[TF2] Cheating in MvM - The Case Continues

As if things couldn't get any worse...
Check out my line of Apex Gaming PC's here! Use code "TF2" for a discount of up to $250. apexgamingpcs....
Join the Discord: / discord
Follow my Twitter: / weezytf2
MvM Tours/Loot RoI Stats:
steamcommunity...
Music List:
pastebin.com/D...

[@johnnyAFIRE]

Bill Gaithers: “Could you guys hurry up? I’ve got shit to do” Bill Gaithers then proceeds to waste 41+ minutes doing nothing

[@Polar_Pyro_YT21]

PARAPA BE SPITTIN' STRAIGHT FACTS🔥💯🥶

[@diavolo5997]

I think he was afk. Typed 'attack2' in console to keep the robots trapped and went off to do whatever. Since he was technically doing something, valve auto kick didn't work and him and his friends probably had an auto f2 to prevent getting kicked

[@AnthonyDaFox]

I swear Billy boy better pray i never meet him IRL. I'll Show him a REAL Kick time. With Steel toed boots.

[@MTGDuelist8870]

Bill: "i've got shit to doooooooo!" also Bill: "you think any of you are allowed to complete?, that includes myself"

[@susragejr477]

Bro clearly doesn’t care about doing things fast he just wants to cause chaos

[@formerhunter2]

"It's not a baby, it's a 30 year old man-child, and he just shit in the tub" This video was worth watching JUST for that one line. For FUCKS sake, man. I'm giggling rn

[@NexusKirin]

Bro said that and I was like teehee

[@handlessuckdick]

Can you believe the goal 11 years ago was just "Kill the robots."

[@martinmatin6275]

2050: assasinate the tacobot leader

[@rebeccadavis3185]

​@@martinmatin6275 ladies and gentlemen we got him

[@ice_swallow_come5964]

@@martinmatin6275 *gets replaced by a fascist leader

[@iuliili5263]

@@ice_swallow_come5964 Im not suprised if the owner of taco bot is a fascist

[@EliteCameraBuddy]

bots

[@randomviewer391]

He literally said that "the normalization of cheating in MVM will become a cancer to the game" in his previous vid, and people still think he supports it??

[@Davtwan]

He doesn’t support it the way they want him to support it, so they claim it’s a coverup vid. So basically they’re the FOX News of the TF2 community. Be careful if you approach them; they bite. :V

[@mariustan9275]

@@Davtwan This is why I watch dog news instead.

[@commanderknee3821]

@@Davtwan more like CNN but eh, close enough

[@mfaiden4088]

You da goat

[@DaMaster012]

There are jingoist paste-swillers on the right who still think Fox News is their honest friend and that the Republican party isn't buy in large controlled opposition, and non-player cultist zealots on the left who will deny objective, irrefutable evidence that immutably proves Trump isn't a Russian agent and that the oval office was stolen three years ago. That's the thing about adopting the most primitive, neanderthal, monkey-brained tribalist mindsets; it's bad no matter what side you're doing it for, because it is not just an abandonment, but denial of our individual gifts of reasoning and capacity to form a personal relationship with The Truth, to the point they'll pathologize and vilify any perspective that isn't a mirror image of their own solipsism, even people who wholly agree with the spirit of their beliefs but not the exact same principles. TL;DR: Collectivism bad, individualism good.

[@DoctorTheo]

26:55 Holy shit. If you get kicked from TacoBot for being too toxic, that's more than toxicity. That's radioactivity

[@blade866]

not wrong

[@thesalvager3020]

It's Chernobyl levels of hazardous cringe.

[@mariustan9275]

Thats like being kicked from the Nazis for being too racist

[@skorlupa435]

Chinese acid air level of toxic.

[@ndoniomuele376]

​@@thesalvager3020😊

[@polishhockeyfan]

I want to get a team of scientists to research Bill Gaither. He is, genuinely, one of the most fascinating cases of narcissism I've ever seen. Like it's not even funny or sad or pathetic. It's fascinating on a medical level and you could probably compile a thesis on him.

[@matsurischlaagen1757]

My guess is that he is a high levelled autist living in his aunt's basement after his whole immediate family had killed themselves. To cover up the reason of them killing themselves was in fact because him, he copes in the small, niche grains of power he wields through abusing the mechanics of the game to make other people's days worse. Chronically online, ugly as sin with a personality to match, and a distinctive lack of bitches, he gathers other like-minded and phenotyped friends to lather themselves up with lube and jerk each other off.

[@haceofspades7682]

Psychology is a super interesting field tbh

[@justanothernerd8338]

He is indeed an interesting specimen.. Perhaps we can make more research on this animal, and see what makes him tick, lmao (Not trying to be radical, just thought referring to him was an animal was funny)

[@dalamarwren424]

If I could give a loose hypothesis. And no I’m not some psychologist I just studying random things, also based upon real life experience. It’s probably not really Narcissism but a power fantasy that levels in psycho schizophrenia justification. Let me explain.i myself am a high functioning schizophrenic but at a time DEF wasn’t and also have a brother and mother with it and he reminds me of my brother. You see certain things feed into a dillusion and it ranges. I thought everyone was out to get me due to my victim complex and depression. My brother had this almost god complex that In real life made him manifest achievements he has NEVER have due to pampering from my mother. (She meant well it isn’t easy to deal with us) and he sounded ALOT like this guy when he got older. That complex makes you think you rival legends. And turns you far more cocky without the ability to be humbled by loss or falsities because the Dilution NEVER allows you to lose. My brother genuinely went online with this sort of I’m better mentality. But here is when it gets tricky. For when you grow older with this path of Mental psychopathy and life isn’t giving you what you “deserve” and every time in public your “greatness” isn’t acknowledged it makes you SO bitter you will go to areas or places, like the Internet or phone calls. Say the WORST things imaginable with a determination rivaling DARTH MAUL and GENUINELY think life owes you for it. My brother DID this, openly being a super jerk and saying similar things and when called out didn’t understand and his spite and mindset said they were at fault and DESERVED it. I was happy to be humbled and learn to think and learn past my Paranoia but my brother never did. He can’t learn because it’s justified in his eyes. He probably thinks he’s completely in the right for others not Listening to him and he is so great everyone being punished doesn’t punish him because he’s too good. My brother grieved for 5 HOURS in a Minecraft game and died constantly while doing it and achieved NOTHINGin the end since 5 others rebuilt what he destroyed and kept killing him. Him just being a nuisance. And he walked away thinking he showed them despite the only one being really punished It’s Incredulous. Thats just my thoughts though

[@LeBonkJordan]

"It’s not a coherent belief system, it’s just government by narcissistic personality disorder. A narcissist is never wrong, never a hypocrite, never at fault. A narcissist changes reality around them and bulldozes others into agreeing with it to save their sanity and their skin and then turns around and changes that reality on a whim to avoid ever having to feel anything at all, least of all the dreaded responsibility. There’s no such thing as a smart fascist because smart people, by definition, think about things and fascism is terrified of letting anyone think about what’s happening for more than a second. Just throw up some new pain porn on the captive media and give it bright colors until people are so angry they can’t think, not even about what they’re angry about." -Catherynne M. Valente, "There's No Such Thing As a Smart Fascist"

[@gabrieljankowski9159]

How long before people argue that this video is pro cheating because it advocates for the removal of griefing methods

[@licemere9899]

making kicking work => pro cheating? (46:00)

[@Chimpin_]

i'd give it 3 days before tacobot explodes

[@WeezyTF2]

12 hours in and I’ve received a couple screenies from some high tour discord channels claiming exactly this. If you can’t convince them, laugh at them, happy to see you all think this is as ridiculous as I do.

[@moronribbons5774]

@@WeezyTF2 30 minutes of explaining exactly why you denounce cheating isn't enough for you to also justify criticizing the way other people have opposed it apparently. Still, good thoughts to have put down into a solid video.

[@messiyer13]

@@WeezyTF2Godspeed man

[@Mik-kv8xx]

I thought Puss in Boots 2 had a great villain roster, then I played my first Mann-Up game.

[@martinmatin6275]

real

[@localcommenter4853]

Jack Horner is most definitely the kind of guy to cheat AND grief

[@dimsthedimwit600]

@@localcommenter4853 Don't adopt dogs or pets in general in a server with Horner Actually just don't have pets near Horner

[@moronribbons5774]

Ok, but the Bill guy recognizing Weezy as a youtuber and putting on music and celebrating griefing Weezy WAS pretty comical.

[@DerpCells]

​@@localcommenter4853 "Your not gonna grief a server, are you jack?" "Yeah, with this flamethrower, watch."

[@G.r.e.g.g.l.e.s]

- They fixed giants being locked in spawn areas with airblast. - They fixed HUD invites/notifications locking out players from the upgrade station. - They fixed votekick circumvention. And that's not even close to the best part of the Seal Summer Update :)

[@sweetypuss]

the first two are true but the third one isn't. votekick circumvention is still a thing

[@4zy1]

That absolute lad of a Medic who rejoined in an attempt to save you is a hero.

[@mariustan9275]

He is a hero

[@PancakebatterLuigi]

That was fucking awesome it was like an anime where the hero comes in at last second

[@johnathan_maximiliam]

​@@PancakebatterLuigi and then gets gored

[@Polar_Pyro_YT21]

May he go down in history.

[@grantsrants665]

May he forever find australiums whenever he wishes

[@gold_awesome]

Imagine thinking you’d end up having just enough footage for a video appropriate for a college lecture only to end up with a Quintin Tarantino film

[@LanguidWyvern]

28:09 no way, the second I saw the name (CPC) XJT and then those characters I had a fucking flashback to when I met this asshat in MvM. He joined as a spy and demanded we kick our heavy because he was new and bought knockback rage, we didn't kick the heavy, so he cussed us out and went into spectator mode and tried to hold us hostage until we "gave him his loot." We kept playing until the last round as a 5 man team and it was a bit of a struggle, meanwhile he was cussing us out and everything the whole time. At the last wave I had an idea; since he'd been here since wave 1 and had spent all this time in what had become a pretty prolonged game, his time could be wasted if we were to all vote to restart the map and leave. So I pitched the idea to the team and they all voted yes, this made the dude furious. He began typing all kinds of shit and I just left him with "enjoy your loot, prick." I thought that'd be it but I guess I made him mad enough to somehow follow me into several MvM lobbies. When I saw him, I'd leave and join another lobby but he'd show up not even a second after I joined. It took like 10 reconnects before he got bored and fucked off. If you read this XJT, get fucked, hope you enjoyed your 2 and a half hour map restart and no loot.

[@everybodyman]

What a move for you, man, I hope you have more fun playing in the future

[@THE_MrNoob]

How to deal with MVM asshats 101

[@Nega-Tim]

Holy shit I met this guy too. Tbf he didn't say a word and just left at the end of the game but still.

[@LowEff]

Bro I was the heavy lol

[@jaredschroeder7555]

Lol, that brightens my day a good bit. This dick wad kicked me on the final wave of a map for "slow f4", and being pretty new. We never struggled with a wave, and i f4'd fairly quickly after getting called for it once, having realized i was being a tad slow.

[@doodguytheblank2403]

The pizza-taco bot conflict truly is the zeitgeist of the century

[@tighlia3375]

Now if only it was tasty instead of full of sewage both ways.

[@ghoulbuster1]

The autism wars

[@sleepyguy4237]

​@Carrot I like the sound of the word.

[@Demopans5990]

@Carrot It's a German loanword that is exactly as it means

[@jackmio]

@@ghoulbuster1 its more than just autism; i have it and even im not this bad

[@defoisalexy7403]

The problem with war is that when you are not in a team, the team think you are on the enemy's team and vice versa

[@SmellyUnfortunate007]

It reminds me of Anakin's quote, "If you are not with me, then you're my enemy!"

[@mariustan9275]

War is like hell, but hell doesn't have innocent people involved (the random ppl who are at the wrong place at the wrong time).

[@defoisalexy7403]

@@SmellyUnfortunate007 Actually the quote i heard it in a french video (cause im french) from the youtuber MJ Fermez la where he talked about Zach Snyder's Justice League but the star wars quote is good too

[@realah3001]

“When surrounded by war one must eventually pick a side”- some pretentious cuck lol

[@Brass319]

this is called crossfire

[@popedonk8041]

In the latest update robots are 100% knock back resistance when coming out of spawn, so now these clods cannot pull this stunt anymore

[@conclusivestate]

God bless the Seal Update

[@shroomer3867]

Now there needs to be one where bots with bomb teleport back if knocked back to the capture point and it's perfection

[@30thCenturyFish]

they should also make the robots fire back when in spawn, so they cant be bodyblocked/buildingblocked or just shoved back in when they leave spawn.

[@loganwalters4373]

Holy shit fr!?

[@JessieTheFox]

Praise lord gaben!

[@Quaindicator]

Griefers: "Cheating is bad because it ruins the gamemode" Also griefers: *proceed to ruin the gamemode*

[@skyper8934]

One makes the game faster, and that's it. The other actively ruins, blocks and makes everyone lose 40 minutes.

[@butterduck6398]

Then there's "Why am I playing this again?"

[@Polar_Pyro_YT21]

@@butterduck6398 Also: I REQUIRE M O N E Y .

[@dkskcjfjswwwwwws413]

​@@skyper8934tfw you cheat to actively lose money

[@funnymanactivities]

im 9 minutes in, nvm cheating is stupid

[@Berd]

cheaters more like peters

[@jjonoise]

what

[@underplague6344]

​@@jjonoisepeter means rock, and cheaters have the intelligence of rocks. Another masterpiece by @Berd. Bravo

[@g2ltt733]

@@underplague6344 actually they are called minerals

[@ironprince72]

​@@underplague6344 rock_005

[@marksukhovsky7917]

​@@ironprince72 Me when i misspell big rock on google search

[@750TheBoss]

"So between Gentleman - the pyro, who actively trying to fuck over the game, and me - the pyro, who's actively trying to protect the game, which one did the team decide to kick? That's right - the Medic. Yeah... because he was the the real problem". I laughed so hard on this one, because it's so relatable. This is quite common in public lobbies of any game. Some person gets kicked for no apparent reason, when something goes wrong. On one hand, people just shut down their brains to sink in an hour a two to relax and have fun, can't blame them. On the other hand, if only we all were more aware of lunatics like Gentleman and the rest seen in these videos.

[@MinoriGaming]

If I had to wager a guess, it's probably because people have grown kinda accustomed to kneejerk pressing F1 because of the Bot thing. Lots of people see a votekick and just automatically vote yes, and it's not unlikely that Gentleman leveraged that tendency. Called the vote on the Medic because he wanted to make a point to Weezy, knowing the other low tours would probably just play ball instinctively.

42:23

[@Brown95P]

To summarize: 1) cheating in mvm is not good 2) griefing in mvm is so much worse 3) both sides are the absolute scum of the earth 4) somehow a better love story than ow2's cancelled pve ...Man, I miss the 2000s...

[@SunkermacGunker]

that's a really good summary

[@SmellyUnfortunate007]

I agree. I want the 2000s back except for 9/11, DC Sniper attack, the Iraq War, Hurricane Katrina, the stock market crash of 2008, etc.

[@Hitoshuratdn]

Maybe Ow2 actually Dodged a bullet. Imagine a community like mvm

[@MagikalKrabical]

Ngl kinda wanted to play ow2 for the pve. Guess I'm not returning.

[@Brown95P]

@@SmellyUnfortunate007 Only one of those really mattered on this side of the atlantic for that decade, and the 2nd iraq war was questionable at best anyway, so... ¯⁠\⁠_⁠(⁠ツ⁠)⁠_⁠/⁠¯

[@bigshortstop1931]

How did a FICTIONAL VIDEO GAME with nine crazy mercs and a SIDE GAME MODE with robots become such a cesspool of degeneracy and just sheer utter depravity?!?

[@Ad_Astra__]

It became free to play

[@Phosphorite05]

@@Ad_Astra__not even. Mann up mode is paid. Only people who pay for it go in it

[@adynatos4130]

Virgins with 0 play and a Superiority Complex man, i swear.

[@inteus64]

It's over its expiration date. Get it?

[@underplague6344]

Gambling

[@lucasartore161a]

Hey folks, late comer here, but as a longtime Left 4 Dead 2 player I just wanna say I am appalled to see there isn't a system barring kicked players from rejoining since *Left 4 Dead literally already has such a system and has for years.* Come on valve.

[@TheThiccestChungus]

Not only that, casual tf2 has some version of it. So it's just mvm.

[@Menoly]

MvM is a good casestudy on gambling causing mental health deterioration.

[@haydensiow]

What mvm does to a man

[@pogobod2128]

ah yes i play mvm and now because of this i have become schizoid

[@boppertron4929]

Seriously, the Bill Gaithers guy at the end of his power trip reminded me of The Riddler from The Batman, actually insane but somehow enticing to his two minions.

[@korhol2065]

I guess better to have an asshole directing their shit towards someone else than you

[@nylonzero9048]

Actually true.

[@HStorm26]

If you're in a clan of people gatekeeping a game and dealing out vigilante justice in a game mode in a decades old video game you need to go outside

[@dyllie1913]

The outside doesn't exist to them

[@zerefoex]

Ku Klux Klan 💪

[@LegendStormcrow]

​@@dyllie1913When Tacobot steps outside they get the FallOut first step into the wasteland screen effect.

[@owenblount7334]

Yeah that’s gay but I’m fine with Australiums being cheaper for people who don’t want to gamble

[@TheSuperappelflap]

If youre in a clan of people gatekeeping a game and dealing out vigilante justice to other clans if you lose a match or think the ref isnt being fair....oh wait thats called football.

[@welcometochiles6156]

If I get treated like a cheater even if I'm neutral, I'd be _encouraged_ to _actually_ cheat because my consequences are the same no matter what. These people's system doesn't even work to begin with. What the hell?

[@isenokami7810]

It’s just an excuse they hide behind to justify being @$$holes.

[@ventex1352]

Its not just their system that is flawed, it's the intentions and their attitudes as well. They simply make themselves look so awful that they are just bigger evil than the cheaters themselves.

[@paulvancoughnett3880]

"If I'm gonna do the time, I might as well do the crime."

[@LeBonkJordan]

Effectiveness isn't the point. The point is virtue signalling. Except their version of virtue is an absolute 100% purity Javert-from-Les-Mis simulator.

[@welcometochiles6156]

@@LeBonkJordan Oh for sure, I'm just saying "Assuming they truly and wholeheartedly believe in what they say they do, their methods SUCK." But that assumption is obviously false for sure. They just wanna soothe their insecurities by feeling like they're a part of something and simultaneously making an excuse to treat people as less than human, since it makes them feel mightier in comparison. Bleh. Nice description of it, haha.

[@conducter6381]

I really feel lucky for never encountering these people now seeing how fucked up they are

[@jumpwithkarl]

I have been playing mvm for a while now and I still never encountered these people before. Hope that streak keeps going

[@the_pootisborn]

depends on where you are from. the people he talks about are mostly american, so when youre in the EU youre relatively save from them ^^

[@Phosphorite05]

@@the_pootisbornmurica, the land of the free. Except if you think slightly different then some others

[@storm_fling1062]

​@@the_pootisborn as someone from murica I also do not get these guys

[@BonziBUDDY]

@@jumpwithkarl you and op are lucky, I run into these shart turds all the time

[@Thoast_]

"Im getting some footage" And then they decided to provide you with footage instead of just. Depriving you of it. Like leaving silently or going on with their day silently. They went aggressive and showed their true colors, so much for a "service" group.

[@wadespencer3623]

They are not particularly smart... but more importantly there are not really any consequences at all.

[@AveryHyena]

Well yeah, of course. Narcissists cannot resist a spotlight.

[@Extem1]

Thanks for bringing attention to the Mann up Animal Research Institute. I just ran into three high tours with MARI in the start of their names and before we even started they yelled at the medic for being idle (he had just loaded in). Hopped out without a word. I work for a living. Got no time to deal with fatherless behavior

[@AfunnynameWEE]

Cheaters could kill MvM by making Mann Up mode less desirable in the long term, but you know what also makes Mann Up less desirable? Being griefed at random.

[@asturias0267]

What makes Mann Up mode less desirable to me is having to pay for it.

[@patrickcrabb6212]

I've not played MvM in years, and when I first started playing tf2 it was all I played. 500 hours, 350 of which are exclusively MvM. I can't stand the cheating, buggy, toxic wastes the Mann up mode has become.

[@lumbajackthumbs7755]

The real loot devaluation was the game mode ruined along the way

[@theSparkyDub]

Yes, this is in fact the point he made in the second half of the video

[@AfunnynameWEE]

@@theSparkyDub I mean, i wasn't trying to argue with the video (i agree with basically everything in it), i just wanted to stress a specific point i guess.

[@Matt-qk8yf]

This is a great example of how the biggest losers on earth will get a high off of the smallest most wildly insignificant amount of power over other people

[@finalhour0tf239]

Just had my first encounter with Schwabbel. Hopped into a match on Bigrock, went Heavy, saw we had two afk medics and asked what was going on. Schwabbel said that this was HIS server and basically ordered me to leave. As soon as I recognized the name I fled. As much as I understand that cheating is going to kill the gamemode, I’d much rather it die to them rather than let these toxic tacobot and ex-tacos rule the game with their toxicity until they kill it themselves.

[@donutsorokin8042]

A quick, painless death Will always be preferable than being tortured like that

[@DramaticDetective]

Hi, I'm the sniper (mud) at 12:00! Not aimbotting, just godrocking. Missed half my shots. Thanks for making me a micromicroceleb!

[@VidyeoGamerer]

Celeb supporter 💀

[@unbind_all]

It’s actually super fucked up that the thing most likely to kill the MVM scene is a goddamn ethics debate, and not the developers’ negligence of game mechanics. Not that that’s a non-issue, either, it’s just a catalyst at best. We’d probably still reach this situation with or without it.

[@edward9487]

Philosophers: The fucking MVM Community: *absolute anger*

[@Jaymez2012]

Bill Gaithers, maribot and tacobot are rabbits holes that I NEED to know more about. This amount of unhinged degeneracy is damn near on the level of criminal psychology with just how psychopathic these characters are. I've never seen a phenomenon quite like this where an entire community of players intentionally make the experience of the game worse for everyone else in some sort of twisted sense of devine justice.

[@Yebby__]

The reaserchers would become alcoholics a week in

[@manxcatcoot]

The cheating debate reminds me so much of the Spanish civil war. Super factionalized, but within the factions, everyone hates each other.

[@salsaandbrwx1449]

This makes me wish I could bookmark youtube comments

[@ReySchultz121]

Don't forget how equally terrible both sides are.

[@marzipancutter8144]

@@salsaandbrwx1449 You kinda can. If you click on the indicator of how long ago the comment was posted, you will be linked to a URL of the video where said comment will be highlighted as the top comment. You can then bookmark that URL. Just thought I'd throw that Fun Fact in there.

[@JESUSWASAJUGGALO]

@@ReySchultz121 no, actually, the people fighting for democratic and egalitarian forms of government in Spain were not "equally terrible" compared to the fascist tyranny of the falangists. there were certain bad actors among the republicans, sure, and their atrocities should be condemned all the harsher for the way they reduced noble ideals to a cheap excuse for doing harm. but not one good person chose to fight for Francisco Franco, or his allies Hitler and Mussolini for that matter. good people don't take up arms and go to war for regimes that leave the people destitute, brutalize them whenever they try standing up for themselves, and aim to completely exterminate the types of humans they see as "lesser." infighting in the hat gambling community doesn't matter and it never will, but it is very serious to have a "both sides are bad" position on the axis vs. the allies. that shit is serious and still relevant even in our modern world. to this day, people are still forced to put their lives on the line in the fight against fascism in many parts of the world. take it seriously or you might have to as well.

[@ReySchultz121]

@@JESUSWASAJUGGALO I see. Do you watch Feature History? I remember hearing that much of the discontent came from how long reforms took to happen.

[@SneccTheSnake]

This whole video has just reinforced my belief that most griefing/hacking players are just lonely people with no real life power that become obsessed with the small amount of power that they can achieve in old games

[@commcrimson9999]

Projection

[@SneccTheSnake]

Found the fella that cheats in games

[@commcrimson9999]

@@SneccTheSnake I don’t?

[@dezman311]

@@commcrimson9999but he’s right, the logic checks why else would they waste their time doing this.

[@Mixxium]

Good comeback, L

[@nut1629]

It’s great to see Sam the skeleton has progressed from being herald11’s minion to someone else’s, truly the most sidekick of all time

[@megatron2171]

Gotta get that sidekick experience

[@sirgideonofnirtheall-knowi1881]

He's getting his hours in practicing to be a main antagonist some day.

[@UcroHavoc]

Not ONE HOUR after watching this I ended up in a game with Bill Gaither where he and his buddies threw an immediate temper tantrum because I picked medic on Two Cities.... You know, the place where it's usually expected for someone to play Medic? I'd assumed since they didn't have one yet it was a straight forward fill, I'd literally just joined on wave 2 and was accused of being an idle medic before I'd even left spawn. Needless to say I noped outta there soon as I recognized them, these people are unhinged and unfortunately, because they no-life the HELL out of MvM and kick people like a conveyor belt there's a distinct chance if you pick join game in progress you'll find yourself shoved into a game with these psychos, speaking from experience just nope outta there, it ain't worth it.

[@UcroHavoc]

Aaaand just got put in a game with them AGAIN, so yeah, you can definitely run into these guys with some level of reliability, if you see "MARI" in a profile name, be aware that you're in a game with people so degenerate even tacobot doesn't want them.

[@skyper8934]

​@@UcroHavocit's weird, I have about 30 tours and I've never met a single hacker, tacobot or pizzabot. Or one of those guys.

[@UcroHavoc]

@@skyper8934 I ended up with Herald11 on my 2nd tour so I dunno man guess I just have the worst luck ever. 70 tours in and I've met plenty of Tacobots, aimbot snipers and now these guys. Granted I've had some games with Tacobots where things actually went smooth and nobody got kicked so with those guys it's more a case by case basis, the Herald11 encounter for example went super smooth with nothing of note aside from him trying to deny a bunch of the stuff he did when asked about it by another player. But these MARI guys were toxic pretty much from the get-go both times I met them.

[@Siplin]

@@UcroHavoc Could it possibly be regions/time?

[@isenokami7810]

@@UcroHavocMy experience is out of date, it’s been a while since I’ve played MVM (though despite all this crap I’d like to return someday). That said, you mentioned you found these guys from “joining a game in progress”, and I have that option turned off; maybe, hopefully, starting from scratch can limit how much I’d have to deal with these people? Crossing my fingers on that if I get around to another tour.

[@ColdyCZ]

How the hell did MvM ever get to this state... This is insane...

[@martinmatin6275]

people want loot and some had opinions and it started ww3

[@fders938]

^ This and Volvo refusing to fix decade-old bugs which would take 20 minutes max to fix.

[@martinmatin6275]

@@fders938 Vàlvuelà*

[@IammeoramI]

It was always like this. The worst times to see it was during smismiss from when Valve use to give free Mannup tickets.

[@redline841]

PvE is goofy

[@DaltonIzHere]

They recently sorted the ability to airblast bots who haven’t left spawn invincibility. So Bill can’t trap people and (in theory) Gentleman’s days of antics are numbered.

[@Barrel7899]

I met that Bill Gaither guy a couple of months back and I cannot believe people like him exist. The world would genuinely be a better place without him and I hope to god he never has kids because he would definitely abuse them

[@Lilybun]

People like that dont tend to function well irl so its no surprise they're active in a niche online anarchy environment like MvM

[@daggon6987]

Relax dude, that will never happen no girl would stay with a fatherless man child like him, he will be bitchless forever.

[@Chimpin_]

i doubt anybody would want to have kids with him in the first place

[@Barrel7899]

@@Chimpin_ You'd be surprised

[@Chimpin_]

@@Barrel7899 yeah i think i would

[@boxingmiau]

How we went from Mann vs Machine to Mann vs Mannchild ?

[@bluefurryman]

And the machine somehow become the victim

[@ghoulbuster1]

Mann vs Machine vs Aimbot vs autist

[@DeadHandtheSurvivor]

​@@ghoulbuster1that isn't autism, at least you have a chance to actually talk some sense into them. No, the way these people are acting comes across more like they're narcissistic, sociopathic, and behaving like they're borderline.

[@theghosttm8245]

@@ghoulbuster1 as a person with autism holy moly do the people in the video make me upset. I’m lucky to never run into people like this.

[@mariustan9275]

@@ghoulbuster1 Thats an insult to autistic people to compare them with these devils.

[@weirdtwinkie103]

I always thought it would be funny if when they try kicking people on the last wave instead you called a vote to restart the mission so they instinctively vote f1 because they are incapable of pressing any other button

[@cubygamez3036]

43:09 that genuinely gave me a smile of hope protect this medic at all costs

[@donutsorokin8042]

A hero indeed, wey need to fing him and gift him a Golden frying pan for his actions

[@tomthestone1470]

I actually gasped

[@IXGuilmonXI]

Dude it's been several years since I've last played MvM and never in my wildest imagination could I predict how we'd get to this point. Actual insanity.

[@donutsorokin8042]

Trust me when i tell you this Will keep happening to every game and everybody; i actually decided to leave one of my favorite games because i came across one of this elitist organizations, and actively got harased by one of their leaders

[@blizzard-w9t]

@@donutsorokin8042 what game was, if it is okay i ask of course. if not igorne this comment.

[@donutsorokin8042]

@@blizzard-w9t splatoon 2 actually, i know it sounds dumb but thats game's fandom its full of toxic and weird people

[@bnick8282]

Toxic elitists are no different than griefers and hackers.

[@donutsorokin8042]

Elitists are just one kind of trash among the dumpster, where all of mvm's shit lies on

[@kevinpeixes3735]

id take a kick over a grief any time of the day

[@supercool1312]

hackers are way better actually

[@birdiementlegen226]

​​@@supercool1312 You got a good point. At least they don't complain, whine or be toxic; they just idle quietly and let everyone else play without resistance.

[@LeBonkJordan]

let's not do the radical centrist "every stongly-held belief is equally bad" routine, yeah? griefers *can be* a necessary evil *if* their targets are limited to only cheaters (and maybe hardcore racists like Gaithers), and hackers *can be* permissible in the circumstances previously outlined (again, provided they're not complete fashos). "toxic elitists" are necessarily restricted to only the toxic ones, meaning they're inherently worse in terms of toxicity than any group that includes both toxic and non-toxic members.

[@Supernoxus]

This is going to be a terrible comparision, but people's reactions about your discussions about the ethics of cheating in MvM reminds me of philosophers of the old times. They would also ask questions about topics most just agreed on and then were perceived as "corrupting the youth" even though they did nothing but make people think about what their values are. So when you go around and basically ask "Is cheating really wrong though?", people will jump at your throat and insult you for daring to question the ethics of cheating. They don't care whether you conclude that cheating is wrong. Just asking that question itself was enough for them to paint you as the enemy in a matter that they never put much thought in themselves.

[@mariustan9275]

Oh yeah, Socrates. The philosopher the higher-ups didn't liek because his philosophy basically centered around asking questions. Theres a Ted Ed video that explains this topic better, but basically Socrates would continually ask questions until they would reach the logical foundation. And since no-one likes to be questioned, people didn't like him. And how much times have changed... oh wait.

[@dani.2479]

@@mariustan9275 Sam o nella academy

[@deemaske9143]

a terrible comparision? i see it as the most accurate one

[@allegedcombustion9014]

The more things change

[@samfire3067]

And he got out My drinking Poison at old age. What a champ.

[@funkymonkey5691]

2 months later... Perma-stalling waves is, in theory, No longer possible, since bots are immune to knockback until they leave their spawn

[@Nega-Tim]

THANK CHRIST

[@420alfonzo6]

If I may add a number 5 to the list, It sounds like a block button would be good. Like in COD where you can mark someone as "do not play with this user" or whatever. That way if there's someone you don't want to play with again, you can press that button and not have to worry about joining a game with them again. Would be good for the tacobots as well.

[@bean5406]

Even roblox has that as a feature

[@AstralApparently]

​@@bean5406 as a roblox player, blocks do jack shit

[@karisasani7006]

@@AstralApparently Exactly if they know which games you tend to go to and really want to follow you... they WILL

[@TwitterMutual]

​@@AstralApparently Still better than TF2

[@AstralApparently]

@@TwitterMutual Dude. You are actively ruining your status in this comment section.

[@rotaloco30]

Cheaters are bad people who know they are bad. Griefers are bad people who think they are good. Just because they might wind up fighting each other from time to time, doesn’t make either side any less bad, especially when they hit so many innocent people in the crossfire.

[@ZhanOreo]

You have some damn balls to continue playing MvM even after the torture you went through, respect honestly

[@ventex1352]

At this point it's just passive-aggressive gesture from him. He simply doesn't care about what they come up with, he just says his opinion about the situation along with showing just how bad this situation really is.

[@scoutdy6547]

Well yeah mvm is fun. And honestly like wheezy says this is a minority. I played many mvm games and never had the problem with taco bot or cheaters or griefers. Kinda wish I did these mfers are funny Like not in the way they want just more like "omg how are you this much of a loser?"

[@Im_katty56]

I’ve genuinely never seen a game community as strange as tf2 Constantly begging and hoping that new players will join and keep the game alive At the same time constantly bullying and forcing away new players

[@Minecraftlover73]

Thing is, this is mvm, it's a whole other ballpark compared to the rest of the game.

[@Im_katty56]

@@Minecraftlover73 bud I’ve been playing tf2 for 6 years now. You know damn well that casual pvp servers are just as if not more toxic

[@Im_katty56]

@@risa1467 fair points. Just also seems that you have to deal with robots in casual more than in mvm

[@Bluestlark]

The unfortunate thing of teenagers hogging the game, thinking they're so cool but they're just being mean. I personally just find them annoying but usually most servers are chill, and there was this amazing kind young man who washed away all the curses that would make a mom cringe to kiss their child

[@Im_katty56]

@@Bluestlark it’s not teenagers it’s the 30 year olds still living with their parents that act like this

[@ArthaNara]

Imagine someone's first MvM tour is a griefer soft locking the game or them getting kicked last wave, then they never play MvM or even TF2 as a whole again

[@Polar_Pyro_YT21]

The fact that that's close to real is sad. The fact it CAN happen is scary. The fact that people are willing to do it is shameful.

[@Player_X_YT2]

I think that MVM inflation is a good thing because it encourages people to play the game not gamble their life savings

[@Polar_Pyro_YT21]

I wanna disagree, but that would be dumb because if someone attacked me for my opinion or beliefs, I wouldn't like it one bit.

[@simplysmiley4670]

Yeah. The items already hold little to no *real* value to me. You don't need skill to get those items, you just need to finish a tour. And even then it's in no way a guarantee either when you'll get the item. You could have thousands of tours and still not get anything fancy or play once and win the lottery. It's just RNG. The value is purely monetary.

[@WildcardKiana]

A little harm to the prestige of australiums is a minor price to pay if it makes them slightly easier to obtain. I'll admit that I will never understand prestige and status, but a lot of people have worked and spent a lot of money for those things in tf2, so I'm not gonna diss them for that

[@discipleofdagon8195]

If anything it'll drive traffic to other less played tours. MvM died the moment it became all about two cities.

[@Minecraftlover73]

​​@@discipleofdagon8195or kill off mann up mode in general, probably that result

[@MrDorkbot]

"One of the pyros are griefing the game" "lets kick the medic!" I lack the words to describe my confusion. I also still have no idea why valve made it so you can rejoin the same party that you were kicked from. Its a very stupid decision in my opinion.

[@Adir-Yosef]

Gentleman: WHEEZY! wheezy: gentleman! the rest of the server: wheezy! wheezy: gemtleman!! some random clueless man: hollowolf!!!

[@gipsydangeramericasmonster9632]

@@risa1467 because they don’t care anywhere near enough about the game as people think. it took the entire internet screaming at them till they couldn’t ignore it anymore for them to START maintaining it again.

[@Pudding404]

Cheating and griefing in mvm overall, going hand in hand in making the gamemode undesirable. Now that's indirect crab bucket mentality if I ever saw it. "What the f&ck is going on?!" Is the perfect thing to think if you were just neutrally playing the tour.

[@mr_pigman1013]

"There are very few people who are going to look into the mirror and say, 'That person I see is a savage monster'" ― Noam Chomsky

[@kyuumann500]

Gnome chomsky!!

[@purplehaze2358]

I'm pretty sure there are dart frogs, western taipans, blueringed octopi, box jellyfish, and deathstalker scorpions less toxic than the MVM playerbase.

[@dimsthedimwit600]

Mfer took some of the most toxic, horrible and disgusting animals earth gives us and compared them to poisonous frogs snakes etc

[@purplehaze2358]

@@dimsthedimwit600 *toxic My list included both poisonous _and_ venomous animals.

[@LuLurret]

Pretty sure the bacteria that produces botulism toxin is less toxic than this

[@theghosttm8245]

This comment is funny AND educational.

[@doctorsam9200]

You could eat a death cap and survive with the immunity gained from playing MvM

[@monsterhousecop2082]

Holy shit, how can bill have a power trip on a 12 year old game. His life in real life must be such shit that he has to act out like this in game.

[@hardboiled2987]

Its genuinely tragic lol. Im srsly fascinated by someone like this existing. What led them to this. Whats going on inside their minds?

[@dezman311]

Dudes is gonna die from health complications at a young age lol

[@MrXbow4300]

Either that or he’s that far gone

[@dickle9604]

Let them die alone Their toxic genes must NOT be spread

[@dylansummers3217]

My main take away from this video is that cheaters are bad for the economy of the game but the high tours and toxic players are bad for the gameplay of the game. You know the main part of MvM and what you do for 99% of the time so therefore the majority of griefers are worse than cheaters. I do not understand how these people do not understand they are worse in every way than playing a couple games with cheaters. Imagine a person coming to MvM after OW pve got cancelled and something like this happened in their first game.

[@Spiritchuckpvp]

I had a game about two weeks ago where our sniper was obviously cheating, so one of our teammates, let's call him Greg, asked the lobby if we were ok with kicking them. Everyone's response including my own was along the lines of "Sure, I don't care", Greg then took our apathy as being in support of the cheater. After going off on everyone for a solid minute we kicked Greg because he was a flaming douche and started the wave, only for Greg to join back in, pick pyro, and try to sabotage the wave. Greg failed, we got to laugh at him and tell him to get the fuck out of our game, and kicked Greg again while the cheater got one of their own to take his spot so he couldn't join back. Moral of the story, I'm not a cheater-supporter, I'm anti-toxicity. If the cheater was kicked I couldn't care less, but I would much rather kick the asshole glue-chugger before I'd kick the object of his ire. Both are shit for the game, one is definitely worse. But on the other hand, if there is a cheater and the lobby wants to kick them, I'm also going to press F1.

[@kellymountain]

damn lmao

[@archetexture3409]

What a brain dead take. Someone saying meanie words (all of which can be solved with the mute button) in a videogame is somehow worse than people who are actively ruining said videogame with the influx of cheaters and bots, and have been for years? Apathy towards cheaters IS supporting them. If you play a mission with someone you know for a fact is cheating, you are in fact contributing to the slow and agonizing death of this game. If you truly think people who cheat in MvM don't also cheat in the regular game, you are as ignorant as you are witless. But yeah, haha so funny the guy who was rightfully pissed that you refused to kick a blatant scripter got kicked. Dignified hilarity.

[@CodexQuinn]

Exactly. You wanna get rid of a problem, you don't become one as well.

[@imjustapotatoleavemealone]

Right. I love mvm, i play a lot, and generally i heat cheaters, but... offical missions are not balanced, the diversity of available missions are bad, and there are bugs they supposed to fix almost a decade ago. Cheating is bad, we all know it. If you don't care about the loot then a cheater is still better than a toxic player.

[@Emerson2435]

just about to comment something along the lines of ''imma be real, i'd have to agree with robotnik on 13:14, and let alone being insane enough to waste like 2$ on a tour ticket, i would rather end up wasting my money to play with a cheater who's not really effecting the game just sitting in the back of the map (not really) quietly sniping the robots and is probably afk anyways and get my loot no matter how shit it is, rather than end up wasting my money for a tour ticket and end up in a lobby with a 800+ tour sweat that complains and gripes and cries at me every time i move or use a weapon he doesn't like and get kicked last second ultimately not even getting the probably shit loot i would of gotten anyways knowing my luck''

[@alexsmith7313]

The sheer emptiness in a life required to behave with this much degeneracy is genuinely staggering. Didn’t think I would be as disgusted as the VenusianRapper video in a long time; Matt Gaither proved me wrong.

[@nikolaitheundying]

I mean if you think a guy who says gamer words is on the same level as a guy who is a pedo iirc that's your opinion I guess.

[@4zy1]

@@nikolaitheundying I don't think that's why, a lot of people could care less about someone saying the funny gamer word online. It's about the fact that these players have the dedication to make other players miserable.

[@danang5]

"hurry the fuck up i have shit to do" *immediately grief for 40 min straight after that* yeah that's a sign of a sane and reasonable person

[@Polar_Pyro_YT21]

If Bill Gaters is mentally stable, then I haven't posted a single video on KZbin ONCE.

[@Camad]

Perhaps that was, in fact, the shit he had to do.

[@donutsorokin8042]

​@@CamadIt was, most likely; like an adict rushing to get His next dose

[@mwperk02]

He was probably afk for most of that. Still an insane man child that fortunately holds no real power over anyone anywhere.

[@birdiementlegen226]

I wonder if anybody has ever told Tacobot or any other MvM elitist that they outright contradict themselves by wasting their own time.

[@bobthebox2993]

One part I take an issue with, is that the drop in market value of Australiums is directly linked to people getting "free wins". Taking the week of the infinite money glitch as an example, you claimed that the sudden drop in price was because everyone was using a glitch that gave them free wins. While I think this did play a small part in this, I don't think it's the main reason. For many people MvM is just kinda boring, the missions, teams and gameplay is almost always the same. So when a glitch came along that allowed them to get more upgrades and experiment a bit, play the mode a little differently than they were used to, it attracted more people to play MvM during that week, which is, in my eyes, the main cause of the price drop. There was a sudden influx of players that wanted to experience the glitch before it got patched. More people playing the gamemode means more loot.

[@au-198]

Yes I think this is absolutely true. I don’t think playing with full upgrades dramatically shortened match times (I did it myself) however it just drew a lot more attention to MVM so more people were playing thus more items were dropping. That kind of invalidates the whole “cheating makes Australiums worthless” argument since cheating doesn’t increase or decrease the overall player count by much.

[@snkybrki]

​@@au-198 Cheating or not, you definitely still gotta play the map, but you do so quicker, with greater ease, and with dynamically less chance of failure. This would absolutely impact a market. If there's less risk to do something, as well as that thing being made dynamically easier, a lot more people will do it. I don't know how exactly this would influence MVM markets, but it would definitely devalue things to some degree. Which, as Weezy mentions, would devalue the mode itself.

[@au-198]

@@snkybrki I’m not disputing that point or sayings it’s wrong, what I am saying is that there is a big possibility that it was the sheer amount of players in the game mode during the time of the exploit that led to the devaluing of Australiums, not just because the exploit shortened games. See and if it was the amount of players getting loot that caused prices to go down then we see an interesting paradox. Weezy says that if Australiums remain rare and expensive then more players will want to play MvM, but if more players complete missions Australiums will lose more and more value just because more loot will be dropped overall. This in turn, according to his logic, means less people will play MVM as there is less incentive. So basically “more players = more loot drops = lower loot value = less players,” none of this is really all that affected by cheating since it’s the mere act of completing missions not the time it takes that is the biggest factor in lowering loot value.

[@snkybrki]

@@au-198 "That kind of invalidates the whole 'cheating makes Austrailiums worthless' argument since cheating doesn't increase or decrease the total player count by much." is a comment that doesn't specifically relate to the bug. You were saying that his "cheating makes austrailiums worthless" is incorrect, in of itself, because of things related to the bug abuse. Perhaps that was not your intention, but it was certainly what you said. Now, when it comes to your point about how if austrailiums became worth much less, less cheaters would be playing to begin with, thus making them worth somewhat more and increasing the price again, I actually agree with you. The thing is that, through all this, the game mode would have turned much more volatile. Youd have an expectation to have to cheat to play, as so much of the playerbase are playing just to optimize returns from the market. Casual players would have to go fuck themselves even harder than they already do. Basically, the "fun" factor in MVM would have been significantly kneecapped by the community's market optimization via cheating and other outside services. We all know that it's a toxic waste, imagine how much worse it could get. And all that's assuming that the supply is actually so elastic. Remember, a lot of these cheaters could be playing just for the dopamine of gambling and shooting stuff. Even if pulls were worth less, I'd wager a lot of cheaters would still play, just because they enjoy the mode. This would consistently devalue drops to a certain degree, we just don't know how much specifically, as the elasticity for supply and demand in the mode is unknown. But yeah. In short, I agree mostly with what you said about the supply and demand, it's just that there are repercussions beyond just item prices for cheating en mass.

[@bobthebox2993]

@@au-198 I'm glad you managed to see what I was getting at without me explicitly stating it. The whole "The devaluing of items is bad because less players will want to play the gamemode" argument felt a little weak when it seemed like the main thing devaluing those items, was more people playing.

[@DEWILL]

Again it proves that the justice is worse than the evil. Cause people self-proclaims them as a ‘Team Justice’ don’t bother to criticize themselves at all. Those ‘Gas Passer must be destroyed’ people, and ‘Cheater and their supporters should go to hell as a whole’, people, so many others, too. + I’ll leave a salute here to your mental capability to stay sane after all of this. You magnificent man.

[@callmeciko1055]

Omgg

[@Goldstandard_1]

"When does the Hero become the Villain?"

[@starmaker75]

I think the better term is that the worst evil is the one that said it justice.

[@spongygames]

Between those who get mildly annoyed at you for pointing them out for cheating, and those who go ham when you have an opinion, I'd pick the former. Doesn't matter where, on or off the net; if you're going Scorched Earth for what *should* right, I'd just push you into your own demise instead for what *would* be right.

[@mendyshelios0451]

Moral of the story... never play mvm alone. (edit, never play Mann Up alone)

[@TheSurvivor637]

As someone who exclusively plays Boot Camp, I’ve only seen a few high level MvM players. Those guys were pretty nice, and one’s whole thing was teaching newer players how to play effectively. Mann Up meanwhile has…well…this. I’ll be honest, it’s made me want to avoid playing Mann Up all together and would rather just buy Australiums rather than find myself in a lobby with these types of people.

[@superexplosion5985]

By griefer logic anyone that watches this video is worthy of being griefd

[@noobez8o]

woof.. better get to work then

[@Polar_Pyro_YT21]

@@noobez8o To clarify, anyone who agrees with the "cheater supporters", EVEN IF they DO NOT play TF2, is ALSO a cheater supporter.

[@korhol2065]

Imagine playing overwatch and a tf2 mvm griefer that made you quit mvm joined your game, picked mei, and proceeded to grief you and your team because you support cheaters At least until they realize no one appreciates his little tantrum and spam report him

[@mintgoldheart6126]

​@@Polar_Pyro_YT21 Damn, that's literally me.

[@EvanSakaguchi]

Guess it’s a good thing that my computer is on a newer version that can’t play tf2

[@kryla_]

the "KIIIIICK TIIIIIIME" shit wouldnt even have gotten me mad i wouldve been dying of laughter

[@CapnCoconuts]

I would be bewildered by the power-tripping lunatic and wondering what his personal life is like for him to behave like this in a video game.

[@thomasfinch6292]

For real, this is just pathetic. I’d be laughing at them, at this point

[@SaintRedFox]

CUE THE MUSIC

[@Apophus]

ok, as toxic as bill's kick time is, when he started the music and saying it so enthusiastically I couldn't help but laugh my ass off

[@mrundy9351]

It's likely the only joy he gets out of life.

[@superkobold54]

The fucking laugh too... "HWOOOOHOOHOOHOOHOOO"

[@iamthecheesegod]

I can’t imagine how hard it was for you to play with those guys for 40 minutes without saying “thanks for the free content”

[@randomguyltu8208]

33:00 With that energy, he could become a Borderlands antagonist.

[@LeviForWaifu]

I have immortalized your quote in my clip of KICK TIME Excellent work bud

[@thedarkone246]

Greifers are worse then cheaters (in mvm) and its not even close. At absolute worse for cheaters, the price of some items go down, and the game mode may suffer slightly (though I disagree personally). Some people may get some 'unearned victories' but I don't give a shit about that personally. The worst that happens when someone griefs is... someone gets dog-piled with the most vile racist, sexist and bigoted language imaginable, they get potentially up to an hour of play time wasted out of sheer megalomaniacal spite. They get followed around for potentially years being subjected to the attention of some of the worst human beings the internet has to offer. They may get doxxed, they may receive death threats, have every other account they hold to get stalked, and harrassed, forcing them to delete lest they end up the focus of these psychopaths for sometimes years at a time. Sure kick the cheater if your friends don't want that vibe, but these kinds of vile nutjobs should be kicked on sight before they get a chance to so much as sputter the beginnings of their favorite slur.

[@Nega-Tim]

Yes

[@crumpscrumbs]

16:45 It legitimately baffles me these guys knew who you were, meaning they knew about your relatively large voice in the TF2 / MVM community, but instead of (at least attempting to) gaining your favor, they very clearly push you away and essentially give you ammo to ruin the name of their community. And just when I was about to say “Oh, they’re privating their profiles, these guys learned from Tacobot’s / Pizzabot’s mistakes”

[@unbind_all]

Seriously, he straight-up said in his first cheating video to not associate with groups like Tacobot or Pizzabot, they’re both toxic. Continually trying to dunk on someone like this isn’t helping their case.

[@ShockInazuma]

@@unbind_all Let’s be real, is there ANY group in MvM that ISN'T toxic?

[@STULF20X6]

​@@ShockInazuma with no toxic members? No Overall? Sort of. There are some really chill high tours that are only looking to relax who vaguely associate with each other.

[@Hitoshuratdn]

​@@unbind_allwas pizza bot toxic? Of course they are cheaters but I saw them being cordial most of the time.

[@TheGlenn8]

They're attention whores. Obviously they'll act like idiots when given the opportunity.

[@gabagool3502]

Who knew the CEO of the mvm animal research group spent a hour of his day pressing a single button, he’s literally Christian Bail

[@TalleyBellum]

These videos make me feel really fortunate that I don't have the cash to play mann up mode

[@Musicbox_6]

Boot camp hell is why comunity maps exist

[@chasekellow3835]

Diamonds are in fact only expensive because they're shiny. Diamonds are incredibly common and buying them for industrial use is less than 20 cents per diamond. Australiums are the same way. When you see it you don't think "that person put in a lot of work to get a rare weapon" you think "That person payed a lot of money for something shiny"

[@denekhesab.2527]

This should have more likes for how true it is

[@simplysmiley4670]

This is very true. Australium isn't a sign of being a skileld veteran, it just means you got money to throw out on the market or gambled in MvM as it's not even a guarantee you'll get it *ever.*

[@donpollo3154]

The funny thing for me is that there are literally servers where you can use Australiums for free, so, at least for me, it's just not that impressive

[@watergaming7543]

Personally, It's not as satisfying to just go out and buy an australium than it is to put in a bunch of hours to get one yourself. It's all about the thrill to me honestly

[@chasekellow3835]

@@watergaming7543 people say that about gambling too

[@sunbuYT]

It's ridiculous that people do this on their main accounts, let alone in general. This happens every tour now, but then again Valve isn't going to do anything about it. At least until the summer, MAYBE.

[@starmaker75]

This is one of the reason why I like the community mvm waves, sure you only can get pacipate trophies, but atleast you don’t have deal with cheaters and grieves.

[@megatron2171]

Thats why recently i only play the halloween coaltown only , and thats on boot camp

[@ShockInazuma]

Eh, don’t count on it.

[@vincentdolente7053]

Sad to see somany delusional people. Foolishly holding onto hope.

[@sunbuYT]

there's a reason i said maybe, people seem to get mad when other say maybe... hmmm...

[@TheWondersOfFun]

42:20 - 42:35 This has the strength to make anyone laugh despite the context given never thought the medic would pay such consequences by just getting in the way of a high tour vs high tour tennis match

[@jinodapuppet]

This shit is heinous… and people wonder why Valve doesn’t want to update the game? Because we have people like this and worse running rampant. I’m lucky to not have run into any of these people, and I’m sorry for those who have. Hopefully this stuff gets patched soon.

[@Maynarkh]

Don't you blame the entire community for Valve's negligence. Half the reason these dickholes are even able to grief is down to Valve leaving game breaking bugs in the game.

[@paloma6951]

To me it's just ming boggling how these kind of individuals exist. Where are their parents? How did they grow up to be like this? How are they paying for their household to continue doing this? I cannot imagine working with or hiring someone like this.

[@VanessaMagick]

The vast majority of them still live with their parents who obligingly put up with their 28-year-old sons screaming from the basement.

[@dyllie1913]

Their parents didn't give a shit about them

[@korhol2065]

This isn’t taking into account that these people have the money to spend on multiple laptops and computers just to grief efficiently in mvm

[@Ploxtifs_OldAndDeadAccountXD]

6:10 I remember getting a pro ks minigun kit during the time this exploit was active, which I sold to help fund an Australium Eyelander which I named “TD_Buyback”

[@theunnamedaccount4009]

The point made on how people villainised Weezy for questioning the ethics of the situation really speaks so largely about current social media. I imagine not many people feel that strongly about the situation, they just want to feel high and mighty, as if they're doing something right. In reality, they're sitting behind a phone screen, screeching at a person that doesn't have a voice against the onslaught from the giant crowd that somehow just appeared out of nowhere. Can you tell this happened to me once, and how it mentally scarred me? I'm not going to name any topics I would also put under this umbrella (that's how you paint a target on your back for these people), but you get the gist of things I hope

[@Polar_Pyro_YT21]

That sounds freaking horrendous and I hope you can recover as soon as possible. If you desperately need help, therapy is a common solution. I just hope that doesn't happen to me.

[@ventex1352]

​@@Polar_Pyro_YT21just don't use any large social medias too much and you'll be fine And if you do, just avoid these kinds of topics, it's clear that only irrational people would get into those swamps of degeneracy

[@FANG-2005]

I can only agree with this. The thought and idea that suddenly out of nowhere. You can be chastised and ridiculed despite showing a clear point is ridiculous.

[@godusopp1797]

Your first video was so good that I would genuinely on occasions sit down for a rewatch as if it was Cinema This video may have the symptoms of a sequel and may never get the same amount of views, but I will adore it twice as much as the first, because it feels like a gift to me, a loot drop at the end of a smooth day of MvM where your just like, "Damn, this is why I play."

[@Polar_Pyro_YT21]

What "Sequel Symptoms"?

[@godusopp1797]

@@Polar_Pyro_YT21 Echoing information and inside jokes from the first episode Alongside an audience stigma where if they didn't enjoy the first episode, they probably won't watch this one at all (Its less of a critic and more of a function on how popular the video will be)

[@godusopp1797]

@@risa1467 Whoa! Wtf bro! tl;dr!

[@unsuspiciousdweller8967]

9:20 Counterpoint: They're lines of code made artificially scarce as an excuse to make people gamble. Gambling should never have been a part of MvM, and i'm honestly surprised lootboxes have been made illegal in several countries yet MvM is still allowed. Australiums feel like the poor man's bitcoin in terms of being valued because others say its valuable. At least you can physically hold a diamond and use it for tools, what use does a block of code that makes a yellow version of an in-game weapon serve?

[@zphyr3387]

It's funny how nearly all of this could be avoided if Valve made Bosses airblast-proof...

[@Underworlder5]

could do it like in zombie escape: the more you airblast them, the more resistant they become. would discourage stalling/spamming and encourage fewer, but meaningful pushes (for example, a robot is only one or two pushes away from the crusher in mannhattan)

[@yeetdabeans3883]

i think it would be better if they just allowed robots to attack if they stay inside the invincibility zone for too long

[@wheeliethebin]

it's funny how nearly all of this could be avoided if valve were competent developers

[@deyontemyers4109]

​@@wheeliethebinthier competent...just beyond lazy

[@750TheBoss]

Adding a large trigger_push brush or any other kind of solid brush behind that covers the entire spawn area would easily fix the issue of airblasting robots out of bounds

[@mariustan9275]

Maybe make it so spawning robots have knockback invulnerability.

[@Hello_World_not_taken]

@@mariustan9275 this is GOLD

[@750TheBoss]

@@Hello_World_not_taken Almost, except you can still airblast robots back into spawn, when they go down. So as Weezy puts it, we should cover all our bases to rule it out entirely. Though, I still doubt Valve would recompile their maps to implement my fix. As far as I know they rarely recompile maps, and adding new brushes requires exactly that.

[@Underqualified_Gunman]

@@750TheBoss it wouldn't require a recompilation of the map actually since you can modify anything relating to entities (brush entities included) this has been part of source since gold source at least.

[@750TheBoss]

​@@Underqualified_GunmanGood, I'm only somewhat knowledgable in l4d2 mapping, so I figure it's pretty outdated compared to tf2

[@xxcringe_lordxx1159]

The best part? literally everyone who doesn’t play MvM could give less of a shit, but Tacobot is so hated in the TF2 community, im scoffing at the ridiculousness of their logic.

[@qaaris4280]

After seeing and hearing your encounter with Bill, I'm fucking _astounded_ that somebody can be so ungodly annoying, while also not having enough self-awareness to want to change that about himself.

[@Jaymez2012]

That's because he's a clear example of a psychopath. Him and the rest of his maribot cult. They don't care about anything except for feeding their unhinged power fantasy. If they weren't choosing to spend their time dicking around in TF2 of all places you can be damn sure that they probably would have formed a cult irl.

[@gyroninjamodder]

6:22 It kind of is. Diamonds are not expensive due to their rarity, but rather due to marketing make them seem valuable.

[@bob_10st]

this little factoid about diamonds had became so cliché and overstated that it has gotten to the point that it isn't even true anymore, companies like DeBeers cant meet demand any more

[@mrdeadmemes]

​​@@bob_10st and if the marketing didn't make them seem as valuable as they do, people wouldn't be willing to pay as much, and the demand would go down.

[@genzo454]

@@bob_10st bro you can grow diamonds. The supply of diamonds is truly only limited by companies either refusing to sell lab-grown diamonds, or by the rate at which you can grow diamonds (it takes quite a while)

[@coolgirladrian]

I had an experience with Basil. It was on Botbash, and they joined wave 4, picking Soldier ( similar to me and 2 others, making a team of 4 soldiers, 1 heavy, 1 engie ) and they helped us out. They said nothing, and we completed the match

[@craigkuhlman6869]

There mercifully must not have been anything that'd make Basil want to grief.

[@bigdingus9333]

Oh my bloody god. I remember way way long ago when MvM came out and being young, I’d just cruise along and play random missions just for fun. And now we have this. We can poke fun at every other community for being toxic, but this is genuinely the most pathetic and spiteful behaviour I’ve seen. How? How did this happen? It’s just a cooperative mission mode, how can people like Bill be THIS awful? It’s baffling. Anyway, lmao

[@TARINunit9]

I'm honestly surprised people like Gentleman, Bill Gather, and people who develop cheats in the first place don't have their Steam accounts wiped. Not just banned from TF2, their whole Steam accounts. Every game they spent money on, every item they bought keys for, wiped out. Because all this _garbage_ they are fighting this war over has got to be EXTREMELY against Valve's TOS to some degree, right?

[@royalhydra9790]

They’re such degenerate gamblers that even if they break TOS, dropping them is like losing out on easy money. They’re practically in a cult around the game, so in any companies best interest, you keep em, until they run dry

[@TARINunit9]

@@royalhydra9790 Even if we assume Valve are that morally bankrupt, griefers actively prevent other gamblers from advancing, from moving onto their *next* roll of the dice. That's also very bad for business. If a man is running around a casino shoving and punching people away from the slot machines, security aren't going to give him a free pass just because he puts a couple quarters in himself every now and then

[@supremeleader1304]

If having an australium was actually indicative of skill and a grand accomplishment, I would care that cheaters are cheating for them. But as it stands, its literally just cosmetic bullshit that you can BUY. It's not indicative of jack shit, just that you spent money and got it through luck or a seller. And with everything I know about the TF2 market... Fuck the sellers, artificially making prices of these things as high as they are. Valve shoulda put prices on everything from the start to stop these leeches gatekeeping a fucking weapon cosmetic because they're "make a living" off of it. Cheaters keep cheating, please.

[@crumpscrumbs]

32:42 Legitimately baffles me Bill Caither was kicked from the toxic group for being too toxic and is too dense to consider improving who he is as a person.

[@JouvaMoufette]

That's how it tends to work. Their mental state is such that in their eyes, they are the ones in the right, and everyone else is wrong, rather than try to improve themselves.

[@curlytraveler3558]

Tbh i think he rinda revels in whatever pathetic excuse for ""power"" he can have over others.

[@archetexture3409]

He was not kicked. He left on his own volition.

[@ghoulbuster1]

That what what complete mental deficiency does to a man.

[@angel89775]

a good addition would be a one way spawn wall and knockback immunity to spawning robots. just make it so theyre unable to be knocked around while in spawn, and make them immune to being able to be put back into spawn once they drop down.

[@mariustan9275]

That would definitely help prevent this griefing.

[@purplehaze2358]

It's a sad state of affairs when Tacobot's actually managed to succeed in tearing down pizzbot - yet opened the doors wide open for something much, _much_ worse.

[@terrorkaka]

And to think all of this depravity started with a single weapon. From a 6 year old update. “Besides, heavy mains losing the competition is a tragedy, but nothing to start a major war over.” *”That’s just the spark, son. The excuse we’ve been waiting for.”*

[@luigifan4585]

It's not even about the weapon, it's the blatantly overpowered upgrade Valve gave the weapon in MvM that takes even less skill to get value out of than Explosive Headshot. There's a reason that the most notable community MvM servers Potato MvM/Moonlight MvM prevent the upgrade from being bought server-side. Than said, I will never condemn someone for using an effective strategy, I just wish that the TF2 devs didn't decide to throw balance out the window with that upgrade.

[@dkskcjfjswwwwwws413]

​@@luigifan4585tfw pyro is now relegated to m1ing the tank (fun gameplay)

[@Valsorayu]

Watching the MVM community tear itself apart is such a great case study into the prolonged effects of cognitive dissonance in an attempt to validate your gambling addiction. (this is a joke, in case you need to be told)

[@Nega-Tim]

Nah, I legit believe that these guys have brain rot.

[@entothechesnautknight1762]

I think the main issue here is the game mode is just abandoned. We probably wouldn't be having this conversation at ALL if the fun new MVM content was... *Actually accessable* to the majority of the player base, but for some reason, Value refuses to add any community made MVM maps to even just the casual, free maps you can select for boot camp, and shunts them off to obscure community servers, where they only exist temporarily before being shunted into the void, leaving gambling as the ONLY thing most of the player base can access. *Especially* since you can't even play those new, shiny, fun looking MVM maps once the event ends. For all but the most dedicated players, they might as well be outright deleted on the event ending, because they're never gonna be able to get a full game set up on a private server, if they even know where the fuck you download these in the first place. Meanwhile, what's there? What's available? What's always the only option that you can reliably choose? Mann Up. Gambling. That's it. This would likely not be a heated topic if there was anything to do in MVM aside from gamble. But there isn't. So this is all there is to do. And this is all there is to talk about. The only way for the average player to have fun on MVM is to gamble. And that's the only reason this whole debacle (cheating, Tacobot, Pizzabot, etc) exists is because of that fact. Let me be perfectly clear; if there was literally any injection of content *at all* that wasnt ethereal and obtuse in nature, we would mot be having the discussion if player retention in MVM, because *the players would have a reason to stay other then gambling.*

[@licemere9899]

it seems that in valve any dev trying to actively support tf2 gets punished by other devs in team

[@crumpscrumbs]

46:03 - 51:00 That was legitimately eye-opening and an amazing listen. As someone fascinated in human psychology, I loved hearing about what makes people tick and how some people will come to hasty conclusions. This entire MVM Toxicity debacle is very deep and has a lot to it, but I think it boils down to a cautionary tale of understanding that life is ALWAYS filled with greys, no matter how black and white things look. Thinking otherwise comes with consequences you either won’t consider until the damage is done, or consequences you’ll never become aware of and foster more toxic traits in you. Scary thought.

[@notarealspy4090]

Unfortunately some groups out there regardless of stance on any matter, will choose to paint the situation as Black and White, either to make the message go through easier, Use it as a means to an end, or because they're unable to confront the depth to the matter

[@Underworlder5]

doubt is important. if you reach the point where you think every action is justified and that you are always right, that leaves the opportunity for you to become no better than the ones you oppose. i am strongly against cheating, but i am not doing to take drastic measures to oppose them, especially at the risk of innocents getting involved

[@mariustan9275]

@@notarealspy4090 Because people don't want to use their brains or don't wanna look stupid for admitting they are wrong. There is nothing wrong with admitting you are at fault. It IS stupid for you to continueosly say you are right, even if you yourself know you are wrong.

[@OgichiGame]

If you're putting stock in TF2 items hoping they retain some kind of value then you deserve to lose money.