[TF2] Was Quickplay better than Casual?

[@Kellraiser]

I tried to get a friend into tf2 a couple weeks ago. His first question on the main menu was “how do I play the game?” That alone should be a damning rebuke of casual matching making. In the quick play era there was a button that said FIND A GAME right in the middle of the screen impossible to miss.

[@tomas6621]

Mind sharing your terible axperences with casual?

[@kingkrool94]

There is no serious argument against Quickplay. Also bring back mods and sprays, I miss them

[@TheSwankTF]

on god

[@americanmapping832]

It's been what? 8 odd years? Learn to let things go. Everyone's used to the modern server browser. No reason to switch it.

[@Frosto236]

@@americanmapping832 Oh there's the "It's old let it go!" non argument, bots were also 8 years but they finally did something about the bots even tho I did encountered some engie bots a few days ago, guess when bots started appearing by the way? a few days after meet your match came out, bots will always try to come back as long as the matchmaking system is in place.

[@americanmapping832]

@@Frosto236 difference: bots made the game unplayable There's not a single reason to change what we've had for the past 8 years. Everyone is used to it. Changing it only serves to add division between people that's been using it for the past 8 fucking years, and old heads that are too stuck up to let anything go. Stick to the thing everyone has used. Stick to the thing everyone knows how to use.

[@gamerbeginner5019]

​@americanmapping832 you cry about it ?

[@FortressForge-Animations]

i never was around for quickplay but it sure does sound better than casual, i really hate how quick casual matches are

[@rightbehindyou9398]

5 minutes of queueing and 1 minute of gamepay (if you're lucky)

[@ridestridservsky]

0:05 oh sh*t, it's batman...

[@PYBR0]

Should have also brought up the old gamerule settings like the 45 minute server timer, team scramble, being able to choose your team and spectating.

[@DrWAHReal]

#BringBackQuickplay all the way! let's go!

[@sounzd]

I havent played team fortress 2 when Quickplay was a thing, but from description i can tell this was a good system to make people stay more in the game rather casual nowadays

[@iammonke5970]

Short answer. Yes. Quickplay was better in every way and Casual owns no positive upside over it in any way shape or form. Alot of newer players don’t know that because they weren’t even here during the peak years of TF2. We need it back. #BringBackQuickplay

[@jonashormann5700]

I think another dumb thing casual added is the scoreboard when the map ends. I don't know ANYONE who is interested in the damage that Chad Thundercock did with a kritz medic girlfriend on him 24/7. Just give us the next map pls

[@FrancisL4D]

Yes objectivly.

[@iammonke5970]

Your conclusion really confuses me.. The UI being better now than I was during peak TF2? Sorry but I don’t just disagree, I think that’s flat out wrong. The old UI was WAY more appealing than what we have now. Back in the day you used to be able to easily find the server browser, and instead of being given an ugly list of gamemodes and the respective names, you were greeted by the charming and cartoonish artworks featuring each gamemode, and when you picked what you wanted, you were shown the servers, where each map had its own postcard, giving you an idea of where you were going if you weren’t familiar with it yet. It was faster too, way faster than waiting for the queue to decide to work or not, and I never had any trouble finding an obscure map full or at least full enough with players to have a good game.

[@jonashormann5700]

Aye, the 'peak quickplay' system was no rocket science. I think it's also crazy that the casual button is in the top right corner next to the exit button. The quickplay button at least was in a spot where it looks like it's the first button you're gonna click.

[@TheSwankTF]

I was really referring to the visual polish of the UI like the graphics and logos. I agree that it is functionally aids.

[@jonashormann5700]

@ I think even then QP had more charm with it's drawings of the objective. And the server browser gave good pictures of the maps that you're going to join. Imo casual is also a downgrade in that regard.

[@rightbehindyou9398]

@@jonashormann5700 casual does not have any preview of any of the maps at all, you just have to check boxes and guess or find out, that's not great quality of life nor ui design, despite what the video uploader fella says

[@CoolSs]

11:07 Here where i respectfully disagree. there is only two true additions Casual mode brought into the table and i can argue they are net negative. Map selection and guarantee party of 6:- Map selection: by the nature of this system. people will start filtering maps on mass. what will results of 90% of players playing only in 2% of the maps. honestly, when was the last time you played on nightfall doom day or hydro ? if you deselect the dominant five maps in the que system. your queuing will take longer. instead of the old days, where you could just ad hoc any map you love and it would have players when using "show server" option. tf2 have more maps today then back then but people still play on the same five maps over and over (tho most maps post 2018 are trash) correction. the system keep putting them in the same five maps over and over. no player agency. Party of 6: This is the biggest reason why every 8/10 games are just steam rolls. this is not exclusive tf2 problem but with every game that have squads with matchmaking. 6 skilled players vs the other team with random level of skill will always be one sided (the lack of team scramble make this problem worse). this used to be called "team stacking" and it was frowned upon it back in the days. (not talking about playing with your other two friends here) the matchmaking system try to balance it using its hidden rating system that honestly never worked and will never work. the team of randoms normally will have two good players but tf2 is game of 12v12. 2 good players can't carry the team, especially when they are against other 6 as skilled players. also how can you define skill in tf2. does the hoovy throwing sandwich in the corner but top scoring helping with the game ? tf2 is chill game. not this comp game that resemble nothing of how tf2 used to be played.... casually. sadly, we need to go all the way back then see if we can improve QP. and do we really need to improve 9/10 system (QP) vs 4/10 system (casual) ?

[@jonashormann5700]

To back up your second claim: If it was clear that one team was steamrolling the other, you could vote for a scramble, which was often successful. And even if the vote didn't pass, after a few rounds the teams would scramble automatically. Casual only randomly selects a player and drops them in the other team if that team doesn't have enough players. For the rest there's no balancing whatsoever between the teams.

[@CoolSs]

@jonashormann5700 What irks me about casual but no one point it out. People used to play on the same server for hours. Yes even Valve pub servers. So even if you get one unbalanced round. When it finish and we get auto team scrambled. People knew if they stayed the game will get better. Now a days. Everyone leaves the moment the match ends so if by luck you got one balanced match. The next one won't be and because how broken casual is. It will take 20m to rebalanc the match. It's endless cycle of steam rolls. This is not even touching out on how MYM and JI ruined more then half of the play styles by the many nerfs we got. (go figure, making balancing to fit 6 vs 6 when the game is designed to be 12 vs 12 didn't work) #BringBackQuickPlay #UnDoMYMNerfs all the way (god we want mods and sprays back too)

[@LifeofSquidMann]

Come play on Castaway if you want something almost like Quickplay

[@lucassollak1574]

I played it, and I loved it, even though I had been playing on lagging servers until then. The idea of bringing the weapons back to their most glorious state is amazing.

[@Dafuqinator7]

Short answer: Yes. Long Answer: Yes.

[@zionmolina3039]

I do miss being able to switch teams, and spectate. I really think that could be brought back into casual.

[@MechaMike]

Yes it was

[@creeperithink]

only good tf2 youtuber out there

[@Dubauabud]

Im sorry but I highly disagree with quickplay being harder to understand. The server browser I can agree on but if child me from a decade ago could understand quickplay in a few seconds, im sure even the more brainrotted gen alpha kid could. Quickplay was really simple to understand, you clicked on what you wanted and were thrown into a match in seconds. Casual on the other hand is honestly overwhelming and tells you nothing at all about the maps. Where as quickplay if you sorted for the best server you would at least see a preview of what you were getting, where as with casual you just get a name and that's it.

[@FakeCoconut-v7o]

Why is this even a question?

[@26dollar]

they should just allow ad-hoc connections and let me manually pick a server if i want to

[@wallacelopes8579]

Your voice is so AI like but I love it lol, sound like a high production podcast

[@franceshaha]

As someone who didn't ever really play during the quickplay era, I can't say which is better. I like your idea of a modified quickplay instead of just quickplay OR casual, a good balance between the best of both worlds. My biggest issue with casual is the fact that it has seemingly killed community servers, or at least gotten rid of LOTS of them. I pretty much exclusively play Uncletopia for a bunch of reasons, but a big one is getting to hop into a server that feels like it has an actual community behind it. It's something that I think modern gaming is sorely missing

[@CoolSs]

in the Golden age of Quickplay (2014-15) every server was like that with it's own regular players. Even Valve servers with Ad hoc had that same sense of micro community in them when you spend playing with the same group of people for 3h. Quick Play enabled that. it give you player agency instead of this pointless modern MMR. where every match is forced to play certain way and end when the developer say so.

[@tomas6621]

I am hiting the fuck go back buton. There in nothing good in the curent system. The old one had the play now buton so it was strait up esier to undestand.

[@Iciclefairy]

Yes

[@lucassollak1574]

I've been playing TF2 since August and I actually have no problems with not having a preference for maps or game modes, but it's still unnecessarily slow. I see Casual as Valve's attempt to connect Fun players with Competitive players, perhaps as a training ground, that failed because, well, I don't see anyone playing Competitive Mode. Many "fun veterans" say that it is thanks to Casual that bots entered Valve's official servers, and if that is really true... then I will make a fuss. If I were Valve, I'd add back Quickplay (maybe a little better) for those players looking for something specific, while keeping Casual (which I'd rename to Autosearch). And better yet, it would improve Competitive to have disputes for prizes like strange weapons, cosmetics and Australiuns weapons.

[@XXVII_The27th]

idk bro i joined in 2023 how the fuck should i know

[@xeromachinimas]

I've seen the quickplay UI before it was replaced by MyM. If you can't understand how that quickplay UI works you don't deserve to use a computer lol. I didn't really understand your argument against quickplay btw. For the people that "just want to get into a game" and don't care what map/gamemode it is, wasn't quickplay pretty good at finding games for these peopl quickly too?

[@monothephantom]

I never played in the era of quickplay, but it does sound better on many fronts from what I've heard. I've sat in queues for casual for ages only to get sent to a server on the other end of the continent. I do like cycling maps more than staying on one map forever, but I've played enough community servers with rtv functionality instead of a forced reload, and it worked perfectly fine for getting maps in rotation, and it lets people nominate maps. Playing on casual also leaves me in empty servers a lot. If you play long enough without disconnecting, you'll end up in a lobby with anywhere from 4 people to just you, and most of the time, no one new joins. Overall, I think there is some kind of middle ground that would be ideal, shame Valve won't be updating the system anymore.

[@nolader28]

yes

[@marconious6906]

I like most of this video but casual DOES have a ping filter. I am never connected to any server with more than 70 ping personally. It's in the matchmaking settings menu which you can ONLY access by clicking your profile in the top left where the party area is.

[@CoolSs]

fair point but for folks with low population tf2 area (me). it will literally take 20m to find a game if i lower my ping. when Quickplay was a thing, we had few community servers here and i could ad hoc into them easily. post MYM all of them died. the matchmaking killed them so i am forced to play with bad ping. We got servers here but they are empty. QP could bring back players to play in them.

[@TheSwankTF]

LMAO forgot this existed. I don't even know where it is on the main menu.

[@clownaround_town]

return quickplay, the only thing that should stay is badge i dont care about other things that casual offers just badge

[@Hennns]

yea

[@itsybitsytheengineermain2398]

I agree completely, as someone who vaguely remembers quick play I can say that we should push for a modified Quick Play.

[@nickname5447]

I also like the badge system

[@s0wanz]

why cant quickplay and casual co-exist?

[@trigger_once]

Well they kinda can't but I do think the nice features of Casual should be put into quick play i.e partying up with your friends and some of the UI

[@alex_zetsu]

How did quickplay help community servers? Valve had to blacklist some servers because some servers would lie about their settings like saying they gave no in game advantage to donors or saying they had random crits enabled when these statements were false. Eventually they got fed up with the wack a mole with this bad minority and had quickplay default to official servers. You had to untick that box to join a community server by quickplay. So if the default settings dumped people to official servers, how can community servers benefit from quickplay?

[@rightbehindyou9398]

so you just assume that no one checked the community server setting?

[@alex_zetsu]

@@rightbehindyou9398 I kind of do assume that. When I found my favorite community servers (back when they were alive) I just swapped between official Valve servers and community servers depending on how I was feeling (or if my favorites had at least 17 players since joining and having less than 8 teammates is not fun). You know what I never did? Use quickplay without the default setting. I was people who bought the original Orange Box almost never used quickplay and to this day they'd use the server browser if they could get into official servers with them. So if I only used quickplay on its default settings and if Orange Box veterans beardly touch quickplay, what kind of players used quickplay on non default setting? There were plenty of people who went to community servers back in the day, but I kind of assume they'd be like me who was using the server browser. The only way someone would have ended up in a community server using quickplay was to use quickplay and then change its default settings. However quick play... for the lack of a better word, kind of was bad. Most often it would put you into a game that was populated, but every now and then you'd end up in a server than was 1 vs 1, 3 vs 4, 6 vs 6, or 0 vs 0 while waiting to populate. Sure maybe this happened 1 out of 8 times on non-CTF mode and maybe 1 out of 100 when looking for CTF, but it really shouldn't happen at all since the system should check for player count. Which is exactly what modern casual does actually, often a game with people but sometimes not, almost as if Valve can't figure out how many people are on its own servers. If you wanted to go to a community server, it would make more sense to use the browser to make sure people were _actually in the server_ something that you can't do just by unchecking "official servers only." Basically I assume a lot of people were fed up with being dumped into empty servers ever week like I did.

[@alex_zetsu]

@@rightbehindyou9398 I mean yeah I kind of assumed no one checked that box. Every 1/8th time quickplay dumped me into a server below 18 players so I quit immediately when it did something dumb like that. Eventually I learned to use the server browser and used it to join both community and official servers. So I assumed that the only people who used quickplay are people who don't mind hanging around an empty server waiting for it to fill and these people probably just left the settings on their default settings, although I could be wrong. I'm scratching my head at the collapse of most of my favorite community servers after Meet Your Match when quickplays default settings don't even put people there.

[@critfish7545]

I think when people look back on quickplay, they're really more attached to the little aspects of quickplay over the system as a whole, and a lot of those little aspects are entirely applicable to casual, provided that Valve actually took the effort to implement them. Team switching, vote scrambles and ability to spectate are just server settings and could absolutely be applied to casual servers. Allowing ad-hoc connections would enable players to find more specific servers if they wish, just as they did in the quickplay era. Removing the pre-game warmup and post-game scoreboard and having servers run the same map until the server time limit runs out would remove a lot of the unnecessary waiting in casual. Returning to the old map voting system where the vote happens mid-game would be far less intrusive, especially since instead of voting for the same map and having the server go through a loadscreen for no reason, you could just vote to extend the server time limit instead so the game just continues as normal. All of this could still be run under the casual queuing system without losing any of the benefits of that system, while retaining mostly everything that people liked about quickplay back in the day.

[@tomfreeman3816]

There are no benefits to the casual system.

[@critfish7545]

@@tomfreeman3816 As stated in the video, it's more user-friendly, especially for newer players, it's more convenient, and even minor things like the badge system are nice to have. The issues with the casual system are entirely avoidable, and I've already explained why.

[@iammonke5970]

No. I disagree. It’s not just a few little things that are missing from Casual that could make it acceptable if they were implemented today, it’s the entire system that’s flawed, and what it took away from the game when compared to Quickplay. The pace of the gameplay was much quicker and unrestricted in Quickplay. No slow queueing, no scrolling up and down the giant list of map names, no waiting for more players to join, no half-empty servers, just a way faster and more enjoyable experience, and that’s not even mentioning all the features they removed which you laid out. All in all, Quickplay in its entirety was just way more efficient and easy to use, and there’s absolutely no good reason Casual should still be around.

[@critfish7545]

@ Literally all of this was addressed though, ad-hoc connections would let you skip queuing and map selection. Also do remember that I started playing TF2 in 2013, I remember how quickplay worked, both before and after it exclusively put you in Valve servers. I got half-empty servers at about the same frequency as I do now. I'd argue that cutting all of the unnecessary wait times from Casual, like the end-of-round votes, forced map changes after two rounds and the pre-round warmup would itself alleviate the empty server issue since people would have less of a reason to quit and requeue.

[@FrancisL4D]

Any "fix" to casual is just adding a feature from quickplay, At that point just bring back quickplay.