Tesla Range in Canadian Winter

[@unclej3910]

Try parking your Tesla outside 24/7 at -20 and charge it outdoors. Then do a test. My former Chevrolet Bolt EUV had a range of about 240-250 miles in the warm summer months, in the winter, 180 miles. I traded the Bolt for a Subaru Forester. I’m now a happy camper.

[@TeslaCampingCanada]

It's +6c here now.. If it gets cold again, I'll make a video of that too.

[@scottfairbairn6305]

I'm not sure what the big news is with this finding, as far as I know, it's been common knowledge that cold temperatures cut the battery life significantly. For the most part, it means you need to put extra thought into you charging and trip plans. And, lets be honest here, an EV is not for everyone...yet. I used to live in the north in canada, and temperatures of -35 , and even -45 were not uncommon. My ICE car was useless unless it was plugged into a battery and engine warmer at all times. Most small businesses and such had outside outlets for people to plug in their cars. So it's not just EV's that hurt in the cold.

[@TeslaCampingCanada]

@scottfairbairn6305 Not news at all, I'm honestly surprised this video got any views at all lol. And good points regarding winter, common sense/planning, and most things not working well in the extreme cold.

[@wzDH106]

I'm not sure what the issue is here, we parked ours in Minnesota, unplugged, for 3 days in temperatures of -25F (-31C), but in total the vehicle sat at the airport for a better part of the week. Didn't have any issues, and more importantly, the vehicle started without fuss. Was there range loss? Absolutely, but still got us home. If one doesn't have home charging then EVs are probably more of a fuss, otherwise, they're the most convenient appliance to live with. For reference, our gas cars took a 20% - 25% hit in fuel economy below 10F (-12C) with city/errand driving, and would show a struggle to start below -10F ( -23C). Guess there's no real winner.

[@TeslaCampingCanada]

@@wzDH106 Exactly, nothing works great in extreme cold, but at least your EV will start after being parked outside for a few days in that weather.

[@thomasjacques5286]

Finally a lucid and highly informative video on cold weather driving which BTW mirrors my experience after owning 2 Teslas since 2020.

[@TeslaCampingCanada]

Thanks!

[@tws1234]

The majority of battery degradation in such extreme cold situations is due to heating the cabin since the battery is warmed up and thus behaving close to normal. Did you have the cabin set at 78F, 75F, 70F or 69F degrees during your preconditioning and the drive itself? It makes all the difference when evaluating battery performance and how much is bleeding off for interior cabin heat vs. vehicle performance. Someday we'll have better metrics for this kind of test...

[@st-ex8506]

@@tws1234 There are two major energy losses in very cold weather: 1. The energy needed to heat up the cabin which, as you rightly said, depends on how cosy a cabin temperature you set. I recommend using seat heating as much as possible to stay comfortable, before turning up cabin heat. 2. Heating up the battery. The correct procedure is, as you said again, to pre-heat the battery while the car is still hooked up. But then, the battery must be maintained at its optimum temperature. In hot temperatures, it must be cooled. In cool temperature, it heat up itself, through ohmic losses. In very frigid weather, an increasing fraction of its charge must be used to maintain the battery at its optimal functioning temperature EVEN if it was pre-heated. This drain depends directly on outside temperature, and can't be reduced. At -30°C, it is quite significant.

[@carlsmith5545]

@@st-ex8506 wow! You go through alot to operate an EV in the cold. Shit im glad that all i have to do is....start up.

[@marioeduardoferreiraruiz]

@@carlsmith5545 Yeah, me too…this seems endless and incredibly tedious. For me, it would get old quite quick. My ‘iPhone’ just started getting on my nerves-just last year as its charge started to ‘drain’ much quicker than usual…for some reason, and I have no idea why. Now I have to carry the damn charger everywhere I go and I have to babysit this stupid iPhone like I gave ‘birth’ to it. I’m glad I don’t have to do that with my ‘gas’ car.🙄

[@AnthonyJMendoza-f7i]

40% less at about -29 degrees C. That is about what I have heard other people get. Thank you for the data.

[@Greytusks]

This info would be even more useful if compared to the usual ICE additional fuel consumption at that weather and trip type?

[@AnthonyJMendoza-f7i]

@@Greytusks Gasoline cars normally lose about 10% in milage. This is one of the reasons EVs really need about 1000 km of range. 60% of 1000 km is 600 km which is plenty of range. 60% of 500 km is not enough. The necessary range increase is in the labs. It will just take a few more years to work out the manufacturing bugs.

[@bradarmstrong3952]

46% less, and he is comparing to 4 degrees C, not 20 degrees C ...

[@wzDH106]

​@@bradarmstrong3952 4C isn't cold for a vehicle with a heat pump with preconditioning. Hell, we don't precondition and still see over EPA with both EVs in Pacific Northwest winters, one with a heat pump, and one without. He also showed an estimated 300 miles of range at 4C. I'd imagine the driving style is fairly tame as most hardly see over 250 miles real world Tesla miles in the summer. Though I'd imagine those individuals are frequently doing 80+ MPH on the highway.

[@SigFigNewton]

@@AnthonyJMendoza-f7ifor most people 100km is plenty of range. I’m living, not road tripping

[@SVJoana]

You had a very good start with your car in the garage. For those people who park their car outside, they will undoubtedly suffer more range degradation.

[@TeslaCampingCanada]

Yes, you could lose a few more percent to warm things up first.

[@KenMorter]

EV'S are meant for wealthy people. Most have garages. The lower and many middle income classes will be forced onto public transit or Uber. I guess those people could do a video about how soon they get frostbite at a bus stop.

[@KenMorter]

@@oddjobsandrandomprojects I drive a 2014 Nissan Sentra with a six speed manual. Although it averages about 5.6 liters/100 it will achieve 4.8 (or better) liters/100 if driven with fuel economy in mind. That is the equivalent of 57 mpg! The car cost me less than 20,000 new in 2014. New ones now start at about 25000. Much more cost effective than an expensive EV and probably a better car.

[@darlenehancock1666]

@@TeslaCampingCanada You should have known that about Canadian Winters before you bought the car !!! not smart !!! who is bragging now ??? Waldo Guilbeault AND Primeministurd Just as True dick Also think Canada is Florida or Arizona or California AND ARE OK with CANADIANS GOING 100 % Green IDIOTS EVs Do not work in cold Canada Too Bad You Wasted Money ON GREEN SHI+ Good Luck !!!

[@paulcamire]

⁠@@KenMorterhaha, we’re middle class, 2 EVs parked outside and i drive for Uber full time!

[@hughj776]

Really appreciated this information. Thanks. Luckily we don't see -29C very often. But your tips are worth following even if it isn't that cold.

[@TeslaCampingCanada]

Glad it was helpful! It's basically summer here now, so much for worrying about range :p

[@grandyhynes1636]

Not everyone has a heated garage . Could you do the same test with the car parked outside overnight???

[@TeslaCampingCanada]

My garage isn't heated either. Ya I will probably have to wait until next winter for weather that cold again though. Lots of other videos on KZbin showing that though I'm sure.

[@AW-om8we]

Small note: you can't warm up the battery in five minutes. In that short timespan it only warms the cabin.

[@TeslaCampingCanada]

Well it warmed it a little bit, and then driving will continue warming it. I had almost full regen right from the start, so that's warm enough for me, anymore than that and I feel I'm just wasting electricity. Is it doing any harm by not fully warming it?

[@beltrams]

​@TeslaCampingCanada , driving with a cold battery doesn't hurt it. If the car needs to limit power, it will. Ditto regen. I think it's a waste to get the battery all warm, especially for a short trip, if I don't need a warm battery to facilitate charging or Supercharging any time soon.

[@ralanham76]

Also He was inside the garage when started

[@leudast1215]

It affects recharging your battery you numb skull :) that's why there's been a bunch of outrage at charging stations in sub zero temperatures. @@beltrams

[@PiefacePete46]

​​@@beltrams: I don't have a Tesla, and, happily for me I won't ever see temperatures that low. I am guessing that the battery management system will heat the battery while you drive, when needed. If that's the case, heating the battery and interior before you disconnect the charger is effectively adding range?

[@omarb155]

How much electricity does the car burn just keeping the cabin warm when it placed in park. How much range loss is due to keeping the cabin warm.

[@TeslaCampingCanada]

Well, on my recent camping trip, it used 1.2%/hr to keep the cabin warm through the night, but it wasn't very cold.. I think it's about 2%/hr in colder weather (-30c) from other videos I've seen.

[@ronnied1137]

That figure would be $$$$$$$$$$, Big Bucks.

[@TeslaCampingCanada]

@@ronnied1137 Big bucks?? A full charge costs me CAD$12 at home. The cost of heating the cabin is negligible.

[@yorkschumann5126]

Similar loss here in Finland two weeks ago when it was -25. I got avg consumption of 280 wh/km for 45 km drive. Charging outside (no warm garage) is also quite bad. The efficiency is 60% when it was -30 at night. The car was heating up the battery most of the time.

[@SKYLIMI]

What about the people living in the apartment?

[@karvanenpalli8508]

​@@SKYLIMIthey drive diesel

[@st-ex8506]

@@karvanenpalli8508 Diesel fuel congeal at between -10 and -15°C. So, if a diesel car sits outside in -25 or -30°C temperature, without having a pre-heater system hooked up to a plus, it just won't start at all in the morning! Even with a gasoline car, starting it will be a 50:50 roll of dice depending on how new a battery you have. The EV will start, no problem... it will only suffer reduced range. So: 1-nil for EVs!

[@brianthompson4079]

2:38 ​@@st-ex8506

[@CreRay]

@@st-ex8506 Nah it's no problem to drive a diesel at least in temperatures down to -35C, as long as you have the "correct" diesel for the applicable season. Even in the very north of Sweden diesel vehicles are being used without any issues. Ofcourse, should you take a vehicle with continental winter diesel, yeah that will not start in those temperatures.

[@johnreese3762]

Great video with great info! Thanks from sunny California!!!

[@TeslaCampingCanada]

Thanks for watching!

[@teslapower18]

Really interesting. Driving in similar conditions -30C around 200km trip, my 7y old Model S P85D makes it by 250Wh/km in average. But in summer with same 105km/h the consumption varies between 210-220Wh/km. These Model Ys seem to be way more efficient in summer, but in winter the difference seems to be almost other way roind. Geetings from Finland))

[@st-ex8506]

Excellent point! I guess it might be those cars are equipped with LFP batteries, which are said to be more sensitive to cold?!

[@TeslaCampingCanada]

His car and my car both have NMC batteries. The RWD Y uses LFP.

[@TeslaCampingCanada]

@teslapower18 Interesting, I usually get about 160 - 165Wh/km highway in the summer, that is quite the difference. I don't know what would be the reasons for that much difference and the opposite in the winter. Thanks for watching though!

[@st-ex8506]

@@TeslaCampingCanada Thanks! then, it takes car of that possible explanation of the difference.

[@adamhero459]

It’s not that they are more efficient in summer. The issue is that everything uses the battery that then reduces the range. So you want to not freeze in the car? Then your range goes down.

[@techtechuw597]

Electric car manufacturers should perhaps consider making (gas or natural gas powered) hybrid salon/battery heaters for cold climates? Losing near 40% of the battery to extra heating needs is way too much.

[@tadghsmith1457]

Full EV’s aren’t practical for cold, sparsely populated countries like Canada and probably never will be without a breakthrough in battery technology. Hybrids could work though.

[@StarFyreXXX]

@@tadghsmith1457 works fine for people in cities/suburbs as drive to work or shopping isnt a big deal.

[@tadghsmith1457]

@@StarFyreXXX Assuming the owners are not hi-rise dwellers and can charge at home that might be true for 99% of journeys. But what do you do when you want to take the kids upstate to visit granny, and there are no chargers on your route? I guess you could rent an ICE vehicle for those occasions… Thing is though most people in the market for a new car are going to want to buy a car they can use for 100% of journeys not just 99%. The all electric car is still not a main car for most people. It’s a second car for doing short trips around town. For that, it may have a niche.

[@StarFyreXXX]

@@tadghsmith1457 depends where you live. where i am lots of ppl have just a tesla or another electric car as their main car BUT here every mall, some schools, many larger offices, etc have charging ports. A few gas stations with restaurants as well. Along the 401 there's also places to charge. But thats cause its around toronto. No idea what its like around middle canada and the states, outside of like NY to boston etc i hear its not that great. (or outside cali).

[@KristofV1981]

@@tadghsmith1457 go take a look in Norway then.

[@foilcap]

So if I go hiking in winter at -15C and then come back to the parking lot in 6 hours - it's better to have an ICE car waiting for me. Given the fact that the trail head is 145 miles from home.

[@TeslaCampingCanada]

290 miles is close to the max range in summer, so no an EV won't work for your situation unless there is somewhere to charge along your route. Parking for 6 hours isn't an issue, just turn sentry mode off, you probably won't really see any energy loss at -15C.

[@ronnied1137]

Yup !

[@NetoperekMordulec]

Try this in 5 years time, I will be hearing your cries in Australia!

[@wiplashsmile]

@@oddjobsandrandomprojectsWait, you consider that good performance?

[@wiplashsmile]

@@oddjobsandrandomprojectsI'm saying 47% range decrease in range between summer and winter isn't what I'd consider good performance. My full gas vehicles might get 2 mpg less in the winter when "preheating" before a trip. My hybrid does suffer in winter with about a 4-5 mpg decrease in mpg. It really suffers in summer when running the AC at about 10 mpg decrease which would equate to about 20% decrease in range.

[@wiplashsmile]

@@oddjobsandrandomprojects An additional personal concern with EV is my daily mileage to work at 47 miles one way. For me hybrid is seems the better choice at least until battery technology improves. I'm sure it will, I just prefer the onboard charging capabilities of hybrid. Oh and as battery tech improves that will only make hybrids even better.

[@melroy19able]

Yea we need more fast chargers especially around mid west and north

[@flyovercounty1427]

Thanks for the video. What was your cost for the electricity for that trip? My 14yr old Toyota V8 pickup would use 33ish litres of 87 in that weather at $1.34 (Red Deer avg) for a cost of $44-$45. It would use $30-$32 in warm summer weather. The increased air density alone could require 20% more power to maintain highway speed, plus increased rolling resistance from cold tires.

[@TeslaCampingCanada]

For most of the year it costs me about $12 for a full charge at home. So the 37% used for this trip would be about $4.50. It was -3c in the garage in this video though, so it uses some more electricity to warm the battery for charging but I'm not sure how much. Maybe add another dollar or so to that?

[@journalist_guy]

This is very helpful, thanks! Can you next test charging times at a supercharger in cold weather? I'm told that -20 temps hugely extend the time needed to charge the batteries.

[@TeslaCampingCanada]

I have another video of supercharging at -35C. Since I preconditioned the battery, the charging speed was almost normal, but of course I wasted a bunch of energy doing that, resulting in needing to get that energy back, so a little longer of a charging session than it would be in warmer weather.

[@brianhalberry]

Just for fun I tried to geolocate part of your drive and found you were at Cranbrook Dr and Cranberry Ave in Calgary SE. How ridiculous are the street and road names in that area?!! Crantastic use of "Cran" by the Calgary City Planners. Weird.

[@TeslaCampingCanada]

Haha yes they've completely run out of ideas for names

[@csjrogerson2377]

How very odd, my diesel ICE has no appreciable loss of range in cold weather. I wonder which vehicle I'd prefer?

[@mdaniel444]

You probably want an ev

[@csjrogerson2377]

@@mdaniel444 And you might want a horse and cart, because at the end of the day, we want to make progress. So give me a battery energy density of 5KW/KG and a charging rate of 2.2MW and that will give me a 700 mile range in a small sedan and a 5 minute refill time. Until then EVs can just go and catch fire.

[@8ballphilc]

I can absolutely guarantee that your diesel ICE does have appreciable range loss at these temps.Maybe not as large as 40%, but at least in the 15-20% range minimum.

[@DistantMist]

Finally a video thats actually informative. Thanks!

[@TeslaCampingCanada]

Thanks!

[@nobodynemoq]

great, comprehensive video! A test at -10 degrees would make this quite complete.

[@TeslaCampingCanada]

I did the same drive again at -17c and lost 28% if that helps.

[@nobodynemoq]

@@TeslaCampingCanada Thanks, that's really valuable info! You should add it to the description, too 😊 And 28% does not sound that bad, leaving you with ~300 km range in quite a freezing conditions. Have a nice day! ❤

[@TeslaCampingCanada]

Thanks, good idea, I'll add more new data to the description.

[@ItsGoodToBeliveInJesusChrist]

Bring more statistic with EV parked outside. Then charge and drive. I would love to see that numbers....

[@ronnied1137]

..... yes, and the numbers of $$$ it takes to charge it outside & all night.

[@PaulRubino]

Can you imagine if an ICE experienced a 43% range loss just because it's cold? People would be outraged. These EVs are not read for prime time.

[@wzDH106]

A 20% to 25% drop on fuel economy was normal living in Minnesota. Wasn't uncommon to run errands without ever achieving normal operating temperatures, fuel economy was crap.

[@rayoflight62]

The problem with ICE, they waste two thirds of the energy contained in the gasoline. One third of the energy goes to the wheels; one third to the radiator; one third thru the exhaust. In very low ambient temperature, the ICE just radiate some less heat, therefore the low temperature don't change the range of the car...

[@TeslaCampingCanada]

Another way to think about it: Can you imagine if you couldn't refuel your gas car at home while you sleep, people would be outraged. It's just a different experience, trade some winter range loss for the ability to charge overnight, at home, a hotel, or a campground. Or just while you're eating at a restaurant. You don't have to stand around waiting for it to charge, you plug it in and go do something else. The flexibility of an EV to refuel is one of my favorite things about it. Not to mention the fuel and maintenance savings.

[@JacksonWalter735]

Great and informative video. I live in Texas in the US so I never had to deal with something like this until the past 2 days where it was around 10° and felt like -8 outside. I was surprised with how much extra power these vehicles use when it's cold because my efficiency didn't really go down by much these past 2 years when winter meant 50-60° weather. I still have more than enough range to drive into the city and make it back home , but I wonder how some people do this if they don't have a charger at home where cold winters happen every year. Thankfully I can precondition with my vehicle plugged in but I park my Tesla outside next to the barn because that's where my charger is (I live in an old ranch style house and garages didn't exist back then). Just for fun I tried preconditioning my Tesla without it plugged in and I went from 75% to 67%. I set it to be ready at 5:00am and I think the car started warming up around 4:30am. I would probably lose less power if I had a garage to park my car into if I precondition.

[@TeslaCampingCanada]

Without a garage or at least a charger outside like you, I probably wouldn't buy an EV in this climate yet, unless I could L2 charge at work. Eventually I think there will be L2 chargers everywhere and you could get a charge/warm up somewhere that you are parked anyway during the day. Is your charger a 240V/50A?

[@shahan484]

Are you using Fahrenheit and celcius units combined in your comment?

[@mysticalbeing13]

@@shahan484 He is just using fahrenheit. Winters used to mean 50 or 60 degrees in texas. But because nearly the whole world got blasted with artic air. Even the southern places are below freezing. It's been THAT cold.

[@JacksonWalter735]

@@TeslaCampingCanada I am not sure. I'll have to go outside and check later when I get home or in the morning. I know that the max output is 48A according to the app though

[@JacksonWalter735]

@@shahan484 Nope. All in Fahrenheit. We don't usually have winters in Texas unless you live up north closer to Oklahoma.

[@mikewardrop5962]

How do you calculate a 280 km full range: when you start with 100% charge, drive 96 km and are down to 44% battery? I'd say say you are pretty much screwed at 200 km. or sooner. Especially considering going to 0% is not really desirable at all.

[@TeslaCampingCanada]

I started at 81%. I used the trip's final driving energy consumption, 268Wh/km, as reported by the car to calculate the range based on the 75kWh usable battery. So 75 ÷ 0.268 = 279.9km. You're right, you would want to leave some buffer when it's that cold, so 200km is a realistic range to use before you'd want to charge again. (90% down to 20% for example).

[@alexkalish8288]

The issue is when your battery runs out after a couple hours, if you are on the road, you are going to freeze to death fast.

[@TeslaCampingCanada]

That doesn't make any sense. Why would I let my battery go to 0%? Do you let your fuel tank go to empty?

[@michaelb.8953]

@@TeslaCampingCanada For me to run my cabin heater on my gas car doesn't reduce my driving range. For my gas car to sit parked in a parking lot for almost two hours doesn't drain the equivalent of 1/4 gallon of perfectly good gas out of my gas tank. My gas tank will get me 420 miles if it's 90 degrees F outside or if it's 9 degree F. Your electric car is still using fossil fuel sources. If I pay money to charge my car and it sits for a day or two I'm losing charge and I had to pay money for those ions to just vanish in thin air.

[@sitka49]

@@michaelb.8953 Good question, how are they environmental good when they lose energy just sitting? And now that's a 20% loss of energy that could of been used somewhere else. Add that by the 1000's or 10's thousands,and than millions? ( and you cant change physics) We are certainly are going have to build more wind farms,and solar fields. Lol.

[@zoots15]

Right. How much more drain if you are stuck for an extra hour in traffic @ -29

[@bertblue9683]

He wasn't speculating.

[@kimrnhof107]

how much does a gas car use extra in the winter ?? I never measured it, and now I have an EV - (Audi q4 Etron 40) but live in Denmark which is a cold country to live in, because of the moisture and the wind - so the wind chill factor er is great - but the temperatur is usually only about 0 C or a few minus degrees - and does not effect the EV that much

[@TeslaCampingCanada]

From the US Department of Energy's website: "Fuel economy tests show that, in city driving, a conventional gasoline car's gas mileage is roughly 15% lower at 20°F than it would be at 77°F. It can drop as much as 24% for short (3- to 4-mile) trips." Yikes, sounds like they lose a lot of range too, I had never tested it myself either. 15% loss at 20F, that isn't even cold.. I wonder how much they lose at -30c?

[@mgcarmkm4520]

​@@TeslaCampingCanada Is this the same Dept Of Energy that stated a Tesla had an efficiency of 430 mpg using their 'efficiency multiplier ' when in reality it was discovered to be a more mundane 65 mpg? No better than a PHEV or a good ICE vehicle.

[@angleseyandy9110]

​@@TeslaCampingCanadaonly if you use air con. If you just put the heater blower on it simply circulates warm air which is a by-product of ice engines. It's the air con that does it. I typically get about 65mpg out of my diesel car in both summer and winter, same with the heater on. However if the inside gets damp and requires ac, the drop over my journeys is down to 60, so around 10%. Trips are usually 30 miles averaging 60mph

[@ericfielding2540]

The ICE vehicles need to use engine block heaters to keep the oil from getting too cold when it is -30 C. Even with that heat it will be much less efficient than at warmer temperatures. The EV efficiency loss seems not so different from ICE cars. It has been 30 years since I lived in a very cold climate, though.

[@rewind1960]

Would you buy a gasoline car where if you parked it in the cold you lose 42% of the gas in the tank?

[@wzDH106]

Gas cars usually lose 20% - 25% with city style driving, at least we did in Minnesota. While EVs, unplugged, have a less favorable outcome to the gasoline counterpart, gasoline drivers are making more trips to the gas station in the winter as opposed to summer. AAA has been saying something similar for years.

[@jason1872]

I live in southern Ontario and would love to buy a tesla, but im worried my commute in the winter would be too long for the battery. Roughly 300kms round trip and the vehicle would sit at work for 24hrs while im on shift before heading home the next morning. Seems like I would be cutting it too close

[@TeslaCampingCanada]

Unfortunately that wouldn't work in winter, unless you could plug in at work, even a 20A plug that people would normally plug their block heaters into might be enough.

[@donthompson7889]

You are a firefighter. It is hard to feel sorry for someone who only has to go to work 7 times in 4 weeks and gets to sleep and eat on the municipal taxpayers' dime.

[@jason1872]

@@donthompson7889 ahhh pardon?? We all throw in our own money and one of us grabs groceries before shift and cooks for the crew. Many times the food is eaten cold because we get calls during cooking and respond. We don't have scheduled breaks. Rest when we can. If you call sleeping on a cot while being snapped out of bed multiple times through the night with alarms having no idea if you're going to an infant VSA, house fire, serious car accident, or a simple smoke detector that is malfunctioning SLEEP. Why don't you give it a go? I'm proud of the work I do. The people I have helped and the friendships I've made. Makes the bad days a little less bad. Sorry you feel that way. I also never said I was a fire fighter so you must have a hate on.

[@uf1978]

One day you will realize you been dupped lol. Gas today, gas tomorrow and stress free trips!

[@TeslaCampingCanada]

Sorry to disappoint, but no stress here. There's this cool thing called the electricity grid nowadays.

[@muctop17]

What temperature can you keep inside? I prefer 23 C for driving without a coat 🥹

[@muctop17]

23C plus to be exact

[@TeslaCampingCanada]

About 20C and heated seat.

[@stryngh]

Great comparison, thanks for sharing!

[@TeslaCampingCanada]

Thanks for watching!

[@awsstvawsstv2809]

So glad i found your video very well done. Am debating getting model y too. I live in alberta as well. Just couple of question. 1- so you always must have the car plugged while parked inside the garage. How long it takes to precondition it before you can go for drive in minus 29 degrees? 2- i know since you are from alberta when temperatures dropped to like -40 epcor issued grid warning and we had to use less electricity at home. How did that affect your charging at home? Did the rate of charge increase or did you have to charge it less? 3- How much it cost to install the charger you have at home? I assume its level 2. Any company you recommend to do the installation. Thanks 😊

[@TeslaCampingCanada]

Hi, I'll try to answer: 1) You don't have to always plug it in. Some nights I don't bother plugging it in. You also don't need to precondition, that just makes sense to do though, you click a button on the app on your phone to start warming up the cabin a few minutes before you leave, or have it scheduled, and it warms up the battery too if it's cold. But you can drive with a cold battery if you don't have time to precondition or whatever. You just won't have full regen ability until the battery starts to warm itself up. For short trips it doesn't really make sense to warm the battery up first, it's just a waste of electricity. 2) My car had already charged during the day, then I got the epcor alert on my phone in the evening, so it didn't affect me in any way. I think we got the alert again the next evening, but because it was so cold we hadn't even left the house that day. 3) I haven't had a L2 charger installed. I charge off a regular 120V/15A outlet using the Tesla Mobile Connector. It's slow but enough. As long as the garage isn't below 0C, I get about 20% in the 12-13 hours overnight. It's slower in the winter, but hasn't been a problem yet, since my commute is short. From what I've read, to have a L2 charger properly installed, with permits and stuff, probably looking at ~$1500, and another $1000 if you need a load-shedder, which you need by code if your panel is near capacity. It's not worth it for my needs, at the moment at least. Hope that helps! :)

[@thomasruwart1722]

One thing that would be very helpful is a graph that shows empirical energy loss over a range of temperatures from, say 38°C (100°F) down to -29°C (-20°F). Other factors such as weight, relative wind speed (i.e. are you driving into a 20MPH headwind or have a tail wind or ???), and hills (in bicycle riding it is always uphill and against the wind). It would be interesting to understand how much each of these factors affect each data point so that perhaps the data can be normalised for a more accurate curve. Alternatively, you could ignore all that and just charge early and often😊 Or stay home wrapped up in a blanket binge-watching KZbin Channels like this one😊 Safe travels every one!

[@TeslaCampingCanada]

The nerd in me would like all that data, but I am also lazy, and you're right, you don't need any of that to just drive the car. :)

[@ralanham76]

If you want some nerding out watch a Bjorn Nyland EV video he goes into lots of details and has a spreadsheet with almost every EV.

[@thomasruwart1722]

@@ralanham76 - I'm on it! Thanks for the suggestion!

[@CreRay]

@@ralanham76 I'd recommend checking out the channel Battery Life, he does similar test BUT checks the consumption against the kWh reported by the charger (which are calibrated by law in Germany). Bjørn relies on the reported consumption by the car which I think is not reliable when comparing different cars, the data from Battery Life proves this point.

[@ralanham76]

@@CreRay thanks

[@chriscochrane6319]

I drove from Nelson Bc to Vancouver 650 km in the latest cold snap Temp minus 21 to start minus 33 over the passes in my Tesla 3. I usually get 155 watts/km average but watching the consumption steady state below minus 30 at 90km/hr we were using 297watts/km . As we approached Vancouver the temp rose steadily until at minus 10 we were back to 165 watts/km. I should add due to range anxiety we ran cabin temp at 17 degrees c and even shut off cabin heat prior to getting to the Osoyoos supercharger down to 3 % . I plan to increase roof insulation as well as battery and coolant lines .

[@TeslaCampingCanada]

RWD or AWD, and does yours have the heat pump?

[@onlineoffgrid]

Nice informative video thanks for upload

[@carpediem9944]

Great video! The battery capacity of 75KW is when the battery was new and it's total capacity that was never real world. The real, usable capacity with normal degradation that happens after 6months to 1 year is about 66KW. So roughly 66kw would give you 423km of range for 156Wh/km and 246km of range for 268Wh/km which is less range than presented. But this is still good and if Tesla Superchargers are everywhere amd you can charge at home then no problems.

[@TeslaCampingCanada]

Pretty sure I'm no where near that much degradation, but I'll have to do some testing one day to confirm. But you are right, even with less range, it's not an issue for me, there are fast chargers everywhere now.

[@brianmiller9382]

The current market for EVs is skewed towards higher income drivers for a variety of reasons. Government attempts to force the general public to use EVs in a decade or so will fail for multiple reasons, one of which is that many lower income drivers live in apartment complexes rather than homes with heated garages and easy access home charging, and EVs with cold batteries perform even worse than this video shows. People will absolutely refuse to buy EVs under such circumstances, preferring to purchase used older model ICE vehicles despite all government attempts to force them to go to EVs, which will remain a niche market for high income drivers. EVs still have way too many issues, and poor performance and lousy range in cold weather is just one of those. issues.

[@solentbum]

You are ignoring the advances made in EV engineering in the past 10 years, and the advances in the pipeline. Without Government pressure on Motor Manufacturers over many years they would not have fitted any of the progressive ideas in cars over the past 50+ years. Have you noticed the number of lower priced EVs coming onto the market in the last couple of years as the government deadline comes nearer worldwide.

[@brianmiller9382]

@@solentbum EVs have almost saturated the market they possibly can attain. They cannot lower prices enough to appeal to people in mid America who have cold weather and drive outside the city. Sales will start falling soon, and throwing more taxpayer money at "incentives" isn't going to happen. GM and Ford are beginning to see the light, focusing their EV efforts at "luxury" models and abandoning the foolish idea they can expand the market to lower income drivers. The resistance to bureaucratic overreach and gross wasting of taxpayer money is just starting in middle America. The coastal elites can buy whatever they want, but not on the taxpayers' dime.

[@TeslaCampingCanada]

New technology is always more expensive, and decreases as manufacturering and supply chains mature. So of course the market was skewed towards higher income drivers initially, but that is changing rapidly, check the current price of a Model Y in the USA.

[@whirving]

They've been testing the Cybertruck up here in Fairbanks Alaska. This winter has been particularly cold, we just had a cold snap where it didn't get above -37°C for about two weeks, and dropped down below -40°C on several occasions, even as low as -48°C. Its good to see them testing and continue testing in this environment. Thanks for the good information. My new Chevy 1500 with the 5.3 loses about 17% mpg in these colder temps if that helps to compare. Important to remember that internal combustion cars are at the high end of their development and implementation while viable electric vehicles are not. So being a nay-sayer this early in their development maybe isn't so wise?

[@TeslaCampingCanada]

Very good point about the stages of development between the two technologies. Can't wait to see the Cybertruck down here in Alberta!

[@donthompson7889]

I have no problem with people who want an electric car, and can afford the purchase price without assistance from other people (tax rebates), buying them. I draw the line at a government mandate that forces an expensive and inferior product on me. In Canada, a change in government in the next federal election will solve that issue.

[@TeslaCampingCanada]

Doesn't matter what the Canadian government does though. We're just along for the ride with what the rest of the world does.

[@johnn17golf]

CPC would just lose us 5-10 years against the rest of the world, as happened in Ontario. Then we will tufr P and start again but even further behind.

[@donthompson7889]

@@johnn17golf If EVs were really a beneficial thing, no government mandates would be necessary. There are many major issues that need to be addressed. Refusal to even acknowledge them only makes things worse. 2035 will come and go without EVs being the only choice for new vehicles in Canada. By 2035, nobody will admit to ever voting for the Trudeau Liberals and ICE vehicles will still rule the roads (maybe powered by hydrogen.) You won't be able to give Teslas away. If the race is to nowhere, it is a race worth losing.

[@st.k.4528]

amazing! this is what I needed to know! Spot on, I'm in Ottawa thinking that I need LR!

[@docbrown6550]

Figure in the higher cost of the Insurance, how often the tires need changing, the cost of the car initially, the cost of replacing the battery, the cost of the charging station. These cars are catching on fire a lot also.

[@diamonddust4525]

The insurance was higher on our old ICE car (2007 Hyundai Tucson) compared to the Model 3 that we got, presumably because of the safety features. Tires need changing more often, true. Replacing the battery is an extremely rare event, and you most likely won't have to while you own the car. You'll mostly be charging at home, which is dirt cheap, and charging stations are still cheaper than gas. ICE cars catch on fire more often.

[@docbrown6550]

@@diamonddust4525 The insurance is much higher on EVs and you evidently haven't been keeping up with current events, on EVs catching on fire, not only are there more of them doing it, the cost of containing the burning ones is getting out of hand with the battery issues. My best friend has one and only had about seventy thousand miles on it and had to replace the battery, people in our neck of the woods have cars with over four hundred thousand miles on them, so yes the chances or greatly increased you will change these batteries multiple times.

[@Plumber60423]

Until the amount of ICE cars and electric cars are at 50/50 on the road these figures maybe higher.

[@docbrown6550]

@@Plumber60423 That won't happen for another six decades or more, probably more.

[@hammerfist8763]

Lots of misinfo and fake news. My Model S Insurance (comprehensive) is 75% lower than for a BMW M6 (comparable price and performance). 5 year total cost of ownership for a Model 3 is less than for a Toyota Camry. My Model S tires (same z rated Michelins as on a BMW M6) and brakes (same Brembo high performance brakes as on a Porsche 911) last a lot longer with the regenerative breaking. Tires went 50k miles before replacement, normally those Z rated tires don't even make it 40k. Same brakes and pads 5 years and 60,000 miles later. The battery pack has a 8 year unlimited mile warranty, what ICE engine or transmission does? It costs very little to put up an EV charger vs digging up tons of earth and installing huge underground tanks to hold diesel and gasoline. Ice cars 10x more likely than EV's to catch fire. Hybrids 20x more likely than EV's (DOT stats from multiple countries). Can you do anything besides lie and misinform?

[@JeffDeWitt]

That was interesting but fortunately for me if we even get down to zero here in central North Carolina it's a really big deal, if we got down into the minus double digits the lost of half my Tesla's range would be really far down on my list of things to worry about.

[@stableianF1oracle]

Most EVs catch fire now so that saves on pre heating them lol 😂

[@hammerfist8763]

We have lots of EV's in our parking garage at work and haven't seen one catch fire yet.

[@stableianF1oracle]

@@hammerfist8763 Only takes one and you’ll have no EVs no garage and hopefully a very understanding insurance company.

[@hammerfist8763]

@@stableianF1oracle ICE vehicles are full of flammable liquid and catch fire far more often than EV's as a result, but I've never had such an issue with either one. Do you ever think for yourself or just mindlessly repeat bs?

[@TeslaCampingCanada]

The statistics show EVs are about 1/10 as likely to catch fire as a ICE vehicle. Actually, hybrids are the most likely. Google is your friend.

[@stableianF1oracle]

@@TeslaCampingCanada Great use of statistics just like a politician but you forgot to mention that worldwide there are 20,000 IC cars to every EV on the road. So if there were exactly the same number of EVs as ICs you would have 2000 EV fires to every IC fire. Sorry to destroy your fake argument.

[@timlass6103]

Thank you very much for a practical real-world report on cold weather usage and range for your Tesla. And I appreciate the later UPDATE of similar trips that you posted above. I am not an EV owner but would consider one; and this video would not discourage me. It's about what I would expect. If I got an EV, it would be a Tesla; they are simply the most developed and advanced EVs out there.

[@TeslaCampingCanada]

Thanks for the comment 🙂

[@mattandrufuswilson6586]

Please send this video to every single inept Chicago driver!!!

[@ronroberts110]

I thought the Tesla's can adjust the running of the motor to produce excess heat that can be sent to the battery "cooling" system in order to warn it when needed?

[@TeslaCampingCanada]

Yes, to create heat it purposely runs the motors in an inefficient manner and uses the "waste" heat in combination with the heat pump system to heat the battery/cabin.

[@mikapeltokorpi7671]

200 kWh/km is with warm battery. 270 kWh/km average on back and forth. Cold car with heating the battery consuming 1 111 kWh/km and 402 kWh/km on the road shown in the video are in line with similar tests.

[@TeslaCampingCanada]

Yup, my results seem to be pretty consistent with what other owners get.

[@knutbergan]

Is the additional range loss due to running heater during test or just additional driveline losses due to low temp? It would be great if you repeated test but turned all heating of cabin off. I know that would require some sacrifice, but then one could compare true range loss due to low temp and not range loss due to additional ancillary heating required.

[@TeslaCampingCanada]

That's a good idea, I should do that. If it gets that cold again this winter I will. I know there is some range loss due to the air being denser at colder temps too, I think it's probably a lot of little things that add up.

[@solentbum]

Why run the heating at such a high temperature, I set mine at 17.5, with heated seats it is almost too hot, even in indoor clothing.

[@TeslaCampingCanada]

@@solentbum I guess I don't like the cold.

[@robsin2810]

Who in there right mind, would buy an EV.🤯

[@nobodynemoq]

maybe someone who does experience -29 degrees usually for 1-2 days a year?

[@fnbrowning-Actual]

@@SimulationAdmin And all YOU did was to be a grammar troll who added no value to the discussion either.

[@mattn270]

Do you find that the heat pump is loud within the cabin? And for an extended period of time? Usually set at around 22°c

[@TeslaCampingCanada]

I didn't notice it while driving. It sure got loud when I was charging and had the heat at 26c though.

[@TGBalm-kk6mc]

So no EV for the cold weather areas.

[@maximel.9729]

Oh because you need more than 280km daily ? An EV will be enough for 99% of people on the roads even at -30c.

[@lon6320]

Seriously? So no ICE cars for cold weather...... driving to a gas station with parka and gloves on because it takes longer to heat up the engine block than the drive takes. Every year someone dies from carbon monoxide poisoning because they warm up their cars without taking proper precautions. I leave my ICE parked in these cold conditions. 🥶

[@GOVAUS1]

yea, because Norway is a tropical country. idiota bota

[@thomash7573]

Assuming you charge at home with my electricity rate of 9.6 cents per kWh, that is $3.11 round trip. Maybe $5 max with preheat and preconditioning without having to pull the car out of the garage. Name a single ICE vehicle that can come close to that.

[@plamenkostov1301]

@@thomash7573 Indeed, charing at home makes all the difference and I would say it is a must have while adding comfort and all. Yet to make meaningful savings one needs to be doing a min of 60-70 km/day or more.

[@lenf3641]

I wonder what would be the mileage/gallon for the car using gas compared to these similar temperatures. I would guess the result would be an even bigger gap between them.

[@OldCanadianguy953]

Stick with a gas or diesel car.

[@TeslaCampingCanada]

But then I can't fuel up at home while I sleep. I'd have to go to a gas station? That sound inconvenient.

[@justobserving4862]

@@TeslaCampingCanadalol. As a Canadian I think evs would only work for people that can afford houses with garages. A certain weight class. What do you think.

[@TeslaCampingCanada]

@@justobserving4862 Once there is more public charging infrastructure then an EV will work for anyone.

[@justobserving4862]

I guess so, as incredibly difficult as that sounds. I went snowboarding with my friends last week and as we were filling up I imagined what would have happened if she had an electric car she could afford. would we have made the one way trip with the cold. how long would we have waited to refill. with technology I'm sure these anxieties can be resolved. A Tesla is like 60k hopefully affordable evs begin to move out. and a college student can buy a 5k used ev without fear of a 20k battery replacement. I'll like to jump on the ev bandwagon, maybe I'm being too greedy@@TeslaCampingCanada

[@TeslaCampingCanada]

Some of the ski hills around here have slow chargers in the parking lot. Things like that will become more common. Slow charging at work etc. The ideal time and place to charge is where your car is going to be parked anyways. Eventually EVs will become much more affordable, give it a few more years :)

[@stevest1300]

I did a similar test in my 2004 Toyota Corolla. I started with a full tank of gas, didn't preheat anything and the difference between the runs was hardly calculatable. At $1.41 litre and 4.6 ltrs per 100 kms it cost whatever for the trip. I really don't care enough to do the math. At -28, I can sit in a T-shirt if I want to and run the heat at full blast for the entire trip and not worry about affecting how far I will be able to go. The car cost me $6,500 last year to buy and I can go nearly 700 kms on a tank of evil gasoline although I need to stop to pee a couple of times. I don't have the cost of lunch to add to refuelling costs. And that nasty carbon exhaust drifting through the forests...well, you took Science 7 about photosynthesis didn't y'all. Tires cost as little as $89 each every 80,000 kms or so and a rebuild motor if I choose to replace the original after...oh...let'say, 600,000 kms would be about $4,500. MY battery costs $100 at Walmart or any car parts store in town. I also prefer a bit of smog coming out of an ICE than the smug that comes out of so many EVs. Drive a Tesla for the performance. I would if I could afford it. But no one should ever think they are doing the planet a favour by driving an EV. Just drive a small ICE. It's easy. Leave your ego and small pecker syndrome at the door of the car stealership and step awy from the pickups, bloated SUVs and hemi options. Just drive something sensible. Great video. Straight up fact with no apologies or blame.

[@isaachunt5799]

and your toyota corolla will possibly last for 50 years. the vloggers pos electric car will be in the scrap yard once over 8 years old

[@TeslaCampingCanada]

The warranty is 8 years...

[@colinaldridge259]

I still won't buy an EV. They are not good enough.

[@jimf4748]

In what way are they not good enough? I've owned over 30 petrol and diesels cars and have had two EV's and they have, without doubt, been the best cars I've had.Have you had much EV experience.

[@colinaldridge259]

I test drove a Tesla Model Y. The EV part was OK, but only that, just ok. The rest of the car was so flawed that there's no way I'd purchase one. We bought a premium ICE engined vehicle, and I'm glad I did. It's streets ahead of the Tesla.

[@jimf4748]

@@colinaldridge259 I've no experience of Tesla but I love my BMW EV. The build quality and equipment levels are outstanding and it is superb to drive. I don't see me ever going down the Tesla route.

[@liveworkplaywilderness1877]

After driving gas and diesel over 40 years I bought a Model three.so far seventy thousand k zero issues,

[@pcpwcail]

Chevy bolt 228000 k no issues in bc cold weather conditions no problem 😊

[@Skyprince27]

I find if your trip is relying on mostly Supercharger charge, you will pay about the same per kilometre as gas, starting at about -6C, and more than gas below that. Teslas are not for long trips in Canadian winters. 😕

[@techow]

Great breakdown, thanks for the info

[@TeslaCampingCanada]

You're welcome

[@stevenpatriquin3188]

started with a warm car so its not a true test result,can you leave the car outside overnight in that temp and retest

[@TeslaCampingCanada]

You would use more energy to get things warmed up at first. But the energy consumption while driving would be the same. So just add on some extra usage up front if the car is cold.

[@mistycat1954]

Pre heating the garage should be factored into the cost because it cost you to warm up the garage, so could you tell us how much it cost to warm up the garage please .

[@TeslaCampingCanada]

The garage is not heated. It's an attached garage, so it gets some heat from the shared wall of the house though.

[@rosaluks644]

A much needed video, thanks!

[@coldeadhands]

Has anyone bothered to measure the intensity of the electro magnetic field in these cars?? Didn't think so

[@wzDH106]

I haven't, but I have a fantastic tin foil hat available.

[@carlosorff]

Do you always drive with a beanie in the winter and the temperature set at 20C? Just asking as those temperatures are too cold for me. I sometimes during the winter drive with 24 or 25C,most of the time at 24 in a t-shirt. How is the battery consumption if the heating is set to higher temperatures?

[@TeslaCampingCanada]

Doesn't seem like much point taking off my jacket and toque when it's -30C and will be getting out of the car in just 30 minutes. It's how I drove in an ICE car too. My old ICE car wouldn't even have warmed up until 10-15 minutes into the trip. Not sure about consumption, have never set it that high, but it's pretty negligible, since the heat pump is so efficient.

[@mauricedegroff5669]

It’ll really help if the battery is significantly improved in future cars they’re talking about 600 to 750 mile max range and a 10 minute charge. I hope that’s not a dream because that would be great. I think it can happen probably well with the new salt solid batteries are talking about, but it’s worth waiting a little bit to see if they do improve

[@christopherhaak9824]

Battery charging is effectively a chemical change / reaction. You are dreaming if you think you can change the kinetics that much.

[@TeslaCampingCanada]

I wouldn't pay more for faster charging even if it was possible. My car chargers fast enough already. I need to go use the washroom and grab and snack and stretch my legs when I stop, and my car is ready when I'm done. Plus the majority of my charging is slow charging overnight anyways.

[@sdavidleigh6642]

46% reduction. Good to know.

[@gregoswald7723]

DO the same test, parking for 8 hours, like you are going to work for the day. At -30C a lot of the battery power will be used keeping the battery warm. In 2 hours the residual heat of the battery would minimize the heating required. I had a Diesel VW back in the 80's, in Minnesota. At -30C I had to start my car every two hours (on work breaks) and let it run for 15 minutes, to ensure it would start when I wanted to go home at night. I plugged in a block heater at home so it would be ready for the morning. I would like to see one more test. Park a fully charged Tesla outside at -30C, leave it unplugged, and see how long it will last before the battery is down to say 10%. Enough to limp to a charging station?

[@TeslaCampingCanada]

Saw a guy on Twitter leave his car outside unplugged for 12 hours overnight and it got down to -40, he lost 4%.

[@-2u2]

I will stick with an internal combustion engine; after 500 miles, I just need to fill the tank and continue my trip. But thanks for your information; it was very informative.

[@TeslaCampingCanada]

You don't stop to use the washroom or eat for 500 miles?

[@-2u2]

No @@TeslaCampingCanada

[@TeslaCampingCanada]

That's impressive. I don't think I've ever driven that far in my life without stopping at least once.

[@rolandgelinas1412]

So stay plugged in as long as possible. What would the cost of charging be on the road?

[@TeslaCampingCanada]

Tesla Superchargers are 4x the cost compared to what I pay at home. There are cheaper non-tesla options. Ideally you want slow charge as much as possible, since that is much cheaper. Many hotels have free slow chargers now. Get a full charge overnight. A good chunk of my charging on the road is at campgrounds.

[@jhansen2649]

How warm in the car?. Not heating car to 18 c?

[@TeslaCampingCanada]

about 20c and using heated seat.

[@basspig]

It takes a good insurance policy to park a Tesla inside your home garage.

[@TeslaCampingCanada]

Might want to do some more research.

[@georgetsokanis3542]

Poll. How many people would buy an Apple 16 if it cost 50% more and also less capable than your Apple 15?

[@TeslaCampingCanada]

Range is only one metric. And losing 50% range during the 8 or 9 days we actually had really cold weather this winter did not affected my life in any way.

[@chriscochrane6319]

MIine is 2021 AWD not sure but I do not think it has the heat pump

[@TeslaCampingCanada]

Ok thanks, looks like Model 3s have had the heat pump since October 2020.

[@lanceguilin]

@TCC, how much do you pay per kilowatt hr to charge? Home charging and pre-conditioning is all fine if your electricity rate is relatively low but when one's electricity rate is high than all the wasted use of extra electricity just to warm up/pre-condition the battery is a real added cost over time. I guess electricity rates in Alberta is relatively cheap?

[@TeslaCampingCanada]

I pay C$0.14/kWh at home. So about 10 cents US.

[@lanceguilin]

@@TeslaCampingCanada That's a very reasonable rate. Where I am in CA, the latest price increase brings the standard rate up to 42 cents / kWh baseline then 53 cents if you go over baseline, which 100% you would if you're charging EVs. The electricity rates here are absolutely crazy.

[@TeslaCampingCanada]

@@lanceguilin that's insane!

[@lanceguilin]

@@TeslaCampingCanada I have a Model Y as well as a Rivian R1S. I'm not anti EV. But this is absolutely NOT sustainable. It's a pipe dream for CAL to think that every one will go EV by 2035. By 2035, electricity rates will be $1.50 - $2.00 / kWh.. mark my words..

[@beltrams]

​@@lanceguilinas a Model Y owner in Massachusetts with a farm, 2nd home in far northern Maine, I somewhat agree with you. Technology is one thing, but I suspect that I will still treasure my woodstoves, especially the cookstove one at the Maine house, along the latter's woodlot.

[@BobbieGWhiz]

Sorry, did you mention which battery chemistry was used?

[@TeslaCampingCanada]

I did not, it is a Dual Motor Long Range Model Y which uses NMC chemistry.

[@Contradel]

@@TeslaCampingCanada Thanks for the video, like the format. Straight to the point. As I understand from layman research - NMC battery is more energy dense than LFP but NMC is more sensitive to cold weather, like -30C. Would be really interesting to see similar test with Tesla (preferably same Model Y as yours) with LFP.

[@TeslaCampingCanada]

@@Contradel Yup, that's what I understand too. The other difference though is Tesla only uses LFP batteries in the single motor RWD cars, while NMC are in the dual motor AWD, and since Tesla uses the motor stators as heaters for the car, only having one motor in the RWD limits how much heat the car can generate. So preconditioning the battery in extreme cold could be more challenging, in theory..

[@normanwells2755]

By far the best video or article I have seen on winter vs shoulder season energy consumption. Some vehicles would be better, some worse. But this is a good starting point for reference. Stoney Trail (?) is a good choice becasue you can expect to be able to maintain a simlar speed for both trips.

[@TeslaCampingCanada]

Ya traffic is always light on the west side of Stoney so every drive is near identical.

[@barry1122]

Is it not going backwards when Canadians cant use the heat in thier cars??

[@TeslaCampingCanada]

Why can't you use the heat?

[@isaachunt5799]

@@TeslaCampingCanada kills the range ofc. in a proper car the heat is free.

[@TeslaCampingCanada]

Actually, the cabin heat doesn't use a crazy amount of energy. At -38c driving on the highway, about 1/5 of my energy used is for cabin heat, I think that's pretty good considering how cold that is. Heat is free in an ICE vehicle because at all times, even in summer, about 70% of the gas is wasted as heat energy. Better enjoy that free heat in the winter, because it's costing a lot wasted money the rest of the year.

[@tonyp6680]

I may have missed it but was he riding in full comfort with the heater on all the time and normal warm temperature in the cabin?

[@TeslaCampingCanada]

Ya I had it set to about 20c and heated seat on.

[@kullatnunu2087]

3:16 What you measured is exactly due to the higher air resistance at that temperature. You can be certain that an ICE car has at least the same losses, as it has to travel through the same air.

[@dhroman4564]

You started from a garage, heated or not the battery was significantly warmer than outside. My bet is if you were starting from ambient temperature you would not have made it.

[@TeslaCampingCanada]

Oh, it would have taken the other 63% of my battery to.... do what exactly?

[@dhroman4564]

Cold soak the car outside at those temps and your range would be very much different.For the people without a garage to charge in, it would give a better real world idea of what cold temps do to range. @@TeslaCampingCanada

[@markchester7584]

There looks to be a cover on the car in the garage. Bet that’s not cheap. How much of your time for the preheat and multiply that by an hourly rate.

[@TeslaCampingCanada]

A cover? I'm not sure what you mean, but it's just parked in the garage and plugged into the charger. It took 5 minutes to warm the cabin from -3c to +20c.

[@calvingladue4470]

Plug it outside minus 31 weathe n see how long it take the battery

[@aravindhravi2307]

Such a nice video btw what is the camera gear used here

[@TeslaCampingCanada]

Thanks, it's jsut a Gopro Hero 7 black.

[@chrisbate9956]

Is it legal to operate the screen while driving where you are? That sure was cold.

[@TeslaCampingCanada]

It's a grey area as far as I understand. Really comes down to if the officer thinks you are distracted or not. Many things can be done with voice commands, so you don't need to touch the screen much while driving, and when you do, it's really no different than touching a physical button imo.

[@jimwilliams4003]

what happens when you get stuck in a white out for 4 hrs

[@TeslaCampingCanada]

I'd sit and watch Netflix in my warm car.

[@rmcgraw7943]

Can you equivocate these numbers to $ on your electricity bill, then correlate that to the price of gasoline?

[@TeslaCampingCanada]

Most of the year it is about 1/4 the price of gas for me. If it's -30c then it's 1/2 the price of gas.

[@AlexeyShevchenko]

good stuff. Thanks for a short video.

[@TeslaCampingCanada]

Thanks for watching

[@isaachunt5799]

same with our leaf. we loose 50% range when that cold. we bought a cheap ice car for long winter journeys

[@dixonpinfold2582]

While the car was off for two hours was the drop in the indicated charge entirely 'real,' reflecting an actual loss in energy, or do you pretty much get that back once you're on your way again and the battery warms up? In other words, once you resume your trip would you notice a markedly slower drawdown over the period up to maximum warming? Or to put it yet another way, had you returned to the car and, finding it down 2%, just moved it inside to a heated garage, would the 2% have been restored simply by right of returning to a warm temperature? (I do realize that the car was using some energy while you were gone, but let's set that aside for the purpose of considering, isolated from all other factors, the effect of chilling/re-warming alone.) Lastly, thanks for making this concise and considerately respecting our time. Priceless.👍

[@TeslaCampingCanada]

I understand what you're saying. Unfortunately I didn't check the consumption>park data at time which would have given you the answer I think, oops. But, If you look @1:42 beside the battery icon, a blue snowflake shows up for a few seconds. I believe that means it has reduced power, and "missing" capacity due to being cold, which it would "get back" like you say, as it warmed up while driving. But since it only flashed for a few seconds, I don't think it was a significant amount of the 2% used. I find when parking, regardless of sentry being on or off, it uses more energy initially, then less as time goes by. Hope that helps! *Edit* actually now that I think about it, I guess the missing capacity from being cold probably isn't reflected in the percentage shown. On the mobile app, it shows a blue line on the battery when it's cold which represents the missing capacity. So I guess the car did actually use that all of that 2%.

[@matthtang]

You’re wearing a winter hat inside your car after the trip. What is the cabin heat set to? I assume the range would be significantly less if it’s set to 70-72.

[@TeslaCampingCanada]

Always just keep my hat on in winter haha. It was set to about 20c/68f for most of the drive, with heated seat. Cabin heat doesn't actually use that much energy, the heat pump system is quite efficient.

[@maxpayne7419]

What if your Tesla was parked outside over night?

[@michaelkeudel8770]

Law of thermodynamics, physics at play here. Your going to get different results/calculations based on temperature. Not like - degree temperature is the norm everywhere in the world, at the same time. Solid state batteries should fare better in the cold since they don't have liquid to expand and contract through thermal cycling. Where we are today is NOT where we will be in 10 years from now, solid state is coming in about 18 months, production facilities are being built. But what we do have today is more than good enough for 95% of the population to start the transition, moneys already been provided by the infrastructure bill to build out the charging network. Took 10 years to transition from horse to car as the primary means of transportation, they had the same growing pains back then, no where to get gas, no roads. And it puts us on the path to energy independence, and takes away OPEC's ability to control OUR energy costs. All jobs designing our infrastructure, building it, and maintaining it stays here, you can't phone it in. Transitions are disruptive, and can make you feel uneasy, but you need to look at the end goal/results your looking for, and just push through it.

[@TeslaCampingCanada]

You'll burn a few more percent warming the battery/car. This guy left his car out overnight in -40c, he lost a few percent, but had sentry mode on too, and then warmed it to +20c which used another 5% battery. twitter.com/BruceTheModel3/status/1746574397136359457

[@seaplaneguy1]

A density increase in the air from 4 C to -29 C would cause around a 5% drop in w-h/km. The rest is thermal and drive loads. The rolling resistance increase some...maybe 5-10%. Thermal is likely 34%, air 5%, road 5%, warmup 2% for a total of 46%. I have a computer model of cars that estimates for these factors. Hope that helps.

[@TeslaCampingCanada]

Cool that is interesting, thanks!

[@petersack5074]

Your in Calgary, somewhere..

[@TeslaCampingCanada]

Indeed I am...

[@sailboatbob3969]

how many winter miles can you get on a 5 yr old car? Hybrid is the way to go if you have to lean towards electric. charge it at home, or don't when battery low, engine kicks on. and you still can do a 10 min stop at the gas station. couldn't give me a Tesla

[@TeslaCampingCanada]

A 5 year old battery might have degraded 10-15% or so depends how many miles are on it, and how it's been charged. It levels off and doesn't degrade much after the first 10%.

[@wrxs1781]

I am very happy you enjoy your Tesla, and also your math exercise to calculate whether you can get home or not on battery power. I personally living in the north will never buy one.

[@TeslaCampingCanada]

Math was just for the video.. car tells you very accurately what percent you will arrive at your destination with. There's really nothing to think about. That would have been about a 5 second video though.

[@TheTruthMatters.]

What model is this? I guess model Y has a heat pump which saves battery range.

[@TeslaCampingCanada]

Model Y AWD LR which has a heat pump system yes.

[@evanmartin8199]

268 Wh/km is really measly if you divide the top and bottom of those units by 1000.

[@oldguy7402]

Did you use the cabin heater for the trips?

[@TeslaCampingCanada]

Yes, you can see on the screen it's set to 20C(68F). Plus heated seat and steering wheel.

[@skirolf]

How much energyloss is due to cabinheater? Does this number comply with your range loss of 46%?

[@TeslaCampingCanada]

I guess I forgot to include that. The first leg of the trip which used 14% battery, 2.7% of the battery was used to heat the cabin. So 1/5 of the energy used was for cabin heating. Looks like I didn't record that data for the return trip, oops! So, that's 2.025kWh used for cabin heating on the 48km which is 44Wh/km, and if we assume the same usage on the trip home, (it actually would have been a little more since starting from parked outside) that accounts for 39% of my range loss compared to the drive at +4c. (Just looking at the driving consumption range loss of 42%, not the 46% which included the parked time.) Anyways, hope that helps and wasn't too confusing to follow. :)

[@skirolf]

@@TeslaCampingCanada Hello. Myself I drive a M3LR (2020) and I try to compare your numbers with the consumption of my car. I will look further into the numbers. If I drive without heat at all in cold temperatures here I Norway (this year down to -22) will the consumption be the same as in warmer temperatures? I will try to do this comparison later and based on your numbers. People’s complaints on the W/km on EVs forget that EVs have an efficiency of around 90% and ICE cars around 30%. In this way ICE cars have “free heating” (70 % loss) while EVs have to use the battery to heat up the cabin. In this way they get poorer consumption in cold climate. Thanks for your response, keep on driving Tesla .

[@TeslaCampingCanada]

So based on my math you would still lose about 25% range at -29c vs +4c with no cabin heat, let me know the results if you do a test!

[@skirolf]

@@TeslaCampingCanada yes I will inform you, next week after I have compared with my car. Have a nice weekend

[@dixonpinfold2582]

@@TeslaCampingCanada Thanks for not saying "based off" or "based off of."😄

[@MarkusSchleewand]

A few days ago I preconditioned the car and started driving with 92%. Five minutes later it dropped to 85%, but seemed to have settled after that. It was fairly cold, around -10C. Is that big dropoff at the beginning of the trip normal?

[@TeslaCampingCanada]

That does seem like a lot to me. In my superchargering video, it was going all out preconditioning my battery from the start of the trip, and it used 11% doing that during my 50 minute drive. So I don't see where your 7% could go in 5 minutes. Maybe the BMS wasn't calibrating the cells properly? What car do you have?

[@MarkusSchleewand]

@@TeslaCampingCanada Hey, thanks for the reply! I have a 2022 MY LR. Maybe I should let the battery drain a lot to calibrate the bms? I hardly ever let it go under 30%...

[@TeslaCampingCanada]

@@MarkusSchleewand Ok, we have the same car. I also rarely go below 30% or above 85%. I thought if your car was RWD with an LFP battery the bms calibration/cell re-balancing might be the culprit, but I would think that is less likely with an NMC battery, but could be worth a try. Unless it happens again I probably wouldn't worry about it though.

[@MarkusSchleewand]

​@@TeslaCampingCanada Yeah I'll try to run it under 10% and see if that helps. Thanks again!

[@TeslaCampingCanada]

@@MarkusSchleewand No problem, I think you're supposed to take it under 10%, let it sit for a while, then charge to all the way 100% (then of course use it right away so it's not sitting at 100% for long) Try these instructions: help.tessie.com/article/78-calibrating-the-battery-management-system

[@skrame01]

How much difference does using heat make?

[@TeslaCampingCanada]

At -38°C 15.5% of my energy consumption while driving was used for climate. Another recent drive at -7°C it was only 3%. I don't think the heated seats are included in the 'climate' category in the energy consumption screen though. I think they are included in the 'everything else' category, so I can't break that out individually, but it's minimal. For example during the -38°C drive, even including all of 'everything else' would only push that up from 15.5% to 18.5% of energy used. Hope that helps.

[@hammerfist8763]

Yes, this is in line with my experience driving a Model S for 4 years in North Dakota. Can lose 30-50% range dirving around -20 F, the higher losses happened when driving into strong headwinds. EV's need more range. If you're getting one, especially anyplace that gets cold, make sure to get the long range model (like I did).

[@TeslaCampingCanada]

Yes wind and road surface conditions play a big role in range.