THATCHER: PEACE & THE EU

→ Margaret Thatcher gave a clear answer - 1-minute video
𝗪𝗛𝗬 𝗧𝗛𝗘 𝗘𝗨𝗥𝗢𝗣𝗘𝗔𝗡 𝗖𝗢𝗠𝗠𝗨𝗡𝗜𝗧𝗬 𝗪𝗔𝗦 𝗖𝗥𝗘𝗔𝗧𝗘𝗗
The European Community, now called the European Union, was started for one reason alone: to create lasting peace and security between its members following the most devastating war the world had ever known.
Don’t take my word for it. This is what UK Prime Minister, Margaret Thatcher, said to the European Parliament on 9 December 1986:
“70 years ago Europe had just experienced, on the battlefields of Verdun and the Somme, the bloodiest fighting, the most tragic waste of a generation, that the world has ever known.
“The Second World War was to bring further heartbreak and destruction.
“Our Community was conceived and constructed to ensure that this experience would never be repeated, to bring about a lasting peace within Western Europe, to replace antagonism with friendship and cooperation, to deepen and broaden Europe’s democratic tradition.”
Mrs Thatcher added:
“And let us never forget that the aftermath of war produced two great ideas which have shaped our destiny ever since.
“One was the NATO Alliance, the other the European Community.”
Throughout her premiership, and previously as an MP and then leader of the Opposition, Mrs Thatcher was a strong supporter of the European Community project.
In particular, she helped to design and promote the EU’s crown jewel: its Single Market, that has transformed and enriched the continent of Europe.
Today, every European country is in the EU’s Single Market or wants to be (except Britain and Belarus).
Recent polling by YouGov indicates that 70% of Britons support a closer relationship with the EU, including joining the Single Market, even if it means allowing free movement of people (which of course it would).
(Source: yougov.co.uk/politics/article...)
Labour and Tories: wake up!
© Report and video by ‪@JonDanzig‬
#Brexit #EU #SecondWorldWar #MargaretThatcher #SingleMarket

[@JonDanzig]

→ Margaret Thatcher gave a clear answer - 1-minute video 𝗪𝗛𝗬 𝗧𝗛𝗘 𝗘𝗨𝗥𝗢𝗣𝗘𝗔𝗡 𝗖𝗢𝗠𝗠𝗨𝗡𝗜𝗧𝗬 𝗪𝗔𝗦 𝗖𝗥𝗘𝗔𝗧𝗘𝗗 The European Community, now called the European Union, was started for one reason alone: to create lasting peace and security between its members following the most devastating war the world had ever known. Don’t take my word for it. This is what UK Prime Minister, Margaret Thatcher, said to the European Parliament on 9 December 1986: “70 years ago Europe had just experienced, on the battlefields of Verdun and the Somme, the bloodiest fighting, the most tragic waste of a generation, that the world has ever known. “The Second World War was to bring further heartbreak and destruction. “Our Community was conceived and constructed to ensure that this experience would never be repeated, to bring about a lasting peace within Western Europe, to replace antagonism with friendship and cooperation, to deepen and broaden Europe’s democratic tradition.” Mrs Thatcher added: “And let us never forget that the aftermath of war produced two great ideas which have shaped our destiny ever since. “One was the NATO Alliance, the other the European Community.” Throughout her premiership, and previously as an MP and then leader of the Opposition, Mrs Thatcher was a strong supporter of the European Community project. In particular, she helped to design and promote the EU’s crown jewel: its Single Market, that has transformed and enriched the continent of Europe. Today, every European country is in the EU’s Single Market or wants to be (except Britain and Belarus). Recent polling by YouGov indicates that 70% of Britons support a closer relationship with the EU, including joining the Single Market, even if it means allowing free movement of people (which of course it would). (Source: yougov.co.uk/politics/articles/47997-britons-support-rejoining-the-single-market-even-if-it-means-free-movement) Labour and Tories: wake up!

[@clickrick]

There were many issues where I would never agree with Margaret Thatcher, but that doesn't mean that I'd never agree with her on everything. On this question, she was spot on. The fact that she went on to negotiate some of the best exemptions and opt-outs that could ever be imagined was a testament to her strength and her ability as a leader. And now we've thrown it all away.

[@louis-philippearnhem6959]

I agree. She was a fierce and stubborn negotiator. The actual generation of Tories made a bloody mess of it since the referendum. But it is over; no more exceptions, opt-outs or exemptions, no cherry-picking. This ship has sailed. The UK is a rule taker now. The UK (GB actually) lost its privileged position by being too greedy. Greetings from Belgium, EU

[@clickrick]

@ChuckY229 very few people ever say that the EU as it stood then, or indeed as it stands now, is in any sense 'perfect', but it's definitely been effective at its primary function, which was always to bring a lasting peace to Europe. Even the most ardent supporters of the EU would admit that its institutions could be streamlined, made more transparent or more efficient, or in numerous other ways improved, and Margaret Thatcher was working towards achieving just that. In several ways she succeeded.

[@Purple_flower09]

​@@louis-philippearnhem6959 your reply seems to me to imply that the UK will one day ask to join the EU. At the moment I'm doubtful that will happen. The journey is too hard and long. I hope I'm wrong about that, but the reality is that at the moment only a minority of people in the UK are seriously interested in trying to join. And most of them don't have any idea what that really means. I don't think greedy is right. Unwilling to put UK sovereignty into a pool with others. I think that was at the crux of it.

[@louis-philippearnhem6959]

@@ChuckY229 I meant greedy in a way of demanding all the advantages but meanwhile showing no commitment or solidarity whatsoever. And concerning net payments: being out the EU is more costly than being in. We all know that now, even for GB. Look at Northern Ireland, they are benefiting because they have the “best of both worlds” according to Sunak.

[@louis-philippearnhem6959]

@@Purple_flower09 Well no hard feelings. Bye and good luck. I will be visiting the Isle of Wight in June and still be able to roam freely on the internet as a EU citizen.

[@happyslappy5203]

36 years before Margaret Thatcher, on May 9, 1950, French Foreign Minister Robert Schuman said in his founding speech: " The goal is to ensure lasting peace on the continent, through the development of production solidarity between France and Germany, making any clash between these two countries impossible." UK wasn't a founding member. UK in the 70s was the "sick man of Europe": skyrocketing inflation, unemployment, strikes, power cuts, poor economic performance.. UK had to borrow $3.9 billion from the IMF, this was then the largest loan ever to have been requested from the IMF. UK begged 3 times for the EC membership in the 60/70s

[@JonDanzig]

For the avoidance of doubt, I welcome divergent views and cherish good debate. But those who come to my KZbin channel (yes, it is my KZbin channel) to post personal or rude attacks, against me or other contributors, or who want to use my channel to post misinformation, will be blocked if I see those comments (unfortunately, it’s impossible for me to read all the comments here, as there are thousands of them, but I do read some of them). I cannot offer a platform to those who don’t know how to debate respectfully, or who want to bombard my Channel with statements purporting to be factual that are patently untrue (i.e. that the EU accounts are never signed off, or that the EU is corrupt or undemocratic, etc). Those posting defamatory allegations that I am lying, without providing any specific and justifiable foundation, will also be removed. (Conversely, if anyone points out a verifiable inaccuracy in my reports, they will be thanked and I will make a correction, but just to make a blanket accusation against me that I am lying is not acceptable and could be actionable.) Further, anyone who comes to my Channel telling me that I must stop what I am doing, move on, give up, etc, will be blocked. Some say that’s undemocratic. But whilst I 100% support democratic governance, I am not a democracy. Nobody voted for me to do what I do, and nobody can tell me to stop. That’s up to me.

[@JonDanzig]

WATCH AND SHARE THE VIDEO On KZbin: kzbin.info/www/bejne/bJewaaaddqhjsLs On my EU ROPE blog: eu-rope.ideasoneurope.eu/2024/04/22/why-the-european-community-was-created/ On Facebook: facebook.com/JonDanzigWrites/posts/1161373294876133 On LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/posts/jondanzig_brexit-eu-secondworldwar-activity-7188431497815621633-QA8H On Instagram: instagram.com/p/C6GI7cEtWKn/ On Twitter: twitter.com/Jon_Danzig/status/1782680086614786506

[@xelakram]

It's such a pity that Conservatives today have forgotten how important earlier Conservatives thought the EU was. Margaret Thatcher, so beloved by so many Conservatives even to this day, have totally forgotten how much importance she placed on friendship and co-operation with our friends and brethren in Europe.

[@davidmarkwort9711]

Vollkommen richtig

[@JupiterThunder]

Quatsch

[@davidmarkwort9711]

@@JupiterThunder und warum?

[@jordansmolka4305]

Tony Benn said of the EU "I know of no other body of men with so much power and so little accountability, outside the former Soviet Union". Mikhail Gorbachev said of the EU that he couldn't understand the desire to recreate the former Soviet Union in western europe.

[@JonDanzig]

But the EU and the Soviet Union have nothing in common. Such comparisons are reckless, childish and nonsensical. It shows no understanding or respect for those people who truly suffered and were horribly murdered in their millions under both the Communist and Nazi regimes. The EU has democracy, human rights and free market trade as the non-negotiable membership requirements for all members. All member states of the EU volunteered to join, and all are free to leave. The USSR was not a democracy, but a one-party state. There were no human rights, or respect for life. There was no free market, but a state controlled one. Member states of the Soviet Union were forced to join, under threat of violence that was often used to bludgeon any member state that didn’t comply. No countries caught up the Soviet sphere of control were free to leave, until the Soviet empire itself collapsed. Far from being a one-party state, the European Union is made up of many governments, and democratically elected MEPS, from right across the political spectrum. The EU is a democracy with free movement of its people, unlike the sealed borders and oppressive one-party state that represented the now defunct Soviet Union. Membership of the EU is open to any European country which respects the inherent values of the EU, as laid down by the Treaty of the European Union (TEU). Anyone who’s lived in a Soviet Union controlled country will immediately recognise the profound differences between USSR values and EU values. Read more at: eu-rope.ideasoneurope.eu/2016/09/25/eu-is-not-ussr/

[@ab-ym3bf]

And? Ever given it any thought that both men could have been wrong, and you only cite them because they for your narrative? Why not quote the many more statesman and women saying the opposite?

[@bosoerjadi2838]

Britain has foolishly changed its destiny of greatness and prosperity for its current destiny of doom and desparity. The voyage will be long and painful, and the best day of the week will always be a week ago.

[@Paul-th3ul]

There is only one Margaret Thatcher.

[@ottosaxo]

She was a politician, and even wanted to be perceived as a power politician. I don't trust her flowery confession. Who knows whether she wrote those lines herself. But can you imagine her to give up a sphere of influence and a source of good reputation without necessity? Well, that's what the Brexit votum actually did. I'm not sure whether David Cameron understood this in time.

[@JonDanzig]

This was hardly a 'confession'. Margaret Thatcher simply reinforced the factual reason why the European Community was created; a reason endorsed and promoted by leaders across Europe and beyond. Or as someone else commented: 'As a teenager in 1938 Margaret Thatcher (née Roberts), together with her elder sister, paid for a German Jewish girl to escape to their home in England from Nazi Germany. As Prime Minister she understood, as her Tory successors apparently did not, the reason for the European Community: enduring peace between former enemies. One of her successors, a "useful idiot" (Russian expression) by untruths and false promises, destroyed what his predecessors worked to create through 10 years of accession negotiations followed by 47 years of membership: a leading role in a European Union of 28 independent nations.'

[@ottosaxo]

@@JonDanzig I'm sorry if I hurt your feelings. But Margaret Thatcher never managed to make me realise her commitment for the European Union, and she never made me discover any warm feelings behind her facade. I was seventeen when she became Prime Minister in 1979, so there would have been plenty of time to do so. I didn't like Helmut Kohl, something we even had in common, but the reasons were obviously different and couldn't create some kind of sympathy for her in return.

[@JonDanzig]

@@ottosaxo This has nothing to do with my feelings, so please don't be patronising! Margaret Thatcher's statement in 1986 was purely factual - that the European Community was created to ensure lasting peace and security between its members following the most devasating world wars emanating on our continent. During the 1975 referendum campaign, Mrs Thatcher passionately batted for the 'Remain' side.

[@williampatrickfagan7590]

Spain could not join while Franco ruled.Spain was not a Democracy then.

[@JonDanzig]

Exactly. Much of Europe was under dictatorial or Communist rule. The EU has helped to transform our continent for the better.

[@LucasMalki]

Untrue. Democratically appointed EU leader (council) as the commission to come up with laws that are then put for a vote at the EU and national parliaments.

[@JonDanzig]

@@ChuckY229 The Commission President is democratically elected by the European Parliament and every Commissioner must be democratically approved in a strict vetting process by MEPs. The Parliament has the democratic power to dismiss the entire Commission at any time. The Commission is the servant of the EU, not its master, and it has NO power to pass any laws. It is, however, charged with ensuring that EU laws are implemented. All EU laws are democratically decided. More in my article at democracy.eu-rope.com I cannot offer you a platform on my KZbin channel to post incorrect information.

[@williampatrickfagan7590]

@@LucasMalki Spain only joined after the death of Franco.

[@williampatrickfagan7590]

@@ChuckY229 All European Union Commissioners are interviewed for their appointment. Then go forward for approval by the Parliament. Unlike the 900 odd unelected members of the HoL.

[@JupiterThunder]

Yeah but her final word on the EU was in her book _Statecraft_ in which she said Britain should leave the EU. She called for a referendum on EU membership. kzbin.info/www/bejne/j4KZlKOgqKeUm6c Stop lying about Thatcher's views.

[@JonDanzig]

I have accurately reported Thatcher's views whilst she was a Member of Parliament and the country's Prime Minister. Later in her life, Margaret Thatcher argued in her book, Statecraft, that Britain should renegotiate its terms of membership OR ELSE leave the EU and join the North American Free Trade Area.

[@karelkieslich6772]

I’m saying this as someone who is very glad we have the EU and I respect your work but the historical account presented here is a myth. As many brilliant historians like Timothy Snyder, Tony Judt and others have pointed out, European community wasn’t created because European countries had learned that war was bad. In fact, most Western European countries kept fighting wars for decades right after WW2 - colonial wars. It was only after they lost these colonial wars and therefore their empires and trading zones, that they decided to join the European community. When you no longer have an empire with its big trading zone, European integration suddenly seems like a good choice. But only then. Notice how Britain only joined when it was clear it couldn’t retain its empire. Same with the Spanish and Portuguese who were the last to keep their colonies and last to join the European community. And the Eastern European states only sharpen the point: they joined almost immediately when they freed themselves from the Russian/Soviet Empire. West or East, Europe was an alternative for an empire, an existential necessity. It is the case that it is a pretty good achievement, by any comparative standard in history; and it is a force for peace. But we should be historically honest about its origins. By telling ourselves the myth that “the wise European nations learned from the war and decided to cooperate with each other”, we fail to understand that Europe wasn’t a choice, it was a necessity. Paradoxically, it is this lack of understanding that helped lead to Brexit. If Europe was a choice, then we can choose differently. But the tragedy of Brexit is that it wasn’t a choice, it was an existential necessity. There wasn’t a moment in modern British history that Britain was just a nation state: it was either an empire or part of the European community. In fact, this is for the first time in modern times that the UK is not part of a large empire and a large trading zone. Brexit wasn’t a conservative move, it is a wild experiment. And we can all see how it’s going. If we understand the history behind the origins of the EU, it helps us see this.

[@karelkieslich6772]

(I’m largely just regurgitating the excellent lectures and books of Timothy Snyder on this, I highly suggest people pay attention to them.)

[@JonDanzig]

@@karelkieslich6772 The EU is not perfect, but I suggest it's greatest achievement has been as a peace project, helping to ensure lasting peace between its members. That is my number one reason for supporting the EU project. The UK lost its Empire, which is why in 1961 Harold Macmillan applied to join the European Community. Now we have lost that Community too, and so for the first time in hundreds of years, Britain is truly alone, sans the Empire, sans the European Union, alone and isolated in a corner of the North Sea. That represents no future for such a great country. I accept and acknowledge you hold a different view. But this is something the country deserves another democratic opportunity to consider. Nobody who voted for Leave in the referendum had any clue what version of Leave we'd get, and the version we've got does not have a democratic mandate. Eventually, sooner or later, this issue should be put back to the electorate.

[@karelkieslich6772]

@@JonDanzig Thanks for the reply but there might be a misunderatanding as I don’t think I hold a different view than you at all. I should say that I am not British, I’m Czech, currently living in the UK while completing my PhD here. And not only because of that, I’m very much against Brexit and very much a supporter of the EU, I think it’s a fascinating achievement, force for peace and democracy, a truly a unique thing in history and the only chance for European people to have a good future. I was just trying to point out the false belief of some people (not only among Brexiteers) that European Union was mostly about preventing wars. Historically it wasn’t, it was an economic alternative for an empire for West European countries who lost their empires and their economies and markets massively shrunk. So they instead created a common market. It’s not a very glamorous historical account of our EU but it’s more correct than the usual myth “France and Germany didn’t want to fight another war so they decided to cooperate.” However, and I can’t stress this enough, the EU has since then evolved into something much more and something quite extraordinary: as far as I know, it’s the only time in history when so many states became part of one market, formed a political union and began collaborating with another through completely peaceful means. And its success is proven by the fact that still so many countries aspire to join. It’s a beacon of democracy a model for the rule of law, as my Ukrainian or Georgian friends know all too well. But I think it’s important to get the history right. And British people falsely believed they can “return to being a nation state” by Brexit. But they never were a nation state: they were an empire and immediately when they ceased to be an empire they joined the EU. One of the reasons why so many Europeans believe(d) that they could do a Brexit, Frexit, Netherexit or Czexit and just be a nation stat is that they forgot they went into the EU not as nation states but as states who had just lost their empires. Since they will fortunately never regain their empires, then if they leave the EU, they will be on their own, for the first time in history. And it won’t work, as the experience of Britain is sadly showing. Thatcher was trying to sell the idea of Europe through this historically inaccurate portrayal and we Europeans keep telling us the same story. I understand why we are saying it. But it’s wrong and us getting it wrong has important consequences. Many people in my country, Czechia, believe we could also leave the EU and be a nation state. But they forgot that the last time we became a (more or less) independent nation state, Czechoslovakia in 1918, we didn’t survive for more than 20 years! In fact, none of the countries in central and eastern Europe that were created from the Austrian, Russian and Ottoman empires after WW1 survied as independent for more than 20 years. In 1938 we were all swallowed by the German Empire or became German puppets, and then in 1948 we were almost all swallowed by the Soviet Empire. In Europe, you don’t get to be on your own. Our alternatives are either some empire (currently Russian or Chinese) or Europe, nothing else. Just look at the countries left alone like Ukraine, Serbia or Georgia, it’s the same story. It’s either empire or the EU. We obviously should choose the EU. So my view is that the EU is the best guarantor of democracy and actuall also of independence that we in Europe have. And I fear that Britain’s democracy will decline without the EU. I hope it’s clearer now that I don’t disagree with you at all?

[@JupiterThunder]

@@JonDanzig The electorate has had its say - we voted to leave. Come back in 50 years' time, that's the period between referendums on this issue.

[@JonDanzig]

@@JupiterThunder So you don't believe in democracy? There is nothing in statue, or precedence, that we have to wait 50 years for a new vote following a plebescite that was advisory only. Remember that after the first referendum in 1975, which Brexiters lost, there was a new democratic opportunity to vote the UK out of the European Community just 8 years later. It's now almost 8 years since the 2016 referendum.

[@charrogate]

"One was the NATO alliance, the other the European Community." One gone When will the next 🗳️ referendum take place❔🤔

[@Paul-th3ul]

The E U has not gone

[@charrogate]

@@Paul-th3ul 🇪🇺Gone with in relation to 🇬🇧 Britain's active involvement. Apologies for not making this clear.

[@Hubris030]

Europe's democratic tradition??

[@MrGieltedze]

you cannot live with us in other countries to have a vote or a say. So no democracy to you. You are so superior.

[@JupiterThunder]

" [Joining the EEC in 1972] was a coup d'état by the political class who didn't believe in popular sovereignty. That's what it was - it was a coup d'état. Power was seized by parliamentarians. They seized power that did not belong to them, and they abused it to take away the rights of those they represented." -- Tony Benn

[@JonDanzig]

We joined the EEC in 1973, not 1972. The democratic mandate was given by voters when they elected the Tories into power in 1970 on a manfesto promise to apply to join. The terms of joining were then fully debated and democratically agreed by a vote of Parliament. The voting public confirmed the decision two years later in a landslide win for 'remain' in the referendum of 1975. After the result, Tony Benn said, "When the British people speak, everyone, including members of Parliament, should tremble before their decision and that's certainly the spirit with which I accept the result of the referendum." Nonethelss, 8 years later Tony Benn once again campaigned for the UK to leave the EEC, in the general election of 1983. Labour lost that by a landslide, and Tony Benn lost his Bristol seat. To claim that the UK's membership of the EEC/EU was undemocratic is complete bunkum. Eight years after the second referendum, I hope the British public will be given a new opportunity to reconsider whether leaving the EU was a good idea. Brexit might well win again, but at least democracy would be served.

[@JupiterThunder]

@@JonDanzigThe political corruption itself, the theft of sovereignty from the people, took place in 1972. At the 1970 election the people were told that the 3 establishment parties only sought the right to negotiate, and that there would be another vote, specifically about joining. That did not happen, and the UK joined without any public mandate. At the 1974 election the 3 establishment parties told the people that EEC membership was a fait accompli, and that it was too late to do anything about it. Thus by joining exactly midway between two general elections the public were denied any say on the matter, and robbed of their birthright and sovereignty.

[@JonDanzig]

@@JupiterThunder Thank you for your comment. You wrote, "At the 1970 election the people were told that the 3 establishment parties only sought the right to negotiate, and that there would be another vote, specifically about joining." Can you please provide a verifiable source for that claim? I have published an article about the 1970 general election at: eu-rope.ideasoneurope.eu/2020/07/13/in-britain-general-elections/

[@JonDanzig]

@@ChuckY229 How was it a trick? In 1970 nobody knew that the date of the next general election would be 1974. In any event, in 1975, the country was given a referendum on the issue. Where was the trick?

[@kimwit1307]

Make all brexiteers watch this.

[@JonDanzig]

@@ChuckY229 Where is your evidence that Mrs Thatcher "vehemently opposed Britain's membership of the EU by 1990?" Her book Statecraft was not published until 12 years later in 2002, when she proposed that Britain should renogiate its membership of the EU. Throughout her Premiership there is no evidence that Mrs Thatcher wanted us to leave the EU. Watch this video for evidence: kzbin.info/www/bejne/fpW1Zq1naKyCl9ksi=aZqE6JCVHflitJPN Please provide your evidence that Mrs Thatcher vehemently opposed our membershp of the EU in 1990. If you cannot provide evidence, you need to remove your allegation, or be removed from this channel.

[@kimwit1307]

@@JonDanzig evidence from a brexiteer? that would be a rare event in my experience...

[@JonDanzig]

@@kimwit1307 Always worth asking, because the lack of an answer is gold...

[@genghisthegreat2034]

She forgot that mere equality was on offer; that felt like oppression.

[@nigelvaughan429]

Yes and both are failing miserably

[@bobcosmic]

The lavatories dragged the U.K. in & years later the people voted to come out

[@JB_inks]

Stupid people

[@tommygunn1887]

and now the UK is a lavatory.

[@verystripeyzebra]

Did they? In the flawed cheating referendum. But 52% voted for parties offering a second referendum or cancelling art 50 in the 2019 election. What is the will of the people? Any chance of a confirmatory referendum, like we got in 1975.

[@trident6547]

Uk tried three times and was vetoed twice by dr Gaulle the president of France. Doesn´t seem it was "dragged" in. The fact is that UK was falling behind its peers on the continent and had no choice other than to try to join.