The Abusive Wife

[@debbiejones1502]

When Mr. Edgington described what wives say in the counseling session, i.e., “I want my independence”, “I don’t need a man”, etc. it is textbook feminism that has infected women’s minds and hearts. I work at a pregnancy center in CA and the feminists are the most difficult. They are at emnity with their unborn children. Feminism wants men to be fewer and women to take charge. It is the spirit of the age. Thank you for this much needed topic.

[@JAKEBrakeModel94]

Exactly. Feminism isn’t all screeching pink haired crazies in the streets… it exists in churches among very normal appearing women. It’s a massive issue that should be exposed more in the church.

[@Mrs.CGraves]

I agree. Feminism and a multi generational Female led society with SO MANY single mother homes than created a Man hating, no respect for Men in general society. Women think they are equal to Men and don’t understand equality. Equal in value but Roles are different. It’s quite upsetting

[@franziskani]

That is not per se feminism, because single or widowed women had to make do in the past as well. And if she wants out of a marriage (whether it seems justified or not) she would likely use such phrases "I do not need a man" (well yes, but does she WANT to live in the company of one). And "I want my independence" - now the man could be restricting her - unnecessarily and even w/o noticing.

[@garyboulton2302]

@@franziskaniThere is no independence in a marriage, if a woman wants independence she shouldn’t get married. But even if she remains unmarried she will be working so she is dependent on her boss.

[@rebeccapeay1431]

This was so interesting and it described my Mom and my older sister exactly! My Mom was physically and emotionally abusive.. She ripped the family apart because she was unhappy and wanted more. I once asked my Dad why he married her and he said "She wasn't always like this." She was very good at hiding her true character as she was married two more times after divorcing my Dad. She was the typical vindictive ex-wife. She did her best to destroy any chance of a relationship with my younger siblings. I was blessed in the fact that she didn't want me and I was able to live with my Dad. I prayed for years that she would come to know the Lord. I wasn't able to share the gospel with her until right before she died so I am hoping she did accept the Lord.

[@sierragrey7910]

I am so sorry to read of what you and your family went through. Praise be to God for bringing you through all of that.

[@saraalden5294]

Sounds like my childhood. I watched my mom stab my dad in the arm with a knife when I was 5. She then had an affair, because she was "unhappy". She tore the family apart. She did not want my brother and I so we lived with our dad. Eventually she gave my dad my sisters when she realized she wasn't going to get child support. She told everyone how abused she was, she was the most abusive self centered person. I haven't spoken to her in 18 years.

[@Mrs.CGraves]

My mother to a “T”

[@Omar-ko4wv]

As someone who has been blessed with a wonderful wife, I can still see this in women around us. It's heartbreaking and sad. It also leads me to praise God for blessing me with my wife.

[@thriftylady662]

This describes my brothers marriage perfectly. He is a good, gentle man like our father was and she is a reviler. It was so sad to hear him tell our other brother that according to his wife "everything is my fault". Worst of all, she thinks she's a Christian. 😢

[@jammystarfish]

I have first-hand experience and can confirm what David says is true. Otherwise sound churches are unable or unwilling to recognize a reviling wife. They assume the husband is guilty of something to have caused her anger and bitterness. Then, they compel him to confess his unspecified sin.

[@ShirleyAnnPetrillo-oj7sc]

RE-Victimizing the Victims. Evil Females PLAY The Victim Role @ award winning levels.

[@michaelhale867]

Thanks, I had no idea anyone was talking about this. It's very helpful to hear I'm not alone and to have biblical categories for this issue.

[@johe64]

David Edgington--our Bible study host and leader from my Church! David is awesome! Thank you, David for all you do for the Cause of Christ!

[@Kristina-cw2do]

Thanks for this because we have the acknowledge that even women are the monsters in the same way men can be so. Thanks for being objective, Jon.

[@ShirleyAnnPetrillo-oj7sc]

Right. Long term abuse can hollow-out & destroy a good men and this abuse will be learned & used by children. Stockholm syndrome that destroys extended families too.

[@laurenkuo2333]

Unless she has received the forgiveness of Christ, she cannot give it to others. So true, wives must be born again.

[@jefftube58]

This message is SO very important and I thank you Jon for your boldness to expose it. There isn't a Christian radio station, Christian talk show or other Christian venue that will touch this. It is forbidden for them to because of 'the fear of man' that pervades these venues and most, possibly all, evangelical church pastors. They're all afraid of what the women listening will do (example: cutting of funding checks). One of the things that makes current day local churches so weak is their unwillingness to call sin sin in women members and to call rebellion rebellion and kill it off. A woman who reviles her husband or any other form of abuse should be excommunicated when they refuse to change their behavior. The vast majority of pastors are afraid of the women in their congregations. Purge the sin of these wives from the churches and finally hold accountable all of the wives in churches doing this behavior at home.

[@conceptualclarity]

Fear is much of it indeed, but there is also a false ideology in play called chivalry,. Although they didn't mention it by name, Jon and Pastor Edginton rebuffed some of the principles and attitudes of chivalry in the video. I think evangelical pastors and intelligentsia are more deeply immersed in this belief than any other segments of US society. So many of them can't see clearly not just because of fear but because of blinders. And the problem is that men who embrace chivalry feel themselves in their hearts to be much better and nobler men than other men because they embrace chivalry and act on it. So pride stands in the way of their repentance of misandry and the injustice they practice. Chivalry is so common among "right-thinking" evangelical men that leaders have reason to fear retaliation from them as well as from women, and I haven't even addressed the inroads of actual feminism, which chivalry helps facilitate. (Churlish feminists show their gratitude by calling chivalry "benevolent sexism" ☺) For more on chivalry, see my main comments on this thread and my comments under Kevin Rein's post on this thread. See also the Dalrock blog. He had much to say on chivalry and keyworded it. I don't know any way to fight the demon doctrine of chivalry except to point out that it is unsupported by and at odds with the Bible and its anthropology.

[@gregb6469]

It's good to be addressing an issue which flies under the radar in far too many churches.

[@JAKEBrakeModel94]

Very important topic. The church is extremely soft on female sins as evidenced by topics in this conversation. Christians need to be more bold about this topic overall. Hope you address more topics like this 👍

[@GGof3]

Thankful I was able to hear this clear and Godly perspective on wives that are abusive. My mother is just as described by pastor Edgington. I have been struggling my whole life to figure out how to deal with this. I have been asking others to pray for her salvation even though she's been a church goer all her life. She is now 85 and to very resistant to spiritual exhortation and asking God for help with anger or bitterness. I am so sad for my dad, he now has been diagnosed with AD dementia . I asked him how he manages and he said I just don't listen to her. He is born again praise God. I am going to get this book! I am now taking care of them and boy is she mad and bitter about this change in her life. She is so very mean, she blames dad and me now. I was going to find a Christian counselor and this is an answer to my prayer!

[@dr.vonslifeinvesting6485]

I’m literally reading his book right now, it definitely reasonates. Looking back on my marriage I put up with all kinds of stuff I shouldn’t have. The church had definitively always alluded to the fact that a man needed to change to make the marriage better. I would argue that women are much more emotionally abusive than men. According to Facebook my wife was the sweetest woman you would ever meet. At home she once described herself to me as being a cold hearted itch…..and basically I just needed to deal with it. I never heard of church discipline yet spent my whole life going o Lutheran and Methodist churches. Sex was definitely used as a weapon in my marriage. It’s been 8 years since my marriage ended and I still struggle dealing with all the rejection I endured in my marriage and gaslighting that it was all my fault for problems in my marriage.

[@ericwilliams626]

You only allow abuse. It's not really her fault. If you walk into the lion's den are you going to blame the lion for biting you? Women today talk to each other, read magazines and know the laws the lawyers dream up and act accordingly. Not only that but then you have their upbringing. Respect is the ONLY issue in a marriage and women often look for a pushover in the chemistry of being together. They pay a price and complain about their husband not being strong enough later, yet they choose to marry. Remember, men do NOT choose to get married, women do. Men simply ask. You need to ask yourself why you asked her in the first place and a lot of abuse comes from the mother and you think that's reality so you marry a version of your mother, as women often do marrying a version of their fathers. I never married, I never wanted to early on and what I saw in my early years was not very inviting. I grew up with screamers and didn't want that in my life. The bottom line is American women have a gross amount of bitches which the CIA financed Ms. magazine started. Bitches are bitches and there's nothing you can do but walk away. Your wife will pay a price and cross the wrong person. Karma is always hungry and looking for someone to devour. It's just a shame it takes a long time. Good Luck.

[@vamosajugarpelota]

Same her bro his book drive me to understand what happened. Read his book and join us man we email each other's all the time God bless

[@dr.vonslifeinvesting6485]

@@vamosajugarpelota how do I connect?

[@gokupepper]

​@@ericwilliams626 biblical answer rating: 2 out of 10.

[@ericwilliams626]

@@gokupepper I don't know what that means and it doesn't matter.

[@DogOneIsOpen]

Glad you are talking about this. This has flown under the radar for far too long in evangelical circles. We should be able handle this as Christians without going full MGTOW/Red Pill/Andrew Tate. Abusive men exist. Abusive women exist. Let’s not participate in the gender war by picking a faction and shelling the other side with as many bad examples as we can find. We can rise above this as Christians and take a wise and sober minded approach towards male female relationships.

[@aztec0112]

"Wise" and "sober minded" seem suspiciously absent from evangelicalism's vocabulary anymore.

[@conceptualclarity]

I agree Pro Deo that you don't fight fire with fire. We don't want the ugly spectacle of replacing disgraceful pro-female anti-male bias in the church with the opposite. But there does need to be some significant work to repent and correct the existing bias and it's going to be uncomfortable to some people and we're just going to have to push ahead with it in spite of those people's discomfort.

[@DogOneIsOpen]

@@conceptualclarity Good point. It’s still going to need to be brought up. I think the guest on this podcast did a good job of presenting a balanced approach. One good byproduct of MGTOW/Red Pill is that some of their ideas are going to bleed into the church. Some will take it too far, but the truths are powerful enough that they can’t be ignored without mental gymnastics. It reminds me of Mark Driscoll, who I used to follow in the past. While claiming to be a “tough” pastor he was really only tough against men, and women got the princess treatment. He was hard in men who may have been trying to stand up for themselves, and encouraged men to marry single mothers etc. He was coming from a position as a pastor who seems to have a wise and thoughtful wife. It sounds like he came across a lot of Jezebels during the pileup at Mars Hill (and some of that catastrophe may rest on his shoulders). But since then he’s obviously been influenced by some Red Pill content, and recently he did a pretty decent series on the Jezebel / Ahab spirits. I think some of his recommendations still fall short. The way I see it is that with some of these women you either A) try to be gentle and speak the truth in love and have her hound you for the rest of your life or B) After a season of patience you finally have enough, stand up for yourself and display some manly/Godly vigor in self defense (not afraid to get angry / acting confidently / not putting up with any more verbal abuse) with a 50% chance it won’t end in divorce. My take is that these particular women are succumbing to their natural biological programming to accept nothing less than the top 10% male. Simply being humble and patient will actually trigger these women even more. They think you aren’t capable of standing up for yourself. Pastors, elders, and men in the church are going to have to start sharing with other men that in some cases B is the only option.

[@conceptualclarity]

@@DogOneIsOpen You are so correct. For some women pursuing the humble and patient approach indefinitely is going to serve as an incitement to go bonk a low character/thick bicep biker type.

[@GodlessGubment]

your entire religion is a faction that is shelling the other side with as many bad examples as you can find

[@elle_a6475]

This is an amazing podcast! I would love to see some resources for adult children with reviling mothers. This is so hard to deal with and many within the church do not understand. If you have a reviling mother, you are told to give them a pass because after all she is your mother. This issue has gone unaddressed for far too long. I cannot wait to read this book. Thank you so much for your work!

[@aliciadavis2443]

I too would like to know more about the effects a reviling mother has on her children. She often has primary custody and a revolving door of men post divorce. The internal conflict in a boy’s mind on the contrary behavior mixed with the honor she receives is often ongoing especially to sons into adulthood. They struggle with how to perceive women as adults. Along with what their appropriate role is in establishing their own family.

[@aliciadavis2443]

It is the internal love and hate mix. No clarity.

[@nobel9511]

Thank you for doing this one Jon , your guest has it together I’ve been there and I’d just add that Voddie Baucham talks about feminism in the church and this is one of the symptoms . I pray the Lord blesses you to keep up the good work

[@PacmanBonez]

been going through exactly this for several years now. What makes it nearly impossible is always feeling as though I'm a step behind. The reviler is always one step ahead.

[@bcm1621]

I feel for you brother, it is so wearing to know that everyday no matter what you do. You will fail and therfore suffer the consquences of the inability to appease. I am praying for you Adam

[@christianlenci506]

I can't tell you how much Dr. Edgington's book helped me. It described my landscape, my isolationism, but most importantly gave me Biblical guidance on what to do. If I may suggest: Get it and Read his book. It absolutely helped me, and believe it will help you understand your reviling wife. Will pray for you. Regards, Christian

[@johnfreeman9766]

@@christianlenci506 I'm not married and I think its still worth a read. I'd say take your stand and never back down from it. If she leaves its on her. Don't tolerate disrespect without answering for it with consequences each and every time. I almost think you have to treat these kind of women l like a misbehaving child in a way.

[@dnashj33]

@@johnfreeman9766 ...NEVER marry a hot-tempered woman! She is very likely a Narcissist with explosive Narcissistic Rage Fits, like my wife (I will soon file for divorce). What you see before marriage is not going to be the real person. She will feel free to let her anger out on you once she has the ring on her finger. So, again, if you notice a hot-temper or you have Big arguments before marriage, call it off. It is a tiny sample of what is to come.

[@chastaelaine76]

Excellent work gentlemen… thank you 😊

[@betty8173]

Thank you. Hard subject. Prayers for husbands. The ending really blessed. To God be all glory.

[@stevenswaim4240]

Great topic and would play into why women should not be pastors and why Paul would be animate about women not speaking in certain situations. As a former pastor I can tell you that it was a woman in the congregation that was busy behind my back at forcing me out. Good job!

[@kimalonzo3363]

How did she force you out?!

[@samsdad110]

Most pastors in smaller churches, even reformed ones, are very unprepared to deal with situations like this in counseling, as I have experienced an overwhelming bias over a decade ago for the wife on behalf of my former pastor, and even when I exposed her treachery while we were undergoing counseling, he would not look at the proof. In fact, while we were in counseling, she was sneaking around meeting up with an old boyfriend, who she never got over it turned out. Didn’t matter as I still had to undergo church discipline until I was wrongly excommunicated. The fact that I could’ve resigned my membership before that didn’t matter as I hung in there. Trying to save my marriage. Was reinstated by a sister church two years later. Meanwhile, my ex-wife has done nothing toward reinstatement since excommunication as well, and doesn’t take it seriously, although she certainly should. She’s already got ex-husband number two she’s now living with again.

[@DogOneIsOpen]

The lack of of preparedness in reformed circles is jaw-dropping. I’ve seen plenty five point Calvinist, high church, traditional, God-loving pastors and elders that completely drop the ball every time when it comes to women. They don’t mean to be ignorant. They are just still enamored with the idea of women who were of a different era than modern women.

[@jimflys2]

You guys! This is so interesting and I have a story for you. I laughed when you said the church has been slow to respond. O.k. in 1988, my then super liberal church in the ELCA had invited a lesbian woman to come and give a talk about abused women (by men). I attended the presentation at my church in Marion, Ohio. Should I name the now dead pastor and church? Nah, but I could. The pastor had made all the arrangements for this event. During the Q and A, I brought up the question about men that are abused by women, of whom my brother was victim. I was politely shut down when I brought this issue to the fore. She said, "the incidents where that happens is so miniscule and that domestic violence if bar far a much greater issue with men abusing women." I was not yet trying to stir the pot at all. It was all one sided. It shouldn't happen on any side. At 24 years of age, I was just starting to discover what apostasy was and in particular in my own church and church body. It was startling. Then I started to figure it out. All I had to do was start to ask pointed questions. Then I learned the truth. This was about 6 months after this presentation. But this was a litmus test for what I discovered for sure. 35 years ago. ELCA has so far derailed it is not even recognizable. Only a few small congregations can even be called evangelical, Lutheran and a church. I will take anyone to the mat who cares to wrestle me on this.

[@Robert_Sparkman_01]

I have a friend whose wife was abusive towards him. She later divorced him. I know he had abandonment issues stemming from his childhood. I wondered how he handled the divorce. I lost touch with him long before the divorce but learned about it from his Facebook page.

[@conceptualclarity]

1 thing on which conservative complementarians and feminist-leaning woke evangelicals have been united: rejection of biblical anthropology and embrace of the counter-biblical idea that sin is largely a male problem. For conservative evangelicals the root is their embrace of the false ideology of chivalry which views women as good and men as bad. Chivalry has made it impossible for feminism to be fought effectively in our culture. So we see the increasingly remarked-upon dichotomy of the syrupy Mother's Day sermon and the scathing Father's Day sermon in which all of society's problems are blamed on men. By embracing false chivalry and radically siding with women against men as is well described in this video, the evangelical church in America is making itself deeply complicit in something it does not desire: the destruction of the institution of marriage in America.

[@DogOneIsOpen]

Yes, it’s the chivalry mindset. You hit the nail on the head.

[@conceptualclarity]

BRAVO, JON and kudos to your guest! Perhaps the best and most important podcast you have done yet, going where even the most based evangelicals have feared to tread! After having covered reviling in this podcast, I hope that you will have him back on to deal with the problem of domestic violence in marriages, which much statistical data shows is primarily initiated by wives. If you need info on that I can go back and do some digging. Then when you really get up your courage, I hope you will do a deep dive on sexual refusal in marriage and the abject failure of the church to rebuke this scripturally condemned sin which is devastating Christian families.

[@jeannet7443]

As I listened to this, I was immediately reminded of the curse God pronounced on the woman in Genesis 3:16. Most translations say, "Your desire will be for your husband, and he will rule over you.” The NLT says this, however: "You will desire to control your husband, but he will rule over you.” I have heard this interpretation before, and it actually makes more sense to me, especially after listening to this podcast, and in light of what is going on today in the culture and many churches as well. A woman who is reviling her husband would appear to be desiring to control him or rule over him, thus in fact reversing God's order of marriage. Marriage and the family are being redefined, roles are being reversed, and we all know it. There is a war against the image of God across the board.

[@jsong8282]

The desire in the first translation is mirrored in Genesis 4 which says sins desire is towards man - so the NLT is more explanatory but the KJV means the same thing. Sorry for the soap box

[@elibennett6168]

I looked into this and there is not a good scriptural basis for this interpretation. Yes Genesis 4 uses a version of the word desire, tə·šū·qā·ṯōw, but so also does Song of Solomon 7:10. "I belong to my beloved, and his desire is for me. Songs is widely understood as representing God's love for us (and a metaphorical marriage). Unless you are willing to argue that God's love is controlling, usurping, this interpretation does not work. Rather, it seems best to rake it at face value that women continue to desire husbands and bring forth children despite the sorrow and pain it brings.

[@matty31272]

Good topic John. No one is exempt from facts.

[@MG-ed8gs]

Thank you very much for this! Much needed!!!!

[@Mrs.CGraves]

Women can be ruthless abusers. Towards Husbands and children. We must speak out and shut down the norm of women complaining about Family. Talking poorly in a joking manner continuously is the start, then, behind closed doors it gets worse. And being a Pastors wife, or secretary or associate at the church does not make them “good/better” Christians. We have to show encourage and demonstrate strong Godly Psalm 31 Wives and Mothers roles ESPECIALLY to newly married couples in Christ, Keep the focus on Christ and the Word and it will be a guide. Abuse is never ok. Women can 100% be abusive and women need to guide women better.

[@ShirleyAnnPetrillo-oj7sc]

Being a Gossip, Slanderer is a red flag 🚩 too.

[@Chuckbobuck201]

My mother was horribly abusive, to my dad, to us as kids, to extended family, neighbors, basically everybody. My dad had saintly patience and expressed to me many times that his vows were for life, and they were. He was married to her 55+ years to her until his death.

[@arkrainflood]

there is the old joke: why do husbands typically die before their wives? answer: because they want to...😅

[@marymack1]

Pray for God to raise up wise, discerning, godly men to lead in the family, church, and state/culture. Younger and older (via raising/training, salvation, and sanctification). 🙏

[@ericwilliams626]

The only way a woman should control a man, in the context of a good marriage, is her presence calms him down. That is a gift some women have. They are just so feminine and nurturing, the man cannot resist her calm state and finds his better self. That's the way a woman should control a man. "You make me want to be a better man."

[@susandumbill8805]

Hi Eric, that's interesting to hear, as a single woman. I used to work as a mental health nurse, and it was commonly acknowledged that if a male patient was upset and feeling inclined to lash out physically, sometimes female nurse's presence could calm him down, rather than male nurses rushing in to confront him, and maybe physically restrain him. I had the privilege of helping a man feeling like this once, and it felt great! He became more relaxed, and everything around him settled down. He was never a 'problem', actually, he just got very anxious and upset one day, and needed us to be calm and try to understand him. He was so easy to look after, really. To be honest, I've always preferred nursing men, as they might 'blow up' emotionally, but women can be so argumentative and manipulative. Men seem more straightforward to me. If only I could find a good male friend who is a genuine christian.

[@ericwilliams626]

@@susandumbill8805 Thank you for the response. You have a gift and you are using what God gave you in the way He intended. Wanting companionship from the opposite sex is so riddled with complications today, I just gave up and allow life to bring whomever. They seem to pop up, then go away, and others show up, and so on. I have dogs who provide faithful companionship and make me laugh.

[@gregwillhite8003]

I"m a victim of this. I now live in a trailer on the outskirts of town, not welcome in town or in church because of the reviling wife now ex-wife. My ministry and my life and marriage of 20 years has been consistently undermined by a "Reviling Wife"...

[@nodramamomma2777]

My brother is in a similar situation. I am very sorry. We talk about becoming more Christlike, He was perfect and rejected/reviled by his friends, the refinement process is pointing you to the One who will never leave or forsake you.

[@johnfreeman9766]

At some point your wives usurped and you didn't check it. Sin on your part. God's design is for a husband to be the head and a wife to be in submission. A very common sin is for women to usurp the created order because of her fallen nature and because of the husband's fallen nature he sinfully acquiesces to it. I think it's more common in our part of the world then a sinfully wicked rule on the part of a husband. Others cultures that is more common.

[@jefftube58]

Greg, I don't pretend to have answers but I encourage you to live a new life the best you can, and possibly even one day find a woman who will love you for you. They're out there - I'm married to one. I wish you the best.

[@susandumbill8805]

Hi Greg, I'm so sorry to hear this. I really do hope God vindicates you and that life gets better.

[@AHappyBachelor]

I'm sorry to hear that Greg, and I hope that you're doing well a year after your comment

[@christophersalvatoreraimun8578]

Excellent show, with a very important relevant topic and very well presented. Thank you.

[@Tacticaldynamicsforce]

Thanks this IS A Must topic thar need to be addressed.

[@SandraDevant]

Thank you for writing and speaking on this topic. I wish there was more awareneness. I truly wish men had more help in this.

[@leahstewart6979]

My father in law was terribly abused/reviled by his wife and it’s caused lasting harm to their children and their marriages. Only Jesus can heal.

[@jb-jd950]

My FIL was also. It damages the kids terribly.

[@leahstewart6979]

@@jb-jd950 I’m sorry you’ve seen it too.

[@daniellenunez185]

This is excellent. Thank you.

[@JamesRiddle_Christ_is_King]

I wonder how many of these women would rate high on the psychopathy or sociopathy scale.

[@ShirleyAnnPetrillo-oj7sc]

DSM, Axis 2, Cluster B. Sociopaths & Psychopaths are most similar to Antisocial Personality Disorder.

[@dnashj33]

I bought his book straight away after watching this podcast video. Like he said, it is EXACTLY what I am experiencing and even a couple me and my wife are friends with, don't treat my wife's abusive behavior seriously. They just say "You both need help." All of our big arguments are big because she makes them big...with explosive anger outbursts. When II try to calm my wife down and say I don't want to argue...she interprets that as "Shut Up!" No. It means I don't want to argue and largely because her fits of Rage are too overwhelming. It's ALWAYS disproportionate to the perceived issue.

[@johnp7739]

Yep. Another one: "We don't talk enough." When we do talk, it's a one way conversation about everything terrible I do (including some very minor things). If I bring up any sin or weakness of hers, she either storms off and slams a door or sometimes breaks something.

[@johntobey1558]

Marriage counseling is a very important ministry because you are dealing with two sinners. Actually three because the mental health professionals is only as good as his faith walk with Christ himself.

[@carolbarlow8896]

Amen

[@johntobey1558]

I am a Marriage Counselor who attempts to embodied Biblical Anthropology , with Christ's help amd through his mercy.

[@ShirleyAnnPetrillo-oj7sc]

If spouse is diagnosed with Axis 2 Cluster B Personality Disorder? DON’T hopelessly HOPE for any change. Find these 4 disorders (online) then compare symptoms to 2 Timothy chapter 3. DON’T expect any Repentance from any Reprobate. 😣

[@ivotheg2397]

Definitely need part 2 Jon Harris. Very enlightening conversation.

[@aliciadavis2443]

Please have this man back on to talk about Parental Alienation. It is one of the worse forms of child abuse. I think it may be tied into the narcissistic epidemic and the transgender of men wanting to act violently toward women because of the abuse inflicted upon them as children by their mothers.

[@christianlenci506]

Agreed - continue the conversation! But the topic goes both ways. The nuclear war women wage when the man resists putting her on the pedestal instead of God. Both men and women are sinful and can use the kids as pawns in their war. The reasons are varied but I would submit the main reasons are control and pride.

[@tanks1945]

For single men how do you spot such a woman and not marry her.

[@marymack1]

Voddie Baucham has a talk called What She Must Be, a compliment to His talk/book What He Must Be If He Wants To Marry My Daughter. It's on KZbin.

[@solideomusical]

Is she a Democrat? How is her relationship with her father? Does she always have to have the last word? Watch a movie with her and notice how she reacts to relationship issues. Is she always siding with the female and condemning the male without knowing the circumstances (or, worse yet, *despite* the circumstances?) Does she joyfully depend on you, look to you and submit to you or is she always trying to lead , take control and act independently? Does she see herself raising kids or climbing the 'career ladder'? How does she respond when she sees a very pregnant woman or a family with a bunch of kids? Do her plans involve family adventures or just her pleasure and comfort?

[@aztec0112]

In today's society, it is better to remain single. There is no benefit, not one, none, in being married. It is not a state that men should aspire to. Divorce rates in the church are at least as common as in secular society. There is plenty of content out there that goes into greater (and more controversial) detail. Sadly, most of it is secular in nature. The modern church, in general, idolizes and panders to women. Men, particularly in one community, are stampeding from the church because it offers nothing to men. Stay on your grind, build your life, work hard, serve God and your community. That is your first duty.

[@elibennett6168]

Don't listen to advice that doesn't start with praying for your future wife and seeking God's direction. What he joins let no man put asunder. I met my spouse after praying and we have been married now 26 years. We are both committed not just to each other and God, but to the idea of marriage.

[@solideomusical]

@@elibennett6168 That is a given for believers- not sure if the OP is a believer or not.

[@chipseal9403]

"Shut up!" they replied.

[@jimbattles9642]

I had a gentleman teaching a bible study many years ago and he had a chart showing the steps you are discussing. if you start with having to have your own way, it turns to bitterness and do not deal with it, it becomes worse. anger, depression and the cycle continues and gets worse with each time it is not dealt with.

[@SandraDevant]

Would love to see this chart

[@jamesirvin7799]

There are women who are abusive with sex sometimes when they can hold out for months until they get their way on an issue.

[@Hopeapotheke]

Thank you for this

[@danreichenberg5249]

The sin pattern that many of these women exhibit is classified by the APA as "Borderline Personality Disorder." The person who exhibits BPD behavior begins the relationship with a "valuation" or "love bombing" phase where they pump up their potential victim. They pretend to be kind and compassionate. They pretend to have all the beliefs and values as their potential victim. They pretend to care about their potential victim and to love their potential victim. But, once they get their victim into an appropriately binding relationship, they shift to the "devaluation" stage of the relationship, where they start using abusive behavior as a means of control. Whenever I would say no to my ex-wife (and there was plenty that needed to be said no to) she would throw increasingly violent fits. If yelling denigrating remarks didn't work, she would resort to threats of self harm, and then to self harm. One night she literally beat her head against the door frame of the kitchen door (while yelling about how stupid she had been to marry a big meanie like me). I interlinked my fingers and placed them between her head and the door frame so she wouldn't hurt herself. She moved over to the kitchen counter and was beating her head on that (with my fingers still in the way) when she decided to change strategies and grabbed a (thankfully not sharp) dollar store steak knife out of a kitchen drawer. She then proceeded to try to stab herself with the steak knife. I grabbed the steak knife's blade in my hand to keep her from stabbing herself and spent the next several hours laying on the kitchen floor with the blade of a serrated steak knife in my hand until she eventual gave up and went to bed. I believe the whole episode lasted about six hours. That was only one of many episodes. The only way to prevent an episode was to submit to whatever destructive thing she wanted to do (bankruptcy, sexual immorality). Of course my large PCA church wasn't any help. In fact they were the opposite. They insisted on me moving back (into a situation where I was in physical and moral danger) after I had moved out, and then abandoned me (asked me to leave the church) after I insisted that they actually follow the Book of Church Order and practice church discipline instead of whatever they thought they were doing. They sent us to a female secular counselor who separated us so that my ex could bare false witness against me (of course she told the counselor I was abusing her), and then when my ex got home she would tell me things about "what the counselor said" which may or may not have been true. That is a total mistake when you are dealing with a master manipulator who isn't afraid to lie. Bottom line, what the large PCA church did to me was evil. I certainly hope none of the men involved go to hell, but I do hope that Jesus takes a paddle to their behinds for several hours before He lets them into heaven. All they had to do was follow the BCO... But, no!!! I'm in a better place now, but the harm that relationship had on me is incalculable. And, much of it could have been avoided if the church had been willing to exercise church disciple in accordance with the Bible and the BCO.

[@elibennett6168]

I'm very sorry about your experience and you raise an excellent point. Some estimates indicate BPD is about 1.6% of the population and about 75% women of that number (though researchers urge caution because women are more likely to seek treatment and thus counted as more prevalent). Many will have at least one attempt at suicide. Clearly it sounds like your ex was mentally ill and self-harming, and it is horrible that the church did not recognize you both needed a different kind of help. It sounds like you were unequally yoked in the marriage and she was likely not a Christian who was unafraid to lie. Our family went through a tragedy when our nephew's wife took her life six months after they married. She was bi-polar, fighting depression, and felt like she was letting her new husband down. She was a sweet girl. She also heard voices and it has haunted me what spiritual component may have been at play as well. In this case, we do believe the sincerity of her Christian faith but mental illness, as deadly as cancer, killed her. The self-harm was turned inward, not toward husband. He knew her condition before they were married.

[@brianpeters5722]

You have no idea how your post hits so close to home. My church did nothing as well (OPC).

[@franziskani]

Your ex wife is mentall ill and or has a personality disorder. if she love bombed you she might be a narcissist (and many of those also have BPD, those overlap). She should have been evaluted by someone that is specialized in mentall illness / personality disorders. No idea if therapy and or medication could help her. The pastors are out of their league, and so is a regual marriage counselor. That is not just an overreaching, badly behaving spouse or one that loses their temper. (and the knowledge that her evangelical husband may really hesistate to divorce can contribute to her not making an effort. Complacency sets in). Her behavior however was pathological. So kicking her out of the church (even for sexual transgressions) may not be appropriate. Is she even responsible for what she is doing. I would assume she still knows what she is doing (when starting affairs and the like). As for the sin / offense of yelling at you, and doing self harm (while also harming you) - that may have been beyond her control. However, that should be evaluated by peope that know about it. Maybe there is some consolation in the fact that you are lucky NOT to have such a disorder (or had a childhood that messed you up that badly).

[@Aemlief1]

At about min33 He missed the point that it is socially acceptable for women to be 'loose' before marriage. They are 'alpha widowed'. Women now carry that attitude into their marriages. Oh, & if you think that ain't in the church (if you don't think Pastors don't ignore this) think again...

[@macsprinter]

I'm afraid you're right.

[@conceptualclarity]

I have never heard of alpha widowed. What is that about?

[@DogOneIsOpen]

It’s the concept that often times a woman will have a pre-marital relationship with a masculine/jock/alpha type. Because of his masculine energy or her controlling nature, the relationship may not last, often because he wants to move on to someone else. But the woman, having experienced raw masculine energy in such a way will have a very difficult time getting over it. She may marry a decent Christian guy (who may have a masculine side but he keeps it in check, his ego and sexuality isn’t driving his whole life). This guy may be receptive to trying to love her in a way that she says she wants (she may say she wants a nice guy, or be “close,” or have “trust.” But in reality she yearns for the excitement of the raw masculinity that she experienced before. She may be emotionally checked out in her marriage, and no amount of marriage books and “positive communication” will get her to invest in the relationship because she is ultimately judging her current relationship by the feels that her previous experience gave her even though ultimately that relationship failed. Men are susceptible to this as well but men naturally tend towards sinful sexual variety, whereas women are inclined towards sinful desire for a top sexual experience with a top dominant male. You only need to look at how many copies of 50 Shades of Grey were sold to get a glimpse in the secret desires of some even “Christian” women’s hearts.

[@macsprinter]

@@DogOneIsOpen So true. There's so much else which can be said about this. Thought this was good: kzbin.info/www/bejne/maHVg6tsoaxmjbc

[@patriciabrooks7482]

Some families learned this behavior from their parents. Its a learned behavior they learned growing up.

[@veraivakic]

this is true and if that's the case we should repent for this and ask God to heal us

[@elijahmthompson2313]

Great podcast

[@jenlokken]

The relationship with the highest rates of domestic violence are lesbian relationship, the relationship with the lowest rates are g@y men, and in heterosexual relationships 70% of domestic violence is initiated by women against men, 29% of domestic violence that gets reported are cases where a man gets sick of it, and defends himself from his wife, 1% of domestic violence is, especially cyclical that Hollywood depicts of the psychotic man just going after his doting and submissive wife, who is walking on eggshells trying to keep him happy, there is great Harvard study on it. I have heard absolutely horrific stories of the abuse women do to men, every thing from hitting with frying pans, pouring boiling water over them, breaking lamps on men, Erin Pizzey is must watch on KZbin. But with domestic violence and divorce, women are the problem and instigators of both, not men.

[@conceptualclarity]

This is true!

[@christianlenci2195]

Love to see the data on this - can you share the source?

[@jenlokken]

@@christianlenci2195 It was a study done by Harvard.

[@cosmictreason2242]

Oh hey I’ve seen you on Facebook. I choose to be anonymous in all other social media though 😛

[@Flotsam7jetsam]

My two daughters encountered a small issue with one of their next door neighbor friends. They were watching a movie together and ran out of time but they all agreed to wait to watch the rest of it at another time. Then next week my girls make an offer to finish the movie together, and the neighbor girl responds that she already watched it and they should simply watch something else. 1.> No apology whatsoever "hey this got the best of me and I ended up watching it. So sorry. 2.> Didn't keep it to herself and just rewatch it to keep her honor. "Oops I did that. I'll just rewatch it with them! no problem." My girls were left somewhat confused. I had to say, simply, (too my girls) lots of girls today, just don't or won't apologize or repent for their actions no matter how small. My son overheard my private conversation and said, "Dad everyone knows women don't apologize. That's a meme now." What the heck? (i.e. it's starts out small like this. But encounter after encounter, year after year, of not repenting for your actions begins to shape the person inside in a not so negative frame, albeit male of female.)

[@NeededGR13F]

Yep, that's my little sister. Got some guy convinced she's this sweet non-argumentative little thing, and they're engaged to be married soon. Poor sucker has no idea what he's getting tangled up in.

[@katherinecornette5315]

Oh I have witnessed both and terrible harm to the family. Unless God builds the house…

[@macsprinter]

Jon, have you considered interviewing Bnonn Tennant (It's Good to be a Man: Godly Masculinity)?

[@teresaradsick7314]

I think feminism, in general, is reviling.

[@darrellpowell4331]

See how much ink you can find on the Curse (Gen 3:15-17). There is very little in any commentaries. Even Calvin with his 25 volume has one small paragraph on something that is in our lives until the second advent. I ask Pastors with a huge number of letters after their name and they say the publishers won't touch it.

[@theresa42213]

SO RIGHT about how men are treated! l have a son, and he is confused about why white men are so maligned these days. He suffers from aspergers and l can see he is quite sad about it. :(

[@pinkroses135]

New Thought is fueling this I think. It's a symptom of a bigger rot. If this issue actually gets ministry or outreach going for it the modern church will go nuts to fight it tooth and nail..

[@chiefofsinners5272]

Yup. There are therapists and pastors out there taking credit in their marriage for what the wife's father actually contributed. These types look down easily on men who married Christian women and now find themselves in a project.

[@vickifarrar1170]

I totally believe this happens and it's good you are addressing it, however, in my 30 years of being a conservative Christian....l have never seen a broadcast or sermon addressing spousal abuse towards women within the church.

[@vickifarrar1170]

Crickets

[@wk1810]

I remember being in a book study, and the elder leading it mentioned about a man who married a woman of a different religion (the man wasn't of that religion), and how the wife's family took over their children and basically treated him like he was a dog. Well, two women in the group laughed at the man's predicament. I leaned over to my husband and said "bet they would be all up in arms if it were the other way around". There have been only 2 types of women I've met in the church: haughty, domineering, and brash OR mealy-mouthed, cowrdly, and hypocritical.

[@marymack1]

If a spouse is church disciplined (aka excommunicated), does the other spouse still attend?

[@eurekahope5310]

Yes. That has happened in our church. Good news! The spouse repented and returned to fellowship.

[@Yesica1993]

@@eurekahope5310 Wow!

[@graysonbr]

I truly believe if a spouse is excommunicated, that it can warrant a divorce to be granted, if the spouse continues to not repent.

[@JR-rs5qs]

​@graysonbr that's not what 1 Cor 7 outlines for the believing spouse. There's a chasm of difference between separation and divorce (which is never permissible except for undisclosed premarital fornication).

[@wildbill562]

@@JR-rs5qs " undisclosed premarital fornication" Are you serious?

[@Mrs.CGraves]

Men first red flag of abusive Wives: BRIDEZILLAS.

[@ShirleyAnnPetrillo-oj7sc]

🎯

[@alexanderellis6657]

Is it okay to leave a woman who is abusive please let me know this is serious

[@comethoufounttunemyheart]

I think it's called being a 'covert narcissist'

[@susandumbill8805]

I don't believe for one moment that men deserve to be mistreated by women, be it reviled or otherwise. And vice versa. The fact is that both men & women do this, cause untold damage to each other - and to their children who grow up listening to it, and being on the receiving end. Abuse is abuse, regardless of who inflicts it. If only we could learn to respect, support and yes, submit to each other, as needed, as appropriate, surely it could make such a difference? Men need sensitivity just as women do. Men so much need to be able to talk, to pour their hearts out, and, yes, to have a good cry when things get too much. It's healthy, and can relieve the pressure. They really need someone who will listen, and work with them, not against them. The Church needs to change too; blaming an abused wife while defending a genuinely abusive husband, and vice versa. Men and women suffer much because of these injustices and compromise.

[@conceptualclarity]

Dr. Helen Smith quoting Richard Driscoll book You Still Don't Understand: it has been found that women berate their husbands almost twice as often as men berate their wives. Uncommon Knowledge website How to Avoid Relationship Meltdown "... criticising was generally more of a female trait..." Saw something about corroboration of this from an Australian study.

[@ShirleyAnnPetrillo-oj7sc]

Perhaps 3rd Wave Feminism is demonically fueled ?

[@Hiraeth-zq8ze]

We should have double standard for women and men when it comes to abuse. Men and women are not the same, we are not feminists and should not use feminist rhetoric. Nothing annoys me more than Christians taking on the assumptions of feminism even when they supposedly oppose it.

[@CatholicCarlismEnjoyer]

No. That's just plan wrong, men and women aren't the same, but they are equal in dignity. No one should be subject to the abuse of the other, no one should lay a hand on the other except in the case of self defense.

[@ReformedTradesman]

Has anyone heard the term "hidden fruit" in the context of biblical counseling?

[@cosmictreason2242]

No but commenting to get a notification if someone answers

[@franziskani]

It is interesting that the host several times brings up the MeToo Movement and it is only 13:00 minutes - MeToo is about se*ual abuse and abuse of power dynamics in institutions - males against females (especially at the work place). Desparaging family members (women reviling men, or men being verbally abusive towards the wife, or both verbally abusing the kids) are of course problems - but are not the issue for MeToo. This is about relative strangers abusing their power, or se*ual abuse also within families and aquaintances.

[@johnp7739]

MeToo is largely about false accusations of women who can never be questioned. Tons of men have been victims (I know some). Your "power dynamics" is a bunch of Marxist gibberish, similar to CRT.

[@RachelRamey]

Women see this because we're "allowed" to see it. At least relative to men. Societally speaking, it's more taboo for men to recognize women can have faults than it is for women to recognize that women have faults. I would think that, statistically, physical abuse would be more common among men and reviling would be more common among women.

[@DogOneIsOpen]

If you look deep into domestic violence situations, there’s a far different reality that is shown in the numbers. A Harvard domestic violence study found that a majority of domestic violence situations are actually initiated by women. Women are more likely to be seriously injured by domestic violence, but women were far more likely to face serious injury if they initiated the violence than those who had not. This study included female self reporting. Females themselves reported that of those relationships where there was one-sided domestic violence, 70% of the women stated they had initiated it. Harvard took down the study from their website as it was likely problematic. But was peer reviewed in the American Journal for Public Health. I’m not whitewashing domestic violence by men, but I think there is a large number of men who are victims but for societal/legal reasons are in a very difficult situation.

[@ShirleyAnnPetrillo-oj7sc]

👏👏👏 You are right 🎯

[@kevinrein519]

Is it possible that a percentage of the wives who are reviling are doing so because their husbands are soft and effeminate? He did say they are soft, men are not to be known by being soft and sweet. The husband bears the responsibility for the wife’s actions, since he is the head. Perhaps some of the problem is due to men refusing to take responsibility for their reviling wife and rebuke her in a Godly way. Men by nature do not like taking responsibility

[@douglasmcnay644]

The problem is that these women will take any criticism/rebuke as attacks or abuse and will continue to revile him to anyone who will listen. Unless the local church is prepared to stand upon Scripture and actually actively shame/combat this practice, it will not change.

[@theeternalsbeliever1779]

It's not even close to being true that men do not naturally like to take responsibility.

[@DogOneIsOpen]

There are cases where the man isn’t the classic weak/effeminate straw man. I’ve seen cases where the guy simply isn’t a jerk, or is patient, or trying to love a wife with a deeply insecure attachment style. It’s important to realize the environment most Christian men have been immersed in. Family Life Radio, Zondervan books, etc have done their best to take the John Wayne out of Christian husbands. In some ways this was good actually (saying this as a huge John Wayne fan). Men should have the capacity for love and patience. But women are now reaping what they’ve sown and they’ve created a class of men that don’t have the capacity for godly aggression (though many men still do, they just only save it for appropriate times). And some women who are still deep down captured by their own sexual nature are absolutely horrified by the mere perception that their husband might be weaker than other men (often worldly men not impacted by Christian culture) who are more comfortable with their manliness. I think a lot of Christian women yearn for the bad boy they never had.

[@conceptualclarity]

@@DogOneIsOpen I have never listened to Family Life Radio but I know that Dalrock was pretty hard on it and he had pretty good judgment.

[@conceptualclarity]

@@DogOneIsOpen it is indeed true that pastors and Christian influencers like Family Life Radio who encourage Christian husbands to be less manly are helping to diminish Christian husbands' attractiveness to their wives and thereby helping to encourage sexual refusal in Christian marriages and even female infidelity when that bad boy starts to look better because of the overly tame husband.

[@elibennett6168]

Two points to underscore what the pastor is saying. First, the women in question are often not born again Christians. The bible is very clear about not being unequally yoked. Men and women should know the other's heart for Christ before ever considering marriage. There are wheat and tares in every church. The Spirit delights in truth and is faithful to reveal the tares. It is important not to marry someone God has not selected for you. Second, the pastor's experience indicates many of these women were molested or abused, which actually supports the Me Too movement's beginning (not what it has become). That bitter root has an origin in someone else's sin, then blossoms into new sin, and it is God that breaks the cycle of abuse when people can walk out in grace and forgiveness. I'd like to add that the pastor is not talking about garden variety disagreements and conflicts that every marriage has from time to time. Also, a man who loves a woman, cares about her salvation and spiritual maturation. Be willing to relieve her from household duties so she can go to bible study or women's retreats, and honor her theological learning.

[@ShirleyAnnPetrillo-oj7sc]

Band aids don’t stop hemorrhages

[@americanhealthcaresurvivor]

Your comment demonstrates how deeply feminism is rooted in the Church. Do women sin? Are they capable of sin that is only their fault? The biblical answer is yes. Repent of your feminist attitude, accept responsibility for your sins, and ask God to mold your heart.

[@elibennett6168]

@@americanhealthcaresurvivor This comment adds nothing to this particular conversation. NO ONE argued women do not sin.

[@Whatisthematterwithyoupeople]

It seems like more psychology and not enough Sovereignty of God here. Doesn’t God put people together for a reason? As two selfish people, we are to grow in Christ and over time do better in these things. God doesn’t promise perfect marriages. I just hear a lot of victim talk from both sides now. I agree we all need to humble ourselves before our Holy God.

[@ShirleyAnnPetrillo-oj7sc]

Some people REFUSE self examination, correction, TRUTH. Free Will is given to all.

[@patriciagrant6687]

🌟🌟🌟🌟🌟

[@tom-vx1lp]

amber heard

[@johnfreeman9766]

These husband's are weak and have allowed their wives to this pattern of behavior.

[@conceptualclarity]

What do the churches do these days except teach husbands to be weaklings who let their wives get away with anything?

[@Chey77700]

That could be true but if a man is married to a feminist he knows she'll use every legal avenue to destroy him so he's stuck if he asserts himself. Women who adhere to biblical patriarchy don't subscribe to such diabolical behavior. However, yes, men have become weak and pathetic BUT women know exactly what they need to do to gain sympathy and the upper hand "shall he ever get out of line" and tell her about herself. This is why people don't take abuse allegations from women seriously anymore. They got too comfortable using the law against the men in their lives and its backfired.

[@vamosajugarpelota]

No they aren't I know them all she is just so wicked she refuses to submit like Hosea.

[@prezoftexastab1232]

No, a lot of these women have personality disorders and are extremely manipulative. The problem with these women is that thry destroy their husbands lives as well as their childrren's

[@johnfreeman9766]

@@prezoftexastab1232 I had a grandmother just like you describe and a grandfather too weak to check her and shut her down. It was so bad I was astranged from them until adulthood because my parents wouldn't communicate with them. She tried it with me later in life and she got checked hard then she was fine. Sadly I don't think she died knowing Jesus however.

[@GodlessGubment]

Does this guy think he is actually "born again?" 🤣

[@prezoftexastab1232]

Glad the therapist was sensible. Host seems to "protest too much" about rape...seems suspect...