Is Japanese Pitch Accent Worth Learning?

[@ThatJapaneseManYuta]

Learn Japanese with me -> bit.ly/34XumLE

[@Fun-rf9vs]

Yes

[@e.v6134]

Ty

[@Kestrel16C]

So you followed the Matt vs. George debate?

[@ayo__ayo]

Pretty soon, I'll be enrolling in JASWDC school for beginner Japanese, so I'll be coupling the lessons I learn there, with your lessons.

[@kki2747]

ゆうたさんはピッチアクセントは日本人レベルなのですが、発音が変なのが残念です。

[@IcecreamCat23]

Another common pitch difference that I feel is iconic is 雨　あめ ame (high-low) rain 飴　あめ ame (low-high) candy I remember this because for rain, the rain is coming down-the pitch comes down. For candy, kids jump up after lots of candy-the pitch rises

[@itzmimismd]

LMAO THAT SONG candyrain

[@nicbentulan]

But there's a differing kanji already. What about same kanji, same hiragana (and say no katakana) and same romaji. Can pitch be different?

[@IcecreamCat23]

@@nicbentulan probably not. Most likely context fills in that gap. Like the English word Bat and Bat. Spelled same and sound the same, it’s simply context. But I’m still new to Japanese, so…. Don’t take my word for it

[@nicbentulan]

@@IcecreamCat23 but bat and bat don't have like a different 'kanji' or pronunciation...?

[@seneca983]

@@nicbentulan I don't know if this is what you were thinking of but pitch can differ between dialects. E.g. the word for dog (inu) has a different pitch in standard Japanese and Kansai dialect but there is no way to indicate that in kana or kanji or romaji.

[@mayawitters]

Yuta's communication: 10% sound 90% hands

[@Synthwavu]

More viable than h3h3’s eyebrows

[@dee_hfgblank1617]

99% of japanese people use their hands when talking for emphasis

[@ripsterbook8985]

perfect

[@MegaPixlz]

👋🤲👌🖐🤌🤞👊🙌👐👏

[@mattypunkcake]

As an Italian, I didn’t even notice XD

[@animeisliterature]

Cool, now I am walking around the house saying "he-N-TA-I" lots of times in front of my family. Thank you very much.

[@Tdp4man123]

LMAOO

[@tykep1009]

If you add some more vocabulary like "CH-i-n-ko" and "U-n-ko," you become a perfect Japanese brat ;-)

[@default632]

@@tykep1009 Pitch accent works on mora bro, not consonants.

[@mr.hashundredsofprivatepla3711]

fyi: i think this actually has an extremely fucked up meaning

[@snflwrbrain5723]

Thanks to that Japanese man Yuta

[@ゾラデク]

"It actually just means 'pervert' and doesn't mean that thing you watch on a daily basis." LMAO

[@goishikaiganmademou]

Well, the Japanese actually did the same thing the other way around. They changed the meaning of the English words "bitch" and "s*x" to this: "bicchi"="slut"; "sekkusu"="a f*ck".

[@American_2]

@@goishikaiganmademou bicchi no tomodachi sekkusu

[@muhfadhli7887]

@@goishikaiganmademou u missed opportunity to say h spelling as sex or lewd eg franku ecchi shiyouze

[@josiahfugal5407]

I was the 69th like. Nice.

[@thememe986]

@@muhfadhli7887 ecchi shiooo

[@Robinz566]

If you say “no”, Dogen will come after you.

[@NeoNeko99]

And Misa, and Matt. There'll be a ruckus!

[@LilyUnicorn]

Depends on dialects. Many japanese dialects dont have tones/pitch accents and some do. Even so japanese can still understand you based on context alone.

[@darkfire_0579]

の

[@iusethisplatform]

@@darkfire_0579 ンオ

[@christopherluke9658]

@@LilyUnicorn did you even watch THIS video?

[@IKEMENOsakaman]

The accents of Hashi (bridge) and Hashi (chopsticks) are opposites of each other in Tokyo and Osaka 😂😂😂

[@Applepear733]

Yes!! My Tokyo-raised mom and her Osakan friend had some conversational confusion because of this!! 🤣🤣

[@DaftMANIA]

端においてある箸の橋に和紙の鷲がいる。

[@jackmcslay]

@@Applepear733 what? They don't use bridges to eat their food?

[@ADeeSHUPA]

@@jackmcslay uP

[@saulgoodman4451]

Stop my brain hurts

[@ay5636]

I love how Yuta incorporates his email list in every video without it being annoying. Good job And amazing video as always!

[@BohdanMelnychuk]

All this channel is basically a collection of ads of his list

[@KarolYuuki]

In every video I'm always waiting to see how he will introduce his email list

[@hgbtheman]

@@KarolYuuki facts lol

[@FlorianBaumann]

You don't need to subscribe to every email list, just to the email lists you need to subscribe to...

[@SuperLol]

smoothest plug in ever

[@sameash3153]

12:22 "if you want to be a voice actor [...] you need to perfect your Japanese" This is actually an instance where stress accent in English can change the context of a word. Yuta here said "PERfect", which is how the word is used as an adjective, but as a verb, it is pronounced "perFECT". In English, we have many words like this, which change their stress patterns depending on their part of speech. "COMbat" is a noun, "comBAT" is a verb. Of course, we clearly understood what he meant and said. So it should just show that even if your accent isn't perfect, you can still be understood. I however point this out because it is such a subtle feature of English that so few people know, but native speakers should know it intuitively, and they might be able to make an analogy between these types of accent shifts (PERfect vs perFECT) with different pitch patterns.

[@bokumo7063]

There's the classic example from the movie 'The Conversation': "He'd kill us if he got the chance." "He'd kill US if he got the chance." Inflecting "us" carries a massive amount of new meaning.

[@cameronschyuder9034]

Pretty ironic considering the topic of this video lol

[@beetheimmortal]

To be fair, stuff like this is really hard if you're not a native speaker/started to learn a language at a very young age. I'm really thanful that my parents thought it worth their time and money to take me to English lessons when I was just 3-4 years old.

[@brodericksiz625]

Italian has this too. In fact, some words that are written the exact same have completely different meaning depending on stress (the classic example: "PRINcipi" means "princes", while "prinCIpi" means "principles"). Some languages, however, always put the stress on the same syllable, so they don't have that (French has weak stress on the last voiced syllable 100% of the time, and Icelandic has strong stress on the first syllable pretty much always).

[@sameash3153]

@@bokumo7063 That's not really the same thing. That's true in any language. The word you put the most emphasis on carries more focus in the sentence, even if the language has other means of doing that like case endings and word order. Obviously the ear hears the most emphatic word over the others. What I'm talking about is that there are a handful of words in English that change parts of speech depending on accent. So COMbat is a noun, comBAT is a verb; CONflict is a noun, conFLICT is a verb; IMport is a noun, imPORT is a verb, etc. One of the reasons for this is that as verbs these words have the option of taking additional endings, such as ing or ed. So, EXploit as a noun, exPLOITs as a verb, exPLOITing as a verbal adjective, and exPLOITed as a past tense verbal adjective.

[@Njox]

Dogen hiding around the corner, gun in hand.

[@saulgoodman4451]

And Matt with the katana

[@Aditya-te7oo]

Nix and Wyatt The Gryffindor 😂😂🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@citizencalmar]

Yeah, I find it really frustrating that when I studied Japanese in college, there was not even a token attempt to teach us that Japanese is a pitch-based language. I've long been vaguely aware that it is, but to this day I can never remember which "hashi" is which, or which "sake" means "alcohol" and which means "salmon". It seems like such a basic part of the language that in a classroom setting, a teacher should tell you you're mispronouncing the word if you get the pitches wrong. But they didn't teach it to us that way, so I know a lot of Japanese words, but I don't know the correct pitches for any of them.

[@Soni-jd4li]

I suppose conversing with other people in Japanese may allow you to gain a rough idea on which pitches to use when pronouncing words; I do agree that your teacher should’ve done that since not even giving an eye to pitch pronunciation seems very inconvenient and impractical for actual speaking.

[@douglassmalone-omeally1683]

Same here for my Japanese classes in college. I mean, they focus 100% on tone in Chinese classes and then 0% on pitch in Japanese classes - and for me the Japanese pitch stuff is easier to make sense of actually, maybe a bit more subtle. It seems that because it isn't 100% necessary it gets 100% dropped which feels like a betrayal in retrospect. I noticed that some Japanese language partners learn stress patterns in English and some don't, and the ones who do speak way more naturally. I don't like the baby treatment that Yuta mentioned. However, I literally got into arguments with some Japanese people about whether Japanese even has pitch, which always ended when I provided undeniable examples of incorrect pitch vs correct pitch. It seems to be invisible to most native speakers.

[@zitloeng8713]

​@@douglassmalone-omeally1683 its normal that most native speakers cant realize the linguistic features without actually learning it, because these are simply intrinsic properties internalized during the language acquisition.

[@MyLittleGreenHairdedMermaid]

Sadly college and school focus writing and reading over actually speaking

[@Sora-el-manco]

@@MyLittleGreenHairdedMermaid and here's why I can't actually speak english irl

[@nullifiedou]

I remember Yuta's email list promo just as well as I've memorized the pledge of allegiance

[@AFordFlex2377]

Legend!

[@raghuvenkatesan6792]

@何 are you even american?

[@muhfadhli7887]

@何 I got one class where we must remember constitution per verse iirc e pluribus unum in fgo (eg numero uno in ad) and wiki got a bit of subtlety but a similar to id branch bhinneka tunggal(high register gangsal etc iirc) ika and an agendas regarding five principles taken as base instead of derived from theos

[@nailiksoaloazi3515]

The spanish part was hilarious, I'm sorry for everyone who didn't understand it, you missed a good laugh He basically said: I speak to meet hot gir... nice people and to make friends.

[@michaels3003]

Gracias.

[@lewa.8436]

actually he didn't meant hot girls, he meant pretty girls

[@siratshi455]

@@lewa.8436 actually he meant beautiful girls or rather lovely

[@lewa.8436]

@@siratshi455 nope, the direct translation of 'guapas' it's pretty, for beautiful it would be hermosas and lovely would be preciosas

[@silverlily6944]

He meant to say chicas guapas, good looking girls ( guapa, singular means seducing looking, "hot" or gorgeous)

[@marker52]

I love this pitch accent arc every educational Japanese channel is going through right now.

[@cassiebelmont993]

Yeah, I'm glad to not be the only person who noticed this as a trend.

[@harshmnr]

I think I've only seen it with Dogen and Yuta..what other channels have been doing it? (Just curious.) ~:~

[@marker52]

@@harshmnr Oh, you've been missing out lol. Matt vs Japan, Japanese from Zero, Japanese Ammo with Misa, and Steve Kaufmann have all covered it within the past month or so(except Misa ig). Also, Matt vs Japan had a huge debate with JFZ about pitch accent spanning several hours of content.

[@harshmnr]

@@marker52 Oh huh. Well I don't think I've watched many videos from those channels anyway so I guess that's why they're not in my recommended. But that's cool. ~:~

[@kristofferwarnberg5885]

The drama!

[@xander2011]

Lo bueno de ser hispano parlante es que el japones tiene los mismos 5 sonidos vocalicos que en español. A good thing of being a Spanish speaker is that Japanese has the same 5 vowel sounds as Spanish.

[@raku4338]

Lo hace más facil (・∀・)b

[@masatami]

しかし「う」の音は少し違いますね。発音すると口が丸くならない気がして…

[@iancardenas-spanishbutcomp4074]

Nocierto :v Ellos no usan la u, sino la ɯ That's in fact wrong :v They don't use the u , rather the ɯ

[@hectorv7608]

@@iancardenas-spanishbutcomp4074 ?

[@SEGARetroBR]

Same thing for Portuguese!

[@karenbastos6754]

"Yo hablo para conocer chicas guap- gente buena y hacer amigos" JAJAJAJAJ I LOVED IT

[@muttlanguages3912]

Oh, gente, I thought he said hentai, which was way worse!

[@TioDeive]

LOL!!!!!

[@karenbastos6754]

@@muttlanguages3912 XD

[@sdlion7287]

Oh another じゃじゃじゃじゃ speaking dude, I see you are a person of culture

[@kgpz100]

Ojalá fuera homosexual Yuta 😭😭

[@binbon8100]

Hello! I'm about to be 14 this month and I'm trying to learn Japanese to go to Japan because my family and I don't wanna be those type of people that will ask locals if they speak English, also because we don't to be in Tokyo all the time, we want to explore the country, and learn more about it! I'm fluent in English and Spanish and I'm going to take French classes in 9th grade (which is a month away). Your channel has helped me a lot and thank you for giving us a chance to learn Japanese!

[@kyokoyumi]

The reason people say pitch accent isn't important for non-native speakers is because most Japanese people won't correct the foreigner. Thus for foreigners, pitch accent isn't considered as important as proper grammar/syntax. It has also been said that it's not as important for communication unless you want to speak like a native speaker (Dogen). I argue in favour of pitch-accent being important to just learning. It helps to incorporate it early instead of having to basically relearn everything you've learned just to learn the pitch-accent for it. Learning everything at once will take time but it'll make it easier in the end because you have all the tools you need already to speak like a native speaker even if you don't want to in the first place (which is weird to me because if you're learning a language why wouldn't you want to sound as native as possible?).

[@悪魔城下町]

If you're learning Japanese primarily to read a lot of books, watch a lot of films and anime, and listen to a lot of Japanese music, then sounding as native as possible is not the highest priority. I don't think that's weird. Everyone has different reasons for studying a langauge (and also, lots of people like learning a language but dislike speaking it or dislike people lol).

[@xolang]

To (indirectly) answer your question: I reached a native-like level in a foreign language (let's call it X) and yet at some point I found myself actually trying to sound less native because I want others to recognize me being not X. This may sound weird to some people, but I simply don't want people to think I'm X.

[@kKizz]

@@xolang I totally get that. I never reached the native level for my X but it was enough that people didn't notice it and it wasn't good for me in the situation I was in, or often find myself in. :/ After that realization, I stopped trying to sound like a native. I've come to a conclusion that, for me, my identity as Z(my nationality) is gonna be Z. I have no reasons to change it and the language Z will influence how I speak no matter what language I speak so might as well roll with it. And it's actually great because people tend to be more forgiving when it's noticeable you're not 'that fluent'. lol

[@michaels3003]

I totally agree about learning "decent" pronunciation of any language. I don't believe that incorrect speech patterns can be simply unlearned a few years later.

[@mattiamele3015]

I strongly disagree. You need to understand most learners have first to learn the correct pronunciation of Japanese sounds (vowels and consonants), then get around with the notion of morae (distinguishing between short and long vowels, and pronouncing geminate consonants as they are supposed to be pronounced, also giving ん the right tempo, and learning how to pronounce it at the end of an utterance - without release - and before vowels, y, w). Only when all this has been mastered maybe it will make sense to introduce the notion of pitch accent, but anyway regular exposure to spoken Japanese makes it easy to acquire a decent intonation even without consciously making an effort. The way Yuta explains it is totally deceptive. In his view, you will sound like speaking katakana-eigo if you don’t use pitch accent correctly, whereas if you want your Japanese to sound as decent as his English you need to learn pitch accent. That is so messed up. Actually, his whole prosody when speaking English is quite robotic and clearly foreign, so he didn’t learn the English equivalent of pitch accent, so to speak. And yet, he sounds clear and good enough for a foreigner. What he did, on the other hand, was polishing his pronounciation of vowels and consonants, and learn how to stick them together in words and sentences. Which is the way it should be, that’s the basic step. Also take into account pitch accent varies from one region to another, and some Japanese dialects don’t have a pitch accent at all.

[@Yemto]

I have lived in Sweden my whole life (32 years), and it wasn't until I started to learn Japanese I learned that Swedish used pinch accents. But even then I find it very difficult to intentionally change pitch. So as of right now, I just hope it comes with time from hearing Japanese.

[@danielantony1882]

Forsake dubs, embrace the subs :3

[@jcxkzhgco3050]

When it’s part of your language, you may not always notice it

[@seneca983]

Had you ever noticed that "finlandsvensk" doesn't have a pitch accent?

[@Kestrel16C]

@@danielantony1882 Watching with subs won't really benefit language learning until you can already follow most of what is said. Otherwise your brain will just auto-focus on subs and not put enough attention to the language itself. Watch raw or with japanese subs.

[@danielantony1882]

@@Kestrel16C I don't think English Subs are an Issue unless you have a serious sub-reading instinct and are easy to distract.

[@SeraYagami]

Yuta-sensei, can you please teach pitch accents in sentences? Because everyone only teaches it for one word, which is not how we converse. Even if it's a few example sentences, it would be great 🙏

[@rryase]

Saved me a watch

[@prezentoappr1171]

pitch accent works in word for sentences its called intonation for prominence its emphasizing a word from the other words in one sentences dogen didnt mentioned intonation but prominence had already been mentioned preface to japanese linguistics book is good but only a passage maybe other jp learning forum?

[@SeraYagami]

@@prezentoappr1171 I know you've written something really useful but can you please punctuate your sentences? It's really hard to read and understand as a non-native.

[@prezentoappr1171]

@@SeraYagami smh my android sent message is deleted: tldr then idont have time for know: pitch accent intonation prominence. resources: OJAD JMBREENDICT websit or aedict3, wadoku(.)de, wiktio-nary, dogen vid, apple's built in dict.

[@SeraYagami]

@@prezentoappr1171 Thank you so much for your time and the resources! And yes, Dogen's videos are very useful to me as well.

[@kronkthemystic6144]

“The thing you watch on a daily basis” Damn, he got me good.

[@cirei4682]

I feel called out

[@gruu]

Here's my 2 cents: If you pay attention, 80% of pitch accent will come automatically without you knowing it when you just listen & imitate japanese while studying. If you want to sound like a native, you should definitely study it, but not until you're ready for it. I didn't start pitch accent until I was pretty much speaking near fluent and brought my grammar and speaking skills up to par. Cause only that alone is grueling, just getting out there and talking to people/making mistakes/not getting understood and studying Vocabulary & Kanji IS grueling enough. Pitch accent is important yes, but not until you're ready for it cause you'll overburden yourself. Get ALL the basics down first: Grammar, vocabulary & speaking skills, THEN start studying pitch accent.

[@celinegatzias1118]

Yes, I noticed that I've naturally picked up pitch accent too (maybe like 75% of the time it's correct, without formally studying pitch accent). I'm N2 level; learnt though exposure and imitation. Interesting stuff!

[@Bee19207]

Yeah, similar to Chinese it comes naturally

[@prezentoappr1171]

@darkwing dook descriptivistic linguist vsauce im gonna side with the linguist here

[@日本ジョリーン]

Well said! Couldn't agree more.

[@Luis-fd2bi]

Yep. And a good proof that pitch accent comes naturally are words like perfect, that even in English, have different pitches to know the word we’re talking about. “PERfect” is the adjective while “perFECT” is the verb. It comes naturally to English speakers and learners, as this is basically never mentioned when studying the language, yet most people say it like that subconsciously.

[@Teukka72]

As to pitch accent, you can train yourself to listen for it. My native tounge, Finnish, is another high-context language, where the meaning of a word or sentence changes depending on context. Like Ismo's comedy routine, where he presents the Swiss army knife of the Finnish language, "no niin". Even though there is no standard pitch accent, the melody of the word depending on context in the routine changes... kzbin.info/www/bejne/b3a6fp95qtiroLM How many can you figure out? (Turn CC on). That Finnish expression is actually how my interest in the Japanese language got started, because I just couldn't seem to stop twitching every time I heard "Nani" in an anime... Also, I've seen a Japanese KZbinr in Finland, Gen Takagi, have a lot of fun with the expression XD. Another classic is the sentence "kuusi palaa", which can have 9 different meanings depending on context, and that *without* pitch accents. Just google "finnish lesson 1 kuusi palaa". Being attentive to context and pitch accent or "sentence melody" is a good thing in other languages than Japanese and Finnish as well, there are a lot of clues you can get by being attentive to those. Though anime dubs tend to become ruined, because the dub sounds so "flat" in melody compared to the original Japanse...

[@seneca983]

That's just intonation which occurs in basically any language. An actual pitch accent denotes lexical information which is different (but of course Japanese and other pitch accent languages generally also have intonational pitch).

[@Teukka72]

@@seneca983 I know. But learning to recognize and identify intonation patterns also helps with ones pitch accent recognition and identification, and vice versa. Like, I know Ismo uses intonation in his skit to convey emotional context, the difference to Japanese and other pitch accent languagess is that it conveys lexical information. And recognizing both in *any* language is a good skill to have under your belt, IMHO.

[@Osprey1994]

I would say yes, I don't know a lot of Japanese but even I can notice the difference now that I spend more time analyzing how things are said. It also helps me enjoy humor that I might not have understood before.

[@countcain]

When I learned Japanese at a German uni from a Japanese teacher, she was always very keen on teaching us the correct pitch accent. I am really grateful she was like that because now I feel more confident in actually speaking Japanese. That might be because of my perfectionism but the German language also works via pitch accent. For example umFAHREN means to drive around something, but UMfahren means to drive straight over/through something without remorse.

[@coratisongames]

My native language is german and I had no idea lol Just shows that natives don't even know these things most of the time

[@jackmcslay]

@@coratisongames This is the type of thing that's learned instinctively so most native speakers don't even realize it unless it's a language where the writing makes pitch clear through diacritics and such.

[@Om-iq1oh]

I think German, just like English, has stressed syllables, louder or longer, which you showed well with the caps, rather than pitch accents, as is the case with Japanese where most syllables are the same length and take on a melodious approach. But linking the two definitly helps with learning either language, French for example doesn't have much stressed syllables, so it can be difficult to hear pitches and stresses in other languages when your native language is French (from France at least) !

[@cephalosjr.1835]

German, and all the other Germanic languages, have strong stress, not a pitch accent.

[@Om-iq1oh]

@@cephalosjr.1835 Just learnt that Swedish has pitch accents although it is a Germanic language ! The more you know :)

[@AConnorDN38416]

4:30 one of my biggest frustrations with the one semester I took of Japanese at my university was that the teacher was very much against using any words or grammar that were not covered in the class. This was particularly annoying since the pace of the class was really slow compared to the pace I was learning Japanese during my self-study before signing up for the class. Fortunately, the teachers at my Japanese University during my study abroad were perfectly happy with me going above and beyond the content of the class so long as I at least included what we had learned in my assignments. On the subject of pitch accent, the teacher for my grammar class did a short lesson on pitch accent one time and I simply could not hear the difference between the different pitch patterns at the time, so that one lesson just made me want nothing to do with it since it seemed so nuanced and difficult. I think the biggest problem with pitch accent is that most people don't know how to present it in a way that won't scare off students. After spending a little time learning the basic pitch patterns and using tools recommended by Dougen and Matt vs. Japan to train my ability to recognize the different patterns when I hear them, I don't find pitch accent itself to be terribly difficult to learn, although learning all of the various advanced rules is a different story.

[@seherling207]

My classes are the same. Most of us have incredibly limited vocabulary and the exercises also use the most basic vocabulary. Depends on the teacher but when we use something not covered we sometimes get points taken too which is very frustrating Edit: one prof mentioned pitch accent briefly then told is we will Pick up a good one when we listen to a lot of Japanese and done with the conversation lol

[@bioniclegoblin6495]

Do you reckon it would've helped if the teacher had said something along the lines of "you won't get it immediately, but that's okay. For now, just be aware of its existence. You'll get used to it in time"?

[@andrewdiedrich3097]

I'm now sitting in my room saying "uh huh" with different inflections while my family no doubt questions my sanity.

[@inendlesspain4724]

I have a friend who had that experience but while practicing the tones of chinese.

[@Flamerate1]

Getting over this awkwardness is the sign of becoming a linguist.

[@joshuasamuel2122]

Wow! This was the most reasonable argument/discussion on the topic that I have heard! You pretty much agree exactly with Matt vs Japan on this one.

[@koreanfromzero]

I agree. It was very reasonable.

[@Adonisrose7493]

For years, my favorite part of Yuta’s videos has been how he promotes his email group. Normally for most people it’d be annoying, but I find it funny how he can twist and turn the topic and find a way to fit his lessons in. I’m being genuine, it’s a good tactic and he does it well.

[@TwistedTeaFate]

Learning pitch accent in Japanese kinda reminds me of learning a regional Spanish accent/dialect. Doing either one isn't extremely important for second language speakers, but they help a ton with making you sound like a native speaker.

[@shimewaza]

Your opinion is very close to what Matt Vs Japan suggests. Would be interesting if you do a collab with him or Dogen and discuss these topics. By the way, as you may know, the person you were referring to (George Trombley, creator of the Japanese From Zero textbooks) partially changed his opinion after debating Matt Vs Japan. He no longer thinks pitch accent is stupid and intends to study it himself.

[@koreanfromzero]

True. It's interesting. I am reading a book on it now.

[@shimewaza]

@@koreanfromzero It's the man himself! I really enjoy your videos. Recently I rediscovered your "Adventures in Asia" channel and binged a bunch of videos. The one in Osaka hit me hard because Osaka is like my second home but it's been several years since I've been there.

[@zalba5710]

A friend from Osaka of mine said that the problem with pitch accent is that the pitches are different depending on the dialect and often completely opposite

[@BigGulpsV2]

Nice to see a native Japanese speaker/youtuber/teacher make a video on this topic after the recent debate's between Matt, George, and Dogen!

[@IustinPop]

I thought this is simply about language, but it was a nice discussion about the phylosophy of learning a new language. Thanks!

[@justincain2702]

I'm so glad you made this video. It basically summed up my position better than I ever could.

[@capinkyky]

I'm always floored by just how intelligent you are. You really have an awesome way of communicating ideas and it makes you a really informative and interesting teacher! Thank you for the content(:

[@Vidchemy]

The community college Japanese class did not mention pitch accents. Fortunately, the books & websites I use for self-study do. Regarding pitch accents, I had purchased a vegan food item in a Chinese supermarket. My Taiwanese boss didn't understand my pronunciation of the food's name, so I repeated the name, changing pitch on different syllables, until he recognized the word. It made me appreciate the importance of pitch.

[@vladys5238]

however, in chinese it makes a much greater difference than in japanese

[@HenamiDoll]

The thumbnail 🤔

[@worldoffiction4882]

Expected to learn about Pitch Accent Got a music class instead, now that's multi-tasking Thanks for another informative video!

[@jcxkzhgco3050]

Plot twist: All videos that Yuta makes now are just long ads for his Japanese course

Astronaut pointing a gun at another astronaut: they always have been.

[@muhfadhli7887]

@ assasination classroom vibe mix AIUEO john madden

[@Celso.Delgado]

As a native Spanish speaker, I feel like I'll have an easier time with this because our language also uses accents, we even mark it in some words, so hopefully I'll learn Japanese pitch accent intuitively. No sabía que Yuta hablaba Español! -Para conocer chicas guapas- Para hacer amigos eh? Ya veo... 😂

[@kyle6344]

You perfectly captured a lot of my thoughts on pitch accent during the recent KZbin debates! All of the illogical arguments people make, like different dialects, Japanese people don't talk about it, Japanese people never correct you... Hopefully it helps convince people when it's coming from a native Japanese speaker. Great job!

[@Guy-cb1oh]

What's so illogical about them? If the Japanese themselves don't care about it and are all over the place with it themselves why should we care? There are plenty of Native Japanese teachers of Japanese who say it's worthless for foreigners to learn, Yuta is not the final word concerning the topic. It's also ironic how Yuta with a THICK accent in English is lecturing us on the importance of have near perfect accent-less speech in order to be good at Japanese.

[@sirincognito1250]

Hey Yuta, how would you rate the pitch accent of google translate?

[@minamicole2943]

Idk if this helps but I tried a few different words and Atleast when it’s in Kanji the pitch accent works

[@joshuawood1082]

Instead of using google translate, a good site to use is ‘prosody tutor Suzuki’ which allows you to input Japanese, and it will output the pitch contour for the word/phrase

[@sorrygoogle9828]

@@joshuawood1082 there is also a great site called forvo.com where you can listen to native pronunciation of most Japanese words :P

[@michaels3003]

I've already discovered pronunciation of Google Translate is not correct for some words, so it cannot be trusted (they don't tell you which words are pronounced correctly).

[@Kestrel16C]

Nah. The database is incomplete. In many cases it won't display the right one. Use the one Joshua Wood recommended.

[@melimellow95]

What I like about spanish is that we have rules for this. For example, if you read papa or papá. You immediately know how to read them.

[@Yamabi_Kaze]

I mean, in spanish we have a lot of accents all around the world, even verb forms and pronouns and we understand each other

[@demianlugo7677]

Yo, in English accent is a different thing, when Americans learn Spanish they call it tilde

[@cosmos-wp9ft]

I agree in a lot of south american countries instead of saying hola we say buenas but people from spain still understand it

[@Yamabi_Kaze]

@@demianlugo7677 I'm not talking about written accents, but speaking accents, and dialects, even the phrase structures are different from region to region

[@sasshiro]

@@Yamabi_Kaze pitch accent in Japanese is different to regional accents. It has more to do with which syllables have a raised pitch. In Spanish we have similar rules.

[@ShaferHart]

@@demianlugo7677 there's tilde and accent. Two different things (though they share words in spanish).

[@bekbolsunmukhamatov6308]

It's true that native speakers are usually not aware of how their languages work. Even if it's as simple things as vowel harmony and alternating consonants in my language. And they do that simple mistakes even in high school.

[@Darkalyle]

You'll find the "standard English" for the country you are in by watching the news. Each country has its own accent and words, but if you listen to the news or just TV in general you get a very bland version of that countries English (unless the presenter, or actor has a very thick accent or playing a character with a regional accent). BBC News English is very close to "Queen's English", and you will not hear "cockney" English even though that is more likely the closest you'll every get to a true historic English. Another place to hear a very standard English is in music where we bring in pitch and set beats. Quiet often the singer's accent will disappear completely.

[@Louisvr2024]

I really like pitch accent and every time I hear a new word, I practice the pitch accent. Many people said to me that pitch accent is not important but I still believe it's pretty useful and helps you to improve your pronunciation and communicate your thoughts better :3

[@kingwitty123]

learning japanese is so hard, and big progress needs a lot of time. grammar, particle, KANJI, dialect and now pitch accent. And good learning material in german is rare too. learning english is thousand times more easier than this.

[@default632]

It's only easy because it's everywhere.

[@channeldoesnotexist]

Well isn't English derived from German historically? Would make sense it wouldn't be too difficult coming from German

[@toyoashihara6242]

当たり前でしょう

[@cecy5963]

Yuta: my Spanish is not even close to being fluent “lo hablo para conocer chicas guap- gente buena y hacer amigos” Me a Spanish speaker: 😲

[@DarkShadow-pe4te]

True🤣🤣

[@miwwie1504]

Isn't that correct?!

[@barbievale]

Estoy en shock. Embuste. Ya sabía que él sabe Español. XD Hace mucho tiempo él había hecho un video de él intentando hablar con personas en Español en (si no me falla la memoria) México.

[@luckysbackupchannel]

when Yuta spoke Spanish, I pulled a Spanish version of "おぉ、日本語は上手です"

[@LuisEduardoGalarzaCervantes]

@@miwwie1504 It was great, even as a foreign language joke he pulled it off clean.

[@tysonfitzgerald2235]

Very good explanation of pitch. I studied Japanese in college and it wasn’t described so clearly.

[@carlflygare5687]

Really good video for those interested in the a little more "deep" and "complex" sides of language learning and the choices you can make. I think that many don't even think about this

[@bentosekai]

I've just started using a pitch accent dictionary whilst working through the core 2k/6k anki deck and it's been extremely helpful! I can usually pronounce Japanese words relatively well, but there are still a lot of words that I fumble with in terms of pitch accent, so it's helpful to understand how to refine my speech. I think that learning the basics of pitch accent is incredibly useful for any learner of Japanese :)

[@alexamderhamiltom5238]

dougen in control room: "okay, that`s for today, you can have your meal."

[@joshz8140]

You really covered so many aspects of Pitch Accent here and how it relates to language and culture. Great video, man!

[@Jellylamps]

When i learn any new vocabulary, i always try to listen to the way it sounds. Pitch accent is almost never the priority of what i listen for, but most times i absorb it subconsciously anyway. I’ve always thought of it in a very similar way to stress accent in english, which is often also paired with pitch in the way i speak, so to me it’s not that hard of a concept to take in.

[@circomatic6124]

I have to admit: I clicked "like" after 20 seconds, because of the T-shirt. Then I got distracted, thinking about the new panels in Chapter 139...also shortly got distracted thinking about content I certainly do not consume in a daily basis. Now I cannot compare the content of this video at all with Dogen- Samantha. Brilliant timing and marketing strategy - Chapeau!

[@dizzyantennae5883]

With the "great" example, there's also a low-high-low and elongated way of pronouncing it, indicating sarcasm (grEhht). I've always found it funny studying Japanese when teachers insist English has no pitch accent, when it does. Not in the same manner as in Japanese, but it's definitely there.

[@HDPew]

Currently taking your education by E-mail, learnt alot so far Thank You!

[@foodplsOld]

I like how you used the same example Pekora did for pitch accent.

[@yeetushmm6073]

ikr 😂😂 i had a feeling yuta was referencing a certain someone when he used that example

[@drsonaligupta75]

Man I am a BIG fan of the toaru series, loved that reference!

[@MechanicalRabbits]

I've been learning japanese for a year, why has NOBODY ever told me that Japanese has pitch accents before? I found it interesting how many words sounded the same way and were differenced only by their kanji, and thought it would make them harder to tell apart on a spoken conversation. This answers that question. A similar thing happens in Spanish, where words that contain the same letters in the same order are differenced by which syllable you stress.

[@Shannovian]

We do have standard English(es) but its based on countries. Usually its the version spoken by broadcasters (Received Pronunciation in the UK and ... whatever we call "American Standard" from the US.) That's why we can comment when someone speaks with an accent and someone-- say from Texas-- might say "my accent" in a way that someone who speaks one of those standard might think of themselves as "accentless."

[@turboapples1233]

I want to learn pitch accent to be able to seem more willing to learn Japanese but to me its really difficult to change how I've learnt to pronounce a word so what I do is when I see a new word I go onto a video of someone pronouncing it and replicate it over and over so that I can pronounce it correctly but I still mess up with pitch accent a lot

[@rukakoaye5368]

can you nail the phonems tho? pronunciaton isn't only about pitch accent

[@mooncaketin]

During my two years of taking beginner's Japanese in university, my professors never mentioned pitch accents at all. I only learned about them when I watched an episode of the J-drama "Trick", which also dealt with the different versions of "hashi" 😃

[@Bendelsohn]

I was first made aware of the existence of pitch accent after having studied Japanese for nine years while watching a Dougen video. None of my teachers in that time ever mentioned it once. The idea that I would have to relearn the pronunciation of every single word was absolutely horrifying to me. I thought I spoke I Japanese with a pretty good accent. I had bragged about it. This threw into question everything I had ever believed about my ability in speaking Japanese. Three years later I still don't have a good answer. I still don't know if I sound like an idiot when I'm speaking Japanese or not. I passed the N1 and I still don't know pitch accent. I'm a translator and I don't know pitch accent. Maybe I picked it up naturally from the time I spend living in Japan. Maybe I didn't. This horrifies me.

[@ashton-zx3mh]

the timing of this video is perfect. i just started to learn about pitch accent

[@DaftMANIA]

that subscribe messages built into an example was a smooth criminal

[@ValkyrieTiara]

Kizuna Ai aside, anybody who watches a lot of Korone also intuitively knows that pitch accent is at least a little important in Japanese and gets talked about all the time lol Also I want to say I really appreciate the bit at the end, where you talk about how you speak a language can communicate things about you as a person and your feelings regarding the language, people, and culture. I feel like not enough people understand that and I've never heard anybody but me talk about it before, so hearing someone else address that was really cool.

[@lainiwakura1776]

Yuta knows more Spanish than I do, and I'm half Mexican in Southern California.

[@AnimatorZeeVIDEO]

Those promos for his Japanese course are always so smooth and clever, lol. That aside, these videos are super helpful! I'm trying to learn Japanese myself and I'm still a beginner, but these are a huge help and help keep me motivated. ありがとうございます！

[@akira_ariga]

God, this concept was totally lost on me as a kid when it came to Japanese, cause the only people I had to speak Japanese with were my grandma and like one kid in high school. And it's not like we ever talked about anything complicated or for very long. It was a weird mix of that and Korean too, so my pitch for both languages was pretty messed up for a while. So it's good that I get to learn this at least now. What I've had to do for a while is to just watch talk shows and street interviews cause other than the two people in my life, that was the only way I could ever hear someone speak everyday Japanese.

[@hachi8882]

i was really stressing about pitch accent but the way you described it calmed me down :) ありがとうございます

[@devendrashelar7934]

I love the way his conversation slips into promotion of his course!

[@sukirii]

4:25 I think this is true for almost any language (when I learned english, I would always learn sentences structures I would never use in real life but once I learned most of the basic and more advanced vocabulary, I started watching KZbin videos and anime only in english, which made my english much more fluent and natural). That's why I think that at the beginning, everything you learn are just rules which you hammer into your brain but after some time of doing a big part of your daily life using that language (you don't even need to speak it or live in that country), you will not think about any grammar rules anymore and just do it intuitively without thinking about it.

[@jamc666]

To me its absolutely clear that pitch accent is very important when speaking japanese. The basic 'tones' from the japanese alphabet are so precise that you cannot ignore pitch accent if you want to sound anywhere near a real japanese. That example with Hashi really says it all.

[@HouseMDaddict]

This is so helpful! いえ is used for like 50 different words like no and house and no I'm going to check out if there's a "pitch accent"

[@KingSaheb0079]

I still can't comprehend how Yuta can say all those jokes with a straight face.

[@RamithGopinath1398]

This video came at just the right time, especially considering the renewed series of debates about whether pitch accent is really worth learning or not... Great stuff 👏🏼

[@cyphre]

I'd say it differs greatly in other languages. 'Pitch accent' in English is more about inflection; adding intent or emotion to existing words. Sadly there isn't a way to pronounce 'there, their, and they're' to determine their different meanings.

[@riotangel4701]

For me learning a language's vocal system is important; not only does one sound _clearer_ and intelligible, it carries more sincerely to native speakers. In my experience foreigners appreciate it when I try to pronounce words their way. It's also a joy to learn new soundscapes that my tongue and throat never learnt from young. e.g. German, French. That said, indeed Japanese language teachers should offer dedicated sessions to heighten awareness about pitch/tones _as well as_ speed. My original Japanese teachers hardly explicitly indicated some words have faster or slower pronunciations e.g. 七 しち (seven) and the 橋 vs 箸 like you mentioned.

[@starry3824]

This is a tough thing. While I can definitely hear them, I can't replicate them at all. I'm one of those folks who can't even sing a verse of the easiest songs. Voice control can of course be practiced.... but the question is why bother? From my experience, Japanese is a highly contextual language where majority of native speakers will opt to mind read you instead and will use the words only as a rough guideline... so far this has proven to be the truth for the most part (but you're expected to mind read as well :D) I mean, if you're already talented at voice replication/singing/music - yes by all means, check this one off your list too, it will probably happen automatically as you practice speaking in general - but if you're terrible at voice control, focusing on this while the language itself is a nightmare to learn would just make you lose motivation. Just yesterday I spoke with a friend who kept correcting me about 玉 and たまたま 's たま and while I could perfectly hear the pitch difference I just couldn't replicate it to the extent she'd say 'it's good now'. Countless examples pop up in my head, but most of the time, unlike Chinese where you completely change everything and can mess up big time - in Japanese people will actually understand you without any issues.

[@JackTse]

4:55 - true, perhaps the middle ground is... learn the pitch accent for the most common stuff once you are ready for it. hashi since it has to do with both a eating utensil and a tourist item is a perfect example... also once you know what it is, you can also learn through immersion as time goes on

[@Angiieread]

Yuta: lo hablo para conocer chicas guap... gente buena y hacer amigos Me: SHooked

[@SeraYagami]

What did he say? Can you translate please? 🙏

[@Angiieread]

@@SeraYagami I speak Spanish to meet hot gir.. meet good people and make friends 😭

[@SeraYagami]

@@Angiieread OMG Yuta-senseiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii xD Thanks for the translation! ^.^

[@dereklol8310]

when does he say this ?

[@NJDJ1986]

@@dereklol8310 @16:15

[@gianlu6863]

Since It's been an hot theme lately, I am glad I got to see a rant of yours about the argument, too. I agree on everything that was said, It was very clarifying.

[@javiervsenglish823]

Wow que buen español Yuta, ojalá encuentres muchas chicas guapas 😎

[@deSolAxe]

As with other languages, you can mostly ignore it when learning. If later you depend on Japanese - use it a lot at work, move to Japan etc. - you will pick this up after some time without having to pay attention to it, about the same way English pronunciation gets better the more you speak with native speakers if I remember correctly it is done subconsciously to blend-in, sure you can speed it up by focusing on it, but even without it one should be able to pick it up with time (to some degree)

[@Gruzbee]

English has several words that sound similar but mean different things, and understanding them is context based, so I would imagine that it is very much the same in Japanese. No one would surely be confused about eating with a pair of bridges... or driving across chopsticks. There has been an odd debate lately over the absolute necessity of pitch accents (between non-Japanese teachers) and why it is the most important thing ever. There has been this mindset of "Perfect Japanese" that does more harm than good. It's also worth noting that yes, we would never correct you on your language skills, we would just correct each other. Because English speakers can't stand not being able to correct each other over everything, and now that Pitch Accent is all the rage, we have something new to be dogmatic about.

[@StrikeA1G]

The argument isn’t about why it’s the most important thing ever nor is it about acquiring “Perfect Japanese”. It’s about why you should do at least the bare minimum to have a grasp of pitch in order to hear it when you’re listening to Japanese because even the bare minimum will have large benefits in your overall ability.

[@harshmnr]

See...I've been thinking about this for a while (especially because of Dogen's videos being in my recommendations 😂) and I have some thoughts. I've been studying Japanese for almost nine years and I do consider myself fluent, not like a native speaker obviously, but I can talk in-depth about any topic I want, etc. I do try to pay attention to my pronunciation and I want to sound as much like a native speaker as possible. But I will admit I've never paid that much attention to pitch accent, (maybe partially because I'm just lazy sometimes 😂) but mainly because I just think something like "I'll just listen to native speakers and try my best to emulate their pronunciation, and that way the pitch will come naturally." But the problem is, I don't have a Japanese person's ears. It drives me crazy because I know I probably don't sound perfect, but most of the time I can't hear my own accent in Japanese (not just for pitch but pronunciation in general), and even if I can, I don't know what to do to fix it. I feel pretty confident that I don't have that strong of an accent because I feel like I'm saying things basically the same way that I hear Japanese people say them. (And Japanese people understand me perfectly fine.) I notice other people's accents sometimes if they're really strong, but I just wish that I could hear what Japanese people hear so I would be able to pick up on the really little things and slight accents. Another thing that's hard to tell is if my Japanese accent doesn't sound natural, how much is because of actual pronunciation/pitch problems and how much is just the way my voice itself sounds? Sometimes I ask my Japanese friends to correct my pronunciation but Japanese people are often too nice and won't tell gaijins that their pronunciation is wrong. However a friend did tell me once that sometimes my pitch sounds unnatural when it comes to pronouncing katakana words that come from English, because I unconsciously use the English intonation. (For example, I said トッピング like "TOppingu" whereas it's supposed to just be all flat.) So I've tried to be a little more conscious of this lately. But sometimes I feel like trying so hard to think about your pitch all the time can actually make you sound _unnatural._ To be completely honest that's how I feel about Dogen sometimes...I know I have no place saying this because he's studied pitch waaaaay more than me and I'm not Japanese either so it's not easy or right for me to judge, but I'm just saying that even though I'm a fellow gaijin, when I listen to Dogen, to me it seems like he's trying so hard to make sure his pronunciation/pitch is perfect that his Japanese ends up sounding kind of weird/different from how I perceive natives' pronunciation. (Don't get me wrong, I know it's still very very good though. And I'm not saying mine is better.) Now that may be completely wrong, I understand. But it's just what I notice at this moment and that's why I want to know how Japanese people feel about his pronunciation. And mine too for goodness sake but it's just so hard to find a native speaker to correct it for me. 😒 Also, in the small number of Dogen's pitch videos that I've watched, the stuff that he says tends to seem kind of...obvious? to me (at least in terms of when I hear Japanese people speak) but at the same time I don't know if I'm actually saying it right when I talk. I really don't mean to sound high and mighty; I'm just genuinely curious. And wondering if anyone else feels this way. I guess I'm more of the "listen to native speakers, understand by context, try to emulate them" kind of person instead of specifically studying pitch itself. But the problem with that too is that I lived in Kyoto for a year so the Japanese I emulate might sometimes end up having an accent anyway, and also now that I'm back in America most of the Japanese I hear is me talking to myself. 😂 So if I'm making mistakes I just keep repeating them. Well that was a novel. 😂 Anybody have any thoughts, just let me know! ~:~

[@nullifiedou]

Yuta: "Hentai" Me in my head "Lowkey sounded like Usseewa"

[@saulgoodman4451]

That song is such a vibe

[@blackferrets820]

Banger

[@monicaant.1422]

I love that song ha

[@iordacheemanuel8965]

what thoes ussewa mean is it the same world as usseewa ?

[@monicaant.1422]

@@iordacheemanuel8965 shut up but in a rude way

[@berta112ify]

I love the fact that you used an English equivalent with the accents and pitches after explaining why. Definitely helped to understand

[@remanuel8396]

You begin by speaking about how intonation can change the meaning of a word in Japanese but then go on to compare it to English intonations and then use an "inflection" as your example. Inflections turn words into questions. I've heard Japanese speakers use this while dropping "desu ka" as well. In English we do have many words that are spelled the same but have different meanings through context and also through pronunciation. Minute (min-net) and Minute (My-new-t) is a good example. They have the exact same spelling but the former pronunciation is a measurement of time while the latter describes something very small. Perhaps examples like this can help people better understand why intonation and pronunciation is important

[@playmakersmusic]

I think Yuta is right on the money though, the two pronunciation of minute essentially stems from which syllables are being stressed. With the former, we stressed the first, while for the latter we stressed on the second. And Yuta had already established earlier on that Japanese language does not have stressed syllables

[@remanuel8396]

@@playmakersmusic I'm not saying he's wrong or that you are either but intonation works differently in English than it does in Japanese. In Japanese it can change the meaning of a word while in English intonation it is used more in expressing our mental state (we're questioning, expressing uncertainty or being definite etc) and it doesn't alter the meaning of the words itself. So in this respect I think Japanese intonation is more comparable to stressed syllables in English.

[@playmakersmusic]

@@remanuel8396 Fair enough, I get what you mean! Cheers!

[@SSSyndrome214]

I probably annoy the people around me whenever I watch one of Yuta's videos because he always has me bursting out in laughter. That last pronunciation of "hmmm" really got me. Never lose your sense of humor, Yuta!

[@naruoze]

I think mastering these accents is important if you want to sound natural. Chinese language also has tones for every character (漢字). Many foreigners sound foreign because they don't master the correct tones.

[@和泉-u3g]

i really love the way yuta says his line in different scenarios everytime he makes a different video

[@igodreamer7096]

16:15 I admit, you caught off guard there! HAHAHAHA Keep up the good work, man! 💪

[@Mythos27]

Okay, you've convinced me to subscribe to your e-mail newsletter and the channel. I'm learning Japanese using DuoLingo, books, and KZbin videos. So far your videos on spoken japanese and some really old, good videos on scripts have been the best deal for me. Thank you, really. 🙏🏻

[@VirginiaSuperSandLegend]

Please do a video of why so many people simp over Saya chan (Saya Hiyama).

[@grantfreeman8224]

I remember the point in my learning when I started thinking about pitch accent and found that by just learning about the concept itself and continuing my mimicking exercises, I naturally started using the correct pitch accent. I usually never thought about it because I'm simply copying the way a native speaker says the word or phrase. I think a natural approach like this can be a lot more inviting to learners than studying the pitch accent of every word you learn, which can be daunting to some, but I know everyone learns differently.

[@Demetoriusu]

I've enjoyed Japanese media for a decade and have not noticed that the people that speak it uses pitch accent outside of News Anchors, Kizuna Ai, and when I use website dictionaries like Jisho.