"That's The Bit Of Magic You Can't Tell Me About" | SEASON 19 | Dragons' Den

Victoria Fullarton, the creator of The Toto Sleep Company is seeking a £150,000 investment for 20% of her business for babies. But when she feels unable to disclose the technology used within her product, this puts The Dragons in a difficult situation...
Season 19, Episode 2
An international sensation, Dragon's Den features entrepreneurs pitching for investment in the Den from our Dragons, five venture capitalists willing to invest their own money in exchange for equity.
#DragonsDen #BusinessPitch #BabyProducts

[@08aoc]

Steven: I'd need more than 100% of your company Sara: How about 35% Steven: 😅

[@Mister_MS.PAC-MAN]

Jenny: “I’m not even in this episode, and for that reason, I’m out.”

[@RockyDave]

Yep... Jenny jokes live on.

[@Deimonik1]

Evan: Jenny isn't even in this episode and therefore she is out.

[@foddyfoddy]

Deborah is ridiculous. She was asking for private information which, if this was a private pitch, would almost certainly be covered by a non-disclosure agreement. How can she expect the information to be revealed to potentially millions of people on television?

[@orm3966]

Then don't go on a public televised TV show and expect good faith? In this pitch, we have NO idea how she determines the sleep. For all we know the missing ingredient that no one else has used is the kid's chi or horoscope.

[@ASY2311]

They should know what theyre getting into going on dragons den. If its really that sensitive, dont go on a tv show for investment.

[@rogerledsham8052]

The fact that a patent has been applied for protects the design. If anyone copies it and submits their design for patent approval, they will be behind the first application in the queue and will never gain a patent. If the original design is found not to merit a patent, it's going to be copied anyway. Deborah Meaden made it clear that, because the patent application was in, then there was no risk. Oh - I work on patent applications.

[@maldegaar]

You ever have that social situation where somebody comes into an established group and is so over familiar and personal with their jokes/banter, which aren't funny and just fall flat. That is Steven Bartlett.

[@Black.Sabbath]

Yes 😂

[@dusk_en]

So real

[@ianlister7333]

well this was likely filmed second half of 2021, and the website is still "coming soon", so the prodcut does not seem to have launched. She still updates the Insta, but she has squandered the promotion sales boost Dragon Dens can give you, by coming on early.

[@gaddyfree1085]

Damn

[@ChicDead26]

thank you for the update!

[@marchumphreys3865]

In other words all talk no walk.

[@ianlister7333]

@@ChicDead26 no problem, some are easier than others.

[@ianlister7333]

@@marchumphreys3865 it certainly looks like she has hit some road blocks. She came in with a prototype so that still needed work. Still alot of places where things could go wrong, before product launch.

[@attaxiaffxi7033]

Being vague about the “biometrics” utilised is probably a deceptive tactic. There probably isn’t a large amount of biometric data that can predict sleep taken from a device on the wrist. *time* is probably the best predictor of that, which the device and app could easily utilise without knowing this it could affirm the validity of the producteffectiveness but of course this will make it something of a placebo rather than a device of any real useful purpose.

[@ParanoidAandroid]

It's crazy to invest in such a business, really. A tech startup company led by a non-tech person is a recipe for disaster. I'm sure Sara regrets this decision.

[@TheManInBlueFlames]

With this one, it's about the idea.

[@bartbounce7205]

Agree, no evidence this product works. Pure gamble.

[@decentcomment9447]

Lots of tech start ups are led by non tech people, you need tech people to build the service or platform etc but you don't need them to start the company. The dragons are allowed to back out of deals after this if what the person says doesn't match reality.

[@pattipeters9861]

Is it not childproof? Should it have been that easy to take apart?

[@tanvirhussain8763]

Just in time for my meal😊

[@RockyDave]

Cheese coleslaw. Chips. Shortbread biccies.

[@Fedora_JP]

@@RockyDave no coronation chicken?

[@Farquad76.547]

@@RockyDave weirdest “meal” I’ve ever heard of

[@RockyDave]

@@Farquad76.547 Okay, don't have it.

[@MattLloydTube]

Why is the audio mix often so poor? Narrator in between segments is way too quiet.

[@nx47]

The audio is mixed for television, it’s a different codec than online videos

[@kennedyreid2504]

I would NEVER put such a device on my child EVERY day... noooooooo

[@ianlister7333]

it is a data collection nightmare for parents

[@ghostdemon7936]

Me neither. What a nightmare. Sounds anxiety inducing for parent and child.

[@jimmylittle9393]

Me either...they don't need some random data harvesting company building their profile at that age.

[@ouroborostechnologies696]

sounds like a brain cell issue for you

[@kayb2445]

Jenny: my two strapping lads are all grown up, I won’t be needing such a device, therefore I’m out

[@davidloughlin2238]

Ludicrous, we have 3 kids who are now grown up. We used a combination of diet, exercise and a fixed routine to look after their sleep. This meant that we rarely had a night time problem. To me the problem is that the adults have given over the reins to the kids and the tail is waging the dog!

[@kathlynch100]

dont disagree - but so many parents will buy this even if poorly made

[@ghamandlupin]

Congratulations. That's YOUR kids though. Every child is different remember. Also, you're lying if you told me that worked every night.

[@orm3966]

Old man yells at clouds.

[@tanyal5497]

Why is everyone being so mean to her

[@georgier8872]

I agree. I have always been told if you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all.

[@jasonm4332]

yep lets bring home baby from hospital and strap it into wifi ASAP -time is of the essence !!! -i hope the business fails -I AM SO SICK of red blinking lights and notifications every where we turn and this is too much.

[@BDogs10]

Well the tattooed inventor said ‘this is what the ppl want😂’. I disagree. What for? & I don’t get it

[@jasonm4332]

@@BDogs10 right-and its what ole frankenstein boots wants because you cannot muster up an idea then the whys and hows of a business without being a potential customer for that product/service.

[@edwindsouza8816]

I disagree with SB - why do you need to have in-house development? The investment is with the idea and design - you could take the analysis to any developer who could code it.

[@Sheizerinho]

There’s no way a non-tech person can evaluate whether the tech is good, scalable, being maintained and monitored well, and so forth. Even if you’re somehow lucky enough to find great developers, understanding the risks, scalability issues and costs, and so forth, is almost impossible. So with a lot of luck, maybe you can pull off the first step, but it’s all so risky that it’s bound to fail and almost always does.

[@moogleking]

That was a surprised twist for me

[@TheManInBlueFlames]

If she tells them what makes the business unique, the magic of the product, that is NATURALLY gonna be copied by people watching the show!

[@zachaphina3140]

Shes applied for a patent though

[@orlovsskibet]

Why on earth is it important for them to know what language the code is written in? Besides, she answered perfectly, when she talked about ios and android, since that will dictacte the language. So weird why this became such a topic - drama perhaps?

[@peterd788]

If the apps were developed in a platform specific way the costs of further development are double what they would be otherwise.

[@SiriusMined]

​​@Peter D but the primary development has been done Also, any programming languages portable to pretty much any other, although they're going to be popcorn Pacific things that have to be dealt with, regardless how it's developed.

[@AlmightyDoge665]

Probably. Former entrepreneurs who were on the show say it’s pretty much scripted in the sense that a producer will have them repeat certain things they say in a different way.

[@ianlister7333]

because im guessing Stephen has seen businesses with outside coding before, and knows the downside of that. Steve Baxter on Shark Tank Australia has said much the same thing.

[@ifwecouldvote]

I would have asked who the developers were, and did they have any accolades - e.g. developing good apps that we know of.

[@brussels13207]

If a patent application has been filed then it is protected, she can talk about it. If patent is denied then nobody can patent it. How could she not know this?

[@joewas2225]

If it's pending it's not protected

[@brussels13207]

@@joewas2225 perhaps it is a question of what one means by protected. If application is filed then nobody can file a patent for the same thing. If your application is denied, again, then nobody can get a patent for the same thing. I have 2 patents in my name. Everything I thoughts I knew about the patent process BEFORE I started the actual process, with a patent agent, was WRONG. People come on Dragons Den and say they have a “worldwide patent.” Dragons never jump on people when they say that. A worldwide patent costs about a million dollars AND it costs about the same amount to keep it maintained. Only really big companies do that, typically drug companies, and other very large multinational companies.

[@redrobiin]

If she applies for a patent and it is not granted then they already know the patent secret so it is not protected because it can be used by someone else in a different form. She was right not to reveal it because she doesn't have the patent fully in her name.

[@marthahabba3362]

Stevens arrogance disgust me truly puts me off towards this program. I just so dislike him. Arrogant, rude , no respect for amazing Tucka Sara actually all of them .

[@kingcecil7126]

This is business, it's not romper room.The woman is asking for one hundred and fifty Thousand pounds, If this is too tough for her, she's going to be in trouble in a board room without the cameras

[@10wanderer]

mixed race getting arrogent??

[@Boshek2019]

Sara - does invest in bad businesses Jenny - doesn’t invest in good business ☯️

[@bigscrounger]

Why does tooker have very sudden head movements ??

[@marchumphreys3865]

Crack , cocaine

[@roymunson1503]

He is related to Brundle fly

[@anubusx]

Love that film.

[@longq5198]

Steven: "Not one person in your team can write one line of code." Me: "How about hiring a software engineer?", smh

[@dancewithjlb]

**I am guessing the magic biometric is the activity levels of the baby**

[@natnah2002]

Strangely enough know one cares about the valuation of the business and financials. too risky

[@grahamfairbanks3407]

I want to invest in the tech team not the person marketing the concept who thought up the idea, why does Steve Jobs come to mind?

[@peterd788]

If the patent has been applied for anyone can look at it.

[@brussels13207]

Yes, normally patent applications are public info available on the web.

[@leginnipsjd8963]

You might hate Steven but he is totally right in most of these. Being nice doesn’t make money lol

[@rv9497]

She didn't even negotiate 😢

[@dancewithjlb]

Hardware is expensive and needs deep pockets / multiple rounds. Sara isnt the right person for this if she thinks taking 35% is a good idea.

[@Tako101]

Duncan: I’m oat.

[@disiamtheillusion]

Those bangs immediately say stark raving madness.

[@paladindean1715]

Or bad barber

[@Shyted]

Did any money actually change hands?

[@ghamandlupin]

Surely if this actually works, she'd a trillionaire by the time she'd even got to the den. There simply is *not* a sure fire way of getting your baby to sleep. You can try everything, sometimes it's just pure luck.

[@JoeAyres]

Victoria's Secret!

[@viwesvideos]

just hire a coder, it's not something that is rocket science if you have and own the source anyways. software engineers that can do java or kotlin are not that difficult to find

[@johnhenderson2642]

children will go to sleep whenever i tell them to..

[@thegrumblesquad4949]

state of her,,,,

[@anubusx]

Nice Game Of Thrones reference.

[@stephaniewhite9526]

How can you invest in something the creator wants to keep a secret !

[@sitinrighthere]

Failed parenting product

[@garyryan9431]

The absolute state of her hair, good god 🤦

[@Black.Sabbath]

She's a state

[@Firedancer100]

Ethereum 🚀

[@EvilValenStrife]

I actually like how she looks. Some of y'all are weird and need to go touch grass.

[@BDogs10]

I don’t get it. I thought it was to help baby to sleep but is maybe to measure time asleep? too much directed at the app development but what is it? 😂

[@withgoddess]

The time TO SLEEP.

[@SilverMist0121]

Stevens annoying

[@stuartsmith5308]

Appearance shouldn't matter. Unless it demonstrates a person that makes poor decisions in life.

[@kirbyhatesincels917]

You probably look like a thumb.

[@RockyDave]

Not first.

[@RockyDave]

@@16dya 😍

[@neilarmitage6632]

Why are the dragons looking to entrepreneurs to invest in, don't the dragons have any original business ideas of their own? My guess is the dragons have a bunch of cleaver people behind the screens running their businesses. And making profits

[@Sb-er6bs]

Duh, that's how most high value businesses work.

[@JoyOfThinking]

I mean, their business ideas is how they became wealthy. This show is about people pitching their businesses to them, so of course that's what you'll see on this show. It's not about the dragons' own business ideas.

[@BenjaminGoose]

A bunch of cleaver people? Like butchers?

[@davidmg1925]

The only thing is Im old enough to remember covid 19. I dont think the bbc or youtube should be endorsing self-harming with needles.

[@gmantramp404]

Another attention seeker. Look at my tattoo I'm so unique 😂😂😂

[@sitinrighthere]

Nice wig

[@sanjuansteve]

@5:59 No, when you invest in a tech company you are not necessarily investing in the the talent of the particular developers that wrote the code to date. The idea is key. The developers are replaceable, generally speaking.

[@ally6438]

So wrong

[@bossbitch-2718]

Absolute bint