The Abuse of Language in the Trans Movement | Helen Joyce

[@foleyhuck2344]

29:00 An old friend of my girlfriend came out as a trans woman fairly recently. Growing up he was one of the alternative kids - longish hair, band tees, guitar player - and when he came out he wrote a lengthy piece of social media explaining his decision. The main reason, as he explicitly stated, was that he was scared by the expectations which come with being a manly man - something he knew he couldn't live up to. There was no real talk of 'knowing' he was female from an early age or anything like that, he seemed to believe that he had to be a woman because he wasn't a stereotypical man. He was also suffering from anxiety and depression, and was looking forward to the wholesale change as if it would start to put him onto a pathway to happiness. The overwhelming affirmation from all sides undoubtedly help him think he was doing the right thing. It's absolutely possible that he is delighted with his decision and that his transition has been a boon in his life, but it's always stuck with me that the mindset which informed his choice was not only deeply flawed but came up against no dissent, against nobody willing to sit him down and counter some of the obviously destructive, regressive ideas he had around himself and sex roles in general.

[@BrightWulph]

Are you sure you're not talking about my ex-boyfriend? Similar scenario, very naturally effeminate scene kid who's into modelling and playing guitar. Has anxiety, depression and possibly bipolar. Had issues with normal masculinity due to early tragedy in his life, then suddenly one day he announced that he was trans and how "he may not have always known he was a woman, but he was one now. Etc." About two months later, two if his closest friends, a married couple came out as nonbinary. The "husband" said he became nonbinary to support his wife who had "realised" she was nonbinary. 😅

[@beestingza]

It also just goes to show that a significant number of MtF "trans" people are simply using manipulation and deception to gain social capital. Women **do** have advantages in society, no matter how much that goes against the feminist oppression narrative. Men are basically disposable compared to women.

[@Pugh.Pugh.BarneyMcGrew]

@@BrightWulph I still don't see and real difference between conversion therapy to train or shock gay people's brains straight to match their bodies; and trying to surgically alter gay people straight by altering their bodies to match their brains. Neither one seems to be a remotely caring solution, or likely to be very successful. It would seem far more humane, to let them be what they are, a "Non-standard human" and not have any expectations of behavior. They really don't have to be straight or gay or anything. The big problem is that this sex drive that affects us in our teens and 20s does abate, and there are then 30 or 40 years more, where if our life has been entirely built about our sexual identity that no longer is a priority, worse problems will ensue. Males in particular continue to mature at least until 30 and many straight people have taken 30 years to find their place and mature into their body. Maybe we should let them? It is a problem for straight people as well, who get married because recreational sex is so compelling and then the marriage falls apart when that sex no longer is as compelling.

[@Kate-b5j]

100% This is one of the best explanations and breakdowns of what I think is going on with these individuals. Very logical. Thank you. 👊

[@beestingza]

Why weren't you one of those voices of reason?

[@ronderuiter3298]

This trans ideology and the way it made it into our society and even laws truly frightens me. I'm from Canada, and the way the laws are now written it seems that a child could be taken from their parents if the parents won't allow hormone blockers for their child. Also, it is somehow noble for a teacher to 'help' a child transition without letting the parents know. Even George Orwell couldn't imagine something like this happening.

[@JamesMcCown-yf3qf]

As a gay man, I lament that central to the LGBTQ+ agenda is the subjugation of the family to the state. If parents don't make the "correct" decision regading their children's putative "trans choices," the government will do it for them.

[@vaquerosupreme3189]

This is a conversation that needs to be had more often.

[@Terminatortx33]

Its so common sense but you cant get common sense through to the alphabet leftist mafia club. But i think we are slowly winning though.

[@rgghjs9270]

She's full of shit. She knows she's talking shit. It's transGENDER yet she always, always talks about how you can't change sex. Yeah, no one is arguing that. It's called gender dysphoria.

[@truthfortots3288]

The Abuse of Language in the Faker Movement | Helen Joyce

[@clovislyme6195]

I am a man, born in the 1950s in the UK, the eldest of 4 children. The next is 6 years younger than I, the last 11 years younger. I have one sister (10 years younger). All of them were home births. I held them all within an hour of their birth. I helped to look after them, until I went to University - particularly when my Dad was (often), working away. Sometimes I would be one who went with them to doctor or dentist. These things took up my time, but I never minded that - and helped to form my personality. I am an uncompromising supporter of the rights of women and girls, and opponent of gender ideology in all its manifestations - and I don't need to call myself a feminist for all of that - just having a sister, just knowing and loving the other women in my life, is enough. PS Thanks to Helen for "Trans", which I bought on publication.

[@Liv.Clarke]

This comment is so well written - what a lovely anecdote. My dad, brothers, uncles, grandparents always ensured to take care of all the women in our family. I know your sister must be so glad to have you. Wishing you the very best.

[@errin-mp1zy]

Your comment was so like listening to my brother, I am the youngest of 5, he is 11 years older than me and has looked out for me all my life, very similar family life, all home births and learn to look after the baby from day one. I must admit it was a bit of a light bulb moment when Helen explained the learning about children from an early age, although I was the youngest, my older brother was 15 years older than me, so I was looking after his children from an early age. Having come from a large family and marrying into a larger one, I have certainly noticed the difference of first time parents who had siblings and the one's that were an only child. I have often questioned why these teachers are going along with this and kept saying...."they were young once, surely they must remember that they knew nothing".....but maybe I got it wrong, it's not that we knew just by ourselves it was because we learnt it from observing the younger children we had around us, which is why we know. My brother feels like you and I appreciate you like minded men very much.

[@clovislyme6195]

@@Liv.Clarke Thank you so much. She is a grandma now (she had 3 boys and a girl, just like my mum), and her daughter my niece gave birth to a baby girl just before Christmas - my grand niece, a sister to her brother, now nearly 3 years old.

[@clovislyme6195]

@@errin-mp1zy Thank you so much - and it was the same light bulb moment for me. One forgets, or never appreciated, just how much the world has changed. I may have had a few more duties than some boys, a few less than others, but men of my age who grew up as elder children in a family with sisters are, I am sure, instinctively on the side of women and girls. I cannot understand how it could be otherwise.

[@errin-mp1zy]

@@clovislyme6195 Yes, they are instinctively on the side of women and growing up with older brothers, made me appreciate good men, my brothers were/are my hero's and I bet your sisters feel the same.

[@HeyJustMe89]

Yey! A new Helen interview. I love how she brings sonething new everytime she has these conversations ❤

[@harrietcanwell2058]

She really does!

[@vegangoth6761]

So glad someone’s noticed this too lol. I mentioned the same thing on X the other day

[@alexandragrace8164]

So true, well said!

[@Ciara-ASMR]

Jumping on this bandwagon! I actually just wrote this in my own comment, she ALWAYS adds something new. But I will also say that the interviewer was especially good and took the conversation to a few new places, with great sensitivity, giving lots of space for answers and ebb and flow.

[@Techelettt]

This woman is brilliant. She does such a great job of deconstructing all the issues that have been conflated to mean each other, revealing the backwards, upside down, and inside out thinking that is intended to seem a revelation but instead is just a way to obfuscate reality.

[@wolfhugs2221]

She's excellent. So calm and concise.

[@megankwisdom]

Ikr I could listen to Helen all day 🥰

[@bradboetig75]

Both of them

[@rgghjs9270]

But wrong. She always, always talks about 'you can't change sex'. Yes. It's transGENDER. People can present as other genders. She's pure grift.

[@sexhaver420]

I think she's the best I've heard on this topic. It might have been 2019 the last time I heard someone make a cogent point on the "trans" issue that I hadn't heard before. Helen is full of fresh and well-packaged takes.

[@aabracadavra]

Everything that the TQIA+ brigade isn't.

[@endBehavior]

Brilliant interview. I’m a teacher and I fear the cult like tendencies of the education profession are doing more harm than good on this particular topic (among others).

[@acegikm]

I think media keeps pushing TWAW at us because it's so divisive, even with those on the left and with feminists especially. Media really helps to "divide and conquer."

[@jibberism9910]

No need to fear that. You can be assured that it does.

[@sarahsnowe]

What seriously needs to be discussed is The Emperor's New Clothes syndrome, by which skeptics--people who don't believe this nonsense--think that everyone else believes it so they shut up. This is how the trans madness thrives. Also, of course, the brave women (mostly women but a few men) who stick their heads above the parapet are routinely assailed, but we can be encouraged by the victories of Maya Forstater and Jo Phoenix against the contemptible trans-captured organisations that have persecuted them. If you're not in fear of losing your livelihood, speak out about this. If anyone calls you "phobic," point out that the term is classic Orwellian gaslighting (a phobia being at least a minor mental illness). Ask him or her to explain why someone is a "bigot" for insisting that one cannot change sex, and refer that person to no lesser a light than the world's preeminent evolutionary biologist, Richard Dawkins, who will explain that one's biological sex inheres in every cell, running through one's body like the lettering in a stick of rock. You might also ask your interlocutors why trans"women" think that they're women when they haven't grown up as girls and haven't the foggiest idea--and never will have--about menstruation, fears of unwanted pregnancy, actual pregnancy, the routine daily dismissal of female agency, and the fear of male sexualized violence, and why they think that aping the externals of patriarchal stereotyping of women (girly-girl clothes, gobs of toxic goop on the face, high-maintenance hair and nails, high heels, and ridiculous vocal tics and mannerisms) makes them anything other than drag queens.

[@pyhead9916]

Great harm that cannot be undone.

[@karllib]

People's minds are being harvested by an ideology/religion

[@gruunt4064]

Helen Joyce is the busiest (real) woman on KZbin, no matter how many podcasts you watch of her being interviewed you always find out something new

[@tarahughes2806]

I was thinking the same. Always has something new and refreshing to add to the debate. Each interview isn’t a repeat of another. She’s so good.

[@alexandragrace8164]

I see Helen Joyce, I click. Helen is a heroine of our times and has inspired me to be braver in my own profession and personal life. ❤ thank you Sasha for interviewing.

[@treehugger3615]

Right on point. Kids are bad at grasping irony, sarcasm, white lies, doublespeak, euphemisms etc. They will take everything you say by face value. And never flat out lie to a child, they will resent it when they grow up when they realize it was a lie.

[@robertsouth6971]

Perhaps they can understand the concept of rarity. "Most people are male or female in their minds and this matches what they have in their pants. Some people once in a while are different and they have the naughty bits of one sex and the mind of the other sex." Not, "Sex is a choice, what sex would you like to be?"

[@Primalxbeast]

​@robertsouth6971 I've never been comfortable being female, but that doesn't mean that I have a man's mind, I'm just gender nonconforming. Not fitting gender stereotypes doesn't mean that you have the mind of the opposite sex, it just means that people of the same sex vary in their personalities.

[@treehugger3615]

@@Primalxbeast I can believe that. And if it was me, I would keep my body. No need to try to morph into the body of the opposite gender.

[@collyernicholasjohn]

Except for Santa 😂

[@choosecarefully408]

I'm continually amazed at how utterly stupid most people become when asked to explain their stance. _Can_ a child comprehend all the consequences of anything sex or gender related? Can they contemplate consequences? No. _Obviously_ not! To them, changing their gender is like dressing up for Halloween. You don't start forming your Final Decisions On _ANYTHING_ before age seventeen. There are studies done that prove this. Anyone saying anything else has An Agenda. You start shedding certain ideas at 17, start coming out of the teenage rebellious phase, start seriously considering What You Believe about life, religion politics etc. not before age seventeen. Anyone saying a child needs to make a permanent life-altering decision before that is full of it. I also find it a hilarious example of Western European Christian culture that we can't interfere to save children, women etc. from domestic abuse, that we're not allowed to interfere. But this utterly mythical entity called The State can harm them for life with drugs that cause them heart palpitations (so they don't misbehave in class), others that cause lethal blood clots etc. all because you're all complete cowards unable to stand up to authority _figures._

[@justylex]

Helen is so incredibly logical, and everything she says makes complete sense. She is so correct in what she was saying about people today having no exposure to children before they become parents. People in western society are having less children, so less exposure to younger siblings, and nobody allows their children to be left with a tween or teen babysitter anymore. There are so many overprotective parents. I babysat newborn and toddler neighbours at the age of 11. I also coached little ones in figure skating when I was 12/13 yrs old. I also had much younger cousins. My 19 yr old daughter has taken babysitter courses, has her first aid/CPR, a police check done, has worked 2 summers at kids day camp, done school placements in a nursery school, and is an early childhood education student, but our friend/neighbour won’t let her babysit their 2 sons, ages 6 and 9, because she does not trust anybody but her mother or brother to stay with them. And her kids are two of the most anxiety ridden kids I have ever met!

[@TheRisky9]

Agreeing to work in childcare was the single best decision I made in my early 20's. It was age where I didn't have to earn a living wage. It was something that I could do. And I think it helped me not get sucked into all this nonsense. I know children aren't adults who just lack a vocabulary. They're not adults at all. A lot of people are perplexed when they yell across a room why their child doesn't seem to listen to them. Well, it's because the child seriously didn't hear them. They hear you yelling, but they don't compute what you're saying. As frustrating as it is, if you have specific instructions, you do have to walk up to the child, look at them eye to eye, and tell them what to do. When a girl says, "I want to be a boy, " depending on her age, she probably at least knows she's not a boy. She probably knows that boys are different. But she may not know why and how they're different exactly. Only that they're different. So unless you sit and speak with that child, you will not understand what she means.

[@lizzysmith5365]

I’m so glad that you had Helen on! I’m a huge fan of her work, and have been enjoying your podcast for a while. This is an excellent episode!!

[@manusha1349]

Helen Joyce is like that one wise, amazing teacher from middle school who inspires you for the rest of your life ❤

[@robertmontgomery1310]

Mrs Tierney

[@michelledavis2604]

You're indoctrinated.

[@hospitalsgivingpatientsdan8894]

When she stick to trans issues she good but after that she goes off the track

[@kaybailey-jones3740]

My eldest is 11, I was supervising her whilst she was making her lunch, boiling water, she turned to me and said “I’m annoyed at this gender conversation”. I’m GC, I asked if she’d overheard me and she said no. What she was u happy about was the name calling if people didn’t do what they were yelled at to do, that it wasn’t right. It seemed to be that she’d seen people be yelled at for saying there are two sexes. She said, there are, it’s just science and yelling isn’t okay. Nothing to do with me, not that I’ve ever massively spoken to her about my GC stance. It was interesting that she noticed the yelling and bullying.

[@pendafen7405]

Your daughter is switched on, bright and observant. You must be an excellent mother!

[@jiji1946]

what does GC stand for please?

[@abirdkilledmeh]

"Gender Critical"​@@jiji1946

[@honeychurchgipsy6]

@@jiji1946 - I'm thinking it means gender conforming?

[@honeychurchgipsy6]

@@jiji1946 sorry it's gender critical of course - what a twit I am

[@theresas740]

I learned in my nursing practice: dont give people a choice when they dont have one. Example: asking a Pediatric patient "Do you want your shot now?" Of course not! "It's time for your shot. I can give it in your thigh or your butt. Which would you rather?"

[@muiresuilgorm3452]

Also in healthcare: Don't make promises you can't keep.

[@trevorcook3129]

In healthcare we should also use correct language. This includes prefixes. Prefixes have etymology and meaning. Paed means child. Ped means feet. Pedicure, pedestrian. Paediatrics. Just saying this as this was about language distortion. The US is very good at that

[@NoOne-bp2jw]

​@@trevorcook3129The perversion of language is infuriating. It's a brainwashing technique. Assign a new definition and repeat it over and over again, until people believe.

[@joanabug4479]

@@trevorcook3129 The US is actually consistent when it comes to paed and POD (podiatrist). At least they're taking them both from greek and not mixing in latin ... :|

[@09cutie0pie]

Why not the shoulder?

[@Miamaiya]

Wonderful interview. Helen Joyce is a breath of fresh air!

[@swooningtree]

"Transwomen are women" as a statement of faith or declaration of intent makes SO much sense and I've never been able to put it so succinctly. Thank you, Helen

[@janetscrivener7915]

It's magical thinking, it's really playing 'pretend.'

[@swooningtree]

@@janetscrivener7915 I'm starting to think of it more that way - like a symptom of mass generational arrested development. Like a child insisting "I AM a princess" in the face of mounting evidence to the contrary 😬

[@jibberism9910]

I dunno, it tastes distinctly political to me and I can't shake that feeling.

[@swooningtree]

@@jibberism9910 Hmmm. There’s definitely political DNA in there but I think most of the foot soldiers of the movement interact with the ideology more like a religion, if that makes sense?

[@GodfreyOsward]

Trans gender is new form of genocide in history. Children like prison can not consent or enter contract.

[@Cotictimmy]

Quality discussion. Good to know there are still sane, thoughtful people around. It’s astonishing when you think about the insanity of the meltdown over J.K. Rowling.

[@thomasprogli3372]

I really like that Helen is willing to talk to anybody who want to have a serious discussion. I wish Sasha a lot of success and keep up the search for a true perception of reality.

[@greenaum]

The "Examination Of Gender" thing around 25 minutes in, where the kid is supposed to obsess about their gender, and it's analogy to Catholics examining their conscience in a ritualistic way... It reminds me of something Scientologists do, and cults in general. It's about breaking down the ego, to the point of annihilating it sometimes (and kids and teenagers don't have strong ego defences!). Obsessing about your failures, your faults, why you're such a shit person who falls short of the glory of whoever. It creates a person desperate and empty and desperately in need of instruction, of someone to fill in the answers to these unanswerable, and pointless, questions. At that point your cult leader will pour the Kool-Aid back into you. The whole gender nonsense thing is bizarre because it seems to be the first example of a self-sustaining cult with no leadership, nobody running the whole scam and giving orders. Maybe that's where social media comes in, small groups of people with the right sort of personality will pop up ad-hoc to fill the role of supplying inspiration and "scripture". It's very odd but "cult" is a valid name for it, it's an accurate description in so many ways, the more you find out about cults and the more you find out about this gender nonsense. Most people aren't attracted to cults, they prey on a certain sort of individual who's perhaps a bit of a lost sheep. The victims make the cult as much as any "mastermind". It's very damaging. In 50 years time scientists will have a hell of a time figuring out how it all happened! Oh god there's so much I could write already!

[@yvonnelas2969]

In Australia you can go back and change the birth certificate. It seems to me that a legal document has no meaning.

[@terraflow__bryanburdo4547]

Australia is a lost cause 😢

[@sjxt1556]

That’s interesting. Do they do like with a name change in NZ, you get then new name on the certificate but it says “name at birth” after it?

[@Rakso5809]

I truly believe one of the main problems is that the trans community teaches such strict gender roles and unnecessary gendered things that don't need to be gendered. You brought the example of a boy wanting to be a mommy, I'd ask him: What do you mean by that? I highly doubt he really has a concept of pregnancy, or he desires to give birth except in very extreme cases. My bet is, he wants the mommy role, that is currently stereotyped on women as caregivers. Having a child, caring for the child, raising it and so on. Be the nurturing parent. And then I'd tell him, you can't be a mommy because you're a boy, but a daddy can take that same role too. A daddy can raise his children, can be caring and can be what your mommy has done for you. After the child is born, except for breastfeeding, there's nothing in the role of a mother a father couldn't fulfill. You don't have to be like your father, you can be like your mother, stay with your kids, care for them, if you want to. And that's so often true. A boy can't be a girl, and that's okay because there's rarely anything a girl can do that a boy couldn't do. And you don't have to become a girl to fulfill that role you're hoping for. And that's what I resent most about the current, ridiculous discussion. They enforce the hard and unforgiving stereotypes I myself tried to escape as a girl. Those necessary limitations that we really don't need. You can be whatever you want, doesn't mean that you have to change or ignore your biology. It means you don't have to adhere to dress codes or gender stereotypes. You can be a beauty queen even as a man because that's just a role. It's a construct. Sex isn't, that's biology. You can compete with women in a beauty contest because you can change your appearance, but it is unfair to force yourself into woman's sports because those were created because women are physically unable to compete in men's sports. They were created to elevate an inequality, and taking over this is extremely inappropriate. There are sports, where it doesn't matter. Like equestrian sports or competitive dancing. But those already don't have women's sport categories, even because they have never been necessary, and men and women have always competed against each other.

[@fibanocci314]

I disagree, to an extent. Obviously a lot of things are merely roles, but those roles exist for a reason which mainly comes down to biological differences in the sexes. Even down to the ability to multitask and a difference in peripheral vision, there is a difference between a mommy and a daddy in terms of actual function. A little boy can grow up to be a loving and nurturing daddy, but to say he can be exactly the same as a mommy apart from birth and breastfeeding is not accurate.

[@DonnaBrooks]

I would LOVE to see Helen debate Judith Butler! I've recently seen a vid in my feed of an interview with Butler talking about "Anti-Trans Ideology," which is laughable because WE aren't the ones trying to gaslight people into believing a dogma that can't be proven (which is what a CULT does)! In fact, we have so many incredibly intelligent people presenting sound evidence (not theories) & critically examining this issue that all Judith & her host have it to take our language about "gender identity ideology" or "trans ideology" that we use to separate the activists from actual trans people who don't endorse their cult mantras, "Transwomen are women," "Trans rights are human rights," etc. WE don't demand that everyone march in lockstep with us, NO MATTER HOW INSANE OR DESTRUCTIVE OR VIOLENT our movement becomes, or be cancelled for the merest hint of independent thinking, called a bigot, a transphobe, and even a racist (!), & be lied about, attacked, and/or punished the way JK Rowling, Kathleen Stock, & others have been. THOSE are the marks of a cult. The whole insistence on, "no debate", was THEIR mantra, not ours! So they framed the Butler video as, "We don't have an ideology; YOU DO!" It's so childish. Butler, et al., your movement's actions over the last several years have shown that you are an ideological cult with no basis in reality or rational argument who relies on intimidation, gaslighting, & punishment of heretics to keep people under your control! Helen Joyce would absolutely demolish Judith Butler in a debate!! Where's IQ2 or the Oxford Union?!

[@danieltalbot8070]

Nice to see all that sanity shining out of these splendid women!

[@jessicao9090]

I've listened to dozen of interviews with HJ but she always has new insights... she's just fantastic!

[@rgghjs9270]

She's also full of shit. If you'd like some insights into the biology of sex and gender then Micah Valentine has good content

[@RB-jl2qb]

Gender ideology “Hermetically sealed nonsense”. Helen always comes up with fantastic statements about this neo religion.

[@aabracadavra]

She's brilliant.

[@earlducaine1085]

This is one of the reasons I love Joyce, she's witty, precise and profound. Gender ideology IS hermetical (as in hermetically sealed from reason) because it is a hermeneutical, a theory of interpreting sex, carefully crafted in academia (in the tradition of critical theory)to be irrefutable and unfalsifiable. Most critical theory stays in academia, obscure and without real-world import. When when it escapes, it can cause all manner of mischief because its purpose is to first and foremost subvert reason and scientifically based objective reality. It's modern day sophism and pop culture and mass media is extremely susceptible to this sort of manipulation.

[@Joseibruc]

Multiple genders existed in the original scrolls and Jewish Bibles so it is an old school ideology. How is it a new ideology?

[@terraflow__bryanburdo4547]

​@@JoseibrucYou are right...two IS "multiple" 😊

[@vickicaravella4665]

​@@Joseibruc Believe me, the ancient Hebrews knew who was a woman and who was a man. Gender non conforming folk have always existed and disorders of sexual development. But! never before could a woman or man claim to be the opposite sex/gender as a truth claim and expect to be treated as such.

[@Ciara-ASMR]

Helen Joyce is just always bringing something new to the table, but in regards to the actual interview, the pace, the questions, this was one of the most thoughtful and well-done interviews. I loved the mention of the Strike novels also, on that lighter note, as I'm such a huge fan of that series!

[@irisElee]

Helen Joyce is one of the two most beautiful, intelligent, witty, funny, and altogether lovely women in the United Kingdom. The other one is Kellie-Jay Keen. ❤

[@SuperKripke]

How do you know they are women?

[@azimuth5620]

@@SuperKripkethe same way we know a man is a man. Humans have evolved, like any other mammal, with a remarkably accurate ability to tell the difference between the two sexes. Sure, people can glance at a person and assume the wrong sex but that’s not very common or problematic as it normally just takes a second glance if you’re unsure.

[@SuperKripke]

@@azimuth5620 Our eyes alone are the judge of who a man and woman is? Does this mean women who look like men can't enter the woman's bathroom? Many conservatives believe that Michelle Obama is a man. Are they mistaken or intentionally misleading us?

[@bertieboo]

They are two favourite women to listen to aswell, both say the same in different ways which help to reach more women xxxx

[@bertieboo]

I agree, im the youngest of six, ive been part of my nephew and nieces lives since i was 10. It brings so much balance to children, this understanding of being a girl, really permeates from the ground up. My dad had two allotments and we had chickens, we all got involved helping dad from sitting in a pram watching, to collecting eggs and eating chickens we cuddled and took care of. I have a huge immediate family, hoodles of great nephews and nieces and not one member of my family would ever consider a boy could be a girl or go along with a lie. Its a education issue and people not being grounded in being taught what is right and what is wrong.

[@MiniT-x8q]

29:26 There was a comment on another video where someone commented that we want to stop boys having long hair. And another comment from a trans boy who said that she was told by someone that short hair made her look like a boy, so it was very affirming. Who is telling these children this regressive nonsense? Have we gone back to the 1950's?

[@jayWalk8]

Crazy isn't it? My niece has short curly hair - a beautiful pixie face BUT because she's not into pink & loves sports there are some kids at her school that tell her she is a boy! She just is her own person & a strong character - thankfully her Mum & her Dad & myself all working class & grew up in the 70/80's so not been taken in by the nonsense!

[@davidloughlin2238]

I am a 64 year old Irish man and I cannot believe this crazy trans thing and the nonsense that it is creating. Massive respect for Helen, she is so clear in her thinking and excellent at dismantling the arguments of the trans lobby. Hugely proud that she is Irish too of course😊

[@katherineroddy9190]

It's crazier than most people understand. I try to explain it. Most people think the trans movement simply supports the human rights of trans people. When I explain that lesbians are criticized for not wanting to sleep with trans women (men) they're called bigots and transphobes.

[@rubykittyruby]

Helen Joyce is always such a great interviewee. Sasha, I thought your point on kids demanding puberty blockers as a way of clinging on to childhood was really interesting. Not heard that way of looking at the situation before.

[@honeychurchgipsy6]

@valeriet457 - when I went through puberty I felt shame (my breasts began to grow whilst in primary school) and utter despair (how could I cope with a period every month?). If someone had told me there was a pill I could take to stop the changes I would have begged my mum for it.

[@pjglory3348]

Helen speaks so clearly and bluntly! No fudging around.

[@alan2a1l]

Helen Joyce is right coming at this from [implicit] philosophy: i.e. Metaphysics is what is, Epistemology is how do we know? How to evaluate truth or falsity. These are the foundations of any philosophy, the foundations of knowledge upon which science, which is objective analysis of the universe, depends. The denial of the objective nature of sexuality is a denial of Metaphysics & Epistemology. To understand what is, one must have a method of apprehending reality, our sensory input. That requires both. You observe what is, you identify it non-contradictorily (I am a human, a male/female, I am tall/short, etc.). The "how do you know" is to acknowledge your senses as valid by definition. Some contest this and point to optical illusions, but they DO tell the truth, you just need to know more to understand how your assumptions about what you're seeing can be affected by other factors. Etc. A rational philosophy requires an Epistemology based on a Primacy of Existence. The purveyors of gender fluidity, in the physical sense, have an Epistemology based on Wishful Thinking, a Primacy of Consciousness, as A. Rand called it. They believe that Reality will conform to their desires. A terrible idea, a recipe for disappointment. They don't base their approach to understanding of the world on the nature of Existence, but on their wants, hopes, dreams. Since they can't defend their beliefs by pointing to the things of the world and concepts derived from Existence, they respond to questioning with defensiveness, hostility, anger. It's a kind of philosophical degeneracy.

[@281992pdr]

Helen: "It is profoundly solipsistic ..." Fantastic, I have been saying that for some time. Thank you. And "... hermetically sealed nonsense" is a great description of the trans world ideology.

[@abcdeshole]

Thank you for coming on Sasha’s channel, Helen! Two of my favourite terves!

[@rosablume4346]

Oooo, is that the official plural, like leaf, leaves ( not native speaker, but quoting Mr Menno: happy to terf together…)

[@marieparker3822]

​@@rosablume4346i say 'terven', but I'm not dogmatic about this.

[@4651adri]

​@@rosablume4346 it should be terfs but hey, it's not written in stone 😂👍🏻

[@honeychurchgipsy6]

@@marieparker3822 - I like that - like a coven - haha!! I hate the term terf - it is so wrong because it implies that anyone who questions is excluding or denying the existence of trans people which we are not. However, perhaps just as gay men have reclaimed the word queer we should wear our terf badges with pride!!!

[@GreenWhitePurple]

I really like Sasha’s interviewing style. She seems to be genuinely listening and making it a conversation, not just going to her next question on the list. Good points made by both women.

[@tomgreene1843]

Quite a few senior Irish politicians cannot say what a woman is ....oh the land of Joyce Yeats Heaney O'Casey and Burke ...what an articulate crew are our politicians !!

[@salobrena6442]

What we can do to help the adolescents and adults that think changing sex is possible, is to show them pics of what "normal" genitalia look like and what it will look like after gender affirming surgery. The detransitioning community could really help with this. These poor people are being mutilated beyond belief. Seeing is believing. Those in this field don't seem to want THAT information out there.. they are the new Dr Mengela's of the world.

[@cenzo362]

The detransistioners & transsexuals can help. I am TS (45) & have spoken to 2 confused teen girls, at the behest of their mother's. I told them everything ik medical wise & my own experiences. Both of them became allies instead. Sadly one mother wanted her child to transistion & we aren't friends any longer. Btw very few ftm get "bottom surgery".

[@salobrena6442]

@@cenzo362 What kind of parent would insist.. madness.. good for you though for being honest with the girls.. Protecting children is first and foremost.. thank you

[@cenzo362]

@@salobrena6442 my pleasure. It's way too heavy of a decision, even for some adults. I'm hoping her mom will snap out of it. The parents need therapy as well in my opinion.

[@salobrena6442]

@@cenzo362 I completely agree.. the whole situation is very sad.. These children are struck down before they even get started.. so upsetting.

[@jnkelley42]

I'm detransitioning. My doctors abandoned me, my "welcoming" church kicked me out, and the list goes on. Therapists are afraid to see me because it is considered "conversion" therapy. No one is going to listen to me or likely any of us.

[@lkae4]

Some don't talk about chromosomes. Some say biologically predispositioned to form a womb. It's about function, purpose, meaning. I like that.

[@vicklen51]

What a thoughtful conversation. My children were always around younger children and were taught to look out for them wherever we were. I remember reminding my son to let the little ones have their turn and to assist them if they needed it. He was very angry at two much older boys pushing the little ones out of the way and running over them-I was angry because the parents were there and didn’t give any guidance to those older boys.

[@lesleymoven4776]

What a fantastic conversation …Helen Joyce is so easy to understand, I could listen to her everyday… Thanks Sasha for making this an excellent exchange 💐🌹👏🌟

[@salome9742]

I see a new Helen Joyce interview, I click the video. Love this woman.

[@lynnebarnes3840]

From a family of six an aunt at 8, astounding that you can be a parent without knowing a damn thing about children. Its our unnatural way of living, we are a tribal species.

[@rosablume4346]

The times we live in… Hubby came into the room, asked: are they gender critical? How would you know? Cause they look average and do not have any metal in their face… Great conversation, loved Helens insight, especially regarding how to deal with kids, how to involve them but still give guard rails. Yea, if you ask a toddler if you may change the nappies, that looks like a great set up for complications to me. When I ask my kids to help me I let them choose one of the two or three chores, but it is at least one…

[@slacktoryrecords4193]

How did this not come up in my daily “Helen Joyce” searches on here?! The KZbin search function is not great. Glad to have discovered it, can’t wait to watch.

[@miroirs-jumeaux]

the other bit of subjunctive still common in English is the verb "to be" in a conditional clause: "I *was* in Portugal…" (indicative) "if i *were* in Portugal…" (subjunctive)

[@nostromo737]

Starmer needs to talk to this sensible measured lady of outstanding integrity. Should he move into No 10 the mental health of our children depends on him getting sane advice and not from Stonewall and Mermaid zealots.

[@GordieGii]

It's really simple for me: I don't use gender pronouns. I only use sex pronouns.

[@dawnemile7499]

Are parents that ignorant that they can't figure out that kids weren't killing themselves because they couldn't transition when they were growing up so why are they going to do so now?

[@Beserious795]

I think that when a parent is threatened with the idea that suicide is a greater possibility if their child not be affirmed, they of course be affected by the potential. Have you ever been told your kid had a high potential for suicide? I have. It’s not something I would wish on anyone. It’s actually something I will never get out of my head. A lot of this is the doing of activism and WPATHs effect on the entire medical profession. But it takes an oblivious parent a hell of a long time to figure it all out. ETA: to answer your question more directly, I don’t think parents are “ignorant,” I think they are afraid.

[@9395gb]

​@@Beserious795But kids used to do this stuff back in the day as well. Threaten to unalive themselves or harm themselves if they didn't get their way. Most parents ignored it and understood it was a manipulation tactic. It's just a tantrum and expression of anger. It's not that serious. Those kids never unalived themselves and they grew out of that phase and using manipulation tactics when adults put their foot down. Modern parents are not setting boundaries, not saying no to these kids, and not giving their kids any resiliency or coping skills. They are giving into these kids. These kids, though, are in for a rude awakening when they become adults and no one gives into their tantrums and it costs them their jobs, relationships and friends or they get sued or put in prison for threatening everyone.

[@fibanocci314]

I do wonder if it's the same logic as younger children threatening to hold their breath until they die.

[@ShazWag]

I agree with Helen Joyce, and I'm happy to be a boomer and to have grown up when I did - when things were simpler and anything like this would have been seen as highly disturbing if not insane. People would have laughed at such suggestions.

[@53kenner]

Abusing language has been going on a long time. I remember back in the 70s when they referred to 'Saturday Night Special' handguns, which were supposed to be cheap and highly concealable firearms that they wanted to ban for public safety. Some of these were in .22 caliber, some had 6 inch barrels, many were anything but cheap -- the term hid the truth. Then there was body armor piercing 'cop-killer' ammo that they wanted to ban to protect police -- but it was only sold to police departments. 'Assault weapons' were defined by things like pistol grips, bayonet lugs and flash suppressors. No one has been killed by flash suppression or pistol grips and drive-by bayonetting has yet to become an issue. But, someone decided that these features were also on military weapons and thus had to be banned -- so they stuck the term 'assault rifle' onto firearms that were not in any way an assault weapon based on definitions used by the military. Anyhow, this is just firearms. The language is continually being twisted by people with political motives with the theory that they can get their way by subverting the very language to get an emotional response that they can't get applying reason and logic.

[@dreamsandshadows582]

She is brilliant.

[@marieparker3822]

When British sailors were trying to sail around the World, after a time they tended to contract scurvy, a very unpleasant disease from which many of them died. Some brilliant physician/scientist postulated that a lack of citrus fruit and vegetables contributed to the contracting of this disease. So the Royal Navy stocked up on such fruits on its ships before they sailed out. Unfortunately, before the days of refrigeration, the fruits and vegetables went rotten by the Bay of Biscay, and had to be thrown overboard. Mr Rose made a fortune concentrating and bottling lime juice and selling it to the British Royal Navy. Sailors no longer contracted scurvy, and were called 'limeys' by Americans and others, and still no-one had heard the word 'vitamin', far less anything of Vitamin C, let alone its molecular structure or action in the human body. But having lime juice was a godsend to these sailors.

[@jayWalk8]

Sometimes it's necessary to be cruel to be kind in the long run... Helen tells us the truth & let's hope that we can wake up in time from the unfolding nightmare that has been created .

[@LadyLisaify]

Helen is so good! Her thought process is very clear, she just cuts through all the noise! I really admire her and thank goodness she’s fighting for women’s and children’s safety.

[@Susan.D]

As always, much needed and accurate assessment of our changing standards.

[@karinburt8168]

When growing up I noticed that there were small groups of kids that always had one that was a bit girly or a girl who's a bit boyish. Nowadays groups gather where they must all be the exact same type. Based on this the ideology can thrive in certain groups. I was always an outsider because I moved schools a lot. It taught me independant thought and I had a very strong mother figure.

[@carlosdanger7499]

Language is meant to communicate. When they use language it’s meant to confuse. When speaking about the trans policy with administrators at my kids school they get very uncomfortable when you use direct language with clear meanings. You can see the flight/fight panic in their eyes even though you’re speaking calmly and respectfully because you asked a direct question. It terrifies them

[@stvbrsn]

There are ways to communicate other than language. It has been hypothesized that the reason why we created language in the first place is to be able to obfuscate and lie. Ironically.

[@DonnaBrooks]

31:52 "So speaking of people who say things that make no sense...." 😆 Sasha's never made me laugh before, and her droll delivery of that line cracked me up! 😆 THANK YOU for bringing some humor in this terribly depressing time.

[@SashaWhiteInterviews]

Glad I could make you laugh 😄

[@janbarstow]

She makes PERFECT sense.

[@metashadow3924]

Love the video, thanks for making it. Helen Joyce is amazing!

[@NicoleAshton1986]

Great interview! I find the manipulation of language by gender ideologues appalling and have written some articles on Quora about it. This sort of thing goes on there all the time. I remember one particular individual who argued, in reference to Lia Thomas, that transwomen who remained fully intact males should be in changing rooms with women and girls and that Lia is 'just a girl undressing next to another girl'. Sickening. This wasn't even a transwomen coming out with this by the way, it was a man. There are many, many men who don't identify as transgender on Quora attacking women for asserting our boundaries. The mantra 'trans women are women' is a manipulation. Even sticking the space in transwomen is because it implies that trans is an adjective to describe the noun that is women. 'Cisgender' is a manipulation as well as it implies there are two subsets of women under a greater idea of what a woman. But women are not a subset of women. If they want to be transwomen, they should define themselves as exactly that and not claim to be anything more. A male claiming to specifically be a transwomen rather than literally a woman is much more definable and surely easier for others to accept. Their biggest problem is they (or the activists at least and I know they don't speak for all trans people) have quite severely overstepped. What's scary though is how much success they are having with those in authority. Did you know that in the UK the Equality Act actually states that gender reassignment discrimination is given on a basis of only proposing to transition? The same legislation that covers single-sex services (which includes bathrooms, changing rooms etc) and it reads like a man, any man, can declare that he intends to transition and then claim discrimination if he's not let into the women's changing room.

[@musicfuhrer]

I just went on Amazon and ordered Helen's book.

[@justanumber9053]

Please stop calling us cis women. It’s just woman or women. No other identifier or prefix required. Woman already has a definition.

[@noranneduffy]

Using their language spells.!

[@cenzo362]

I am TS & can tell you the TG ppl use it so they don't have to use trans for themselves.

[@jujubesification]

What's wrong with it? How does it hurt?

[@cenzo362]

@@jujubesification There's no need for it, therefore it's ridiculous to use. Kind of like if someone refers to a carrot, no one asks if it's orange. There are dif more rare purple ones so then one would say do you want a purple carrot. I'm a TS man (the purple carrot for instance) I have the prefix since I'm not a male. Making up this language harms TS who actually have GD & rectify it w hormones. It gives the wrong impression compared to AGP & SELF ID. Honestly it sucks.

[@jujubesification]

@cenzo362 it's not the people inventing language to meet their needs that are hurting you. It's the people who reject the gender spectrum. You're literally falling in the trap: look what you made them do to me.

[@louisaellingham602]

I also find her thinking to be so considered and beautifully intuitive. Helen is over 20 years younger than I am, but she is one of the clearest thinkers in our culture!

[@katherineroddy9190]

My niece lost her hair when she was three because she got alopecia. She said recently that, because she lost her hair, she thought she might be a boy. It was very upsetting to her, because she was a girl who loved dresses. But she never told anyone. We didn't know. Not until she was 30

[@drengskap]

'Children are immensely concrete thinkers.' Exactly right. People need to go and brush up on Piaget's stages of development if they don't understand this.

[@EG-ld8ot]

Helen, I so love listening to you ❤❤❤❤First time on your channel Sasha, made sure to subscribe! 😊😊😊

[@debbielondon1809]

Always so eloquent. And always something new to add to the analysis and broaden understanding. Thank you.

[@hydraxisfrimon9785]

I have labelled the enablers in my head as the Road to Hell construction crew, we are a long way down it now, time for red lights!

[@DexterDexter123]

listening to Helen is so calming, intelligent, logical and fair. i also love the care in her tone when she talks about children, particularly when she says ‘little boys’

[@r8chlletters]

This codification is in contravention of the capabilities of children both physically and developmentally. It’s dangerous and one wonders what the fruits of this fantasist fascist framework will yield in the most innocent members of our society. Thank you for this refreshingly sensible and truthful conversation.

[@rabidcentrist]

Helen Joyce needs to speak on the CBC. Their coverage of Alberta's new legislation is atrocious. They're supposed to be a neutral institution!

[@josephlynn4065]

Go Helen! Question/Observation: Fear of teen suicide for lack of gender treatment runs afoul of history. Where are all the thousands of years of suicides for lack of gender treatment? Where are the suicide notes? There was no such transgender technology so there were few, if any, trans people. If there were, where were the suicides for thousands of years that we don't k now about?

[@darkreverie7027]

Exactly

[@gwenjackson8583]

The suicide argument for gender affirming care is emotional blackmail, full stop. Anyone who says, “If you don’t do what I demand, I will commit suicide” is an emotional abuser.

[@rosablume4346]

I guess in this weird times, especially in theUS with fundamentalistic, homophobic views, yes, the psychological problems get bigger, more anxiety So of course, gender OP are not the solution, but are sold as snake oil to desperate individuals

[@athenamcghee9270]

I always love to hear from Helen. She always makes perfect sense...

[@nbrown5907]

I see this as a movement pushed at least in part now by medical propheteering. Every person they can get to transition is a ward to the medical system for life and that is huge money for the medical system.

[@OrwellsHousecat]

"propheteering" - nice wording, clever

[@theway5563]

@@OrwellsHousecat - Very apropos.

[@mmc1086]

🖤love Helen so much. Xox

[@Messier45_Pleiades]

Me too. She knows her stuff.

[@lexilang5011]

Loved every minute of this! Thank you. Great job! ❤

[@dawnemile7499]

I don't agree that school should be the place to teach children about sex because it has proven to be exploited by nefarious actors.

[@katherineroddy9190]

I'm a retired teacher in California. I took a professional development course through my district, and was told that if a kindergarten or 1st grade boy declared he was a girl, I would be required to agree, and to keep it a secret from the parents. I asked "What should I say to his classmates when they say, "no, he's not a girl." She instructed me to tell the little kids, "No, she is a girl.". I thought "This woman has never worked with five and six years old." The lecturer, who was leading this seminar and telling us how to work with our students, had no credentials. She was not a teacher, or a counselor, or a social work, psychologist, or expert in early childhood education. She was an uncredentialed, untrained volunteer with a pro-trans activist group. That's what the department of education in California.

[@SashaWhiteInterviews]

Incredibly disturbing! Thanks for sharing

[@lmp23612]

I started babysitting when I was 10 years old. Every week I would watch a 2yo and 4yo neighbor's kids. I was allowed to stay out past my own bedtime when I was babysitting! I remember watching SNL. Once I was even allowed to watch an infant at the age of 10. When I was 12yo I got my first "real" job working in a pizza place. It was a different time. We also had a huge pack of kids of all different ages and would be outside all day until it got dark.

[@tammy2755]

So glad helen is on our side !

[@elpear]

Such great practical advice! thank you Helen & Sasha.

[@richardteale3217]

A sensible knowledgeable , grounded person, what a breath of fresh air in our now ridiculous world.

[@xenon23601]

Helen is excellent here. I have a hard time understanding people wanting to be so labeled.

[@Marcus-Spurius-Furius]

All power to Helen Joyce. A voice of Reason.

[@MothMac]

I just love Helen. And her book is amazing!

[@greerstirling9665]

We could go anywhere on the block in the 80's. Every once in a while you'd see 1 of 20 block moms at their door making sure the bike ramp wasnt too high and only three of us were laying down at the end before one of us Evel Knievel'd it. Who remembers resetting the stunt? Every roof had a Frisbee, every squirrel had a nut and the kids on the other block that shared a back gate were weird.

[@taiwanjohn]

I'm gonna have to go back and re-read those Ursula LeGuin books. It's been about 40 years now, and I don't recall them well enough.

[@stevenlightfoot6479]

Great points at 20 mins, even if these 'gender journeys' dont end up in some irreversible medical issue, they are a huge exercise in narcissism, which is pretty socially and emotionally poisonous.

[@hmsealey3243]

I'm the same generation as Helen and fortunately, have very sensible children who can see the problems in gender ideology. I hope I would never have fallen for this, but people are easily swayed by propaganda and easily deceived, so I won't pretend I'd be immune. I'm an author - I write a lot of dystopian, projecting these current ideas into the near future. I'm particularly interested in how what is considered good and kind can become evil and authoritarian so easily. Apparently though, making the people who consider themselves the protagonists into the antagonists is unacceptable. Evil right wingers or evil Christians are fine, anything else is problematic. Boy, has this lost me a lot of interviews and publicity. But writing what I'm inspired to write in more important to me than anything else. I simply want to live in a world where I can tell the truth.

[@carolebrown-op7jg]

So glad you mention The Tombs of Atuan - a wonderful book & very apt indeed.

[@877swissmiss]

Helen, I‘m looking forward to another book of yours on „trans matters“;) Your last (first?) book was my first deeper insight into a critical mind on actual gender „care“ and the social and psychological consequences! ( to society and the affected individuals) That led me to some other interesting books and voices that helped me to keep my mind sane and critical!

[@877swissmiss]

The problem with language change& change in meaning of words is that any institution like schools can then strech out, move around originally very clear rules to whatever they like. If the definition of a woman is not universally agreed on anymore, those who opend the definition to possibilities that change whenever they give an advantage, will adjust their definition to whatever they want whenever they want to and this is very concerning when that group is small but hugely represented in powerful positions and $$…And when the definition itself is made fluid in meaning to include and exclude „case by case“.. I‘ll never call a man a woman and the main reason is that it is a lie and that it would bring danger to me as a woman. So no sir, no access to our spaces!

[@Hidinginyourcupboard]

Fantastic interview, thanks!

[@sonialelii9038]

Love listening to Helen. Pure wisdom.

[@rgghjs9270]

She's wrong unfortunately, Micah Valentine has good content to do with the biology of sex and gender. It's really interesting.

[@slacktoryrecords4193]

@@rgghjs9270What is she wrong about, and how is she wrong?

[@rgghjs9270]

@@slacktoryrecords4193 I think every time I've watched her mixes up sex and gender. She always talks as if people are calling themselves transexual, when its GENDER dysphoria and transGENDER identities. I think she's a disingenuous grifter that plays on peoples bigotries and ignorance of a complicated issue.

[@BoDiddlee]

​@@rgghjs9270well of course you think that.

[@rgghjs9270]

@@BoDiddlee ??

[@bertieboo]

Thank you ladies. Theres something quite reassuring seeing two women with such gorgeous smiles as they attempt to navigate the madness x

[@klauslispector]

Thank you for having Helen Joyce on. She is such a delight and makes so many excellent points here. I will be reading her book. 💜🤍💚

[@TheNierbo]

This was amazing. Thankyou both