What Is A Guitar Preamp & Why Would You Have One? - That Pedal Show

[@nihalnayak5483]

Your channel is so valuable to the guitar community. It is our version of the encyclopedia.

[@nihalnayak5483]

Only thing I would love are timestamps.

[@kevinvandenberg5548]

@@nihalnayak5483 timestamps are in the description!

[@nihalnayak5483]

@@kevinvandenberg5548 Sorry...didn't see them on my phone. Cheers!

[@kevinvandenberg5548]

@@nihalnayak5483 no problem!

[@creationinspired200]

Just got a two notes le clean and ive been struggling to figure out why its so damn quiet this explains a lot lol it needs a power stage

[@cornerstonegear]

If I may, I'd like to spend a couple of words about my Gladio... Ciao, Emilio here... First thing first: it's an Overdrive, it's primarily designed to do saturation, and to do it dynamically well with amp-like response. So why did I call it a Double Preamp if it's an OD? Well, because I wanted to communicate the "amp like feel" which is the core and the main feature of the pedal (even if using the word preamp is not technically proper), and I'm sure the good guys at Benson or Xotic (with the BB preamp) meant the same. Other than this, the Kingsley sounds glorious, and for a good reason: it's a real tube pedal running internally at 230v; at that voltage the tube inside the pedal works properly at its linear region creating all the nice harmonics we love and pushing the Guitar signal to a level that no other device working at 9v could possibly do. That being said, I hope people will forgive my "poetic license" when using this word, but"Double (preampy) OD" sounded terrible to me 😅... And I'm sure to all of you Ciao

[@thierrylecuyer1507]

Well said Emilio, as an owner of the Gladio and pedals like the Broadcast, I agree that they have the touch sensitivity and feel of a good tube amp. Personally I don’t spend too much time on the name but on the sound and the Gladio is a favourite! Great versatile pedal that does it all. So smooth. 💪

[@ThatPedalShow]

Thanks Emilio! I hope everybody understands that we're not being critical here, just that we get a lot of questions asking specifically if certain overdrives can be used as preamps into FX loops. Hope you and the family are well!

[@cornerstonegear]

@@ThatPedalShow oh yes absolutely, you've been very clear, and I thank you so much cause this video will help me responding the same questions you've been asked a lot about how to use the "preamp pedal" 😅... I just wanted to say the reason why I choose to use the word Preamp even though it's a actually an OD! Other than that, our family is doing great! Today we've just found out that next year, Gabriele will have a little sister/brother! So today it's GLORIOUS day!! 😊

[@karllongbottomguitars9192]

Ciao, don't beat yourself up, Leo Fender called a vibrato a tremolo and a tremolo a vibrato and nobody seems to mind

[@WhatsUpWhitey]

Gladio is on my short list. Keep up the great work!!!

[@GregStraub42]

I used to watch your show every time on the day it came out. I had to deal with an 18+ Drive to deal with a death in the family and have been having issues with depression and trouble finding motivation to play, trying to find an inspiration on what to play, and (due to arthritis) physically having issues playing. Its lead to a pretty awful feeling of depression, especially since usually playing music is a massive help for me when I am feeling this way. I recently watched the video again about Mick talking about dealing with depression and then this video and it has been incredibly helpful. I'm not sure what I am trying to say except: Thank you.

[@ThatPedalShow]

Greg, thanks for being so open about it - I hear you. Mick here. I wish I could give you some advice but both Dan and I know that when you’re down there, the last thing you want is somebody telling you what to feel. So we’ll just say that we’re with you buddy and we know you have it in you to see clearly at some point. All best sir!

[@danbrazieruk]

Being self-aware like this is a big part of the battle. You’ve got this, bro.

[@garybird4062]

Keep going Greg, you are a brave guy! Well said Mick.

[@hitnorcal]

I love this show. Favorite on KZbin. Premium content, years of experience, chemistry between two good dudes and lots of witty humor/banter.

[@ThatPedalShow]

Thank you!

[@211squirrel]

How about a ‘Perfect My Rig’ series where users send in shots of their pedalboards, then you guys recreate and tweak them for maximum awesomeness? Or something like that...

[@EpicStuffMan1000]

that's a fantastic idea

[@ralvknights]

That could be difficult if one has a couple odd pedals. But would be a dream if they could use a similar amp the players uses and then suggest a better amp and test it for all to hear. Oooh yeah.

[@djpgreek]

Yes I was thinking about this same though last week

[@prateekpoddar1890]

Oooh I like that. Could be really interesting if they had a specific problem too. "Hey guys. I love this overdrive and this phaser, but the hum is driving me insane, plus I'm looking to upgrade my delay. Any suggestions?"

[@paullee9125]

lol, i didn't see this comment. I suggested the same thing!

[@jacksonforstman125]

I gotta say, Dan and Mick, I really love you guys. This show brightens up my week. Every week. Thank you for just being you.

[@revenant235]

Jackson Forstman amen to that

[@ThatPedalShow]

Ah bless you sir! Thanks for being part of the fam Jackson!

[@tonybrooks476]

That was one of the most interesting episodes I have ever watched. Perfect. Educational, inspirational and something else that rhymes with that. Brilliant.

[@ThatPedalShow]

Blimey, thanks Tony - hope you are well sir!

[@tonybrooks476]

That Pedal Show my pleasure. Honestly so well thought out and demonstrated. You are the top of your game boyos. Talking of boyos - Bestie at Radioshop has just dispatched my ID63GT pups for my Strat. And I have just picked up a second hand switching unit (Buzz Electronics) to sort out all my tone suck and tap dancing. So gear wise we are very good and I am very excited! Big fella off to Cambridge Uni in a couple of weeks (brains from the mothers side) so big and exciting changes in Brooks household!

[@jonschmidt4686]

I love how this episode simultaneously informs while it educates in a very organic way. Where the watcher/listener is granted the honor of hearing what is being demonstrated as its tested. Huge Kingsley fan myself, that Broadcast is something special too.

[@AndyDemos]

Yes, thanks for taking the time to do this! Alternate title: A BB Preamp is a mighty fine overdrive 😉

[@Formlessrecording]

Can't tell you how much I appreciate the time stamps in the description of every video. I'm sure it can be a pain to type all that in, but it is much appreciated.

[@dylandenney3980]

I can't convey with words how happy it makes me that the Capt. Lee lick has become a meme in the guitar community

[@bluesful]

The clean tones using that stereo power amp were fantastic.

[@TauRiOneill]

Bluesful you misspelled Godly.

[@tcause]

And how...

[@bluesful]

@@TauRiOneill the ambient stuff was indeed. Would love an hour alone with that rig.

[@ralvknights]

So happy to hear Mick and Dan mentioning the great tones modern pedals are conjuring that were simply not available in the 80s rack fxs. That has been my happy discovery and sonic motivation to make music again. We can have better sounds than the crazy expensive Nasa Refrigerators that "lucky" 80s signed artists thought they had. We the "Almost Famous Not Dead Yet Guitar true Hero Dads", we are now kicking major sound asses. We rock in tone. So take that you crazy reverb possed 80s retired single Not Bald Yet Dudes. 50yrs old Dads are kicking your chorusy/delayed beyond cohesion asses.😁 wow.. that felt good.

[@danielbrunner5878]

"Almost Famous Not Dead Yet Guitar true Hero Dads" man... I feel that

[@davemabee5798]

Wow! I'm not dead yet either, let's jam!

[@ralvknights]

@TacoTacoTacoTaco Music is a joy in my life. My work years are not over yet. I try to have happy days one day at a time. I just love composing music and sounds. Been listening to classical music more and more. I also like instrumental electric guitar music. Please accept my apology if my comment about rack fxs. I am sure there are some great rack fxs to be use and enjoyed. Each to its own.

[@ricardorodriguez5549]

@@danielbrunner5878 you too?

[@Zanshin44]

Good dudes hanging out jamming; technical breakdowns and higher level concepts made easy to learn and overall good vibes! As an "old-guy" new guitar player, I find this channel to be an invaluable resource that inspires me to learn and play more! I watch an episode and then spend hours playing/practicing without noticing the time pass by! Muchos gracias!

[@ThatPedalShow]

That’s great to hear! Thank you for being here with us - that it inspires you to play is the best thing possible. Cheers!

[@MarkPritchardGuitar]

Mick i know you prefer playing a Strat but i love hearing you play a Les Paul especially when playing a dirt tone. Have a great day both of you.

[@ThatPedalShow]

I love all guitars Mark! Sure, Strats is home, but any decent vintage-type guitar, I’m happy!

[@weschilton]

@@ThatPedalShow I have to agree, you sound so good on that goldtop. We can tell you like it!

[@gcvrsa]

As far as I am concerned, the only real difference between a preamp and an overdrive is the expected input and output levels (usually a preamp will be capable of higher output), the extent to which it offers clipping (preamps often do not), and the extent of the EQ available (usually preamps have more, and preamps are generally full range, where many overdrive pedals are purposely designed to be not). I don't think you can really compare what a particular pedal sounds like going into an amp's preamp section and what it sounds like going into an amp's power section, because you 're obviously removing all the gain stages and eq stages of the preamp. To judge that pedal accurately, you have to change its settings to hear how well it works in one mode as compared with the other. At the very least, you have to increase the output level, to make up the difference. Once again, lovely to see you building a new rig around the Fifty/Fifty, as the Mesa stereo power amps have long been favorites of mine. I only hope your influence doesn't cause the price of them to skyrocket and the availability to plummet!

[@robertprice5039]

I love Mick's comment "Why would you want a guitar preamp at all". You guys convinced my to run wet/dry, but I will not go stereo rack yet. And yes I am playing bar/brewery gigs, when the Coved situation is under control.

[@aalperuzun]

I've got a tube preamp which i was using for solo acoustic gigs. Last week i tried it into effect loop of my tube amp and plugged my electric guitar into front input of the amp. So chain is guitar, preamp of the amp, extra preamp and power amp. And i liked it. More full sound with extra tubes. I guess im gonna use it that way for a while until someday i say to myself "Why are you carrying this thing with its big heavy transformator/adapter? Keep it simple!". It's always a pleasure to watch you guys. Thank you.

[@BV_Beve]

The Hudson topology is based on those classic preamps in a early RCA Broadcast Consoles initially RCA used their own preamps later people swapped them out for other preamps like Neve . The Kingsley preamps are just glorious!

[@MrFrenchHarp]

This is EXACTLY what I was thinking about w my board!! I am replacing a Kingsley Jouster with the new Maiden D for after all my dirt pedals and then into my two UA reverb/delays and then on into my clean Fargen Blackbird and Germino Club 40!!! ( which both don’t have good pre EQ or pre dirty breakup capabilities.. they are both clean amps at low to medium volumes ) I also have a dual Hudson Broadcast. I appreciate you guys for helping me better understand why I’ve felt I have need this for the last few years. 😊👍🏼

[@lucianodebenedictis6014]

Your "trial and error" approach was fun, but you said what matters in the end: output impedance and eq/filtering. Many overdrive pedals are still somehow lacking in the former, for example the OCD is awful in how it jumps and changes timbre when turning something on after it, reason why the v2 added buffers. Tubes do usually have high output impedance, so i guess the kingsleys have (mosfet?) buffers at the output. About the filtering, again you said it: overdrives usually roll off a lot of treble and maybe boost the mids, while preamps usually scoop the mids thanks to the ubiquitous TMB tone stack. Not that it's always the case, as if we take a tweed fender. In the end it's a design choice based on the use and the sound one is after. Voltage gain is usually not a problem, pedals can get comfortably to line level in most cases, valve preamps have volume control, so you can just tune it to where you need it. Why haven't you turned the pedals all the way up when used as preamps?

[@michael_caz_nyc]

Loved Dan's impression of Carlos Santana @ 30:51. Cleans starting @ 35:13 were hypnotic and absolutely stellar. Guitar tones in this episode . . . were Next Level.

[@stanislavmigra]

Hello, as Ola Englund demonstrated, some "overdrives" sounds way better into FX return. For example Boss Metal zone or Abasi Pathos for some reason sounded way better that way, even if they are not labeled as pre amps.

[@ryanspencerlauderdale687]

TacoTacoTacoTaco Yes! Would LOVE to have Ola on the show.

[@boggeshzahim3713]

I want to see Tosin Abasi on the show to fucking explode Dan's mind with his playing

[@purplewound]

Thanks Dan for those singing beautiful chords in the show. Just made my day.

[@svarthelikoptern]

I can't hear the word impedance without thinking of that "impy dance" thing yous did a while back!

[@joshuafreedman7703]

Raunch BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

[@mattheweastel129]

That power unit with the two preamp set up came across as beautifully pure, bell-like highs, but not at all sterile. Angelic tones!

[@FuzzFace]

I hope this episode gets an update. There’s so much activity in the ampless sphere and it’s not all about modelers. The colourbox v2 probably released after this video but it would be great to know if a pedal like that can act as a true preamp with a guitar power amp.

[@killroy123]

This exactly mirrors my thinking and would love an episode to cover the ground of a pedal board being the preamp section of the amp itself.

[@SoulfulJim1]

That’s a good question!

[@michelmoe]

Hey, guys! Instant favorite this one. So glad you approached this subject. Once I commented about the Mesa/Boogie VTwin and I remember Dan answering he used to have one. I love it for several reasons but oh man, the versatility! It has separate outputs to work as a preamp or an overdrive/distortion pedal. And they work at the same time!!! I use it everywhere and once I had a gig in a bar that had two small amps. I fed one in front and the other on the power input, using only the VTwin and my guitar. One of the best live tones I ever had =D I love it so much I'm working on the prototype to a pedal poweramp to have everything on my board with some options different from what's in the market today and I couldn't be happier. Last but not least, looking forward to seeing the rack episode, it's gonna be legendary!!!! Cheers and thanks for posting this!

[@bluesful]

Imagine if you could get Steve Lukather on to assist you with an 80s rack show.

[@vadlasletta]

Or bob bradshaw himself!

[@filiprogina1753]

OH MY GOD, a hundred times YES! An 80s rack show would be amazing! :-)

[@joshmuz9018]

@@filiprogina1753 with malmsteen in full costume doing his flykicks millimetres from Dan's face while shredding his face off

[@bluesful]

vadlasletta that would be cool too.

[@ThatPedalShow]

Well that would be a dream come true. Would be awesome to hang with Lukather. What a musician!

[@rjroth4869]

Well that really cleared up a lot of things me. Many thanks. And I loved Dan's playing when you added ambience - gorgeous!

[@Auxend]

Simon is a master, that maiden is solid. I remember in other eps he talks about sculpting the output for a power section. How can I make sure I don’t overdrive my “fx loop” pedals (delay/verb)? Aren't most of those looking for guitar friendly levels too? (Rack gear not withstanding ) Is there some sort way other than listening for clipping in the fx? I liked where Mick was going with the question ”what can we look for in specs?” in terms of understanding what to put in the loop?

[@earplugs2024]

I use the Squire in front of ANY of my amps and it's already superb. In the return of the cheap FX loop of my cheap Peavey Classic 30, it makes the amp sound like an old Blackface. No level issue at all.

[@EdgeOfFuzz]

One thing I would love to learn is how you guys keep your sound so quiet. No hum, no hiss. Just right to the tone. Love it.

[@mark.guitar]

38:20 Yes. Do it. You are both exceptionally gifted guitarists. You "impro" a lot. It would be great to hear you collaborate and elaborate on some pre-practiced tonal and harmonic stuff. You may end up producing a live "album" off it. Again. Do it. You have nothing to lose...

[@rolandashdown4903]

Fingers clicked; the first thing that popped into my head were some lyrics sung by Annie Lenox: “Orchestra of Angels.....” Can’t wait to get my Maiden and Constable (+ PageDS + Harlot) in a few weeks... GREAT SHOW CHAPS!

[@dariusliadon]

That Rack Show needs to be a thing! Time to bring out the Lexicons and Eventides!

[@mikehewett4393]

Hi, guys. This was a great session and really useful. A lot of it is intuitive but you guys go beyond that. I have a question/observation I have been pondering for some time. A few years ago, early on in my pedal buying career, I bought a Marshall Vibratrem VT1. (btw, I am ancient - Shads based band in the 60s - classical until the teenies.) I was, to say the least underwhelmed as, if I used the pp9 battery it really didn't do anything. A 9V power supply just about got it working. Eventually, with nothing to lose, I tried it on 12V - revelation! Now I had a pedal that did what it was supposed to do. Recently, when rebuilding with different power supplies, I found I had a 15V supply available so I tried it. The Trem still works as it did but the Vibrato is now more like a Univibe and I like it ( I can get plenty of vibrato with my fingers). I wondered if you had any general comments on varying the voltage of pedals (I am reticent to try 18V). I know some OD pedals sound cool with less voltage - just not the VT1.

[@leeseibert4979]

Can't wait for "That Rack Show"

[@Dug6666666]

Great click bait title if ever there was one.

[@daviddisharoon]

That’s a different show altogether.

[@fchampd4512]

And That Rock Show!!

[@jonnyd6597]

Use caution when Googling that, eh?

[@telecasper]

Ooohhh yeeessss! Let’s bring the huge refrigerators back!!! Let’s go full circle! 😱😃😂

[@BlueSkyDogs]

Another great show gentlemen. I love it when Mick uses the term "full mumbo" my dad's called Mumbo' and I grew up listening to him playing his 60's strat through an original boss od1 into the front of his cranked jcm800. So many happy memories.

[@TheOdditee]

When my preamp amp section died on a gig I got by pretty well with my overdrive AND a graphic EQ into the effects loop return. Was able to get the signal lift I needed and the tone shaping I wanted. No real headroom to speak of though.

[@Grant_Ferstat]

The rack show is going to bring back some nightmares for sure! I remember my Digitech DSP128, SPX90, Programmable EQ and Mesa rig. And I remember how I kept adding individual pedals on the floor next to the midi controller piece by piece for "just that one unique sound" until I was no longer using the sounds in the rack!

[@marco.savini.128]

I was just thinking about buying one, and here you go

[@Jay7Fox]

wow .. and anOther world opens to me !! :D Say, can you plug a preamp (like the kingsley) straight into a P.A. ? like signal path Guitar > wah > OD > Mod > Wet > Kingsley > P..A. what would it sound like ? (instead of having an amp sim, like an Iridium, UA dream 65,...) Thank you :)

[@STRATMAN1969]

Thirty years ago I had a Peavy 2x12 100w combo ,and I could never get any thing past an o.d. sound out of it . Then I read an article in a guitar magazine that showed how to preamp one amp with another one .So I took a little Crate practice amp that actually had a decent hi gain sound ,and put it through that Peavy ,and it was like the heavens opened up instant brown sound. at least to my young inexperienced ears ,don't know if it would hold up next to my rig today. All I know is I've been chasing that tone ever since : )

[@ThatPedalShow]

Cooooool!

[@STRATMAN1969]

@@ThatPedalShow that feeling when you get your first reply from your fav pedal show awesome : D Cheers from Kalamazoo Mi. well 20 miles west but who's counting ha

[@psychoangus]

Hi Guys! Great show! What a sound at 29 mins!! A long forgotten classic but a firm favourite of mine - The discontinued Budda Phatman Tube Preamp. Such a rock tone. And it's purple, which is important.

[@Zwidawurzn]

Very interesting topic, nicely explained! I'm always a bit annoyed when a drive pedal is marketed as "preamp"... because driving the front end of the amp is the Overdrive job imo. I sometimes use a preamp pedal in combination with a poweramp (or poweramp+speaker simulation) to replace my actual amp. Did this with Mooer micro pedals for a while to have the whole amp with fx-loop on my board everything "pre-wired", just plugging guitar and speaker cable into my board.

[@philfernandez9939]

Light bulbs were turning on in my head during this episode. This explanation of pre-amps has really cleared things up for me. When I was thinking of getting a Victory Kraken preamp, it makes sense how it works in conjunction with my amp. Thanks so much for this episode!

[@ThatPedalShow]

Yes! The V4 Kraken is a very cool thing indeed! And definitely IS. a preppier preamp. Nice!

[@BadMotivator66]

We all know the best preamp is a metalzone

[@davidrustad2084]

I've now watched Dan's little open mouth point move before the play-in kicks in like six times. Can't say what it is, can't say why it is, it's just perfect. Coffee nearly came out of my nose. Keep pointing, Dan. Nobody on Earth is better at it. Also great show.

[@psychoangus]

Dan, when you mimed holding onto Yoda's ears like riding a bike, a very wrong image jumped into my head. This says more about me than you.

[@ThatPedalShow]

Hahahahaha

[@pedalgazer7109]

This is awesome for all sorts of reasons, but one is that you are doing us all a real service. Many of us have probably wondered if this could be done- running separate pedal type preamps into a power amp- but the sheer cost of running these experiments- and the potentially expensive learning curve of buying preamp pedals that might not be really up to the job is prohibitive. Watching this video could save a lot of people a lot of money and time! As far as the tone goes- when Mick finally gets to the full on "80s" rig I must say it's awesome. Generally you guys always sound amazing- but normally in a "vintage" way. This tone is more, like- "Hi-Fi" - somehow. It's like perfectly sculpted, yet wide and big, with very detailed high end. This is what I would call "modern" guitar sound- but modern is a great way. The other "modern" sound that we often hear on say pop records is the sound of DI guitars into cheesy amp sims- which often sound very small and flat. I have a feeling this episode will inspire a lot of players looking for a stage rig that has that huge, hi fi sound. Thanks guys!

[@andyfilean8496]

I'd let you borrow one of my Chandler Stereo Echoes for your rack rig but I'm scared you'd like it too much and keep it😉😁

[@tyronemckenna2541]

Brilliant show and topic - that Mesa Boogie preamp purchase was inspired. Combining 80's tech with modern pedals has created another intriguing TPS rabbit hole! Bravo!

[@ThatPedalShow]

Yay!

[@JamieStephens5309]

For the " Rack Show" lets not forget one of the original rack mount rigs the Rockman Sustainor Model 100 Preamp By Tom Scholz.

[@TeleCathster]

Very clearly explained! What are your thoughts on using a preamp to give a bit of clarity and sparkle to a digital modeler? On occasion I have to use an AC30 modeler instead of my amp and have found adding a JHS clover which is a clone of the Boss FET preamp the Edge used helps to add some extra sparkle and a little more realism to the modeler and the IR.

[@ThatPedalShow]

Yah, whatever works! I think all digital modellers can benefit from a bit of love up front. It’s all gain staging at the end of the day - how you get that tiny guitar signal up to something glorious. Mick here. We really liked the Clover when we played. In fact we tend to like most simple FET things. :0)

[@williamleddon9923]

The Hi-Fi sound of this Mesa Boogie amp is incredible. Also seems like a lite weight and space saving solution to a wet dry rig which i am currently running using a Blues Jr. and a Deluxe Reverb. But I can't seem to find a current version of this amp or come up with the proper key words to search for an equivalent model. Any help would be appreciated.

[@ThatPedalShow]

Look for Mesa power amp. It definitely is not lightweight!

[@williamleddon9923]

@@ThatPedalShow Thought the one in the video did not have a preamp section. That wasn't explained in the video. Wasn't that the point of using the Kingsley preamp pedals? I can't find one that is just a stereo power amp without a preamp built in.

[@giorgiomusso8558]

@@williamleddon9923 Mesa 20:20, 50:50 or 90:90 are all stereo Power amp with no built-in pre. Otherwise you have Fryette/VHT Power amps, excellent..

[@williamleddon9923]

@@giorgiomusso8558 I Truly appreciate the response Giorgio. I've been trying for days to get this question answered. The only reason I'm chasing this idea of switching to a stereo power amp is that I'm really interested in the Kingsley preamp pedals and am not sure they will sound so great running thru my combos with the preamp sections. I'm currently running a wet dry setup using a 65" Deluxe Reissue with a Tone Tuby Red Alnico and a Blues Jr with a Eminence Cannibas Rex. Have a external EVM-12L Cab also. Any input would be appreciated. Thanks again for your response!!!!!

[@AlbusBand]

Great show per usual boys. Dan almost played Captain Lee’s lick a few times (just needed the little slide up lol). Mick, I never properly thanked you for the feedback you gave me on the broadcast about a year & a half ago; this video reminded me to give you a big thank you as I’ve had it on the board (double switch version) ever since and that bad boy is dynamics in a box. Love ya’s, happy late BDay to Dan and hope everyone is happy and healthy. All my Love, Aaron

[@ThatPedalShow]

Right back atcha Aaron. No thanks required man, we are family here at TPS!

[@tonybrooks476]

Happy Friday TPSers everywhere.

[@dylandenney3980]

Happy Friday to you sir

[@adamsteelproducer]

The Fifty/Fifty is so wide open, I use it for my bass tones! One side drives a deep, clean cab - and the other drives a 4x12 with some grit and distortion when needed. And it's not overbearing in a gig context - at least not compared to the usual 300W SVT!

[@ericedwards5320]

Dan & Mick are the Knights who say, "Au-Tomato-NI!" Great Show; very interesting!

[@peterjessop1878]

Great show. Classic TPS! I use the Broadcast as a pre amp for recording sometimes, but I do run it at 18 volts. Running at 9 volts it just doesn’t have the headroom. One of the main things I think that differentiates preamps to overdrives is transformers in the circuit (broadcast) and also the internal voltages. My old Mesa V twin used to run at 220 volts internally and my two notes preamp also runs that hot. Both are valve powered of course. That I think probably gives them the oomph to push a power amp.

[@noybdi137]

I am still hoping for that "Impedance for Super-Dummies" episode, with all the graphics etc etc..... And in that context, maybe an explanation of levels as well. Some people run synths into guitar pedals - aren't those line level as well? What signal strength is too high for pedals and amps?

[@WendellSexson]

Output impedance needs to be similar to input impedance of the following stage. If you mismatch impedance you'll waste power as heat and get a worse signal to noise ratio. Active gain stages can have differing impedance from the input vs output to better match what is connected at each end. Transformers can also match differing impedance devices such as the output transformer of a guitar amp converting impedance from the power tubes to the speaker.

[@jrn9872]

Dan, this ties into my issues that you commented on last week. I have The Dane > Gladio on my pedalboard. There’s a static noise. I have talked to your partner at The GigRig, and we still dont have solution to the static noise I have. This is all connected to a Bogner Atma combo amp. I will watch this video too this weekend. Thanks for all you do - Jan-Erik

[@lytening79]

Drinking Game: Every time Dan says “MAGIC”, drink. I’m less than half-way through and I’d be hammered

[@haymez]

I'm so glad that I bought my Mesa 2:50 used before this video came out. They are going to be hard to get and expensive now that everyone has heard how gorgeous they sound!

[@TraneFrancks]

Narrator: We interrupt this program for a n00b question from the audience. Me: Sirs, at 30:04, the signal chain is displayed for one of the most glorious guitar tones I've ever heard. I've been contemplating a POD GO, but looking at the blocks that would be required to try to replicate this sound, am I doomed to buying a Helix LT to have sufficient blocks and routing? CAVEAT: I don't have the GDP of a small country to buy all these standalone pedals.

[@tonybrooks476]

Trane Francks I would imagine the full fat Helix would be required sadly! Sympathy with you on the lack of suitable GDP.

[@TraneFrancks]

@@tonybrooks476 Thanks, Tony. This jibes with my own understanding after deeper looks. The POD GO just doesn't offer the number of blocks or flexibility to even get close.

[@jsmith613]

Guitar playing is all about inspiration, for me anyway. The more I connect with a piece of gear, the more it inspires me to be me. We should surround ourselves with things that inspire and entertain us.

[@leohernandezcolonful]

Great show, but I would disagree with modern pedals being better than rack effects from the 80s and 90s. The Lexicon PCM 81, Lexicon PCM42, Lexicon 224xl (300l and others), Eventide H3000, Tri Stereo Chorus, TC 1210, TC 2290 and many others can not be touched by any modern pedals. What happened in the 80s had nothing to do with high end rack gear. everything was over processed and some people didn't use it correctly.

[@ondrejholiencin8555]

Leonel Hernandez exactly, still looking at pedal alternative to my Eventide Eclipse, TC1210 and PCM81. Not even close.

[@justinguitarcia]

I think the main difference is we can actually hear everything better now, or at least more people have access to better sounds then before and perhaps that's what they were getting at. Those bradshaw rigs in the 80s weren't accessible to anyone save professionals yet now it's kind of attainable to anyone since pedals are indeed so good. Just a different thing I suppose, obviously some of those rack units could never truly be recreated by a pedal since those units are entire pieces of kit on their own but with a pedal board and some power amps you can achieve quite a bit

[@ajsrhodes]

Very informative show guys! Back in the late 80's and early 90's I used the Digitech 2112 thru the return loop of a Peavey amp with a solid state preamp, with was lifeless, but had a quartet of 6L6's in the power amp. It was a great sounding rig. I still have it, and every now and again I pull it out for 80's cover gigs.

[@gbarge4]

Aww, come on. Everything between the stereo finger snaps and Dan's "Far out!" was unfair!

[@xdoctorblindx]

I was thinking of selling my Mesa/Boogie Stereo Simul-Class 2:90 power amp this week. You've inspired me to keep it!

[@tonybrooks476]

Don’t let Yoda set up your pedal board order and fine will you be.

[@benjaminsmall8446]

Thanks for talking about what the power amp section does everything makes a lot more sense to me now you guys explained it it perfectly i learned a lot

[@ckjjclan]

This was the shit! Holy free-holies, that sound was awesome (at the end with the Mesa dual amp).... you two are gonna get me freaking divorced at this rate!

[@Rricdiculos]

Man… The sounds from the dual power amp setup was amazing!

[@Anonymous.android]

Mick I feel like your facial hair really adds tone, I think you should keep it

[@ThatPedalShow]

Cheers Will. It definitely helps. :0)

[@TheAlpineProject]

There's not many being made these days but stereo tube power amps are where it's at. I'd definitely be down for a rack show. I've got one that uses 8 EL84's (Peavey) and one that uses 4 EL34's (ADA) and they're both great. I use matching vertical slant 2x12's (ADA) on the left and right. I use an Empress Echosystem and a stereo tremolo right now with plans to add a stereo reverb and modulation. In the center I have a dry-ish amp with a parallel FX loop so I just go from the amp's FX send into my stereo effects then out to the stereo power amp. Nothing needed in the return. So one preamp signal becomes 3 kinda easily. I'm possibly swapping to an amp with a series loop, though, so I'll need an ABY pedal or something like that to pull off the same thing. But I'm not doing wet/dry/wet at gigs really. Not hauling all that crap around when all I need to gig is a 1x12 combo and 5 pedals on a Nano+ board. If I ever start playing the kinda places where I can bust out the Terra 42, I'll give that a go but I like traveling light as well. A nice middle ground amp might be something like that Orange Rocker 32 for wet/dry or stereo or dual mono.

[@hellosailoreffectsofficial]

Did Dan just play the "Captain Anderton" lick 🤔 8:13

[@ThatPedalShow]

It’s not his lick. I’m going to research it. Grumpy Mick here.

[@hellosailoreffectsofficial]

@@ThatPedalShow awesome would be cool to hear were its from originally

[@JohnMonsteur]

And at 5:34...

[@Gonzo2707]

That Pedal Show Merle Haggard‘s „Workin‘ man blues“ features a variant of the Cptn Lee lick very prominently.

[@hellosailoreffectsofficial]

@@Gonzo2707 awesome im going to check that out

[@johnks4002]

Wonderful episode. Now you’ve got me thinking about rewiring my board into a hybrid wet/dry stereo setup.

[@BrandonHoadley]

My wallet cries on Fridays

[@joshmuz9018]

Why it's merely a carrying device. Doesn't rather your own brain cry because your spending your money

[@BrandonHoadley]

@@joshmuz9018 100% :D

[@justinguitarcia]

The rack/power amp thing is super interesting and worth exploring for sure. Sometimes at my space I'll run a wet/dry rig, dry into a tweed bassman and wet into a 200 watt quilter with a rack reverb into it, super fun and great tones. Starts blurring the lines of studio rig and livesetup

[@MrNakkeru]

5:34 Capt Lee trolling spotted.

[@Phishbait555]

Haha. So funny. Nice catch.

[@dylandenney3980]

I left a main comment but I'll say it here too: I love that the Capt. lick has become a meme in the guitar world. Pete does it in almost every video and I think even Rabea has played it. I'm pretty sure Mick did it on an earlier TPS also

[@MarcCoteMusic]

Wonderful show, guys... awesome sounds out of that 50/50 rig. For the rack gear show, if you're going vintage, I hope you can dig up a Roland DEP-5 and and a Lexicon PCM 70. Those two units are, for me, the gold standard of rack effects.

[@Glicksman1]

Speaking of having the use of two preamps in one rig: 65 Amps London (original blue label) is a point-to-point, hand-wired, 2x12 - one Celestion G12H30 speaker and one Celestion Blue Alnico, or 1x12 Celestion G12H30 speaker, 18-watt combo. It is also available as a separate head. The power amp uses 2 EL-84s and a Mercury transformer. It has two foot-switchable preamps, an AC-15-type with an EF-85 valve on one side, and a Marshall Model 1958-type with a 12ax7 valve on the other. Each preamp has its own unique control stack and controls. The London is designed to use each side independently, but with a proper A/B/Y box with phase inverter, they can be played together. There may be other amps similar to this. While it certainly is a viable and versatile alternative to just using "an amp", I see the power amp/preamp set up to be an unnecessary complication, the concept of using two discrete preamps in one rig being solvable more simply as above. For me, simplicity is the goal, as I believe I have heard you-all say from time to time.

[@ChrisHendrix117]

So interesting to see the difference in the development such as the Hudson, based on a broken console presumably, vs the traditional “preamp” style OD’s. I had a feeling this is where you’d go with this episode, I had no idea how deep the rabbit hole went! Excellent content as usual fellas!!

[@MrFrankie4700]

Man these guys intro guitar rifts are amazing always

[@wescarroll5811]

Informative show and big fan. This brings up a big question on branding and how you can influence the terminology we use. I think of a guitar pre-amp as a means to boost other overdrives into the front. But now I learned what an fx loop does so I’m intrigued to try some things

[@LoCoGuitars]

Dan, Mick, I am greatly in debt to you. You literally saved me hours of responding to my customers, with this episode. Let me know what I can do for you. Even sending you my pedals, now that I have more time building them thanks to you.

[@Magnulus76]

Depending on the pedal, you can just use a drive pedal as a preamp. I've used one with an ordinary Class D power-amp and a coax speaker, and it works fine, and it's an alternative to using a guitar-specific amp.

[@jrdan57]

"I lost a couple of db's at 3.2k..." made me laugh out loud. You two are such a treat. Wise, self-deprecating and a great escape any time I get to share an hour or so with you. I've learned so much about tone in the couple of hundred or so videos of yours that I've watched. I'm 63, started playing at 14. For decades I only played a nylon stringed guitar, except for a 1970 Gibson SG and my Blue Sparkle 100 watt Kustom amp I owned in 1972 . A few years ago, I started playing electric guitar in earnest. Doing my best to practice and play two or so hours a day. I love it. Sorry I wasn't able to fall in love with it this way, when I first started playing. Now I've become that predictable idiotic old man wanting far too much gear. Then of course, acquiring too much. Thanks for all your insight and guidance. When you feature a pedal type or a specific pedal, you make it very clear what it does, how it does it, what it's meant to do. You also make it clear many ways to break every one of those rules. In addition to all the above, you're both artists who love your art, and are moved by the magic of the music. It's in your hearts, and you are kind enough to share it with the rest of us lucky enough to have discovered your world. I love your playing. Thanks gents.

[@ThatPedalShow]

Jordan, thank you for the kind words and for spending time with us. 1. You’re not old! 2. You had a Kustom Tuck N Roll amp!? It hardly gets any cooler than that! I can tell from your comment - Mick here - that you’re in this for the same reason we are: because you love it. All best to you sir!

[@jrdan57]

@@ThatPedalShow And thank you for the kind words. I do love it. Play on, gents! (It was a shitty amp, by the way. It didn't sound nearly as good as it looked. )

[@Taylor-kd6lr]

Excellent presentation guys. I really enjoyed this video and found it very informative. Well done!

[@pasqua5228]

Happy New Year! I find this channel super inspiring and absolutely love this episode. Am pretty new to tone chasing and wonder if I could get some feedback... I keep my set up pretty lean w/ a few gain stage pedals and delay/reverb. A Moog Murf in the middle for some one-off atypical texture. I'm curious about the preamp position. My set up is tuner -> fuzz -> J Rocket Archer -> pre-amp (always on for some sizzle), -> Fulltone OCD -> Murf -> Delay -> Reverb. Is there any way to limit the noise when I click on distortion or overdrive fx when they're in chain after my preamp?

[@tbone786]

thanks for the great video, its like I hit a wall and everything made sence when you started going into the effects loop.

[@mrblablablabla]

Great show, very informative! I’m wondering though what would happen if you’d turn up the overdrives and adjust the eq to make them do the Preamp thing a little better.

[@ThatPedalShow]

We should have explained this a little better. They’re still a mile off. We did it with the Broadcast and the Benson... but the Gladio is the same. A MILE off. Cheers!

[@edparker3549]

Great vid guys, thanks for the education. I’ve been curious on this topic for a while. Those Kingsley pedals are amazing 🎸

[@evanmiller2579]

I usually prefer your more overdriven tones, stacked gains, etc. The tones at the end (clean or otherwise) may be the best I have ever heard on any video on KZbin ever!!. Guys...you have totally outdone yourselves. I immediately started looking for a Boogie 50/50. Well done. Blown away!!

[@ThatPedalShow]

Hooray!

[@houseoftone8939]

Good demo for preamps, my question to you guys is, can I use (DI) a preamp straight into my Mac computer and if so what preamps will work best for this?

[@paullee9125]

Hi Dan and Mick, thanks for all the brilliant content and giving me countless ideas and inspiring me to play more guitar and find new tones. I know you must get a lot of show ideas, but one that I thought of (while redoing my pedalboard) was to have an episode where fans of the show send in a photo of their pedalboard and then you would recreate the same/similar board for the show, do a tone tasting of the board, and give some suggestions for other pedals to give further inspiration to the musician... (of course amps and guitars would differ, but it would be neat to see how the board changes based on those factors as well!)

[@ThatPedalShow]

This is a cool idea Paul, thank you! Let’s do it!

[@paullee9125]

@@ThatPedalShow I just saw another comment that suggested this two days ago! haha. I guess the people have spoken :) Looking forward to this segment. Cheers!

One of the most interesting TPS video! To go a step further, I would love to understand the difference between passive, buffered and valve based FX Loops for this very specific application. Simon (from Kingsley) told me that a passive loop would be the best choice to mainly use preamp pedals.

[@ThatPedalShow]

We would be inclined to take his advice and not question it. In our experience the variance in loops from amp to amp is so huge that it would take an enormous amount of research on a wide variety of amps to offer anything useful. It’s probably more useful just tweaking your setup and gear to work the way you like it. To that to that… a buffered loop can be really useful when you’re sending and returning a long cable run and/or multiple pedals. It can essentially iron out impedance/capacitance-related changes in tone when turning pedals off, specifically true bypass pedals of course, because their buffers are only active when the pedal is on. However, in this instance, we’re not sending anything, only returning and given that the preamps are always active, you really shouldn’t require any additional buffering to mitigate tone suck through capacitance. That might be why Simon says an unbuffered loop is optimal. Good luck!

@@ThatPedalShow Thank you for taking the time to answer! You seem to agree there can be a huge variance from one FX Loop to another and I am pretty sure the majority of us doesn't know about it. When it comes to FX Loops, it is simply a matter or having one or not. This is the reason I was suggesting some explanation since I didn't find any good resource to enlighten us. To better illustrate our lack of knowledge about FX Loops, Simon told me that buffered or unbuffered is not relevant in this scenario because it is applied to the "SEND". On the other hand, he told me about the gain stage in the "return" and this is where it can be solid state or valve based. I didn't know about the existence of a gain stage at the FX Loop level and this is confusing (is it the same gain stage of the Power Amp section? or something different?). We are always talking about clipping the preamp or the power amp but I never heard about clipping an FX Loop section. Add the Phase Inverter to the equation and I'm totally lost ahaha. I don't want to bother Simon furthermore, I just wish someone could clarify everything about this and TPS would be simply the best channel to do so ;) ! I am pretty convinced that a lot of people would be amazed about our lack of knowledge about this topic. Anyway, it was just an idea. Keep up the good work, I just love your channel!

[@TheFatstrat79]

Great show! I love using a preamp pedal (victory v4 sheriff) i can take just my pedal board to a session/gig whatever and plug into virtually anything and get great tones/feel without breaking my back lugging a heavy valve amp and cab with me! That maiden really sounds great!! Now i Kinda want a mesa rack...another rabbit hole!!

[@ThatPedalShow]

Nice one Jim. I guess we should have said that ourselves. That is one huge benefit of course!

[@robertshamansky1912]

The tone with that Boogie power amp! Spectacular!!