Tesla Semi: Was I wrong? (Responding to you.) | Auto Expert John Cadogan

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[@mikldude9376]

You are spot on John , "the rocket messiah" , not releasing actual weight figures for his ev truck speaks volumes.

[@pete_lind]

Just going from Tesla S model 100 kWh battery , its over 500 kg/ 1200 pounds , Tesla semi has 900 kWh battery , thats 5 ton battery . Semi truck tractor is 10 tons/20k pounds , take away 500 - 1000kg engine and same in fuel, put in 5 ton battery , you lose at least 3-4 tons from your load, Also its hard to replace axles with individual wheel motors when you need to handle heavy load, you wont save any weight in that.

[@Ugly_German_Truths]

Not that Muxx giving out data would change a lot as he's notoriously overpromissing and underdelivering with his Companies (with maybe the exception of the Falcon Rockets since Heavy got through the tests in 2018 i think...) ... better to ask for forgiveness later than to actually admit how bad it is from the beginning on, eh? And if you look closely at his production, HE is one of the biggest problems with his idiotic Mary Coto philosophy of "no part is the best part"*, which drives up development and test times ridiculously and often requires an expensive backpaddeling later to still develop a conventional system from scratch after you had to confess that you'll never get the "partless" system working... see Orbital Launch Mount that then got the steel water deluge plate... (which was always planned but would have pushed launching back 3 months or so to be installed, which ooops... would have seen the first test be practically at the date of the second flight or a tiny bit before that... With Tesla it was also other things, like adding almost 12 months to delivery of the first Roadster only because he insisted on including Carbonfiber parts that they couldn't even make when he decided they had to be put into the design... And Plaid now eats tires almost 4-5 times faster than conventional cars... great. And then there is "Elon time".. like the factor of 2.6 you need to multiply any delivery date by when he promisses a new product. if he says 1 year, expect almost 3, if he says 2, keep 5 in mind etc... His 10 years to a Mars Colony sound already like 25 to 30... 13 or 14 are gone without even an prototype flying without RUD event... Ultimately it might just be his frozen head that flies, Walt Disney style ;) Has anybody seen his FSD at work? ;) it seems doomed to die a slow & sxilent death after it has failed for so many years without visible improvements, and again Elon is at fault for hating how the visual sensors look, so they could only use ultrasonic ones and now the car is mostly blind. Very predictable... and right on brand. *) Philosophically that is not a bad idea and if you have the time and ressources to develop such a system, that works with less parts, without your RnD having to disrupt the production lines, it's great... but if you start with no idea how to do it and have to go from scratch to find a way to make a product work with less parts, it will increase your development time enormously and in the case of their incremental test/destructive testing program will add many unnecessary failed prototypes to the effort. If he wanted to sell products, he would have first made the "unnecessary poarts" as the industry standard goes and paid for a massive RnD in the background that works on the production models to try and eliminate components, making that work flawlessly before it's rolled out. You get a "facelift" model refresh every 2-5 years anyway in the industry, so offering the new working solution then would be pretty easy. While you already roll out hundreds of thousands of "well enough" cars with the slightly more complicated mechanics... cars that pay for all your infrastructure and RnD...

[@DM-xe7pk]

Well done John, people are not looking at the big picture, neither are the media and government.

[@penponds]

Funny thing is, the advocates are not looking at EITHER the big picture or the Devil on the detail. They’re looking at burnishing their woke self-images!

[@eddiel1538]

Hi I don't think you understand concept of government and media. Governments don't push EV doctrine the super rich people who invested money in to this technology do, and they also own media and politicians puppets. Welcom to the planet Earth my friend.

[@alanthom4641]

It does not amaze me anymore that there are such idiots out there. As my dear old pappy used to say "a sucker is born every minute."

[@richardmoore4593]

I am with you John, EV’s have so much further to come especially for outback or long haul trucking

[@teslatrucker]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/pnLReJJpiN2ef8U

[@teslatrucker]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/pnLReJJpiN2ef8U

[@markthomas7279]

Yeah. It's just not suited for the outback. But anything on the coast is good. So don't be a feckin tw@

[@richardmoore4593]

@@markthomas7279 ah that’s good. As long as we sit by the coast then. And we don’t use coal fired power for the 10mw/h charges that aren’t built yet.

[@alanrickett2537]

And no one disagrees that 2 drivers long haul trucking is not going electric in the next year but that's a very small section of the world market.

[@interdiction2]

The only way to make it feasible for your Straylian journeys would be to have a relay station halfway, like the Pony Express idea. Swap the tractor unit and use a freshly charged one. Only minor drawback is that you need double the tractor units. One other question I have is, having seen some of the Tesla car fires, how long and how damaging would a Tesla truck fire be in view of the HUGE battery? I think that's another thing that needs to be taken into consideration too.

[@drumphil00]

Or just swap the battery for a fresh one. I'll be curious to see if that's how things end up working.

[@rorywilliams5131]

Unless you have two drivers I suspect the battery will last as long as the driver can legally drive. So long as it is possible to have high power charging stations every 500 miles across the nullabor then charging can correspond to the rest stops?

[@hefinhughes7263]

I saw a convincing video which made the argument that CO2 I'd only a minor global warming item and I also once interviewed David Bellamy who was blocked by the BBC for arguing that the whole thing is cyclical but since they have millions of pounds if their pension funds invested in Di called green technology they did not want hus views published despite his quite extensive qualifications in the field. Besides the government's of all modern deimcracies know that it's much easier to control the public bus electricity then by Oil especially with the much vaunted smart meters I truly believe that they're in cahoots with Big Oil un this and that between them they will make up for the revenue lost on fuel.tax but they won't let us know how of course and not just motorists but everyone will be stung you can be sure.

[@severnsea]

"Only minor drawback"? Do you have any idea what those things cost? Then you would have to insure the extra rig, have another driver to move it around and so on, and even look after it in the meantime, unless you're happy to risk leaving it miles from anywhere unattended. You wouldn't even know for days if it was stolen.

[@severnsea]

@@rorywilliams5131 But it isn't possible to have high power charging stations. Those rest stops would need lots of chargers for all the trucks that would be using them, and those high power chargers would need their own mini power station if you had anything more than a handful of them. Just the cost of building those in the middle of nowhere would be ridiculous.

[@markwilkins8314]

The health of Australian truck drivers also at risk, how many pies and how much Coca Cola will be consumed while waiting for the truck to charge

[@grantnorris7890]

None, cos there will be no long haul Truckee in Australia driving it😂

[@annpeerkat2020]

Might give them a chance to sleep with a bit of luck!

[@brianbourke8859]

National Heavy Vehicle Regulator forces them to take rest stops

[@ScottMurrayBestFamilyCars]

@@brianbourke8859 I literally overtook a truck on Melbourne's Eastlink the other day. I looked up at the driver who was sleeping awake, bloodshot eyes, wandering all over the road - proper zombie. The NHVR is as effective as your average garden variety local MP.

[@markwilkins8314]

@@annpeerkat2020 don’t know if I’d want to sleep in it while it’s charging

[@phillipmarnik]

Need a second camera pointed at that bin.

[@rumplestiltskin1]

I'd be curious if the Tesla Semi would actually get the 500 mile range at maximum weight capacity. If the launch truck's trailer volume was full of potato chip packets in cardboard boxes stacked on pallets it wouldn't be anywhere near a full weight load (so range could be significantly lesser if haulage-weight loaded was the maximum allowed). I could see an opportunity though, where they are used for shorter distance haulage of shipping containers from ports to warehouses. Many of these trips are through populated areas and less diesel fumes in city streets is a win. Keep up the good/entertaining work -have been a fan of the channel for many years.

[@silo_fx3182]

The Tesla launch event did repeatedly state that the Semi was at full load capacity. It was a set of concrete median barriers. Interestingly the load was significantly less than an ICE rig could pull 'fully loaded'. So either Elon was lying (not the first time) and the Semi was NOT fully loaded OR it WAS fully loaded and way down on payload. Something like 40+% down. John's estimates are very, very conservative and it seems the reality is not going to be kind for Lord Elon.

[@danieltynan5301]

Lol ..

[@adrianinglis5922]

You are not wrong John. A large number of people have also pointed out the same thing. Musk made the issues obvious bragging about cup holders but deliberately leaving out the vitals like weight.

[@RichardKinch]

You're missing a key advantage to fuel vs battery. The ICE fuel carriage burden effectively is only half of its nominal weight. Why? It all goes out the tailpipe on the trip, and on average the dead load is only half the mass you started with. A pound of battery, on the other hand, is twice the effective weight of a pound of diesel, because you carry it every mile of every trip.

[@ScottMurrayBestFamilyCars]

Oh Richard. Every kilogram of battery that isn't full of charge and being used, becomes dead weight that the rest of the charged battery has to move. The lighter a diesel tank gets (by way of being consumed) that's less diesel the remaining fuel needs to move. Any percentage of discharged battery is literally a burden on the charged battery. It's kinda the same reason an obese person has to work harder to move themselves on a treadmill versus, say, an Ana De Armas.

[@Fanta....]

Interesting point. quite valid.

[@AUmarcus]

I mentioned this yesterday. I'm sure he hasn't missed that aspect either. Charged or discharged an ev battery always weighs the same.

[@trevorparry9978]

Elon knows this, it's 101 when launching a rocket into outer space

[@wandpj]

The weight reduction as the diesel is consumed is not a significant factor. A few hundred kilos average for the trip isn't going to change the comparison.

[@stuartsmith945]

I'm sorry John, but I can't dislike your video. It's spot on. You're not the only KZbinr to come to the same conclusion. The numbers don't lie.

[@tizodd6]

Check out Thunderf00t on yt. He's been debunking Musk's "promises" for years.

[@Balstrome1]

Evblogs and Adam Something as well.

[@stuartsmith945]

@@tizodd6 already seen it. Thanks.

[@O1OO1O1]

But Elon does.

[@gypsyemperor7535]

@@tizodd6 except thunderfoot lies all the time, his figures in his vid were all lies...

[@MadIIMike]

There's one thing you overlooked: The charging times on long hauls. With two drivers on a diesel Truck, you'd switch drivers and keep the thing going. Even with two drivers on a E-Truck, they'd have to charge. The charge time reduces the average speed, thus increasing the time of the job = the time your drivers are on the clock. And thats not even starting to go into the logistical issues of having charging stations on the way and arriving on time. Many businesses need their deliveries on time with no wiggle room. A Bakery can't just start 2-3 hours later, because their potential customers would have had their breakfast by the time they have the wares out. A Supermarket can't just stock their wares when they are already open. (Well, they can, but it would be absolute chaos) Meaning the increased delivery time would trickle down to the source and a lot of industries would not be happy about having to adjust their logistics because deliveries now take X% longer. And that's not even considering time sensitive wares like animals... and how would they cool things? By the way: How would they build their beloved wind turbines or other oversized cargo? Will they leave their super heavy trailers somewhere and switch trucks, because they can't enter the charging stations?

[@sahhull]

Truck deliveries in the UK have a 15 minute window. Early they are told to park up until the company is ready. Late, they can be simply turned away, load rejected.

[@duckmcf]

I see what you did there John. I noticed that you didn’t mention removing the ICE, etc., and I nearly fell for asking why, but in the end I guessed, correctly as it turned out, that it probably wouldn’t significantly change the point of your presentation. What I didn’t realise yesterday is that not mentioning the ICE etc., was part of your cunning plan to generate -ve engagements by trolling the fanboys, and then whacking them again today. Well played JC, we’ll played.

[@meelis79]

Probably wants more clicks and fame, that's why he "forgot"

[@randallsmith7885]

Believe you cracked the code.

[@morri03]

@@meelis79yes most likely. I understand he didn’t forget but unfortunately not acknowledging it allows the ill informed to just dismiss everything else in John’s argument.

[@teslatrucker]

@@morri03 I'm My PO l ... To

[@smerkutube]

We'll played?

[@alphaomega5721]

JC, this isn't a case of you being wrong, right, or somewhere in between. This is a case of follow the maths and physics, review the resultant facts and draw the logical conclusions. Physics doesn't give a sh!t about anyone's feelings. Your conclusions are spot on. Mechanical, light current electronics and IT engineer here. I don't like or dislike your videos; I watch them for the facts, logical conclusions and resultant discussions. Oh, and the ming molls.... And a cursory reading of the comments section of KZbin is a great indicator as to why democracy is such a bad idea. People have been fooled into believing that being entitled to their own opinions extends to being entitled to their own facts.

[@wandpj]

In the absence of facts, one must make informed speculations. Some speculations are less informed than others.

[@stephenw2992]

Dont forget that some comments are just there to troll or shitpost, so arent a real indicator of peoples IQ. The fact John responds to them is even more incentive to post something silly

[@clives4501]

Well alpha omega, you make some good points. Permit me to introduce some facts re. another product, which has been widely hyped in the complete absence of facts. In place of facts, falsehoods have been peddled and swallowed by a gullible public. You be the judge after following the video link. Either way I think you will find it interesting. kzbin.info/www/bejne/Y362fK2lfpxlm7c&pp=wgIGCgQQAhgB

[@seaplaneguy1]

You NAILED it! Yes, they don't tell people the weight because they have junk. They don't tell you what the electricity will cost at 100% RE... 60-90 cents/kwh...like buying Diesel at $22 to $34.2 /gallon (assuming 38 kwh/gallon Diesel) INSANE. With NET at par to EV in efficiency, and RE fuel making at $1.14/gal via NET solar THERMAL, the cost ratios are clear...over 20:1 BTW, the solar PV/wind cost curve is minimum at 4 times more machines than 1x output and 4x in battery storage to not use oil. (see Saba In Rethinking Energy -- 100% Solar, Wind and Batteries Is Just The Beginning for graph at 5:25...I don't agree with him, but that is what Elon thinks...) That means 5 cents/kwh x 4 + 13 cent/kwh battery x 4 = 72 cents/kwh, plus grid lines and management of 15-20 cents/kwh to cover intermittent charges.. Clearly 60-90 cents/kwh is reality if not much more. Coal is 5 cents/kwh wholesale ..These people are corrupt, insane, ignorant or criminally fraudulent. Again, who wants to help me unplug Elon? Looking for engineers...

[@maxheadroom7687]

Love it John! I was somewhat puzzled about the engine/transmission weight as was not aware that most electric vehicles actually weigh more than their IC competitors. Thanks for explaining so comprehensively. Love the work you do mate, all the best. Max.

[@KingBravo-lo3vc]

Today we know the truth. The 500-mile Semi weighs 26,000 pounds. The 300-mile version weighs 20,500. So John was about double. And there are Diesels that weigh 26,000 pounds now.

[@thetowndrunk988]

@@KingBravo-lo3vcWhat diesel semi, short of a full custom sleeper setup, weighs 26,000 pounds with a standard 3 axle? Way off the mark there, amigo.

[@KingBravo-lo3vc]

@@thetowndrunk988 There are most certainly cabs without a sleeper for sale today at 25,000 pounds and you get 2000 more pounds of weight for your load if it is a battery powered one.

[@KingBravo-lo3vc]

@@thetowndrunk988 But this was a while ago. Now we know that the Tesla Semi is going on 1800-mile trips in two days for Pepsi carrying a full load of Pepsi, not chips. Tesla underpromised and goes further on a charge than advertised.

[@thetowndrunk988]

@@KingBravo-lo3vc Speak a few. Having spent over 30 years owning a small fleet of semis, and driving myself, I’m extraordinarily curious of exactly what trucks are anywhere close to that heavy….

[@darryljacobsen19]

I agree with a lot of the stuff you entertain us with! I also love the look of all your brand new unused tool on the wall. The way you use large print notes warms my heart. As a person with low vision I have always done this. John is fair dimkum .

[@tizodd6]

I honestly can't tell if this is an insult or a compliment🤣😂

[@Cloxxki]

He only goes for the low hanging fruit though. And in his rebuttal he introduces new wholesale assumptions based on corner cases. My bet is semi will be 3 tons overweight and 900 kg of that it's allowed to tow extra. First million units sold to less than max load long haul hauliers. But the time the next million are up, batteries got better and the semi lighter. A two motor version will do just fine. For many routes, a fraction of the battery suffices. Ask current EV truck owners. Long haul trucking is an artifact of shitty rail infrastructure anyway.

[@acitizen.5276]

Fireball squares look good on set too $$$$$$$

[@johnnypopstar]

@@Cloxxki Why try *so hard* to give a constant lying con-man the benefit of so many doubts?! 😂 The more rational approach to take is that shown in the video. Don't believe too-good-to-be-true-sounding claims until they're demonstrated, and *especially* don't believe them from con artists with proven track records of lying about damn near every goddamn thing they ever say.

[@rogersmith7396]

Its like Australian Home Depot!

[@marcmilne9228]

Another small consideration is that the diesel truck is getting lighter as it travels, an EV battery stays the same weight the last time I checked.

[@occashares]

The truck will become unbalanced as the electrons move from one side of the battery pack to the other.

[@TheOtherNEO]

This is also the same issue brought up for electric aircraft. How much fuel does a jumbo carry? 15 metric tons of fuel? Replace that with 30 tons of batteries that will still weigh 30 tons when you need to land.

[@KrawnKam]

No batteries keep getting better at storage allowing less to be used. Tech is much better than 10 years ago and the rate of innovation is quickening now that the EV race is underway.

[@Motumatai3]

I do love the A4 format John. Entertaining yet concise at the same time. Regarding the E semis longevity I know that its economically justifiable to rebuild an ICE engine and or trans at some stage down the track...but I wonder just what the economics of having an issue with a 5.5 tonne pile of Lithium Ion batteries would be? I know its not economical with the current crop of EV shopping baskets?

[@Motumatai3]

@AutoExpertJC. Yeah, a bit above my pay grade sorry. I should enlist the assistance of a 10 year old to manage my communications😁 Regarding electric prime movers: an acquaintance of mine is a mechanic at the Fontera workshop in Morrinsville, NZ. A couple of years ago this behemoth of a corporation purchased a virtue signalling Electric milk tanker. Its track record to date is noteworthy: Has actually picked up very little milk, is limited to operating very close to home base. Not permitted to go up into the hills as its range vanishes before the drivers eyes, and has consumed the equivalent of THREE conventional milk tanker truck and trailer units just to purchase and maintain.... It breaks down multiple times a....day!!!

[@mnc303]

John, Dont forget most semi trailer trucks that are travelling around Australian streets are not carrying maximum weight but instead are carrying maximum volume. Think of all the trucks carrying those large Amazon boxes with only very small lightweight items inside. 😉

[@michaelzerk9541]

The vast majority of trucking kilometres travelled is at, or close to, full load. The economics wouldn’t work if this wasn’t the case. Delivery trucks in the city are likely different - and an electric drivetrain makes sense - but that’s not representative of heavy freight in Australia. Also, we have a lot of B-double and road train trailer configurations - can’t see those pulled by the Tesla Semi over our freight corridors anytime soon.

[@eyerollthereforeiam1709]

I'm dying to see the specifications for this truck. Any fleet has desk jockeys pouring themselves into the specs looking for the best one. The empty weight is a HUGE deal, I have stories to tell about that. As John says, they are not releasing this info. Pepsico, carrying chips (or crisps, if you prefer) can get away with a heavy tractor because the freight is light weight. But for heavy cargo, that's a different story. I work for a large trucking fleet. One of my jobs is, whenever new trucks or trailers come in, is to weigh a sample of them. For some heavy loads, we're stuck with a combination of tractor A with trailers B or C to carry very heavy load D. It can be arranged, but it's a real headache to plan these loads.

[@peterlattimore6013]

I was one of the 1st to trial the new permits in South Australia. Fun fact was the B triple had 12 axles and only allowed 80 ton while the two B trailer Roadtrain had an 82 ton allowance.

[@alpine0607]

as you said; it may make sense for some companies if they can get away with the drawbacks and not for others… i just hope electric cars/trucks can become a reality at some point so we can save the environment for the next generations but sick and tired to be fooled by a snake oil salesman who keeps lying for the sake of his personal gains, ego and fame and make this dream even harder to achieve because of all the backlash at the end… we need cleaner transportation, we dont need some billionaire steal the spotlight and make it all about himself with smokes and mirrors tactics…

[@bobkats]

Notwithstanding, most interstate trucks, around 42% of trucks on the road are, 26m Bdoubles, at around 62 to 68 Tonne, love to see the Tesla replace these.

[@Equiluxe1]

I suspect that Musk just about gave that truck to Pepsi and they took it for the advertising value.

[@rustymozzy]

@peterlattimore6013 that doesn't seem right. A 2 trailer road train can be 79 under normal rules, or 85 with mass management, adding .5 to the steer with a FUPS and you're getting 85.5. A B triple is 82.5 GCM, up to 91 with Mass Mgmnt and a FUPS. You need to adjust your calculations and loading...

[@johnshort4405]

Hello John, I never thought I’d hear the word “orthogonal” on KZbin. Great stuff! Keep it up!

[@oBCHANo]

Another thing, If you had to refuel 6 trucks per hour and each takes 10 min, you only need one pump, but if it took an hour to refuel then you need 6 pumps. So you're gonna need a whole lot of parking spaces and chargers to replace fuel pumps.

[@xjet]

Another factor is that *regular* fast-charging Li-Ion batteries significantly reduces their lifespan. Most EV cars are charged on a slow-charger for the majority of their charge-cycles but a commercial vehicle such a a semi will almost always be *mega-charged* and that will see a huge reduction in the useful working life of the battery. And a 1MW/H battery is *not* going to be cheap!

[@stevenhosford7724]

Good afternoon John You have mentioned that the payload efficiency is down by about 12.5% on the Tesla Semi. I believe this will be more in a lot of cases as the GCM of the vehicle depends on the axle loading, If the drive and steer axles have an additional 5t before you start then the amount the trailer can carry will be by a lot more then 5t on a fully loaded semi trailer. At the moment the steer axle can carry 6t, the drive axles on a bogie set will be 16.5t, the carrying capacity of each axle is dependent on the tires not the axle as most people think. A standard prime mover GVM is 22.5t with bogie drive axles once the prime movers weight is removed then you have the load carrying capacity of the prime mover this lets you know how much weight you can put on your turntable. The GCM will be lower then 42.5t for a tri axle trailer as the turntable wont be able to carry the load of a full trailer due to the extra load already on the drive and steer axles caused by electrification of the drive line, you cant just add the 5t to the trailer load as the center of mass in the trailer doesn't work like that. (NO emoji added)

[@tomkarlsborn2384]

Thanks JC. I agree with you. It is going to be an expensive exercise to "upgrade" to EV semis, for sure. If the mandate comes, the long range haulers will probably have to go back to the old "Pony Express" way with a fresh, rested and charged unit within range. Swap over and get going again.

[@annpeerkat2020]

Either that or long haul will be on trains for 80% of cases, like it should be. That would of course require rail to be permitted to operate on a level playing field with road.

[@stusue9733]

If the mandate comes in your lifetime you'll have plenty else to worry about I'm guessing.

[@warpedweirdo]

Yeah, that's what I was jokingly thinking yesterday. Insane!

[@artistjoh]

And then we get to the main reason trucking replaced horses very fast (and no, it wasn't the increased speed) it was the high cost per ton drawn of horse drawn freight compared to the cost per ton of trucking. Keeping all those fresh and charged prime movers would cost a fortune. Plus I cannot imagine truckies liking having to move all their personal gear from vehicle to vehicle every 500 km or so, especially the owner operators who tend to equip their rig with a few extras for comfort.

[@jebw]

@@artistjoh Office workers who have a hot desk arrangement know all about packing up each day and finding another desk the next. Time for truck drivers to suffer the same.

[@martinavery3979]

Hi John, I think you have missed two things. Firstly, 15% more trucks also means 15% more insurance. A big cost for transporters. Secondly, with so much additional weight in the truck itself, getting a legally acceptable loading inside the truck might be a problem.

[@avid6186]

Also 15% more wear and tear on the roads. Here (NZ) 15% more road user charges, not cheap, nearly as much as fuel.

[@salem9477]

Tyres will be a big problem. When you have 42tonne and badd ass performance, well you just know tyres are gonna get chewed up very quick, especially on the 45C days

[@Robert-cu9bm]

Onboard scales, new trucks have them now.

[@Robert-cu9bm]

@@avid6186 No difference. 40t is 40t whether it's batteries it's cargo

[@JustIn-mu3nl]

@@Robert-cu9bm But the extra weight is all in the front, the drive tyres are a softer compound to help with steering, an extra 5.5 tonne will make a difference on wear and tear.

[@ozozi49]

I really enjoyed that explanation of the liability of changing batteries.... Worth watch after minute 23. I learnt something, thanks

[@prjndigo]

There's a draw-load cycle most people aren't understanding on the battery systems. I did a work-up on a 100hp tractor being able to do a 16 hour day in the field and it needed a minimum of 19 7600lbs batteries and a truck capable of bringing out a battery and taking one back to charging every 45 minutes as well as the 19 concrete bunkers and 19 chargers you would need to safely charge all these batteries and the whole facility would be drawing up around 1.5MW continuous for most of 24 hours a day in order to keep charging the batteries. _That's for a 100hp tractor_ The battery charge duration in a semi isn't going to be anywhere near what a car's charge duration is simply because there's no way to make the battery big enough to do things like "going uphill both ways". Additionally the amount of braking force that can be provided by regenerative simply isn't enough on a tractor-trailer, they'd have to use interference dynamic braking unless they're going to also drive the trailer axles (which even now would make diesel mechanicals more efficient...)

[@kevincarlisle4953]

John, you are not the Messiah just a 'Very Naughty Boy' for creating all this controversy. Keep up the excellent work and making the youtube videos that make us think outside the box!

[@michaelfagan9620]

Kudos for the Python reference!

[@jandideriksen7847]

The "Messiah" was Elon Musk! His minions see him as a messiah!

[@davidnobular9220]

@@jandideriksen7847 Isn't he Eclectic Jesus ?

[@pacman5590]

Gotta say I love watching your frustrations with people! That pen took a beating! 😂

[@jimmunro4649]

Telling you need more trucks more divers which is a cost OK

[@viatcheslavmoskalenko8164]

Hi John, I'm in logistics and just had a thought experiment (brain fart you can call it), mind you it is 4th beer already so the thinking process is slightly influenced and English is surely not my first language. I would like to continue discussion on the EV Semi topic a little more if you don’t mind. There are 2 aspects from both of your related videos that I’d like to share an opinion on: 1. Truck's capabilities alone may be enough for some to make a business case out of it. Explaining my logic: - Not all rigs are loaded to their max capacity, in fact many loads of goods “linehauled” interstate in AU reach limit of trailer's available volume way sooner before they reach the weight limit. - Truck drivers in AU aren't supposed to do 800km in one go regardless due to COR rules and regulations in a country. Even if we say that an average speed during an SYD to BNE was 80km it would be over 11h of just driving time and to make it legally driver will probably have to do a series of stops on the way. Lets take a scenario where business moves full semi load BNE to SYD and back loading approx 13t per trailer. Due to a lack of data from testing electric trucks on AU roads let me use Tesla's data from US and your calculations on truck's and trailer's key weight perimetres: 19t Truck & trailer, 18t payload - GVM of a loaded truck will lower its max capacity by 5t. This will increase distance most likely to the point to make it between 2 points on one charge - no extra drivers or overheads are needed in this case, the same number of trucks can handle the job in the same timeframe. - maintenance cost is likely to be on par with diesel but will have to spend more on tyres as truck is still heavier on a road compared to diesel, this is likely to be compensated by difference in diesel vs electricity costs - battery range may lower over the time, but can be compensated if charged a little during driver's mandatory break stops - all of the above is of course only working if an entire infrastructure to support all elements of the movement is in place and business uses fastest charging methods available All I'm trying to say is that if we forget about all else and just focus on diesel vs electric, it may make sense to go electric in some cases. 2. Real Life I'm in absolute agreement with you that out of all technologies available to us at the moment, li-ion battery powered trucks do not seem to be the best. And agreed with all of your points: - infrastructure sucks - huge demands on greed if technology goes in masses - there is not enough lithium available to the market already and projection for the trend is to continue - huge masses of vehicles have huge effects on efficiencies, roads and tyres - there are simply no real trucks available yet to even compare real world numbers But there is no other energy source technology for transport getting developed so quickly and so aggressively at the moment around the globe as battery powered one. If the trend is to continue for another 10+ years it is hard to imagine those big players in a market to back off from it unless we (as a whole human race) will be unable to source elements required to support the technology or some other major crap happens. By this I suggest that all of your points are absolutely right but you may want to try a bit harder to find a room in our world for an EV Semi truck and it’s real world application as despite you, I and facts are not agreeing with it, they may still continue building them. 2 more beers down now making it a six pack. First time I’m doing a comment on youtube ever Cheers Slav

[@ChewableMeteor]

Nice one Slav

[@gteea]

As much as I agree about cubic freight not being load restrictive, the agricultural industry is mainly based on gross weight. Take a grain tipper, except for canola, most tippers are bigger than their loads. Cattle are heavy also. Straw and hay may be lighter per permitted load but that's an exception. Around capital cities, evs may be of some benefit but in the bush, diesel will be here for a very long time.

[@AndreAndFriends]

I like your ideas. Can you give us some after 4 bottles of vodkas? It could get much better?

[@AndreAndFriends]

I only got to your 2nd point. And I like your ideas. I had 1 bear. Here are Polish drunk for you. Trains & its locomotives. Here in Poland, they have electric overhead lines. Then they use electric locomotives. No lines, then they use diesel locomotives. That could work?

[@desultorilypanacea]

This truck is a no go in Canada. It has a recommended charge of no more than 80%. That battery will have 20% or more reduction because of winter weather. So the driving range could be reduced to as little as 250 miles. The 300 mile version of the truck could only get 150 miles. Better plan for some very long lunch breaks for charging.

[@coweatsman]

It seems that the weight problem comes down from the energy to run the vehicle having to be on the vehicle. I wonder if there is some way to continuously run the energy into the vehicle as it travels from say overhead wires. It seems electric rail does that very well and with the additional economy of minimal rolling resistance from steel on steel. Seems to have been around for over 100 years already.

[@annpeerkat2020]

trolley bus anyone?

[@Low760]

Too much Common sense to run electric locomotives.

[@occashares]

You will need a supply and return in the overhead cables. Trains have the steel rails for the return thus needing only one overhead conductor. trains also run on tracks so the train is always in the correct position for the overhead conductors. With two overhead conductors positioning is far more critical with respect to the vehicle.

[@rogerpearson9081]

You have said what many are thinking. The fact there is no weighbridge in the PR trip is a deafening silence. And even more drivers required in a driver shortage. Starting to look a bit tired. There are Janus trucks in Oz which use replaceable batteries. How much would the solar system of the size that you quoted cost with panels and an inverter? I'll keep my Road Ranger experience current I think!

[@KingBravo-lo3vc]

Today we know the truth. The 500-mile Semi weighs 26,000 pounds. The 300-mile version weighs 20,500. So John was about double. And there are Diesels that weigh 26,000 pounds now.

[@victorluke5816]

Highly entertaining one. Having the first delivery be to Pepsi which is likely to use them for hauling Fritos makes sense. They can fill up an 18 wheeler configuration completely full without having much weight. Hauling things that are going to take up volume rather than weight are perfect if the Semi is as heavy as you think it is. There are limits to the size of the Tractor Trailer in the US so I don't think that most of the manpower is going to increase that much for the Tesla Semi. Most loads for Semis are not going to be anywhere near the 80K lbs. limit

[@teslatrucker]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/pnLReJJpiN2ef8U

[@nyanbrox5418]

Correct

[@KingBravo-lo3vc]

Today we know the truth. The 500-mile Semi weighs 26,000 pounds. The 300-mile version weighs 20,500. So John was about double. And there are Diesels that weigh 26,000 pounds now.

[@teslatrucker]

@@KingBravo-lo3vc how do you know the actual weight?

[@KingBravo-lo3vc]

@@teslatrucker It was on a spreadsheet drom Tesla.

[@victorpalamar8769]

I agree with you completely! I am retired from the Canadian Coast Gurad and have a good idea of power generation. One of my former co-workers lives on a sailboat when not working and has two 2 meterX3 meter solar panels just to provide the current for his auto-pilot which is necessary if you want to sleep while underway.

[@guymp]

I thought the original video was excellent and well argued. Also, John - have you looked at the new Honda Civic hybrid? I know how you feel about Honda ... But high price not withstanding, the car is incredible. Like seriously good. Have test driven the petrol twice and the hybrid once now and likely to buy. None of the four other cars I've tested can match it in driving feel, cabin experience, spaciousness and general good vibes. It has an x-factor. Interested in your thoughts. (Btw, discovered your channel 5 month ago and it's become my go-to for car industry thoughts. Appreciate the hi quality, free content!)

[@Paulman50]

The trouble is that you'll be trading it in possibly 5 years before it's economicly paid for itself. Very expensive motoring.

[@guymp]

@@Paulman50 I intend to keep whatever I buy for 10 years, as a rule, to mitigate the depreciation. Agree, wouldn't make sense to trade it in after 5 years.

[@warrenjohnknight.9831]

And I absolutely loved it John. Those truck's are a absolutely limited to urban areas.

[@markbeazley3853]

Spitting hot facts as usual John! One issue you may not be aware of here in *copies John's voice* straya, in NSW and possibly more areas I'm unaware of were struggling with a driver shortage. There's way more jobs than drivers right now, so based on your calculations about the amount of extra drivers needed to do the same work I'd say companies aren't gonna be too keen on putting themselves in a position where they need more drivers to do the same work. With the amount of trucks parked up waiting for drivers right now across the industry it's just not feasible, and I can't see the government stepping in anytime soon to help incentivise people into the industry.

[@MacRODesign55]

John, I have to apologise to you. I left you a LIKE. I too am tired of the wash and repeat tripe dished out by EV lovers. EV is not the answer. Especially in Oz. I subscribed yesterday. Love your warts and all approach. Truly refreshing in this plastic vanilla age of KZbin. Onya mate (I too am a mech eng, now retired).

[@sylh8234]

Love your report that you did yesterday, the only thing you forgot was stop and go that that truck will have to do. Hard on fuel hard on energy

[@annpeerkat2020]

yess.... regen braking.

[@bradb4740]

500 miles * ** *** **** No hills, route must be flat. Low to no wind. No stopping. 55 mph max speed.

[@davidradtke160]

@@bradb4740I know the route they used in the video of 500 miles. Driven it a ton of times personally. It’s not flat, you have to go up the grapevine to about 4000 feet above sea level.

[@alistairshanks5099]

@Retired Bore Rivian has been working on a van for Amazon for three years now so they can ditch UPS and they have hit the same brick walls that all the others have when you go past a certain size and carry a load, the battery is too heavy and too big and it reduces payload. How do I know? my son worked on the project. They are waiting for a solid-state battery breakthrough then it will be workable. There are heaps of companies racing to be the first to market with a solid-state battery but those who know say it is still five years away in a best-case scenario.

[@gregbailey45]

@Brad B that's not what the Tesla did in its little 500 mile test. It went over a decent sized hill at one or two stages.

[@martehoudesheldt5885]

i commented on the earlier vid and still agree with a lot of the questions i ask. the one thing i will tell you is the tire lifespan on the drivers will be shit. the super high torque will eat the tread off them and tear the sidewalls apart. we had that problem with 600 hp and drivers with heavy feet. a hole lot of trucks cube out before they hit gross weight. or can't axel right at gross wt. do you think a 53' trailer full of potato chips weights 50k? average semi tractor weight is about 12.5k lbs it will be fun to see what the tesla semi is. less weight longer range. after driving off and on for over 30 years i would like to drive one at 80k over donner just to see what it is like at 60 mph verses 35 mph for ice engine. drive time from reno to sac and back would be a lot less. and i wonder just how good the dynamic braking really is. i still wouldn't drive a skateboard to the east coast from the west. and you are still an infomercial.

[@jmbelarmin]

John, what’s the down time for diesel truck annual service maintenance I.e. cleaning the diesel engine, changing break pads, changing oil, etc? What’s the downtime for an electric semi? I’ll give you a hint-it starts with a z ends with an 0. How much is that savings to you?

[@darrenharvey6084]

How do you get 500 miles of range when the battery is also powering the refrigerated trailer . Do you have a diesel APU for that .

[@grantlouw3182]

Check out Nio EVs with their battery swop stations. I see no reason you couldn’t scale up for truck’s although agreed liability for failure would still be a potential issue.

[@alanrickett2537]

Or Tesla's 5year old swap station.

[@waynehewett4017]

I spose looking at the weight of the tesla semi with all its electrical components You could look at the electrical components of the diesel locomotive I realise that a tesla semi is not a locomotive But it makes you wonder just how heavy the tesla semi unloaded compared to a diesel semi actually really is and why the Musk rat is tight lipped on that releasing all the spes I suggest that tesla semi is quite a bit heavier than its diesel equivalent and the muskrat doesn't like things that don't meet his facts John certainly makes a good point

[@darrellrobertson1695]

How many truck run single trailers? What would be the efficiency towing 3 trailers?

[@severnsea]

Even worse with an EV than with a diesel. Just watch any video about EVs towing trailers or caravans and the like and you'll see that it completely destroys the range.

[@alanslaven5494]

Well said John there is a lot of ground to cover before we head down the electric road, most cannot see it

[@richardpowell1425]

It might be feasible to have a small number of these in a fleet - e.g. charging from a warehouse roof solar array to access cheap power. It depends if there is much PR benefit or government subsidy or both. Swappable battery packs have become available on eBikes - something that was put forward as a desireable capability a while back. That might one day get scaled up to eVs, but like you say this is major undertaking for a frieght truck and is years away even though it has clear benefits if possible. Interesting videos.

[@teslatrucker]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/pnLReJJpiN2ef8U

[@teslatrucker]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/pnLReJJpiN2ef8U

[@nyanbrox5418]

The tesla semi is great, swappable battery packs are not swappable batteries are only reasonable for very small applications like bicycles, the tesla megachargers have faster charging than you can swap the packs

[@goncalovazpinto6261]

Would it not be better to sell the power you generate on your warehouse to the grid or use it in other aspects of the business that are more suited to PV? Like air con for example?

[@smellbag]

I'd be interested in the range variable - stormy, windy, cold overnight shift through hilly terrain requiring fulltime accessory usage of lights, wipers, heater/demister etc ?

[@annpeerkat2020]

I laughed and nearly crapped myself! Do you really think that power consumed by electric headlighs/ spotlights/ heater demister etc is in any way comparable to the power required to move say 30 tonnes? Lets say 750 watts for the accessories, and 400,000 watts for moving the truck.

[@ausdjt]

Good point. Refrigerated truck for example...

[@nettlesoup]

@Retired Bore True. Not to mention that if you have both a refrigeration unit and a semi drive train, those are two ample sources of excess heat that could be scavenged to pump into the cabin. Of course, you'd need to design the appropriate heat exchange connector and get some standard going for it to work with different refrigerated trailers.

[@hi9580]

NIO currently has 1200+ battery swap stations in china. 10,000,000+ battery swaps have been completed, each swap taking under 6 minutes.

[@simoncrooke1644]

Sure, but how difficult will it be to do it with a battery that is 10x as heavy?

[@DazzaJay]

Hey John. The only thing I want to hear more about is Rapid Battery Swapping for EV'S. As there are a few prototypes around, for specific cars in the UK, where you can drive your car into this parking space, and a panel opens up on the ground under the car. A robotic machine grabs, disconnects and removes the battery, replacing it with a fully charged battery, within 3 minutes. Apart from the concerns that the battery you're getting may be of lower quality/more worn out than your existing battery, what other issues do you think this system has, and do you think it could be worth adapting the system to trucks?

[@marktaylor1777]

I would suggest that those transmissions will be turning around 15% of that energy into heat when the truck is being flogged. So probably need a cooling system for the internal oil supply.

[@franciscogodoy9158]

Why would they? Final drives are a very old invention in the world of heavy vehicles. Just a planetary gear train or a combination of those. They don't lose anywhere near that much energy.

[@timothykeith1367]

@@franciscogodoy9158 Toyota claims to have a new electric axle that is 15 to 20 percent more efficient than what Tesla currently has . It's being jointly developed by Denso and Aisin . Some of the efficiency is from advanced gear design - even 1 percent reduced friction losses is major for EVs and worth the refinement (and tooling costs).

[@marktaylor1777]

@@franciscogodoy9158 Most "transmissions" lose around 15% of the energy transmitted through them, most of it in heat. Worked with Volvo engineers years back supplying temp gauges for transmissions and diffs in Volvo trucks built in Australia. On steep climbs with big loads it was amazing to see the oil temp in the transmissions and diffs start to climb.

[@franciscogodoy9158]

@@marktaylor1777 Losing a 15% at full power is a value to be expected from torque converter auto transmissions. Of course, at lower power, heat losses are higher in percentage but lower in absolute value. In the Semi, there's no gearbox, no diff, just final drives.

[@david32gtr87]

I'm quite drunk being a Friday night... I'm only half way through watching but I don't think it has been mentioned that most diesel Semi trucks get well over 1 million kilometers without issue. Good luck doing that with battery power. It would cost more than the truck is worth to replace the batteries after they have worn out (think iphone batteries...) Beer time

[@gregbailey45]

Less if a problem than you think.

[@jfrodr]

If range numbers are accurate (big if there) those batteries would last around 1.5 million kms (2000 charge cycles * 800 kms per charge) I don't even want to know what such big battery will cost when it finally dies though

[@jayr6637]

I kept waiting for you to mention the approx. weight of the motor & transmission that would be removed, then the video ended, and I guessed you were fishing :) I wondered how quickly people would start biting & how quickly before you'd respond with a smackdown video response... it was a lot quicker than expected!

[@winnie-the-poohahaha4428]

I’m seeing KN cars everywhere now and smiling each time. This is just icing on the cake.

[@lenbryson-haynes5198]

Hi John, Interesting calculation on the Tesla truck, thanks. On the subject of driver numbers (80 or 94, etc), I guess this might eventually depend on Tesla developing the tech to support a convoy with only a driver in the first truck and one or more driverless follow-the-leader trucks. And much much later, perhaps no drivers at all.

[@bfattori01]

Hahaha... Follow the lead? They can't even get their level 2 auto drive to not kill people. You want 3-5 semis under the control of one guy who falls asleep thinking it'll do all the driving? Again. 😂😂😂😂

[@davelloyd-]

Interestingly, they had that tech back in 2017 "we can do this; now" to directly quote Elon, but they seem to have forgotten it. We need to face facts, Elon is like 10 Elizabeth Homes' all rolled into one

[@teslatrucker]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/pnLReJJpiN2ef8U

[@SyncViews]

If such a technology for self driving convoys is ever used, the same could be applied to ICE vehicles as well though?

[@davelloyd-]

@@SyncViews Pretty much what we call a road train, which comes without the added expense of a prime mover

[@shedwork]

Love it. Facts rule. I thought about the weight difference of changing over the drive chain to electric. For five seconds (I'm a bit slow). I realised that it might be similar if not more. Not rocket surgery. Well done JC.

[@davidnobular9220]

I had to go to VSA (Virtue Signallers Anonymous) to come to my epiphany....

[@teslatrucker]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/pnLReJJpiN2ef8U

[@jessebaldwin3086]

Facts do indeed rule. But just saying that weight differences is going to be the same as a car because you feel like might be the case is not being factual. Check out engineering explaineds video on this topic. He used physics equations to get an estimated weight, not feelings. Engineering explained put the estimated weight at 20,000 pounds. Or 9,000kg wich is about 5,000kg less than a 14,000kg ICE truck....

[@indetailcarcaresolutions3770]

Hi John, FYI, of myself and my three friends, one of us always dislikes you videos so you can consider your goals met!! The test group may be a touch on the small size, but this is the only sample I have at my disposal. Lloyd

[@christopherhamilton5557]

Great production as always John! First Tesla semis are being delivered to Pepsi for their Frito Lay division (snacks/chips). Pretty sure you’d never hit max payload with this commodity, so that won’t be an issue for them. It will be interesting to see how this works out. Tesla released a video of a fully loaded semi traveling 500 miles, so, even though we only know the weight of the entire truck, not payload, the truck easily made it.

[@jandideriksen7847]

Tesla is NOT delivering semi's to Pepsi anytime soon, Tesla KEEPS all trucks inhouse (so no one outside Tesla get the sad specs). "fully loaded" Have You calculated the weight on the load? It is ONLY about 7-11 tons, so they really are useless in trucking. The charge time will be around 15 hours for a FAST charge, NO company can afford their trucks to "sleep" for so long.

[@christopherhamilton5557]

@@jandideriksen7847 According to “The Verge”, the first Tesla Semis were delivered as of Dec 1, at a total cost of $30.8 million. And as for the payload, I think I was pretty clear about what I did not know. But the total weight of the truck and payload for the test I referenced was between 81,000 and 82,000 pounds, and it did go the full 500 miles. As for charging, Tesla has a 1 MW charging system.

[@badgerpa9]

In North America Mack, International and Peterbilt have some electric trucks in use, even some Thomas built School busses. The semi tractors are in use for routes and the manufactures have charge stations they are using at the trucking companies. The charge stations are powered by generators. One of the school busses is in use in Alaska and has a charging station at the bus garage.

[@chaswalker2038]

@@badgerpa9 If they are charging using generators are they not then just burning the fuel in the generators instead of the trucks?

[@badgerpa9]

@@chaswalker2038 Yes, but that is the only way they can have the infrastructure to charge at the voltages they use to "quick" charge. It is still in the "how the heck are we going to do this?" stage. If the building they use for charging is in an industrial complex they may have 480 volts AC they can use a step up transformer but not every business has the electric infrastructure near it.

[@adriancojo6671]

Hey John. Regarding the total weight of the semi tesla i think the answer is right in our face. They released a video, a timelapse of the vehicle driving for 500miles at a full load of 81k lbs(almost 37tons). If they ve been true about this number this means that their total weight will be 20tons atleast! There s a shot at the start of that video showing the interior with some box pallets ranked at 600kg. Now i counted like 16 which where is sight and added some for a 28 in total which might aswell be the max number of what u can fit in the picture (there might aswell be just 16 or pallets loaded with chips so no one can know for sure). So at 28 pallets which will be the max number of the pallets we re talking about roughly 17 tons of payload which leaves the total weight of the vehicle at around 20tons. Again this is the best case scenario for them as it might well be less pallets than 28. Would be nice if you can make a video investigating this . Cheers!

[@bfattori01]

Did they? It looked like they were carrying 8 Jersey barriers weighing nowhere NEAR full capacity. And if THAT IS full capacity, the trucking industry has got to be pretty blind to adopt such shite!

[@nickmaguire4914]

I don't know the vehicle dimension limits in the US but here is AUS single trailers are 22 standard pallets or occasionally 24 if it can stay within the same legal length.

[@markbeiser]

It will be interesting to see how they work out for Pepsi. They possibly have the best use case scenario for electric trucks. Deliveries from a regional distribution hub to local stores/warehouses, with the trucks returning to the depot after every shift. The idea of long haul trucking with them is just silly.

[@milamber319]

It also shows one of the flaws in Johns argument. Not everything that can be shipped in a standard trailer uses its full available load mass because not everything is dense enough to reach that max load mass in the available volume. Is a load of dryers going to be as massive as a load of steel beams for construction. What about produce or toilet paper. I think what Elon is trying to hide here isn't that the semi doesnt have a place in the market, but rather that it isn't the universal panacea that he claims it will be. Ok, so maybe only 60% of goods shipped (just spit balling a number here) can take full advantage of the volume available without going over the mass limit. Maybe you can make 5% savings just on those loads by using a semi, and maybe a company like pepsi owns its shipping stock and sees that yes it will make a difference to their bottom line. I think the fact that it isn't a universal solution doesn't mean it doesn't have a purpose... I think Elon doesn't want to admit that though. And Shipping companies being the ultra rational entities they are might just decide that if the Tesla can do a low desnity volume of work more efficiently than a ICE truck, then they will start sorting their loads into low and high desnity trailers and making sure they ship the stuff in an algorithmically optimised way. Just to save them that 2% overall that they crave. But we will have to see how that actually unfolds in terms of cost per volume for the Tesla, the overheads of converting could easily kill any advantage immediatelly.

[@Robert-cu9bm]

@@milamber319 So you're limiting the market dramatically. And then the resale value won't be there because there's only a very small market to sell to.

[@milamber319]

@@Robert-cu9bm I mean..."small" is a relative word....the US freight market alone is many hundreds of billions of dollars and growing. That means not only would a "small" cut of the truck sale market still be a good return on investment, there are many places this truck could just be the most efficient way to ship. It isn't the "game changer" that Elon wants people to think but itll make Tesla and whichever shipping situations it is actually suited for a very tidy saving... something that will ad up for those companies.

[@redleader7503]

The very fact that the US has to allow an increase in GVM for electric trucks is a flat out acknowledgement they are heavier than their ICE counterparts.

[@mantis3dfx]

Also, fuel weight reduces over the course of the trip. I run a B-double doing Melbourne to Adelaide Changeovers at Nhill. Effectively, a full pair of tanks gives me 2 round trips from Bayswater, Vic to the Nhill Changeover Bays. So the second trip done per fuel load starts at approximately half the weight, and reduces to usually just below 1/4 of total tank capacity by the end of the second trip before re-fueling. And it's approximately 1000 to 1100 litres each time I refuel on average - because each load is different. ...Sometimes you're light, sometimes you're heavy.

[@hoverhead047]

Not all shipments are based on weight, some are on volume or a formula that balances both. I'd suggest Frito Laye would be one of those take up a lot of space while not weighing much type of commodities and probably not max the gross weight.

[@wandpj]

How many buyers are there for semis which can only carry corn chips and popcorn? Bit of a niche market.

[@axelknutt5065]

I had the same thought - open the back doors of the trailer and she would be chockers … but total weight of all those chips would be about 9 tonnes. Hardly maxing out the load capacity.

[@Robert-cu9bm]

@@wandpj Amazon... Have you seen how they pack 😂

[@JustIn-mu3nl]

But the road police certainly take weight over each axel into account when handing out fines, instead of chips imagine steel, copper, concrete prefab, glass, etc.

[@patrickvanderlaan1151]

John, Janus Electric trucks already do battery exchange. East coast Australia trial. Still flawed imo, but does exist.

[@johnhepworth9550]

Maybe worth a look as I understand they are recycling ICE trucks claiming a range of 500km and a battery swapping time of a few minutes using a forklift.

[@JT_771]

Another example is a Model 3 Long Range vs BMW 330i X drive. The Model 3 is heavier, but the weight difference is half the weight of the battery. In the end I don't see why people are fighting about the weight, when the weight is something we don't know ... can just approximate. We'll get that weight; happy to wait. The weight is of course crucial ... so rather than guesstimate it, I want some actual numbers. We just need to wait a bit. I would wager this unit will be financially viable for some routes and not others.

[@davidlewis4399]

Great video but some people miss other things as well like in most of Europe is no solar for about four months of the year either. Pretty certain our cold winters will knock over 20% off the range as well double whammy.

[@waynewilkin3582]

there is a company that does do battery exchange for cars but i dont know how that system works. it might be interesting for your audience. The company called NIO. love your videos very informative

[@leewright4941]

You do make some good points. There is an Australian company called Janus that's developing hot swappable batteries that are just changed in minutes with a standard forklift. They have been retrofitting older trucks.

[@FM-jk5qg]

Just a though, if you have all these electric trucks , batteries need to be recycled?? As far as I know there is no recycling of car/ truck batteries in a Australia. So what do we do with the “used batteries “ Furthermore if a truck was in an accident, is there going to be thermal runaway ?? Will the road need to be closed until the fire burns out ??

[@MullockHeap]

John, would another Carrington Event (which we are due for) fry all these electric vehicles or are they protected from such a thing?

[@warpedweirdo]

I'm sure Elon would spin this concern as "free charging, courtesy of the solar storm! We already have regenerative braking, we'll just send the current induced by the event to the batteries for later use!"

[@MullockHeap]

Thanks for the replies, I’m genuinely curious what a large scale EMP would do to cars, both ICE and Electric.

[@gregbailey45]

@Retired Bore it will fry the GPS satellites, not the electronics in the truck. Same difference effectively, but will affect ALL transport, not just EV's.

[@gregbailey45]

@@MullockHeap solar flares do NOT cause an EMP event.

[@gregbailey45]

@Retired Bore you'll still be effed, the CB will be stuffed.

[@Charlie-po5ni]

Hi John, I think the best evidence of why electric trucks don't work is the fact they tested one out here on the highways last year. It had a battery that needed changing over halfway and needed to be done with a forklift. Having electric delivery trucks that only run around a metropolitan area would be viable and help to clean the air in cities, but for interstate transport, I think the best solution would be a hybrid truck that could cut fuel consumption, once you have 70 tonnes moving on flat ground a modern Cummins doesn't require much power to maintain speed. To have electric motors help in starting off and climbing hills would help lower fuel consumption, not to mention regenerative braking could lower noise levels in built-up areas where an engine brake is needed.

[@bobbyr8071]

A bmw 340 weighs same as model 3. A bmw i4 weighs 600 lbs more than 340. He picked the dumbest manufacturer to compare weights bw ice and e cars. People who stand in the way of progress just simply get run over like this gasbag. 😂😂

[@AJPemberton]

"...for interstate transport, I think the best solution..." would be a train?

[@theosphilusthistler712]

@@AJPemberton where coastal shipping is not an option.

[@grahamjacob97]

Or we could use trains.

[@AndreAndFriends]

LOL 🤣😭🤣

[@bbanzai444]

worth noting though i don't think it was mentioned, that the scenario you demonstrate showing the need for additional trucks/drivers assumes that the 40 ICE trucks were running at 100% load capacity. i'm not sure how often that is the case, but it's certainly not always. some cargo just isn't dense enough to reach max weight capacity, even when fully loaded. i don't think that changes a lot. the viability of the Tesla semis is very limited to certain use cases, at best. but any assumptions in analysis should be noted...

[@P_Mann]

Just found your channel and it’s cracking me up! 👍 I think the only solution to long haul range is the equally uneconomical Pony Express model. That is, depots with fully charged trucks to swap under the trailer to continue along the route while the depleted one goes into the back for charging and maintenance. These would have to be a fleet solution where the same company owns or certified all of the trucks, but it may solve most of the range challenges besides the costs, of course. Not a good answer, but not as bad as the truck itself. 🤷‍♂️

[@troyevans2844]

Hi John. Love your work & I get a crack up listening to you read out comments from some of these imbeciles. But as a veteran Truck driver of 27 years on the road, I would like it if you can investigate a company “Janus Electric” that has a number of trucks travelling between Sydney & Brisbane with interchangeable batteries. Would love to hear your thoughts? Trucker Troy

[@annpeerkat2020]

Makes an interesting google read, but don't tell doggsy! he's on a roll with the muskrat truck thing.

[@pond1265]

Hey John, you conviniently forgot to mention the wireless phone charger as well, which is in my opinion is also a game changer in the semi.

[@wandpj]

Impressive sarcasm.

[@andyf1235]

Don't forgot the cup holders. Truly revolutionary!

[@adriaanvantulpenbaard1740]

To much trouble to plug in a phone.

[@andyf1235]

@@adriaanvantulpenbaard1740 Dam straight it is! Haha

[@jakelowang4132]

Wireless charger have about 20% efficiency, for charging 1 kw it take about 1,8kw.

[@Vanilla-jd1ez]

You weren't wrong, I am a trucker. It could not replace my rig for long haul the range is a huge problem. Currently 2x50 gallon tanks 100 gallons at 8.6 mpg= 860 miles of real range. Electric trucks 500 miles of range* on the first use from 100% charge. But recommended not to exceed 80% charge so that's 400 miles of range but not in the cold and not when the battery ages. So pretty quickly you are down to 200-300 miles of actual range and it is much heavier so you can haul less freight and make less money. So the prices of everything hauled have to go up. It just doesn't work without some huge pains in the customers wallet

[@fonzypop]

Hi John, there is an element of cost saving by not using diesel. Also, your calculation of 46 vs 40 trucks doesn’t take into consideration down time for charging Keep up the good work! Steve

[@austinh1028]

If you have a warehouse and put in charging plugs in every bay, you're talking about a massive electric bill. around $.12/Kwh for me here in the states, and with a single 30A 240v under load 24/7 added $450/month on electric bill. and charging up a semi would take a long time and still not be free either- there are people with Lightning pickups that have posted some charge-up costs, which showed them more expensive per-fill up than a v8 counterpart at some stations/electric rates... aside from the Grid in the US already struggling to support the new EV's that exist on the road today, EV really doesn't mean free-to-fill in most places, on the road or as an owner in general

[@awolffromamongus875]

It's interesting that you brought up the increased driver numbers required. When do you think they'll be fully automated? I haven't a clue, but it'll do me out of a job as a driving instructor, one day!

[@kissingfrogs]

that day is a long long way away

[@stusue9733]

I wouldn't be to worry if I was you.

[@bradb4740]

Fully automated driving? Tesla? Never. Period. End of discussion. Nobody is using their tesla as a taxi for passive income, they are stuck at level 2!

[@Fanta....]

I think you're still pretty safe for now. Imagine if a towed load had something wrong with it. How would you get the attention of an autonomous truck? drive in front of it and jam on your brakes?

[@kissingfrogs]

@@aleighwill I also heard that they rolled it out in various forms but many have decided to wind it back. They were keen on driverless trains but they tried and found its just better to have a human on board. BHP recently ramped up their train driver training program. Thats all hearsay of course as I have no insider knowledge. It has its place and will ramp up, but as you suggest not right now.

[@doobresick]

Love your work JC…

[@clubgus07]

Thanks John i know i was a difficult buyer at Autoexpert , and i was particularly infatuated with the Sangyong Musso but it was t meant to be with its 4 Stars rating and lucky i dint buy it with the Diesel prices these days at $2.50 a litre. So with your withered down car brands i know guys couldn’t source me a Subaru Forester because of fleet discounts but i found one a year ago And i just want thank john for putting my mind at ease. I know i could of brought a hyundai, a kia or a mazda or toyota .i just wanted a Suv with off road capabilities and Subaru Quality as Forester L is. Thanks

[@clubgus07]

Hi John there might a imposter on your telegraph channel wanting to sell me bitcoin or something i just wanting to talk auto and donating to strange places unlike Bunnings or super cheap keeping to topic. If i want to talk bitcoin i would of wen tro bitcoinrus channel fyi if your unawares

[@jasonglisson1690]

Ty this is what most people aren't talking about. I didn't even think about the refer part of it either.

[@peterholmes2089]

Some operators may still benefit from the reduced payload capacity. Some loads will be much lighter than others, either due to lightweight goods or only carrying a partial load. I think you will find operators will likely have a mix of electric and ICE trucks, and distribute the loads in ways that make sense.

[@isaacnaughton5206]

I had a similar thought. High volume, low density products would negate the concerns of total mass capable of being delivered by these trucks. I'm guessing that's exactly why they chose to deliver chips in the demo. If that's all you're going to be hauling then great, but if you have a variety of cargos, not so much.

[@nyanbrox5418]

The majority of use cases do not hit the max payload limit, instead hitting the volume limit, good take

[@Xanthopteryx]

@@isaacnaughton5206 The problem is that it limits the truck operations big time. Because, now it could be that you haul styrofoam one way and then do a return trip with concrete. Or as from my own reality: One way with beers and soda (that is also pretty heavy but might not add to maximum depending on how it is packed) and then return trip with malt, fully loaded to the weight.

[@isaacnaughton5206]

@@Xanthopteryx Agreed 100%. Owner-operators would definitely be impacted by the weight limitations reducing the variety of cargo they can haul.

[@Xanthopteryx]

@@isaacnaughton5206 There is a reason as to why we here in Sweden have 40 tonne trucks, and 44 tonne, and 64 tonne, and 74 tonne and even 90 tonne. (depending on what roads they are running on since all roads cannot handle the weight). We are also testing really long combinations, like total length of 34 meter.

[@asajayunknown6290]

😊. A rational, facts-based analysis and argument. EVs are niche vehicles until and unless there is some fundamental change in the tech of the batteries. Thanks John

[@timothykeith1367]

Agreed . In 2023 I'm more interested in a fast charging EV than in longer range. The batteries are too heavy and costly.

[@tygapaul]

Ok John, you have convinced me on the weight argument. Very interesting...but how about this idea on swap out batteries? Let's rethink what a tractor unit consists of. How about each truck is designed with a power unit which is swapped out including front wheels and cooling system so it simply unhitches and weight is then not an issue since it has wheels. Systems are not disturbed as they are mostly integral with the unhitched power unit. The rest of the rig including driver cab, controls and main part of tractor stays with the semi, possibly with driven wheels too, but let's say the part forward of the cab is separate and removable. This unit could then be leased and owned by a power company who manages and monitors the batteries' health and maintains them. The power units would be made to slot into the truck using a standard industry wide coupling system so could be shared between makes of trucks. Not much harder than hooking up a farm tractor with front farm implementation for example. While asking public to do this is a bit risky, any truck operator would be proficient in doing this operation as part of their training. This way, in the time that the semi truck takes to drive until the second power unit battery is discharged, the original one has been recharged. This way, you would only need two power units and then you might consider outright ownership of these two power units per truck to avoid the issue of liability that you quite rightly raised. They could be charged at a business depot or held at the truck stop for the return leg. This way, the charging time is eliminated. Like I mentioned, because the connections to the rest of the truck from the power unit are limited to bolting said power unit and some electrical and hydraulic controls, to the rest of the rig, then it is not much different to a truck's trailer when you think about it; just one that is attached at the front. It would require an industry wide adoption and extra investment but would mitigate charging issues. At this point, you would only need fairly small batteries since time to change power unit needn't be much longer than a toilet or coffee break so no downtime and less weight and financial cost due to smaller batteries.

[@kellymcdermott2546]

Hello John, 1 thing I have not seen is what design of battery is used in the Tesla truck. Is it permanantly in the truck or is it a swap type?. In New Zealand Mainfreight are operating an electric truck (Etruck)on short haul, scheduled Auckland to Hamilton run, and it generally runs light at about 30ish tons, and you are right about e trucks being heavier. I don't recall how much heavier. It runs on a swap battery system. You drive to the battery swap gantry and engage "swap battery" mode and the truck parks itself under the gantry and does the battery swop with out further input from the driver. It has only recently hit the road so I don't have further info. It will be intresting to put the 2 trucks back to back on this run. You are not the only one with questions about the Tesla semi.

[@TheCommanderNZ]

I think Fontera have already taken their E truck off the road. There have been photos on the truckers Facebook page of it parked up.

[@ecchioni]

John, you might also add that a MW class charging station would require pure copper cables with crossection of about an average human male leg, so pretty thick ones.

[@jessebaldwin3086]

They are water cooling them so they can keep the thickness down

[@kaya051285]

Would it make more sense to use 4 normal super chargers with 4 connection points on the truck With the smaller 250 mole version using 2 normal super chargers @ 250kw each

[@stusue9733]

@Retired Bore OFHC its not a stereophonic system.

[@stusue9733]

@Retired Bore Glad I could help

[@gregbailey45]

No, they're thin and fluid cooled.

[@iskinmind7020]

You will not get away with this! I will like both videos out of spite! 🤣

[@gregbailey45]

Hahaha!

[@robertcampbell6521]

You will never be able to get people to understand that in Australia EVs just won't cut the mustard , that includes electric trucks. Small. little EVs around the city are fine but people can't seem to comprehend that to get around this country for work it's quite normal to do at least 1000k in a day. As I say to people you can always carry extra fuel but nobody has explained to me how I can possibly carry extra electricity.

[@Tb0n3]

Honestly, a modular replacement battery wouldn't be that difficult. You wouldn't need lifting necessarily if you could locate the receptacles in line and just push across. Have some sort of storage that keeps the batteries at truck level. All the connections including coolant could be done with modular plugs. You can have hundreds of pins in an array just fine and you can use hydraulic fittings like flat face connectors and lose minimal amounts of coolant each connection. The failure possibility is absolutely a problem that would need to be considered, but it's about the only one that might be difficult to overcome.

[@andyf1235]

The power draw from the grid is the other problem. 1 megawatt per truck needed for charging. That is a lot of power required

[@TimDousset]

G'day John. This is some back of the envelope food for thought based on your 40 truck business example. Applying the same rough thought process I went through while modernising the fit out of one of our older datacentre sites, this changeover from diesel to electric seems incredibly painful from an infrastructure perspective. Don't discount the eyewatering cost and physical size of infra and switchgear for MW scale power grid ties. So, the fleet is off the road if the grid is down? You think to yourself: "that's bad". Next you look at multiple grid providers or multiple ties to separate segments of the same provider's grid. Easy. You come to the realisation that you're probably going to need transformers too. More space. So, what if all your supplies are down? I guess you could eat up most of a modest sized truck marshalling yard with a handful of multi MW capable backup gensets that run on, you guessed it, diesel. Amazing, we've come full circle.

[@gasgas2689]

Except that in 'Murika' a lot, if not all, electricity is generated at coal fired power stations. So you will have tons of CO2 belching out of power stations in order to power the green trucks and cars. . . . . . and don't forget that Volvo are now requiring customers of their electric cars to sign a paper that they realise that the car will not become carbon neutral until it is seven years old.

[@conreo]

Good take John. For me I think the best futur will be to push more and more the railway and maybe having EV for last miles delivery. It's what Switzeland is doing for the railway (puting trucks on train), it requires more planing and a political commitment... Beside what Musk was saying in 2017 ("it beat trains"....) With a enelectric train you don't require batteries :) and In theory you can charge short range EV trucks on the train... I'm also quite interested about the testing happening in Germany with Ev trucks using electric catenary on a highway to recharge/power EV trucks I don't know if it can scale but on paper you extend the range, don't have to carry larger battery.... But for the rest i don't care EV my main concerne is C02 emissions and worldwide transportation (cars, trucks, aviations, boat, trains... ) Account for around 16% of the global emissions... So it's a "small" problem.. juste a not that in some country like in AMERICA this number is higher... I guess it's even higher in Australia but don't have any data to backup my claims none the less it doesn't mean that Western in particulary have to reduce C02 emissions in the transportation sector.

[@travishall1281]

The earth has several things we need to fix. What is the fixation with thinking we can fix it all by electric vehicles? What will the next crisis be after this one when they have stripped the earth of rare minerals making batteries? It’s never going to happen.

[@Shanidar1]

John did a vid some time ago about co² emissions and, like you hinted, transport wasn't the biggest emmiter. I think people are fixated on EVs because they want to drive something different and feel good about it. It's all lip service with fuck all hope of fixing climate change. I will one day own an EV as a second car but I won't be feeling like an environmental warrior.

[@JohnSmith-zi9or]

The USA is 238 times bigger than the size of Switzerland. More so, America's railroads haul 220 times more freight than Switzerland. 40% of USA's long distance freight is moved by trains. There's just not enough room on the rails to significantly increase intermodal in the USA.

[@softwarephil1709]

How long will the battery last if you pump a megawatt of power into it when charging?

[@Paul-li9hq]

I think I've watched this three times, possibly four now... I can honestly say you tearing apart the tesla versus ICE truck argument is easily the funniest thing I've seen all year, so far. Keep it up 👍 I have subscribed... the comedy is priceless 😂

[@andrewthompsonuk1]

I actually think they may be popular with companies who want to greenwash. Like the higher end supermarkets chains who want to look green to their non analytical customers. Of course such companies will have ice trucks for the parts of their operation that the customers do not see.

[@elizabethhalkett]

In AU supermarket chains tend to outsource so it'd have to be the likes of Toll and Linfox doing the green wash and there's no margin in those businesses to wear it. It won't be on linehaul, it'll be on last mile delivery. Think home delivery, you'll see electric Hinos and Volvo's. Team Global Express, ex Toll just acquired a fleet of both for parcel delivery - the only electric linehaul that would make sense in that business would have it on rails.

[@rambleon3698]

And then there's the refigeration.Nobody sees the hundreds of truck pans sitting in yards with the fridge units running 24/7 loaded and waiting to be delivered.

[@alistairshanks5099]

I live next to a Woolworth's distribution center and no fueling or other maintenance is done there as the trucks are not theirs and they don't want fuel on site. They don't sit around for that long at the center. There is a marshaling area and a screen that tells the driver when they are ready for them and what bay and then the truck is off again on its next trip. Like Elizabeth said if they used them it would be for the milk run trip in cities delivering to their mini-marts and small stores.

[@andrewthompsonuk1]

@Retired Bore True, supermarkets are probably one of the main potential users. Even if the economics is there, the extra business they will get for looking like they are green will be huge. However their multinational owners or friends will continue to destroy the planet behind our backs.

[@andrewthompsonuk1]

@Retired Bore maybe however exhaust emissions only make up a tiny part of pollution. ULEZ was perhaps required in Central London many years ago but the latest zone is just total green washing. Let's be green let's make people suffer...

[@paulmartinic7552]

Outstanding as usual John and spot on with your original review. No need to justify or try to explain yours and all of our thoughts and facts regarding this comical proposed idea as a long haul heavy vehicle.

[@stevencarter7031]

Very interesting...as in aviation...its a case of diminishing returns...as the vehicle or aircraft get bigger and heavier, the more fuel is required just to move the weight...as you pointed out in a previous vid...

[@benjones5799]

There is a company doing switch overs for batteries currently. Takes 3 minutes. Weighs about 4.5 tonnes. Costs about 100k to do the conversion on a standard truck.

[@stuarthaynes1737]

Well all I know is that all this excitement is giving me a bit of a large semi 🤔

[@andyf1235]

I hope it has more range than the Tesla haha