Testing a Vortex PC66 Keyboard on an IBM PCjr

When I received a new Vortex PCjr styled mechanical keyboard recently, I halfheartedly lamented the fact that the USB-only keyboard couldn't connect to a real IBM PCjr computer from 1983. But what if it could? Here's how!
Pertinent links:
USB4VC
www.tindie.com/products/dekun...
TexElec PCjr Joystick & Keyboard Breakout Board
texelec.com/product/ibm-pcjr-...
Vortex PC66 USB & Wireless Keyboard
vortexgear.store/products/pc-...

[@LGRBlerbs]

*"What about those passive PS/2 to USB adapters?"* Nope, those don't work! The keyword there is _"passive."_ Those old adapters only work if the _keyboard itself_ supports PS/2 compatibility already, and an increasing number of modern USB keyboards dropped PS/2 protocol support long ago. A passive adapter has no idea what to do with the USB signals on its own, and that’s what the USB4VC is for: it _actively_ converts the protocol to PS/2. And of course, as a nice bonus the USB4VC also allows for connecting wireless input devices, and those old passive adapters certainly don't allow for Bluetooth :)

[@frqv]

You got me there. :) "Why dont he just use one of those adapters that where everywhere when usb was new". Thanks for the enlightment, always a pleasure to watch your videos.

[@KennethSiewersMller]

You should have led with that 😅

[@dominikschutz6300]

Maybe tex elec updates that board to accept usb. Would at least be an interesting request :)

[@NeilVitale]

How do you know if your keyboard supports PS/2?

[@nickwallette6201]

@@NeilVitale Basically, if the KB or mouse _shipped_ with a passive adaptor, then it supports USB and PS/2. (Or PS/2 and serial, as was the trend when both of those were fashionable at the same time.) Otherwise, you just have to know, by finding some reference in a manual, review, or wiki post somewhere. Also, AFAIK, there’s no standard for the wiring on those adaptors. Probably safe to assume V+ and Gnd are the same, but whether D+ and D- connects to Clk and Data, or the other way around, is up to whoever built the adaptor.

[@MatroxMillennium]

I wrote the code for the PS/2 to PCjr keyboard converter. Cool to finally see it in use on one of your channels. :)

[@LGRBlerbs]

Oh excellent! I appreciate your contribution to retro society, it works great

[@nalinux]

Nice job :)

[@Joeyboots80]

Sir, you are a legend! Thanks for your contribution!

[@pengiswe]

I just love the irony of having an adaptor containing enough power to emulate the system itself probably ten times over, just to get a vintage system running :)

[@RoomerJ]

That converter can't do any of that. Also, that's not "irony" if it did.

[@Lu-db1uf]

@@RoomerJ Ironic

[@paalpet]

@@RoomerJ Did you miss the Raspberry Pi?

[@alexjones2677]

@@RoomerJ Dude you just got embarrassed so bad. Totally owned. I feel so sorry for you.

[@RoomerJ]

@@paalpet Oh. The pi can work as the converter and emulate a pc Jr simultaneously?

[@ayeco]

Never change the blerbs' format. Experiencing your real discovery with you, and not feigned reactions during a voiceover after the fact, really communicates the magic of it all with us. Good stuff.

[@anythingispossible287]

When your keyboard adaptor is about 1000 times faster than pc you are using

[@thejackal007]

Clint's enthusiasm for project ideas nobody else would come up with never ceases to put a smile on my face.

[@retropuffer2986]

Always nice to see these old IBMs getting some love.

[@marcsm2008]

Yup. Sometimes they get a dremel and a paperclip, but sometimes they do get some love.

[@SonicBoone56]

@@marcsm2008 lmfao

[@JenniferinIllinois]

That has to be the most ridiculous way to connect a modern USB keyboard to a PCJr. And I love it!!!!!

[@RGamer2009]

I always love adapter shenanigans! Great Blurb!!

[@FightingForceSoulless]

40 years now, damn! But what a great, great computer, even if it was flawed. And that badge, ooooh.

[@ZilogandMoto]

The amount of joy you got from being able to type downstairs was fantastic.

[@DiamondDustVIII]

Man, Round 42 brings back ALL sorts of memories from back in the day! That was always one of my absolute favorites

[@gitpho]

As much as I love the main channel videos, there's just something special about the vibes over here on LGR Blerbs :)

[@jaredbrown691]

Clint I was so excited to see you post another pcjr video. I’ve been playing with mine that I got last year quite a bit. I got all the texelec upgrades except is still need to pick up the soundcard. I finally picked up a gotek that can emulate 360k disks so that’s been fun to play all the old booter games that hadn’t been converted to be installed to a hard disk. This old system has so much life left and I’m glad people that love it have unlocked the potential it should have had back in the day.

[@osgeld]

as an electronics engineer it tweaks my brain that one would have to wait for a 1ghz or more full computer to boot just to act as a keyboard translator

[@adamsfusion]

I love that little adapter, but I agree. I assume they're doing it so they can piggyback on the Linux Kernel's fairly robust HID handling. That's a big gain in the compatibility department where the Kernel already bundles so many odds and ends. It's still really silly though.

[@nickwallette6201]

It bothers me too. I mean, what a Swiss Army Knife device - and that’s great. But this really needs to be optimized down to a micro controller with a native USB interface. I ended up buying a Tripp Lite module to do this, at about $150, because I knew it would be forever and a day before I got around to building one myself.

[@Karreth]

This is the perfect amount of effort for a blerb. Love it.

[@PCUSER486]

I Like that keyboard sound. It's like a lighter yet still solid clicky sound. Mix with solid click with a lighter click LoLz. Nice 📹 video thx for sharing!

[@declanmcquay3476]

The Raspberry Pi has been so great for getting modern solutions for old hardware, whether it is something like this or the PiStorm for the Amiga or Pi1541 for the 8 bit Commodore line

[@IanC14]

Gosh if they can get a PiStorm for the Amiga A600 I'd buy it in a heartbeat

[@osgeld]

I dunno about great, I mean your using a computer (even if its a PI1 that thing has as much horsepower as a Pentium 3) running a full blown OS to pass keyboard data from one physical layer to another. Sure these projects are nice to have but it feels like using a bulldozer to rake your lawn at this point

[@wyokaiju992]

@@osgeld That is pretty much whats happening, yes And it only gets more levels of ridiculous if you use something like a raspi4 or a RockPi 5B At that point you are using something that competes with modern desktop computers, as an accessory to operate a vintage one. Thats like using mining trucks to move a 10lb bag of dirt.

[@ddmplynx]

SO many good videos lately. This was neat.

[@jeffteepell4754]

Wow, the Master Blaster disk. I played the hell out of that as a kid on my Tandy 1000. Was bad at all of them. Not my earliest gaming memory (had an Atari after all), but certainly very early. Almost want to set the Tandy up and play it for a while.

[@marccaselle8108]

I wish I had a Tandy computer but the only option I know of is eBay and then I would be spending 200 to 1000 dollars.

[@RobertBitzer]

Always nice to see my first home computer in action after all of these years...great memories!

[@LordManhattan]

I got the PC68 in black (with Gateron Yellows Pro) after watching your first video, and I just love it!

[@1BitFeverDreams]

I used the USB4VC this weekend to get some Descent 1 going with a PS4 Bluetooth gamepad. All the mappings! I showed it on 'DOS Fever Dreams' if you're curious about my mapping. IMO these games are so well suited for this.

[@anybitfeverdreams]

I confirm, because I'm the same person!

[@BriBCG]

Descent 1 works remarkably well on a dual analog stick modern controller, like it was a game made for that controller. I think the original DOS version will even let you map the controls in such a way that it works, but even easier with a modern source port. I can't imagine how I ever originally played it through mapped to the number pad, not even the mouse.

[@hmichaelkraut7968]

Always thumbs up for a PCjr video. Many thanks!

[@RandomBitzzz]

This is stupid... in such a freaking awesome way! I love it. I love all these retro adapters that get modern peripherals working with old tech.

[@centauri0]

I love having the USB4VC, what a great product to have around for old systems.

[@thecrow3461]

Pretty funny that a raspberry pi which is literally 65000 times faster than the PC jr is only used to convert a keyboard to the pc jr lol.

[@Homemade-Blurb]

Clicks on this Keyboard is so satisfying 😊

[@florianb81]

Love myself a weirdly wonderful blerb. Happy new year good Sir. May 2023 be filled with lots of those shenanigans =)

[@roadsiderebels3039]

right there at the end I could imagine "Near and Far" by Grover on Sesame Street. That was hilarious!

[@MarkTheMorose]

Or, for UK viewers: these computers are small, but this computer is far away.

[@DarkCylon]

I'm not interested in IBM PCjrs or Vortext PC66 keyboards (whatever those are), and yet I know I'm going to enjoy this video.

[@Brianreese83]

aw man was hoping to see the joysticks work. still pretty cool it all worked... lol the irony of using a much more powerful computer as the solution.

[@MrMeowNow]

Thank you for awesome content ❤!

[@DavidSGrop]

That looks like a cozy sweater

[@runcmd8851]

Love it when a plan comes together.. :)

[@thepirategamerboy12]

That Key Punch disk brings me back to the old LGR days.

[@poppasteve2976]

I miss the sounds of a 5.25 floppy drive!

[@guguy00]

Ah, love the PCjr! It is my spirit PC: small, insignificant and a failure :P

[@nickwallette6201]

But charming as 🤐?

[@andresbravo2003]

At least that’s cute, but a delightful keyboard for PCjr.

[@timothyp8947]

Totally bonkers - totally loving it 😊

[@Chrish1981]

You did sound thrilled to do this video lol maybe it was just me.

[@kaitlyn__L]

It’s funny how similar that sounds to my Vortex Race 3 keyboard. I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s basically the same construction under the skin.

[@J.Amaral]

It's funny that the converter board runs probably literally a million times more instructions per second than the PC Jr 🤣

[@AlyxxTheRat]

Seeing that Master Blaster floppy takes me back to those early videos you did just going through those on a 5150.

[@KingLich451]

Junior blerbs

[@AlphaCore_]

Blerbsjr

[@automatedinsanity]

Blerbs 4 kids!

[@ropersonline]

2:25: It looks like the TexElec PCjr Joystick & Keyboard Breakout Board does what it says on the tin and ONLY what it says on the tin. In other words, it obscures/blocks the light pen port (LP) and the odd spare port (L). I realise light pens were rare and the "L" spare port was even more mysterious (like, what does the L even stand for?), but I think those should have been passed through or left unobstructed, because you never know. PS: Same for the external RF modulator port (T, for television), which is also blocked.

[@kotto7877]

Yes, the texelec breakout boards do block the other ports. I had to mess around for a while to get my cassette adapter cable to plug in when one of the breakout boards covered the port (they make 2 breakout boards -- one for kb + joysticks, another for serial + cga).

[@stringsn88keys]

I had a near heart attack at the 5.25”s hitting the desk without a sleeve 😂

[@JB-mk4ry]

Thanks for the blerb Clint. You need to do a "so you found a computer at a thrift store" tutorial about what to do first when you bring equipment home. There's obviously lots of quirks and niche items, but when you get a pc from a random store, what is your process?

[@dannymcgrath4640]

you go as nuts over old computers as I do over new ones

[@gjsmo]

Dang, I just realized that your PCjr has 62940 bytes of free RAM and that's soooo close to being nice

[@IanC14]

Swap the 2 and 9 around, then swap the 2 and 4 around.

[@nickwallette6201]

Multiply by 1.11

[@eddiehimself]

"This is an old computer indeed." *DO YOU HAVE ANY IDEA HOW LITTLE THAT NARROWS IT DOWN, CLINT?*

[@IRWPD]

That is awesome this worked right way.

[@jimeththemelancollie351]

Compatible peripherals with settings on flash memory instead of relying on system dependent software need to be more of a thing.

[@JohnSmith-xq1pz]

I'm lagit tempted to buy one for my retro gaming space

[@0xc0ffea]

Nice, it never hurts to just try things out .. and film it for the rest of us :)

[@UpLateGeek]

This is why I love raspberry pies, they're so versatile! And delicious too.

[@CarletonTorpin]

That PC jr. sounds like a pipe organ hitting the same note the whole time. Soothing.

[@SmeddyTooBestChannel]

i love the pc jr's big chunky-ass font. i'd say "i wish it got more support" but the tandy 1000s were pretty much just that but better.

[@vwestlife]

Syntax error

[@hjalfi]

Clearly the biggest thing missing is a little stick-on round glass lens to go on the back of the Vortex keyboard to simulate the IR transmitter.

[@Merylstreep1949]

Very cool! I'd love to see some Commodore Amiga content, especially the Amiga 2000 since it had the IBM bridge board capability.....please please please I remember using one at Columbia College in Chicago around 1988 that had an at the time super high end paintbox in it please do it or I'd settle for some Amiga Video Toaster content

[@acalthu]

Sweet!

[@TastyBusiness]

Something about the concept of using an entire Raspberry Pi as a lowly (but intelligent) keyboard adapter for a far weaker computer bothers me, but it really shouldn't. This is the way of things... and the results are cool.

[@mattx5499]

This keyboard reminds me of Amiga A600. I would love to have one.

[@ggezlol-]

Going through all this to use a keyboard 😂 I would expect nothing less from an LGR video.

[@BertyBertsson]

Oh this is nothing. Some of us desolder 100+ switches just so we can lube them and the stabilizers to get a smoother feel. I've also taped the back of the PCB to get a thonkier sound, aka 'the tape mod'.

[@kaitlyn__L]

@@BertyBertsson or we do that to replace them entirely ;) kids with socketed keyboards don’t know they’re born!

[@ricardog2165]

The wireless keyboard test had "Ernie from Sesame Street" energy all over it 😆

[@BilisNegra]

When "Conversion Technology" involves a whole computer...

[@paulstubbs7678]

The Pi probably has more grunt than the PC jr - so a nuts setup

[@twocvbloke]

All the modern small mechanical keyboards are perfect for use with vintage computers, apart from the one teensy weensy detail; USB. Cos I'd love to use one with my ongoing Commodore 64-DTV projects (a "Desk/Set-top" one built inside an ex-Freeview digital TV receiver, and a sort-of SX-64 built into a portable 6" TV), but the whole converting USB to PS/2 adds additional complications, which I'm too lazy to muck about with, cos laziness is a lazy-inducer... :P

[@ionstorm66]

You could easily fit something like a teensy inside a keyboard and covert USB to PS2/serial/anything internally.

[@kaitlyn__L]

@@ionstorm66 or even integrate one into an open source PCB layout

[@jonglass]

Rube Goldberg would be proud ;-)

[@yourhalf01]

Damn, I miss my PCjr.

[@yourhalf01]

seriously tho, my brain broke when you used it wireless. That's Awesome.

[@no0ne.]

I created a USB keyboard to AT/XT adapter using a Raspberry Pi Pico (ps2pico) which boots instantly and gets its power from the host PC. But I don't know if it works on a PCjr.

[@willyarma_uk]

Just had a quick look at your github, nice work! Also nice to know the USB can run in host mode, I was only aware of some PIC micros being able to do that.

[@eDoc2020]

I'm not sure if it would work directly but the TexElec breakout contains a PS/2 to PCjr converter.

[@no0ne.]

@@eDoc2020 Yes, the connector should fit but I don't know if the interface is the same as on an PC XT.

[@eDoc2020]

@@no0ne. It's not a passive adapter. The breakout contains a microcontroller which does active conversion from PS/2 to PCjr. No XT interface is involved.

[@no0ne.]

aah, I see, yes then it should work like the usb4vc!

[@FrontSideBus]

So how much more powerful is that Pi board compared with the PC JNR? xD

[@DHChkDsk]

thought the same, maybe somewhere between 500x and 1000x in CPU power alone? ^^ (depending on the model, CPU: ~5MHz VS 4x1,5GHz Pi v4) (crazy how the Pi is low end ARM in current day with that comparison)

[@danieljm1234]

If I could have LGR in my life every day (2 in a row now) I would be so happy

[@Kwasqu]

Tradition is preserved xd Typing "farts" to test KB 😂

[@ropersonline]

To me, the Vortex PC66 screams "one person's preference" much more than it says "generally usable product". I bet what happened was, a single prosperous user contacted the company and got them to make this keyboard exactly tailored to their wishes and preferences, but Vortex retained the right to sell it to others too (thus lowering the price of the custom keyboard). Hence the notable omissions of Insert and Delete keys, very much unlike the PCjr keyboard layout. To make the PC66 more generally usable, I would turn their PgUp into Ins, PgDn into Del, and make Home, PgUp, PgDn & End accessible via Fn+arrow keys (like on the PCjr), but I would change things so that unlike on the PCjr, Fn+up/down arrows would be PgUp/Dn and Fn+left/right arrows would be Home/End. That the PCjr did it the other way around was very illogical. I would then turn the PC66's newly-vacated Home and End keys into NumLk and a Win\Menu key, where Fn+Win=Menu. NumLk wasn't on the PCjr, but could work like it does on laptop keyboards, perhaps with extra lettering on UIOJKLM, etc. Win\Menu might cause problems where those two or other Fn+keys need to be combined. Perhaps configuring Fn+Win as sticky might help. That said, this wasn't on the PCjr either, and the key would simply be left dead when used with an actual PCjr. What was on the PCjr however is a bunch of Fn key combinations: Pause, ScrLk, Echo, Break & PrtSc are labelled on the QSEBP keys, respectively. I don't know what the Echo key is; perhaps that was intended for @ECHO OFF/ON, but I don't think this outlasted the PCjr. For general usability, Echo could be replaced by SysRq, or perhaps SysRq could be added as another Fn label on R. Alternatively, if a new variant of the PC66 were to be sold with an adapter box specifically for the PCjr, NumLk, Win\Menu and SysRq could be left off and Home and End could just stay where they are, with only PgUp/Dn accessible via Fn+up/down arrows. Just bringing back Ins/Del and the Fn+QSEBP keys might be enough to approach 100% PCjr compatibility.

[@only257]

Cool 😎😉🎊

[@joey3179]

Have you ever done anything on Sidewinder Force Feedback joysticks? I would love some tips!!!

[@Game__Boy]

I set my USB4VC up recently. Neat device, but it didn't like working correctly with my KVMs. Seems like the implementation needs some tweaks, I wanted it to be a frontend for 6 different PCs (DOS, Win98, WinXP, several macs), run keyboard/mouse + gamepad. It's doing good for gameport on one of those PCs for now.

[@superviewer]

I need to explore more M$DOS games. I didn't think much of them back in the day as I was an Amiga faithful lol

[@IanC14]

The Amiga was better tbh

[@marccaselle8108]

If you need ms dos games, I can help you there.

[@devilsknight]

Its insane to me, just finished linuses vid about an $80000 AI computer than watching this! Tech is crazy!!

[@gracekim25]

Oooo cool

[@RegularCupOfJoe]

Clint, you taking steps further back until you went downstairs was reminiscent of a Looney Toons cartoon.

[@Blackadder75]

funny, the keyboard converter piece has about 1000 or 100,000 times the raw cpu power of the PCjr...

[@codecthelios]

Today I finally realized why the pc jr failed.

[@webfischi]

They should really sell some keycap replacements for custom set ups

[@tyzerro]

all that i have ever needed in my life was... BLERRRRRRRRBS!

[@Me-qp8vz]

Wow oh wow. I just had a 14-minute ad at the start of the video. I could skip it but, a 14-minute commercial.

[@loteknomad5032]

Oh how I miss all the old computer sounds. The beeps and boops and seek noises. mmm....

[@thesteelrodent1796]

as need as it is to get stuff to work with stuff it's not meant to work with, a keyboard without a delete key is obscene. Always hated the lack of that one essential key when i had to work on the old PowerMacs - since I write a lot, there are just some keys that needs to be on the keyboard

[@Dedicatedtolivinginthepast]

I can't say I have seen a PS/2 cable before! I have only seen it coming out of keyboards and mice

[@lo1bo2]

LGR, we need a montage video of you plugging in various connections and cables, sometimes in slow motion, with appropriate exciting music playing. Perhaps with a few shots of you concentrating and sweating mixed in. Like a classic Rocky training montage scene.

[@BarManFesteiro]

This is one of the Blerbs of all time for sure! ~Farts

[@herbiehusker1889]

Does that USB for VC work with XT machines?

[@LGRBlerbs]

It does! Both AT and PC/XT protocols are supported, along with many others

[@jovmilos]

Cool, now do full LSL2 playthrough, lots of typing involved

[@horsthorstmann2480]

Hey Clint, was it u who wanted the duke nukem steam megaton edition? It seems I have that in my inventory

[@thejackofclubs]

the raspberry pi is so much more powerful than the pcjr and all its doing is converting the keyboard input. its like using a ferrari to charge the battery for your kia rio.

[@RunTheTape]

Actually it’s more like using the uss enterprize to convert a modern steering wheel to a go cart :)

[@MikeSmith-sh3ko]

I've got a Kia Rio what's wrong with that 😁

[@UCs6ktlulE5BEeb3vBBOu6DQ]

Emulation is fine but having the soft disk in hands and hearing the IBM traditional noise is priceless.

[@harshbarj]

I'd be interested in seeing what kind of latency it adds. I know the USB to PS/2 adapters I have used in the past introduced an unacceptable amount of delay.

[@robertdrisdelle]

Drink when he types FARTS