Thailand Declares War on Expats? Credit Card Spending Now Taxable!

[@ufuksenol2005]

Don't simply retire from something; have something to retire to. Start saving, keep saving, and stick to investments. Building wealth involves establishing routines, like consistently setting aside funds at regular intervals for smart investments

[@PineHosting]

It’s really heartbreaking to see how inflation and recession impact low-income families. The cost of living keeps rising, and many struggle just to meet basic needs, let alone save or invest. It’s a reminder of the importance of finding ways to create financial opportunities. You've helped me a lot sir Robert! Imagine i invested $50,000 and received $190,500 after 14 days

[@BigNate82]

Some persons think inves'tin is all about buying stocks; I think going into the stock market without a good experience is a big risk, that's why I'm lucky to have seen someone like mr Robert L Cox.

[@katiekilbo]

Finding yourself a good broker is as same as finding a good wife, which you go less stress, you get just enough with so much little effort at things

[@MianHussnain-tu1wi]

Cox demonstrates an excellent understanding of market trends, making well informed decisions that leads to consistent profit

[@mbnesbitt]

Seeing the future of xrp last year I had to sell my my HELOC I regretted somehow until I met Mr Robert started with $5000 xrp well say less 😊

[@realpropertymangement7640]

Rule 1 - Own nothing in Thailand you are not willing to walk away from on short notice and at a complete loss. Rule 2 - Limit your time in Thailand to less 180 days per calendar year.

[@SuperheroArmorychannel]

Rule 3 - move to another country and repeat so you never reside in any tax jurisdiction for 180 days.

[@kohchangtai7820]

My advice, do nothing, until you are asked via an official letter. Thanks for your thoughts.

[@HairyPixels]

100% been saying this for a while.

[@erbxvdfb]

You may owe with big penalties doing that. Taxes are retroactive.

[@beverlyweber4122]

@erbxvdfb Or owe NOTHING and you spent a whole lotta time getting stuff together. Nothing has been officially posted from the Thai government other than a basic framework. Sit tight, grab a Leo, and avoid jumping off the deep end. Time enough for panic soon enough!

[@Johan654-s1f]

@erbxvdfb Exactly, therefor it's very irresponsible to tell other to do nothing. It is very individual of how much is on stake here.

[@brucebraswell6728]

Good advice. All these "media stories" might be a politically soft tactic to scare off the cheap Charlies. My wife is an accountant. She recently completed our 2024 Thai tax returns, and I only pay tax on income derived from trading Thai equities.

[@tomleekey7438]

182 days in Thailand, 183 elsewhere. Problem solved, headaches cancelled. A couple of flights in and out far cheaper than those hefty taxes on money you have already been taxed on in your home country in most cases.

[@omnipresent1215]

That's an interesting thought. Personally, I'd rather set up to stay over the longer term in one place though. But again, it's an interesting thought. Would just be a short trip into a neighbouring country that is similar but without the added expense?

[@daytriker]

As someone who has visited Thailand 4 or 5 times & considering a permanent move there, the prospect of being taxed & having the rules change on a regular basis is enough for me to wait & see what happens first. I have noticed quite the change in attitudes over the past 15 years & Thailand might be targeting those tourists with lots of cash that are causing problems. Hence big credit card purchases might be their way of tracking where the money is coming from. I agree though, who needs to have to deal with tax laws & accounting if you are simply retired? Especially when there are other options.

[@fatmanoverland8304]

Funny how the people raising the most fear about this are the ones wanting to sell you a service. Ben over at Integrity Legal has been doing a good job explaining the actual law about how this is all shaking out.

[@Johan654-s1f]

Ben is a joke, he rants about competitors who give tax advice for free since they according to him operate illegally. No they don't, not unless they claim to be given expert advice. He however is an American attorney, not a Thai attorney, still he argue like he is an expert. No, being a Thai citizen doesn't qualify him to be an expert, not that he owns a legal company either. A qualified expert understand that this video for example is fully legal. You are allowed to discuss this and give your opinion and your understanding of things. As long as you don't pretend to be an expert.

[@WAWZDAT]

@@Johan654-s1f I quit watch most of Ben's stuff. He rants a lot about how "things don't work that way." But he rarely gives solutions.

[@Johan654-s1f]

​@ He doesn't eve understand that the changes 2024 didn't require a change of the law. It's just a new interpretation of the law. For us however the effect is the same, new rules apply. He rants about that the government cannot do this but who of us wants to fight the Thai government in a Thai court just because Ben as an American attorney say they cannot do this?

[@aithaiguy]

Dang, the whole point of moving there was not to deal with all the BS.

[@RamzeTravels]

Agreed 😞

[@winxtra2892]

exactly..

[@StephenJohn-xs9zv]

Been scraping by in KK raising a Thai family. Choking on pollution! I am with you , my thoughts exactly:)

[@tyvid]

There's a US attorney who works in Bangkok and is also a Thai National. He's blasted those farangs who are running around giving Thai tax advice which he says are in contravention of prohibited occupations. He also has stressed that these announced changes are not a foregone conclusion. He said that the advice being bandied around by 'tax advisors' is dangerous for many as it is potentially causing many expats to obtain tax IDs when they don't need to and lodging tax that they didn't have to. Spending money on tax accountants and advisors as well, who are rubbing their hands together with all the money that this will generate. It's causing panic and stress to the expat community. And already there are those who have therefore left Thailand too. I'm from Australia and for example, our outdated Dual Taxation Agreement with Thailand appears to not exempt private pensions, which in Australia are tax-exempt. Also capital gains, which in Australia are tax-exempt (your primary residence) or if an investment it can have a 50% discount on capital gains if held over 12 months. So my rental property when I sell and if remitted any of the capital gains into Thailand, I am apparently also not exempt from tax there. Same applies to franking credits from share dividends - not apparently recognized in Thailand, so remitting tax credits from franking credits could be targeted too. Plus tax offsets that reduce tax liability in my country - are they recognised in Thailand if I remit funds? I have so many deductions that I legitimately claim for that reduce my tax so much I am often in credit, which Thailand may therefore see as me not having paid tax? So many questions. And also Australian tax year ends 30 June. And I don't prepày tax. So income goes into my bank untaxed and only assessed once I lodge my return (around November/December usually). So what happens there? Do I have to therefore prepay tax in Australia from now on? And do I need to pay my accountant in Australia to do a second customised half year tax report (for Dec 31) to tally up everything for me? It also means I would need to pay for half yearly income reports. Plus then need to pay for a Thai tax accountant and advisor to sort the mess. It takes me a couple of months to sort and do my yearly tax return in Australia. A lot of time. I cannot imagine then having to do that for a half yearly Oz return as well and then another load of time in Thailand. Paperwork, stress, a lot of cost, plus the stated 'incoming remittance tax' on top. Yeah add remittance sources from credit card spending too and cash brought in through the airport. It is 100% a deal breaker for me and would be for many others. I have spent 2024 trying to minimize my spending in case this goes ahead. I postponed buying a car. And any plan of buying a condo in the future is also on hold. If this tax is implemented and enforced then I am leaving Thailand for good. None of this 6 under months out and more than 6 months come back to Thailand, to stay under the tax-residency threshold. Most of us came here to settle, retire, have a life, build relationships, friends, community, peace. Not expecting this new version of a living hell. Other countries are tax exempt and welcome retirees. And yes, there will be certain retirees that are just lucky their Dual Taxation Agreement from their country with Thailand means their income sources are tax-exempt in Thailand (military and certain civil servant pensions, US social security, Hong Kong pensions etc). The rest of us are unfairly taxed. And most Dual Taxation Agreements are also decades old, so very outdated and create this unfair system due to various implementations that occurred since. The one-year rule sorted out the unfairness at least by allowing others to remit their funds after being kept abroad for one year. I am waiting and seeing, like most expats are doing. But won't be spending much at all until there is clarity.

[@Johan654-s1f]

"There's a US attorney who works in Bangkok and is also a Thai National. ", which means he is not qualified but still pretending to be an expert and thus do what he accuses other youtubers for.

[@omnipresent1215]

Thank you for that excellent comment. 👍🏻💯🇦🇺

[@Mickcitzen666]

G-day mate I’m in Sydney and have also been listening to that bloke from Integrity Legal Ben, & like he said they closed down the whole country during Covid and l believe the Thai government will want to try and tax all the expats to the high hilt, l was going to move there to Thailand but not with there WEF agenda, Cambodia sounds like the best place for me, Thailand definitely wants expats money and they are definitely coming for you 😮

[@large4u]

Once past 70, most retirees won't feel like flitting from country to country keep under the 180 day rule. The whole idea of being retired is to stay put without hassle.

[@omnipresent1215]

Certainly the case for me. This doesn't do anything to help me make this big decision. 👍🏻💯

[@eFullStack]

You can't tax people who stay in Thailand on a tourist visa. I believe the Thai government has become complacent due to the global attention Thailand receives, but they must understand that once people decide to leave the country, it will be very difficult to convince them to change their minds.

[@HairyPixels]

Don't be a chump and get TIN (good luck) because some "expert" on KZbin says you need to. Authorities will notify you directly if you're expected to do anything.

[@Lat265]

What do tins have to do with it? Cans?

[@MickeSuspicious]

@@Lat265 Tax Idenfication Number

[@Johan654-s1f]

You are completely spot on here. I don't want all this stress and hassle even if I can avoid all taxes. Most likely I would have to pay money to tax experts though, even though they will not be able to tell me exactly what is taxable or not. The thing to prove when I earned my income, keep that money on separate accounts, never mix them with other money and provide documentation for all this is too much. In practice this is very hard. Also the total lack of clear an detailed information from the official sources is not acceptable. Now we have to guess how it works, no one really knows when it comes to important details. Like what is savings, what is income. What if I have bought, sold stocks several times during the last 20 years. Do I need documentation for all transactions since beginning of time to prove exactly how much is income and how much is savings? No one can answer this, we can only guess. I do have a LTR visa but it's typical that the information on the LTR web page about tax exempt for foreign income is incorrect. It doesn't comply with what Section 5 stipulate. This is just an example of that we don't have official information we can trust. They are also just guessing.

[@MrH2O1984]

Your thumbnails just get better and better

[@rdefacendis]

Your initial instincts are correct... ignore the noise and wait for the law. US has a tax treaty with Thailand.... you won't pay any more taxes... your only fees (should the law actually come to fruition) is the cost of the accountant to prepare the return... That is the worst case scenario. Given how much money you save by living there rather than the US, the small cost and inconvenience of a prepared return is well worth the aggravation.

[@alexfrog9191]

I’ve seen lots of recent debate on this. Some are claiming that farang and/or Thai tax consultants are needlessly scaremongering the expat community, as they essentially want the fees for getting you a Tax ID and preparing a tax return. There are also suggestions that it’s better to do nothing, particularly if you aren’t approached by Thai Revenue - proactively getting a tax ID at an early stage, if it’s unnecessary, can apparently disadvantage you later on in some scenarios. There are also claims that Thai Revenue would be in no way able to deal with hundreds of thousands of additional tax returns, which would presumably happen if they genuinely demand a tax return from every single person resident in Thailand for >180 days per year. On the other hand, deciding to do nothing, essentially staying under the radar, pretty much because of the historic and ongoing incompetence of Thai authorities regarding enforcement of most of their laws and regulations would also make me feel a bit hesitant. Perhaps keeping records on the source of foreign funds brought into Thailand from overseas is probably sensible in any event, just in case you’re picked for some sort of audit by Thai Revenue in due course.

[@jbennison5672]

@@alexfrog9191 but if it's not law there is no need to keep records. They need to pass a law first, only then can individuals be expected to adhere to it.

[@omnipresent1215]

If this is the case it would be very wise for the Thai Government to make an official statement. These unethical 'tax consultants' could cost Thailand billions of dollars otherwise. You are miles ahead of me though in this matter. Hope my comment makes sense.

[@vaultdweller0013]

Example of "foreign credit card usage in Thailand, if converted to Thai baht" would be buying a Rolex with the card then selling it. Mostly targeted towards China, which has strict controls on currency leaving the country.

[@BasedInBrazil]

If they accept American Express, use the pay by USD option. Amex pays all foreign conversation fees which are different from foreign transaction fees some 🇺🇸 credit cards charge.

[@PaulRLight]

I quit my job in June 2022. So, I don't have any "income". The returns that I get on my very modest stock portfolio are reinvested. I can prove all of this with my U.S. tax returns. I probably spend about $2,500 USD per month in Thailand.

[@earlgreco8636]

everybody keeps saying it's iffy. I went to the Thai website and saw it in black and white. A schedule starts at 20% and goes up from there depending on your income, simple.

[@livingworkingoutsidebox]

Thanks for bringing this up.🤔 Some similar things happened in Portugal which literally destroyed it's expat migration. They loved all the money coming in, the increased property values and sales. Then their own bureaucracy started to hate the extra work and got greedy. It just started to snowball. But I've never heard a country treating credit card purchases as taxable income?😮 Would it be extra percentages added to all foreign credit card purchases? The good thing is bureaucracy is famous for throwing 💩 at a fan in front of them to see what sticks on the wall behind them.😉

[@stevemahoney6493]

Agreed. The past 2 years have been through the looking glass. I think we need to bail on the Kingdom.

[@TheH00kie]

Spot on

[@WAWZDAT]

I don't see how they can prove your CC usage unless you volunteer it and who would do that? If they finalize taxing money just because I bring it into the country, I see that like a cover charge at a bar. You want charge me just for the privilege of doing business with you? I don't think so. There is plenty of other places to take my money.

[@TheVoiceofReason4ya]

I saw the title and thought instantly, doesn't everyone have a wise card already?

[@John-G]

Why would that make any difference? JHC.

[@absabs3811]

Ah well that potentially answers a question for me, we didn't necessarily want to stay in one place however we were thinking of doing the 5 year visa and using Thailand as a base to go round Asia from there, I think now we will just do a few months in each country and not have a base or err towards Philippines as the base 🤷. Thanks again Ramze any more spanners you want to throw in the works 🤣🤣.

[@BasedInBrazil]

What about 🇰🇭 as a base? Seems centrally located and a 1 year tourist visa.

[@absabs3811]

@BasedInBrazil simply put....Diving 😁 Philippines has some amazing dive sites, we had a 6 week holiday in Thailand 2 years ago and while we didn't think it was amazing it was perfectly adequate for us, we will likely go spend a few weeks in the Philippines to get a feel for it there and decide. Luckily we took the rose tinted glasses off years ago so nowhere is precious to us in that sense.

[@royherron1958]

I will just watch and see what happens. But it these things do happen, then it's Purtugal, or Spain. It's nice to have options.

[@jenniferwithey6443]

Spain has some unfavorable laws for non-EU expats. Portugal seems more welcoming (from the small bit of research I’ve done) than Spain.

[@royherron1958]

@@jenniferwithey6443 Thank you for letting me know. The only thing I've read about Spain is the Pensionado Program. And I haven't done a full dive into living there. I've only been to Spain once, and that was a while ago.

[@Frank50505]

Never throw anchor anywhere and they can't get you.

[@rossp561]

I'll worry about it when they link up the Revenue Department with Immigration. I get my cash by ATM. They can't track that.

[@John-G]

"they"? Of course they can if they want to - it's a bank transfer just like any other. Would they want to? No.

[@beverlyweber4122]

Move to Albania (if you are American). No visa required for a full solid YEAR. And quite lax tax issues. And a quick boat ride to Italy! Or just sit tight and wait until clarification from OFFICIAL sources, someone who is a lawful legal representative once the details are determined.

[@gregweigel8115]

Definitely an eyebrow raiser but I find it hard to believe that they have the wherewithal to chase all that down. Can you say Bitcoin...

[@kennethboehnen271]

I was in the first batch of LTR visas. So, that's lucky.

[@RamzeTravels]

That’s the visa to be on honestly. The rest are just different names for parole.

[@Johan654-s1f]

@@RamzeTravels No unfortunately the promise about tax exempt for LTR is not correct. Read section 5 and you will see that this exempt only income derived from previous year. I.e. if you bring in income generated this year it will be taxable this year.

[@kennyb8834]

Taxing foreign credit card usage? The monies you would use to pay your foreign credit card bill could already be subject toThai taxation. Any foeign income earned that is either exempt from Thai tax laws OR subject to Thai tax laws is the same money you would use to pay for credit card purchases in Thailand. Meaning Thailand could be taxing the same money twice. Or said differently, the monies Thailand would say are subject to taxation could be the same monies you use to pay your credit card bill on Thai purchases, So they would tax that same money once as taxable foeign earnings/monies and again if that's the monies youuse to pay your cc bill.

[@hoso1079]

All gov. is poor now and they start to add tax for each source.😂😂

[@andrewrobinson2565]

"foreign credit card usage in Thailand, if converted to Thai baht," Did anybody ask for an example? I don't know what the phrase means. If I stay in a hotel for a month and pay with a foreign card, will I have to make a declaration? "180 days OR bringing money into Thailand" (my caps). Every tourist brings money into Thailand. Is that "OR" a mistake 😮?

[@kymhaniford]

Nah. I have made the decision NOT to retire in Thailand. Can't become a citizen, can't own land, you are always classed as a tourist, why the hell pay taxes for that?

[@RamzeTravels]

Very valid concerns.

[@jbennison5672]

Doesn't a 10,000THB bribe at the tax office solve all of this?

[@RamzeTravels]

🤷

[@Ulbre]

I think if anything is to come of this then we won't know until at least a few months after the deadline of March 31 tax filings. I feel it will be mostly business as per usual. But let's all hurry up and wait.

[@andrewrobinson2565]

No link in the description 😮.

[@RamzeTravels]

Fixed! Thank you for pointing that out. 🙏

[@Philippinesbound42]

Why should u have to file taxes in a country you don’t earn any income from? How in the hell is using a credit card considered “income”. Do the Thais even know what the definition of income is?

[@neilblondell4235]

If it is a remittance tax system then it would be considered a remittance......as would an ATM withdrawal

[@Philippinesbound42]

@ we aren’t Thai citizens sending money back to the family. We have no rights in Thailand. So we don’t pay anything more than normal sales tax when we consume

[@Dutchy695]

You guys the truth is tax is only for commerce. No contract no consent no case. Get educated on your jurisdiction as a living breathing man that doesn't need to identify with your strawman commercialised birth certificate.

[@_al_c2638]

Another country that needs more income to the budget. Maybe their economy has some issues.

[@liveourbest2067]

Tbh I am getting the vibe from several of your videos you miss the US and Colombia.You are looking for more reasons to leave...lol..You don't need any more reasons.Go with your heart...I just came to Asia for the first time 2.5 weeks ago to Danang...People are great,love the food its beautiful here,cheap af...Just not feeling it..I am already wanting to either go back to Medellin or Vegas.I speak Spanish.So communication is a big one for me here..

[@RamzeTravels]

I have been trying to be patient but crap like this (even if it probably never turns into anything is not helping). I suspect Thailand will end up being a great vacation destination for me in the future but not a place I invest or leave any money. Shame really.

[@davidk467]

Man I always relate to you and your kids in real time. So where is better to retire. That is the question. I don't want cold weather, Spanish language , or high cost of living. Hmm .

[@jbennison5672]

@@davidk467 why don't you want the Spanish language?

[@davidk467]

@jbennison5672 no disrespect to the Spanish language or culture. I'm old and I'm not great with learning languages. In Thailand you don't need to speak Thai to get by. I traveled and lived for a bit in Spain and South America, it's a huge disadvantage if you don't speak or understand it .

[@RamzeTravels]

You are limited with those qualifiers. Maybe split time in SE Asia.

[@jbennison5672]

@@davidk467 I see....you want somewhere where English is widely spoken.

[@davidk467]

@@RamzeTravels agreed. Thanks

[@papi8659]

If you don't like it, feel free to leave ....

[@Johan654-s1f]

Yes we can do that but we can also complain about it and inform other people about this so they can make informed decisions, and avoid these traps.

[@patm5483]

Just did that sold everything after 15 years don’t miss the bs and bad air pollution. Worlds a big place lots to visit.

[@LUCKHEF]

“ American passport is only strong for people with no successful business as “ America “ is the only country that globally taxes citizens and has HUGE tax on business owners ! I do understand why white people would want to keep the passport they have cultural connection to the “ country “ as I don’t ! MANY passports better long as you don’t want to go back to America as I don’t but great content ! I wish I could have passport from Chile or Ireland places that mind they business 😂 Im working with a company now to renounce my citizenship which America makes VERY hard to do ! GREAT CONTENT as usual I enjoy your perspective

[@bigstick8699]

Your reason that other countries dont do it doesnt justify it in this country is idiotic. You guys are idiots who going to a country and not knowing what to expect. Fact is this is chup change. You guys do knows that every farang who was a business in thailand will be subject to police payout right?

[@scottynguyen4156]

You money go to Israel mate

[@RamzeTravels]

Why would I go to Israel? 😂

[@MrLoverlover843]

A War Zone?

[@londondave800]

Good. Hahahah