The 8 Sequence Method Versus Eric Edson’s Story Structure Paradigm - Marty Lang

In this Film Courage video interview, Screenwriter/Director and Assistant Professor of Film and Video at the University of Memphis Marty Lang on the 8 sequence method versus Eric Edson’s Story Structure Paradigm
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[@danbee998]

A sequence is 1/8 of the length of a script. For a 120 min play, it's 15 mins. Sequence 1 (Immediate, beginning with hook), 2 (12.5%, inciting incident), 3 (25%, threshold into act II), 4 (37.5%, pinch point 1), 5 (50%, midpoint/point of no return), 6 (67.5%, pinch point 2), *75%, low point, threshold act III* , 7 (87.5%, climax), and 8 (Resolution). It's the same as Eric's (and everyone else's), just different names.

[@chrisd7733]

Eric Edson says every engaging script has 20 to 23 sequences for a feature film.

[@danbee998]

@@chrisd7733 Yeah, most call Edson's "sequences" plot points. I think he's trying to confuse people to buy his book (so he can explain fully in it) or take his courses. Sequences, for most, are what I defined in my first post. Eric's "sequences" fall along the same 3-Act structure.

[@mikecinema7443]

Dan B. Love your Avatar. I played Gabriel Knight: the Beast Within all the time.

[@Ruylopez778]

@@danbee998 Eric makes his point perfectly clear in this video: kzbin.info/www/bejne/jWfXiXitptCGpMU "I prefer terms that are not abstract, even if a little over the top, like 'stunning surprise', because that should be the impact of that moment that you're creating." Hero goal sequences also ensure the hero is always active. As one goal leads into another it prevents the story from sagging. It's easy to hit all the prescribed moments on the Field Paradigm and still end up with a passive hero and saggy middle, and events that feel mechanical, not organic. Not to mention plot points that aren't engaging enough for the screenplay reader - which would presumably be the motivation behind Eric's book. Yet because it fits perfectly within Field's paradigm, you choose to dismiss it, rather than see it as a tool just as useful as any other. It seems particularly useful for revising an existing screenplay draft, or novice writers who might struggle in the second act, or have a passive main character. I haven't read the book, but does he tell readers to use the phrase 'stunning surprise' in a pitch, instead of 'plot point'?

[@GridironMasters]

@@danbee998 He calls them Hero GOAL sequences. I've heard them as plot points too but it didn't click in my head that these were in fact GOALS and not just things that happen. I thought plot points were just a this happens - this happens - this happens thing but it was not until i heard him say the word GOAL that I understood that the protagonist was being active in the story and the story wasn't just happening because I need to fill out a plot point.

[@perryingram23]

One of the greatest and most profound KZbin videos on the art of writing and film that I have ever seen. Well done guys.

[@sethrakes1991]

Act One-Hero & Ordinary World Sequence 1 1. Opening Image/Hook/Reasons to like Hero/Theme Stated 2. Ordinary World/Foreshadow Main Conflict 3. Call to Adventure/Inciting Incident/Catalyst Sequence 2 4. Refusal of the Call/Reluctance/Negotiation 5. Meeting the Mentor/Establish Stakes-What does the Hero stand to gain or lose? 6. Crossing the Threshold/Stunning Surprise #1/Ask Dramatic Question-Will the Hero STOP the bad guys/WIN the competition/FIND the treasure, etc? Act Two-Exploring the Special World + Fun & Games Sequence 3 7. Tests, Allies & Enemies 8. Hero undergoes training 9. Pinch Point #1/First Battle/Hero shows what he’s capable of Sequence 4 10. Approach to the Inmost Cave/Planning 11. Major Problem Revealed 12. Midpoint/Central Ordeal/Mirror Moment/Hero realizes the truth Act Three-Bad Guys Close In Sequence 5 13. Reward (Seizing the Sword) 14. 15. Pinch Point #2/Second Battle Sequence 6 16. 17. 18. Stunning Surprise #2/Low Point/All Seems Lost/The Road Back Act Four-Resolution Sequence 7 19. Hero considers giving up 20. Pep Talk/Rescue from Within 21. Final Battle/Climax/Resurrection Sequence 8 22. Return with the Elixir 23. New World/New Equilibrium 24. Denouement/Final Image *I left a few parts blank because I typed this out from memory. But what’s important is to notice how each of the 8 sequences ends with its own climax. I hope this helps anyone who reads it.

[@filmcourage]

Thank you so much Seth!

[@sethrakes1991]

@@filmcourage I forgot to mention a couple things about the 4 Acts: the Hero’s primary archetype and his primary emotion. Act One: Orphan/Sad Act Two: Wanderer/Scared Act Three: Warrior/Mad Act Four: Martyr/Glad *Eric Edson says that each scene should alternate between the 4 basic emotions (mad, sad, glad, and scared) but you can also apply them in a general way to an entire act.

[@filmcourage]

What are your writing weaknesses and what do you do to work on them?

[@guywainer4028]

I've been writing properly since 2006 and getting a catalogue of scripts I want to do something with. One of my weaknesses was not writing people of authority very well but I think I've overcome that now. Another problem with my writing was taking too many liberties with the story so with the series of scripts and prose I've really worked on grounding it so much that I think now the strong points to my stories is that they could exist in the real world even if they have supernatural qualities. And that's the other thing, 2006-to say-2009/2011 I realised I was gravitating to a particular kind of story and that was supernatural stories so again I worked hard at forcing myself to tell more organic stories and it really worked because now I can tell fiction that has supernatural magic and those which does not. Now my main problem is just simply the english but that's cosmetic and can be easily fixed with reading and editing. I think now my body of work is shaping up to be something special and hope the world sees that as much as I do. One can only hope.

[@runidjurhuus3937]

I combine Blake Snyder’s beat sheet and ScriptReadersPro book on sequences for my first draft, you should do an interview with those guys, they’re amazing

[@thereccher8746]

All writing is structure. You structure letters to form words, words to form sentences, sentences to form beat, beats to form scenes, scenes to form sequences, which form into acts, which creates story. Your structure will or will not resonate with the person. It will or will not communicate an emotionally compelling story into their minds. That's what writing is.

[@MsChicoro]

The CSUN program seems like it empowers students by teaching them and exposing the students to various options one can use in creating a story within a structure. That structure may be granular and detailed, or a bit more high level as in the 8 Sequence Method. It is always good to have a deep understanding and training in more than one process or way to do something, even when that something is screenwriting. Excellent video!

[@MartyLang]

You're dead on, MsChicoro - CSUN definitely shows students multiple ways to put a story together. Going there was a great decision. Glad you liked the video!

[@leepretorius4869]

I’m curious why Film Courage has not had an interview with the people at Dramatica?

[@HonestArttsEntertain]

Great interview

[@MartyLang]

Glad you got something out of it. :)

[@HonestArttsEntertain]

@@MartyLang thank you

[@djjustice8772]

I remember my little brother dj just us help put.a film.twogether and we thought he was crazy cause a lot of people love the music he mix nown him four music but he beat us with confadence and faith but he chump our face he was managing his friend mr j and they got a oscore at one of the festable but they also got script made it two hollywood and i learn a lot from my little bro y cause his teacher was a actore and indapendent film directore he told people dj just he get this girl on sountrax he got two women on thier pluce he did everybody just about like her singing dj just mix over 25 years and a livin ledgen pro dj humanatarian not just my god brother but hes my favorite dj long live dj just mentore big bro god father teacher salute

[@QualityVideoService]

I use the 8 sequence method along with the 3 structure (acts). Check out The Script Lab: thescriptlab.com/screenwriting/structure/the-sequence/45-the-eight-sequences/

[@djjustice8772]

Him and his movie team one a oscore cause team work got it done dj just us salute

[@ParthibanSattanathan]

Recommend some Movies in Sequence Approach

[@camronchlarson3767]

One of my weaknesses is dialogue. I've been trying to watch movies and read scripts with great dialogue to get a better feel for it. Any suggestions people? Lol

[@guywainer4028]

The trick with dialogue is to understand what your characters want and how they are going to get it. Dialogue is a game, who is going to get what they want first, if at all and playing with who will win in a scene - if at all. There are a couple of tricks I use. One is a dramatic tool and one is an organisational tool and they really work. The dramatic tool I call 'Status or Power Play' - this is something I learned in drama classes and it's basically the game of which character in the rise and tension of the scene is getting what they want. Somebody in the scene is higher up but not necessarily always - you want to play with it and sometimes both might not get what they want. It's called a screenplay or a stage play so you want to play with these things as much as possible. The organisational tool is a lot of fun and when I see it, which I have to say quite rarely but when I do it really does sing and thats what I call 'Power of Three'. Power of Three is a tool which organises the drama and tension in a scene and it doesn't always have to be three. Three is a magic number but it could be five, it could be six etc. Its just a way of organising what happens. The mistake I see, even in films is to jump straight to shouting or action and that I personally find boring. But when it hangs on a series of built in tensions and smaller actions in between the main action and conflict - one should be able to feel it. I hope this helps.

[@redarcs5273]

Watch Tarantinos stuff for good dialogue, he uses it very effectively.

[@guywainer4028]

Redarcs Tarantino definitely utilises Status or Power play and also understands Power of Three. It’s why he’s so good at writing dialogue. It’s all behind his writing.

[@camronchlarson3767]

@@redarcs5273 I'm a huge Tarantino fan specifically for his dialogue :) Every scene in pulp fiction with Jules is golden 😂

[@camronchlarson3767]

@@guywainer4028 thanks for your thorough response! I'll definitely look into those

[@Mr.Monta77]

Back when it was released, I found that ‘Erin Brockovich’ is a very predictable story/movie. It still is in my view.

[@homer_thompson5090]

Either there's one true script writing prophet and a whole bunch of crap, or there's just a whole bunch of crap out there.

[@bizmonkey007]

demondojr Writers are all just trying to understand something that is both clear and mysterious: the craft of writing. Edson's methodology will definitely keep your story moving and the way he breaks drama down into units is helpful, especially for beginners (he was one of my screenwriting teachers at Northridge), but I don't believe it's "the ultimate method."

[@MartyLang]

There's no ultimate method - I think there's something you can take from Edson's method, and from 8 Sequence. But PULP FICTION doesn't follow either of them, and it's a great movie. And there's definitely some crap out there, demondojr, but these two methods can definitely give you stuff to think about if you're a writer. For what it's worth. :)

[@Ruylopez778]

Apply Bruce's wisdom: "Adapt what is useful, reject what is useless, and add what is specifically your own." They are all just tools, but different writers click with different material. Edson's is a pretty simple one to apply to a draft you have to revise, if you feel like something isn't working.