That Pedal Show - Buffers, True Bypass & Unimaginable Excitement

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Okay, so we lied about the Unimaginable Excitement part. It's largely pretty dull. Except when you have the buffer engaged, and then it can get really glassy...
Welcome to That Pedal Show! Please subscribe to our channel.
In this episode, Daniel and Mick offer some discussion and practical advice on buffers, including answers to the following questions.
-What is a buffer?
-Where might you use one?
-Where should you avoid them?
-How does this all relate to true bypass pedals?
-What the hell is true bypass anyway?
-Can cables really change your tone?
If your life is too short for grown men waffling on about effects pedals, you might prefer to skip to the following sections...
Buffer On & Off Sound Examples
08.45 - 09.28
10.12 - 10.42
13.19 - 25.30
24.22 - 25.30
What Is True Bypass?
15.14 - 20.15
Where To Put Your Buffer?
20.18 - 21.57
Some Condensed Practical Conclusions
23.03 - 24.00
Buffers with Germanium Transistors
24.08 -
And that's it! It's a lot more interesting than you thought, right?
Mick is playing a Fender American Vintage ’62 Stratocaster into a Two Rock Studio Pro 35.
You also hear a Wampler Dual Fusion and an Analogman Beano Boost.
The buffer is integral to one of the outputs of TheGigRig Humdinger and we're switching things with a QMX 2 by TheGigRig.
Thank you for watching!
If you like this stuff, please subscribe to our channel.
For more on TheGigRig please visit www.thegigrig.com
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USA: That Pedal Shop www.thatpedals...

[@evanreid4269]

I love how much I learn from these videos!

[@petergraham9267]

I’ve been playing for 40+ years.......and wasted SO much money on stuff I didn’t need to solve problems I didn’t understand.......these boys have solved most of them in just a few videos! Top job gentlemen! 😎👍

[@arjunabeuger]

I'm so happy this channel exists! Even though I am not really a technical guy I managed to improve my pedalboard and therefore sound a whole lot. Dan explains it all in a way which makes everything so much easier to understand. Thanks guys!

[@NoOne-ye5jf]

You guys should do an episode on attenuators :)

[@boozoochavis7506]

Cables make a HUGE difference - case in point, I got a large box of used cables from a friend who owned a music store, we went through all the cables to see whether they were working or not and were absolutely amazed at how different each cable sounded on their own straight through an amp - lesson learned!! All the pieces of the signal chain matter, the sum is much greater than the parts.

[@simon_patterson]

This was exactly the explanation I was looking for. Very well explained, and very useful. Thank you!

[@tomquayleguitar]

Yay! Awesome to see you back, Daniel! Hope you're fully recovered. Great episode as usual - I recognise that Dual Fusion! ;-)

[@ThatPedalShow]

Oh man, that's a special pedal :)

[@SundayBackNine]

Buffers with Germanium Transistors 24.08 - It was so helpful for me! I had been wondering why my fuzzface was so glassy in my board for a long time. Thank you so much for this topics guys!

[@ThatPedalShow]

No worries sir! In fact, we’re about to do a new show on Germanium fuzzes and boosts and wah wahs... should be interesting too. :0)

[@craigmachen]

I have absolutely no idea what any of this means, but I absolutely love that someone does and cares so much about it. This is a great video, even though I could only comprehend so much.

[@FilipFellner]

Where should I put the buffer in this type of pedal chain: Fender Road Worn Mexican Strat > MXR Micro Amp > MXR Dyna Comp > Boss DS2 > Mossrite Fuzzrite Clone > Ibanez WH10 > Ce-1 Clone (pre-amp always on) > Line 6 FM4 > Line6 DL4 > My Amp

[@stefanwessel6092]

What a great episode. I'd love to see the same for bass guitarists! So much useful info!

[@SocksworthRiffs]

Your channel is the one channel I constantly refresh every week to see if you have released a new video. I love your videos and you guys have increased my knowledge tenfold on different things about gear. Keep on making good videos, and let us know when we can buy shirts!

[@fooschmack]

Informative and helpful. Can you guys do a show on taming RFI hum? As in the hum you get that's louder with single coils, changes depending on where you point your guitar, turns off when you roll the volume down, that kind of hum?

[@ThePanchomack]

Thanks for this one guys ... Had exact the same issues with my Pedals (whammy, wah, lehle dual (-->Phase 90, Boss TR 2), BB Preamp, MXR Univibe, TC Flashback) going in an 2203 marshall ... Then, after gaining some knowledge here, putting my lehle dual sgos at the beginning of the chain: everything is fine!! No more tone loss, all the highs where they should be! cheers!

[@ThatPedalShow]

+ThePanchomack Excellent! That's how it should work. Thanks for watching!

[@paultwiselton1996]

BRILLIANT and important vid chaps. I've watched it twice back to back, to try and embed all the stuff to learn in my senile brain. Great work guys, thanks!

[@jongauthier9289]

Great video! I'm so glad that I've found you guys. The information you provide for us all is absolutely indispensable. You have influenced a good deal of my pedal decisions of late, and I couldn't be happier. It's so refreshing to see two guitarists who have such a love for music and guitar and not some show-off just stroking his ego. Love it, sirs, love it!

[@calebclements362]

The Pete Cornish buffer is fantastic. Pete also has a quite interesting article on his website making the case against True Bypass. But as you say, it certainly comes down to what sounds good to your ears. Thanks for a great video!

[@DavidDyte1969]

The struggle to make physics easy is so real. Very nicely done.

[@ThatPedalShow]

Thanks David :)

[@brewitt1]

Underrated video! Buffer's are essential especially as you add more pedals to your board

[@jakehahn2457]

Love you dudes. One of my absolute favorite channels 👍

[@samatkinsphotography]

Absolutely brilliant and well explained. I took delivery of a new G2 this week and it's completely changed the way I use my pedals now - Great work Dan!

[@ThatPedalShow]

+sam atkins ah, that's so great. Thanks Sam, great to have you onboard :)

[@daspotz5134]

Thanks guys, I love that you went so in depth with this. I think I finally understand now. Can you comment on the buffer of the Boss TU-3?

[@hbert06]

Great episode! You nailed the topic and it is one that every guitarist should know about. Thank you!

[@luckyno888]

You should really call this channel ... "That Pedal Show: How to Tame the Cacaphonous Frankenstein's Monster of Tone You Assembled Through Impulse Purchases Because You Thought You Heard Something in Your Head That You Didn't Hear But Eddie Van Halen Did Hear Or Thought He Heard."

[@mattgilbert7347]

XD XD

[@georgelackey622]

Sounds like most of us! That's why we're watching!

[@alantracy6757]

Everyone has talent but most of us have to work at it

[@rockcastlemusic]

😂😂

[@colt.thrower]

Fuck

[@threemilesmile6011]

I like to watch these videos more than once. That way I retain more usable knowledge, that will serve me well. You can learn this stuff by experimenting/experience, but it's great to get some much needed information too. Thank you gents for the demonstrations.

[@ThatPedalShow]

You're most welcome :)

[@BradsMyAgent]

Hey guys, great channel, great show! I'm trying to finalize my board (task of Sisyphus?) and just a couple more things I'm trying to accomplish: 1) to buffer or not to buffer, 2) custom lead connectors, 3) compressor?, 4) power supply. Rig is thus: LP trad, Gretch Electromatic, Anderson drop top classic into Fender DRRI by way of - polytune mini, xotic wah, band of gypsies FF mini, Wampler Tweed 57, OCD, phase 90, Aquapuss, HOF and 25 ' of cable. Buffer? if yes, where? For the sole purpose of cleaning up the board (not sound) I am interested in making my own leads with pancake connections. Question, best economy cable? soldered or solderless connections? A problem with my rig is where I play I cannot turn my amp up past 2, therefore, I'm missing out on a lot of natural compression and sustain I know my amp is capable of. Is this a common use for a compression pedal? Lastly, there are some super cheap power blocks for sale on amazon and ebay ($30-$40). I don't mind my 1 spot but I'm runninng short of leads once I get another pedal. Would it be worth it to get one of these as opposed to another 1 spot or wait until I want to chunk out $199 for pedal power 2?

[@BradsMyAgent]

By the way, IMO, the FF mini, Tweed 57 and OCD stack BEAUTIFULLY!!!!! So happy there

[@freddycookjr.2164]

GOOD TO SEE YOU UP AND AROUND DAN

[@ThatPedalShow]

Cheers Fred, feeling much better :)

[@danielroberts9579]

Awesome! BTW, saw an Eric Johnson rig rundown years ago and he specifically pointed out piles of cable coiled on the floor to add capacitance.

[@sean.eidemiller]

Guys, these videos are amazing. I've been playing guitar for a LONG ASS time and I've learned so much just in these past few months of watching your show here on KZbin. Excellent tone, excellent info, top-quality banter... Obviously I'm a huge fan. Moar, pls. :-)

[@ThatPedalShow]

+Sean Eidemiller thanks Sean, glad you've got a lot out of it :)

[@cameronwhite9959]

Buffers are also useful for fixing impedance mismatching with piezo pickups (and you don’t have an onboard preamp), in that case it gets rid of the quack on an upright bass. (Side note: I only recently realised that when we played as ‘Banjovi’ and plugged our banjos with piezos into Boss Distortion pedals, we were essentially self-medicating impedance mismatches).

[@manawarrior2010]

I've used a buffer for about a year now and sometimes take it off because it sort of seems like a waste of pedal space until I take it off and my tone sounds as flat as a witch's whatsit then I put it straight back on. I also love how the duller subject matter of these episodes are the most exciting. See you next week!

[@ThatPedalShow]

You have absolutely made my whole week Gareth - thank you! Seriously. :0) Mick

[@ThatPedalShow]

Just out of interest, what's your main guitar and amp?

[@manawarrior2010]

+That Pedal Show No idea why but ok!

[@manawarrior2010]

+That Pedal Show Strats and an original 1974 100 watt Marshall Superlead. Which is brighter than an A Bomb going off BUT I use the darker channel and have a massive signal chain of the ever changing carousel of phasers and delays and use a Hughes & Kettner Cream Machine for my gain because I could never get the Superlead loud enough to break up. So I've got 20ft of cable to my board, a load of pedals, another 20ft of cable, the cream machine, then another 20ft of cable. I did buy a 20 watt Panama Shaman Retro last week because every sound man in Lancashire and Greater Manchester hates me. They have you two to thank for that 8^)

[@BadMofoMusicCritic]

Great video. I recently removed two pedals from my chain - boss tu3 and mxr analog chorus, as in my opinion they degraded my tone. I use a tele and cables aren't too long, so maybe I didn't get the benefit of the buffer that one might get with humbuckers or long cables. I just got the tonal change, which I didn't like. Maybe those pedals have poor quality buffers? The only other buffered pedal I have is an ehx canyon delay, and though that one slightly alters my tone, it retains warmth and presence, so it stays.. And maybe that's good having the one buffer. After discovering the tone sacrifice, I'm way more wary of buffered pedals now.

[@maxdeantv6351]

hey guys I've seen almost every episode and i dig it when y'all don't use the G2, at least when you don't need to. obviously required when changing pedal order to save time. thanks for a great show, peace love. PS would be cool to see a bit of footage from sum of yalls band gigs.

[@michaelpolutta3131]

The Tuffy Hotpatch was a "clip to the guitar strap" buffer that works very well. Adjustable boost (trimpot) and 3-position switch for the amount of treble to roll off (none, a bit, a bit more).

[@tpaul522]

Mick and Dan, thank u simply for Wat u do , I'm a 30 year guitar player, although I don't have much giving experience I love the guitar and playing non the less, I have some electronic training in my past so it helps me to understand Wat ur explaining on a deeper level. Wich only causes me to want to ask a million more questions, but some other time, I'm far to big a guy for a tee shirt so maybe I'll have to air brush my own!! Thanks again That Pedal Show! I love it,,, due to one of ur recent shows I'm considering creating a wet dry rig, how do u like the sound of a Friedman pink taco and a Carvin legacy 3 for that application and a line 6 helix for all effects, I bet Dan could go crazy just fooling around with that combination !! Good day friends.

[@ThatPedalShow]

+Tony Paul cheers Tony :) I'm sure those amp will work a treat!

[@rickyjones7282]

I've certainly experienced this in great detail many times & that's why for emergency purposes I always carry a guitar that's loaded with EMG's (active pickups) because sometimes it's the only thing that's going to get the job done!! It's not as dark art as you think & I am not technical electronically but I go trial & error & mix true bypass & buffered pedals together & somehow this seems to work!!!

[@richardbrawn1019]

I actually really dug this episode, you guys know so much about the "science" of how things work, its great

[@ThatPedalShow]

So glad you enjoyed it Richard :)

[@BlairWhibley]

If Dan did my Electronics Design lectures at uni I might fall asleep less often!

[@ThatPedalShow]

Hahaha

[@napalmhardcore]

+Michael Wiegand Might want to read what he wrote more carefully.

[@napalmhardcore]

+Michael Wiegand Just thought I'd point it out before someone else gives you grief over what was obviously a mistake :)

[@BlairWhibley]

Hahah all good dude :)

[@luminositymusic3810]

Blair Whibley I finally have learned this.

[@QuadraticNightmare]

That's why I always end up leaving my light overdrive on, because it acts as a buffer!! Makes so much sense now. Thank you for the knowledge.

[@ThatPedalShow]

+QuadraticNightmare our pleasure :)

[@flyonsoul]

Love your show - watch every week. But the more I watch the happier I am with the sound of my Tele straight into my 15 watt Fisonic valve amp maxed out and using the volume and tone pots on the guitar to colour/overdrive and the odd splash of amp vibrato

[@irabucha]

Big fan here, hello! I want to ask a question. I have 5 meters (16 feet?) of cable between my guitar (Gibson SG) and my pedal board (7 true-bypass ones and 2 non-true-bypass ones), and 3 meters (10 feet?) between the board and the amp, and I think I can hear some treble lost?... Is this just too long? Is it that it won't help even if I add a buffer at the front of the board, because the cable before that is too long already?... If I want some treble back, what should I do?... I have watched this episode so many times, I don't know if I am learning all the helpful information and if I am learning it properly because of my English problem, so I apologize if you have covered the answer in the video. Hope to get a reply. Cheers anyway! :-)

[@capriom85]

Great video/lesson guys! Guess what!!! I added an Empress buffer to the front of my chain and...voila! No more loss of treble. 👍🏻

[@crazykong5246]

A lot of great information in this video, awesome delivery.

[@JamFactoryUK]

Dan is back! Harder to follow this week but definitely worth the concentration! Thanks

[@nilonbomber]

Two questions. Can't you simulate the the lead capacitance with the right type of capacitor on your tone control, or maybe an extra tone control for that purpose, which would mean you could dial in as little or as much as you wanted? Do you generally use a buffer Dan? Or just when using a long lead?

[@gianni.chiarello]

nice video...the problem find that most buffers tend to flatten the dynamic as well and make the sound 'harder' (for lack of better description, changing the 'feel' of the amp)...also not all buffered pedals play well with others...I wish that there was a buffer that you could 'mix in' parallel with the unaffected sound, just to add a touch of sparkle, without the issues... does that already exist?

[@PhilHeesen]

+Gianni Chiarello I wonder if you could put a buffer in a wet/dry loop blender?

[@jasonpitre1249]

Thanks guys, I can definitely say that I have a better understanding or insight to the whole buffer/true bypass quandary. Cheers.

[@petergraham9267]

So here’s a question......I’m using a Quartermaster 6, with drive pedals in first three positions and modulation in the last three..........I can’t put a buffer in between them, sadly, so where would be best? (Drive pedals are all Xotic.....RC, BB and AC) What would happen if I replaced one of the drive pedals with a Honeypot Fuzz? Where would the buffer go then? Would it work at the end of the chain just as well? (Okay, that was several questions.....😳😊)

[@TheCamilocedeno]

Such a detailed explanation about buffers. Thank you so much guys, I finally get it.

[@ThatPedalShow]

+Camilo Cedeno that's excellent Cam, so glad it's been helpful :)

[@eyupiblag]

Hi there. I am a subscriber to Guitar Techniques and Guitarist mags. And you both are so humble and fantastic... Thanks for everything. Keep on rocking'..

[@TigerCarpenter]

I'm a total newbie. but it would make sense to me to put the buffer at the end of the board, to "restore" / boost the lost high frequencies, on its way through the long cables and all pedals. if we put the buffer in front of the board, the pedals will still deteriorate the high frequencies, thus rendering the buffer useless or less effective. please correct my theory if I'm missing something.

[@benjames2398]

Great video as always, currently in the process of building my first board, i have a G3 on the way too. Was wondering if I still need an input and output buffer at the ends of my board if I got the G3? Given that the G3 already has a programable pre-effects loop buffer.

[@ThatPedalShow]

Hi Ben, no, G3 takes care of all that 🤓👍

[@Erukulon]

Thank you guys for all of these videos. I constantly find myself trying to explain all of these intricacies to friends/fellow musicians and it really surprises me how absolutely backwards most people have these facts. I usually fail at making them understand it so once I see the "This guy is more confused than me" face, I tell them I'll send them a link to your videos haha. You guys should really need to put out a short book explaining these videos subjects. With lots of pictures so the bass players that buy it can at least take comfort in owning a picture book after they put it down when the first paragraph is over their heads ;)

[@Gamma870]

Let's see if i got that! True bypass pedals have low impedance output when engaged! Does that mean if you're running a dirt pedal like the OCD all night and get your clean tone by rolling off the guitar's volume, that would eliminate the need for a buffer?

[@Tomsdrawings]

Thank you thank you thank you. As always you guys are generous. Knowledge sharing is such a good thing. I’m always laughing with the teacher-student dialogue. In some other episode, Mick raises his hand and Dan says: “uhmmm. Mister Taylor?” So cool. Anyway, Dan is such a brilliant teacher! Mick is also formidable in summarizing, asking questions, giving examples and sharing anecdotes. Thank you guys, you are gold.

[@TheRealFreekBos]

That was SUPER helpfull! Thank you soooo much guys! Don't be afraid to go technical!

[@robbieredball]

I've just bought a JRAD Mark Sampson MAX boost, xpander and buffer - the very questions I didn't know the answer too was where in the signal path (for the buffer).

[@PotemkinBUMP225]

Great show Dan. The question that arises for me is, if you have a decent buffer in your signal chain doesn't the expensive vs less expensive cable issue become a moot point? I realize you need a quality cable like a Canare or Mogami or something at least in the $30 range. But I can’t tell the difference between my $150 Vandenhul and a $20 homemade canare gs6 cable when I leave my RC booster on as a buffer with the gain off . It does make a big difference as you demonstrated with no buffer. Do you guys agree with that idea? If so I think I’ll buy good buffer. Does the Zcable meet the same criteria as high quality a buffer?

[@ThatPedalShow]

+Terry Goldstein Z Cable is like a tuneable cable buffer. Yes, after a buffer the cable capacitance makes a lot less impact

[@robertusmaximus42]

This explained so much. I'm a pedal freak who plays lead guitar in a metal band. They're great for building an eerie atmosphere in our music. But after a 10 - 11 true bypass long pedal chain (plus the ehx pitchfork... not sure what bypass that has) I noticed the distortion from my Peavey Valveking 100w head and Line 6 Spider 3 cab has become essentially dead. I've lost everything but my mid range... which I scoop slightly anyways. I also lose a good 50% of my gain. The resulting tone sounds hollow and has no sustain, when my tone use to be growling and sustain filled. My Xotic EP Booster worked for a while when I only had about 6 pedals, but now it literally only affects the volume no matter where it is in the chain. Sucks cuz it used to be my secret tone weapon. I tried an mxr 10 band eq and had an impossible time dialing in the right amount of highs and lows without being overbearing. The volume and gain boost really just add unbearable amounts of these frequencies. I've switched out my cables but still had the problem. I've also gotten an unbearable amount of hiss even even everything's bypassed. Recently found out that my gator power supply isn't isolated power so that explains some of that. But even using my MXR brick I'm still losing a lot of gain and my highs and lows. So to anyone who cared to read all that, does that sound like an impedance problem? And if so do you think it would be solved by a buffer? Kinda tired of spending more and more money to solve the same problem. I also run my tuner, wah, noise gate, fuzz and my pitchfork in front of the amp (and now my new afterlife of pitch) and my phaser, vibrato, tremolo, reverb, delay and boost and eq through the loop. Not sure if that makes any difference or not. Also not sure if it's a buffered loop either though.

[@userPrehistoricman]

Adding things is not fixing your problems. It's simply a cover-up. You need to figure out where your tone is going, and then try and do something about it. Don't try to solve a problem without knowing what the problem is. Putting things in the loop is like putting them after a distortion and EQ pedal. You can of course skip that section if you like by plugging directly into the power amp.

[@robertusmaximus42]

Prehistoricman Yeah I've isolated the tone suck to a combination of my ehx pitchfork and electrical problems with my guitar. I knew about the electrical issue but not the pitchfork. Didn't realize how noisey it was either until I went pedal by pedal in my chain.

[@userPrehistoricman]

Ah, it's good you found it. Has the Pitchfork always done that?

[@robertusmaximus42]

Prehistoricman To some degree yeah. When I first got it I noticed a small change in my tone but it was barely noticeable and was easily remedied with a boost that added a little more high end. But the more pedals I added to my chain the worse it got. Not to mention I've been running roughly 80 feet of cable going from my guitar to the top row of pedals, to the amp, from the fx loop send to the second row, to the fx loop return. Then you add a grounding issue in my guitar jack and you get a cluster fuck of tone suck and problems

[@userPrehistoricman]

fuck yea that sounds like a real headache Maybe a buffer after the Pitchfork would help?

[@themattitude]

Buffer my muffin.

[@napalmhardcore]

+Wethewax Mutter my button.

[@56madguy]

Mutter by mutton.

[@jaydean6092]

+56madguy butter my mutton

[@Adipsia1]

Butter my fluffer.

[@napalmhardcore]

Fluffer's my mother... sorry mum!

[@LysanderLH]

I could give you guys a hug for this.

[@ThatPedalShow]

Aww, cheers D :)

[@jimmythefish]

Thanks gents, I thought my five true bypass pedals and 10 feet of cable on each side of my board into my AC10 with my Gretsch wasn’t causing roll off but I plugged directly in and noticed a big difference. Buffered my first and last pedals with the dip switches and it brought back the high end. Cheers.

[@80sRadDad]

Why first and last pedal? Would you get the same result putting the buffer just at the beginning or just at the end of the pedal board?

[@Todesnuss]

Coincidentially this video is completely relevant to the current topic in the Audio Engieering course I am taking.

[@TheDogPa]

If you would like to be 'taken to school' on microphones, there is nothing better than this awesome book by one of my favorite teachers from when I studied Audio Engineering: "Getting Great Sounds: The Microphone Book" by Tom Lubin. Most engineers from my day had mentors like Tom and worked up from a gofer level. Today there is little mentoring or real technique passed on that way. This book helps. Every time someone is amazed by the sounds I can get from proper mic use and placement I think of Tom (thanks!). Taking classes is indeed commendable. Enjoy your journey!

[@friendsandfuncanada]

I have a buffered Klon (clone) that I am running directly before an Eventide Time Factor. Should I be using relay bypass or buffered bypass on the Eventide? Current signal chain: Korg Pitch Black portable (buffered) Rat2 Cot 50 Klon (buffered) Time Factor(buffered), Deluxe Memory Man 550TT, T Rex Tremster, TC Hall of fame (buffered)- amp

[@Mycall1983]

Great video, I've seen a lot of others on the subject but they miss a lot of points you covered great work !

[@santiagovanegas3812]

Very informative video. Generally speaking, what buffers best? A dedicated buffer pedal, or a pedal with a built in buffer?

[@ThatPedalShow]

+Santiago Vanegas No real answer to that Santiago. Only add a dedicated buffer if your pedals aren't doing the job and you need more zing, presence and life in your tone. Cheers!

[@santiagovanegas3812]

I'll give it a try. Thanks so much!

[@montychristo86]

You guys totally remind me of Arthur (Mick) and Mr. Peabody (Dan) from the Rocky and Bullwinkle Show. Loads of knowledge at one's fingertips and a great presentation.

[@ThatPedalShow]

+Christopher Taylor thanks... I think ;) actually, I'm very happy with Mr Peabody

[@AqmalShah]

I really love what you guys did here, and also what you guys did in other video. Really enlightened me on everything that I should know bout gear

[@ThatPedalShow]

+Aqmal Shah cheers Aqmal :)

[@ukaszStachowiak]

VERY VERY VERY good video! Thanks guys!

[@ThatPedalShow]

+Łukasz Stachowiak you're very welcome :)

[@psychoangus]

My friend uses chains of tone sucky pedals. I once said to him that I bet he was losing a lot of treble through them. He said "So? I'll just turn up the treble on my amp." We put his guitar into an A/B box, one channel going through his pedals and one straight into another input on his amp. Yes, the pedal channel had less treble or prescence. But as each channel on his amp had independant EQ, we turned up the treble on his amp on the pedal channel like he said and with a bit of tweaking got it to a point where we couldn't tell the difference between the A or B channels. And that was in a silent room, not within a band mix. I'm all for tone geekiness but sometimes it's a pretty silly thing to get your knickers in twist when you can just turn up a knob on your amp.

[@ThatPedalShow]

+psychoangus Definitely some truth in that, Psycho and we'd always advocate the obvious/easiest route first. It's worth saying that not all amps have a similar EQ response, so sometimes the treble pot won't do the same job. Also, turning the amp treble up might be good for one pedal but not the others and so on. But yes - trying the obvious solution first can definitely save time and money! Thanks for the input and for watching the show!

[@psychoangus]

+That Pedal Show Totally. Obviously different amps will respond differently, I've only just come across your channel and I really enjoy it. Cheers guys.

[@billpholde4816]

Took a while but Dan answered all my questions about buffers. A.) They don't do anything. B.) Get a cool-looking coily cable. Yay! Simplicity.

[@marsattacks7071]

Thank you so much for that demo & explanations ! As usual, you're are top notch pros ! The guitar cord (the coiled one) is probably 20 feet long (I have one of those). Take a look at EMPRESS buffers (from Canada; my country). Very high quality and versatility (stereo one). I would have liked to hear demos of the buffer at different places in the chain (pedal board) and maybe in the effect chain too. I know that you talked mainly of putting it at the beginning of the chain, after the overdrive or fuzz for great results. THANK YOU !

[@AlistairLindsay]

Really helpful. Thank you! 👍

[@cgraugaard]

First rule of That Pedal Show is: "It's longer than it looks!"

[@tronpesto3978]

So the lightbulb goes off... Took my Klon off the board because I started having panic attacks every time I left the house with it. I couldn't figure out why I was losing presence with my Les Paul - particularly when I engaged my OCD but didn't find the same with Strat. I always have the HyperGravity on (first in chain) with the Strat, but never with the LP - we play a wide range of songs and I switch between the two guitars fairly often. So now I'm thinking I can put a buffer at the beginning of chain and kick that in for LP and kick it off when using HyperGravity/Strat. (No, the Centaur is no longer leaving the house!) Am I on the right track? Am I getting this? And Cheers guys - I have learned so much from you two!

[@tronpesto3978]

But wait - I just realized something - I replaced the Klon with a Soul Food (!) and set it in true bypass (the Klon and now the SF are right after the HyperGravity). Maybe I'll try switching the SF to Buffer (it's switchable, which I now realize is a nice option), but I have a feeling it won't live up to Mr. Finnegan's buffer. I'll see. And before you say anything - I have the boost BEFORE the OCD because I have a Maxon OD-9 after the OCD so I can kick it in to pop through the mix during solos - another thing I learned from you guys. You and your damned better questions! I now have this constant Q&A going on in my brain!

[@ThatPedalShow]

+Steven Nani Hi Steven, yes, definitely try the SF buffer before you go to the hassle of getting a separate one. And if you do, consider Dan's Three2One - could be very useful to you. Cheers! www.thegigrig.com/Mobile/MBSCProduct.asp?pdtid=22073675

[@tronpesto3978]

Thanks for the reply! For the sake of closing the loop (pun intended), I will report back with the results.

[@tronpesto3978]

Made the change and played tonight - wow, yeah, that did it! Thanks!

[@bradkang92]

You mention it's only true bypass if the pedals are off. If I you a true bypass pedal at the start of the chain that will be always on, (Boost/Klon/OD etc etc) will that act as a buffer? Also, why have pedals gone on to evolve into true bypass if this is a desirable effect? I suspect it's the discrepancy of the quality of the buffers as you guys mention, but are there other problems that are introduced when you have multiple buffered pedals? You also say the impedance is dropped from the guitar when it goes through a buffer. If a second pedal receives the signal at a lowered impedance, does the second pedal further lower the impedance? Or is there a generally agreed amount between pedal makers that is a fixed amount of impedance? Finally, if the pedals that are 'on' act as a buffer, having say lets say, (ie, Boost/OD/Trem/Delay/Reverb) 5 pedals active cause problems if buffer stacking is indeed a problem? I'm just curious how this all works, would appreciate a response! Thanks for the great show guys!

[@ThatPedalShow]

1. If you have an 'always on' pedal at the start of the signal path, that will act as a buffer 2. Problems occur when you stack lots of buffers, also the quality of buffers differs greatly from brand to brand. 3. The output impedance of the last buffer in a chain of buffers will set the output impedance for the rest of the signal chain. It's not a cumulative effect, the output impedance of one pedal/ buffer will simply drive the input impedance of the next pedal/buffer 4. If you have 5 pedals turned on and it gives you the sound you want, then that's all that matters

[@bradkang92]

+That Pedal Show Thanks so much mate! All interesting stuff. Learned a few new things today.

[@elijahdelp2893]

So even if the always on pedal at the beginning of the chain is true bypass, it will still act as a buffer?

[@natancampos92]

@@ThatPedalShow Just to be clear: so if any "always on" pedal acts as a buffer, I only need to add a buffer to my chain if I want a "guitar to amp" sound, with every thing else turned off (assuming "everthing else" is true bypass)?

[@jeffbriggs4268]

This is one of the most important & informative videos I've seen. Well done!!! Thanks guys! Also, signal decay might be a reason to use the HX Stomp or other modelling unit.

[@willcraig6421]

Got a perfect example: My KTR is last in my OD chain,before any other time-based effects(not using an effects loop,despite having one).It contains a pretty well known buffer.I noticed my TC Flashback echo sounding "darker"than usual when engaged.Checked the buffer on/off on the Klon,& it had been inadvertently switched to"most always worse",or off.Clicked it back on & Voila!!,a crisp echo.

[@ThatPedalShow]

+Will Craig Yes! Mr Finnegan's buffer is indeed splendidos.

[@willcraig6421]

Indeed,makes everything around it sound better.So it never leaves the board.Sounds awesome with an Epiphone Casino.

[@gmlasam]

Subscribed!! I don't subscribe to too many channels, but your channel is essential to all guitar players. The guys from Analogman sent me here after I just purchased the Beano Boost.

[@ThatPedalShow]

+gmlasam Cheers G, nice to have you onboard :)

[@pedrogonic]

Wow! You've got your electronics together! Great lesson!

[@ThatPedalShow]

+Pedro Goñi Coelho ;)

[@MarshallSetUps]

Does a non-tru-bypass pedal in the signal chain nullify a buffer? And, when using an effects loop, does the buffer, buffer the signal passing through the effects loop thus removing the added cable length?

[@ejgane]

Another excellent insight and cuts straight through the nonsense. Excellent work fellas 🤘

[@ThatPedalShow]

Cheers Ed :)

[@markstockford9109]

Is there a difference between a buffer that's built into a pedal such as a Boss Overdrive pedal, and a dedicated stand-alone buffer?

[@really.not.important]

Goddamit! Every time I search something gear related on youtube I get either you guys or Henning Pauly. STOP BEING SO GOOD AND THOROUGH! It's scary.

[@jatin7361]

Very well done, gents. One of the best explanations on buffers I've seen. Perhaps unrelated, but do pedals running higher voltages have any interaction with a buffer? What about multiple pedals using higher voltages mixed with lower voltages? Some manufacturers use a different power supply to accomplish this and recently some are using "charge pumps" to increase the voltage internally. Thoughts? Love your channel!

[@Papa_O.A.M]

Great video and something that Ive been pondering about. I recently bought your ABY-Baby splitter pedal, which has a tru bi-pass out or buffered bi-pass out from amp A and I wasnt sure which I should use. I have a medium sized board with 13 pedals on it, all tru bi-pass, and have a boss waza craft tu-3w at the start of my chain that I have on buffer mode. Your ABY switcher comes into my chain after my overdrives and thru this video it seems it might be a good idea to run out in the buffer out rather than the tru bi-pass out? not sure, especially because I have a buffer/boss tuner with one built in it and I have the buffer engaged. So should I be running 2 buffers in my chain? and I do have long cable runs. Thanks in advance for your help and I absolutely love your videos and all of your products. Keep up the great work!

[@alexmillar8242]

I always used to get involved with debates like this about cables. My argument was that paying more for a cable doesnt always mean a better cable. Considering how easy it is to make a very good cable yourself, i fail to see the justification in price jump. It seems a lot of companies have jumped on the bandwagon and are taking advantage of gullible guitarists. Hopefully this video will serve as a lesson to educate those players.

[@bbnatedogg]

+Alex Millar You're right. The length of cable matters, not really the price. There are some super cheap ones that are detrimental to your sound, but you can get a very good one for not much money. The super expensive ones won't give you any benefit.

[@MintStiles]

I don't run too many pedals. At first I bought into the wisdom of always using pre and post buffer while using as many true bypass pedals as possible. But i often find buffers cause more trouble than help. The highs can become too pronounced and the attacks much too snappy. The point is, I think it really depends on your rig and everything in it to decide whether a buffer is good for your application or otherwise.

[@m00nsplitter72]

Thank you for yet another very interesting presentation.

[@Respecttheriff]

Just got a buffer and running in front of a strange master germanium treble booster, as you mentioned it's not a pleasant sound. Have not experimented yet but would moving the buffer after the drives (and treble booster) correct the harshness or will I likely still experience problems with any pairing of the TB and buffer?

[@ThatPedalShow]

+JayDeeSG move it after the drives. Happy days :)

[@smol88]

Thank you so much for this episode, ik was running a TS9 in front of a MXR La Machine fuzz and never got a good tone (to much trebble). Because of this episode a changed it and put the TS9 after all my MXR pedals (also after the phase 90 en EVH flanger, which kind of have the same problem) and the sound is so much better!!!

[@ThatPedalShow]

Yes! That's the way it should work Smol. Nice one. Thanks for watching!

[@guitarjediwarrior]

That was so helpful and good to understand, and sums up the topic perfect. Thank you :)

[@voxpathfinder15r]

A couple of thoughts, first that 30 feet of cable rolled up introduces a lot of inductance into the circuit - it would be interesting if you compared it again but spread that cable out so no inductance is introduced. And it's a little misleading about buffers re-introducing highs back into the sound - you can't just put it anywhere, it only affects the signal downwind, so if some kid thinks he can put a buffer on his board and now run 100 ft of cable from his guitar to the board - it won't have the effect he was looking for, it will only affect the effective length of cable that all the pedals introduce and the amount of cable leaving the board and going back to the amp. If anything, they should sell these buffers so they plug directly into your guitar similar to the treble boosters, or something so small that it can go inline between two guitar cables and get dragged around on stage.

[@subtlesystem88]

Great show!!! As always guys! Very informative even for a subject I'm familiar with the explanation was great... But just to be clear, because as great the explanation was I still want to confirm that if I have mostly true bypass pedals but I have a few at the end with Buffers in the pedals for example the Boss DD-500, the Flashback Triple Delay and my Digitech Polara reverb I have them all on Buffered to leave the trails on... But do you think that's enough to work as a stand alone buffer? I have a bunch of fuzz at beginning of my chain so I do not have any buffers there.... But would you say that's good enough? Or maybe even turn some off? Any more tips would be greatly appreciated! :D

[@MerrickGuitar]

I look forward to a new episode so badly. Thanks Mick and Dan

[@MerrickGuitar]

What do you guys think of the Empress Buffer+ - empresseffects.com/products/buffer-1

[@stacks4943]

Hey Daniel... What do you think of the buffer that you can get in the Analog Man KOT..?

[@adamkrauss303]

I too was eagerly awaiting a show on buffers and while this was very useful, I wish you spent another 5-10 minutes on buffer placement, including when using effects loops (another show in the making) and number of buffers for a couple of set ups. Thanks. I am considering the Mesa buffer that provides a buffered signal for two spots in the pedal chain.

[@philbrannigan5854]

Thanks for an excellent demo.

[@PoJoWo]

I'm going to send some of my students in the direction of this video. Awesome, effective demonstration. One thing that I've never really heard talked about in reference to Brian May and hendrix and their long cables (and tone sacking wahs etc) is that the fact they were running into lower impedance inputs (treble boosters etc with the bias on the front end) surely lessened the damage caused by the capacitance of the cable. It certainly will have flattened the attack of the notes by loading the pickup coils, but having a smaller value resistor in a low pass circuit moves the corner frequency upwards. The difference in the virtual lpf resistor between running into a load of old school tone suckers, verses the Albert Collins route of a load of cable into a high impedance amp input (ten times the resistance possibly) moves the corner frequency of the filter significantly. No wonder Albert could stand the quad reverb. I wouldn't like to have a quad dimed with a ton of boss buffers in front. I think this is also why people often cannot believe the tones of some of the old school Marshall recordings being so much chunkier. Modern low capacitance cable and buffers contribute a substantially different pre Distortion eq to what the guys had back in those less refined, naive days, possibly lol. Sorry for waffling. Love the show

[@ThatPedalShow]

+PoJoWo waffle away! Love it :) Cheers P

[@VintageSG]

+PoJoWo Waffle on!, that's good waffle. I know good waffle when I see it ;-) You triggered a memory of an article, www.premierguitar.com/articles/The_Vintage_Coiled_Cable_Simulator_Mod Hopefully it has come out as a link to a Premier Guitar article called 'The Vintage Coiled Cable Simulator' The simulator itself looks simple enough.

[@PoJoWo]

+VintageSG thanks for the link to the cool article, that's the kinda thing. Years ago stewart ward was selling a rotary switch with small caps on to replace one of your tones so you could adjust the effect from the guitar. It's definitely valid. Anyone who's used low input impedance effects knows it hugely limits the effect of your tone control to the point that it becomes very subtle and again is a side effect and oddity that these guys exploited without understanding back in the day. I believe radial make the dragster which allows you to create a similar effect in a controlled way. Another often missed element about vintage pickups and microphonics is that the treble was never making it to the amp for the above reasons, in order to squeal. Take some of those lovely old microphonics pickups, down some low capacitance cable, into a buffer, into a Marshall that's turned down and emphasising the treble via its bright cap and we're a world away from where they were. Thankfully with people like Dan and mick demonstrating this stuff on KZbin it gives the modern guitarist the aural lessons that twenty years ago weren't there, and the devil was happily hiding in a few details that add up to a totally different end. These finer elements really are where the magic lies. Cheers!

[@PoJoWo]

+VintageSG thanks for the link to the cool article, that's the kinda thing. Years ago stewart ward was selling a rotary switch with small caps on to replace one of your tones so you could adjust the effect from the guitar. It's definitely valid. Anyone who's used low input impedance effects knows it hugely limits the effect of your tone control to the point that it becomes very subtle and again is a side effect and oddity that these guys exploited without understanding back in the day. I believe radial make the dragster which allows you to create a similar effect in a controlled way. Another often missed element about vintage pickups and microphonics is that the treble was never making it to the amp for the above reasons, in order to squeal. Take some of those lovely old microphonics pickups, down some low capacitance cable, into a buffer, into a Marshall that's turned down and emphasising the treble via its bright cap and we're a world away from where they were. Thankfully with people like Dan and mick demonstrating this stuff on KZbin it gives the modern guitarist the aural lessons that twenty years ago weren't there, and the devil was happily hiding in a few details that add up to a totally different end. These finer elements really are where the magic lies. Cheers!

[@Adipsia1]

I'm unimaginably excited... and am so grateful to Dan for explaining all of this. My excitement boiled-over to such an extent earlier that I suggested my lovely fiancee watch this with me. Sadly she's now snoring... :( I'm thinking that there could be a buffering issue between Mars and Venus, and my chances of her putting on a G-string aren't looking positive tonight... also the chances of my exploring the dark side of the moon are definitely off the menu. ;) So I may as well watch the next video on power supplies.