That Pedal Show - Amps: How Many Watts Do You Need?

Welcome to That Pedal Show and thank you for watching - please subscribe to our channel and visit our store www.thatpedalshowstore.com/
In this episode, Daniel and Mick are tackling a couple of potentially confusing questions…
• How relevant is the output wattage of your amp to its actual volume?
• How relevant is the output wattage of your amp to its tone, dynamics and response on the end of your guitars and pedals?
To help explore these questions and more, they have a Vox AC10 Twin (approx. 10 watts), Vox AC30 (approx. 30 watts) and a Mesa Lone Star (approx 100 watts) on hand.
Daniel is using his Fender Custom Shop ’63 Telecaster and Mick is using his Fender American Vintage ’62 Stratocaster.
The pedals used today are:
Wampler Tumnus Overdrive
UK & Europe: bit.ly/2gclnLh
USA: bit.ly/3yJjLlu
Australia: bit.ly/2Vy2v1q
Fire Custom Shop Carpe Diem Distortion - no longer made
Analogman ARDX20 Analogue Delay
www.buyanalogman.com/Analog_M...
As always, all amp and effects switching and routing is via TheGigRig G2. www.thegigrig.com/
Now, this almost certainly won’t be the last video we do on the subject as we suspect it will throw up a ton of questions. We absolutely love your feedback but before taking to the keyboard, the following may answer some of the more obvious questions…
Mick’s thoughts after hearing the audio and editing the video…
Well that was interesting! As Dan and I mentioned during the video, we had an idea of what the resultant tones would be, but we were interested to hear what actually made it to the recorder. A number of questions spring to mind after hearing the audio back…
Q: Why didn’t we use a dB meter so there was a visual representation of the volume differences?
A: It would have confused things further. Your ears/brain are incredibly sophisticated at interpreting loudness in a way that your eyes/brain just aren’t. Plus, the last time Mick used a dB meter (comparing amps with a dragster for Guitarist mag), the dB results had very little relevance to what we actually ‘heard’ on the day.
Q: How come all the amps sound more or less the same volume in the audio?
A: Because quiet signals don’t sound as good as loud ones. If we’d have set the recording levels to handle the highest level from the Mesa, the AC10 would have sounded relatively thin and weedy, which certainly was not the case in the room. Mics require a little more intervention than your ears when it comes to level adjustment.
Also during playback, your brain will tell you that a louder sound (as long as it’s not over loud or clipping) is ‘better’ than a very quiet one. Again, we wanted to avoid that bias.
Q: How loud was it, really, in the room?
A: The faces tell the story! The AC10 and AC30 were borderline uncomfortable. Probably an excellent club gigging level, although we’ve had to play A LOT quieter. The Mesa was more than uncomfortable for more than a few seconds’ playing. It’s hard to imagine a ‘normal’ pub or club gig where you’d get to play that loud (in mine and Dan’s world anyway).
Q: Don’t confuse a ‘loud’ sound with a ‘full’ sound? What does that mean?
A: This relates to recorded guitar tones. We attempted to demo the answer in the video, but as it happens, the Mesa ended up sounding pretty big too, and that may well be because of the room mics we use. In addition to the Sennheiser e906 mics on the amps there is also an X-Y pair on our recording device (Zoom H6), faced away from the amps. We mix some of this in with the cab mics as it gives a more realistic impression of what we’re hearing in the room - a lone e906 (or SM57) on a belting speaker really doesn’t sound like the amp in the room. It sounds smaller, more contained, with little of the low-end resonance and whatever else the room brings. It can be a great sound for recording in a track because it sits well in a mix. In addition, the louder you push a big amp, the more those reflections and room sounds can become problematic for the mics, which is why you need to limit them, either by acoustic treatment in the room, or by simply using close mics only. All of which helps to explain why using smaller amps with a couple of mics can be so much less hassle and yield far better results when recording - especially at home or in small project studios. That’s what we mean when we say a ‘loud’ sound isn’t necessarily a ‘big’ sound.
Er, except when you're out playing live, un-mic'd. In which case it's hopefully both!
Q: So did we actually conclude anything in the end?
A: Yes! You can get a great sound out of any decent valve amplifier, regardless of wattage, when you have your pedals chosen and set up to work with that amp. Some people like smaller amps cranked to compressing, overdriving oblivion, while others like big amps for maximum headroom and dynamic range from their pedals.
Want to buy a T-shirt? Please visit www.thatpedalshowstore.com

[@greyninja88]

9:08 ..... really unfortunate guitar strap placement on Dan's t shirt :'). another great video though. amazing the difference the amps sound depending on if the strat was playing vs the tele.

[@jerrypilgrim9811]

Jonathan Smith-Wesson omg you're right about the shirt, it looked like "pedo" at times,, love these guys but that's hilarious!!!

[@hosoiarchives4858]

Lol

[@jukkapesonen8511]

My friend has a shirt that says ANALOG but unfortunate for him, his guitar strap always covers the last two letters.

[@burmanon11]

haha

[@chuckdriver7741]

😂😂😂

[@JasonFiske]

As an aside, please be careful of your hearing. It's a sad thing to loose your hearing as you age. It's incredibly isolating.

[@fezzes428]

capitan von chicken pants yes not fun at all i have a hard time sleeping now with voices in my head and the constant ringing noise

[@danielskrivan6921]

WHAT?

[@Tonetwisters]

Agreed. Been at this for 57+ years. The crickets are singing to me CONSTANTLY, and get miserably louder when I crank my '64 Super Reverb with a Boss Compressor to make it sound the way it should. Can only play for a few minutes, but pay for several hours with greatly increased white noise. BTW: My finding is that true Class A amps (without negative feedback loop) will do less damage to the hearing because it has less punch than Class A/B. Again, that's from an experienced player. ALSO: Watch the amount of weight you carry and lift in and out of your car trunk. I played weekends for most of 35 years, and the last band I was with, I would heft my Fender Twin up over my head and carry it though the crowd at quitting time. I have had foraminal stenosis for eight years now, making it painful to walk every step. It comes from squashing your spinal discs which causes the body to try to fill the space with bone, which presses against the nerves. However, it can be reversed with Hekla Lava and Ca. Flourica. See Dr. Katchen on KZbin. kzbin.info/www/bejne/ZnqkZ3xunpt-grM

[@XENONEZZ2]

The other sad thing is the huge number of people reading your comment thinking....''It won't happen to me'' The next equally sad thing is that it probably will...!!

[@astewart9410]

Spot on. And perhaps doubly hard for musicians, who base their whole life on sounds and songs...

[@matthewmasaveg2717]

For those wondering, the actual difference between the 10W & 100W is 10dB. 1W=30dBm, 10W=40dBm, & 100W=50dBm. To get 60dBm you would need 1,000 Watts of power!!! You guys are absolutely amazing! You keep the information interesting, and at the core of it all you keep exploring, which in my opinion is exactly what music is! Thanks and I hope you stay around for a long while!

[@ThatPedalShow]

+Matthew M cheers M :)

[@alexleech4490]

Interesting bits and go-to sections: 00:00 - Intro playing and what two leg-ends are doing today 02:08 - How much louder is a 30 watt amp than a 10 watt amp? 03:12 - Introducing Captain Maths, and how wattage relates to volume (04:35 - nuance: how relevant is the wattage metric?) 08:13 - How the amp's headroom affects actual volume vs compressing/one's perception of volume 10:19 - The nuance and debate on the relevance of wattage in attaining stage volume (11:28 - don't buy a 100 watt Marshall) 12:13 - Benefits of getting your drive tones from your pedals (13:32 - Mick's massive generalization) 14:31 - Boosting into a 10 watt amp vs boosting into a 100 watt amp 17:31 - The point of breakup, tailoring pedals to your desired sound, and 50 watt vs 100 watt amps 18:37 - SRV's approach 19:07 - Sometimes, Dan's genius... it's almost frightening... 22:08 - A loud sound isn't necessarily a big sound (24:09 - commentary on the results) 25:29 - Mick has a schwang, and Dan smiles (26:42 - more commentary on the results) 27:59 - Watt all this means, and Mick has horrible realization @ThatPedalShow somehow crammed more useful info into a 30min video than should be possible... A grateful nation of tone junkies thanks you!

[@CalvinMagnusMusic]

For a few months I was the guitar tech for a guy that used a Triple Rectifier (150w) which is one of the loudest amps around. He used it because he liked the clean headroom/pre-amp distortion tone, didn't care about the power section at all, so at normal volume the pre-amp section stays untouched, worked great for him. However, I was always curious about how it would sound cranked to the max, so one time at a small live venue soundcheck, we did it just for the fun factor and holy shit it almost ripped my head in half. He played for 10 or 15sec until I noticed the cab slowly moving backwards from the sheer force of the air pressure pushed out by the speakers lol.

[@michelambi5663]

I've been playing for twenty years. Each time I see your videos I learn something. Thanks ! Keep up the good work.

[@luckylicks3497]

I'd vote this episode as #1 so far. Your approach from an educational standpoint is what makes this so interesting. Keep it up!

[@iangoode9163]

It's so refreshing to see videos by people who are not only skilled guitar players, but are also articulate and knowledgeable about the subjects they speak about. You guys are really great!

[@chuckdriver8269]

The Vox AC-15C1 purchase I made two years ago has been a master class eye opening experience in just exactly how many watts are truly needed to gig. From my perspective it’s 15 watts. Cheers!🎸🇺🇸

[@sansubr]

Does the sound guy mic the amp? How do you get the sound to your audience?

[@teendivorce6980]

you guys have seriously taught me more about gear than anyone else

[@ThatPedalShow]

+TEEN DIVORCE ah, cheers T, you're very welcome ;)

[@bobtaylor5932]

I did not discover the content of this video until I had the pleasure of playing - and ultimately purchasing - a Traynor YBA-1..... loud, Loud, LOUD like my old 15 watt Vox AC15, but the 40-50ish watt headroom is glorious. I am now addicted to higher wattage amps purely for that power section headroom. Nice work gentlemen!

[@jakestewartmusic]

This video has done so much for me and my tone. I used to set my amp clean and use an OD for dirt and a booster at the end of the chain for solos. I watched this again and wondered how it would sound to just crank my amp to 10 and dial the volume back a bit for rhythm. Tried it and now I'm hooked. Funny enough that because of That Pedal Show, I've stopped using OD pedals, traded out my delay pedal for an Echoplex, and started using onboard spring reverb in the amp instead of a reverb pedal or slapback delay. I played a gig the other night with absolutely no pedals and loved it.

[@johnmarquez333]

24:13-24:16 "Huh?!" Priceless! Fascinating video. You guys are the best!

[@stevepalmer1847]

AC30 with the odrive pedal sounded excellent . Learned about the 3db/ double power too.

[@JUN01985]

As a proud gear nerd, this is my favorite show on any format! I love how it is never about "you need said gear to sound like so...." Its really about what works best for you, being familiar with our own gear, and great educational information about technical aspects of tone

[@johns1139]

I think people need to watch this video before they start shopping around and/or comparing amps and pedals. The info on this video is so useful!

[@24ZEPACDC]

Even though it's "That Pedal Show" I think that in the future, discussions of amp speakers, guitar pickups should be had as well!

[@johnsorgini1722]

24ZEPACDC that speaker show

[@johnsorgini1722]

That cord length show

[@ravenshield56]

Currently playing with the Laney Ironheart- switchable between 1-20 Watts it's bloody lovely to practise at home on 1 and blast open that headroom at 20 when your gigging/practicing, a lot more companies are starting to do this now, from Blackstar to Marshall, thankfully a lot more people are aware of the whole Wattage != louder volumes situation

[@castleanthrax1833]

Low wattage amps rule for home use. I play a blackstar 5 at home at it stays on 0.5 most of the time, and that can be quite loud through a 212 cab. No need for anything bigger when I'm on my own. ✌️🇦🇺

[@RandyFricke]

I played a gig at The Blue Lagoon Saloon in Venice, CA back in the '80s with my then HIWATT CUSTOM 50. The sound tech kept saying "you have to turn down my mate" (he was an Englishman) and the minute I did, there went my tone, my distortion, and the compression that came with it. That's when I remembered something a band I saw several years earlier in my home town where they turned their speaker cabinet around. So that's what I did. It allowed me to keep the amp cranked enough to get my personality and the sound tech bought me a drink after our set. Today I still have a couple of big amps but I also have a pedal board with a Seymour Duncan Powerstage 170 on it. No amp head needed at all. So go small. Less to lug around and you're miking it up anyway. Good luck and another GREAT vid from Dan and Mick.

[@jimmyp1017]

This vid and the one where you were "gain stacking" pedals have been SO helpful for me...thank you for sharing your experience and knowledge! I recommend both the vids for any player who is having trouble getting "the tone" at a volume that doesn't get you fired or run out of a club. Thank you guys!

[@yaisum]

A guitar demo/explanation video where the presenters are well informed players who aren't trying out their hilarious 90s comedy double act. What's going on here?

[@ThatPedalShow]

+yaisum Hahahahahaha! We'll try harder next time Yaisum. ;0)

[@yaisum]

+That Pedal Show Truly, a really enjoyable vid and very interesting. Cheers...I was going to say, it would have been useful to have one of you shouting whilst playing to understand how loud they are, but at 16.38 Rick Astley (apologies don't know your name) says something and no sound comes out his mouth at all...so quite loud then.

[@BV_Beve]

+That Pedal Show Great vid as always guys. With big sound, loud sound as spoken about. Where would this place something like the Tone King's with the ironman II attenuator ? and pedals and tones, without blowing the walls down? Do you think power scaling like this does work? and does it need to be power scaling from 45 watts? Or do you really still end up with a similar sound from a small (in terms of power) 'bedroom level' amp?

[@benbutterworth7584]

+yaisum Rick Astley!

[@ThatPedalShow]

+benbutterworth Never gonna give you up baby. FFS. Mick

[@tophatter74]

Wow..... This vid should be issued to every guitar player worldwide as a PSA. This vid gave more amp knowledge than 20 yrs worth of guitar magazines! U just made ur mark guys! Cheers.

[@scblds7496]

You guys are really the best! I cannot believe how fortuitous this episode is as I've just traded a much too loud for my needs 60 watt Fender...(got a sweet 72 champ and a semi hollow body; not bad)and have convinced my lovely bride of 28 years that I just "must" build a larger amp-but not as large as what just left the house. After your show, I've settled on a Tweed Deluxe Kit. Thanks again so much, y'all really do the guitar community a great service. Please keep up the good work!

[@DaveStejna]

Great video guys. Love that there's a channel devoted to such guitar-centric topics but done in such a thoughtful and methodical way. Excellent production standards as well. One of my fav KZbin channels by far. Keep up the great work. Nice to see other people who share the same intense passion for all things guitar-tone related.

[@ThatPedalShow]

Thank you Dave, very kind of you to say. Thanks for watching!

[@bassheadjazz2708]

cool video, very entertaining. I get the concept behind demonstrating loudness, but why the hell wouldn't you wear earplugs?

[@HPPrintervx4p5q]

Murry In Arizona oh shet

[@lynetteaylsworth4739]

@@Murry_in_Arizona Dang, you mean that these: store.davidclark.com/hearing-protectors/model-9an-2-06504g-03 are inadequate? I guess I will be wanting the Helmet plates then.

[@lilsponge777]

That AC10 sounded great at the end there. What an amazing comparison. I think for me the feel of the air moving makes you think it's a bigger better sound but in actual fact once it's miced you are losing elements of that feel you get in the room. Especially noticeable going to in-ears.

[@attackofthepacifists]

This video has been very helpful. I recently started playing electric again after about a decade of playing solely acoustic guitar. I have a friend who builds amps and this has helped me get to a point that I can describe what I'm looking for in terms of how my tone and volume need to correlate.

[@blue_mountains28]

Thanks guys! I had asked questions on head room in the past and you nailed it here. I lately dropped from 100w - 50w now here comes 25w thanks again!

[@andrewanderson3746]

as usual the enthusiasm you guys have for good sound was contagious and inspiring. I think I'll stick with my 15 watt Vox after all.

[@reviewforthetube6485]

Drew A def man thats all you need yoy can play out anywhere with it and you xan get a 2×12 cab for it and it actually does get lo uder and thats crazy but yeah stick with the 15 I actuallly like the tone of the 10 and 15 better then the 30 anyways I own a 10 and can play out with it I love it and its very loud for the wattage I love using it no need for a 30 and now you can mic anything up so it really doesnt matter as long as you have a good tone

[@ricardosiahaan5287]

band in the 50s use 15 watt amp for live in tv

[@filipeventura2729]

@@reviewforthetube6485 Could i get some info on combining an ac 15 with a cab?

[@reviewforthetube6485]

@@filipeventura2729 sure what information are you wanting? What kind of cab are you looking at?

[@filipeventura2729]

@@reviewforthetube6485 Apreciate the quick reply! Well any really, im torn betweeen a ac15 going for 470 with a greenback or a ac30 with 2 greenbacks for 600, im afraid in some time ill need a cab if i get the 15 so looking for any information or experience someone had, on the best way to do it Thanks!

[@passenger128]

Very informative and well presented, thank you! (:

[@Stev0BabaGhanoush]

When Mick jumped in with the tasty Hendrix riff... Good lord. That Strat / AC30 / Tumnus combo is unbelievable.

[@pickledblues]

I think this is the most informative video for guitarists on KZbin. People get so obsessed with the the idea that amazing tone=high wattage. The best sounding amp I ever owned was a 64 VibroChamp

[@sinjon]

Dan’s Tele might be the best sounding tele I’ve ever heard

[@marcuskruse1]

Please do a video about various low wattage amps and what overdrive pedals to use with them to get your sound (sound of pedal vs pedal pushing power tubes). That would be really great for us bedroom players.

[@jameswayland2339]

I recently picked up an Ibanez tube screamer amp , it’s a great little amp . All tube ,6V6 /12AX7 ,switchable 5/15 watts , and it has the 808 circuit on the front , and a Celestion seventy 80 10 in. It was less the 400 American . Great little amp.

[@revolve830]

I second that. Very confusing to decide on an amp for apt practicing. Tube amp with pedals recommendations. Thank you.

[@kobyrowton9965]

Love micks playing, always a joy to listen him! Wish he'd play more on these videos...

[@maxsalasr]

You guys are masters! I love this video. I compared two amps, a 15 watt and a 30 watt. The 15 watt was nearly as loud as the 30watt but it had less head room and went into overdrive quicker. I do use clean sounds with chorus still and mild overdriven sounds, so I still need headroom. The 30 watt is more than enough for me, at around 4 or 5 gives me enough body and compression for my pedals to shine and shape the tones. This video clarified a lot of the tone quest I had and I'm happy I could listen similar to what you tested here! Thanks guys!

[@elmalo551]

My favorite amp is a 5-watt 57 Fender Champ.

[@hutchfromba]

I Just subscribed to your channel guys. Thanks for all the info and well done videos . Blues On....

[@joshuapdavis74]

Your sheer musical joy is buoying. Love you guys. Top shelf stuff.

[@rickgreene407]

Brilliant. Helps with some problems I've had lately getting an AC30 and Deluxe Reverb to co-exist with the rest of the band. I had considered a compressor to deal with the huge dynamic range, but now I see that pushing the amp harder with pedals at lower amp volumes is probably the way to go. Why didn't I know this already? I love how you guys touch on things that should be obvious but are often overlooked.

[@JamesRussoMillas]

I have a Boogie Mark V, and literally the best thing about it is the ability to run my Cleans at 100 watts for amazing clean loudness but the Drives at 50 watts. If you can buy an amp with per-channel wattage switching, DO IT.

[@ThatPedalShow]

+James Russo Nice! I've been a Boogie fan for years James. Mick

[@JamesRussoMillas]

That Pedal Show Awesome, Mick. Out of curiosity, do you ever find the Mesa doesn't sound half as good quiet as when it's turned up. I feel like it's the Blackshadows...

[@ThatPedalShow]

Yep! It's also the OT, the rest of the circuit, the valves, the cabinet resonance.... That's why a purpose designed small amp will make you smile more than a big amp turned down in my opinion.

[@JamesRussoMillas]

That Pedal Show Agreed!

[@benbutterworth7584]

I absolutely agree. I love my Mark V. Cleans with a tiny boost and lift from my Rockett Archer sounds amazing. Recommended by Dan. Although the Mark 1 channel on 90 watts is stunning too - given the chance! I may be wrong, but I think when using the master volume on the Mark V there is a capacitor in there that is essentially acting like an attenuator? You can switch out the master volume and use channel volumes and it jumps in volume massively. Is that right Mick/Dan?

[@TomLaios]

Didn't know Brian Posehn played such good guitar.Metal by Numbers indeed.

[@docbobster]

What a great video! I've been playing through amps for 40+ years but I learned loads from this demo.

[@bodiex1508]

This is probably the most informative video on amps I've ever seen. Thanks guys!

[@slimjimmypage]

Keep in mind that decibels are logarithmic. A 6 dB increase could be quite significant depending on what you're increasing by 6 dB. Good video though! I didn't realize how small a volume difference higher wattage makes.

[@utubehound69]

+slimjimihendrix Put a 5150 120 watt head & Cab up next to AC 30 the PV will eat the AC 30 before you get past 3 & 1/2 on the PV vol.

[@JamesSilvers18]

Watchman4u Wait until you play guitar through a modeling preamp into a bass rig as a power amp. 800+ solid state watts pushing mid range frequencies into a 4x12 could kill a small child. My own 6505 has been chained into my friends peavey bass combo (around 400 watts) and we bout shat our pants you could use the fucker as a fan it pushed so much air

[@applemanuk]

Sometimes I use a Fender Blues Junior at 15 watt or a DRRI at 22 watt when gigging and I have never struggled for volume.

[@christianscazzieri]

Can't really say whether this is one of the best guitar-related video on YT or not, but it certainly is one of the wisest.

[@EmilioConesa]

Great show guys! I have a Seymour Duncan Convertible 100watt from 1981 It's been recaped and works perfectly. There's a dial that controls wattage from 5-100 watts. Along with the ability to change the preamps modules and several cabinets this amp can morph into many different beasts. Thanks for this discussion

[@charlesjohnson8259]

To me, since I also run the sound for my band, I find the best overall band sound is minimal stage volume and guitar amps on the sides of the stage pointed at the band just loud enough for the drummer to hear (to avoid having guitars in the monitors), mic'ing them, and letting the PA do the heavy lifting. When its just big cranked amps behind us pointing at the crowd, they only get the full range of the guitar tone to the people directly in front. Mic'd through the PA with the wide-dispersion horns, you get a more even sound over a bigger range of the audience. It takes some getting used to, but the overall mix of the band sounds way cleaner.

[@userPrehistoricman]

or you could just fucking blast it on both

[@mal2ksc]

Also, when you just turn up on stage, you cut the heads off the people in the first couple rows and still don't reach the back. The house PA is built specifically to give more consistency over the entire audience, including putting delay on the speakers further from the stage to keep everything in phase. If you have a good house system to run through (granted, you don't always), you're much better off doing so than not, and using it for the majority of your actual power. Then you can just dial up your amp to where it sounds best, not necessarily where it sounds adequately loud.

[@baronvonchickenpants6564]

Charles Johnson we only sing through the PA all that micing is a pain in the arse

[@Jpat1027]

Speaking as a guitar player as well as a live tech I am 100% with you! People aren't always mindful that the endgame isn't what comes out of their amp cab but what comes out of the PA. The whole set benefits from a well thought out and balanced guitar rig , a bad one can break otherwise well thought out arrangements.

[@thevernon48]

Wow! Thanks for a fantastic video. Once again, it's great to watch your videos and learn something new every time - most definitely the most interesting guitar related channel on KZbin. Please keep up the hard work, it's a pleasure to watch! I'm really hoping for a similar test (bedroom to stage) that brings transistor amps and digital modelling into the equation, and how they all react with pedals at different volumes. It's not new territory, but it would be great to hear it from your point of view and level of detail. Other than the BluGuitar demo, I can't recall a video from you guys discussing transistor &/or digital amps. There must be a reason for this and it would be great to hear why.

[@ThatPedalShow]

Hi Chris. The short answer is because given the choice, neither Dan nor me would use a transistor or digital amp over a good valve amp. We've been playing valve amps for over 50 years between us and everything we know is based around them. So we have a balancing job to do with TPS. On the one hand we only do stuff that we love and believe in, and on the other, we should be doing stuff that's of most relevance to people who give us their viewing time. But valve vs tranny vs digi seems like something people would love to see, so consider it on the list! Thank you for watching!

[@thevernon48]

+That Pedal Show I totally appreciate where you are coming from, with you and Mic both growing up with and developing your guitar sound and playing styles using valve amps. Being born in '91 and starting my guitar journey in the early 00's, I, and I'm sure many of my generation and younger generations, have grown up with transistor amps and digi amps. This may be why, especially on the KZbin platform which (arguably) is accessed more by younger generations, you get lots of requests asking for comparisons of tube vs tran vs digital - because many of us have more experience with transistor and digital than we do with Valve. As a result, opening the door to Valve amps and how they differ is a steep learning curve (which thanks you you guys is becoming a lot easier to understand).

[@ThatPedalShow]

We've just made a decision Chris. Or at least I have (Mick). We're going to make this video with a 'live' audience. We'll find a room somewhere, invite some people along and do the comparison. We'll film it, interview the people on what they thought and make that the video - cool?

[@thevernon48]

+That Pedal Show Very cool! I look forward to seeing the video

[@Robstafarian]

+That Pedal Show Please, wait until I can afford the trip!

[@Nightbreed82]

New subscriber here. GREAT channel! As a pedal nerd, of course I love it, but the attention to detail that you put into the quality of your content is noticed and appreciated. Keep up the good work guys.

[@GermanGallardoMusic]

By far, my favorite show on KZbin. Cheers, guys!

[@yoyo19831983]

do a power soak amps vs master volume amps! great job!

[@mattyk112]

even attenuators and power scaling could be added in there!

[@yoyo19831983]

+Matt Kelaart yeah!

[@mudsh4rk]

I'd love to see an episode on deliberately mismatching speakers (type, not impedence, of course) in amps, I've always loved the sound of a 2x12 with two differently voiced speakers in it.

[@chadmorral1326]

Ol' Zircon i have 2 music-man 2x12 cabs from the 70s. I've ran them with 1 70s Eminence OEM speaker w/ an old Pyle Driver speaker, OEM w/ Eminence Texas Heat, 2 OEMs, 2 Texas Heats, a Texas Heat w/an Eminence Governor, and finally OEM w/ Governor. I've sound tested them all in a day to find what best fits my needs. It was a blast to do and super interesting to see how the combinations worked. I was really amazed at how different the sound was from right in front of the speakers compared to about 10 feet away.

[@MrCrapheadist]

Yeeeees!

[@OzziePete1]

Next video will be a review on hearing aids? Oticon vs. Phonak vs. Siemens? Seriously though guys, I do hope you were wearing some sort of hearing protection.

[@paddyclint]

Comment of the day!

[@DanEtch]

Great vid again guys. Spent the past couple of months watching the vids (the things you discover whilst feeding your newborn son at 2am) and my sound has improved immeasurably thanks to tips gleaned from you. Thanks guys! I'm in the middle of modding my MXR Phase 90 (fairly recent block logo) as I don't like the weird mid boost it has through any of my amps, and during my research was struck by how many modded pedals there are out there. I note you have used a modded Blues Driver in the past, and wondered if there was a possibility on a kind of shoot out between the stock pedals and the souped up shenanigans at some point so we can see/hear the differences? Keep the food for thought coming guys! It's really appreciated!

[@dakn0x]

I play everywhere with my Blues Jr. I even played the Glasgow Barrowlands with it. Thanks to a good sound guy, PA and monitors etc. it done the job.

[@ThatPedalShow]

+David Knox Great stuff David. Jeff Beck may very well agree with you!

[@onixtheone]

R.I.P Dan and Mick's ears

[@OriginalEyeball]

11:37....I made that mistake.Could'nt get it past volume 2 on half power mode :-D

[@Alileopil]

This is an amazing video. I've made that mistake whereas I bought a vox valvetronix series 100+ and it disappointed me. I guess because the compression wasn't there and when I used my pedals, it just wasn't the sound I wanted. I settled with a Roland jazz chorus-40 with a great clean amp, more ideal for the sound I wanted. Thanks guys! This video just blows the myth for me (or reveals the obvious), thanks again, don't stop these videos! Thanks!!

[@michaela9817]

I always learn so much watching your shows. Next Friday can't come soon enough.

[@hutchfromba]

You said, "You can get a great sound out of any decent valve amplifier, regardless of wattage.". I think that is only true if you have a FX send/rec on your amp, which you don't normally find on very low powered tube or SS amps. Blues On....

[@ThatPedalShow]

Interesting Hutch - you don't think the AC10 sounds good?! Thanks for watching!

[@hutchfromba]

+That Pedal Show I think it sound great and is a very good amp but varying tonal qualities while playing is greatly enhanced when you can ad a delay or echo, any time based modulation type pedal after the preamp section. Blues On....

[@ThatPedalShow]

Once again Hutch I have to disagree. All the classic guitar tones come from amplifiers without effects loops. Vintage HiWatts, Marshalls, Voxes, Fenders, Orange, the list goes on and on. Check out some of our videos on delay going into the front end. Effect loops can be great but great time certainly doesn't rely on them

[@hutchfromba]

That Pedal Show True, but they go into a mixing board with effects in the mixing board and the software as well. That's why studio albums are usually preferred over live albums.. I fully admit that it is All subjective and personal preference. I prefer amps with a great, great clean, a gain, post volume and master volume with a FX loop.

[@MrIkesimba]

Watts isn't about volume, it's about headroom

[@dehibler4811]

Not exactly. Headroom is only defined on where an amp starts to break up. Here's an analogy for you. You have a car that goes up to 100 miles an hour. However realistically, how often do you go 100 miles an hour? Not very often. You're usually cruising around 35 - 65 miles an hour. This is NOT hitting it's full potential. And as a metal player, I've found out THAT SUCKS. The tubes are not being driven nearly has hard as they should be. Headroom differs from amp to amp. No 2 amps have the EXACT same headroom. Peavey 6505? Very low headroom. Tubes start to break up around 3 - 4 on the volume. This is why 6505's have been metal gods from the start. It was NOT the mesas, it was NOT the oranges, it was NOT the Marshalls. And from quite a few years of experience I can tell you this much. Lower wattage = bigger, brighter, more defined sound. Higher wattage = Less sound, but able to project outwards more (If even given the chance to let it) I currently play out of a Hughes & Kettner Tubemeister 18 30th anniversary, and the other guitarist uses a Panama Inferno 100. Guess who's been told a number of times they sound amazing and actually cut through? Not him I'll tell you that much.

[@DXIV12]

Even with pedals?

[@vexguine]

blablabla... kesimba is right. Volume are measured in decibels, not watts. a 40 watt amp generates only 6 dB more of volume than a 10 watt amp. Thats because the curve is logaritmic, not linear. @@dehibler4811

[@ballsrgrossnugly]

@@vexguine I am about to make comment about this on the video, but in high school physics, which I loved, we learned that the scale is logarithmic because that is the way our ears perceive differences in SPL (Sound pressure level) so measuring in this way, 3dB actually SOUNDS twice as loud to our ear. Seems like this is a fact that these videos are leaving out!

[@ballsrgrossnugly]

@@vexguine I have found an article that explains this far better than these guys do, from a physics standpoint, generally you need a little over 3x the electrical power to produce 10dB more SPL which will result in 3dB increase in the perceived loudness. The log scale is not being used correctly in this video as far as I can tell.

[@Slears]

This is with no doubt the best channel on youtube..I`ve learned soooooooo much from you guys..so thx a lot

[@thirrteenthirrteen5528]

That was simple, down to earth and in terms that I could understand. Thanks for helping me confirm my AC10 purchase. Keep up the good work and better tones.

[@JeremySheppard]

Sound is also logarithmic and, depending on how you're measuring it, it either doubles at 3dB or 5dB(depending on exchange rate.) So, every 3 decibels louder, you're doubling actual volume.h --a Sound Level Meter salesman.

[@davek1919]

Another way of explaining it is that you need twice the power (watts) to get a 3 dB increase. And, 3 dB is roughly the smallest increase that is perceptible by the human ear......

[@robertrosejr1]

Played for more than 30 years live. The best tone I ever had live was with 2x12 combo amps with a pre amp pushing it. 1x12 are too thin and boxy no need for more than 40 Watts ever I had a 130 watt amp not much different with 2x12s. Need that fullness with a drummer in my opinion

[@ricmel8008]

With all my playing I think a 30 watt tube is the best amp. Not sure what wattage that is in solid state.

[@stirlingstark1983]

I have a slightly different opinion, played a bunch of live shows myself and I found a 20 W (tube) single 12 does a great job when micd up with a shure SM57. Getting a good signal to your mixer and then out to your floor monitors allows you to not need to use the amp as a monitor and cuts down on stage noise. Different strokes different folks Keep on rockin!

[@heybuddy6794]

I play 90% of my set through a big lovely twin, choppy funk tones for days, but when its go time i hit a switcher and fly off through a cranked jtm45! I am living my actual best life :D

[@williamblake6612]

Maybe your best video so far. Would love to see a show discussing cabinets that are isolated and the best way to mic them. Thanks for a great show!

[@MrBingping]

My buddy always teases me about having too much power. He gigs with a marshall class 5 combo, and my mains are a twin reverb and a 59 bassman 410. It is very rare that I can get either really breathing, but when I can, good lord does it sing.

[@MrBingping]

That being said, my other buddy uses a jtm45/100 and a hw59slp, so I'm not that loud lol

[@tonepimp1431]

+MrBingping My buddy uses a 6505 120 watts Head and i use a Blackstar ID tvp 100 and i cut through the mix (band volume) with only 40% of my volume while he needs like 60% to be heard

[@MrBingping]

+Tone Pimp1 does he scoop the mids? That's the quickest way to negate volume

[@tonepimp1431]

yup just that XD and uses a lot of treble i tell him every week that,thats what keeps him out of the mix but well he doesnt understand he thinks it is a volume problem

[@spicecrop]

Another 59 Bassman owner here. Yeah it's a bit loud but sweet lord it sounds good cranked.

[@tk4x431]

More watts = More Fun Just like the gain equation: More Gain = More Metal

[@pedrostorms]

I'm the happiest man, since you've been doing this sort of videos! Thank you!! 🙏

[@thehunter99091]

I'm loving the science and you two breaking down the complex stuff behind the amps :) I'm still learning about these things and your videos are really helpful and not to mention, funny and the licks ain't half bad either. Great job as usual guys :)

[@TheJnastyinsideyou]

This demo made me by a a reissue AC10!

[@ericgl182]

Jordan Kent are you happy with it?

[@TheJnastyinsideyou]

Yes, it sounds great in my bedroom.

[@Darthmaller]

Ever gigged it? How'd it do? thinking about doing the same

[@jgharding2]

Dudes! Great video, but please get some earplugs in, I'm worried for your hearing! :O

[@ThatPedalShow]

+J G Harding no doubt that both of us will have suffered some hearing loss over the years JG. You can't hear the amps properly with plugs in though. We'll have a bigger room one day. Maybe with some screens. :0)

[@jgharding2]

+That Pedal Show Ah commiserations, you're missing out on some beautiful dog-whistle symphonies...

[@maxmustardman298]

Sorry, what did you say ?

[@fender0fx]

Really great take on volume vs. strength vs. tone. Especially applicable when you're sending all your sound through a PA anyway.

[@rentonharper673]

Hi Guys! As Daniel mentioned in this video about bedroom tones, I own a Blackstar HT stage 60 (2x12) and it sounds pretty good for home use. I also have a Roland Micro Cube and it sounds incredible with a Wampler pinnacle running into the clean sound. It's just better for home use for me, It's controllable and sounds huge! Love the video as usual guys!

[@GeoAl09]

Ah i see. So if you want to get a nice creamy compressed sound it would be easier to do so with a lower wattage amp because you would be reaching it's "peak" sooner than say a 200 watt amp which has more headroom.

[@ThatPedalShow]

+GeoAl09 bingo ;)

[@tonyz4292]

How about an attenuator through the Mesa? Does that solve the buyers problem of "do I want high wattage amp or something more practical?"

[@ThatPedalShow]

+Anthony Ziomek If you can only have one amp, then yes Anthony. But a bit like a do-it-all guitar, why would you want that? I'd much rather have a Strat, Tele, Les Paul, 335, Junior, Gretsch //and// a Ricky. Same with amps. The more it does, the more you're compromising each one of those things in my opinion. But yeah, if you've only got space for one amp, get a swiss army knife type!

[@tonyz4292]

10-4 roger that! I've had a ac 15 for years now- cash flow has been pretty low but finally going up- thinking of getting a tone king imperial- seems like its pretty versatile- any thoughts?

[@ThatPedalShow]

Mick here - I've loved every Tone King Amp I've ever played. Um, except for the one that looks like a TV, the Falcon (lots of people do love it). The Sky King is magic too, but do try them alongside a Victory V40 and some decent pedals.

[@tonyz4292]

thanks for the suggestion much appreciated! you guys ever try the bogner pedals with the Neve transformer? I got my hands on the harlow and the wessex and they literally brought my single coils to LIFE- if you know any info on what makes those transformers so different from others- please share- very interested

[@documentingordinarythoughts]

hey Mick, which pickups do you have on your strat ? it sounds great !

[@bwall615]

This video/topic could not have been better timing. I'm about to pick up yet another amp, and have been debating two models based on wattage. My question is answered. Thanks!! Great as always.

[@jordanpezzimenti6617]

You guys are brilliant! So helpful and saved me so much stuffing around countless times with your videos.

[@hobbyknight9962]

I wish amplifier companies would stop using wattage and start using decibels to talk about how loud an amp is.

[@michaelwoods9005]

Knights of the Hobby Table except there can be a huge difference between just one number to the next, so it wouldn't really tell you anything useful

[@jakefrancis9521]

What about the band? Do you cut through (i.e. can the other band members hear you on stage). Tone is one thing, but being heard onstage is another.

[@ThatPedalShow]

That's all to do with frequencies Jake. Volume is certainly a big part of it, but getting the right midrange and presence is really key to cutting through. It's one reason guitar players like Tube Screamers and Klon-types so much for boosts. Likewise if you've ever been to a metal gig and wondered why the guitars sound mushy and indistinct despite the 150-watt Rectifiers (or 8 million watt AxeFX). It's all in the EQ.

[@ThatPedalShow]

Not all metal gigs, we should clarify! Some of those sounds are monstrously mighty! Some...

[@jakefrancis9521]

+That Pedal Show thanks for the response. but do you think you can overcome a squishy amp with a mid boost, or is a more powerfull amp necessary (for cleaner styles of music) in some circumstances?

[@jakefrancis9521]

+jake francis btw I love squishy low watt amps, but my experience is they don't always cut through for the band. That said I've never tried using an aggressive mid boost with them.

[@micktaylor8350]

You'd need to take away some bass. Low frequencies take more power to amplify than high ones. A Tube Screamer will do that - remove some bass and add mids. It can help the power amp a little bit by relieving it of some of the bottom end, ergo less power taken up by the bottom end, ergo more power for the mids and highs. More clarity. A graphic EQ can work in this regard too.

[@zsoltdubravcsik2750]

Great video. Thanks Mick and Dan! I asked your opinion a few months earlier about a Two Rock Studio Pro amp and the differences between the 35 and 50 W versions. This video explains a lot to me, however I've bought the 50 W version since then and I'm absolutely happy with it. Thank you guys again! Zsolt (from Hungary)

[@hoosierdaddy2308]

I used to own a 70's or early 80's PEavey amp that had 2 x 12' scorpians as speakers and was so loud it would kill small animals. That thing just got louder with a boost as you state here, but I needed distortion for a lot of the music I played, so I used a Boss Overdrive with overdrive cranked, etc, and level the same. That said, I liked the sound of a LP straight into a 50 wattish Marshall cranked and use my volume knob to control the cleaning up the signal, etc,. Great video's. Love your technical stuff and the way you explain it. Tim

[@thelampshades4656]

I play small venues and I'm turning up an AC30... Yeah. I'm that guy.

[@ThatPedalShow]

+The Lampshades Yes! We love you. :0)

[@utooberblooper]

so,not getting any call backs then?

[@Onedarknight]

...and that's why I don't go to local shows anymore.

[@happyhappy85]

I mean ive played small venues with a 100w Marshalls and ive seen people play small shows with 200w orange stacks. Its not unheard of lol

[@vexguine]

Magic numbers: bedroom: 5 watts - 1x 12 speaker studio: 15 watts - 1 x12 speaker bars: 50 watts - 2x12 speakers stages: 100 watts -4x12 speakers why? because monitors suck... you wanna listen from your amps and speakers. Projection of sound is a sound guy problem. Cover the drummer and listen to yourself. You can't go wrong with theses numbers.

[@PapaWheelie1]

vexguine - so 120w and 8x12 is too much for my bedroom? I’ll be the judge of what’s too much (or little) in my bedroom! But yes it’s too much, I moved it to the living room.

[@vexguine]

@@PapaWheelie1 volume is mesured in decibels, not watts or speaker inches. My numbers are based on the subjective concept of "air moving" and not the decibels produced by speakers (because they can't produce any) You can have your 8x12 projecting the same amount of decibels as a 1x12, but the perception of loudness is different (why? lot of factors like effectiveness of speakers measured in db per W/metre and the frequencies covered). Nobody said you can't be your own judge. If you know what works for you, let the guys that don't know have some simple info to decide. My magic numbers are industry standard numbers and if 8x12 works for you in your bedroom, ok. But I can assume you use them for aesthetics (implanted in your brain by decades of marketing) and not acoustics.

[@PapaWheelie1]

@@vexguine - I'm not disagreeing, your chart is totally spot on. A full stack is way too much for a house. But it is fun... Plus I hate my neighbors.

[@chrisdee5032]

I have a bar in my studio and my local bar has a stage in it. How should I handle these situations.

[@vexguine]

@@chrisdee5032 you can't. you are stuck. maybe give up on guitar and start playing the flute?

[@hotrats1040]

Fantastic, practical and useful stuff as usual! I would have loved to hear the Lazy J 20 since I've listened to all you videos (several times :-) and now have good points of reference there. Keep em coming, you are absolutely amazing.

[@n8dawg85]

Having owned and gigged with 15, 22, 30, 40, 45, 50, 60, & 100 watt amps. I find between 22 & 30 watts is the most flexible amp power range to handle MOST gigs. Of course speaker efficiency is a big factor. My current amp is a 68 custom deluxe reverb. At 22 watts it handles most large venues incredibly well. I think the Celestion V type speaker must play as much of a role as the amp!

[@robertrosejr1]

Ndawg85 agreed however something magical about a 30 or 40 watt 2x12. Much fatter tone than a 1x12 forget cutting the mix

[@jzac77]

I cranked my 100w marshall in my bedroom and my light vibrated and fell out of my roof

[@hosoiarchives4858]

They are designed for arenas not bedrooms lol

[@redduketeleman]

that's not the amp. it's just a dodgy light fitting :) lol

[@LiveToPlayGuitar]

Dingo Johnson way way back in the 70’s I had this monster Sun amp with a 4x12 cab in my bedroom...it was loud as Fock...one day I cranked it, hit a chord and my bong vibrated off the amp head and hit the floor spilling bong water everywhere...🎸🔊🎶🤘🏻

[@joshmuz9018]

Man fully cranking my 20 watt shook the entire foundations of the house with every chord

[@alexmurphy5289]

My 10 watt KT88 blackstar can shake the walls of my apartment at 12:00... It's insanely loud for 10 watts

[@RussellJones144]

I use a Blackstar Artisan 15 and have never had it higher thanabout 10 o'clock on the volume at a gig, it would just swamp the stage volume and kill all the stage mics and ruin the overall band sound. At low volume it is spikey sounding, but at rehearsal/gig volume it sounds full and on the verge of breakup and perfect for gain stacking and volume riding ... We did turn up at a gig once (about 120 capacity venue) and another band turned up with a full 100 Watt stack. The guy ruined the sound of his band and the 120 all left for the bar! In the end if a guitarist is a part of a band they can't see it as a power or volume competition, the ego has to give way to the whole band sounding good.

[@JimKiralfy]

+Russell Jones I've got the same amp (Blackstar Artisan 15) and find exactly the same. It easily keeps up with an un-mic'd drummer, even though from about 11 o'clock onwards it doesn't get much louder, just fatter and bigger sounding. I do think the Artisan 15 is a bit of an oddity (in a good way) in this regard. It sounds less like a "small amp", and more like a "big amp that just happens to only be 15 watts". Recorded you could easily mistake the sound it makes for a big cranked Marshall. I used to have a Laney VC15, and it definitely sounded like a "small amp" (boxy midrange, not much headroom, didn't really cut through). The Artisan 15 in comparison sounds big and full, even though it's the same wattage as the Laney. I'm sure the Artisan 15's big transformers (for a 15 watter), 12-inch Greenback and large ply cabinet all play a part here. Just goes to show that there really is a difference between a "big" sound and a loud one.

[@RussellJones144]

I find the same, I used to play a Fender Blues Jr and that sounded much more boxy and not nearly as powerful, despite the same wattage. I wouldnt use the Artisan at home as it just doesnt sound as nice at low volume, but for gigging or recording it's brilliant!

[@EdsonOchoa]

Cool video! I play once a year with my jobs band. Last year I bought a Tone King Imperial MKII, I was surprised that I did not need to set it much louder than on my home office (Attenuator on -15 dB). Sound guy was extremely happy, and volume on stage was clear and pleasant :) That said, our drummer uses electric drums, so the stage volume is much easier to control :)

[@bloosman1]

I have been using a '04 jcm 2000 dal 100 1/2 stack since I got it. I had an occasion to play a jam session where everyone had 30w combos... It inspired me to get a Marshall Astoria Dual, Yes!! Quality of build really makes a huge difference. And it is LOUD!

[@lawsonvaughan2278]

What wattage is good for gigs

[@ThatPedalShow]

+Lawson Vaughan Did this video not answer that?

[@lawsonvaughan2278]

That Pedal Show not sure it was a lot of info

[@metamaggot]

It depends where you play...if you're playing in squats with no pa or unmiced amps a half stack is good..if it's miced a 15-30 watt tube amp is easily enough

[@BrandochGarage]

:D Hahaha: "the horrible conclusion is you can't just have one amp,"

[@ParaBellum2024]

I've already played that part of the video to my wife. Not sure she agrees, but it was worth a try!

[@coryjohnson1516]

It would be interesting to see a video where you guys compare different wattages of speakers in the same type of amp. Love the channel!

[@benworrell4412]

Great Video. I have a Marshall JTM 60 watt and I just got an Egnater tweaker 15 watt. You guys just pointed me in the right direction in how to utilize them better. thanks!!

[@SamColson4]

And now I need to buy a 100W tube amp...

[@ThatPedalShow]

Sometimes, you just need 100 watts :)

[@LukeJF89]

The 30 watt amp is 20 louder than the 10 watt amp. Thought this was common knowledge?

[@LukeJF89]

And the 100 watt amp is 70 louder than the 30 watt amp and 90 louder than the 10 watt amp. It's amazing that people don't know this.

[@colemcnair5752]

And my amp goes to 11

[@LukeJF89]

My amp goes to 100 because it's 100 watts.

[@LukeJF89]

PeterDad60 - But at the end of the day right before you go to bed my amp is still 99 louder. You can even check the math if you want, 100 - 1 = 99 > 99 louder. You cant argue with math. :)

[@firemarshal2629]

I believe the point is that while they are louder, they aren't much louder.

[@JamesonRadio666]

This video answered most of the questions I had from your last video... you guys are killing it! Seriously great job. Please, That Pedal Show should do a "pedal platform" amp shoot out or (if we're being nice) comparison show. Yes, pedals are best through high watts and good speakers but who does that well? Do amp companies build cabs to work best with their heads? Do they have / need an effects loop? What makes a good effects loop? I think it's perfect for your show AND it's a relatively untouched subject via KZbin. Amps best for pedals... 5 Heads - Your favorite a/o common pedals through a "control" Cab. In a perfect world 5 Heads - 5 Cabs but that show just got real long. Kinda like this message... sorry. Maybe that could be part 2. Haha. 4x12s vs 2x12s, open vs closed back for pt.3! "The Trilogy" That's if you want to close the book on the subject... that you also just wrote. No one else has done it and I can't afford to do it so... please? Ok. I'm done. Thanks for being awesome. Cheers.

[@TheAshkgray]

Thanks, Dan & Mick - this has taught me so much!