The 2 MAIN Outer Gods of the DLC - Elden Ring Lore Explained

[@capollyon]

Crucible is not an Outer-God. It lacks all characteristics of Outer-god, foremost it lacks agenda, ideology, desires and goals. Which are all characteristics of all outer-gods we know. Crusible is technically an evolution. A primordial force of all life, everchanging and eternal. I do not think that Hornsent worshipped Crucible as god, it looks more that they tried to create a god of their own.

[@johndavis29209]

What is the agenda of the god of rot? What about the sun realm referenced in the sun realm shield? I don't think those are criteria for an outer god to exist, I think they just need to be in control of a certain nature of the world.

[@kuromori8877]

Yeah its like the crucible is the board they compete to write their ideologies on their views on how life should function

[@capollyon]

@@johndavis29209 obviously each god is trying to get followers. The Goddess of Rot has her pests and in Ceelid we see the world she would create if she had the opportunity. So they all have agenda, which we do not understand but crucible is never mentioned as outer-god because it is not.

[@matteoflamigni550]

The Outer Gods are never mentioned to have an agenda, or ideology, or will, at all..... unless you'd call a god of rain's basic intent "to rain" as "having an agenda". Though I agree Crucible is not an OG.

[@BFG93]

I think the crucible is much like stated, it's a primordial source. Erdtree pre golden order was a grand lifeform so huge I imagine gave the idea of a god to hornsents As the game took inspiration from Nordic mythos we can associate the erdtree and one tree. And the crucible is depicted in stone work to have grown from the crucible. I think if the erdtree being later coated in gold from its original white bark, with the Marika ascension it became a symbol of the order. And pinnacle divine force replacing the power and place the crucible once held in lands between to the point it was condemned. Life will be design and not left to chaos. Which fits Marika's ambitions as the worshippers of the crucible went to the extent of melding flesh. A barbaric and chaotic ritual.

[@falgalhutkinsmarzcal3962]

My crazy theory is that the Crucible is magical keratin, which is a helix protein that composites horns, feathers, hair, hooves, fingernails, scales, claws, talons, and keeps skin healthy. There are different sects for every manifestation of keratin in-game. The Hornsent are obviously for horns, as are the rams, all horned things, and the Ancestral Followers. The various Serpents are made of scales. The feathers are for the Twinbird and the Stormhawks. The claws are for Lions and Beastmen. The Godskins clearly obsess over the skin aspect of keratin, skinning gods. As for hair, the braids are important to many factions. Metyr and the Fingers clearly are oriented toward fingernails (and even have fingernail sorceries now). Funnily, keratin keeps skin and hair healthy and young. As you age your keratin production decreases. Here is the kicker: as we age, and experience decreased keratin production, our body retains less moisture. Think of gold-tinged and hornsent excrement and its flavor text: "it does not dry out or lose its customary warmth or scent". As we age the bacterial breakdown of keratin alters our body odor, making it smell worse. Yet, the gold excrement and horn excrement remains moist and retains the same smell forever. The reason I think keratin is important is because the "antlers" of the Ancestral Spirits are NOT true antlers (ie, made of calcium). They are described as "antler-like horns", which seems a very strange distinction to make unless keratin is important. Another thing to consider is a different Crucible: the Crucible of Chitin. Chitin composites the exoskeletons of insects (like beetles, butterflies, ants), arachnids (spiders and SCORPIONS), crustaceans, and the cell walls of fungi (MUSHROOMS). Where is Chitin mentioned in-game? In relation to the Kindred of Rot. What spawns from the Scarlet Rot? Kindred and fungi. The Spirit Ash of Kindred states they are "chitinous". Curiously, snail shells are made of calcium carbonate, but we have no indicator if the snake-snails have calcium shells or not. We see skeletal snails, bit cannot really know if the shells are the same as the bones.

[@soldiergigas14]

Nice theory mate😉

[@Bodielane]

I think this theory is awesome!

[@tropezando]

I'm just so happy to see something new! I will counter that many dead spirits/bodies sprout mushrooms, not just rot-affiliated ones.

[@falgalhutkinsmarzcal3962]

@@tropezando right. Mushrooms have chitin in their cell walls, and Rot is natural to the Lands Between, which is why fungi grow there, just like in the real world. I think Scarlet Rot is an accelerated version of Natural Rot; a repressed form that is more virulent because it is repressed. As for growing from spirits, it is hypothesized that all spirits that are not Omen or Hornsent are connected to the Erdtree and its roots (as a metempsychosis machine), and as a consequence the spirits grow spirit mushrooms along that arboreal network. Evidently anything can come to be in a spirit form in the Lands Between, including headstones (as seen in the dlc). Mushrooms are no different, especially when growing on a spirit. It should be of note, too, that mushrooms feed on ashes, too, and some only propagate in forest fires. Spirit Ashes are literally Spirits made by burning bodies to ashes (unless I am mistaken). This may be why spirit mushrooms grow from spirits.

[@fernandosalamanca1154]

I like crazy theories in general, and I love this theory in particular, so thank you! The image of the horn as a primordial life force always spoke to me so much in games and art, and this might be the exact reason why.

[@NorthstriderGaming]

I believe the term Outer God doesn't apply here anymore when these forces are native to these lands. They are original powers, so calling them either forces or straightup gods may be the better approach. The outer gods need a champion to channel their powers, which is probably why they are called Outer Gods - they are unable to directly interfere with the world and require a vessel. The Greater Will needed Marika, the Formless Mother needed Mohg, the Frenzied Flame needs a vessel, The God of Rot needed Malenia. They all needed a champion while the Cruicible does not. Anyone can channel its powers, just as anyone can join the deathrite birds if they pass the ritual. So I think they are not outer gods - they are native gods.

[@shmillbe3390]

Yeah I fucks with that

[@castlesbard1547]

Honestly, even calling them gods still doesn't seem right. As the crucible, like you said, is more akin to a force. A scientific aspect of the world that the Hornsent use as a religious piece to excuse their atrocities. Since unlike all the other actual gods, the crucible (as far as I know) doesn't have an actual will or thought.

[@braedenaldridge8452]

Well said. I am of the same mindset on this.

[@Bladings]

To further expand on that; You could say that the Outer Gods are all forces that are not of Marika's Order (or the Greater Will's Order). They are forces outside "normal" intended creation, unchained by the Elden Ring, but also unable to directly interfere with it. On the other hand, forces such as life, and death, are part of this order. Thus, these are not outer gods, but rather forces of nature. Thanks for coming to my ted talk.

[@edgebringr3494]

Which brings to say, what is a god? Does it have to be a literal entity? Or can it be something more, like the Force in Star Wars.

[@Xenos369]

The influence seen by the Crucible may be far older than the Hornsent. Its possible that Bayle and the Drakes were touched by the crucible. During Bayle's fight he seems to generate magical wings (similar to crucible knights summoning wings), and he has several horns all over his head and body. Additionally his heart is covered in horns as well. The drakes also have different aspects of the crucible, Feathers, scales, horns, and their adaptability to their environment. The farum azula elden ring (which may have existed before the erdtree) has a prominent caduceus.

[@varsedo]

Actually, Bayle creates his wings like the Dragonkin soldier who used ice lightning

[@thefreshvince879]

@@varsedo bayle is the progenitor of all dragonkin and drake warriors, they all come from him

[@varsedo]

@@thefreshvince879 I’m only comparing the two, not saying one came from the other

[@Mugen-bc9fs]

​@@varsedothis doesn't necessarily negate the theory though 🤔 If you think of the thread of the crucible running through dragonkind it makes sense.

[@Xenos369]

@@varsedo Perhaps. Tho the dragonkin soldier's wings look like its physically erupting from its back, rather than magical. Its cloak is partially wrapping around the wings as it flies

[@Writh811]

I view the Crucible not as an Outer God but more so a terrestrial equivalent to the Elden Ring. I say Terrestrial because the power of the Crucible comes from the life that originates on the world while the power of the Elden Ring was literally sent down from Space. As weird as it sounds the best way I can put it is to quote the Great Sellen: "Glintstone is the amber of the cosmos, golden amber contains the remnants of ancient life and houses its vitality" But replace "Glintstone" with "Elden Ring" and its "amber" with "power" then replace "Golden Amber" with "The Crucible" and "remnants" with "power" (The Elden Ring is the power of the cosmos, The Crucible contains the power of ancient life and houses its vitality) Sellen was on to something she may not have realized. Graven rituals and jar saints start to look similar when you break it down.

[@the_hazzy]

I agree. Ever since they mentioned a crucible current (in Spira incantation I think) I immediately thought of the Primeval Current. The Crucible maybe just an offshoot, a branch of The Cosmic Primeval Current. While The PC gives ligfe to stars and being like Asteel or possibly Crystalians, the Crusible here, in Lands Between gives life to familiar carbon-based lifeforms like plants and animals. The jars and graven rituals similarities also made me think on how in Miyazakis games different people interpret same thing compeltely differently. In Demon's Souls sorcerers and clerics hated each other, while technically both drawing their power from the Old One, with incantations and sorceries being the same thing. It could be the same thing here with crucible worshippers and astrologers, both relating to some form of lifegiving currents, either cosmic (primeval) or local (crucible).

[@Writh811]

@@the_hazzy It's interesting to me that the Hornsent also have no Elden Ring iconography in their culture. They use the spiral branding in the same way as the Erdtree uses the Elden Ring. The age of the Crucible seems to be characterized by a lot of gods (tutalary deities as example) and no Elden Ring veneration. This leads me to believe Placidusax's age is so much further in the past than any of us realize. As a matter of fact, the Farum Azula depiction of the Elden Ring seems to indicate the Crucible and the Elden Ring were conjoined in Placidusax's age (the spiral in the middle).

[@EnglishAaron]

​@@Writh811maybe that is just symbolic of the alliance between leyndelle and the ancient dragons too though. Could be that elden ring is a universe that loops so one day both will merge back again.

[@Writh811]

@@EnglishAaron When I lore hunting I tend to favor Occam's Razor. What is the simpler answer? The most direct answer with fewest assumptions for me is "Hornsent didn't put the Elden Ring on everything because they didn't venerate it." The Hornsent culture is very devout, lots of gods, lots of things done in the name of their faith. They cover their culture in the spiral of the Crucible. They had numerous gods but none are presented as associated with the Elden Ring. Heck, even in Godfrey's time when they focused their worship directly at the Erdtree, its symbols contained the Elden Ring. Incantations of Godfrey's Crucible Knights who served the Erdtree have the Elden Ring in their spell icons. The concession for their friendship with the Ancient Dragons was permission to establish their cult within the Lands Between. The loser of a war doesn't get to put their logo on everything. That's the winner's prize. The concept of a loop in this world is unfounded at this point. If anything everything is on a perpetual decline. Things are getting further divided and becoming smaller and weaker for it. We see this at play with the various states of the Elden Ring. The shrinking nature of giants into trolls and in someplaces into humans (Kaidens). Think about that, we started at the "Old Gods" (Massive giant corpses) and now we're here.

[@Mugen-bc9fs]

😮 nice.

[@kuromori8877]

Everything u said is solid yeah the themes in the world should always be put into consideration But the crucible never seemed like an outer god if the crucible is life then its what the outer gods are trying to take over to enforce their views on life,death and how they should work

[@Kmaaq]

My favorite explanation of the crucible is from Scum Mage Infa, which is that the crucible is a catalyst that transforms death to power, and that there are many types of crucibles

[@nickperri6571]

About to watch his video on the jar shaman Marika saved, he does good work

[@luxnox5891]

Random note, the red flowers found around Charo's grave are identical to real world red spider lillies. A flower that in Japanese/other East-Asian cultures is associated with the dead and cemeteries.

[@reactionality8464]

I’ve been recently toying with the idea that the crucible isn’t a god, but more a pantheon of natural gods like Shinto deities. I think marika’s great betrayal had to do with her usurping the natural order and forcing a sort of monotheism with the golden order and greater will. I think it’s also why so many of her children are vassals of outer gods, I think it’s these natural forces trying to insert themselves back into the world the same way the Elden beast inserts itself through marika.

[@Mugen-bc9fs]

Yeeeeessssss I was saying this exact thing. The greater powers native to the lands between incarnating in her line as a means of correcting her usurpation. It's still just a theory but it feels like it's got legs.

[@yok9990]

the hornsent spirits clasp their hands past eachother forming a spiral when they're praying - really cool detail

[@ravendelacour1917]

The dual spiral possesses one spiral for life heading upward, a second spiral downward to represent death. The balance between them is where everything exists.

[@froggie610]

I don't actually agree with the Crucible being an outer god, I'd like to think that the Crucible is like a big bang, being a conception of absolute vitality in life that the hornsent worship as a spiral. Additionally, there are many different interpretations of the Crucible, like how the knights of it see it as a spiral tree or great tree. The lore item that says that the Crucible is like a current may refer to the flow of energy that vitalizes all life. Almost to a cancerous degree, as seen in the omen and hornsent horns. Perhaps ghost flame was used to put a end to people who have lived too long? At least long enough to have their blood impure?

[@beansnrice321]

Personally I've noticed many connections to ancient Egyptian mythology and one of the greatest is the sun god Aten. Aten is usually depicted as a solar disk surrounded with run rays and each ray terminates with a hand. Sometimes the hands are holding ankhs, which are the Egyptian symbol of life. So I suspect that the main god is an Aten-like greater will and that Metyr is a cut of hand from one of Aten's rays. Egypt has also had more than a few Gods of death, Anubis was replaced with Osiris, for example. So maybe Godwyn was chosen as a replacement for the old god of death? I also suspect that canoptic jars, which were used for storing the organs of mummies, are similar to the jars filled with innards.

[@Mugen-bc9fs]

Bro 🤔 very interesting. I appreciate your candor this is an interesting little puzzle piece

[@larb6314]

The sun seems to be tied to the fell god imo, with the flame of the fell god resembling a sun

[@Ämyr2006]

I was scrolling through my inventory today and saw the serpents gods sword and then realised messmer is basically malenia in terms of how his curse works

[@Mugen-bc9fs]

Bingo bango 🤙

[@ArchonZach]

The Crucible feels to me more like mother nature than anything else, something native to land twisted by outside forces

[@marsinaresvt]

When we see Marika and Radagon in the erdtree, their skin is cracked like porcelain. Instead of being the meat inside the jars, they achieved sainthood by being the jar itself, with the meat being replaced by the great rune.

[@kitetales]

Oh hey buddy thank you for the little video rec cameo!! 💙 That's a really interesting idea of the Crucible being an outer god; possible "face" reveal of it on the crucible knights armor?!

[@MadLuigi]

Especially with the hammer, that could be! And yeah of course! I ended up seeing your Marika/sash video while working on this one and then with the braids video as well I was like oh dang I have to at least reference these as they add so much depth to the topic (and I wasn't going to fully explore them myself + the find about Marika's statue in Messmer's room was sick)

[@zeorhymer6]

Basically, Marika is a god created by mortal hands. In doing so, all of her offspring are defective because of the source of her creation.

[@Thedunguen9999]

Godwyen wasn’t defected

[@Shino2288]

I was about to mention Godwyn as well

[@momentarysmut]

you mad luigi , i like

[@MadLuigi]

thank u

[@agm5424]

Is "saint" the hornsent's word for empyrian?

[@Shotzeethegamer]

The crucible is DNA. You know, the thing encodes the possibility of all life 🧬

[@heatwave0]

Regarding the Crucible, I think 1 thing you have missed is that there is another God in Ancient Tower Lore called "The Mother of all Crucibles".

[@shinime8885]

honestly I always thought the crucible was just how the erdtree and its function were labelled by an ancient religion before the arrival of the golden order, and that it was just pretty much the same thing under a new name

[@andresouzar]

The godslayer greatsword is also an spiral has anyone made a lore on that yet?

[@Ironbreeze53]

It’s a cyclical cycle of ages/eras dictated by the Elden lord. Frenzied flame burns & melts everything together, back to the One Great. Once separated The greater will began to forged life from the crucible from which everything else still remained. As time progressed life branched out,🌳, becoming increasingly more ordered, complex, & specific. Eventually order will become unsustainable and begin the cycle anew.

[@BrassPetals3Voices]

Its an interesting take! The twin birds can be said to be 2 of the 3 parts needed to make a god. They represent the separation of soul (the mind, essence of a person located in the head) and spirit (the formless 'outer god' essence that can travel between life/death and blends with the soul and binds it to the body). The physical remains can retain some residue of the spirit or soul, animating or controlling the body/form after death like Godwyn, and even after it rots like Putrescence. Both birds are part of Death, and are what give power to new gods - like Miquella (spirit), Radahn (soul), Mohg (body). They are the Mercury/Sulphur/Salt in alchemy.

[@TheConti95]

Not sure where to post this, first time I post some of my thoughts on Elden Ring lore. But I think that if Marika was actually the first (and only) success of living jars to create something more, maybe in the hospital below the black keep they're not trying to divide the shaman's flesh out of compassion, but it's Marika who is searching for a way to restore her previous self

[@michaelgrant4164]

the crucible doesn't match up to any gods it was the primordial disordered form of life itself it lacks will and influence, it just is. all of this is extensively clarified in numerous texts throughout the base game and dlc. also the crucible is entirely native to the lands between and cannot, by definition, be an outer god.

[@kr1spness]

The similarity between the Shaman Village and Jarburg, as well as the goal of Alexander to become a Champion while having red haired flesh within him, ha slead me to believe that he is the Jar that Marika/Radagon emerged from. Marika killed him in soul like Ranni did to Godwyn in order to ascend, but his body still lives on in flesh through Alexander and through Marika's body as a vessel.

[@barfrost007]

An interesting Crucible-Erdtree connection, to me, that may or may not have come up is that there's a description somewhere in the game that mentions the Crucible being a sort of primordial Erdtree (if I read it correctly), and given Marika's/Shaman's relationship to both trees and jars I thought it interesting that (at least symbolically) the Erdtree is a giant potted tree. It sort of feeds into the idea of the Erdtree era being dominated by Order and being allegorical to the advent of agriculture (wild forest vs orchard).

[@HuskeePlays]

I could be wrong, but wasn't there a hint at an almighty, singular diety called the One Great? What if the crucible is- or is a vessel or something of- the One Great, and all the other outer gods are really just more prominent aspects of the Crucible?

[@eprimchad2576]

The one great i think if im remembering correctly was what existed before anything existed, all of the universe was the one great, and then came fractures, and from it reality and the greater will was born, in a way everything is a vessel of the one great, and the crucible could definitely be a primordial energy left over from the original fracturing of the one great.

[@Mugen-bc9fs]

I was waiting for someone to do this video I been thinking something similar.

[@domewing2012]

The story trailer talked about the beginning: how gold arose and shadow was born. This, I think, must have been referring to the creation of the Erdtree and the Scadutree. And since several game items describe the Crucible as the primordial form of the Erdtree, my conclusion is that the Crucible was the name of a singular, upright spiral tree-like structure, which was split into the Scadutree and the Erdtree. This would explain why it is called the primordial form of the Erdtree but also has an association with the spiral form of the Scadutree. This also aligns with the game's allusions to alchemy, with the undesirable nigredo being separated in the process of making a pure gold. I would only call it an outer god if you would call the Erdtree and Scadutree Outer Gods as well.

[@juanogando1901]

You have to take account of structures and when things were built. Shadow keep is a new structure. How close certain groups were and also meteors crashing down.

[@kr1spness]

"Can you guess what the other main god could be?" Porbably not but I found the Outer God of Shadow mentioned only in Outer God Heirloom to be a big lore event no one mentions. A new God that was said to be found after the torturing of villages by the Hornsent, a God of vengeance and darkness sounds like it may be an antithesis to the Greater Will that spurred on Ranni.

[@iboofer]

It's heavily implied that god described in the talisman is the Formless Mother.

[@aifos5171]

The Crucible is never called an outer god, instead is said multiple times that it's the primordial form of the Erdtree (aspects of the Crucible incantations, Crucible knight set, Godskin noble set) where all life was once chaotically blended togheter, it's very reminiscent of the primordial chaos found in many creational myths. It originates from the Elden Ring which was sent by the Greater Will, so it's not an outer god but it's directly linked to the supreme deity of Elden Ring's world

[@ramz871]

Other thing What if the Marika/Radagon merge was a result of the Shamen merging?

[@matiasluukkanen7718]

Crucible, if anything, is tied to Greater Will, as it is primordial life-force of the world, and Greater Will seems to seed universe with it and lead it to ever greater evolution. Common theme is when civilization advances, primordial wildness of life gives away to tameness and domestication of civilization.

[@flunkiebubs2002]

I think the Crucible (Life) and Destined Death are both aspects of the Twinbird The upward rune arch of life and the downward rune arch of death are the twinbird’s wings

[@eprimchad2576]

I think people have conpletely lost the plot of what an outer god is, we learn in the dlc the "god of rot" isnt even a god but some form of revenge woven into a bud from those crusaded against by messmer, theyre not gods as much as they are spiritual acts of revenge, perhaps these outcries from the downtrodden literally create a god much like the cries of the merchants summoned the frenzied flame, but it seems apparent that the god of rot wasnt even an idea until romina made it so.

[@missingclerk]

I think you're right, and that the outer gods are essentially manifestations of sentient beings emotions, fears and thoughts. The spiral-design of the crucible draws heavily from the design of the god in Berserk, and that god is also a product of humanity's suffering and fears.

[@Mugen-bc9fs]

This is an interesting thought but I'd posit that the Outer Gods existed before they incarnated into mortals. Furthermore the rot must precede the rot goddess because the pests were there before her, right? Or did she create the pests? I've gotta get out in the field more but the Outer God discourse is getting real juicy 🤤

[@sclafantasy]

Interesting re: the god of rot. Also, I think you are right w/ regard to people perhaps bringing in their own biases when defining “gods” (hard not too though) and it may not have been the developers intention especially when factoring in cultural differences and potential translation issues.

[@ghostly_number]

Completely wrong, outer god means a god that does not belong to the lands. Even the greater will is an outer god. Frenzy flame already existed before the merchants persecution. Rot god has existed long before messmers crusade, the rot and its creations changed in form since malenia rejected it and rowina accepted them.

[@sclafantasy]

@@ghostly_number Define “belong to the lands”

[@wilreed8478]

I'm just going to guess that the two outer gods are Frenzy Flame and Scarlett Rott based on Bosses but I would have assumed the Formless Mother and Gloam Eyed Queen

[@GodSobu]

The term outer god insinuates that there is an inner god of the lands between. That inner god is the crucible. The crucible is life itself without order and the changes we see to the residents of the land between are literally due to the outer gods interference. That or the One Great and the Crucible are the same being.

[@gemgem396]

While I don’t think the Crucible is an Outer-God, I suspect that a more earthy god of the Crucible exists.

[@sniperfity2327]

If the crucible is a god then it is, the thoughts of blending and mixing and forging. Perhaps the missing sun?

[@dev4159]

the sun is not missing u can see it when the sky is clear

[@magimon91834]

There are grave birds all over the DLC and no one seems to be talking about it

[@pupely]

I think these lands are 100% related to death or they even are the afterlife dimension, it's just broken because Marika removed destined death, so she had to ask her son to go there and manually kill them burning their souls in his flames, which somehow work like the rune of death? What are base serpent connections to death? We know there is a death flame and dead were used to be burnt before Marika. In real life many cultures also used flames to burn dead before moving to coffins because of the Christianity, Romans were one of such cultures. There is a great video about that from Tarnished Archeologist. Also I don't remember exact video, but another creator talked about vampires and zombies becoming a part of our culture because people couldn't move so easily to new burrial rights and were creeped out by corpses lying around them. Marika (with her Jesus like imagery) brought monotheism to The Lands Between, prohibited burning corpses to fuel her tree and it led to zombie apocalypse because of the death roots. Yes, they exist because of half dead Godwyn, but ultimately Marika is responsible for everything that happened, and there are theories that she was also directly involved in Godwyn assassination. As Melina says, this world is in dire need of death indiscriminate. Melina is most likely a younger sister of Messmer, and she also bore a vision of fire.

[@benwil6048]

We get COOP summoned by the spiral, summon someone and see the spiral

[@ImpracticalShield]

i always figured the crucible was similar to the witch of izalith/bed of chaos/chaos flame, wehre its main power is creating life, to the point of life almost running rampant, creating mergings of multiple different creatures

[@jeffpritchard1592]

Hey I just want to say that I find myself agreeing with most of your points. In my view the big picture with respect to the Lands Between is that it is basically a sort of arena where the various "outer gods" vie for control with and against each other in a struggle that goes on over millennia. Every so often one of these gods gets the upper hand over the others. That's the basic structure. Contrary to many of the comments I've read here and elsewhere, I lump the "Greater Will" and even the "Crucible" in along with all the other gods. If there is a difference it seems to me that it lies in the fact that the Crucible, and even more recently the Greater Will, have proven to be recent victors in this ongoing contest for dominance, and that these victories have granted them increased influence. Quite naturally, beings in a position of dominance are going to use their increased power to promote the idea that they represent more fundamental and intrinsic forces than their competition. But I think that once we wrap our minds around what is going on in the really big picture, we can come to understand that this is just the sort of propaganda one would expect.

[@level1dodo896]

The crucible seems to be a man made concept put into practice via the making of the tower and the divine gate itself. I believe the tower and divine gate is a container of the crucibles current energy, also using untold multitudes of bodies

[@ChanchoWins]

Hi great video! I still believe than one of the main gods is the Greater Will. I believe this because you find the Night Set within the Bonny Gaol. My interpretation of this is that some of the shamans, absoluty deprived of light, in total darkness, reached the microcosm who showed them the words of ligth, which is the langauage of the fingers... Also, I believe that somehow Count Ymir, who's actualy a High Priest, is very aware of this process... :)

[@geohawk6337]

Horns of animals grow in a spiral pattern too. Great job friend.

[@crew_the3rd]

The zeroth dynasty was the age of Dragons. They had contact with the outer god of primordial raw power. They ruled for a time. Many peoples had kingdoms all over the Lands Between, never all unified, never all conquered. The Storm King, Raya Lucaria, Calid, Mountain top of the giants. The Shadow Lands were and are a part of the Lands Between. Merica vailed the Shadow Lands, separating it form the LB, no longer seen. This happened when she caused the third impact at the gate of divinity (see more info bellow). With that action she hid thousands of years of ancient history, almost completely lost. The first people to rise to power in the lands between were the dynasty of spirals, they created the spiral city (Enir Ilim). They worshipped the crucible which rose up as a Great spiraled tree. The spiraled people made the gate of divinity and caused the first impact, someone ascended to godhood by contacting an outer god, likely the god of spirals. They ruled for a time. Then the Knox people took over. They used the gate of divinity to cause the second impact. They contacted the outer god of Knox, this god had gravity defying power, someone ascended to godhood. The Knox added gravity defying architecture to the spiral city after taking it from the spiral dynasty. They kept the Great Sprial tree. The Knox dynasty (2nd) spread across the Lands Between establishing the cities of Knoxstella, Knoxron, and the Namless city. The horn sent were guided by the outer god of the crucible which now gave beast powers like horns and wings. The horn sent took over the spiraled city from the Knox. They took over the Sprialed Great tree. They started to get the gate of divinity ready to welcome the outer god of the crucible and (disordered) beast powers. But Merica, a slave, betrayed their hopes. As a slave Merica never had loyalty to the horn sent so this betrayal was one sided, for her it was just revenge. She also had Mesmer during a relationship with a serpent beast crucible being. Merica destroyed the horn sent's plans and did the exact opposite. She welcomed the outer god of order (the Greater Will) as opposed to the disordered horny crucible outer god. Merica took over, she sacrificed the hornsent at the gate of divinity, she caused the third impact by contacting the outer god of the Greater Will of Golden Order, and ascended to godhood. She did not conquer the spiraled city from the horn sent, no she wanted to destroy all previous history, all previous dynasties erased, she was going to start over, new and fresh, with the Greater Will. She would restructure the Lands Between and fully conquer it in the third Dyansty. Then Merica with the Greater Will, cut the roots of the great spiral crucible tree, stole the roots and grafted them onto the new Erdtree, stole the crucible current power of this world, feeding the Erdtree and gaining ultimate power over the Lands Between, the Scaduetree (aka sprial tree) has been dieing eversince. She also destroyed destined death which was a designed part of the old crucible sprial great tree. In her conquest she vailed the ancient lands now called the shadow lands. True destined death still exists in the Shadow Lands. She established the Third Dyansty. She banished the Knox into the ground similar to the Shadow Lands. Merica's Golden order ruled for a time, until we, the tarnished are called to determine the fourth dynasty. We can also help Miquella start the fourth impact to welcome in his godhood and the dyansty (4th) of compassion. These notes are rough, some things are wrong, but this is the big picture (ancient history) I see.

[@112523]

I always thought the crucible was native to these lands and was manipulated by outside forces

[@bigdumdog]

I belive the crucible is a constant like dna bc even in the lands between aspects of the crucible show up

[@ramz871]

I think the Crucible is not an outer god. It feels like its from the Lands Between. So maybe, it's something like an Inner God, invers of an Outer God. Something native over foreign

[@joesaiditstrue]

Do we really think that Marika singlehandedly killed that many Hornsent to create the Divine Gateway? If i recall, dont most of the corpses lack horns? Even if most of the corpses were Hornsent, How would Marika accomplish this as a Numen without any special powers? Imo the Hornsent created the gateway and Marika likely gained access to it somehow

[@TheRealJohnux]

The Crucible of Life is probably encopmpassing both life and death in it's Spiral. Then marika grew the Erdtree and sucked the life out of it. Literaterally. This topic probably needs more insight, if only whoever placi waits for was around.

[@quentinlelievre276]

If the shadowland is the realm of death, i like to think thats why Marica removed the rune of death from the Elden Ring. Litterally cutting it away from reality.

[@r3gret2079]

Could the spiral nature of the crucible somehow be the reason that the Scadutree is spiraled?

[@Austib_]

The Crucible is just a fantastical take on evolution. Its not an Outer God and doesn’t act like one, its just the product of competition and evolution

[@Mugen-bc9fs]

Similar thing could be said about Scarlet Rot and the Fell God, I think. Or the Twin Bird and the Formless Mother. We see all these through their manifestations within the mortalkind of The Lands Between but never see them incarnated in the way the Fingers exist to interpret The Greater Will 🤔 I think the term Outer God is intentionally misleading. While the Crucible is never referred to as an Outer God I think it's because it's influence was so feared and already beginning to intertwine with the culture of The Golden Order considering Hourah Loux was at least sympathetic to The Crucible 🤔 The way The Crucible is portrayed feels incredibly similar to the Outer Gods outside of it being called an Outer God 🤔 What if the Outer Gods came from The Crucible?

[@arius9748]

I know I'm late... But I've been gathering info from in game and also theorys from others, I... Think ive come up with about of theories and maybe even possible answers to some mysterious things revolving around the universe and existence of everything that is... MAYBE...

[@humblekek-fearingman7238]

I agree with what you said at the very end, the Crucible is not an outer-god, it's just a god. To take from another setting, it's like the world soul of azeroth, primal, primordial and native. Same as death. Both life and death must necessarily be native concepts. I don't think you would even call the crucible a god, tbh, it's more a naturalist religion, I don't believe that it bestows gifts the way the hornsent believe, I think that's a function of the divine dancing beast (elden beast). It's just that they reach closer to natural divinity by emulating it. Spiral incantations work because spirals are the nature of life. Emulating that aspect through your mind (will) and faith (belief) naturally brings out the holy elements of life. It's just in this setting, a spiral tree seems to be the most foundational form and expression of life, thus its manifestation is that of a tree. Death is the exact same, perhaps the twinbird is an extra terrestrial who, like the elden beast, came to parasitize a nascent faith, but undoubtedly, the death practices in the lands between are endemic.

[@TheEveryDayC]

I don't think that the crucible is an outer god, rather, another instance of something similar to the core tenets of the Golden Order: a piece of actual science with a religious connotation. The Law of Regression refers to the second law of thermodynamics, in that any system which has a change in it's energy state will tend toward the energy state of highest entropy, and the Law of Causality refers to the idea of how time flows in a single direction. In the same way, the crucible shows the way that all life has formed through a singular spiral chain of proteins: DNA. I wouldn't say it is an outer god, but I would say that outer gods are aware of the way that life is forming, and are attempting to exert control over the lands between because of their ability to form life, and have something to control, or in the case of the Frenzied Flame, burn it all away and return to the status quo of having a single, uniform, void. I think the connection of having both the worship crucible and golden order inspired by scientific concepts is incredibly interesting, and not only makes for a funky way of turning scientific study into a religion, but also likely solidifies an idea that the golden order and worship of the crucible likely began in tandem with each other, and their divergence and eventual turn away from crucible worship altogether is a huge part of the betrayal of Marika.

[@travman1987]

The crucible was there before the gods existed. The thing before that is probably the great one. Which is probably what the greater will is.

[@samfish2550]

I think the crucible is all the outer gods before they were split with the birth of the grater will and other gods.

[@gladiatordude3723]

I like your videos

[@b00n69]

I like you 👉👈

[@MadLuigi]

I'm glad to hear tht!

[@gladiatordude3723]

@@b00n69aye yooo

[@Zillion-n8m]

1. Crucible --> not really a god per se 2. Outer God of twin birds --> Deathbirds, twinbirds

[@R_o_o_k_i_n_g_t_o_n]

if you ask me, the crucible represents the TRUEST dipiction of chaos and shows that the frenzied flame is nothing more than what happens when one tries to use pure chaos with the crucible is the outer god of ORDERLY CHAOS and on the same side of the coin, the elden beast represents and perhaps is actually the outer god of pure order with the greater will being the god of TRUE order that the elden beast wishes it could be but also despises and wishes to steal the name of being the god of CHAOTIC ORDER. orderly chaos is still pure chaos and could also be represnted via death and the end of all things but also in the truest essensce of chaos is represnted by a perfect spiral which though its shape is chaotic, still follows a total order and though represnted death and an end to all things, it also INFINITELY extends both ways without end while meanwhile chaotic order is life and is itself a chaotic shape that cannot feeasbly ever exist showing its chaotic nature but its shape also is PERFECT being a circle that can do the opposite of the spiral who extends in an unorthodox way and lets all things exist within its infinite self being that i can harbor something inside itself that is holy seperate from everything around it with in fact, the greater will would likely be best demonstrated by multiple intersecting rings showing how everything is granted its own order containing within itself, its own unique existance. i believe these 2 gods perhaps are not enemies but are both friends and are the true GODS and not just outer gods of the world of elden ring with the crucible in its physical form being the primeval current best shown in azurs glintstone sorcery while the greater will is the force that cast the outer gods of all aspects of reality down into the lands between and perhaps destroyed them and seeded their essence out across the lands between to prevent extremes like we see today from forming because while their essence is spread out, all existence can begin and life can arise but as the extremes coalesce, so to does the lilife that exists within become extreme and divide harshly where before there was the possibility for true orders containing all aspects of life rather than just one a thing.

[@R_o_o_k_i_n_g_t_o_n]

perhaps it is only natural that at the end of each cycle of the world itself, the madness and despair as the extremes recoallese that the frenzied flame would EVENTUALLY burn it all away back into the primeval current and perhaps the elden ring was sent by the greater will to hopefully allow us, the tarnished the chance to FINALLY instill an age that prevents the outer gods from coallescing and allows their essence to redisperse across the world of elden ring and allow life to once more be 'blessed with most vivid colloration' or in other words, allow life to no longer be forced to live in extremes of beliefs so immense that life and death for example would be seperated so completely with MAYBE its in fact marikas misuse of the elden ring that would try to seperate life and death or in other words, the greater will and the crucible that robbed the greater will of the ability to prevent the outer gods from reforming and thusly had up until then, stopped the world from falling into the madness of extremisim and so wholly seperate existences from one another that those aspects of reality themselves manifest as actual thinking beings once more with the frenzied flame and the blood flame and even the elden beast.

[@viviv6197]

Elden ring bout to summon necromorphs.

[@dbfzato-1327]

what i wanna know is what kinda scenic route did miquella take round the land of shadow just ripping himself apart lol if all of the land of shadow is the land of the dead where all the bosses we kill damn i wish the dlc had effects on the main game, and the dlc items n stuff where a bit stronger

[@CFX992]

Crucible is not an outer God, it is not even a God in the game, Crucible is the primordial form of the world, the people in Land's between were all created by an entity known as the One Great , and with them Order (Two Fingers), and Chaos (Three fingers) were created as a result.

[@j-plarouche9959]

idk I connect the crucible to the flame of chaos in dark souls. To me the crucible is all that manifest the hornsent's worship of the ''chaos'' of life, the belief that the purest form of life is outburst of natural attribute en ''explosion'' of life Energie

[@Zach-qo1on]

Yeah, Sorry. I don’t think the land of shadows is the spirit realm. For one, the Lands of Shadows was apart of the Lands Between this alone already and this theory fall through and seeing how the spirit realm is before the Erdtree yeah idk. Second the Lampwood has its own grade and culture from the little we’ve gotten. The Scadutree doesn’t have its own grac, The lampwood does. We probably would have seen it or even have it mentioned already.

[@rudydaberry122]

Since Elden ring says the erdtree is the primordial form of the erdtree does that mean the scadutree is as well?

[@normanbates7373]

Why so sure about the theory that Marika comes out of a jar herself? Isn't it that she just watched it happen to her people... Where is the hint, she's just the golden Marmelade that melted successfully? I don't get it

[@JK-ru5vo]

The crucible I feel is like the primeval current not an outer god

[@crew_the3rd]

Conscious beings arising out of natural concepts. Gathering power, throughout the ages, to impose their will on other life. How would beautiful-order behave if it was a being (prideful). How would ugly-disorder behave (disfigured horns). How would studious-magic (intelligence). How would decaying-rot (nasty). How would frenzied-madness (crazy war). Etc. How would these beings then interact with each other. Some could ally with each other. Some combinations would reject each other. Some would go to war against each other. All these beings would eventually have champions to fight for them, create tribes, establish dynasties, expand kingdoms. These concepts exist outside of society, outer deities, they travel the universe, seeking to impose their will on other living beings if their paths cross. Unfinished Elden Ring Notes Deities >>> (with endings) Ugly-disorder, unlucky misfortune, gray, Gothic-death, somber quite, black, Beautiful-order, pride discrimination, gold, [The Greater Will, Golden Order] Decaying-rot, nasty sickness cursed, dull red yellow green, [Scarlet Rot] Frenzied-madness, crazy war, orange red yellow, [Frenzied Flame] Studious-Magic, intelligence wonder obsession, cyan blue, >>> (without endings) Blood-Lust, demonic cult war, red, [Formless Mother] Barbaric-war, conquering power, red Mysterious-wilderness, wildlife nature stars, purple Primordial-dragon, animalistic instinctual blind power, gray Mischievous-serpent, backstabbing dramatic greedy, Beastial-crucible, horns wings tails, brown >>> (I made this one up, good and pure things don't exist in Elden Ring) Cleansing-balm, cleaning water, blue clear transparent, Endings >>> Fractured, Ugly-disorder Duskborn, Gothic-death Order, Beautiful-order, [The Greater Will, Golden Order] Despair, Decaying-rot, [Scarlet Rot] Frenzy, Frenzied-madness, [Frenzied Flame] Star, Studious-Magic

[@kojibubble8215]

The crucible is just an existent force on the "earth" of elden ring that was co opted by inside and outside forces, it's not a god

[@Blerwerler]

Is it ‘Motion’ or ‘Movement’, itself? Either that or it’s the User/Player.

[@lordrobertus]

I think the crucible is less a outer god than a concept or rather a state of the universe.

[@blackironseamus]

Greater Bill and Benjamin Flame

[@thefreshvince879]

there is nothing more i want but elden ring 2 to be a massive game where we get cities, tons of npcs and quests and lots of fun stuff to do blended in the insane world we already have now. i can already imagine it takes place before the land of shadow was seperated and it's just one huge map.

[@Mugen-bc9fs]

That'd be cool. I feel like Elden Ring skewed too close to Dark Souls when the story really would have benefitted from more meat and context. The Lands Between has so much culture and history and it's implied a lot of the people you fight are basically conscious. Do Tarnished just smell funny or something? This inability to interact with the world outside of whacking it with a stick is a huge missed opportunity. I wanna team up with the Redmanes.

[@mostafaahmednasr621]

I wish we can find the twin bird

[@EShiv42]

divine gate looks like a chromosome! if the crucible presents itself as a double helix (dna) then it makes sense that a representation of a superstructure made of dna bound to protein would allow one to ascend

[@Naguzoro1]

Just like merika a nd ranni have a shodow i kind of wonder if the scadutree is a just a shadow

[@Tortuga2223a]

But.... They never said the Crucible is an Outer God though... I feel like that would be at least hinted at somehow. Idk man i appreicate somebody saying other stuff that you feel confident ab, enough to post. No hate at all my man i still watched all the way, keep it up! Idk why people get so pissy, isnt that how we learn with like, everything? Ask questions right? Thanks again.

[@agxryt]

I love it all, except the characterization of the crucible as an outer god. Its not - it is the crucible from which the outer gods create. They're the smiths who cast the world, from the crucible. It's a force, and a set of laws. An ongoing creation and evolution event. The outer gods are the beings which take from the crucible, and forge artworks from it. They're not creator gods - they are meddling gods. This is why signs of the crucible persist despite the dominance of the greater will - the matter which the greater will formed into the golden order - the world as it is today, comes from the crucible. Without the crucible, the outer gods have nothing to cast. The greater will can't excise the aspects of the crucible from the world it created with marika - it can only mold them.

[@jasonleejenkins]

Please tell me what the music is playing behind the intro, please Madluigi I recognize it

[@MadLuigi]

Kings Field IV City Ruins!

[@jasonleejenkins]

@@MadLuigi thank you brother, love your channel by the way, long time viewer 🙏 keep up the great work

[@094176]

I absolutely do think the crucible is a god. But not an outer god. Id say the gods of life and death are endemic to this world, and its rot, the formless mother, frenzy and others that are the outer gods.

[@PoisonJarl71501]

Judging by its incantations, it must have been sent to the shadowlands because it sucks 😅

[@andrewgpisme]

Calling the Crucible a god is like calling the Dao a god.

[@maugwei]

Major Gurren Laggan vibes!

[@MadLuigi]

Believe in me that believes in the Crucible being an outer god

[@todd3143]

isn’t the crucible just… life? mother nature? the world if it’s left as is? real life parallels would be pagan and shamanic rituals that revere nature, the sun, the moon, the seasons, etc. religions with rules thar govern people parallel marika and your ages

[@Moh-problems]

Ohh damn

[@blackeddeath]

wtf even is an outer god

[@FoolOfDust94032]

A god outside of/not native to the lands between, not necessarily cosmic in origin but definitely foreign to the world, thus they need mortals to spread their influence across the lands.

[@cullysloy2705]

I often think there are only 2 outer gods who like to pretend to be the others. A god of Red and a god of Gold. One evil one good. Kinda fits a certain Game of Thrones dialouge from the Red Woman.

[@aaronr1217]

lol crucible is not an outer god

[@VictorIV0310]

Greetings

[@BigNoble-y2y]

Is this part of the lore just a commentary on genetic engineering? 🤔