with permits and stuff, probably looking at ~$1500, and another $1000 if you need a load-shedder, which you need by code if your panel is near capacity. It's not worth it for my needs, at the moment at least. Hope that helps! :)

[@Green__one]

So parked in a heated garage, preconditioned before leaving, very short drive, parked for a very short time outside, and a very short drive back. Yawn. The car never got cold. The whole test doesn't really mean anything. How about this, I took my p85+ at -30c from Calgary to radium, parked it for two nights outdoors unplugged, and drove home. When I got in it in radium, I couldn't get over 30 km/h for the first 10 minutes, and the cabin heat wouldn't come on, when I got to the invermere supercharger, it took a full hour to warm up the battery enough to even start charging. I had to stop both directions in Canmore despite starting with a full charge at both ends. Tried the same trip last summer, didn't stop in Canmore either way, charged on 110 volt outlet in Invermere for about 24 hours, and that was plenty. -30 c sucks!