That's It For Pon Holdings Bikes? Cervélo, Cannondale, Santa Cruz, GT Bicycles

[@IKnowAGuyBicycles]

Pon Holdings plays a major role in the cycling world, but what are your thoughts? Too big to fail? What about Trek: kzbin.info/www/bejne/q32xhqNnm52il7s Or Specialized: kzbin.info/www/bejne/kILHemN8rLykgbc

[@JohnDough-yr2zt]

Spesh not too big to fail, too smart. They can always go back to just making tires.

[@HoldenDoesBikeStuff]

No bike company is too big to fail.

[@sammyboy2038]

Pon is just getting ready for ebike usa had to purchase all the distributors first

[@mikec8815]

The only way they would be to be to fail is if they were union shops and politicians were worried about votes.

[@314Aurelius]

I work in the industry. Word is that Trek is the brand who owes a few hundred million to Giant, and millions to a components manufacturer.

[@larryt.atcycleitalia5786]

Like Specialized did to Merida? Ended up handing 1/2 of the company to them? Or back-in-the-day when Gary Fisher handed things over to Pacific...long before he sold-out to Trek?

[@JoseMedina-ms5jg]

I’m more upset that you let your coffee get cold. Not a single sip. 😅

[@firepigg37]

That looks like it's more milk than coffee. I wouldn't drink it either 😅

[@IKnowAGuyBicycles]

I'm surprised I didn't spill it.

[@jayobannon5359]

To much cream in that cup

[@123wassilie]

I’m not convinced it’s just baileys

[@jayobannon5359]

maybe a pinch of Redbreast as well@@123wassilie

[@ShawnIsBatman]

I live in Omaha, NE and in the past couple of years, Trek has bought-out two of our better local shops (one of them was the largest shop) which are now Trek Stores. I still choose to use one of those shops for my service work because the staff that works the service department is largely the same and over the years they earned my trust. From a consumer perspective, I do not like the fact that the Trek branded store now carries less of a variety of merchandize as they now carry the Trek/Bontrager brands almost exclusively. I do not believe that we have any Specialized corporate stores in my area yet. I believe that we will see a continued consolidation of Trek and Specialized buying into the local markets along with a continued expansion of the direct-to-consumer options from many brands. Thank you for your content and perspective, very interesting!

[@IKnowAGuyBicycles]

A lot of communities have flipped to corporate-owned stores, especially if there was a dominant multi-chain in the area that sold to Trek or Specialized. Many staff stay on through the acquisition but still have to play the corporate game.

[@brockjennings]

I always enjoy your cycling industry insights and laid-back delivery. No hype, just facts and focused observations.

[@IKnowAGuyBicycles]

Thanks for watching!

[@HoldenDoesBikeStuff]

Pon holdings is NOT the one in financial trouble lol. They aren’t in the car or bike industry, they’re in the transportive industry. Personal transportation. The takes here… whew

[@Echelon-vh6fq]

You guys need to get your facts right... Cannondale, Cervelo and Santa Cruz do not outsource to Giant in any way, si it can't be them that are short paying Giant. Specialized get their bikes done by Merida who owns 49% of Specialized. Trek however does massively outsources Giant to build bikes/frames etc. If anyone ows money to Giant, maybe, just maybe, it could be Trek? BTW, PON is bigger than Trek or Specialized... they have no cash flow issues

[@IKnowAGuyBicycles]

Thank you for sharing your insights.

[@olympic97s]

I’m a pon employee and I’m here for it all. Those discounts are sweet

[@jedisdad2265]

Pon likely has deeper pockets than Trek. Pon is much larger than bicycles. Perhaps you’ve heard of Porsche, Audi, Volkswagen….

[@HoldenDoesBikeStuff]

VW is hurting rn. But you’re absolutely right, it’s not PON holdings in trouble

[@jrmhng]

They run distributorships, they don't own the marquees

[@ivanboesky1520]

They own all the bicycle companies mentioned in this vid, not just distributorships of those bicycles.

[@jrmhng]

@@ivanboesky1520 they own the bicycle brands mentioned in the video. They do not own the car marquees mentioned in the comment i.e. Porsche, Audi, Volkswagen. They are the distributors for those car marquees in various regions.

[@PRH123]

​@@jrmhng Odd that those manufacturers would need a distributor, seems like a very outdated business model at first glance. Why add a middleman and another mouth to feed in the middle of the chain. Would be interesting to know what role they actually play. Wouldn't be surprised to learn that VW etal executives are themselves stockholders in Pons.

[@garybird8646]

No supplier is immune to the industry downturn.

[@jduarte1506]

Good video, excellent, I'm about to buy a bike and I'm between the Salsa Cutthroat C GRX 810 2x and the Santa Cruz Stigmata, although I also have the Canyon Gryzl on the list, but I wanted to know which of these bike manufacturers makes their bikes better and which would be better.

[@IKnowAGuyBicycles]

Those are all good choices; it will come down to what will best suit the kind of riding you see yourself doing. QBP owns Salsa, and they are not going anywhere. Santa Cruz is a Pon Holdings product, and they are huge. Canyon has reported positive numbers in the 18 months. In short, all these brands are going to be around for a while.

[@brandoncavnar9179]

PON had big time revenue last year.

[@jahairl227]

Not sad at all of the big bike brands. They have all lost sight of their customer base. How many folks can afford to purchase and maintain bikes above $2k. Used is the way to go while aligning with a quality local bike shop.

[@sammcclanahan3291]

My guess is Specialized is would be next to fail. I think Pon holdings is a transportation company with an eye on the future and solid finances.

[@justinhall3469]

I'd agree. Specialized spread themselves way too thin and tried to sponsor too many riders and teams

[@jc2478]

Specialized aint goin anywhere. They build good bikes and that means something

[@znon_]

They might be getting sold to the Walton family because they are looking for a biywr

[@RyonBeachner]

Everything I have heard it’s Trek who is in trouble sitting on 6 years worth of inventory on certain lines.

[@PeterCPRail8748]

Good on them, their pricing has been out to lunch for 6 years now. Hence, why they are suffering. The world is going through a major recession, borderline depression. People currently don't have the money to buy 3000 grand plus US bikes, and since the vast majority of MTBs now being priced over the 3000 grand line other than hardtails. The industry is flundering. Good on them I wo t shed a tear. The smart companies will restructure their pricing model and go back to pre 2015 ranges. The greedy companies that continue to fleece the consumer will go bye bye. For me I keep on investing in my 2015 Gaint trance by buying upgraded parts as I need them. I refuse to spend 5000 to 7000 grand Canadian today for the same spec bike I bought in 2016 on sale as it was a 2015 model for 2500 taxes in from a regular price of 2899 plus tax.

[@RyonBeachner]

@@PeterCPRail8748 “grand” is slang for a thousand. I also refuse to spend $7,000,000 on a bicycle. These companies are sitting on too much inventory because their purchasing managers forward looking projections were far too optimistic and dealers were over ordering to try and increase their chances of securing delivery. The market became saturated as demand fell with the pandemic winding down. I’m sorry you’re being priced out of the market. You won’t see 2015 prices again, period. Global inflation guarantees that.

[@MadonutHole]

I believe Trek only has just over 250 corporate stores in North America. With a current listing of 1700 "Trek Stores" in North America, they have to be including independent bike dealers.

[@stevent5050]

What is the name of the online retailer you mentioned along with Jenson USA. "Hollywood" something?

[@IKnowAGuyBicycles]

lol, it’s Planet Cyclery. For some reason I got stuck on the restaurant. Planet Hollywood.

[@stevent5050]

@@IKnowAGuyBicycles Thank you!! I played that 3 - 4 times over, wondering why the hell you were talking about Hollywood!! 😁🤣

[@ErichVonCartmann]

Very nice video. This was very educational. If you think about it, does any of us really need a local LBS? I am sure we all could do just fine without a local bike shop. Even complicated stuff such as suspension could all be performed at home.

[@roddas26]

Most people can't be bothered to learn how to fix their bikes. LBS's will always be around.

[@ErichVonCartmann]

@roddas26 , of course they will always be around. I myself try to use my LBS as much as possible. I am just saying, if I am trying to save money, I would totally avoid my LBS altogether.

[@IKnowAGuyBicycles]

They will be around and be needed, but they will look a lot more like me. (Small) or like Quick Lube, Big O Tires, etc.

[@ErichVonCartmann]

@IKnowAGuyBicycles, yes, LBS will always be around, but you have to admit, if a person really wants to save money on bicycles, he should do the work himself. A bicycle is NOT a Rocket Engine. They are very simple devices, and anyone can learn to work on a bicycle as long as he has patience. myself try to use my LBS as much as possible. I do work on my own bikes, so I know the work involved. I never haggle with prices, and I use the same group of guys to work on my bikes. As a regular customer, they all tend to charge me a fair price. I use my LBS because sometimes I would rather work on other home projects than my bicycles.

[@daniellarson3068]

It would be interesting if some of the lesser known brands were discussed. I saw one called Poseidon selling the other day. They were much less expensive than the big names. There are a whole lot of less expensive road bikes sold on Amazon. They sell for much less than the bike shops. Are they all junk? Are some of them rebranded versions of the major bike brands?

[@IKnowAGuyBicycles]

Some are department store quality, so you have to be careful.

[@OutThere42]

Poseidon makes serviceable bikes. Direct to consumer.

[@davidpalk5010]

Same spec but lower cost usually means less warranty back-up and accountability. Also perhaps less R+D, QC and sponsorships. For a mainstream brand, costs in addition to the product are significant, and have to be covered in the price. You may value this kind of assurance or not. I would always pay more for a brand where they have invested in a reputation which they need to protect by assuring high quality and providing good service if there's a problem.

[@daniellarson3068]

@@davidpalk5010 It can also mean less marketing. Marketing helps sales, but adds little to the utility of the product for the consumer. More marketing increases the price. I've seen many products that are as good or nearly as good to "Brands" for less money. Are bicycles an outlier and are an exception to this?

[@davidpalk5010]

@@daniellarson3068 Marketing adds real value. Nobody will be laughed at for riding a Trek or Spesh, but turning up on a "China XYZ" would have my riding buddies in fits.

[@dutchbicyclerides-ss1ko]

Unless something really weird happened Pon Holdings will be fine : "AMSTERDAM (BRAIN) - Pon Holdings revenue increased 23% year-over-year to reach $10 billion euros ($10.9 billion) for the first time in company history, while Pon. Bike revenue was 2.4 billion euros ($2.62 billion)" thats the numbers presented in April 2023 so we have to wait for the 2023 numbers in April. They also make a good profit on this last period (i think it was 600M+ if i remember correctly last year). They not a one pony company either with 4 areas, 16000 people in 34 countries. Could they be in trouble ? pfffff maybe but if so it would have to be from their car companies really to get into so much trouble.

[@jhgylugkfhfhlgf]

Pon is not the one in trouble; if they do reorg their bikebrands it is to align with their strategy and/or get a better mix in their portfolio. Through the grapevine I did hear that Accell group has some issues though (which may or may not be related to KKR having bought it just 2 years ago). Maybe you or your sources mixed this up as they're both HQ'ed in The Netherlands?

[@IKnowAGuyBicycles]

Yeah, it was Trek that had issues.

[@harrylen1688]

I love long distance biking 300-500m For the last 30y I have owned couple different Brand's but the last 10 years I had Specialized. All I can say love the way the fitting on me Is kind off become one with it This year tested the new Sirrus 5.0 short story I fall in love Of course Money matters but this is the one :) BTW Im not in to every year new bike this is for the next 5 to10 years. Personally I can understand the Bike industry thought Specialized is keeping their consumer products in cosistence quality and that counts. Small bike shops many of them Have become greedy with disapointing repairs which most of the time I rather pay for and never got back Its a 50-50 situation!!

[@IKnowAGuyBicycles]

Thanks for sharing.

[@JohnDough-yr2zt]

The people that bought cheap Covid bikes and discovered riding bikes is fun are going to start needing help from their LBS.

[@chuckfrizzell8668]

Thanks for the insight on the industry…any word or opinion of Canyon. I’m looking for a midrange Gravel bike. Thanks in advance. From Colorado Springs.

[@IKnowAGuyBicycles]

They are a good brand and value. They also reported some profits last year. Most customers are pretty happy with their products, but some local shops have issues servicing them because of their conflict of direct-to-consumer. (not the bike tech)

[@kamfire98]

Say what you want about PON but their purchase from Dorel certainly paid a lovely dividend 🙏 I sure they do survive

[@Spoolingturbski]

I really hope Cannondale doesn’t go anywhere. They are such an iconic brand with rich history. I just bought a brand new Habit for $2,500 and I hope more do as well.

[@IKnowAGuyBicycles]

They will be around for a while. The parent company is so vast and diverse.

[@davidpalk5010]

I was in the trade as an independent dealer, and fortunately got out when we had to start competing with our own suppliers. Having your brands selling direct and undercutting you, and then consumers expecting free warranty backup because you're a dealer for the brand they bought direct at a low price, simply can't be sustained. Also, when components can be bought from online retailers for less than a dealer pays from the official importer, that's obviously unsustainable also. Now add your best customers expecting price matching, and, well, you're finished.

[@IKnowAGuyBicycles]

That is so true, and what I'm doing will be more the norm going forward. Small, Heavy Service, Used Parts and Bikes, and other services relating to entry-level and those getting into the sport. Thank you for sharing.

[@raptordriver7340]

Top end bikes are ridiculous in pricing. It is cheaper to get a motorbike with a real engine. Premium bicycles more or less are a rip off.

[@damionmiller4366]

Bicycles don’t require insurance, registration, licensing and gas… making them more affordable to operate and maintain.

[@ivanboesky1520]

Yeah, and bicycles are extremely limited in what you can do with them. Bicycles don’t take you on your 30 mile commute each day, don’t let you put the family in them for a family vacation or permit you to load them up with groceries or trips to HD. Bicycles are priced moronically high for what you are actually getting. A motorbike has exponentially more tech and real manufacturing costs in its engine and braking and suspension systems than any complete non powered bike on the planet. The fact you can buy a brand new Kawasaki Ninja 650 out the door brand new for about $7K and many of these idiots want $13-15K for a non powered bicycle is a laughable joke. And your argument about taxes, gas etc… is moronic at best. A HotWheels toy car costs less to maintain than a bicycle. Does that mean it’s a good deal to buy if it cost as much as a bicycle or even twice as much clown? 😀

[@raptordriver7340]

OK. $20K+ of carbon fibre and powered by the heart and lycra. Fool me once shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me! @@damionmiller4366

[@IKnowAGuyBicycles]

I agree that the prices are way too high, but they also don't provide entry-level pricing. The New Kids 20" bike from Specialized retails for $500 and is on sale for $350. That's way too much, even when on sale. You can buy a used one for less than $100, put $50 off new parts, and have the same bike. (Really, the same bike)

[@manfredstrappen7491]

@@damionmiller4366Nevertheless, a bicycle has fewer parts and is much less complex than a motorcycle. An MTB usually has to be driven to the trailhead to used. So you still need a car.

[@Kaspurr84]

Santa Cruz founder announced going to Specialized today in big bike news.

[@jklivin2007]

sooooooo……..which brands would you stay away from, Specialized, Santa Cruz, Giant??? 🤔

[@IKnowAGuyBicycles]

If the price is right, they are all still good. These brands will not totally disappear; they just change owners.

[@OneKING_77]

What's up with Scott Bikes? I never hear anything at all about scott. Good or bad

[@IKnowAGuyBicycles]

I'll have to do some digging. Thanks for watching!

[@OneKING_77]

Thanks for the videos. I'm an old bmx guy and im just now getting into mtb in my 30s so I'm looking for people on KZbin to catch up and I found you. Good content 👌🏽

[@6ft8incyclist]

Gaint bicycles is selling out Going to be sold in Dicks sports Big box stores.

[@IKnowAGuyBicycles]

Sounds like it.

[@6ft8incyclist]

@@IKnowAGuyBicycles Talked my Local Bicycle SHOP owner a HUGE giant fan. he told me only lower end (little Giants) are going to Dicks.

[@bikenraider99]

Seems like the bike industry followed the auto industry down the merger & acquisition hole. I can't remember which bike company was public for a while. Cannondale comes to mind; but ultimately crashed as a penny stock and got delisted.

[@jasoncapecod]

i'm in the market for a ebike..prices haven't budged at all...

[@IKnowAGuyBicycles]

They are still very popular.

[@manfredstrappen7491]

Oh yeah? I just got a Bulls AM4 750 that was originally $6k for $3500.

[@bicyclelife7088]

You called it. Gt is shutting down.

[@IKnowAGuyBicycles]

It a say day for sure. Don’t like seeing what’s most likely coming up in the next few years.

[@phoffen3829]

Big manufacturers want to get into direct sales in a lot of businesses these days. Why have a middle man, when they can make the money directly? It is a lot like the old days, where a maker of something would sell out of his own shop, only on a grand scale. There won't be any independent dealers before long, for good or bad.

[@IKnowAGuyBicycles]

It's like Performance Bike, right? There will be IBD but they will start to look a lot different.

[@qwerty6789x]

i'd rather support the local bike shops with my hard earned money that doesn't slap & spit at me for being poor like these big brand bike showrooms

[@jaredfontaine2002]

Giant couldn't pay its bills the other month

[@anthonyhuber-permanentlyre7808]

*Is Kestrel still making bikes?* 🤨

[@IKnowAGuyBicycles]

Looks like they are no longer.

[@anthonyhuber-permanentlyre7808]

@@IKnowAGuyBicycles *Damn, I liked them.* Thx for the reply.

[@MrLmb4682]

Praying not!! We have Santa Cruz and cannondale at our shop. My concern would be the major tariff increases for imports

[@ChrisGeorge4]

Come down to Longmont Bicycle Company and visit us. We're a Trek dealer in the Front Range and we're doing great. Come down from Loveland and say Hi! Love your videos and insights. Cheers!

[@IKnowAGuyBicycles]

Love to swing by and see your shop and get your insights on being a Trek dealer these days.

[@redlegds_adventures]

Never had a good feeling about Pon Holdings

[@schsch2390]

Pon Cervelo connection is distributorship not brand ownership.

[@ivanboesky1520]

Wrong. Pon bought Cervelo directly from Cervelo’s original owners including Gerard Vroomen. They own Cervelo the company, not just distributorship rights. Pon also owns Dorel Sports, who are the parent company of brands like CrackandFail, GT and Schwinn. They also directly own Santa Cruz bicycles.

[@IKnowAGuyBicycles]

Yeah, they own those brands and own/partnership with Mike's Bikes as their retail locations.

[@Peter-c5n5l]

I think all the bike manufacturers are going to be in trouble. Election year, everyone is going to spend their money on guns and ammo, when a bike costs over $5000 a person has to think hard whether to buy that or pay a few bills and get a great used bike for $1500

[@manfredstrappen7491]

Somehow I don’t see the bike crowd being the “I’m a little snowflake that needs a gun to feel safe” crowd.

[@Peter-c5n5l]

@manfredstrappen7491 well most of the cycling snowflakes I know are willing to protect themselves with firearms, so I don't know where are you from but maybe your a snowflake anti gun democrat

[@ivanboesky1520]

Cervelo quality dropped off a cliff the moment Pon Holdings acquired them. Crack and Fails have been unreliable junk since they ventured into outsourced CF bicycles. Same with Santa Cruz, overpriced, mediocre fab quality CF bikes that often come with issues. Would not touch any of those brands with a 10 foot pole despite how much they pay (bribe) pro teams to ride their overpriced garbage frames. Same with Trek, Giant, Specialized, Canyon, Pinarello, etc. 😀😀

[@charlesholland6851]

What else is there for you to ride?

[@andrewbray2924]

Same question as Charles here. What WOULD you suggest. Easy to make blanket statements

[@tepperpepper1047]

@@andrewbray2924 Steel Schwinn from 1964

[@shirtlessGraveler305]

I must say that my2013 Trek Madone Project 1 , yes, with rim, brakes and Dura ace mechanical. None of my bike is junk. Mind you it does have a BB 90 bottom bracket which don’t have issues with and I have Dura Ace mech 9000 components and there’s no problems at all with this. It’s like a smooth nice power tool. this is the only dedicated road bike I have , 11 speed , zip wheels and there’s no problems with anything. Nothing is broken on the bike , and I’m not putting it online to sell to upgrade to anything else. It works just as fine as it did back in 2013. Word up ⬆️

[@andrewbray2924]

@@shirtlessGraveler305i could not agree more. I have the 2013 madone 4.7 and it’s been amazing