The 1831 City Bank of New York Robbery

Sometime between when First Teller Lancaster S Burling locked up the vault in the City Bank of New York on Saturday, March 19, 1831 and when he opened the bank on Monday, someone entered the vault and stole the astounding sum of $240,000. It was not, as some newspapers at the time asserted, the first bank robbery in the United States. But it was the first large bank robbery in New York City.
This is original content based on research by The History Guy. Images in the Public Domain are carefully selected and provide illustration. As very few images of the actual event are available in the Public Domain, images of similar objects and events are used for illustration.
You can purchase the bow tie worn in this episode at The Tie Bar:
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All events are portrayed in historical context and for educational purposes. No images or content are primarily intended to shock and disgust. Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it. Non censuram.
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Script by THG
#ushistory #thehistoryguy #Bankrobbery

[@lycossurfer8851]

"This is the Lockpicking Lawyer, and today I'll be talking about one of my ancestors"

[@cmdraftbrn]

hahahaha. and have i got a treat for you.

[@KarlBunker]

😄 From the sound of it, this bank must have used Master brand locks.

[@cmdraftbrn]

@@KarlBunker all the pins were zero cuts.

[@GermanShepherd1983]

Used the tool designed by Bosnian Bill

[@billcampbell9611]

Big click on 1, slight click on 2...and we’ve got it open.

[@marklittle8805]

"Don't all good stories have pirates?" Yes..you stretched it a little but you got them in...

[@TheHistoryGuyChannel]

Some people have mentioned that we use the spelling "City Bank" while the bank today is called "Citibank." The bank was incorporated as the "City Bank of New York, " and that was the name in 1831. The "Citibank" spelling was based on an eight letter wire code address used by the bank starting in the 1860s. The bank name, however, was not officially changed to "Citibank" until 1976. Many are noting that this heist was actually a burglary as opposed to a robbery. But theft from banks have always been characterized as “bank robbery” in the press, and it was commonly called a robbery in the contemporary press. The term “bank burglary” is simply not commonly used. Both types of theft- whether by force or “penalties for anyone who takes and carries away, with the intent to steal or purloin, any property or money or any thing of value in the care, custody, control, management, or possession of any bank, credit union, or savings and loan.” are covered under the Federal Bank Robbery statute, Title 18, section 2113 of the United States Code.

[@richardnott9587]

How about a history guy story of the ONES that got away. Successful bank heists have to have a few pirates.

[@BuildingCenter]

Interestingly, the Evening Post went to press with “MARH 28.”

[@jerrypalmer5459]

CORKTOWN ??????

[@jasonleclare2273]

These tidbits are also neat things to learn! (And that deserve to be remembered, too)

[@DawnOldham]

@@BuildingCenter I noticed that, as well! Maybe the editor was off work that day? Lol

[@Schutzengel64]

Bill Maher Quote: “If you have a gun, you can rob a bank, but if you have a bank, you can rob everyone.”

[@jashanestone]

💯‼️

[@petersack5074]

they do ....record profits.....to what end ? to have someone else, left alive, to squander it.....history repeats EVERY DAMM GENERATION....we don't learn nothing, nor any thing....

[@justmike2944]

Bill Maher is an ass...But that's a good Quote . Wonder where he heard that ?

[@HieronymousLex]

Man it’s almost like Bill Maher doesn’t know a thing about economics hmm... banks have been around for a very long time and the benefit of credit and loaned money is one of the first great inventions of our modern economy. Almost no business would be started without loans, people wouldn’t be able to afford school, and the economy wouldn’t grow

[@ppumpkin3282]

Tell Bill Maher if you control the media, you can rob people of their money, their freedom, and their democracy.

[@rickb1973]

"...the roundest of numbers....zero." chortle, chortle....that's a keeper

[@HM2SGT]

Pirates keep turning up in the darndest places. Thankfully!

[@constancemiller3753]

🏴‍☠️💰💰💸💸

[@handsfree1000]

The finely dressed pirates of today can be observed running the largest banks.

[@sonofnone116]

And others, often in smart uniforms, are often engaged in issuing traffic citations

[@AllAroundBang]

Based

[@tomh6183]

Then put your money under your mattress

[@rockymountainlifeprospecti4423]

How true is that today? Wow

[@konstm.s.236]

@@tomh6183 or a credit union

[@GF_Baltar]

When asked why he robbed banks, famed bank robber Willie Sutton supposedly replied "Because that's where the money is." 🤑

[@bethlehemeisenhour8352]

That's ironic, I mean the guys name, while there is a Sutton Bank. LOL

[@keithjackson4985]

😆 lol 😆 hilarious.

[@bendean4255]

I thought Dillinger said that????

[@GF_Baltar]

@@bendean4255 It's often misattributed to Dillinger, but according to the FBI the quote belongs to Sutton. www.fbi.gov/history/famous-cases/willie-sutton

[@schroedingersdog7965]

Why did Robin Hood rob only the rich? Because the poor had no money.

[@responsivepigeons9908]

the history guy the ultimate story teller of all times.

[@garymartin9777]

Har! Har! Har!

[@ronfullerton3162]

We have been blessed with many good story tellers, both famous and not. Do not forget "the rest of the story".

[@goodun2974]

@@ronfullerton3162 , some of those Paul Harvey "Rest of the Story" episodes don't hold up well under scrutiny; he frequently cherry-picked and massaged the facts, leaving out conflicting information, in order to provide a more interesting story, one that fit his political views. A dispassionate student of history he was not. Entertaining, yes, but not to be taken at face value.

[@responsivepigeons9908]

@@goodun2974 can you exponge more on this rhetoric and hypothesis my dear watson

[@goodun2974]

@@responsivepigeons9908 , I think you meant "expound", not " exponge" (expunge?). Anyway, a quick search found an article from 1997 (when Harvey was still alive) by a Wisconsin reporter, posted on the FAIR website (Fairness and Accuracy In Reporting), detailing a number of Paul Harvey stories that he and several others were unable to corroborate by fact-checking ( and Harvey refused requests for an interview to discuss this). I'd give you a direct link if I knew how, but I'm an analog guy in a digital world, so the best I can do is type in the URL here and perhaps that'll work. ( I tried it, and it does work for me!). fair.org/extra/the-right-of-the-story/

[@bbeen40]

"We've been robbed!! Call the police!!" "We haven't founded them yet." "Crap".

[@scottkoenig6326]

That's funny. Good one.

[@kerriwilson7732]

The time when the police were pre-funded.

[@stevedietrich8936]

THG, I've said it before and I'll say it again. You Sir, are an outstanding story teller! An awful lot of us would sit here enthralled listening to you read a phone book, wondering what the next name was going to be. Once again, good job.

[@samiam619]

“I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again.” God I hate morons who say that. How many more times will you say that again?

[@lavonwatson8814]

Loved the use of ne'er-do-well. I spent over 20 years in law enforcement hoping for the chance to use the term, 'burly, sullen, ne'er-do-well' in an official capacity but could never fit it in anywhere without fear of bring fired. I did have the opportunity as an investigator to work a case with a Detective Holmes from another agency once. Needless to say witnesses and suspects alike were taken back when Watson and Holmes introduced themselves. And, yes, of course we cracked the case. 🙂 Keep up the great content.

[@stanfischer6175]

I'm an old biker and tell people my friends are aging scallywags and ne'er-do-wells.

[@tamlandipper29]

I just realised that ne'er-do-well and nogoodnik are the same concept. I like it.

[@Salvaging-in-Az]

24 year retired LEO here… I too like the term ne’er do well, but I was never able to get it into a police report. 😩. We would have certain “goals” some nights to get a certain phrase out over the radio. “ stop in the name of the law” was our first one, …and the rules were that it had to be used during a foot pursuit, and it had to go out over the radio. Nobody was able to do it😀😀. I was proud of one officer for getting the term “flippy floppy‘s” over the air when describing a suspect who was running away in sandals. 😀😀.

[@Itcouldbebunnies]

What is the robbing of a bank compared to the founding of a bank? - Bertolt Brecht

[@markbaker9459]

Your stories hit the 'mark' repeatedly for me( Mark Baker). My Grandfather was in fact , the town's constable of Kings Park, New York for oh so many years until his death. As a tot, I had lifted his revolver his it's holster at the family dinner one night ! Though he died before I was 4 years old, he served our town for decades. I may now begin to understand how his life as the town constable allowed him to raise all 16 children and 2 adopted kids , 15 boys and 3girls in there 2bedroom house . The boys had to 'hot-bed it' in the downstairs part of the house while the folks and girls slept up-stairs. A happy close family was theirs.

[@michaelpeters2048]

Sir, I continue to learn more from you and your wife than I ever did in school. Even though I am now 68 years old and a great grampa four times over, when I watch your videos I feel like a schoolboy. I wish I could get my grandkids to watch with me but they have to many other irons in the fire.

[@patrickmcneilly4293]

Hearing you say "Morris Canal", made me smile because I live near the remains of the Morris Canal. There isn't much left of it but, Its now a walking path in certain sections. Maybe the history of the canal that transported coal to the furnaces, then carried the iron to the ports for transport could be a video. But, either way, its cool to hear a local landmark in a video.

[@mbgrafix]

Smith and Jones as an alias... _...so original._

[@TheHistoryGuyChannel]

He actually might have been the original...

[@rabbi120348]

Edward Jones went on to found a major financial services firm.

[@mbgrafix]

@@rabbi120348 🤔You sure? I thought it was Edward Smith!

[@diarcon]

Loved that show when I was young...

[@mbgrafix]

@@diarcon Ha ha!

[@Lady_Chalk]

‘The New York Job’ ‘Ocean’s 1831’

[@nesescondido2847]

History Guy, I enjoy immensely everyone of your You Tube videos including todays episode about the City Bank of New York. As a former police officer and detective I have a pet peeve. That is when people confuse the terms burglary and robbery. A robbery is when the suspects take property from another by the use of force or fear. For a crime to be a robbery there has to be a human victim present. Therefore in order for a crime to be a bank robbery the bad guys have to have threatened a human bank employee, usually with a weapon, in order for them to give up the money or open a vault. The crime you so skillfully described today was a bank burglary. The suspects entered a building with the intent to commit theft or another felony. No human victim was present. They pulled the burglary on the weekend when no one was in the bank. I fully understand that you reported the crime as a robbery because that was how it was described in the newspapers of the day. I thought I would help you recognize the difference for the next time you research and present future incredibly good videos. Keep up the good work!! Nestor Escondido

[@JustTheFlecks]

The press and TV often confuse the terms robbery for burglary and jail for prison.

[@joejavabop]

As I write this, THG is approaching 1 million subscribers! Congrats to you both for the top-notch content, production, and story-telling.

[@sathancat]

Knowing that it was Citibank that was stolen from, I enjoy this video so much more!

[@jimminybunkwhack5706]

I was half expecting the bank robbing partner of "Edward Jones" to go by the alias of Charles Schwab

[@claycountybrian5645]

Greetings from Clay County, Missouri ! Home of the first US DAYLIGHT bank robbery Thanks again, Lance! Closing in on a MILLION ! SHOW ME .............. the history, guy ! 867 thumbs UP !

[@goodun2974]

Less than one minute into watching this video I was thinking I would have to comment, "don't all good stories involve bank robberies?". After all, modern banks, Citigroup in particular, are known to engage in legally sanctioned piracy and pillaging. But then, at 3:10 THG did it for me with his perennial reference to pirate stories!

[@goofygus6855]

Great lesson as always. I wanted to throw a couple of history subjects for you to cover. My father, who is 87 and still Living, is a Vietnam era retired USAF Chief Master Sargent. He served from 1952-1978 and served 3 tours in SE Asia, USAFE Europe and the Strategic Air Command. During the Cuban Missile Crisis he was stationed at McGuire AFB NJ Where they were very busy with resupply activity. The three tours in SE Asia involved one tour in RVN and Two tours in Thailand. In Vietnam he was stationed at Bien Hoa Air Base in 1963/64. This was the main base for the initial “Operation Ranchhand” program. This was the use of Agent Orange To defoliate the countryside. I have been assured that no one was wearing hazmat suites or respirators during any time this occurred. In 1969 he was stationed at RT Base Utapao where B-52 strikes were employed in Cambodia and supported operation ‘Rolling Thunder’. On 7/18/69 a B-52 ready for takeoff with a full bomb load blew up at the end of the flight line. The concussion from the explosion damaged KC-135s on the alert tarmac and my father witnessed a Thai national buffing the floor of their office go parallel to the floor with the buffing machine. A few days later he was walking near the crash and picked up a primer from a 500 pound bomb. It has made An excellent door stop since. The third tour was 1975 to RT Base Khorat. He was traveling to this assignment during the Mayaguez Incident so missed that fun. But he didn’t miss the maintenance issues from damage some of the planes suffered and the closing Of the base. So much more of course. Enjoy.

[@higgme1ster]

I was Viet Nam Era veteran too, but just for the last three months. Saigon fell while I was in USAF Basic Training. Thanks to you for being an Air Force Brat and his service to our nation! What a record he had! Stay proud always!

[@TheKulu42]

I'd be tempted to dub the incident the first media event bank robbery in the United States.

[@scotttillman01]

This is one of the best channels on KZbin. These videos are so much fun to watch. Thank you!

[@MultiRabe]

This kinda reminds me of that saying : “locks are only for keeping honest people out”!

[@kevinbarry71]

"Had to be restructured" that is a euphemism for gone broke. Something that bank would do many times throughout its history. Most recently about 13 years ago

[@TheHistoryGuyChannel]

Yes, they nearly went broke from bad loans in 1824.

[@burtvincent1278]

The way of banksters.

[@WJSpies]

Citibank insider emplotees call it (w/ some ire) "Shitty Bank."

[@haroldobrien4322]

I had absolutely no idea about this event. As someone that not only works for Citibank, and as a security executive, I found this thoroughly insightful and entertaining.

[@elmikeomysterio5496]

The world needs a History Guy+Simon Whistler colab video.

[@mikekern3663]

Once again you have set the record straight for me. I recently watched a Robert Redford documentary about the west. In it they claimed that Jessie James committed the first bank robbery in the United States. Maybe they should have said armed bank robbery.

[@nunyabussiness4054]

Believe it has been called the "first daytime bank robbery"

[@jeffreymcneal1507]

Robbery or burglary?

[@MartinGorski]

This was my "This Day in History" message for my work team today!!!

[@gennaro13]

As there was no threat of violence or force used, this was a bank burglary.

[@blastforth]

But this was not a dwelling, so at common law it would be larceny.

[@Hoseapluma]

Exactly

[@Hoseapluma]

Burglary is unlawful entry to commit a felony. The type of structure does not matter.

[@crystallittlepage2246]

Another piece of history that most people don't hear about is the Wellington Train avalanche of 1910 in which 96 people died and, in the same time frame the Battle of Coronel that is almost unheard of. Thank you for reading, your loyal subscriber.

[@charlesdudek7713]

This is one of your more enjoyable episodes as of late. Each morning I look forward to your notifications and enjoy your stories over breakfast. Thank you.

[@kcouche]

Naval Station Argentia is a story worth remembering...

[@kennylong7281]

This is the best history channel!

[@jetsons101]

So at one time New York City was a safe, intimate and orderly? What went wrong? Lock your doors and keep your head down. Again another great video. Thanks H.G.

[@constipatedinsincity4424]

This bank appeared in Dog Day Afternoon!

[@johns7734]

"Locks are no security against their depredations." If you ever get the chance to look at a locksmithing catalog, you quickly come to the realization that locks are only good against honest people.

[@ronfullerton3162]

I was at a friend's when the police were investigating a break in. My friend told the officer, "But I had everything locked up"! To which the officer responded, "Locks are only for keeping the honest, honest".

[@goodun2974]

If you want to find out who in your neighbourhood or circle of friends and acquaintances is truly honest, just leave all your doors unlocked but install a well-hidden camera. Unfortunately, we are pretty much forced by insurance company policies to lock all our doors and windows because if we do get robbed and there's no sign of a physically-damaging break-in, the insurance companies will deny the claim because you didn't lock your doors! Sometimes I don't know which ones are the bigger modern pirates: banks, or insurance companies.....BTW, It amazes me how many people leave their cars unlocked, automobiles being far more likely to be robbed than homes, and yet some people even leave their keys in the car or leave it running for 10 or 15 minutes to warm up!

[@evensgrey]

Locks on their own can only, at best, slow down a professional thief. You need to have active monitoring to make thefts really difficult. Ideally, if you're protecting specific targets of high value, you engineer it so the thief has no choice but to trip an active monitor at some point, putting a clock on the thief's activities.

[@johns7734]

@@goodun2974 I enjoy "locksport", which is the amateur picking or bypassing of locks. Even though I am not especially experienced, I can get through most door locks in 10 to 30 seconds, leaving no trace behind. If I were not honest, the average door lock would be little impediment. And there would be no sign of forced entry. Scratches on a lock from being picked is purely Hollywood detective fiction.

[@Peasmouldia]

@@johns7734 My insurance company demand I use a particular lock for my electric bike. I had a look at Lock Picking Lawyer, it took him nearly 2 mins to pick it open. Not a bad lock then.... Ta.

[@shawnharrington9548]

History and true crime, a perfect combination. Than you.

[@bucksdiaryfan]

The History Guy always reminds me of that guy who used to be on CBS who played the piano and commented on politics -- Mark Russell

[@THE-HammerMan]

Mark Ressell was a genius...and funny as all get out!

[@markmiller4503]

Edward Jones stealing money since 1831.

[@cavscout6b]

Glad you caught that. Ironically, one of the Dow-Jones partners was an Edward Jones as well.

[@virginiahansen320]

...and it's History that Deserves to be Remembered!!!!

[@nathanahrens4280]

History that shouldn't be forgotten... what citi bank did to Hati .......

[@justtime6736]

Or what the Clinton Foundation did.

[@nathanahrens4280]

@@justtime6736 while I agree with you that starts to wonder into a divided camp. Where as what france and citi bank did can at least be agreed on by all that it was unnecessary and unforgivable

[@BA-gn3qb]

A pirate walks into a bar with a steering wheel sticking out of his zipper. The bartender asks: "What's with the steering wheel?" And the pirate says: "AAAARRRRRRGH, It's driving me Nuts."

[@Supernaut2000]

Haha, the robber used an alias of Edward Jones! As you may know them today as a private investment firm!

[@ragnarmjolnir9654]

I love this channel 👍🇺🇸🖖

[@69adrummer]

That dude should have IMMEDIATELY got on a ship and headed for the opposite coast!! lol

[@michael-499]

Hey “History Guy” it is Charles Karult, CBS or Paul Harvey, “Good Day”. These two gentlemen are brought to mind when I view you channel. Your the guy. ENJOY~

[@badcat4707]

I just love a good bank robbery story !! always brings a smile to my furry face ;-)

[@jamesireland6606]

Another great story by the history guy

[@phillipstoltzfus3014]

I love the old newspaper descriptions!

[@AlexMartinez-me2yc]

I love learning about history. I especially like learning the history of NYC.

[@paulhunt598]

A very interesting story and told very well. I try to never miss an episode. Few episodes disappoint me!

[@trime1851]

Very interesting - thank you for posting! Until the Civil War, the US Government did not issue any paper money. All money was gold, silver and copper coin which contained full intrinsic value until the 1851 silver three cent coin (trime) and the small cent (1857). Foreign coins were legal tender until 1857 since in the early years the US Mint was unable to mint the quantity of coin needed for commerce. Paper money was then considered and still is debt. I suspect that the robbers chose to concentrate on bank notes because of the weight. Bank Notes were generally unregulated debt backed by a quantity of gold and silver coins at the bank. The banks always issued more notes than their coins to increase profit from lending the money with interest. If people began to not trust the solvency of a bank there would be a "run on the bank" where people would demand their money in coin. Generally before all the coin was disbursed, the bank would close and in the night the bank president would remove the coin, put it in a wagon and leave town to go as far as possible. People would only accept paper money if they knew the bank. If you took paper money too far away, maybe nobody would accept it. Counterfeiting was common. Some people would only accept coin for payments. Gold doubloons were two escudo coins issued by Spain and former Spanish colonies. Their value was approximately four dollars. Spanish gold escudos and silver reales where the most common foreign coins circulating in the US. US newspaper advertisements frequently quoted prices in reales and escudos.

[@brianpstn74]

I love your love of History, and from it have found a new Love of My Own!

[@tomjahnes7811]

The History Guy can work pirates into any story. And all the stories are great!

[@franciscampagna2711]

Thank you once again. Fantastic story.

[@bradleyjames1340]

How about a video on the Polish armored battle trains of WW2?

[@clinthowe7629]

i couldn’t help but grin when you revealed the culprit apprehended at the boarding house to be Honeyman.

[@HoopTY303]

That was kind of a pirate “stretch” but I’ll allow it. Love these shows!!!

[@Dularr]

I am so pleased to see your videos again in my feed.

[@rdaltry777]

Excellent as always

[@harlech2]

Another great video. Thanks!

[@mat3714]

Great work

[@robertlescelius9851]

I so enjoy your story telling! Thank you!

[@franknicholson6108]

Interesting as usual Thanks

[@whitedomerobert]

How can we not enjoy a bank robbery with dab-loons and the history guy.

[@grizzle273463]

This was really a great video. thx

[@AFloodofSolaceJohnWhigham]

Great job!! I love this video. I love history. You did an amazing job.

[@phillipmarlowe0525]

I absolutely love your channel

[@stevemac6707]

Excellent video & thoroughly entertaining. Kudos 👍

[@NemoBlank]

Excellent show.

[@steveshoemaker6347]

Well said sir....Well said....Thanks

[@pedmanga2]

the best youtube channel

[@joereeves8259]

Keep up the good work. amazing story!

[@xvsj5833]

Excellent ❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️

[@infoscholar5221]

Another fine revisit and excellent forensic history.

[@charlesseymour1482]

Great story.

[@peterjohnson6273]

Thank you for the presentations you make. Always interesting. :>)

[@scottabc72]

Great story Im just surprised the bank didnt employ an overnight guard especially since there had already been other robberies.

[@clinthowe7629]

Very nice, a very interesting story indeed, thank you.

[@stefanc4520]

How the Night Watch has fallen since its origins at the Wall...

[@UwUEmmittationUwU]

this was such an amazing story! the best story teller of all times!

[@MrWATCHthisWAY]

It is amazing to me just how well the articles were written about the men from this robbery. The pros and eloquence of the time show just how far down our American English language has digressed over the years. I’m trying to imagine if we could use such writing in today’s Twitter postings. Lol..

[@rabbi120348]

Wow man, you like hit the nail like right on it's head.

[@TheHistoryGuyChannel]

I could have included more- the newspapers at the time seemed to spend a great deal of effort describing the countenance of the accused.

[@MrWATCHthisWAY]

@@TheHistoryGuyChannel I believe with adaptation of photography into newspaper articles laid waste to the descriptive writings of the past. Papers needed to provide space on print to provide photo imagery at the suffering of descriptive writing. Just the facts please! Let’s not forget the induction of commercial sales add’s too but I believe we are seeing a sort or Renaissance in writing with electronic publications. I’ve noticed a change in the New York Times from the 80’s with an increase in article sizes and structure along with an deepening thesaurus vocabulary that has me constantly referring to a online dictionaries. Lol

[@ronfullerton3162]

Many of today's people probably would not be able to understand what the writer was trying to convey. I have had to read or interpret for some people fairly basic statements. Some I even feared would not be able to understand a Dick and Jane reading primer.

[@goodun2974]

@@TheHistoryGuyChannel , whenever somebody takes the money and runs, an editor somewhere tells his reporters "that story's got legs", and instructs them to "go run it down"! 😁

[@frankgulla2335]

Very nice, sir. Very nice.

[@jeg5gom]

Avast matey! Always after me prized doubloons, they be... arrrrrrg!!

[@marcsorensen2985]

i would love to see a snowshoe thompson episode.

[@billglenn10]

After watching... I took a minute to reflect... I'm glad I found this channel - Excellent production on all the THG video's...

[@3ducksinamansuit]

Man, I love these!

[@mikekahl5609]

Locks only keep honest people out.

[@kirtliedahl]

Fantastic

[@buzzman4860]

Great story

[@markprenger1979]

@TheHistoryGuy love your videos so informative about matters I never new about. Could you do a video on "Navy 1" that happened on May 1, 2003.

[@RJ2878]

I love history, I really appreciate your gift of telling a historical story.

[@whoever6458]

Great story!

[@maryerb6062]

Thanks for that final wisecrack! "It SHOULD have been the first one!"

[@petergray2712]

Next time: THG looks at the mathematicians that attempted to square the circle. Because don't all good stories begin with Pi roots?

[@mickey4125]

Hmmmm. 5/10. And that's only for mathematical accuracy, the humour was awful.

[@petergray2712]

@@mickey4125 Puns aren't meant to be humorous. They're meant to be dodged.