The 1993 Waco Branch Davidian Tragedy Revisited: What Really Happened?

This extended in-depth look at the 1993 Waco Branch Davidian tragedy is an open discussion between four of us who have been closely involved and done research on "Why Waco?" for the past 28 years. This includes books published, countless articles, and many interviews--all trying to "get the facts straight." Rumors, conspiracy theories, and government propaganda abounds--but what really happened at Waco. If you are ready for a deep dive, this is it.
This program was born from the need that four religious studies experts felt for a forum to discuss w​hat actually transpired in the clash between the Branch Davidian religious community at Mount Carmel near Waco, Texas and American law enforcement in 1993 and how the tragedy could have been avoi​ded. Although these scholars have been interviewed by national media often for over 25 years, their accounts have been distorted and never reported in full. Now for the first time, they bypass major media and together tell their story in their own words without interruption.
It is the scholars’ hope that their analysis and insights will reach far into the future and contribute to society in a way that will benefit both law enforcement and religious groups when conflicts threaten. While their incisive criticism of the failure of American law enforcement authorities in the case of Waco is sharp and real, their goal is for society to learn from past failures and to say, “Never Again, Never Again.”
This is a lengthy presentation so the following is a guide to the segments:
"Live" 911 Calls from Branch Davidians to Waco Law Enforcement
I. Introducing the Four Scholars and the Topic
A. Names, affiliations, and research interests
B. How they got involved initially and pursued this
C. What methods they use to understand the Waco events
D. How did the siege start?
II. Introducing the Branch Davidians and David Koresh
A. Nationality
B. Gun issue
a. Gun shots through the siege
b. The victim’s family lawsuit against the government
c. Women and children
d. Both Branch Davidians and ATF killed on the first day of the siege, Feb 28, 1993.
1. Media
2 What actually happened.
III. The First day of the Siege
A. Why that day?
a. Media - The Sinful Messiah Series
b. Child abuse charges against the Branch Davidians
VI. Who are the Branch Davidians
A. History
a. Origin.
b. Religious Leaders and Movements related to David Koresh
B. Understanding of the Bible
a. Messiahs in the Bible and the Prophet in the present
b. Koresh’s teaching and exegesis of the Bible
c. His multiple marriages
d. His name change: Koresh or Cyrus and King David
C. Belief
a. Scrolls and Texts
b. Salvation
c. Prophesy and persecutions
V. FBI’s involvement and Escalation
A. Koresh’s communication with FBI: Koresh betraying or betrayed?
B. Conflicts between Koresh and FBI as well as the negotiators and FBI
C. Broadcasting and isolation
D. Reasons why Koresh want to talk: Seven seals and prophecies for now
E. FBI’s tactics and aggression against the Branch Davidians
a. Surveillance
b. Gas attack and Fire
c. Not cooperating with the scholars
VI. The Roles of Religious Studies
A. Efforts by Religion Experts to save people rejected by the FBI
B. Understanding this religious group
a. Understanding messages
b. Comparative Studies
c. What was actually done and tried by religious studies scholars during the standoff and what could have been achieved
d. Understanding the waiting time
e. Understanding what is the ultimate concern for this, or any religious group
f. Scholars entered into world view of Koresh in order to use his theology to create a Biblical way to surrender
VII. Despite the Efforts of Independent Scholars, Tragedy Strikes
A. The Assault starts
a. Surveillance devices
b. Engineering vehicles
c. Attacking children and women
d. Fire
e. Reactions of the Branch Davidians
VIII. How Can We Understand the New Religious Groups Better?
A. Cult narratives and essentialism
B. Placing them in the history of Religions
C. Apocalypse in Religions
IX. FBI Missed Opportunity
D. Now what can we do?
E. Positive cases after the Waco standoff Siege
F. Comparative Religions
G. Imagine if it had never happened?

[@boboosh40]

What an articulate, unbiased piece on the tragic events of Waco! It is refreshing to see a conversation that addresses both sides of the story and is not misrepresented like most of the stories that come from the media. I normally do not comment on KZbin videos, but this is great work and deserves commendation for all 4 attendees.

[@Skankhunter420]

Hearing this story from a religious studies perspective is something i never anticipated being able to sit through let alone understand. Great jobs guys! Seriously!

[@takingmylifebackatlast3419]

I don't necessarily agree with the davidians but I agree that every man woman and child he's a right to believe whatever they believe. They also have a right to not be killed because of their belief.Also their right to bear arms.

[@millantronni3242]

People should be allowed to belive what ever they think, but as soon as they express this to others, it can and SHALL be scrutinized. As soon as people affect others or promoting they belives on others it is allowed for everyone to question them and hold them up to what the society consider illegal. "Also their right to bear arms." Rubbish, 80 people would not have died if not David and his idiots of "soldier of god" had armed themself.

[@-Awareness]

@@millantronni3242 then use the same approach to Catholicism and Christianity and all the other religions that have brought and forced death on opposing believers… such a hypocritical statement…

[@millantronni3242]

@@-Awareness "then use the same approach to Catholicism and Christianity and all the other religions that have brought and forced death on opposing believers" Agree No belief, religious or not, should be exempted from scrutiny from others. I respect human and human life but I do not respect religions

[@angelmccoy8725]

@David B the problem is they weren't illegal. There were a couple of licensed gun dealers there who were licensed to own certain firearms you or I may not have access too. They made things like hunting vests and ornamental trinkets out of hand grenades that were just dummy grenades not real ones.

[@edjames9849]

@@millantronni3242 80 people would not have died if the feds were not corrupt. The right to bear arms shall not be infringed. This situation is just as bad as ruby ridge.

[@QSasquatch]

We learned that govt can do anything they want & lie about it later.

[@Oldman_nomad]

James I found you through watching Closer to Truth on my journey into religious study but upon researching you some more I was happy to see your testimony and your reports on this horrible and unconstitutional raid that I have been following since it happened. I am very happy to have found your channel!

[@letsgobrandon7297]

Great breakdown of the tragic event. I only noticed two mistakes. 1st being the negotiators were caught in multi lies from guns on helicopters, not just one lie. First they said there were no guns, then david gets mad and the negotiators say “well there was guns but they weren’t shooting. Then it went to “well David from what I understand there was people shooting from helicopters but no mounted guns” which David says I’m not arguing on that. 2nd being how they put razor wire around the house and at one point before the last raid the negotiators told Wayne “our patience has run out, if anyone leaves the house they will be shot”. Why would you put razor wire and tell people they will be shot if they exit the house but telling public “all we want is for them to come outside and surrender”. The atf raid for budget causes is enough that should led to the commander of the raid and high ups in atf going to prison. Lastly I want to say that the ATF ran out of ammo after pumping thousands of rounds into the building, the Branch Davidians literary let them walk away. They could have taken out every single atf agent if they wanted to.

[@St.CrispinsDayGLORY]

Yeah, the price they paid for showing mercy was the ATF burning their children alive. And I notice many lies; and sinister and adversely compelling circumstances. I think David summed it up when he said on the phone, "why do you have to be so big all the time..."? The exercise of some understanding and love would have saved the children's lives. This was horrenous. A biblical event.

[@OneNationxUnderDog]

The negotiators/FBI/ATF/National Guard/Delta Force, literally so many agencies were involved in this, and were caught in so many lies, sadly we will never know exactly what happened as they made sure there was 0 evidence to inspect, the government was never going to let the Davidians leave and let their building be left standing, they needed the April 19th events to play out exactly how it did, to destroy all the evidence of mounted guns on helicopters, evidence of Delta Force/HRT going in and shooting and killing the Davidian Men Women and Children, you can see people firing automatic weapons into the cafeteria being rammed with a Tank. There is even a specialist in Waco during this, who said what was broadcast on TV was not what was actually happening there, that the tanks which had "booms for inserting gas" were actually "flame throwers", ever wonder why they only pumped "gas in" once the Boom crashes in and gets obscured inside Mt carmel? They straight up torched the building and shot and stabbed absolutely every last Davidian, but even today the narrative is "The Fbi never fired a single shot during those 51 days", "The davidians set the fires themselves", "The davidians shot each other as mercy killings". The davidians had nearly nonstop training in guns and Mt Carmel gave them the strategic advantage. If they wanted to ambush the ATF there wouldn't have been only 4 agents who died that day.

[@tcb6857]

If one wanted to research the topic of the Waco tragedy, Dr. Tabor's material, and Waco survivor David Thibodeau's book &interviews will give you excellent insight into what happened. Great work Dr., thank you!

[@St.CrispinsDayGLORY]

Thank you for your service. I am no religious scholar, but I think David Koresh summed this up, "why do you ATF have to be so big all the time". Granted after 51 days patients was thin, BUT a little humanity, understanding and dare I say it LOVE would have seen a different and probably much swifter outcome. If it is even true David did have illegal weapons, it was for armogedom, preppeing purposes, not to comit crimes. Although this is unlikely, because if he did the ATF would all of been slaughtered withing minutes given they had no cover, and Koresh showed mercy anyway, letting them leave. These people were not terrorists. They were killed because they were differen't to the majority. They were a peaceful community of people and children causing no immediate harm to no one, so an aggressive para-military response to a suspected firearms violations search, was hardly justification for murdering 19 children and 79 people. And from a psychological concern, the Devidians were met with disingenouousness, mockery, prejudice; unreasonableness; and stubborn beauracratic hostility and repeated violence multiple times, even using 10 Delta Force operators who FBI were claimed were observers, but FLIR evidence showed them in assault positions next to tanks penetrating the buildings. Shape charges were used on the women and children in the 'bunker', really an old valt; attack helicopters and armour were used, all while in a fibro-board building. Harassed, their rights manipulated and their actions cherry picked and embelished, they were finally persecuted with the help of the media then murdered. The only winners in this are the dead. Martyred in eternal glory. This is probably the most shameful event in developed nation history, and it is biblical...

[@c2shiningc903]

This was so interesting to listen to. I only recently educated myself on what happened at Waco after decades of automatically accepting the media/government narrative. I was a young mom myself when this happened and didn't pay close attention to details at the time. However, I could never reconcile or fully believe on any level, the idea that the Davidians willfully killed their own children; something I had read many times in media. I appreciate your understanding and empathy of people with this particular life experience. I learned from this. Thank you.

[@leeoleary3321]

I am educating myself on waco too. I remember hearing that they had set themselves on fire. I found it shocking to learn the truth.. Theres evidence of people trying to escape the fire by running out the back door. They all got shot and bodies thrown in the fire. Straight afterthe fire the bulldozers came in and levelled the place destroying all the evidence. Criminal really. A few months before waco was a similiar incident, Randy weaver and Ruby ridge. Same two agencies involved.. The ATF and the FBI

[@patriciaoudart1508]

Was in the same case than you🙏💚🧡👍

[@garrettsanders4832]

I think Koresh did kill his own people. He's caught on tape planting fuel and hay before the fire. He was a narcissist who was having sex with MANY children. He's insane. He's an empty and evil person who was molested multiple times as a child.

[@SHIBBYiPANDA]

But I mean… they did kill their own children. They set the fuel and hay. They prepared for a fire. They clearly set things up so that they’d either experience a fire miracle or die if the FBI moved in. They were all terrible, stupid people, who gave up their own children to be molested and raped and we should acknowledge this. They fucked themselves in far more than one way. They all deserve to burn in Hell. The only victims here are the children who were the victims of both their parents, Karesh, and then the FBI’s stupidity.

[@Lambdamale.]

I was a teenager when this happened. I was in the same boat.

[@stinger51505]

I love the beginning. Could this have been avoided? Yes! Leave these people alone. They broke no laws. This is what happens when you allow the heavy hand of government to dictate what we do.

[@thewkovacs316]

1. in the takeover of the cult, vern almost killed the former leader 2. to make money and self arm, vern and his followers were turning semi automatic weapons into automatic weapons they were a threat to society 3. vern was raping children on a daily basis....you pedo promoter but the atf shouldnt have raided them....shouldve just dropped a bunch of bombs on the compound

[@patrick4662]

well... they didn't break 'no' laws.

[@stinger51505]

@@patrick4662 I’m unsure what your comment was supposed to convey. I said… they broke no laws. If you have proof they did then please present it. If you’re trying to say something about my grammar. I suppose that is always questionable but the facts are not.

[@stinger51505]

@@patrick4662 I said they broke no laws… I didn’t say them boys ain’t done broke no damn lawns.

[@steveatrandom6725]

Broke no laws? Huh? Try polygamy and child abuse for starters. Ugh

[@LauraLancealot]

As a 13 year old girl in suburbia Colorado, all doubt gone, my position hardened cause I knew who had shyt on their boot soon as the government bulldozed the Mount Carmel 30 day's later.

[@dr.foxysocks2459]

No one takes the opinion of a 13 year old seriously, that's why you are forced to go to school.

[@bobfrench2816]

Respect to you Laura. You left Eden at 13 as many do.

[@KeithJames1969]

Can’t believe I just found this. Let me add my two cents worth. I have a friend from Waco. Actually, two friends… One of them was very familiar with David. He told me that everything the media reported was false. He says David used to come into town and everyone knew and liked him. He also said the narrative about him fathering all of these children, and having all these wives was false as well. Just to give you a feel for how this worked…One of the Davidians was shot on the way home from work. He was unarmed and shot in the back. He was left in a roadside ditch for five days before his body was moved. I don’t need to say anything else. That should tell you all you need to know. We essentially have the same debacle as we had at Ruby Ridge.

[@hansjohan3150]

ATF coming in for "child_abuse" ????

[@davidaguilar9376]

Heart breaking those poor people in there.

[@JeffreySykes]

This was incredibly interesting. Endless insights and not a dry minute in 3 hours.

[@princessofJesus777]

Great discussion; learned a lot. Thank you

[@atheistapostate7019]

I remember coming home from school for lunch and my mom having CNN on while the compound was starting to go ablaze. I was in grade 10

[@atheistapostate7019]

While I was a Mormon, I was often told I was in a cult due to it not being mainstream traditional Christianity. Mormons sure think the opposite and take offence over it as they deeply believe in Jesus of the Bible.

[@hfranklin2009]

This is interesting. I’ve learned a lot about the Davidians. I had no idea they had a 150 year history. I would like to hear more.

[@Amondera3210]

The davidians go back further than that. You are researching only the converts. Do better research instead of the other countries because they are the origins for your matrix.

[@ethanweeter2732]

This is the extreme sect of them that were in that compound. I guarantee you the true Branch Davidians are good people.

[@ethanweeter2732]

@@Amondera3210 I don’t agree with Egyptian polytheism, but like your name.

[@mrnickisntaprick]

@@ethanweeter2732 they were murdered by the atf and fbi and you think they are the extremists? we have the second amendment and people are allowed to make and own guns. a couple broken gun laws doesnt justify demonizing and murdering a group of people

[@jaysencorbett1855]

@@ethanweeter2732 did you not watch the series?

[@tonton1945.]

Wow! My brother was murdered on the same day, February 28,1993 and I was not a Christian then and I was not aware of how crooked the FBI can be. I will have to dig further into this. Very scary on both sides, but I do not know enough to comment further. Kudos for you gentlemen to try and help that horrible situation! God bless

[@dakotahstr]

I was watching this as it happened and was on David's side . They fbi and everyone involved did caused murders and should be held accountable

[@Skankhunter420]

They were held accountable. They were given medals for valor. Smh

[@nuggetoftruth-ericking7489]

It was all handled wrong.

[@mrush336]

Thank you for making this! Very interesting. I was a young man when this tragedy played out, now I hope to understand what really happened.

[@gfys756]

Regardless of how you live, if you aren't actively, aggressively attacking others (like isis, al qaeda, taliban), you don't really need Little Bird helicopters and tanks to smoke a little community. Alternatively, they could have just picked up the leader when he went to town. Avoid all bloodshed. The US military is the strongest in world history. But sometimes, powerful people make mistakes. Waco looks like a show of force. It didn't work out well...scary.

[@jaredneilsen]

This is so very interesting- an excellent approach to explaining and presenting, thank you for sharing this

[@ohmss069]

This talk makes me completely rethink the whole Waco Siege and how it went down, and how cults are viewed around the world. Thank you for opening my eyes to a different perspective, that the siege was a sad tragedy that could’ve ended in less bloodshed if the ATF and FBI had been more open to dialogue.

[@gfys756]

Why didn't they just snatch David when he jogged into town? Avoid all of the bloodshed? It was a show of force....

[@DenofBarjack]

@@gfys756I have long asked the same question

[@Vixen743]

She asked me the whole sounds ridiculous some people are just not smart to allow yourself to get brainwashed and of course you don’t want to be the whole thing is just not right on both ends

[@stevenv6463]

Wow, this is so fascinating. If only the authorities listened to the academics on this, a lot could have gone differently.

[@LissaLori]

Honestly, so true.

[@mylittleelectron6606]

In the midst of a gun battle in which Koresh took a bullet to the abdomen, he still took a moment to dunk on the ATF agents name. That's pretty badass.

[@jaybee4118]

I don’t really care what he did in there, he abused at least one child when he married a 14 year old. There’s nothing bad ass about that.

[@mylittleelectron6606]

@@jaybee4118 I am certainly not defending the man, but I'm curious what you think about many Muslim majority countries on this matter, for example, Iran? I ask not for any other reason than my being curious.

[@hansjohan3150]

@@jaybee4118 Well, he was decent enough to marry her before .........?

[@GravityBoy72]

"The cameras malfunctioned". The same excuse in a lot of things.

[@Skankhunter420]

Epstien comes to mind 😆

[@imnotaloneheswithme7061]

The Feeble Bureau of Instigators and the ATF only had one concern. To make an example out of these ingrates. Long story short, they were murdered.

[@jamesbusald7097]

If you are shooting at my dogs you are shooting at me; I will return fire.

[@Skankhunter420]

Twice as much on a Sunday.

[@davidnelson6874]

Was the Herald Tribune series coordinated in conjunction with the FBI? The whole beginning of the Branch Davidians with Houteff is suspect. He showed up out of nowhere from Bulgaria and joined the SDA church and was quickly kicked out. Koresh attended a few SDA services with his mom and told never to come back again. Houteff and Koresh both tried to hijacked a theology and change it for the worse. The whole Davidian movement was suspicious. That being said, what the government did was truly abominable.

[@ethanweeter2732]

No, they were trying to prevent another Jonestown. Really, Koresh was no better than Jim Jones. At least Jones maybe did not rape young girls and beat children, though he became a murderer of course.

[@edwardramirez8550]

Imagine having to bring M1A1 Abraham Tanks, M1A3 Patton Tanks, M1A1 Bradley Infantry fighting vehicles, Helicopters to Murder Men , Women and Children!

[@History-Valley]

This is amazing.

[@JamesTaborVideos]

Truly. If you want me to come on and talk about this after you absorb some of the story we can likely work out a time.

[@History-Valley]

@@JamesTaborVideos Yes, I would like to arrange that whenever your schedule permits.

[@GnosticInformant]

Looking foward to more from this channel

[@michaelsclark]

@@JamesTaborVideos have you ever talked to Alex Jones about Waco i heard he actually donated materials to rebuild the church but i don't know who owns the property or if it ever happened

[@justarandomname420]

The government will do the same thing to you and your family

[@sadieandersen9993]

Loved that the song was put at the end.

[@delfimoliveira8883]

Amazing. Tx to posting it

[@UpTheRa007]

Never forget ATF on April 19 1993 raised a Battle Flag over the burned body’s of women and children #Sickening

[@Skankhunter420]

They've been doing it for 100 years

[@mikewendland4982]

Listening to this makes me angry about it all over again. Regardless of what Korish did or didn't do to those kids was not enough to pull off the Military raid that was. If I remember at that time the ATF was weaponized as were other agencies and they couldn't wait to get their jollies off on what they thought would be a soft target - innocent people!

[@rtanidean4931]

When anyone uses the term, “Training / Trained”, be very very cautious! Step back & use discernment. The “Govt” is NOT a person! It is a label. People should be aware, intellectual & mindful / heart centered as to what they follow, and DO, including “orders.” “Believing” is a very slippery slope. YOU, ME, WE, are responsible for whatever we do. TRUST YOU. Be accountable for actions. Thank you. Best to all! D

[@TaraConti]

I hope you don't mind if I piggyback on your comment. I did post it but I've noticed that if I also post it in someone else's comment it's more likely to stay up. If you'd like me to remove it just let me know. Your comment is 100% on point! 👍 Also watch D a y 5 1 the true story of w a c o & particularly 00:23:06 then go watch this kzbin.info/www/bejne/roKaaXh7r66Wg5I Now Ft. Sill is pretty much a straight shot up to Chicago. 🤷‍♀️ Then make up your own mind. By the way yesterday Chicago had 45 people shot in 11hrs. I believe one cop was killed & another is in the hospital. I'm not sure of the officers condition. Honestly I don't even know if this comment will show up because I linked the two videos on the fox news channel but it's not showing up. I have two accounts so I can see what's posting & what's not. I know by posting this it may come off as CT ish but oh well just form your own conclusions.

[@rtanidean4931]

Ps… WHY was the ATF really there??? Claim of illegal auto firearms? Bull 💩. Again, Bull 💩. Ugh. Who did the davidians or Koresh harm? Umm… crickets??? Anyone??? 🤣 Pss… Plz excuse the spark casm, I mean, sarcasm. My battery shorts out when hearing 💩. Just typing.

[@millantronni3242]

"WHY was the ATF really there???" "Claim of illegal auto firearms?" "Bull 💩. Again, " Did they not have firearms ? "Who did the davidians or Koresh harm?" That was not the initial reason for going there.

[@rtanidean4931]

@@millantronni3242 ok then WHAT or WHY were they there then?? Plz answer that question from the state of KNOWING, not claims that are unsubstantiated. Please! I really will it to know the answer to that question!! Why then? Thx. D

[@millantronni3242]

@@rtanidean4931 ATF suspected that they was stockpiling illegal weapons, modifying guns to have illegal automatic fire capability and that David in specific was having sex with girls at age 12 and 13. So ATF legally got a search warrant based on the suspicion of illegal automatic fire capability and went to the compound. Now, regardless of what happen the first hour. After hour 1 day 1, David had the opportunity every second, to end the siege by giving up, but instead he and his stupid "soldiers of god" made choices so everyone died. Even when published and broadcasted his ceremony, which David require before they would give up, he did not give up, instead he got a revelation that he should wait. What a dishonest little prick. Was the warren illegal? Sort it out afterwards Did ATF use excessive force at entry? If so, sort it out afterwards. David have the full responsibility how this played out in the end. There is absolute no excuse for him, he should be remembered as a selfish mass murder who's only interest was to manipulate people. Because of this selfish prick David and his refusal to give up and is solely responsible how it ended Timothy McVeigh was inspired to do Oklahoma City bombing.

[@rtanidean4931]

@@millantronni3242 Hi there. Nicely done & thank you for responding! “Suspicion” is NOT fair imho. One either has rock solid evidence or they do not. Period. While i 100% agree with your resolve on David Koresh being EQUALLY responsible for the tragic outcome, I humbly trust that the ATF / FBI or ANY LEGAL enforcement agency could have and should have handled that so called suspicious activity much much better using WISDOM!! After the fact, & “Sorting it out later / afterwards” IS a total cop out! Again, I agree that Koresh was a religious dogma inspired fool full of ego and fortitudes that totally discounted the best in all of us; being certain to use WISDOM to preserve life, especially women & children in the better part of valor & moral principles. You get it, I know you do. If they had - “Warrantable PROOF”, that is justified, yet still could have been handled 100% different by ALL!! Let us cut the crap here…. ALL of those enforcement agencies & personnel KNEW there were women & children in harms way. THAT IS fundamentally factual. Leo’s are amazing people to my personal knowledge. The people of enforcement those days at Waco KNEW their actions were unwise. The entire narrative of following “orders” that are knowingly (as a human being), & truly risk innocent lives IS an atrocity of moral foundation in each person. For the enforcement agencies & Koresh… SHAME on ALL of them. Period. Thx again for responding & your comment. Enjoy your day. D

[@millantronni3242]

@@rtanidean4931 "“Suspicion” is NOT fair imho. One either has rock solid evidence or they do not." I am not an expert on the legal system, but to get a warren, suspicion is probably enough. "yet still could have been handled 100% different by ALL!!" It created changes, in 1996, the Montana Freemen, was handled differently, here they just sieges, made no attempt to force their way in but only talked and freemen gave up after 81 days.

[@patrickkocha2680]

Who came with the gang of people with guns to a place with kids and women there was no reason at all for that completely 100 percent in the wrong on then what took place the gang of people with guns were after one person in that building they could of grabbed him off that property anytime so that makes them 100 percent killers of kids baby's and women are worth criminals in gangs that we have on our streets don't even do things like this they'll wait to grab their guy that they're after and not take out his family and children

[@elainafaust3717]

Fascinating. I have to object to the characterization that those who object to cults can't define them. I appreciate the healthy dose of skepticism, but there's been a good amount of dialogue about this topic, mostly lead by Steven Hassan, that has been able to distinguish simple "fringe" or new religious movements from dangerous cults. Those seem to me to be important conversations that I'm surprised that this panel doesn't seem to be aware of.

[@RobespierreThePoof]

I see not all of your videos are about biblical archeology. I'll probably stick to those, but this incident was big news during my childhood, and it's been heavily politicized so I shall give it a listen during my commute. I have a fairly dim view of religious movements that embrace apocalypticism.

[@Skankhunter420]

Let him make videos of whatever he likes. He's a professor.

[@sakkel.7357]

Was watching new tv-serie today called "Waco The Aftermath" and it made me think: What was the role of Israel in all of this? I mean, the name "Branch Davidian", the flag with the star of David (btw, what was the flags message; what did it tell and stand for?) then they traveled yearly to Israel to study (to study what, with who and was their teachings and beliefs originating from Israel, were they been brainwashed to a cult in Israel?)

[@phillyjill3164]

Israel was significant to Branch Davidians a break off sect of Seventh Day Adventists bc of it's role in the end times prophecy the Book of Revelation 7 seals of the apocalypse...

[@jaybee4118]

The bible has its origins in the Jewish faith and there’s lots of religious places for Judaism, Islam AND Christianity there. So yeah, of course there’s connections to Israel and many Christians visit there. Some sects of Christianity believe that Israel is important to the second coming etc. None of that means the state of Israel have anything to do with it. This comment just comes across as anti-semitism.

[@CCRyder-df9xf]

The song at the end added to the sadness. Perhaps beware of actors and musicians with an ego to grind.

[@davidnelson6874]

Wow! Koresh made an absolute mess out of Rev 10. Some of the ideas are right but horribly misapplied. Rev 10 is not a complicated chapter to understand eschatology wise. He injects himself INTO the Bible states “Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.” He tries to insert his spin and even himself into everything. He was probably sincere since it’s seems unlikely that someone would devote so much time into investigation would likely be somewhat sincere. My question is who did he encounter on his trip to Israel? If I remember correctly, when he came back he was like a different person. Why? Was someone intentionally injecting new ideas into the Davidian theology?

[@CC-ff7ft]

I never knew that about his trip to Israel, Thanks , I'll have a look into that.

[@ethanweeter2732]

I think Koresh had a Messiah complex, if you will. In his warped mind, he was Jesus from the House of David and that made him the Messiah. Probably heavy drug use, including LSD and maybe cocaine. He also preached no dairy products and certain foods were wrong to eat, so many members likely had issues caused by poor nutrition, including children too.

[@ethanweeter2732]

Also, Waco is a very Christian town because Baylor University is located there, which is a Methodist university. By the way, don’t blame religion, blame David Koresh and anyone foolish enough to follow him like he was the Messiah. The people that died defending him were idiots and should have had their children taken away from them.

[@tcb6857]

@@ethanweeter2732 That's an awful lot of speculation.

[@rodgerfrego]

@@ethanweeter2732 that’s incorrect.

[@patrickkocha2680]

This all what happened b 4 time of everyone having very good cameras be a whole different story if they would have had a camera system on the outside of their building

[@dmacrolens]

Thanks!!!

[@thelawfus]

Does the sound not work? After the 911 tape, the interview has no sound.

[@JamesTaborVideos]

It is fine at my end...not sure what or why you are experiencing this problem...As you can see it has 14K views...I suggest rebooting computer or trying another browser...hope you can work it out.

[@stevenv6463]

I can hear it fine

[@thelawfus]

@@JamesTaborVideos thank you, it does indeed work. And thank you, Prof. Tabor for all your work.

[@green856w]

How might the World be without religion, or religious movements?

[@lennyjohnson9331]

All I know is that I seen a interview with a follower who said that Davids 2nd hand man was Steve Snyder , & his age was the same as a Steve Snyder I knew , &who was a pastors son & happened to skip twice grades & complete high school years early, he was in my Sunday school class in Gallup NM , his dad was a are pastor , Lutheran church, from 7yrs old to 14yrs old until my family moved to Flagstaff az ,back then I had absolutely not interested back then

[@Skankhunter420]

That's wild!

[@onionsavoya1506]

If god did sin If you step on an ant To the ant your a sinner But you may not even notice. If god kills did he sin? He breathed the very life into that which died.

[@lennyjohnson9331]

I just yesterday a video of this situation , & spelled out & the Steve Snyder knew last name is spelled differently , what a oddity ?

[@wanchooo29]

Why no sound??

[@ElkoJohn]

Well done.

[@kennedymcgovern5413]

This is difficult to watch, due to the task of fast forwarding past the sociology guy. How does a "science" of bias confirmation guy get invited to something like this? Is he the dean's nephew or something?

[@01mustang05]

1:42 "And American history was changed." - How is that not an unreasonable and/or an illogical declaration that doesn't cast doubt of anything that is claimed next? Semantics? - Maybe. Does it matter? - Yes it does!

[@delfimoliveira8883]

There is no sound so i had to read the legends nevertheless it worth while and since i am a Portuguese im used to legends 😁

[@JamesTaborVideos]

There is definitely sound. You must have it muted.

[@delfimoliveira8883]

@@JamesTaborVideos Eheheh you are right silly me 😁

[@dsoule4902]

Why April 19th?

[@ReLair88]

Woodstock was in 1969. Where did you get 1994?

[@darrellludlow]

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woodstock_%2794

[@ReLair88]

@@darrellludlow That's like saying the commemoration of 9/11 was actually 9/11.

[@Skankhunter420]

😆😆😆😆😆

[@ChurchofPhillyWatch]

Jesus Said IT IS FINISHED... Period

[@rtanidean4931]

Pss… “doing his duty!” Nice. He meant to say , “I was under a SPELL from sorcerers!” “Duty” is a spell of mind control to get someone to do, and try to justify, what they would NOT do in their own free WILL!” Again people… Do, act and trust YOU! If you wouldn’t do something of your own free will, then why are you willing to do it? “Duty” is doing what you KNOW to be justified. “Universal Law”: “Do NO harm to another or their property’s!” Pretty simple really. The “Golden Rule” takes precedence! Thx. Done commenting now. Best. D

[@dionst.michael1482]

Nobody needed to perish. That’s the sad part

[@hansjohan3150]

Say that to Vietnamees, Iraqees, Afghanien and Lybian people!

[@dadedowuh]

Jesus wasn't pathetic! How dare you!!

[@Skankhunter420]

He wasn't driving a Bentley.

[@Penetratetheevening]

No..the guy said prophetic , not pathetic

[@markrossow6303]

I remember when it happened --

[@ChurchofPhillyWatch]

@57:00 ermmm ok this is why he was wrong

[@jasenalford9021]

My hope is that the ones that have done wrong and also lied to cover up all the wrong all the way from the top down to the ones on the ground burn in Hell for eternity for causing the death of those sweet little children!!!!

[@darrellludlow]

Janet Reno never suffered any consequences for ordering the massacre.

[@CTimmerman]

9:50 - Sounds like a destiny easily arranged by swatting yourself and shooting at the SWAT. I'd follow most prophets and rejoice that we delayed Judgement Day instead.

[@charlesglaser4868]

A Collective Salvation? Good luck with that!!

[@Tracysbrokenwing]

2:18:27 mk ultra, operation paperclip, blue bird, the stanford project... but we're all conspiracist.

[@hansjohan3150]

It's all about controlling the mass.

[@Tracysbrokenwing]

@@hansjohan3150 I can agree to that

[@hansjohan3150]

@@Tracysbrokenwing and now it's preparing the mass, for mass-distrucktion

[@onionsavoya1506]

Only the holy spirit can reveal the truth.

[@lennyjohnson9331]

This alarms me , Isaiah 40 , Rev CHP 10 & the face n the cloud I seen under the rainbow & enormous sounding lighting bolts that completely defined physics &I was messing with my stereo , new used car with a bose sound system , and what I seen was extremely intimating , then the 2ever time open a Bible directly to rev chp 10 , ? I consider that day to be born again , Aug 25 04 , & this written riddle b4 Katrina storm I put , out of the blue , will come #2 but can't stop it no matter what u do, for it's a 100 times more powerful than u the 1st &only other written riddle was previously from 12/26/2/04 prediction , & were 2 out of the 72 times , double dozes as I like to reference to it , in comparison to it & personally I thought it was a coincidence , so I tested over &over &over but use a single dose ,& within 72 hr s rain out 72 hrs , OMG ! , lion of the tribe of Judah u say? This is getting to much I can't listen no more

[@nicolascanale4877]

We NEED Trump so badly..

[@jeffreygunther3332]

I am so sick of listening to arm chair quarterbacks. It's amazing how these idiots come out of the woodwork after a tragic event to declare that if someone would of listened to them then the tragic event would not of happened. It compares to how when you are pulled over by a policeman and you get a ticket, the idiots riding with you wait until after the policeman has left before they criticize you and declare how they would of handled the situation differently.

[@Well-thatmakessense]

I suppose, but I can't remember getting pulled over, shot and lit on fire. Other than that, same thing, right?

[@DenofBarjack]

@@Well-thatmakessensealso gassed with Tear Gas first

[@Skankhunter420]

You have less than ideal friends if that's been your experience buddy.

[@justmedee1959]

😭

[@01mustang05]

It was and still is more than a "tragedy", isn't it. All these mentalities and human activities exist even today in America, don't they. And the rest of North America is just as bad, only in slightly different ways then and is still now, isn't it. This study does NOT cover what really all happened does it - is there analysis and best guess of human indifferences, presumptuous assumed authority, abuses of authority, immaturity, unreasonableness, incompetence, disrespect, contempt, and more - that was going on for a reason that we ought to know better by now but don't? Child abuses and poisoning makes a mess out of humanity, doesn't it? What are we doing here, what are we accomplishing? Are we going to try and fix the problem(s) that cause the majority of human created problems or no? Are we too far gone? Do we support child abuses by failing to end them? Hearing thoughts and opinions are great as long as they are not passed off as absolute fact in so many instances. I think the true reality for many things judged in the video are false because there is no way of truly knowing someone's thoughts and feelings because we can't read people's minds, we don't always know people are telling the truth, we were not involved to know best, and we don't always know the words people choose to use actually best describes their feelings and/or their perceptions of events - that can and often does throw off out ability to understand. And how much good really, are laws and judgements and this way of life when basically all of us are not taking very good care of innocent and helpless children in actuality - which has been going on for generation ya?

[@rodgerfrego]

They go after Koresh for not having a $25 permit, yet Hunter Biden remains free.

[@ChurchofPhillyWatch]

The wife the Bride is the remnant

[@leatherfacey2k]

every agent that participated in this should burn in hell

[@ChAdAshleyHedgePetH]

One sided.

[@georgeallan6550]

Propaganda.

[@RobespierreThePoof]

It's sad that you can't recognize what rational scholarly conversation looks like.

[@georgeallan6550]

They got you fooled, not me. @@RobespierreThePoof

[@williamwatashe8258]

No wonder this doc is two hours long scolers sitn on their assis

[@millantronni3242]

After hour 1 day 1, David had the opportunity every second to end the siege, but instead he made choices so everyone died. He have the full responsibility how this played out in the end.

[@michaelsclark]

Yes fully trust yr government get your shots they are looking out for your best interests

[@millantronni3242]

@@michaelsclark " Yes fully trust yr government" Absolutely not, the government should obey the laws created by the society, the society is made up by the people. The people is the one that is forming the society. " get your shots they are looking out for your best interests " Got both already, I hope you get yours as well so you might not contribute to others death.

[@ChurchofPhillyWatch]

@@millantronni3242 people that have received the shot CAN transmit...so no thank you

[@ChurchofPhillyWatch]

@@millantronni3242 the point Michael makes is that the govt NO longer even considers We The People

[@millantronni3242]

@@ChurchofPhillyWatch "people that have received the shot CAN transmit...so no thank you" Yes, that is why you should keep the mask

[@anthonylewis62]

Koresh was a nutt period! inventing his own personal religion just as jim jones did, leading people to their own ruin!

[@almac664]

You didn't listen to this video.

[@michaelsclark]

He was a Christian but keep drinking the kool aid

[@almac664]

@@michaelsclark who was that directed to? If you were speaking to me, please state what kind of kool-aid you think I am drinking. This should be interesting because, by my statement to the author of this thread, you don't have any idea of what I believe or think about anything because I never made a statement of belief. I simply stated a fact about their post, they didn't watch the video because their statement is false at its beginning. The Branch Davidian religion has a 150 year history; but go ahead and tell me what kool-aid you think I'm drinking. If you're talking too the author.... your statement doesn't make sense; but it isn't any of my business, therefore I don't care why you said what you said. lol

[@01mustang05]

@@almac664 You had no good right to make such a presumptuous and hypocritical accusation against "the author of this thread". - You also didn't specify what you meant by typing "listen"! You have NO PROOF that anthony lewis didn't hear and/or pay attention to this video"! And anthony lewis doesn't have to believe these abused and damaged people abusing and damaging people! anthony lewis doesn't have to do whatever others advize to do, either. Do you not know english very well? Do you not know how messed up and harmful you are? - From your other comment to michael s. clark, I reasonably think you don't, not realize you expose yourself as a lier - like claiming you don't care while making the effort to make more accusations by declaring michael's "statement doesn't make sense. And you moch with "LOL" so it's likely you will deny wrongdoing and reality and continue on as you corruptly see fit as intended by the elite corrupt. So fk me, fk you, and fk us all right; fkn'ell - And this is why innocent and helpless children continue to be abused and damaged - because people like you are so damaged, stubborn, corrupt, presumptuous, negligent, and more. Criminal!

[@michaelbranscum2363]

You obviously didn't watch even the first 5 minutes. Which would lead one to believe you've drawn your own conclusions often. Meaning your opinion is rather quite shite.