The Absurdity🤦‍♂️ of the Harman Earphone Target (250 samples is not even a trend..)

Harman Target based on 250 people 🤦‍♂️read this..In 2018, more than 1 million headphones were sold per day which translates to almost 13 headphones per second; this is expected to increase by two-fold by 2024. The paradigm shift in consumer preferences for high-quality music is boosting the ASP of headphones. And 250 people you will never meet, know or understand what they listened to guide a hobby. Batshit crazy
Link to Harman Studies
#Harman #Target #Audiophilenonsense
www.juloaudio.s...
🟢 My earphone faves🏆
💎Unique Melody MEST tinyurl.com/y8...
Sony IER Z1R www.amazon.com....
Thie Clairvoyance tinyurl.com/y4...
SHUOER EJ07 tinyurl.com/um...
MANGIRD TEA tinyurl.com/y4...
AAW Canary tinyurl.com/y4...
64 Audio Tia Trio tinyurl.com/yc...
Mangird TEA www.linsoul.co....
AUDEZE iSine i20 tinyurl.com/ya...
🟢Budget
BLON 03 tinyurl.com/yy...
ThieAudio L3 www.linsoul.co....
Tripowin TC-01 tinyurl.com/y9...
BLON 01 tinyurl.com/yc...
CCA CA16 tinyurl.com/yb...
KZ ZAX tinyurl.com/y9...
TFZ LIVE 3 tinyurl.com/y7...
🟢Headphones🎧
Hifiman Arya - tinyurl.com/ya...
Sennheiser jubilee 58x ????????????????????????????
Focal CLEAR
Sony MA900 (Discontinued)
Goldplanar GL2000 www.linsoul.co...
ThieAudio Phantom tinyurl.com/y7...
📻Amp/DAC💽
www.rme-audio....
📱 DAP
Calyx-M store.jaben.co...
iBasso DX160 tinyurl.com/y8...
Cayin N3 PRO tinyurl.com/y2...
🟢Tips I use:
XELASTEC www.amazon.com....
TRIPOWIN tinyurl.com/yc...
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Hart Audio hartaudiocable....
Tripowin tinyurl.com/yb...
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[@Seki..]

So instead of trusting 250 people we should trust just 1? you?

[@S.M.A.Batista]

You are the best! That is why I am a cream team patron. Keep doing your thing bro. 🤘

[@BadGuyGoodAudioReviews]

Thanks bro, it is very much appreciated

[@stevenswall]

I'm not sure 250 people is too many or too little. I think once you start identifying a trend and the change becomes less than 1% of an up-or-down shift each time you add another person, you're probably approaching the point of diminishing returns, and if that happened when they were looking at the data and averaging it for a hundred people, and it didn't change much for 200 people, then I don't think there's much rationale for them continuing further.

[@jasonweaver3629]

You’re a unique person and that luckily for your audience enables you to present your audio reviews in a very unique way, I happen to agree with you in that I also think you are the “best”, most humanly thorough audio reviewer on KZbin, others are good but you’re on another level, so thanks for your work and all the effort involved 🙂

[@BadGuyGoodAudioReviews]

Thanks, I appreciate that!

[@frykauf]

Yeah, the only reason I’m watching less of Bad Guy because he focuses more on IEMs, much less on headphones (heapdhones are my poison). His OCD turneded to 11 is what makes him incredibly valuable to the community. Actual hard work behind reviews.

[@BadGuyGoodAudioReviews]

Thanks,I appreciate that. Will be doing more headphones

[@frykauf]

@@BadGuyGoodAudioReviews Oh, that’s great to hear :)

[@charlottesphie7037]

Headphone what the heck. This is 2021. No need to flex a big headband everywhere. Eeyikeeesss

[@GrimLife]

Videos like this energize me. Makes me want to jump in the audio review game myself.

[@BadGuyGoodAudioReviews]

DO IT! It's not like we got a buncha boundry pushers in it now. They are focused on making money

[@deykno87]

What a vid!! Been watching your stuff a while but this VID RIGHT HERE earned the subscription!!!

[@BadGuyGoodAudioReviews]

Thank you very much!!

[@rahulswami1275]

Here, here. You tell the truth bro and I'm only grateful for all the great IEMs I have through your recommendations. Even though I've spent a bomb, you've definitely saved me another bomb. P.S Many blessings and wish you the best of health. Keep the great content going for all us wannabe audiophiles.

[@BadGuyGoodAudioReviews]

Thanks for the trust. Blessings upon you and all you love in 2021 bro

[@perling9]

On the point.Its all about the music and nothing more👍

[@BadGuyGoodAudioReviews]

Music FTW

[@jackjack3874]

That was a very classy comment you made about the other creators. I appreciated it. I also appreciate your reviews as have more or less the same taste in music and probably benefit from the same audio gear.

[@BadGuyGoodAudioReviews]

Not going to watch folks crap on my peers in the comments. Another channel is becoming infamous as a shithole. Cuz of that. I block em with filters. We all can stay on subject and not shit on Z orme or Josh or anyone else

[@chrisnyc3641]

Great video. I appreciate that you're going deeper than just accepting the conventionally accepted standard and then going to great lengths to explain why. Keep up the good work. 👍

[@BadGuyGoodAudioReviews]

Thanks , I appreciate that

[@dodson28]

I agree that I really respect your reviews man. You're always straight up about why you do or do not rec a specific iem. I've purchased quite a few IEMs based upon your feedback. Some I've liked and others I didn't care for. However, you always give context on "WHY" it is or isn't good and you give a reference for what music made you come to that conclusion. I often test the same music to try and see your viewpoint. Keep it up bro.

[@BadGuyGoodAudioReviews]

Thanks. I appreciate the support and trust

[@BadGuyGoodAudioReviews]

Note the lack of crapping on reviewers directly below here. This channel will NEVER be a hub to shit on folks. There are some very well articulated (essays) below. Enjoy the NOT...shit show

[@8tigerman]

I love this video and the way you think. I never realized how little of a sample size there actually was when developing the Harman curve. Thank you for being an honest reviewer and bringing light to an important topic in audio that has been disregarded by almost all other reviewers. I think something that would be quite helpful to the audio community would be the development of a website that has samples of a bunch of individual instruments, an explanation of how they should sound, and maybe some examples of how certain audio equipment sounds for that instrument. Then you could use that website as a reference when evaluating audio equipment in videos and hopefully more reviewers would begin to appreciate it and move in that direction.

[@BadGuyGoodAudioReviews]

Thanks. If this is all about music and reviewers are here fr that and the customers of that gear then music they listen to should be enough for them to have some balls, and add something to the community

[@GrB-M]

This is a subject that deserves much more attention. The only thing worth bringing up is the Harmon curve isn’t flawed because of the laughably small subject pool, it could have been 100,000 and wouldn’t be any better. The methodology was flawed, which they had to have known when they conducted it. All they had to do was a repeat of the study done to create the Munson-Fletcher curve (what frequencies our ears etc. amplify/decrease and by how much [ancient history insofar as audio sciences are concerned]) but nope. They went with not even proper science (which all but disregarded all applicable sciences that went before it) to come up with a curve for purely commercial purposes. Look into the work done by Floyd Toole (he literally wrote the book on the science of audio reproduction, on our perception of sound etc.), look into the research done to create the Munson-Fletcher curve if you take issue with anything I’ve said or are interested in this subject.

[@evil_twit]

Thing is, only a tiny niche wants "flat" and "neutral". These companies are trying to sell headphones. 98% of buyers like elevated bass and treble. You can scream and kick all you want, but Harman and Bose 2.1 know EXACTLY what most people want. Beats by Dre curve. Nuff said. Flat doesn't sell. If you have a nice fat 80Hz peak, EVERYTHING sounds bass kick like, so that is what companies do. Further: high treble peaks are built in for old people with money. Beyerdynamic is selling A TON of headphones, mostly to older people (T1, t5p). They are successful. Very. ;) All in all, "all" people don't even know what instruments really sound like, and don't really care. As said above, elevated bass and lower mids brings out the "grunge", which triggers emotional reactions in the listener. People love that. Male singers sound fatter, closer - as do electrical guitars and such. Remember, audio reproduction is always a weak approximation of live sound anyhow. In a studio, if you're lucky, you have a good room and a flat response. You know what "everyone" in the world is gonna say? "Sounds fking boring man, flat, lifeless, no bass." Don't get me wrong, you are right about It all. For 2% of listeners. The other consumers what a verification of their purchase. ;) Let me break it down more: every engineer in the world knows cable "sound" is bs. They know production variance is orders of magnitude higher that perceived "burn-in" crap. But respected companies talk about cables and their sound. Do you wonder why? They obviously know better, else they wouldn't use teeny, tiny thin as a hair cables inside the iems, right? People want cables to sound. They want to mod stuff. Change things for "the better". My car drives faster after I wax it. Ya know? If I had no conscience, I'd make millions.

[@JeffJacquesmd]

Morning bruh! This hobby is a bucket of absurdity some times. A few written reviewers mention the music they use, but I find your multi-layered approach the most engaging and informative. Plus, I’ve bought some of what you’ve recommended and then tested the songs and playlists you’ve created to test them. I can reproduce what you’ve heard. Now I check out all your playlists especially when you add tracks. We have a reference point. And I trust you. In some part because we have that joint reference. The freaking music. It’s all about the music Mahalos bruh

[@BadGuyGoodAudioReviews]

Thank you bro, will always try and keep that trust.

[@bigklicker]

Dude! I loooove how you keep it real!! Truly authentic. I just subscribed!

[@prabinpaudel5572]

The thing I hate the most about the audio community is looking down upon people acting like they know what's Good for every single person. Saying things like "that gear is so mediocre you're stupid sheep to like that" Came across a person like that yesterday. 😂

[@BadGuyGoodAudioReviews]

It happens often. Graph is objective measure. ALL else is opinion

[@prabinpaudel5572]

@@BadGuyGoodAudioReviews indeed. And when can we expect utopia review? 😁 And decided on amp for he6?

[@bubukill1]

My only critique against you is that I feel you almost always listen to "old School" music. And despite they being from certain variety of genres like "rock, hip-hop, reggae, some old school pop". You always have given me the feeling that you are covering a limited amount content. Yes, I can absolutely understand it is your library, and that library is what fills you the most and makes you vibe. There is also the undeniable advantage that repeating the same content in your library as measure could serve as for your followers to have a better idea of the differences you've described. However, in my sincere opinion, if you are so on board with what you believe, which is the playback and description of the music as the most important audio measure, you should be covering way more music all around. Especially the inclusion of modem music, from our current era, which I'm certain it covers what most people do listen today in order to measure the quality of playback of their gears. I do believe the level playback and mastering of modern music are quite different compared to the old school type . I do believe there is even wall of difference; neither is better than the other though. It may come down to preferences. They are just approached differently. If I were you I would approach my community and ask for some modern music recommendation. You may be loosing TONS of good shit, especially a lot of music that works brilliantly in order to review the quality of playback of new gears. Add some excellent new school shit, my example: - PJ Harvey - To Bring You My Love. (Edit: Also add that goddamn track "Meet Zeta Monsta") NOTE: I never understood how you have not included this track as reference yet. This track is bonkers for measuring guitar playback quality and low mids+mids+upper mids. It is quite like a another Sweet Leaf but approached differently. No every headphone does It well here though (BLON-03 does it brilliantly) - Joanna Newsom - Cosmia // also check out "Only Skin" NOTE: Her entire album "YS" is a masterpiece for acoustic. It's focus entirely on a Harp playback and some other classical instruments in the background. She also has a pitchy vocal sometimes, especially in the track recommended above. This track is excellent for measuring mids and -upper-mids. The Second track I recommended "Only Skin". Possibly one of my favorites tracks of all time. There are some basso male vocals around the end, quite special to measure low-mids. - Burial - Kindred// also his lastest track "Chemz" NOTE: 10 minutes mark electronic music, but kind of different (actually, Burial is kind of unique, has inspired a whole generation). First track is bonkers for treble, smears, and sub-bass track as well as crescendo vocals. Second track does same job too but focus on micro-details, also faster and with better mastering all around. Edit: pardon, wrote the incorrect artist. Agnes Obel - Broken Sleep NOTE: Just the level of modern mastering, vocals and piano. Angel Olsen - Sister NOTE: Pure beautifully mastered modern rock., going in crescendo.

[@IveJustHadAPiss]

I'm with you. If an IEM fails to convey the depth of emotion and bleakness in Burial's music, it gets sold or chucked.

[@bubukill1]

@@IveJustHadAPiss Actually, I chose these tracks randomly as an example except for PJ Harvey, which I think it should be used as measurement for electric guitar delivery. However now that you mention it, Burial as an example was BRILLIANT. The soundspace, the vinyl crackles, the rainfall, the passages, the voices, all kind of sound effects, the raw height-pitched vocal emotion, the layers within layers, the intense snares, the micro-details in general that every single track of Burial registers convey and give another type of approach at the hour of analizing playback. No every IEM is capable of delivering in all fronts from a Burial track imho. The level of how the details are portrayed varies massively depending on the gear. It is the level of micro-detail that you don't see quite often in a library such as the one from Bad Guy Good Audio Reviews. And don't get me wrong, I listen to his library and I love his library actually.. One example, I was listening to his lastest track, which I just put as an example above, "Chemz". Around the 2:06 minutes mark, there starts a sub-bass passage that many IEMs and headphones I have tried struggle to register; in some IEMs (Blessing 2 as one of the many examples) that sub-bass is inaudable. Another example, around the 7:30 minute mark, when things start to get busy, some IEMs struggle to get the Piano doing the low register while that sub-bass is kicking you in the face.

[@Assimilator702]

You ever hear of Hiromi Trio Project? That’s some reference level recordings. I’ll check out some of your recommendations.

[@BadGuyGoodAudioReviews]

Thanks for taking the time. I will check those out.

[@bubukill1]

@@BadGuyGoodAudioReviews Cool bro, I believe you may enjoy some of those tracks. especially that PJ Harvey guitar! It is like you can feel those notes down your spine; it may sound fucking special with Unique Melody MEST and its bone conductors. Also Angel Olsen rock in crescendo and that lead to the solo is holy moly!!. At last, I've said Joanna Newsom - YS album is masterpiece in acoustic music genre but you may or may not like her high-notes (she could be a good reference in upper-mids vocals though). Music bro, enjoy! Although, almost all the tracks I recommended are a bit long, hahaha.

[@pbpb253]

You are a very interesting character. Really glad I stumbled across your channel a few weeks ago. Looking forward to future videos 👍

[@frankpereyda1106]

Just got done with a session with the dx300. Paired with the mest and my go to lp hot August night, all I can say it's like hearing all of these incredible tunes for the first time again. Thanks so much for the rec , also this is the first dap I've owned where I didn't feel an amp was necessary. Take care

[@BadGuyGoodAudioReviews]

Thanks for the trust

[@NanoDex]

Harman curve is only good for so much. I agree with you. It isn't the standard and shouldn't be. I'm glad you made this, some people are going to see it like shots fired but I see it like you bringing this up right now in 2021 at this exact moment is exactly what should be happening. This is how things evolve, everyone's silently gotten behind the curve (myself included, lazy) without much thought other than "it was a study so it must have validity". You are here to say hey I smell shit, do you smell it? You are right to point out 250 people were in the survey, who are they, what are their preferences, what kind of music, and so on. All of that is important especially when the group is so small! I hope that this video brings more awareness to the hobby and more self awareness to the reviewers in the hobby that we so often use to help us decide which way to spend a large sum of money. There is more trust that goes into an audio reviewer than say a tech reviewer. There are concrete points with computer hardware or a car, these concrete points are either not there or take a lot of smarts and measuring to acquire. Question everything!! Anytime a standard forms, question it!! I agree with the house curve your after, I think its more reasonable than the Harman. The treble roll off is just plain wrong. They were probably listening to some top 40s mastered hot material to think it needs that much off the top. Keep doing what you think is right!! So far you back that up with logic and reason, long as your making sense, I'm on board. You hear far more equipment than I ever will and so I have to trust that expirence, but you also have a respocibility to keep demonstrating why you say your the best! Never say your the best and not be trying to get even higher.

[@BadGuyGoodAudioReviews]

Exactly. Computers have benchmarks as do automobile tests. Audio beyond the freq response is subjective. So be specific, elaborate. Speak to the potential buyer in the language they are trying to hear

[@VulgrDisplay]

I don't know why all reviewers don't take a totally common set that is easily attainable for people such as the BLON 03 and use that as a baseline to provide differences for people to latch onto.

[@thesonnytackettshow7949]

“There are no experts “ !!! I love that bro!!! It’s absolutely correct!!’

[@smkks]

Sample size isn't really the problem here. The courve is not going to change much even if you ask a million people. The problem lies more with how we interpret the results and how we apply them.

[@noself1028]

The Harman target curve may not be preferable in the eyes (ears?) of a lot of people, but it is a known reference point with which most of us are familiar. Even though it isn’t perfectly suited to everyone’s taste (including my own), it is therefore a valuable tool in reviewing audio products. I take issue with it in some of the same ways you do (eg, excessive low bass boost, pinna gain problems) but nevertheless appreciate it as an excellent starting point from which to develop my personal preference curve. So let’s not be too quick to dismiss it or treat it with scorn. I for one am extremely grateful to Harman for the work they did (and continue to do) to help evolve the science in our hobby.

[@HiFiASMR]

Ya I use diffuse field to compare headphone measurements. It's like a blank slate to compare all headphones and iems on.

[@ufukayyldz3338]

Love and trust on you bro you are the best 💎

[@BadGuyGoodAudioReviews]

Thanks very much

[@paulosilva8200]

Yep. I agree with you 100%. So much fuzz about the etymotic xr2 and for me was crap. Bass guitar. Gone. Drums gone. Drum tone too thin.then we have reviewers talking about what they like. Instead of faithfully reproduction. In everything should be how we recorded . I compare my iem with the recording that I did. Simple. If its sounds the same then it's a good iem. If changes everything. Not good

[@zymphad7377]

The graphs are not objective because it depends on what microphone used, placed, or how it was done. It's amazing to see how many graphs there are and appear different for a headphone depending on what website you use. Reality is no one knows how to measure a headphone based on what we actually hear because of the ear shape and canal.

[@jasonfranciosa]

lol, look at how many people bought the Sennheiser 6xx on drop. 121.5k as of writing this.

[@mrbishii]

Well said dude :) The differences/nuances/alternatives made audio gear interesting, sod chasing a default curve... p.s. Bought a set of KBEAR Believe last week, what a great sounding set of headphones...right until the right ear died 2 days later :( gonna get another set though, was listening to albums haven't heard in years, sign of a good set :)

[@mrbishii]

Additional note, got a set of HarmonicDyne Zeus a few weeks ago, no idea why I jumped on the hype of that headphone, sound awful...

[@BadGuyGoodAudioReviews]

@@mrbishii They are a mess. No audio gear with that bass to mid profile...IEM OR Headphone is going to turn out well.

[@xXBLAKGOATXx]

I'm not quite done watching the video but I notice there's contrasting info with yours and dekoni audio's video on the topic, he notes how they were trained and some of the tracks used in the testing perhaps your video goes into more detail on it as we go but I feel like alot of the questions you have might be answered by dekoni audio's video or maybe not just trying to share info and see what your take on it is. I had watched his video before viewing yours, that's the way the KZbin algorithm gods wanted I guess

[@the_trash_mane5875]

Hot take......audio is subjective, so is there really a right or wrong way to have a headphone/earphone to be tuned? Having interesting and unique tunings might make it fun to own a few pairs of headphones/IEMs/earbuds. Maybe wanting something bright sounding one day or something super bassy another day sounds great. If everything is harman or if everything is "neutral" why bother? Just a thought, take it with a grain of salt. Also if you're after some fun music to peak your interest in testing headphones, Big Sur Moon is a track by Buckethead that pans some really fast guitar playing from the left channel to the right, and back into the left about a minute into the track and it sounds pretty crazy

[@bigjay1970]

Well, that's now added to my play list!🤔🤭🤗😉😇

[@the_trash_mane5875]

@@bigjay1970 Buckethead is a pretty fun listening experience, he's got over 400 albums to his name so have a crack at him boss

[@BadGuyGoodAudioReviews]

Just got a song rec...thank you bro

[@the_trash_mane5875]

@@BadGuyGoodAudioReviews no problem boss

[@11clouds]

i always enjoy coming here for some truth, keep speaking your mind man, i felt this was something needed to be said for a while, especially after some of these polarizing headphones as of late.

[@BadGuyGoodAudioReviews]

Sadly it's about egos not gear. People can sense it. The Harman adherance is a joke but just the tip of the iceberg

[@11clouds]

@@BadGuyGoodAudioReviews i see that and i think that's why I gravitate to you and Zeos, it's all music mentioned, something i can reference in real time. Plus the comparisons or the "Id take this over that" really help us with collections who are trying to add unique flavors. The eq thing was always hard for me to understand to the degree it was being taken, if it's not good out of the box i move on. Hit the nail on the head here man..

[@mrfrosty3]

Those darn graphs. I was amazed to learn that people look at graphs someone else made and then make content were they viciously tear apart the product based on the graph. They haven't heard the product and don't have it on the video, its just ridiculing products on the strength of the graph and calling people shills if they say they like it. It also seems that many people think it's ok to mock those who like certain headphones because according to graphs they must be bad.

[@BadGuyGoodAudioReviews]

I have blocked several comments about prominent/known reviewers who do just that and have taken it from a flawed tool to advise to an exacto knife of destruction...of course with few real details. Lazy, lazy , lazy

[@pplebite8844]

It was either DJ Quik or Pete Rock, that said not everyone hears or understands bass in music. And the Harmon graph proves it. A person thats not into music (personally, I'm shocked these people exist), won't notice bass like those that love music.

[@BadGuyGoodAudioReviews]

Some audio reviewers are not into music. You watch andl isten. Not a lot of music being talked about. Hmmm??

[@Streaml1neJMoose]

Good vid. As usual. Couple things: 1. What's the app you showed that did the bandpass playback when you were talking about the shitty over the ears with 1k midbass to mid hump? 2. Are you planning on reviewing more budget (sub-$300) over the ears any time soon? I've bought a few rec'd IEMs all the way back since the DM6, but I'm getting tired of constant fit issues with my (apparently weird) ear canals. I'm thinking it's time to go back to over the ears full time but the bulk of my sets are from the mid-2000's so I'm curious what's new and exciting there. You alluded to graph interpretation being different for over the ears vs IEM so I'm hoping that leads to more reviews of them.

[@frykauf]

Excited for the „part 2“ for headphones.

[@BadGuyGoodAudioReviews]

It is coming. If using 250 strangers "average" is being used in a hobby that sells a million a day worldwide isn't lazy...I dunno what is

[@captainblaze4903]

When people seek absolutes, they generally end up with absolutely less than what they wanted. Consider the Harman curve one of those absolutes. Wake and bake wisdom from yours truly

[@BadGuyGoodAudioReviews]

I agree. If you seek based on average you don't deserve anything special

[@DEALUX]

I agree that the Monarch is weird and sounds hollow in the bass. I've actually discussed a little bit about the target with Sean Olive himself and my disagreements with it but I think the important thing is that a headphone acknowledges the existence of a generic HRTF that follows a smooth rise to 3K. Bass and treble amounts will always be subject to taste. The Harman target(s) don't specify the level above 10K BTW due to measurement rig limitations.

[@BadGuyGoodAudioReviews]

Monarch is an odd bird. Happy folks are pleased but it's...odd (IMO)

[@zaq9339]

Statistically 250 people is actually a pretty significant sample for preference prediction.

[@HobbyTalk]

On my latest video I talked about specific songs because of what you’ve taught me. You are making me a better reviewer every video of yours I watch. Thanks for being a mentor wether you knew it or not.

[@PastorwithoutaPulpit]

Normally I agree with most of what you describe about different pieces of kit but when it comes to the ZEUS I simply can't and that's okay. I actually really like them they're one of the favorite sets I own and to me they're one of the standouts in my collection. Mine are not from early release but from December 2021 so I don't know if something changed or my ears are just that messed up now that I'm older, probably. I have pad swapped them and I didn't do it for sound but for comfort because the pads that are on them are really soft and after a few months my ears were really close to the drivers. So I threw on a set of Brainwaves I think they are XL 110mm felt pads and it's much better and to me it was an overall improvement in sound and comfort. My library is very similar to your own but I'm also older I think at 56, so yes my ears are probably crap now because I never really took care of them growing up in the '80s. I really like the ZEUS for most genre's I listen to and haven't really found anything I don't like them for and I really love them for watching movies. When I say my collection I have 15 or so sets of Headphones ranging from the KPH 30i to modified M1060, HD6XX, OG HE4XX with the 2.5mm and the new Dekoni Hybred pads which are basically the pads on the Sundara's. I say that because I got a set of Sundara and ended up not keeping them because neither my wife nor I could tell a difference between my 4xx and the Sundara except that maybe my OG's had a little more bass and subbass but that could be my imagination they were so close. I don't own anything super expensive though either. Anyway I only bring that all up to hopefully give everyone a better understanding of what I hear. To me the ZEUS very much reminds me of how much I love your Olina. Different sound yes, the ZEUS obviously has more bass but to me they both execute it very well, with authority and slam. I don't have the flowery terms to describe what I hear as well as other audiophiles do but I do know what I like and enjoy. So maybe for those of us who are older and with less than perfect hearing the ZEUS actually sound pretty damned amazing. I'm pretty sure it's okay to disagree once in awhile and it won't bother you. It's like you said everyone's taste is different, listening levels, equipment used, genre's, like you said pretty much everything. I'd be willing to bet however if we ever had a chance to sit and listen to music together or just shoot the shit we'd get along just fine. Thanks for all you do and educating people about this amazing hobby/lifestyle... This comments more than a year past this video so I understand if you don't see it, I just felt like sharing my thoughts with everyone and as usual it's another TLDR post.

[@a-job7276]

From my point of view, a newcomer to "chi-fi", who was looking for something that was decent and inexpensive and that would compete with well-known brands. The truth is that he had the Harman Kardon curve on a pedestal. This video is worth gold. Now I wonder how to find my personal target curve. I wonder how you came to have a graph with your target curve. How?

[@DibIrken]

When I was a kid like 10 years old, not knowing anything about hifi, this is how I would EQ our component except the bass is a little lower. The treble I put a bit higher than the mids. I wish I knew what frequencies I were adjusting.

[@Old_SnakeTwitch]

Harmans a bit extreme, and oratorys target is very neutral and beautiful sounding. But I think both targets are important, I like somewhere in between alot of the time for non critical listening (especially when drinking XD). Especially if your content creating its great to be able to hear how your mix sounds on both since so many people go for that harman curve. Currently i put the harman curve on my closed back set, and a neutral curve for my open back set

[@vladimirreshetnikov4260]

You need to split the headphones list into closed and open. This is the most important factor when looking for a new pair.

[@BadGuyGoodAudioReviews]

True, totally different beasts. I also find large planars to be much different from dynamic driver sets.

[@renzyy6179]

Personally I don't care about the graphs, tech implementation or frequency target.. I just want my gear to sound as natural and lifelike as possible.

[@BadGuyGoodAudioReviews]

I agree with that

[@hildemora]

RT

[@OptLab]

Not sure that's the scientist mindset to go on the moon

[@yatsuman]

That's why we watch your reviews - the one and only source of honest and unbiased information on audio gear.

[@BadGuyGoodAudioReviews]

Thank you bro. Best Mod in the hobby...you

[@ianbeausejour11]

I agree that he is definitely honest, that's for damn sure! I disagree with unbiased though. Every reviewer has bias which is subjective to the person's opinion. The important part is understanding his bias and making sure his opinion based on musical tracks reflects your own if you are going to blindly follow anyone. He is fully transparent about his musical library and doesn't play games using technical jargon. I have been watching him for some time now and have purchased a few IEMs based on his recommendations without hearing them first and I haven't been disappointed yet. That being said, I think that having multiple points of data ensures that you will get a better understanding of the gear in question and know whether it will work for you or not. His opinion is definitely one that I weigh strongly in a purchasing decision but I won't discount other reviewer's work as a cross-reference

[@yatsuman1440]

@@ianbeausejour11 when you've been long enough in this hobby, you'll understand what I meant by biased. Even so, I agree with your opinion

[@ianbeausejour11]

@@yatsuman1440 I think I understand what you mean by biased. I've been in the hobby for about 2 years and granted, it's not that long a time. However, that is long enough to have seen reviewers hype products for commission with affiliate links and recommend products that shouldn't be purchased using hook lines like "Blon Killers" and "new budget king?". I believe that's what you mean by biased right?

[@yatsuman1440]

@@ianbeausejour11 then you must agree with me saying HBB is an honest and unbiased reviewer 😎😎💯

[@Old_SnakeTwitch]

Is there a target made for a movie experience?

[@janowhatever]

AMEN. I find the Paper behind the Harman Target interesting from a simple science standpoint but thats it. I dont get how people are so obsessed with it that they even use stuff like the AutoEq from Git to tune every set to that curve. Ohh and lets not forget that harman is a huge company that is now owned by Samsung. I mean what do you think why they want some curve they can slap on every single device? Maybe because using the same god damn curve for everything is just way cheaper than having every of their brands develop own signature curves over and over.

[@BadGuyGoodAudioReviews]

It's crazy. It's group think. It's not Science. It's a survey done with perhaps Scientifically aproved standards but it's not any form of Science. Do it again, it will not be identical. How many correction (EQ sliders) were used? That is a very important part of why that is shaped like that.

[@zymphad7377]

All the people who praise Harman Target as saying that is the goal for how headphones should sound are utter complete morons. It's called Harman because Sean Olive was hired to boost sales of AKG and JBL when Harman acquired those companies. Which is why JBL and AKG new headphones all sound the same. That's all it is, it's a target sound that most appealing for the widest range of listeners. It's ideal for one thing only, sell more AKG headphones.

[@richardlaub889]

I really like common sense and you have it in abundance. I buy only after hearing from you based on the music choices you choose (Classic Rock and 70's) which jive to the kinds of music I listen to.

[@BadGuyGoodAudioReviews]

Thanks for the trust

[@jamiegustkey2573]

Yes- a pure scientist in all the avenues I concur with- which is why I stick close and trust. 👏🏻

[@BadGuyGoodAudioReviews]

Appreciated

[@jamiegustkey2573]

@@BadGuyGoodAudioReviews - yeah the only true one who based on your analytics and library can say- "Here... These customs over here... You'll want these" and I say yes. And gladly take the steps necessary to acquire. It's happened ✌🏻... ZERO regrets.

[@gdemirjian]

in 6 sigma guality studies we learn that a benchmark can be a good starting reference point. your detail is very good. that, combined with a benchmark can give the viewer a better sense of your subject observations that we can not feel, or experience through the youtube presentation. so, maybe try not to see the harman curve as a mark of excellence, but just a benchmark to use as a sort of 6th sense for how we perceive online content.

[@Flashback_Jack]

I don't care whether it's audio woo, all I know is that my Harman AKG K361 sounds damned good out of the box.

[@ceeluh]

Best video I've seen in a very long time man. I have learned a lot watching your videos and wow... Dude... This video felt good to watch... Right on man

[@BadGuyGoodAudioReviews]

Thanks for watching.

[@emmanuelferguson]

I want audio equipment that either reproduces the music the way it was recorded, or I want something that just makes the music sound good. I don't care how it's done, fuck it I'll take DSP for all it's worth if it gives me the results I'm chasing after, but I I do not want my gear to adhere to some bogus standard.

[@BadGuyGoodAudioReviews]

Amen and agreed.

[@theodorezurla496]

This is so refreshing👍!! Especially after watching "the headphone show" review of the gl2000 (no disrespect) GOOD IS GOOD not what a graph says

[@BadGuyGoodAudioReviews]

He is buddies with one of the creators of the curve. They re-tweet each others stuff. It's a small world and some of it is trying to feed you full of bullshit

[@theodorezurla496]

@@BadGuyGoodAudioReviews that's why I watch you brother 👍i appreciate your realness

[@DEALUX]

The OE target likely involved thousands of subjects in many countries though I agree it won't perfectly match people's tastes.

[@josephjvr6509]

Love the sentiment.... feel people really appreciate the honesty and the passion.... Quick question. Is there any way for you to work some small amount of the same listening and by extension possible recommendations for some music genres slightly outside your wheelhouse. Im thinking particularly of heavier music (heavy metal, djent, progressive metal etc). Really struggle to find good headphone and IEM recs with heavy music in mind - where there has been some actual listening involved. Any thoughts?

[@BadGuyGoodAudioReviews]

Heavy Metal and Prog can be doable. Any specific requests?

[@josephjvr6509]

@@BadGuyGoodAudioReviews Im kindof of trying to picture heavier music where there would be a wide range of decent production across the spectrum to use as a good benchmark for what IEM's or cans would be recommended for music where vocals / guitars might be more high gain and you would want faster crisper bass and kicks. Request (albums) might be anything from 'Crux' by Moontooth, 'First Hand accounts' by Johnny Booth, 'Periphery II' by Periphery and 'I let in in and it took Everything' by Loathe. I think that all of these albums have fairly decent production and are quite different from one another. Obviously there would be a ton of different opinions from your community as to what might constitute good examples of heavy music that would serve as good vehicles for testing - and my choices are probably arbitrary in the grand scheme of things - but the whole topic is pretty interesting as i think heavy metal / prog/djent/ deathcore etc gets neglected a bit in the hi-fi / audiophile realm..(Just my opinion) Might be missing something... any opinions or advice welcome..

[@arrakian]

250 is a small sample number for a city, let alone a planet. I’m surprised Harman admitted it.

[@BadGuyGoodAudioReviews]

More headphones were sold in the first minute of that video than were a part of that sample (13 per second worldwide on avg) = 780. 780 per minute every day 365 and 250 were used? That's a potentialindication of an emerging pattern at most

[@AlexB-dl5ou]

Harman worship is a easy way to find fanboys or people with bias, they will literally tell you a headphone is good or bad based on its conformance to harman. "flat", " neutral", "Harman" have just turned to buzzwords

[@BadGuyGoodAudioReviews]

BINGO. Exactly.I could take a 15 year old kid, explain in an hour what that graph indicates and set him onto the world. He doesn't have to mention music and get trapped...stick to that line jr. Do your video editing and we good. And with some connections ...it would work

[@tonymonyou739]

You are the best audio reviewer that’s why I watch

[@BadGuyGoodAudioReviews]

Thanks. I shoulda left that out but I was hungry

[@jlopez54]

Great pionts. By the way, what do you think of the sony MH-750?

[@BadGuyGoodAudioReviews]

I had mine customized to mmcx removable cable and one day used a splitter and put a sony MH 750 in right ear and an ex800st in other...and switched. Very sad moment as I bought the budget hype ...The MH 750 are not even as good as VE BONUS IE for $19 I learned a lesson.

[@yatsuman]

6:29 the blue line reminds me so much of the UM Mest graph for some reason

[@BadGuyGoodAudioReviews]

Yup. I had no idea what his curve was but it's like mine and is related to MEST.

[@GabenHood]

I genuinely tried a search but couldn't find any info. What is that media player / front end?

[@manuelfigueroa1365]

Thank you great video!!, which headphone would you recommend for Rock music in the 350 to ~500 USD price range? Sundara, DT 1990 Pro, GL 2000 or even stretching more the budget to the Focal Elex?.

[@BadGuyGoodAudioReviews]

For Rock? Goldplanar GL 2000 or Senn Jubilee HD58x on DROP. The Senn is an improved ZEUS with imprfect bass but is musical and does play rock quite well. I would rec GL2000 though

[@yo3429]

The Harman Target Curve is a marketing joke. I still prefer having flat phones and speakers, that's the only way. No pseudo scientific curves.

[@ericgray919]

I have to admit I hate vague terms like "natural", "lifelike", or worse: as the engineer intended it. I wouldn't have a clue, its all academic (except for perhaps to musicians). I have not gone to a live performance for many years. But I digress: I really don't care. If unnatural, not lifelike, and not at all what the engineer intended sounds better to me, I'm all in. I don't care at all about audio "fidelity" or "faithful reproduction". I wouldn't know and it's not remotely a goal. I also don't listen much to anything prior to 2000 even though I'm 65. I heard it already, enough! I want new, new, new. I like stuff made in the studio, I feel its far superior to anything "live". Don't argue with me, its just me. But I still enjoy and am influenced by BGGAR. I bought the UM MEST! I love it (wrong on the Tape Pro though, ugh). BGGAR's enthusiasm is key and I trust him. He provides good info I use to compare with many other reviewers.

[@BadGuyGoodAudioReviews]

Thanks for the trust. Sorry about Tape PRO.

[@Old_SnakeTwitch]

Headphone sales should increase two fold???? That includes earpods im guessing? o.O

[@c4monkey]

I highly disagree with he eq part. 880s, 1990s just to name a couple would not be my go to, but with eq amazing. It's tiny refinements that can't be made simply with material. Anyway they're going to be amped so I'm going to have an eq running at startup. Now for something I'd use on the go, prob not going to eq those

[@BadGuyGoodAudioReviews]

I review gear as it is tuned and delivered not for the potential (EQ). Every set? What is ideal? The Harman For the end user to discover themselves? Sure...that is what people do with things they want to maximize

[@c4monkey]

@@BadGuyGoodAudioReviews understandable. Just think there's a lot of potential to miss out on if you dont try a little tinkering at least. Picked up the HE6se after your video. Currently breaking them in

[@bigjt37]

Harman is an utter joke, a tiny amount of ppl, that renders an incomplete study. I won't slam reviewers, but I'll only say, that the state itself of the hobby with several out there reviewing, is troubling, they are not helping ppl and whether they mean to or not, they at times end up leading them astray. And I do like your point, that they should in some form, put out their preference, that is very key for people to know about their reviewer(s), your absolutely right there, and it needs done. They need to call a spade a spade, state what they like, stand by it, that matters (stop hiding behind things like Harman as a guide, as if that's law or objective), and it always plays a part (subjectivity), and some out there shouldn't deny that. So, I appreciate your points.. JMT Nice vid 🤘🏼

[@BadGuyGoodAudioReviews]

Thanks very much. More folks agree than disagree but lazy hobbiest keep rolling the ball because slow and steady makes the wallet grow

[@cyclonasaurusrex1525]

“This is the planet Earth.” Hilarious.

[@BadGuyGoodAudioReviews]

You, you were surprised right there yeah? What wait?...IT IS THE PLANET EARTH

[@24killsequalMOAB]

Headphones are like cars, everyone has different tastes. Sometimes, you want a car that's super accurate and won't try to kill you in every corner, as in the Porsche 918. Sometimes, you want to satisfy your inner masochist and literally push your senses to the max, like the Mclaren P1.

[@Gelatinmitril]

Sometimes you just want Prius

[@24killsequalMOAB]

@@Gelatinmitril the sony MH755s come to mind

[@jopar3292]

I wsh my parents could understand this - They refuse to buy me headphones ! :D

[@Assimilator702]

@@jopar3292 Do your parents dislike you listening to music?

[@ahmadnaufaldai]

Hi there I agree you gave a very educational and objective view. Keep it up! Btw I have bought Senn 6xx, fostex th900, ath m40x, could I bother you to recommend what is your recommended purchase for me to listen to emo/punk/alt rock?

[@BadGuyGoodAudioReviews]

Focal CLEAR

[@mikediezel0923]

The way you review things is unique

[@BadGuyGoodAudioReviews]

Mental probs.....sometimes work out well

[@metsb]

What would you say is the most "fun" Iem below 200? Something that is extremely non-fatiguing? I have a Hifiman Sundara which is great but its lacking bass and the treble is bright to me. So Im looking for something that is more bassy and low in treble to make it non-fatiguing and more fun if that makes sense. The Blon-03 seems to fit that, maybe the Fiio FH3 or Ikko oh10 but that maybe a bit too v shaped and thus too much treble.

[@BadGuyGoodAudioReviews]

Sony N3A would be 1st set that comes to mind based on your description.

[@MugCofee]

Too much highs is dangerouse 70 desibels is the safe level always. 75 is my db on my iem. some people says to me its not loud or weak sound. but i enjoy that.

[@KarimMoheeb]

I don't listen to the same genres as you but I did find myself lowering the mid treble and raising the late treble in the EQ for my IEMs to sound normal, and the MEST is the only one I listen to without any EQ.. what would make a kick drum, a bass guitar or a cymbal crash sound wrong would also make any other instrument or sound effect sound unnatural.

[@BadGuyGoodAudioReviews]

UM MEST did same for me. I never thought about an EQ

[@vali69]

💎

[@jakeduggan3854]

I thought the Harman Curve was designed for speakers and PA systems. The curve was designed for listening in large groups: theatre's, concerts etc. The idea was to appeal to a vast age group.

[@BadGuyGoodAudioReviews]

It was originaly an exercise related to floor speakers.

[@kkjthouttunkal]

my prefered graph is changing little by little as time passes or when i fixiate listening to a specific artist.maybe its just me but i know 3 years from now i will have a graph in my head that might be totally different from what i like or prefer now, same to my music. the confusion is wether to consider that a good thing.

[@BadGuyGoodAudioReviews]

If you recommend others spend money (Reviewer) that would be fine and informative if it were shared.

[@AllProMast3r]

I would like to make my own target frequency response. How would you suggest I go about it? Is there a video or tutorial you can recommend?

[@CptMark]

"...going for a faithful reproduction..." - there is a target for that. it's called the DF target. And regarding Harman target. it's a try to find an average preference curve, something that nobody before them seriously tried. It can be a solid beginning from where a person can try to find it's personal target curve.

[@BadGuyGoodAudioReviews]

Agreed. That is being used by some as an implied ideal to the point where deviation from it is being used to assign negative subjective thoughts as objective/real/correct...which isnot at all the case. The graph is not an issue as much as how it is being used

[@brianli286]

Harman curve makes me livid because it influence the music industry to follow it but it sounds horrendously bad. We could have gotten so many better iems and headphones if they didn't follow that.

[@turbomustang84]

The reliance on a sound signiture based on a miniscule sampling would make even Sidney Harman chuckle as ridiculous ... And since he was the Harman in " the target curve " that would matter except he actually had nothing to do with it because he was in his 90s and now of course he now has sadly passed away... By the way a brilliant man that I actually knew in the 80s ....

[@BadGuyGoodAudioReviews]

Thanks for putting RESPECT on his name. I think they should have left the name of the study but I'm just a music lover. I envy that you knew a person who delivered the joy on music to so many. May he rest in Peace. Or forever spin his favorite tracks

[@laszlokun5398]

Hey Dude! You don't understand what the Harman curve is at all. We don't listen to this, it only occurs when measuring the headphones, because the measuring device, the artificial ear, produces this. This is the curve of the measured headphones without compensation. Analyzing this curve in terms of sound is pointless.

[@praxis22]

I have never understood Harman, I get that it's safe,but it's also just one thing, if you get a headphone, that perfectly tracks it, why do you need another. All that matters is cost at that point. I had the experience with the Dragonfly Cobalt,where it was just, "no" rolled off bass just sounded terrible to me on my test track. Sent it back the same day.

[@BadGuyGoodAudioReviews]

It's not even safe actually. It is shouty in it's form and lacks extension. A few tweaks would make it safer

[@Sweetaccord]

I never agreed to the Harmon curve. I agree to my curve my ears decide. In other words if you were not one of the 250 people to decided on the Harmon curve, it's a useless curve to follow or have.

[@BadGuyGoodAudioReviews]

It is "Safe" for reviewers and since many hardly listen to music it makes so anyone can do it

[@garychan927]

does your graph solve the problem whereby after certain volume some background cymbals couldn't be heard? For example, Nine Lashes - Break The World, from 1m00s until 1m10s, there is some cymbals playing at the background but it couldn't be heard after a certain volume. this only happens to iem(s) though. happens to headphone too but only when the volume is way too loud to be listened to.

[@BadGuyGoodAudioReviews]

For me yes. a graph of Mangird TEA or AAW Canary reflect what became my ideal in a late treble below mids pretty much but extenting to end of scale as opposed to typical rolloff

[@garychan927]

@@BadGuyGoodAudioReviews thanks. i will buy the tea

[@jasonpash]

Thank you for this. Subscribed. Those matching against the Harman curve, and calling something less than ideal if it doesn't match the curve, are lazy people who think they're scientists. It's like critiquing the Mona Lisa for not matching The Starry Night's color palette and brush strokes.

[@BadGuyGoodAudioReviews]

It can't be used in that way if it is considered the avg. It can be used like that if it is their own ideal/reference. It's lazy. I think that atleast is very obvious.

[@rogermacbain]

I react so thick, I'm phat, and yo Rae came blowin' and blew off your headphones, black Rap from, yo, Cali to Texas Smoother than a Lexus, now's my turn to wreck this Brothers approach and half step But ain't heard half of it yet and I bet you're not a fuckin' vet So, when you see me on the real Formin' like Voltron, remember I got deep like a Navy Seal

[@BadGuyGoodAudioReviews]

I'm like loose rollin, I'm growin until the diesel hit me I'm badder than bruised, and madder havin to choose 'tween happiness and the blues, and who be fillin my shoes when I done had it with crews, ecstatic to see me lose But panic when I be smooth, I'm manic but I'm no fool Y'all rappin I'm talkin cool, and Columbine is not cool In Compton they shoot up schools too, ridin by to see who's who Cock the shotty they cruise through, rock the body blood ooze through Tell his family that dude's blue, no comin back from him scrappin when niggaz was packin and he wasn't packin too So if you feel me you know when they try to kill me they slow I seen from 'round the corner with mirrors and creeped up on 'em

[@laurentcaron6784]

So true. In what world is a sample of 250 relates to the 7.7B people? It barely shows a tendancy. I like your approach to review though, honest as it can be. We don't necessarily agree on all but that's just normal. It's always all about the sound you like that drives you to listen and enjoy your music.

[@BadGuyGoodAudioReviews]

I had no idea until yesterday it was such a small sample that as you point out is really the indication of a tendency at most.

[@queenschism1234]

laziness is not an excuse for anything, especially when dealing with iems that cost almost a car payment or more for some people, a rule of thumb, if the reviewer doesn't talk about music or how the product sounds in the review of iems or headphones then more than likely they are doing an ad for the item instead of a review

[@realx3m]

Bit off topic, but have you heard(or maybe plan to) ISN H40 and whats your oppinion on them? Couldnt find them in your videos.

[@BadGuyGoodAudioReviews]

I had them and were alright. One of my Patreons won them in an event. I have a review vid on another HD . I'll post it soon

[@realx3m]

@@BadGuyGoodAudioReviews Great, will definitely check that video. Heard some comments about them projecting the soundstage bit tall, and getting an impression that music is playing on top of your head. Do you find that statement to be true?

[@hayakawaken9493]

I feel like the Harman(or the harmans) is A target as opposed to THE target, as someone who actively uses EQ, I feel like I'm being more accepting of this Harman trend.

[@BadGuyGoodAudioReviews]

It has become an active study of mass hypnosis, it's bizarre and facinating depending on my mood

[@hayakawaken9493]

@@BadGuyGoodAudioReviews well I guess it's because most people had it really rough in the past. I've purchased all $5 iems in my local grocery store, they're really atrocious, for someone who uses these for years, a Harman target one would be very nice in comparison.

[@algirdongas1]

What's that fancy looking music player program you use?

[@BadGuyGoodAudioReviews]

JRiver