Dark Aspects of Paper Mario: The Origami King | A Complete Analysis

[@ThaneGaming]

Update: Dark Aspects of Paper Mario: Color Splash AND Sticker Star are out now: kzbin.info/aero/PLK37aGUr9BMWmBCq49u-_-KmuOIHKdzMk&si=MZOUCnAseU7lqclh 👀 Correction (1:39) - commenter "BenCD the Skypatroller" informed me that fire is not the only way to defeat a Shunned Guy. They can also be defeated with Ice Flowers or Thing cards!

[@MyNaymIsSnek1526]

“Massskasssss” isss the perfect name for Shy Guysss. PUT IT IN THE ENGLISH VERSSSION NINTENDO

[@Preteristboy]

I think the only thing that could've made Bobby's death even wilder would've been if Olivia mistook a generic Bob-omb for Bobby, only to be told that they're all the same with no distinguishing qualities, copes by calling *it* Bobby, only to then watch as said Bob-omb gets launched as explosive ammunition along with hundreds of other of Bob-ombs. ...Oh wait!

[@Yababaina_hands_or_orb_hands]

THAT HAPPENED

[@bodemackie4237]

@@Yababaina_hands_or_orb_hands …that’s the joke

[@Isabeethetransprincess]

There also a detail that even support the "Bobby factory made" theory: Bomb-ombs thay explode without harm always just go in a puff of smoke and a bit of confetti. While enemy (factory made) bomb-omb's, even in past games, explode in a fiery and realistic explosion. When Bombette and Bobery explode, they do the confetti variant and return somewhat tired, almost as if these explosion make them physically exert themselfs. And they can only explode craked surfaces. Bobby's explosion was a big fiery display, powerful enough to destroy an uncracked boulder. Maybe all Bomb-ombs CAN do these sacrificial explosions, but factory bom-omb's are made to be extra powerful, with no regards of what happens to them... Rip Bobby

[@specmoment3592]

I never see anyone bring this up, but in the original Paper Mario we literally see bob ombs that die once they explode, I'm not sure why the subject of Bobby's death is so controversial when in the first game we saw bob ombs dying co existing with Bob ombs that don't die

[@JohnKenn-t6k]

…

[@trainerlsw]

The thought that the Bob-Omb in Bowser's army are artificially altered to have explosions beyond what their mortal limits can take, resulting in their own deaths, is upsetting.

[@zegop5736]

It’s still unsettling how Mario essentially breaks a dogs jaw for a finishing move with the stapler fight

[@tysondennis1016]

Mario is evil comfirmed?!

[@smth35]

​@HarambaeXelonmuskfanslive is evil confirmed?

[@Bonkus..]

@@smth35literally cloudy with a chance of meatballs 2

[@anthonyoliver418]

Do you ever wonder what happens to a stapler’s souls when it is jaw is broken killing it?

[@aquarsene1747]

I know Origami King isn’t perfect but I’m glad that people are talking about how excellent and tragic this game’s story was. You made an amazing point about Olivia, I have no doubt in my mind that she 100% intended to make the wish that she did, including the implication that she would be gone too. As innocent and naive as Olivia was, she watched that innocence completely die inside her throughout the adventure. Her friend Bobby had died for her sake, leaving her to feel as though she was at fault, she watched her world fall into utter chaos, and was then forced to essentially kill her brother by her own hands. (Olly was a monster and absolutely had to be stopped, but my point is that it must have been incredibly traumatic for her to have killed someone she once considered family.) By the end, she had seen just about everything there was to see, that innocence was long gone at that point. I don’t often see many acknowledge it and I’m glad you mentioned that yes, there are many different ways she could have solved the issue. “I wish all the chaos caused by my brother was undone”, “I wish all of these past tragedies could be fixed”, “I wish all the people who had passed away could come back” are just some of the few examples of alternate wishes she could have made that wouldn’t have resulted in her disappearing. However, she had specifically chosen the one where it would include her being unfolded as well. I have no doubt that she specifically wanted to put the entire tragedy behind her, and to Olivia, that meant removing herself from the picture as well. She would no longer have to bear the guilt of Bobby dying for her, she would no longer have to watch those she loves suffer as she did with him and Olly. Olivia had seen practically everything by the end of the adventure, and so, I do think this may have been how she felt it would be best to bring closure to the conflict, which is absolutely heartbreaking. There is so much to dissect regarding Olivia and her intentions. In an era where Paper Mario had struggled with telling effective stories and establishing interesting characters, Olivia is one of the most three-dimensional (no pun intended) and well written characters the series has seen. There’s a lot to discuss and I’m glad more people are talking about it

[@leedlelel2373]

thanks for the depresso expresso. i will now go ahead and cry in a corner for three days.

[@littlefox_100]

Thanks for bringing back my trauma from this game.

[@Oleander_Artz]

Time to start ugly crying over my resurfacing hyperfixation 😭

[@awildnoviceappears]

This implies that Olivia committed suicide to undo everything and put everything behind them... I don't know how to feel about this information

[@TheOneGuy1111]

Another thing I find notable is the holes. They don't seem that horrifying in a world made of paper, but think about it: they are literally holes in the fabric of spacetime.

[@diwang3845]

Or paper time hahahahahahahahahahahhaahhahahahahhahahahahaha

[@jackepicspeederwolfaj2294]

@@diwang3845 holes in the *paper* of spacetime

[@paperclipps551]

The Paper Mistake could easily be something from a horror game; A massive hard-shelled reptile with beady red eyes, which covers itself in (still-living and very uncomfortable) stolen faces which it uses for magic attacks.

[@tysondennis1016]

It’s like Fecto Forgo

[@goddessdeedeebubblesofimag7789]

..............I was gonna bring up Miitopia but damn. Fecto Forgo. They're not wrong

[@PlayAlongEternally]

@@goddessdeedeebubblesofimag7789what enemy from miitopia does this and can I avoid it?

[@goddessdeedeebubblesofimag7789]

@@PlayAlongEternally I'm moreso just referencing Miitopia's whole premise of Mii faces getting stolen and put on monsters. That is. The plot. Of the game. It's not exactly something you can avoid. In fact uhhhhhh... have you played Miitopia or reached the volcano world yet?

[@PlayAlongEternally]

@@goddessdeedeebubblesofimag7789 oh good, that’s what you were speaking of. I’d die if they made a boss covered in faces.

[@lasercraft32]

I like how many unexpected and horrifying instant Game Overs there are in this game. I especially like the one in the Origami Castle, where the floor falls out and Luigi falls. If you jump down after him you'll get a game over... But Luigi returns later on in the story, implying he was able to escape a fate that Mario was unable to in that same situation.

[@-_-blanker-_-4103]

Luigi is just built different

[@MySnugglePuppy]

During the volcano escape section after getting shot down by the airplane, the hole the Paper Macho Bob-ombs fall through has similarities to the falling floor in Peaches Castle, likely meaning falling through it would directly drop you into the volcano.

[@glo_bin]

Fun fact, in Japanese, the name for Bob-ombs is ボムへい, read as bomuhei. While Olivia's "Bobby" nickname for the one Bob-omb is ボム平, also read as bomuhei. The joke is that using kanji makes it sound more like somebody's personal name. 平 specifically is a surname that happens to mean "commonplace"

[@littlefox_100]

That's pretty funny.

[@epikitee2186]

i watched my sister play this game blind and had to keep a straight face when she responded to bobby falling off the bridge with "whoops! guess he's dead. -1 party member" (entirely joking, she didn't think they'd actually cross that line).

[@Oleander_Artz]

OH DEAR GOD- I CAN ONLY IMAGINE HER REACTION WHEN SHE FOUND OUT...

[@epikitee2186]

@@Oleander_Artz yeah it was great. she got COMPLETELY blindsided. didn't think they were genuinely committing to that story beat until the moment she saw the fuse (she had her expectations lowered by previous paper mario games and thought all the foreshadowing was just bad writing). we still joke about it

[@joshuareesor1756]

11:48 To be fair, the child of a god sacrificing themselves to save all people from a terrible fate born from man's despair and sin and then resurrecting afterwards does fit with many of the Christian parallels that Chapter 7 holds, it just needed more build-up and juxtaposition to feel earned. And we can add Fracktail to the friendly death tally, as he's only brainwashed to fight Mario, then visibly breaks apart and dies on screen, with no hint of ever coming back.

[@Dexuz]

Speaking of Chapter 7, there's another parallelism and sort of a commentary to Christianity, when the demon Bonechill snarkily says, referring to Grambi, "the old man can judge the sins of others but not his own". Regardless of whether or not you agree with it, I like the way it's handled, it's a quick statement but it fits the story and the characters, and personally I think it's a way more clever way of handling the Abrahamic God character than the usual "he's actually evil" trope commonly seen in fiction; in my opinion it's way more effective and mature to see a kind god that is obviously trying to do the greater good being put in such position.

[@mr_jonah1673]

Great video! I really enjoyed the dark aspects series a lot! One detail I would want to add is the implication of *why* Bobby remembered his past when seeing the fireworks. All of these explosions, the loud banging noises, the quick burst of light... all of that is exactly what happened all around him during the initial Gooper Blooper attack on the Princess Peach. All the Bob-ombs who were on the ship were fighting it and trying to save the other passengers by throwing themselves at the monster, willfully intending to explode to cause it the most damage. I think it is strongly implied that the fireworks at Shogun Studios made Bobby have a flashback to those exact moments in a PTSD kinda way. And let's not forget: Bobby was also throwing himself at the Blooper with a fully lit fuse before it got knocked off. So he already made the decision to sacrifice himself for others, even before meeting Mario. And when the situation with the boulder happened, he had another opportunity to follow through with that decision he made back then. A chance to change something for the better. To make an impact. RIP Bob-omb a.k.a. Bobby 💣🖤

[@iantaakalla8180]

I like how this means the story of Bobby is a dead serious traumatized soldier story, but in the context of sentient bombs in a Mario world.

[@Yababaina_hands_or_orb_hands]

FIREWORK EXPLODIONS ARE JUST BOMB EXPLODIONS BUT COLORFUL

[@dragonslayersworkshop8598]

Olivia’s sacrifice and the ending hit me HARD during my first playthrough, and it’s the only time I’ve ever cried over a game (not out of frustration that is). Even when I KNEW she was going to die thanks to the other game’s sacrificing their partners, because of how close I felt to Olivia by the end, her death really felt unfounded, and the following ending felt so *raw* after that. Especially the paper lanterns. Damn, Nintendo.

[@agentocto8838]

TOK is really underrated tbh, the amount of emotional moments in this game is absurd, it manages to make you feel bad for the very foes you are told to destroy, the allies you meet all DIE right after you manage to connect with them and I love it

[@Tulip_bip]

I think that tippi and count bleck really did die in super paper mario, and the scene of them together after the credits was just symbolic But i still think its really funny how mario reacts to luigi "dying" in spm, he's just immediately over it and like "there is no time to grieve."

[@thefancydoge8668]

Since the afterlife does exist in the paper mario universe, I always believed that the tree on the hill was part of tippi and count bleck's afterlife.

[@XX-sp3tt]

I always took it as the party member Bob-Ombs were custom models, while Bobby and his ilk were mass produced.

[@ThePonderer]

It’s really crazy how these adventures look so cutesy for the player but are consistently portrayed as horrifying for those actually involved. It’s something you don’t really think about, and I’m glad there’s a video about it.

[@trunguss]

0:47 lol mario just standing there with that expression while not doing anything is hilarious he looks like he's judging the toad for even being in that situation

[@littlefox_100]

"How dare you toad"

[@trunguss]

​@@littlefox_100 You dare die in my presence?

[@ninjaydes]

Even Mario is fed up with generic Toads.

[@thefancydoge8668]

"Great, that's another worthless toad I have to save"

[@AidanDaGreat]

The paper machos are scary, dude. They don’t eat paper; they rip bottomless holes in the fabric of reality.

[@Crimson-Hat]

Olly folding Peach into the castle is the same as skinning someone and using their skin to make a window. Yes, the entire world is made of paper so the castle, the princess, the toads and minions the all the same thing, but not all of the paper is *alive*.

[@ThaneGaming]

I do remember that scene being fairly shocking when I first saw it, and all the more disturbing the further you think about it because you're right! This game gets away with so much body horror due to aesthetic and it all builds up to this

[@StevenJones851]

That screen was very Scary

[@ninjaydes]

I can sleep at night knowing that said window is more dress than skin.

[@TheOneGuy1111]

No, if you skin someone and use their skin to make a window, they'll die. Window-Peach is likely still alive, which, in a way, is even worse.

[@ThaneGaming]

@@TheOneGuy1111 I'm glad you said "likely alive", because there is a possibility that she is dead and Olivia's wish revived her. I do think you're right though, it'd make more sense with her being barely alive (which is definitely worse)

[@anthonyoliver418]

I think Super Paper Mario keeps death as non permanent for characters involved with love, because that fits the theme of how love triumphs, with each character we see only living on because of the fact their love created such a power to allow them to persist, similar to how the pure hearts work, existing only because of love rather than just being the random object we need to progress

[@ohnobro3770]

I think the paper machete goomba slowly turning around was a resident evil reference especially with the chunks on his face

[@ayo.2022]

I really love the fact that they left in Bobby's spirit in the photoshoot at Shogun Studios if you go back there after his death. As someone who also didn't really take Bobby around the park after beating Rubber Band, it kinda felt like the game was calling me out for speeding through the game when I went back for 100% completion. All Bobby wanted to do was find some new friends and make some great memories, and the game doesn't let you realise you could've made all those memories with him until it's far too late. It may be optional and not affect the game in any way, but it's still a responsibility that we missed, and will learn from in subsequent playthroughs. It's a pretty good message for real life too. Life is fleeting and you never know when it's gonna throw you a sudden curveball so don't rush it, just enjoy the ride and let your homies know you appreciate them whenever you can. Rest in peace Bobby, ya big ball of gunpowder. You will be missed.

[@wizmo2216]

I think you’re right about Bobby being one of the generic bob-ombs you fight in the earlier games. He isn’t given his own name, like the bob-ombs that live in Fahr Outpost, or Bub and his family. He’s just Bob-omb. He exists only to explode. He was never meant to grow up and become a train engineer or a businessman or a sailor or a general. He is defined by his existence as a bomb. So him finding meaning in the tiny sliver of life he has is honestly beautiful, ngl.

[@harryguidotti3815]

Bobby's Death and even defeating the Folded Soldiers always kind of disturbed me. For one, we've seen in tons of mario games that when a Bob-Omb explodes they just get covered in soot and blasted back, so watching it mean Death and then recklessly blasting batteries of them out of a cannon just made me feel bad. About halfway through the game, I realized that the folded soldiers were being reduced to confetti and I realized those guys weren't gonna be turned back. Sure, enemies disappear when you beat them in Mario games, but most of the time I'm able to not think about it or assume they're KO'ed or something. Not gonna lie, for how good a game it is, Origami King gave me a lot of bad feels.

[@kios3a]

The thing (for me at least) that hurts about Bobby’s death in that in the manga version he doesn’t die in that scene, he’s left completely alive due to not actually exploding and instead shouting so loud the boulder gets destroyed (yes really). That could’ve been the game’s Bobby, he could’ve been alive, but he’s not.

[@tysondennis1016]

Paper Mario: With more body horror, cults, monetization of organized religion, murder, death, genocide, and nightmare fuel!

[@wildfire9280]

“Oh, who am I kidding? I can’t outlaw straws. Because then only outlaws will have straws.” HAHAHA THIS IS REAL??????

[@ThaneGaming]

It sure is! This game is wild 😆

[@nootnootboopssnoots9707]

Scissors is my favorite boss. I've never played Origami King but the feel of it having a one-shot move sets a chilling sense of fear into players.

[@serenepastel]

How did I not put two and two together that Luvbi returning could’ve just been her joining the afterlife after she died? That makes so much sense! It never even crossed my mind until you mentioned it

[@celesticnova]

This game is so good and I wish it got more love.

[@ThaneGaming]

I've been seeing a lot of negativity towards it lately, which is sad! I really had a lot of fun with this game, even though I am glad to see a return to the traditional battle system with TTYD's remake. I hope once it's out, more people will return to this one and give it another chance because it really does a lot right

[@iancastro1327]

Yeah i love it, ppl are now hating on it bc of TTYD remake wich is sad

[@jameshart2622]

It's the best of the "second trilogy" by a country mile, but I understand why people feel let down by the battle system. Different isn't inherently better or worse, but this one does seem awkward.

[@BergmitetheBlueandPointy0712]

I always say how King Olly is essentially a more serious version of Zant.

[@sonicrunn3r895]

It's so funny how one is from the dark and scary Zelda game and the other is in the colourful paper game

[@BergmitetheBlueandPointy0712]

@@sonicrunn3r895 But in reality both are dark and scary. Just that Twilight Princess take it more seriously.

[@iantaakalla8180]

It gets even worse because while out of context Olly’s complaints are levied against Sticker Star-like complainers, in context Olly was born defiled given he takes origami seriously and you don’t write on origami pieces. Basically, Olly is, in his eyes, a deformed being that defiled nature, ironically akin to the Paper Mistakr.

[@BergmitetheBlueandPointy0712]

@@iantaakalla8180 Well some people do wonder if Olly is inspired to also mock Paper Mario fans, and their aggressive desire to erase all roads from existence. Can’t say if it’s really the worst, as I am really getting sick of the same complaints over and over again, and at least try to appreciate how fun boss musics are something all Paper Mario games have.

[@emerald_erin7051]

I think about the dark aespects of this series all the time, especially Origami King. I'm so glad i finally found a video on such a topic. I really think the type of horror the Paper Mario series goes for is really interesting and honestly I can't wait for more.

[@RylixBlizzai]

i genuinely love origami king so much probably my favourite game in the series despite other fans viewing it as "lacking" compared to the first half of the series i love the comedy moments, but also got really emotional for stuff like the sacrifice scenes love the legion for their strange personalities and fun boss mechanics that just make sense the story and world itself is pretty fun and it's packed full of charm and on top of everything the game itself offers, it introduced me to my closest group of friends through, of all things, a legion of stationary discord roleplay server where the only invites were in the replies of a random comment under a half hour extension video of hole punch's theme, so that probably really helps with my adoration of the game

[@Mr.EintheMorning]

I always figured that Bobby didn't come back because he used his friend's fuse instead of his own. Since it technically wasn't part of his body. Either that or since the boulder wasn't cracked, he had to use more force than your standard explosion to destroy it.

[@triangularfish6487]

The actual explanation I believe is that bowser-made bobombs can only explode once while colored naturally born bob omb can explode unlimited amounts of times. This is consistent with the older games and how they had both infinitely exploding and one-time exploding bobombs

[@complainer406]

​@@triangularfish6487 Yes, that was the theory proposed in the video you're commenting on

[@triangularfish6487]

@@complainer406 yeah I only got to that part of the video after commenting. Whoops lol

[@OriginalGameteer]

​​@@triangularfish6487 I feel like the only debatable part of this theory would be Master Crash and his team from TTYD Who are completely generic looking bob-ombs but don't suffer any consequences from exploding once the match ends

[@thefancydoge8668]

In pretty sure black bomb-ombs can only explode once unless they are specially made like king bomb-omb, also some colored ones were made in bowser's factories too, mostly the pink ones as seen in the mario 64 ds minigame.

[@awesomeocelot7475]

Bobby didn’t work on the ship he was on a vacation on the ship that he and his buddies pooled their money for.

[@ThaneGaming]

I don't know why I said that haha, thanks for the correction! I'll fix it when I do the big compilation video for the modern games

[@8bitlee858]

I took a month away from the game after Bomy’s death to just think about what happened. This is a Mario game, and they actually killed him. When I saw it happened I was like “ ok, ha ha nice try his not actually dead.” But when I saw his ghost I was speechless. I never thought I see an actual death in the Mario series, I was just in shambles after that, it was so, shocking, like this is Mario here, the loving kid friendly franchise for all ages. Never in a 10000000000000000 years did I think something like this would happen.

[@danijadedd]

I cried. I was baffled that a Mario game made me cry.

[@thefancydoge8668]

Bobby's death was pretty tame compared to the other deaths in the series, like in super we literally saw a whole dimension get erased from existence with all the people inside, literally when mario and the gang goes to paper mario's version of hell and heaven, none of the inhabitants of the dimension we saw get wiped are there, basically saying they were erased from existence which is honestly a fate worse than death.

[@8bitlee858]

@@thefancydoge8668 it’s more in the way that, he was a proper character someone who learn about and grow a bond. If your friend or family die you would be devastated, if you heard person you didn’t know die, you feel bad but it wouldn’t be as big for you as the people that know them personally.

[@thefancydoge8668]

@8bitlee858 honestly I never really had a real bond with him, he really doesn't have much dialog since he just keeps disappearing the whole chapter before he dies, I really only felt sad for olivia and tippi since they are with you the whole journey and don't dissappear every 2 seconds. Bobby could've been way more to me if they would actually give you time to spend with him.

[@8bitlee858]

@@thefancydoge8668 I guess that’s true in a sense. Maybe we just have different way of contenting to people and characters in video games.

[@purinsann21403]

Mario : " Wait Bobby! Why don't we just get some tools from the Shogun Studios to break the rock? " Bobby : " I'm sorry Mario,but this is a Paper Mario game.Someone has to die.And I won't count the first Paper Mario Game. "

[@sonicrunn3r895]

I know calling the possibility of Origami King being forgotten and thrown to the wayside in the future is a stretch, given how much grief even just this game has caused for the Paper Mario fandom's obsession with the first 2 games, but I do feel once TTYD and likely more future games incoming in its style arrive, people continue to look back on the genuine strengths of Origami King. Especially the strong attempts to work against the restrictions and give a genuinely damn good story with darker elements. Paper Mario fans can argue all day about how the idea of the restrictions are fake or whatever, but it can't be denied that even working with what hand they were given, they managed to pull something great and at least to me extremely memorable.

[@jacksonvoet8312]

I didn’t think about it, but Olivia making that wish likely brought back the folded soldiers from death and cured them. So, at least there were few permanent casualties. Makes the wish far more important too.

[@Taco_muncher]

The Goomba in the beginning is so sad bro just wanted to see a toad

[@awesomeocelot7475]

My headcanon as to why Bobby died is because the fuse wasn’t his so it wasn’t a natural explosion or something.

[@TipiX_the_most_TopiX]

It was actually my theory as well. If a Bob-omb dies, they can just "respawn" and they are fine, but that is because they are naturally made to do that. While if you force that, you simply... explode. It's probably not like that and TTYD's universe and Sticker Star onwards one are totally different, but ehy! I like the idea of this other rule for the Bob-ombs, to live or die.

[@lasercraft32]

I love that they consider Toads with human-like proportions as "horrifying" and "disgusting." So true. XD

[@koopatroopa7968]

One thing that wasn’t mentioned were the boss themes. The only songs that can match them are the Bowser themes from Mario Galaxy 1 and 2, Mario 64 (both normal and final Bowser), and maybe In The Final from BIS.

[@OctopusPrince]

0:32 I must say, there are a lot of horror elements to the Mario & Luigi games, especially Partners in Time, I thought you would mention it. It’s fascinating how the game can easily switch its tone, to make you understand the stakes behind the story.

[@TheOnionPickle]

I have a third theory about Bobby’s death. Maybe bombs can change the severity of their explosions at will and the weaker ones are unable to harm a bomb. However Bobby had to create a larger explosion to fully destroy the bolder , killing him with in the process

[@thenight8796-c2j]

Oh yeah, that's right...

[@shrobbyy]

Bobby being a regular Bob-Omb unlike Bombette and Bobbery makes sense why Bobby didn't come back ...

[@iantaakalla8180]

For all being limited to mainline Mario characters has done, Bobby’s part in the story is something they could have done with only a normal Bob-omb. Clearly, the developers are straining at the seams to make something, and in the case of Bobby it worked and was unique.

[@jameshart2622]

The best, most effective use of the inane world building restrictions they faced.

[@ls190v2]

They're unique (Naturally-birthed?), with Bombette having a ponytail-ish fuse and a pink shell and Bobbery having a wheel and likely having a hair-like fuse too (It's covered), while Bobby looked completely normal (Factory-made?), with a black shell (I'm not trying to be racist) and average sticky-uppy fuse. Bowser likely saw a naturally-birthed Bob-Omb and tried to replicate it for an undying sudoku bomber, but couldn't nail the non-fatal explosion.

[@andreworders7305]

12:59 and his amnesia is linked to another horror trope on the boat

[@togeluga_the_cat]

this reminds me a lot of older tv shows like samurai jack "as long as they are robots, you can main, crush, evicerate or brutalize the hell out of them" while yeah for us its just paper, for them its literaly who they are, they dont realy view this with any comic twist or paper related humor most of the time, only the more recent paper mario games lean into these paper jokes, but its still who they are, some one getting cut in half or having their face stolen its still that

[@LeetleToady7]

Me reading the comments and discovering I am like the one person who actually enjoys the battle system in ToK

[@ThaneGaming]

I liked it better than Sticker Star & The Color Splash's battles! I think the ring system is clever and fun, but it does start to get a little tedious in the late game imo. I loved TOK's boss fights!

[@Scorbunzx]

It was confusing at first but it’s really satisfying when you get a good turn.

[@gregritferdjr]

@@ThaneGamingyou liked origami king’s battle mechanics more than the origami king’s battle mechanics?

[@ThaneGaming]

@@gregritferdjr haha oops, I meant I liked TOK's fights more than Sticker Star & Color Splash

[@MatthewWeinberg-lr6kv]

I did like the battle system, but I thought it wasn’t dynamic enough to hold up for the entire game without getting tedious.

[@hellilassila1397]

Oh great you made me cry again

[@JustJulyo]

Bobby was the closest to partners we would've had to the original series

[@Jaffersin]

My big issue with Olivia's sacrifice and probably why it isn't as talked about is that we're three for three on the helper character sacrificing themselves at the end at extreme risk to themselves or four if you count the events of Super. It's just getting a little tiresome.

[@MatthewWeinberg-lr6kv]

That’s true, but on the other hand, you could say that the past trend makes Olivia’s death all the more effective as a subversion of expectations. Timpani, Kersti, and Huey are all not gone for good-Timpani is implied to at least be living on in the afterlife, Kersti gets wished back to life, and Huey seemingly never actually died at all. And throw Bobby in there too, since he’s still around as a ghost. Thus, we’re conditioned to expect that Olivia’s sacrifice will not be permanent and she’ll be fine, making it all the more shocking and tragic when she DOES truly die.

[@Rhyusfox]

So... were the "wished back" bits a 100% completion thing?

[@MatthewWeinberg-lr6kv]

@@Rhyusfox No, Kersti comes back in Sticker Star’s standard ending. She turns into a battle sticker to beat Bowser, sacrificing herself in the process, but after Bowser is beaten Mario gets to use the combined power of the six Royal Stickers to make a wish, and he wishes for Kersti to be revived.

[@Jaffersin]

@@MatthewWeinberg-lr6kv None of that changes that it's rather cheapened in the moment, especially since the pattern being so established can put you on your guard well before it happens.

[@anondabomb]

Here’s how she could have reworded her wish, “I wish Ollie never cared about having been written on.”

[@ThaneGaming]

That's pretty brilliant actually, I wonder if by some cosmic coincidence he'd find another way to hate Toads though 😅

[@geoffabbythomas7293]

​@@ThaneGaming"i wish olly never hated toads in any way whatsoever" there fixed it

[@salmuttotabreabittlecochicarac]

I still think that bob-ombs and bob-omb buddies are different, the buddies are weaker, having smaller explosions but can be used more than once, while the mass-produced ones put their all into the blast and sacrifice themselves for a much bigger explosion.

[@flareblitz198]

Glad I got away from the paper macho chain chomp the first time I encountered it, because that was just... wow.

[@pangake]

haha, the art thing caught me off guard. also had a laugh at the vinny vinesauce clip, good stream.

[@ThaneGaming]

I didn't know it was possible to get an instant gameover during Olly's fight until I saw the stream! The scream was so good, I had to use it (I turned the volume down like 30 decibels though haha)

[@uroskesic6117]

I hope this video gets more views because you deserve the support

[@ThaneGaming]

Thanks for the kind words, I'm glad you enjoyed the video and cared enough to comment!

[@galaxystarroad]

I must say, I'm in the 4th chapter and, so far, I've picked up most of this horror aspects of the game that sometimes surprises me and kinda makes me laugh and, at the same time, feel creeped out due to them being paper but kinda being self-aware of their weaknesses and establishing a connection to the human weaknesses and we are really fragile as well... The Lamp death scene, when I got it, caught me off guard, the boss in the dance floor creeped out because I was not expecting it to crop Mario's face. I mean, it makes sense but I don't know why I wasn't expecting it but watching how Mario fits into the machine and it crops his face out shocked me a lot even though I know it's paper... This game sometimes scares me with how many connections I can think of to actual human beings... I found it really funny the artist comment from Olivia because I agree with her and I thought of one or two artist when she said the quote. This game is surprising me so much with the writing and funny/scary moments it has, I can bear with the combat system but the exploration, scenery, graphics and Olivia are definitely pushing me to go play it to its fullest, I wasn't expecting to enjoy this game this much but I'm being constantly surprised. If only the Battle Animations were shorter or faster, it'd be perfect imo. Also, that folded Peach as a trophy is so scary as well because my mind goes to the darkest places to imagine her as a her usual look trapped on the wall and being fused with her as a statue and becoming death. I think playing the game as an adult is scarier than as a kid haha.

[@afishhouttawater]

I have played paper mario ttyd once a year (at least) for almost a decade and bobbery reading scarlettes letter makes me cry harder every time

[@ThaneGaming]

Bob-ombs get the tragic stories in these games 😭 the music in the remake that plays during that scene is especially heartbreaking

[@dacoolestskirrel]

when i watched the playthough of origami king i cried when bobby had to die.

[@sneakysileny]

"RIP in pieces" is actually evil

[@kennycarter5682]

the toad murals are cool. they remind me of toads being more human like.. based on how these newer paper mario games are. i wonder what is next if ttyd remake sells well. the next paper mario game may be far more darker and exciting

[@averagetemp3014]

I've actually had theories that only rare and special members of the Bob-omb species could self-destruct an unlimited amount of times. I've also theories that 64 to Super takes place in the original PM universe, and that Color Splash and Origami King(I'm *not* counting Sticker Star) take place in an alternate universe.

[@jessywinters9666]

Wallet? Wet floor sign? Nah, Bowser's a pizza box Edit: 3:59 I forgot to put a timestamp lol

[@milktea543]

Granted, Bobby looks very genetic compared to the previous friendly and bob-ombs partners, which may imply that there's more than just one distinct difference and not just visual. Genetic/factory black ones are probably literally made/born to die, whileas the specialized ones are likely to withstand all the damages (and likely have the tools to, well, procreate to continue their species...?). Of course there's probably different damage outputs as well, if you'd like to compare the sizes of the partners' explosions--and Bobby's the biggest of them all. The fact he could only do it once...Well, I don't think I need to say any further lol Just some food for thoughts, since visually, the first two bob-omb partners are _very_ different to Bobby and still stand out from their other bob-omb npc counterparts in their respective games (with most still looking unique themselves too, even if it's mostly just color changes). Bobby though? You couldn't pick him out from the crowd full of other factory bob-ombs. That said, I'm only speaking from the angle where each of the mainline paper mario game would be considered canon and still in the same universe though. My points above would just fall apart otherwise lol Anyway I rambled enough, great video as always and thanks for the CC, Thane!

[@ThaneGaming]

Oh, I hope I explained myself well enough in the video! The reason I had brought up the inorganic/factory black Bob-ombs is because that’s definitely what Bobby is--Olivia mistakes one of the many fired off as live ammunition towards the end as Bobby because they all look identical, so it’s a plot point directly addressed in the story of the game. I’m realizing I never outwardly said that though so sorry if I didn’t make it clear! I almost mentioned the different power outputs too…I hesitated because both Bombette and Admiral Bobbery have special moves that create massive blasts, but you could still say Bobby’s is bigger with a much more fiery explosion. Thank you for the comment, you’re welcome on the CC. I will always continue to provide them!

[@emilymartic7120]

the way you worded hole punch reminds me of miitopia

[@ls190v2]

Slight defence for Luvbi's resurrection: It's probably not really canon, and is just used as a silly little "what if" thing, and only secret-hunting players would find Luvbi reborn. To any other player, they'd just think Luvbi as a being is gone, lost in the deepest depths of the white Pure Heart of Sacrifice.

[@Chiisaru]

Man I do love Origami King and It's story. Definetly a top 3 of the franchise for me.

[@komlat253]

The story is probably the best along side super

[@alexandrevachon541]

This game perfectly depicts body horror.

[@aceash5.065]

My theory is that there a different species of Bob-ombs. Some can survive their explosions, others can’t. Bobbery and Bombette are different from Bobby. Bobby is the standard suicide bomb, like the ones who work for Bowser. So, just like his species bomb brethren in combat, he cannot survive his self destruct.

[@jacksonvoet8312]

Maybe it’s like a cloning situation. Humans can be cloned, and people have argued the process is “an abomination against the lord”, but the reason we can’t clone humans legally? The cloning process doesn’t work as well with us due to humans being extremely susceptible to cancer, so it was cruel to try it. Maybe in the process of creating the single-minded, hyper explosive and generic Bob-ombs, a part of what makes natural Bob-ombs able to resist their own explosions was lost in the mix.

[@TheMarioBBB]

Luvbee coming back seems like a jesus being revived joke

[@Craftomon360]

This deserves more views man

[@novicecreed]

Man I wish I hadn't gotten spoiled about bobby's death back then thanks to someone's yt thumbnail and title... I admit I had trouble liking him simply cuz I found him overly lazy and the fact that he (i think same issue with all the partners in this game) barely helped me out in battle so it already made the annoying system (for me anyway) more annoying. I did feel bad for him, but maybe the shock of it would have made me actually respect him fully and such. Tho gotta admit I did not expect to see his spirit in the picture tho, so that did catch me off guard and tugged a bit my feels.

[@ThaneGaming]

It is kinda funny how Intelligent Systems made partners in this game useless for the most part (though Kamek and Bowser/Bowser Jr. were pretty helpful). I agree that if Bobby had more drive & utility in and outside of battle it would've increased his likeability, giving that moment an even greater impact. His ghost appearing in the photos is such a nice touch--I wonder if he's able to properly move on once Olly is defeated so he doesn't have to haunt Shogun Studios forever lol

[@spagheleton]

very interested vid :3 i dunno much about origami king but this was so cool

[@ThePlushParties2]

When I first saw rubber band in the trailer, I thought he was a Frankenstein of wires, which, scared me even more than the real thing did

[@joannetrueman6838]

when i first saw Rubber Band i see it as An effigy of A Wiker Man a figure mad out of stikes but instead its rubber bands

[@superpatchemario]

Mario is heaading close to splatoons level of dark bro

[@justjames4]

Yeah, I like the way the game handles tragedy. Thanks for reminding me of it. Good analysis video. 👍

[@magtea3836]

The darkest thing about this game is how despite its amazing visuals, phenomenal soundtrack, and great story, the battle system keeps me from enjoying any of it.

[@ThaneGaming]

I didn't mind the battles in this game as much as others did (and I even really enjoyed the boss fights), but I do prefer the battle system of the first two games. I'm happy to see a return with the TTYD remaster next month; they've been trying to reinvent the wheel ever since Super Paper Mario lol. At least you can enjoy those aspects of the game secondhand with KZbin videos!

[@magtea3836]

@@ThaneGamingI shall live vicariously through your video

[@RazorBladezX]

I couldn’t finish the game over the boss battles. I got tired of repeating it after loss after loss .

[@ThaneGaming]

@@RazorBladezX do you remember which one you got stuck on?

[@uroskesic6117]

@@RazorBladezXIt s not that hard tbh

[@YesImFine]

Why was the first thing Nintendo did after killing off a beloved character be to not make one joke, not two, but three jokes about it almost immediately after?

[@imadesmond]

I love bobombs. Lil ball guys

[@uroskesic6117]

This game truly was special

[@ThaneGaming]

Agreed! It's one of my favorite Switch games, I really had a fun time with it and the story is genuinely very good

[@uroskesic6117]

@@ThaneGaming It is also one of my favorite switch games

[@cad4871]

There's a much simpler explanation for the Bob-omb thing-- it's based on the size of the explosion. When you fight King Bob-omb in Paper Jam, if you run out of time, he does a massive explosion implied to kill him, and you get a Game Over. However, King Bob-omb does smaller explosions quite frequently in other games, and is just fine. Bobby's explosion is much bigger than that of Bombette and Bobbery-- too big for his body to handle.

[@Alpha-oo8]

I see people complaining about bobby being a generic bobomb, that he wasn’t unique, but honestly, that’s the whole point of the character!

[@TheGreatPM1]

This game is so underrated, it deserves more praise

[@sadib100]

Wouldn't an exorcist be the opposite of whatever that is?

[@ThaneGaming]

Lol it's true, a Shy Guy exorcist would banish evil demons, not be one itself. Should've named it Shy Guy Pazuzu

[@astralbirthvoid2551]

​@@ThaneGaming shy guy sleep paralysis demon

[@MatthewWeinberg-lr6kv]

An excellent and timely remake! Four years haven’t changed my stance on two things: I love the crap out of this game, and Olivia’s casual line about the enemy-explosion party still baffles me. The fact that it’s just glossed over, with seemingly no one on the outside OR in the game realizing what a messed-up thing to say that really is…I said it in my comment that made it into the video in the first place, and I’ll say it again: *what the hell, Olivia?!*

[@arniguidi]

What line are you referring to?

[@cccosmo112]

freaky! i will be sure to remember this next time i eat paper

[@AdaTheWatcher]

The difference between bobby and character bob-ombs might be the amount of gunpowder. Since partner and friendly bob-ombs can't explode that big.

[@Jcc8t7]

I enjoyed this! Nice job Thane Gaming! Always a thought provoking video.

[@ThaneGaming]

I'm glad you liked it enough to comment, thanks for the kind words!

[@iancastro1327]

I cant believe i cried with a paper mario game 2 times i will forever remember Bobby and Olivia also banging Soundtrack

[@alkv7604]

I personally believe in the explosions of bomb-ombs, they can "choose" the power of their explosion, like how loud we can speak. And the enemies (Aside the game rules) explode near passing out range, but Bobby thought it wouldn't be enough, so he went all out

[@ivanbluecool]

Thane gaming: I played and read the story Everyone: how did you survive?.

[@mariodominguez1999]

I have a question for you. Which movie has a better underdog story, the lego movie or kung fu panda? I ask because thanks to chris pratt and jack black, I am imagining paper mario the thousand year door as a crossover between both aforementioned movies. Emmet and po are both special heroes who in my crossover, are both looking for the crystal stars. I am making a series of drawings of that, and I even drew my own DreamWorks logo variation of paper mario fishing on the crescent moon with the paper mario word font reading the name of the studio underneath the crescent moon. I wish I could show you that drawing, and three more.

[@SunbearSmoke]

Bobby's death made me singlehandedly hate the entirity of the rest of the game. Not once in any point of Paper Mario, or any mario iirc, has it canonically shown bobombs to DIE WHEN THEY EXPLODE.

[@hotpockethumorDL]

3 good paper Mario themes 1: event battle (tok) 2: miniboss theme (tok) 3: event battle (sticker star)

[@AndrewEriksBookReview]

The true darkest thing is the getting eaten violently by the chomp in the green streamer. That scared the heck out of me when I was young playing this game😢

[@ReddyToAnimate]

I’ve cut the fuse off of my bob-omb plush to make a Bobby plush to express my love for him. I even made a redesign of Bobby’s ghost form by giving him a ghostly tail instead of feet.

[@jeydiag5362]

I think that the darkest thing in the game was the fact that Olly made the 999 cranes with Toads, when Bowser himself tolf Olly that it was crazy because the Toads couldn't come back from that. That means that Olly killed them, doing a genocide.

[@iKiwed]

I agree with the ending. TTYD is probably the best Paper Mario game. But TOK is my personal favorite Paper Mario, because of the way they used their limited freedom (at the times, at least) to make something original. And despite of not having the RPG system we love and a true progression system, I was always engaged by the adventure. My hope, which seems to be close to reality, is that the next Paper Mario can get the best of both TTYD and TOK :)