REWORKING MOONKIN ALREADY??? 11.0.5 Moonkin Rework Reviewed

[@MagiRaz]

Eclipse is a shit mechanic and I want it to die. "Cast spells that dont fit the situation so you can go back to doing the right thing" is a dog-water way to play and I dont know why anyone ever thought it was a good idea. Imagine going to a warlock and being like "Hey, I know there's 40 guys out there you wanna hit but if you dont press chaos bolt at least twice right now I'm going to nerf your rain of fire into the dirt." it's totally ridiculous.

[@NorthernHarker]

It's in insanely unfun way to play for sure. I have never understood the design at all. It feels absolutely horrible. They need something else.

[@XCeazyX]

I agree triggering it that way sucks. I like the flavor of it, but it needs a way to trigger it in a way that is less janky/quicker.

[@Nathan-hl4uq]

I think the pendulum was the best rotation the boomkin had.

[@azkendarken4403]

ok but you are comparing builders to spenders.. and is casting 2 wraths on aoe really that slow/janky? and they give you talents like shooting stars and the laser that procs every other eclipse to compensate.. yall are such crybabies

[@HumanThoughtExpression]

Preach, it's utterly trash design and laughably bad. So insane that it has lasted this long.

[@Daisuke69]

Don’t feel like this rework is enough. Class just doesn’t feel fun compared to some other classes. The core mechanic/rotation needs a revamp. I wish the arcane mage team would work on Druid.

[@Invhytas]

I don't think you can make Balance any simpler to play so you probably need a different design team

[@painfullyavarage4316]

Conduit of the Celestials for windwalker does the whole “thing to look forward to” in your rotation very well with the heart of the jade serpent giving you super fast fists channels, and it does so without it dominating the rotation too much. I think a lot of specs could take inspiration from that design where it feels cool and feels powerful without being numerically super strong. Something like every 400 AP you spend gives you 3 free starsurge/starfalls would feel fun and be fun to line up with stuff without being so impactful that it completely dominates your rotation the way pulsar did

[@MrSherhi]

I used to be all rounded druid player able to fill any role in raid decently. That class tree is an abomination, the reason we wont see rework anytime soon is because they would have to move many spec talents in there that could be cross-spec (omen of clarity, incarnation - maybe even summon different incarnation as a spirit or something, adaptive swarm, convoke the spirits...all of these could be capstones, even grove guardians, use them as feral or guardian who cares). Incarnation is prime example, present in every single tree and yet they say "its impossible to make tree that firts all 4 specs"...sure sure. Its just a lot of work to remake 4 spec trees so that class tree is decent thats all.

[@banansplitten2k]

I can't watch anything without timestamps anymore

[@CyclopsToppingWolverine]

character flaw

[@teej143]

You can’t make timestamps for scatterbrain content

[@colestevens6016]

Sounds like a you problem

[@Riskbane]

Me neither, closing video.

[@WarMonkeyPlays]

Skill issue

[@Bomber680]

would be cool if wild/sunseeker mushrooms refreshed moonfire and sunfire on enemies, so you can potentially save some gcds on having to refresh them manually

[@jeffreypenkoff6178]

Aetherial Kindling does that for you already, and mushrooms on ST probably not happening

[@djbedu]

Many others and I have started very many active threads on the forums about removing eclipse. Most agreed. Got ignored.

[@XCeazyX]

i would suggest not basing your satisfaction on blizzard removing the main mechanic of the spec. just like practically speaking, that aint gonna happen chief.

[@Invhytas]

Removing eclipse is like removing chaos bolt from destro or combustion from firemage Ask for a rework and make constructive suggestions. At this point I would even prefer the automatically moving eclipse from Cata.

[@djbedu]

I hear y'all, but it doesn't mean we can't voice our opinions, nor does it mean that because it's been there for so long, it has to remain. They have already presented a better version IMO on season of discovery whereby wrath empowers starfire and vice versa. Wrath speeds up starfire which we all want and starfire increases wrath's critical strike chance. It keeps 3 charges. If they do some iteration of that considering all the other talents/skills we have now, it could make for a "balance" element of the spec without the tedious must enter eclipse first (along with all the other ramp we need). And maybe our spenders could also enhance the wrath and starfire builders in a way too. That way by the time we press them again, it isn't a wasteful two just to get to the lackluster eclipse buff but rather a super powered starfire or wrath depending on our ST or AOE situation.

[@rockersheart]

Real talk, I don't know if you remember priest Chakras but it was an old ability where you hit one Chakra to buff single target healing n the other to buff are healing. What if we did the same idea with both lunar and solar eclipse?

[@123FireSnake]

Don't remember how chakras worked but I think we just need a stance button to swap and some ebb and flow like Starlord mechanic to work around.

[@rockersheart]

@@123FireSnake that's what the Chakra system was. A toggle

[@brandonc8892]

My biggest complaint with Moonkin is having to constantly TAB in AoE just to apply as many Moonfires / Sunfires as I can. It's getting so fuckin' old that I'm genuinely considering not playing my Moonkin anymore simply because of the constant TAB spam.

[@Relativechapter]

Thats just dot playstyle. I use mouseover macros for my dot, just sounds like you just dont vibe with dots anymore and thats okay

[@ralecgos3631]

No, you're right. Don't let the DoT people make you feel like it's a you problem. Play Affliction Warlock for a little bit and see just how good DoTs really can feel on "THE" DoT class of WoW. Balance feels incredibly behind mechanically and it's not even funny. The game is modernizing around it, and it just stays stagnant.

[@Relativechapter]

@@ralecgos3631 I really enjoy aff if it wasn't for how janky vile taint is

[@brandonc8892]

@@Relativechapter You look dumb. Affliction doesn’t have the same issue as Moonkin and it’s THE dot class. Same for Unholy DK and it’s the melee DOT class. You look so dumb rn.

[@voodoo1069]

I'm for sure part of the problem but I haven't been able to really enjoy balance since the first raid of shadowlands. That simple enjoyable rotation is the best the class has ever been personally.

[@aylaa5842]

Nathria times

[@timothykrzywonski]

Druid class tree just needs to be an exception in design. Maybe give it multiple class trees or add flat stata something into nodes for specs who wouldn't want the spot ability

[@gregoirelegall9513]

Imagine they transformed the eclipse system to actually work as a reworked arcanic pulsar after we spend X amount of astral power. Like after 350 astral power spend you would get an eclipse state. Would be great. Best of both worlds. And flat % up on damage to compensate the lack of permanent eclipse.

[@RyanDamore]

It is definitely a 5-6 on that scaling of how good they adjusted. They're doubling down on DOT builds with Solstice/Shooting Stars/Crashing Star, which feels super awful unless they adjust it for AOE. I want to hit hard, not whittle away -- that's what Shadow Priest and Affliction Warlocks are for. Bring back the boom. Bring back hard hits/huge spenders.

[@WarMonkeyPlays]

Minor (or major?) gripes I have: 1) Redesign Waning Twilight to grant 2% output increase per over time effect. 2) Grove should interact with Mushrooms - on top of all the other gripes. Would love to see casting Mushrooms (sunseeker or wild) reduces SB's CD by x seconds. 3) Would love to see the class tree split between two philosophies: either you focus on eclipse and builders/spenders or you take a talent that modifies Eclipse to where you largely ignore it, instead paying attention to DoT management. 4) We need a Damnation ability or w/e it's called from Afflock; a CD that applies SF and MF to a group. Maybe a new ability, maybe bake it into Goldwinn or mushrooms. 5) the class tree, duh, but that one's obvious. EDIT: Actually, you can have Waning Twilight be the Eclipse replacement: Replaces Eclipse. Mastery now increases your SS, SF, and Regrowth for each over-time effect on the target by x%. That'd be [possibly] cool as Eclipse-focused builds would have a damage profile split fairly evenly between builders and spenders while this damage profile would be sustained DoT damage and heavy hitting spenders. Ok, I'll stop armchair developing now.

[@teej143]

Your comment about astral smolder makes me want to throw up. I DONT want to think about triggering waning twilight with stellar flare. Smolder frees me from being a try-hard dot manager

[@somponz]

Playing cata abit when the launch came out and having your star surge be a hard hitting proc made me feel really bad about going back to retail where I am throwing 8 of them out at once all hitting like my builders

[@jeffreypenkoff6178]

Is there a world where you play 1 min Convoke, Whirling Stars, Potent Enchantments and just have this rapidfire 1 min burst profile?

[@123FireSnake]

I hate the eclipse management that's why I really like the Chosen of Elune node that just gets rid of solar eclipse, still doesn't feel great to just drop out of eclipse and restart it but at least it reduces the amount of fumbles. TL;DR Laser chicken

[@123FireSnake]

Also can we talk about how it's weird to have Sunfire, the AoE dot be nature and Mushrooms, a dedicated AoE Talent to be nature when nature is geared towards single target. The fact that these are tied to the wrong eclipse feels like part of the problem with the specc and how it scales with stats, we're just gonna sim it anyways but having it more intuitive would be good additionally balancing shrooms would be made easier if they scale the same as the rest of the kit instead of reversed

[@jlaamanen]

Circle does not make kindling bad. Dot's just make more dmg when you can make them last longer too.?

[@jandolezel2585]

I was kinda hoping for Druid rework at 11.1 isntead of this we got half-assed atemp at rework that is step in eight direction but it doesn't go far enough. Convoke being in spec tree instead of class tree is criminal at this point and im kinda hoping for return of oldschool Affinity system

[@tankstompdruid9939]

why is eclipse still 2 casts??

[@DerikDeLong]

Honestly, to reduce the chance you go into the wrong eclipse because you incorrectly guessed you could use another builder inside the last eclipse. Not to forgive the system, but the design has so many inherent flaws that make it annoying to play.

[@123FireSnake]

@@DerikDeLong indeed, it's a bandaid on a flawed system, the Chosen of elune node that removes solar eclipse is halfway there, now all they need to do is make it so you don't drop out of lunar in the first place

[@bilbobaggins7095]

Moonkin rotation was better in BC just do that and get rid of the mana issues and it's more fun...basic but way better

[@attinger117]

To address your point about BFA empowerments ‘not doing anything’. Yes they were a simple mechanic but so is current eclipse. BFA empowerments punished you for ignoring wrath or star fire. If you were in single target and just spammed wrath and starsurge, you would lose damage for overcapping your lunar empowerments. Yes it’s a simple system but I think it’s much better than what we have now.

[@karlim5]

Im main Boomkin and I hate this big stupid chicken form (and many other things about it). Really this was the best design idea? Holy shit! And I dont know my opinion about this changing, many feelings

[@ChristopherWisenbaugh]

I have used soothe in dungeons this exp not as often as df but still use it

[@chadddada]

I think the paladin has ~20 new talents... 20...

[@iCondemnPS3]

Not sure this will save us, we need another spender for aoe or something to make the class feel better without having pulsar as a talent node.

[@Gumblethebear]

Still squishy in an xpac that is going to put survivability at a premium.

[@zachphoenix4522]

Doesn't Circle of Life and Death make our aoe bursty tho? It even makes starfall fall faster. I thought that was the point of it.

[@Tettles]

I mean, not really. How I see it is: One starfall doing its damage over 6s instead of 8 doesn’t really make us more bursty.

[@zachphoenix4522]

@@Tettles true, 2 secs isnt much i suppose

[@driiifter]

Now all they need to do is make Rogue not a living hell to play in dungeons. On bosses they're perfectly fine. It's when you start grouping up trash where things become a problem. I dunno if anyone has played Rogue in Cinderbrew, but if that place gets chain pulled, you can't even move your character let alone hit anything.

[@vildjuret6591]

Same problem with all classes if you chain-pull in that dungeon. Just interrupt and stun.

[@Sarkose]

Oh no.... Any way.

[@Valvad0ss]

Lmaoooo 😂😂😂 my man can’t handle the m+ stacks as a melee. Homie it’s a learned experience; that isn’t the rogues problem

[@kacey69]

I don’t play moonkin. I don’t even play Druid. I watched this in its entirety to hear an expert complain about his passion and I was not disappointed

[@alphapanda8638]

Rework seems meh and does nothing for our single target damage... goldrinn neutered, nothing else seems to buff or create a solid single target build. Would be nice if we had some chunky starsurge... but it feels like instead we only spend it to just dump our astra power but does as much damage as wrath lol

[@mending_chord6787]

@27:07

[@aylaa5842]

bring stellar drift back

[@demo7137]

Tettles complaining about boomy is about as consistent as blizzards terrible writing

[@dkshrug54]

If you actually played through TWW and this is still your opinion im glad the writing team isnt catering towards whatever garbage ideas you see as "good writing."

[@leeallen5132]

You've lost your mind. TWWs writing is incredibly good

[@Valvad0ss]

Lmao it’s good writing. Being ignorant is a choice

[@JVL1988]

I thought i was watching this on x2. Slow down a bit when you talk man.

[@wvjeepguy8178]

Survival changes are god awful. It's the only spec I enjoy playing in current retail WoW, so if these changes go through, I'll just quit playing again after just coming back from a three year break.

[@Valvad0ss]

That’s entirely your fault for only playing one out of over 20 specs

[@wvjeepguy8178]

@@Valvad0ss How many hours a day do you devote to playing and what item levels are all of your characters?

[@Jester-86]

Reposted Zaelias tweet yet or still being a douche

[@Arizonian312]

Wtf are u talking about gtfo

[@jrandoskeet]

Came here to hear moonkins cry again. Even though it's their only emotion, it never gets old.

[@gpm135]

Not gonna lie tettle, u make me hate boomkin

[@brandoncomer6492]

Boomkin players in general make me hate boomkin

[@enzy6434]

To be fair, there isn't really a whole lot to like about moonkin right now.

[@HumanThoughtExpression]

Blizzard makes us all hate boomkin, it's a terribly designed spec and has been for AGES.

[@rockersheart]

Hot take. Bring back venth moon kin. Omg I loved that playstyle

[@Gpapp87]

Yo for real. Those were the best time as boomy

[@Polyglotz]

Whats that?

[@aylaa5842]

I missed old SL boomie fun times

[@WarMonkeyPlays]

@@Polyglotz venth boomy from shadowlands had a ramping CD. Can't remember if it was damage or haste, but IIRC, each cast increased your dps - and I think if you stopped casting you would get stunned. But please, someone correct me if I'm totally off base. I played NF in SL.

[@Mira-dp6di]

@@WarMonkeyPlays it was both, damage *and* haste, per stack. get a stack for each ability u used. combined with a long incarn window u were constantly ramping up and going super speed your entire incarn. was very fun, especially when u got a good flow, since u reach extra high stacks and your last couple seconds feel extra insane

[@BeckyPenn]

its criminal to force us to put points into bear talents. bear form for balance is USELESS unless you have to mitigate dmg. stop trying to fit everything into the base tree! every freaking point on that base tree should have a BENEFIT to the spec you are actually playing.

[@lKeyZen]

Hi. I don't understand the problem with circle of life and death in M+. Currently for my part it feels like you apply dots and refresh it constantly with starfall but the targets dies so quickly that you can't really benefit from dots in low key, mostly when you have a gameplay based around dots. Adding Circle talent feels good to me because you need less time for your dots to be effective, and you can still refresh it with starfall so I just see this as a good talent for the not top m+ keys.

[@Tettles]

It’s mostly that refreshing your dots in m+ doesn’t feel great. You spent all this time putting up your dots. Having to reapply them again feels bad.

[@lostfluke]

What about now that there is 2 CA's that means we would get double orbital strikes now inside of 1 minute 10sec, no?

[@123FireSnake]

no, same choice node

[@driiifter]

The reason to use Crit is so your spells can crit. Entitled much? Lol jk of course. Rogues have to choose between Crit and double vanish so their spec functions in dungeons, yayy.....

[@RazaDazza]

Very few of the 2 node points for any class rework have retained the 2 point power. They’ve almost always gone somewhere in the middle. So if 2 points was 4% and 1 point was 2% the new 1 point node 3% there are exceptions to that but most have been in the middle for everyone.

[@luckygozer]

While I like the idea of Whirling Stars it does feel like a less interesting choice node now that it's shorter CD with laser or even shorter CD as the options

[@D3adRomanc3]

Here go again, here we go.

[@mylinuxstruggle5495]

The only video I care about.

[@moonfaebae]

I'm very excited about these updates as a World/Delve player. It could be challenging at times to get into eclipse without a Tank, but with Whirling Stars - this will be fun to play around. Circle of L&D will be great, most of the folks tagged die long before you have to refresh the dots, so it makes DOTting feel more inpactful. And the rearrangeing of talents, let me take everything I wanted. Great job Blizzard!

[@mus7086]

It's a little step in a right direction but we still have so many completely passive talent nodes in both our spec and hero talent trees that doesn't affect our gameplay AT ALL. The most fun I had playing balance was DF S1 because we cycled so quickly into eclipse/incarn that all those talents/set bonuses affected by entering eclipse felt useful. Playing starweaver was finally worth it. If they want to keep the current eclipse system and make these talents impactfull (firmament, solstice, communion...) there should be a way to actively trigger new eclipse cycle to make the playstyle more dynamic (what pulsar was doing when we could cycle it quickly).

[@countryc0unt]

so you want 60 talent points that all change your gameplay differently? how do you think that will work? please explain in detail how you think that would be possible in any way shape or form

[@mus7086]

@@countryc0unt Im not saying we should have none, I'm saying we have to much. If you enjoy the gameplay implication of rattle or denizen good for you ! I feel that the gameplay is pretty bland, and I feel that maybe it could be linked to that. What's the point of adding circle of life and death when we already have cosmic rapidity ? I wonder...

[@Fridas13]

first?

[@akirameru675]

Druid is trash tier

[@turbogronil4950]

Wanna bet ?

[@akirameru675]

@@turbogronil4950 RWF will probably bring a guardian for MOTW and sit every other spec

[@grizzly311tr]

@@turbogronil4950 even if it's good, it looks boring and unsatisfying to play. wake me up when you don't have to hardcast 2 bad to get into any good

[@turbogronil4950]

@@grizzly311tr "wake me up when you don't have to hardcast" Imagine having the confidence to reduce the whole druid class to boomy lol, tf Never cared about boomies ngl, but there are also healers, ferals and tanks as the other guy said