TFS: Does Tungsten Stick Out Really Matter?

Have you ever been involved in the great debate about tungsten stick out amounts? We have too. That's why Justin decided to eliminate the human variable and test different amounts of stick out on a Furick Fupa 12 cup and a CNC machine. The results are rather surprising....
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[@garycarroll1965]

I've been welding for 40 years and still, as technology charges, learn something every day thanks to people like you.

[@alienman7866]

Shoulda paid more attention in english class.

[@Sassenhaim]

👍🏻

[@mef9327]

@@alienman7866 *English* should be capitalized as it’s a proper noun. Your so-called “sentence” is also missing a subject (i.e. who “shoulda” paid more attention?). I guess it’s you who should’ve paid more attention in *English* class, doofus.

[@RR31982]

My goal in my welding career is to try to learn something everyday. That will make the difference between a good day and a great day

[@joeshaft]

You make some of the best welding videos Justin. you guys, bob moffat and jodie are my go to for any welding info. you're clarity and straightforward explaination for everything is fantastic, dont lose that quality about your videos!

[@GosselinFarmsEdGosselin]

The best of the best!!! All three not only know their stuff, but they all are excellent instructors!!!

[@Enonymouse_]

same

[@davidwindsand8232]

I agree, the best videos I have watched.!!

[@johanvanderspuy7256]

Say no more....

[@joshuasherman3892]

Nice video as always!! Thanks for showing the gauge block, I'm gonna make one for myself cause it's so handy!

[@19672701]

Gonna have to get me a Fupa,always wanted to try them.

[@dragerx001]

so basically more stick out means tungsten is heating up faster. because argon can not cool the rod. if you made a longer cutlet to cool tungsten faster would that allow you have more stick out?.

[@mystamo]

Gummies daaa meeta. I mean welding cups....please...

[@MegaJuanrey]

Tío haz vídeos o subtitulados o en castellano eres un crack

[@henriksallingjensen8104]

Am i the only one that thinks the Fronius to the left looks like a car from CARS 😉

[@KowboyUSA]

Wife says the amount of _stick out_ really does _matter_ a lot.

[@peteraugust5295]

was I missing something or was there no gas flow mentioned in the whole video? How much gas do you use with 25mm of stick out?!

[@reignitionautomotive8281]

He covers this in another video. Cup number x 2 = minimum cfh to run.

[@marsattacks3455]

Yes and also the blanket behind it will help keep coverage over the weld and flow from cup. Argon is heavier than air. And will fill the area as long as it's covered.

[@sparksflyingpyro]

Nice videos, used to tig before I lost my index and middle finger on my rod feeder hand and have recently been trying to get back into tig welding again, have to say trying to change which hands are holding the torch and wire have been discouraging to say the least but your videos have inspired me

[@nikoschopshop]

Hey big dawg you ever figure it out?

[@JesseWright68]

So thankful that this video doesn't have a bunch of loud crappy metal music as a backing track.

[@chrisstratton3430]

Absolutely stellar work. I would love to meet the 46 walking failures that down voted this video. I can find no legit fault throughout it. I suspect they are all X girl friends.

[@ypaulbrown]

up to 102 losers thumbing down now.....Losers....Mr Kramer Rocks......

[@SasquaPlatypus]

Thanks for setting that up in the CNC and running this. Good to see some straight up scientific comparison. Think I'll go make one of those gauge blocks that's pretty cool!

[@dankuchar6821]

Great job removing the human from the test!

[@balisticsquirel]

Now run 3 more weld lines at the longer stickout (say 12). One with the torch and cup tilted and pointing 'ahead' of the bead (simulating how most folks weld, feeding rod from the front). One with the cup angled backward (which should blow shielding gas back over the bead and keep it shielded for longer). And one straight up / down as you did here.

[@CJ-ty8sv]

balisticsquirel was thinking the exact same thing. In theory, due to geometry, an angle should technically all for some degree of extra stickout. I dont think it will be much but should. And then there is still the flow variable and turbulence factor related to it.

[@andrewwitcher7432]

Maybe another video with a bunch of different angles.

[@WireWeHere]

Didn't have far to go into the comments to find thoughts of the angled torch effect, 1st one. Hope to see a follow up too. Weld done

[@Adam-b8i]

Interesting tests. It would be cool to see a similar test with one cup at a typical stick out, but several flow rates. I’d like to know at what point you’re wasting gas with the bigger nicer gas lens setups, and if it’s possible to make them aspirate ambient shop air into the weld like you can with a smaller standard cup.

[@brapbrapmafucka]

Thats what im thinking as well

[@glennr-qy9ve]

😊great video cool that you explain everything

[@skotlawrencedesironcustomm8107]

just found your channel. Finally tig tips I can use. Cheers dude.

[@susanfinch2388]

Thanks for this info Justin. You always produce excellent videos and I've been doing this for over 25 years now and I still end up watching your videos, Bob Moffat's and Jody's vid's after I get in from a shift. Always learning mate. Keep up the good work my friend. Top Man 😎

[@jonathanmurray6368]

12 looks best I think no heat problem thank always learning I started awhile ago couple years about 30 years I started stick and never stopped 1933 Chevy frame to a 1955 Chevy front. End assemble thanks never stop learning thank you

[@geoffwatson9607]

Susan Finch on of the best people to watch if you don’t know what you’re doing

[@northerniltree]

When I stick my neck out too far, I usually get into too much heat too.

[@Ryan_1997]

I just have youtube. great vid man. I start my weldin classes in fall. and will be purchasing a tig welder really soon. I'll be sure to remember these tips. thank you👍

[@weldingjunkie]

Ryan gst check out the HTP Invertig 221 great welder for tig

[@alpayne423]

Thank you for all your help I have learned a lot about tig welding.. I bought the prime weld 225 which I saw on one of your videos I like a lot and I am starting to get better at it

[@ReshardsAutomotiveWorkshop]

That's a lot of work for an experiment. Thank you.

[@JD-ub5ic]

Wow, respect for admitting where you were a little off and setting up a test in such a way that you couldn’t bias it

[@sveilleux9]

I was always wondering what the stick out rule was. I am just learning how to TIG weld and this was very informative. I learned how stick out matters and also why you would use a different size cup. Thanks!

[@3rdGenGuy]

of course it fucking matters. In Aerospace, we have to keep the tungsten stick out exactly 0.5in every time.

[@ruzbehmusic]

Geat video, very usefulI, filled with good information. I don't always get to weld, so whenever I get notified of a TSF video posted I listen and absorb any info you put out there. When I finally gey a chance to weld, I think of what was said in those videos, the new information, and reminders gives me a better plan of action, in m y practices, and helps me consistently become a better welder... Keep them vids coming. Surely is a big help. Thanks!

[@WilliamSmith-he4nm]

Your torch has a lot of stick out because it's glad to see you !

[@phineas853]

I'm surprised that the high frequency didn't mess with your CNC machine.

[@SWhite-hp5xq]

Good stuff mate. Any chance you could do the same with the relevant cup sizes and with the cup slightly angled? Love to see the results of this too for comparison. Cheers also for the time and effort you put into your channel. Ive learned a great deal from you and have applied quite few techniques. Keep up the great work 👍🏽

[@Thebutteredsausage]

Great job! It's a science with lots of variables..thanks for making this video!👍

[@wintonhudelson2252]

Your testing methodology is quite sound, I'm very impressed. You do a good job of stating facts in a way others will understand and retain. Thank you.

[@jonnya6107]

Great vid and info Justin, its something I've always kinda wondered about, but never really got the chance to test out, especially to the degree of accuracy which you have here, which is more than adequate imho. I deffo am with you on going between the 12 and the 8, 8 looks the best to me in this example. It would interesting to see what that same setup would come out like using number 10 stickout. Just FYI, and maybe other folk's too, as a "speed setup" thing, the way I've always set my tungsten is to leave the tungsten loose in the torch while I rest the bottom edge of the cup on a flat surface, the tungsten also of course is down on that same flat surface, it being loose. I then rock the torch either forward or back as needed, eyballing the angles as I do so until the cup and the tungsten create an equilateral triangle like something like this, but "squarer" /\ in relation to the flat surface, (or an "X" type shape - basically you're looking for 90 and 45 degree angles if that makes sense). It's then just a case of nipping down the collet and you're done - with parctice I find it's pretty accurate and can be done in just a few seconds (about 5 or less at a guess, never timed it though)

[@AgentWest]

Came here for the post-intro "WTF screen", stayed for a rather informative and interesting video :) Couple of tips about the CNC: You can download so-called 'screens' for Mach3. They are in essence different layouts of the controls. My personal favorite is 'Aqua' since it's not as cluttered as the standard screen and it's design is more pleasant to look at. Number two: for some reason after finishing a pass your CNC wend down to Z0. You should add something like this to the end of the code to prevent this: M05 (turn off spindle or whatever machine thinks is spindle) G04 P500 (pause the program for half of a second) M09 (turn off all coolant outputs, possibly gas to the torch) G0 Z1 (quick retraction to 1" or 1mm above surface) M30 (rewind to start of program) It's good to have a simple text file that you can copy/paste from to get all your basic commands for the beginning and end of the code. Do watch out for G43 (cutter length compensation) since it will send the machine to Z plus whatever-the-tool-table-tells-it-that-the-tool-is-long and it will start working in the air instead of in/on the part. It looks like we are using same software and controller, so if you have any questions then feel free to ask! One more note: another interesting thing is that on that particular controller there are two on/off outputs for spindle, one for CW and one for CCW. They are turned on by M03 and M04 and are both turned off by M05 in the G-code. That means that you can have two attachments on the machine and have it do two things one after another. For example, you can set up the machine to lay a bead with a welder, wait couple minutes for the bead to cool, and pass over it to spray some rust preventative from a can that's activated by a servo.

[@craigfiles7067]

great feed i'm in Australia & I can't find anyone willing to help with videos so i'd like to say thank you for going out of your way to produce really helpful videos I don't think many people realise how much time & money go into doing what you do

[@andrewjordan8445]

im just about to purchase a STRATA AC/DC tig and Im looking forward to putting your instruction to the test. I have ARC, MIG and GAS welded before but never TIG. Wish me luck :)

[@winstonwilliams9801]

This dude grew up in church...no VISIBLE tattoos

[@stevemitchem6041]

Great test. Bottom line, my rule of thumb is what ever works best for you to obtain desired results. Being able to see the puddle and add filler accurately is key.

[@braunreinhold6020]

Justin I've decided to come out of retirement (for many reasons we won't delve into here) and but a TIG 225x AC DC Tig MMA welder based on your review of the machine I watched here on U=Tube. I'm an old fart and a retired contract Millwright by trade among others. I've been retired for the last five years after spending 12 years in Iraq and Afghanistan. Welding (like shooting) is a perishable skill, so I already know I need to buy a butt load of scrap from the junk shop and get my hand back up to snuff. I'm raising my second family on SS (long story) so I have a limited budget. I was researching these IGBT welders and the one above appears to be the best bang for the buck. It's a stretch on my budget but with some belt tightening doable. This "Plandemic" along with the associated lock down is driving me up a wall, Hell I'm not even allowed to enter a government building here in the PI because I'm 75 years old. Plus my curfew is from 15:00 to 06:00 the next day GO FIGURE!!!! Welcome to kindergarten. I will get back into building what ever people need and can afford, plus get back into my first love machinery and tool design, if by some miracle the economy bounces back (don't hold your breath). Thank you for your videos and helping this old fart gain a modicum of knowledge on these new fangled machines. BTW the best machine I ever owned for the field was an old Lincoln torpedo welder, in my shops (back in the day) I stuck with Hobart, Lincoln, and Millers. but they are way beyond my budget today. Thanks again for your time Bud.

[@wadepatton2433]

Aha! the cup size is the number on the cup divided by 16, in inches. Multiply that by 25.4 for mm of course. It's all coming together now.

[@phillberthsp]

Wow! I was lost in a sea of videos trying to find why I sucked and you have me dialled in and on my way. The right way!. Thanks

[@markthomas36]

Been welding for years but new to TIG, I have to say Justin, most impressed with your videos. In fact I think they are so good I’ve subscribed for the first time on anything. Keep it up. Cheers from Australia

[@hughsundelowitz9084]

All your video's are extremely helpfully, every time I watch your video's I learn something new. Regards Hugh South Africa

[@JCMakerspace]

Very interesting results with your test on stick out. What would be cool to see is cut and etching to see how the weld profiles are on the different samples. Stress testing results would be interesting to see too. And there is always ways to manipulate the gas where you need it to stay too.

[@meldeer6253]

I am a amature never tiged i have a very locost semidry 5200d its a plasma tix & stick iv used stick worked realy well for the weld i grow up on old school, plasma cuts very well up to 3/8" i have cut grade 5/8" bolts rusted to hell! but now in in to welding my used aluminum flatbed i have a soppl gun that for my first try at aluminum did and is getting better at , but TIG iv tryed all heat ranges used a regular grinding wheel ? and had any thing from black soot to liquid aluminum and heated it up so much i could not touch it any help would be great im all so using a 1/8" 4043 aluminum rod on 1/8" plat thank you

[@astcomjakecw]

That would have been *63mm* (2.5 inch) #40 cup. Come on America. youre supposed to be good at things and know both systems....

[@freshstart3555]

Just found your channel. Great videos man. Very thorough, direct and to the point. Thanks for taking the time to make them.

[@android01978]

For your stick out gage, couldn’t you just have a cone shaped hole with a 26.6 degree slope and a flat bottom to account for the cup wall thickness… should be able to do any size cup. Same would work with just a triangle cut in the side of some flat bar and would be less likely obstructed by the handle with different neck arrangements.

[@alext8828]

JSYK, that segment at circa 4 min in had great audio. Even the music. If you had switched to a different piece of equipment, make a note. It works well.

[@markrich3271]

Tungsten stick out is extremely important when welding aluminum. For a very long time I couldn't understand why when I welded aluminum it came out so so bad. Stick out.

[@davidwindsand8232]

Please, videos with equipment we already have,not the newest, latest expensive stuff we don't have money to pay for. I know you have to pitch the stuff they want to sell,but c'mon...how to use older equipment to best advantage...

[@jcj8840]

Have you done one of your sweet break downs of why tungsten diameter matters and what the difference and benefits are?I can’t seem to find one. I’m re learning tig specifically thin aluminum and I’m told 3/32 will do everything until you get to the really thick metals.

[@jorgenskyt]

Thank you for the video. Please STOP using imperial units! It is absolutely ridiculous. It would be SO much easier if everybody just stepped down and used SI-metrics for good.

[@CWB-uk9vw]

Had this like 17 y/o kid live close to the shop I had years ago.... he saved all summer or however long to get a nice forward facing T4 turbo manifold made for his Honda but this kid was always trying to learn welding and fab work as related to cars anyway he was a good kid so I would let him kinda hang out around the shop on the weekends or whatever anyway I would always let him watch me when I was tig welding and try to explain what I was doing and why I was doing it ect (I'd let him practice on scrap and stuff sometimes after hours or if we was slow ect) but anyway I was welding up this very tight 4-1/T4 collector so I had my stick pretty far out so I could get in the tight spots and he thought he had me lol he thought he was gonna tell me what I was doing wrong ect he had just read in one of the welding books I had in my office from years ago(I was probably his age when I got them lol) It was just funny and thought it kinda went with this video lol

[@Robonthemoor]

I've got a Mac tig welder coming on Tuesday next week we bought it from Ebay a welder bought it for a job then the job fell through,, so' £1000 machine with foot pedel I got for £500 I can gas, stick & mig weld so I hope I can with your help Tig too.

[@dull_boy_274]

Ummm....my stickout has been less than a third of what it could/should be. No wonder I have trouble seeing the arc unless it's at eye level. Thank you for the vid

[@sinchrotron]

Holly Molly! If one is not able to maintain 90 degrees triangle by eyes... May be it is better to switch to a copyrighting job, or rock-star, idk :)

[@peterbuilttough3406]

Yeah...you have way to many welders for 1 human. Let me help you clear some space over there bud. I'll even teach you a couple tricks about tig welding.

[@GeorgeZaharia]

I started welding when I was 7 im 25 now and got 50 years experience can I get a internship? :..... Companies ideal candidate this days.

[@davidstansbury3204]

Your 8 is upside down lol give me a free cup. Just kidding. Thank you for your time and knowledge.

[@edwardhajdas1765]

Can I weld aluminum on a Miller Thunderbolt A/C D/C transformer machine on the A/C side using green tungsten

[@davidfrank2824]

I absolutely love that gauge that you made. I will try to make myself one tomorrow and see if I can get it on the first try like you did. Thanks for the great information.

[@nickb.6884]

You have an awesome attitude and are still positive. Keep up the good work

[@PaulTompson]

Many thanks for such excellent advice and demonstrating of skills, is outstanding

[@whiteline99]

Every video has a guy that starts off by saying , I've been welding for 40 years .......

[@antasasas]

Good stuff. I'm trying to get in Tig as well. Thanks for your videos. Like 👍

[@shreddder999]

I think the block would be more accurate if you anodized it blue. I thought you used AHP welders.

[@michaelcostello6991]

Were you using gas lens or normal cups. Would the gas lens have better gas coverage and hence allow more stick out ?? Just asking as im a complete novice. Michael

[@nathan4233]

Fora stick out depth gauge... why not instead of all those holes... just etch q line or a slight notch the size of the tungsten on the side of a small block, and then put a strong magnet on it, label where the measurements are and then adjust the magnet to what you're using, now you can see everything and trust it without a bunch of holes

[@robostyle9773]

I only use excessive stick out when welding down into a hole Like a broken bolt or stud below flush. When you drilled all those holes in that block I was hoping you were going down that road.

[@TotoGuy-Original]

im practicing welding 1.5mm stainless steel pipe but im having some problems. i don't have a purge setup I know i should but i don't have it. I seem to use too much filler and the welds are not good. i do realise i should be purging the pipe but what is the best way to weld this pipe without purging and getting the best results possible without purging? i want to move into making exhausts so even if i could purge it will get tricky to do so when im welding long sections together. thanks in advance

[@meldeer6253]

O and my stick out was probably not enouf did not know about the stick out thanks i realy get a lot out of your tips iv been welding all my life started stick then brazing the mig

[@TheOneAndOnlySame]

My bro, why/how are your tungsten looking so well finished? the cone has a smooth transition to the core and grinding marks are absent . Well visible at 6:23 Is this out of the box? is this your doing? is this better than standard less refined finish?

[@jacobcarolan1172]

Sometimes you just have to pull that tungsten way out and crank the argon up. Welding in super acute angles calls for less than ideal torch setup.

[@Curious425]

Hiw much of a difference would it have made if you changed the cup size to match the stickout? Rather than use the same huge cup for each one...

[@danl.4743]

I get that the stickout is equal to the size of the cup. But I didn't get the distance that you have between the tip of the tungsten to the metal plate. Is it the same in all of them? And what distance is it please? Thanks. BTW, the numbering looked strange, but I quickly realize that the "number" is the "x" in the x/16" always. Easy to remember that way. :) So 1/4" = 4/16" = #4. 5/8" = 10/16" = #10. Etc.

[@Adam-b8i]

Dan L. You’re right. It is the size in 16ths. Just like AN/JIC fittings. As far as contact tip to work distance, the rule of thumb is not more than one tungsten diameter. That is to say, if you’re running a 1/16 tungsten, try to keep it within 1/16 of the puddle. Best practice dictates holding as tight of an arc as you have skill to in almost all situations.

[@christopherely4364]

Had to scroll down to find this comment, or I was going to make it myself. Cup size is number of sixteenths. Makes way more sense when put that way.

[@guspritchett7024]

Do a review of the TIG finger from welding tips and tricks

[@nickjones7737]

"It keeps your finger cool for longer than not having it" is about the only review anyone can give.

[@Propman203]

Wow I never got my free cups. I’m still waiting must be lost in the mail

[@timothystrunk7323]

Im in school using a #8 ceramic cup in ur pernal prefrence how much stick out and heat should i run? Im doing butt joints and lap joints on steel. Its less then a quarter inch thick or so

[@johnnyfrederick7894]

Very helpful for a beginner! Since I’m a beginner. Thank you

[@davidmccormick4319]

I don’t weld, don’t know why I’m watching this, I just wanted to be at the top of the comments section.

[@josh234man]

Finally a good video that answers the question.

[@davidwindsand8232]

How about a video using the older basic weld machines most people have access to...

[@junkcarreviews5390]

Thanks Justin, this video helped

[@peterblackburn7269]

thanks guag tool great idea!! ill make one ☝🏻 thankvidio great help🙏🏻

[@massimopecile9666]

1:08 yea imperial sistem at his finnest, why use a single number to indicate something when you can mess up everything using inches

[@ifell3]

Your number 6 is a 9 also ^^

[@Enigma-Sapiens]

What if your sticker is pecking out, do the same rules apply?

[@williamreymond2669]

What does it actually look like if you cut cross sections through those different welds?

[@thatinsanehenry_3447]

Tig is so easy. With the foot pedal you have so much control that you don't need to think

[@bzeug]

Interesting comparison. Thank you.

[@ricksturdevant2901]

Yeah, I started welding in 1978 and I totally agree with Gary

[@TrojanHorse1959]

Great video Justin! I have a question for you, "Does sticker peck out matter either?"

[@westoncrockett5968]

Robert G I thought this said does pecker stick out matter😂😂

[@Drifftpanda]

Hey Justing i have a quick question , but 1st dude you make hell good videos with great educational informations , Thumbs Up!!! now my question is I started tig weld now few months back - progress its very good but i find out that Fusing and also laying wire its working pretty good for me - my question its Fusing or laying wire are bad techniques ? i read about it all over the internet there is pro and cons its like playing with your mind lol - i just want to hear a honest answer., ty

[@beatbyme]

As long as you wife doesn’t say you don’t have enough stick out 👍😎

[@Sam..Omg..]

love your videos and want to add on this one ,, repeat the test but with the proper cup per stickout

[@rarturocasprowitz]

Is there a difference between a valve torch a d a high frequency torch

[@aftech7268]

I use wide stickout for tight spots where the tungston can’t reach the weld

[@SquirrelsForAll]

Great video, thank you for posting. This was extremely helpful.

[@chrisrenaud4141]

Man if you have time to do the same test again just do it with a single cup, when you lower the stickout size drop your CFH the same percentage as the amount of stickout you use to show the same gas flow say if your running a 3/4" stickout on a number 12 at 25CFH try doing a half inch stickout @ 18CFH or roughly 1/4 less CFH see if the results are identical would be awesome to know also