The Acolyte, episode 6 - a rambling review

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[@thefragrantwookiee]

Whilst I've enjoyed the show overall, I'm really sick of Sol's "I must finally tell you the whole truth... because it is time that you know the truth...but I hope nothing unexpected happens that prevents me from telling you the whole truth, which I'm determined to tell you... really, really soon..." It's the worst kind of padding (well, 2nd worst; after that episode of Kenobi where Obi-Wan just walks up and down a brown corridor to a closed door for half an hour). This feels like another example of a Disney+ series which they originally wanted to make a movie out of but now have to pad it to a TV show's run time.

[@TheDCbiz]

I do wonder if this is a side effect of Bob Chapek the former CEO at Disney. During 2020 he restructured the company to have a Disney plus advisor who would dictate which projects would be for Disney Plus and which ones wouldn't. No longer was it the job of Kathleen, Fiegie, pixar and disney animation CEO, etc. and this lasted until I think early 2023? This has really harmed Pixar with films like Inside Out supposed to be for theaters but then turned to a Disney plus exclusive instead. That was early 2022.

[@kirkdarling4120]

Yes, that's what they're doing, and they think that is "mystery." That's not mystery, that's a girl's camp counselor telling a ghost story over a campfire.

[@ghlmk5931]

I feel your frustration. At this point, I’m finishing the show only because it has 2 episodes left. With Andor, I was about to quit after the first few eps because it was all set up. But in the end it was totally worth it. With Acolyte, I feel this was a waste of my time. I’ve always wanted the dichotomy of the Force further explored, because the light and dark sides philosophy never satisfied me, especially after the prequels came out and laid out that the Jedi have no attachments whatsoever, no passion. That was a shock to me, maybe because I used to read the extended universe novels and that wasn’t the case. So I found the black/white Force hard to believe, I kept thinking, “where’s the gray”. I thought this show was going to explore that further, so therein lies my disappointment. Clone Wars and Rebels, two supposedly kiddie shows, did a better job than Acolyte in taking the Jedi to task, especially the latter seasons of Clone Wars, through the young Ahsoka’s disillusionment and decision to leave the Order. Granted, they had more episodes, and therein lies one of the problems, as you well stated.

[@ThatGuy-jj3kz]

It's a shame how the Acolyte is stumbling into the same problems D+ keep falling into. You would think after 4 to 5 years, the D+ shows would have new problems instead of the same pacing, storytelling, and characterization issues.

[@saphcal]

Qimir i think is the name he went by, but he said its fake name. The show just calls him "The Stranger".

[@michellemoore7829]

I'm of the opinion the moment that you explore the droid issue in depth, you kind of just hurt the fun of the franchise. It's like exploring the the inherently authoritarian nature of the superhero genre, as soon as you go there, the story no longer is a fun adventure, but a dark deconstructionist satire, which explains the contrast of something like watchman to the main dc stories. The droid question would be better served by an adjacent science fiction story not main universe Star Wars. I liken it to breaking the toy.

[@BreakRoomofGeeks]

I'm going to partially agree. I feel like having side content like these shows, separate from the films everybody goes to, is the perfect place to explore that. To run with your superhero comparison, I'd say that would absolutely be a problem if you explore that in say a Justice League book. Not so much if you do it in Constantine, or Ambush Bug, or other smaller books. This is part of why Andor explores some of the ideas of The Last Jedi so much better than that film did: because a mainline entry was the wrong place to try and do it.

[@LDrosophila]

It's also just lazy writing a factory reset? Come on!

[@TheDCbiz]

I disagree. The longer star wars goes on the more the issue of droid autonomy presents the Republic, rebels, and Jedi as villians. It kinda needs an answer if we keep presenting them as heroes. And I disagree with the authoritarian nature of the super hero genre. Exploring that has helped superhero genre have more story possibilities like the civil war comics or civil war film or bvs or the dark Knight returns etc.

[@michellemoore7829]

@@TheDCbiz I think deconstructionalist stories about the jedi, droids, and superheroes are worth telling, my issue is one of the basic parts of Star Wars as a whole is cute robot sidekicks everywhere that help the heroes, you deconstruct that aspect of the universe you might as well stop telling star wars stories, because you can't justify continuing this major part of star wars and star wars without cute robot side kicks really doesn't feel like star wars. Hence breaking the toy.

[@TheDCbiz]

@@michellemoore7829 I understand that but imo the toy is already broken. A problem I have with the EU and prequels and especially Disney sequels is the Jedi were broken. In an effort to make the Jedi more relatable and explore morally grey stories, the Jedi went from good to kinda villainous. This kinda breaks the point of them in the OT. Good vs bad, simple fairy tale was the OT. But star wars stopped being a fairy tale decades ago and has explored morally grey of the rebels, of the Jedi, even of Luke Skywalker. So when the morally great aspects of everyone and everything is explored, avoiding the implications of the droids is what actually breaks the toy. We need an answer as to what's going on with them like explore how they gain rights and our "heroes" learn to respect them otherwise it seems like our "heroes" just keep assuming droids and no one cares or really mentions it. It's like seeing but never addressing George Washington's slaves despite exploring the morally grey of the American revolution. Just ignoring the slaves that we clearly see is what breaks the toy imo

[@CodeAndGin]

The only star wars property that ive found even kinda addressed the droid thing is KOTOR 2. In that, they make a point of saying droids begin acting erratic and outside of programmed parameters the longer they go without a memory wipe - and the main playable droid characters refuse to be wiped. I interpreted it as implying that the longer they have an unbroken stream of memories, the more they act as independent beings. KOTOR 2 is the closest the franchise has ever gotten to exploring the questions about the world that I have, and i find it a shame that it kinda falls apart at the end because of rushed development

[@KnightRaymund]

"Is it the fault of the man that killed her?" - ...YES! wtf?

[@tuylosotroslgbt9414]

In Mexico we have a saying, it's not only guilty he who kills the cow, but also he who pulled her leg, which means its not only Qimir's fault but also Sol's fault.

[@TheDCbiz]

Is it? If you as a warrior space monk send a child monk with a weapon to go fight someone who is allegedly killing warrior space monks, at what point does the adult warrior space monks take the blame? It's like a police detective taking their child with them to investigate a serial killer who is killing cops. Maybe don't bring a child to that in that case?

[@OziJo1]

It’s like a season of overlong trailers that lay out the story points but provide no substance. After every episode I’m left waiting for more and not in a good way. Still I am enjoying the expanded universe ideas; Manny Jacinto & Lee Jung-jae’s performances; the exploration of lightsaber fighting and other weapons; and the little droid (oh I’m with you on that).

[@Tuaron]

Definitely hitting on a lot of my feelings about this episode, even if you seem a bit more angry/frustrated (maybe my expectations/hopes were lower - as you suggested in a recent vid, cynicism might have helped). There have been some glimpses of interesting ideas and things they could have (really should've) explored further, and this episode really needed to do that because it seems we're out of time to do so - next week's unlikely to do that (as mentioned) due to the likely "Rashomon" episode to explain the secret, plus a little more to set up the action of the finale (I'm expecting something akin to the penultimate episode of WandaVision, really). I think we would've been better served by cutting Vernestra and the other Jedi down to maybe 1 or 2 short scenes (at most), maybe just a shortened version of them finding the dead Jedi and Vernestra responding, while Bazil (or whatever his name is) also could've been cut down to bare minimum, at most. The episode should have focused on what the title suggested, contrasting the philosophies/styles of the Jedi and the "Sith" as they deal with the other twin (I would've liked Sol to realize it was Mae early on and just not reveal that to her, saying things to try to "redeem her" before a proper confrontation, which could end the same way it did in this episode) - we especially needed to see both twins acknowledge and feel a pull to the other philosophy, considering how it fits with their beliefs and feelings, questioning whether their prior beliefs were right, etc., but we got too little of that. The only way this episode even somewhat works as it is (without delving deeper) is if this show is actually planning a season 2, but that seems like a poor move, as it seems like there's too little substance there for more than a couple more episodes (especially based on where we are in the plot) and the show's squandered much of the good reception/faith it had. All that said, I think there were a few good moments, particularly Master Sol's initial distress call and his moment a bit later, where he vents some of his anger/frustration/grief. Solid acting, and really helps sell some of the depth of the character, who has been something of an MVP on this show even if he hasn't been given the best to work with. Qimir (is that his real name?) was solid, just didn't get enough this episode to do what should've been done. I like that he didn't abandon the helmet, and that it plays a role. I'm in for the rest of this season (which is hopefully the rest of the show), but I am disappointed. That opening fight scene showed so much promise, and there's been glimpses of great ideas. Hard to believe that one (or more?) person behind Russian Doll delivered this, was hoping for better.

[@tuylosotroslgbt9414]

They just need a script doctor and new writers in the writers room.

[@TheDCbiz]

Would that help tho? Imo the premise of the show is the problem not the writing. A prequel show to the 3 prequel films to a trilogy of a fairy tale imo is just running out of gas. Even if the best writers ever worked on the show, what could they do with this premise? Anything they do will upset some fans. Because of having to fit in with the lore or by discarding aspects of the EU/Legends or having to not effect the timeline of what comes after etc. a prequel to a prequel imo is a recipe for disaster.

[@WhiteWolf496]

I really liked this episode honestly. But I do think it needed a longer season and longer episodes to fully realise the ideas its trying to explore.

[@TheDCbiz]

What did you like most in this EP?

[@WhiteWolf496]

@TheDCbiz I enjoyed finally seeing the characters interact in like a more human way as opposed to we need to have a short convo and move on for plot. I especially enjoyed the scenes with Osha and Qimir. (I know that is just an alias but it's easier than saying "The Stranger" every time) Seeing him manipulate Osha by seeming to be perfectly reasonable and needling her insecurities pushing her to use those negative emotions. I thought all that was very well done. And qimir pointing out that the way the jedi see the way one connects with the force as something that fades over time when in reality you can just use those more negative emotions which come more easily, is an interesting real world parallel of how we need to practice being mindful of everything and strive to do good while it's easy to just snap and get angry etc. Furthered by the idea of the mask essentially being a sensory deprivation chamber it's basically like an echo chamber for in a sith's case, all of that rage and fear and passion. I just found it really interesting. And as for the Mae and Sol side of things. I liked that we actually get to see how Sol has a moment to grieve his Padawan and colleagues. And he is, like Osha, now struggling with HIS inner darkness and guilt over what happened on Brendok in a much more full on way than before, hence the end of the episode where he's about to tell Mae what happened. And its interesting to me how Osha is with Qimir who could hurt her, but he doesn't want to, but she still feels relatively safe. While Mae is with Sol who doesn't want to hurt her, but could and she feels uneasy around him. And the parallels between them in the episode, Mae pretending to be Osha and Sol essentially pretending to be a better jedi than he is. They're both wearing these "masks" while Osha and Qimir are so open with their true identities around each other. And back to Osha and Qimir because there's more going on there. I liked how when Qimir suggested she try on his mask she didn't trust him and he says nor should you, but you need to learn to trust yourself. Planting those seeds of manipulation even deeper which then sprout when she makes the choice to put it on at the end of the episode, trusting herself but in my mind also beginning her path to the dark side. Also some have theorised that Vernestra could have been Qimir's master as a Jedi, and the scar is from the lightsaber whip as seen in the episode (would make sense as to why they showed it.) And I think there's weight to that claim. And I also feel like Qimir is using the dark side to hide his true age/appearance hence how he could be a jedi "a long time ago" Despite all this, I still think that the show suffers serious pacing and structural issues. I'm not a huge fan overall, I think it's fine. But idk this episode really hooked me. I could go on about all the issues I do have with the show but they mostly come down to the mystery not being really implemented all that well and the pacing and structure not giving time to breathe and give characters the characterisation they deserved and needed. And this episode for me helped with that but it's very odd for episode 6 of 8.

[@TheDCbiz]

@@WhiteWolf496 thank you for sharing what you do like about the show, I appreciate it. How do you feel the show could have been better so far this season?

[@WhiteWolf496]

​@TheDCbiz as mentioned, the pacing and structure is I feel the biggest problem. There simply hasn't been enough time to properly establish the characters. I think that more and longer episodes would have helped flesh this out. I also think that it could have been interesting to see an in between timeline, like say when Osha is training as a Jedi and if we got to see hints of what happened on Brendok through how Indara, Torbin, Sol and Kelnacca dealt with their actions between when it took place and when we see where they ended up in the show. And maybe see bits of what Mae got up to in the time between as well.

[@TheDCbiz]

@@WhiteWolf496 do you feel the problem is EP length or total # of EPS effecting the storytelling?

[@jeffharris7668]

I think Darth Mendoza should have fought with Osha. That's a classic Sith move to draw out both her power and her passion, and it would have made for a far more entertaining episode. It could have been intercut with the tension of whether Sol will realize what's happened, too.

[@whats-his-face-whats-his-c8299]

I understand what your saying however the sith are all about abusing power. Its never about passion other than the passion to dominate others. The Sith as a philosophy is all about utter selfishness. They may tell you they are just passionate and they may tell you they just want to live how they wish but they only tell you this so you feel sympathy for them and thats when they seek to assert themselves over you forever more.

[@TheDCbiz]

Or is that just "from a certain point of view"?

[@Immudelki]

What an introduction XDD

[@sfitzmd]

I was thinking about it and it feels like if this whole series took place in the evil forest it would be so much better. Confining the characters together to see them in action. I mean with the droid thing... We already have pondering nephew murder Luke so i dont think addressing his complicity in the droid problem is a big stretch.

[@Rmlohner]

Headland also revealed this week that the show was designed as a standalone season, with the option for more if the audience was there, so they don't even have the excuse Ahsoka had that this isn't supposed to be the whole story. On the plus side, it seems the audience definitely is there, with the word that it has the second highest viewing numbers of any Star Wars show.

[@WhiteWolf496]

About the droids thing there was an episode of the mandalorian in season 3 that lowkey said that the droids, at least the ones involved in that story enjoyed being slaves... it was real weird... and also jack black was there.

[@BreakRoomofGeeks]

Wow... am I glad I bailed on that show years ago.

[@tuylosotroslgbt9414]

On top of that Lizzo was there, not a good look now. But at least we had Dr. Brown in Star Wars now.

[@suezcontours6653]

@@BreakRoomofGeeks The Western population is in sharp decline, same as South Korea and Japan. White nerds not gaging why Disney is willing to lose money targeting the BLACK FEMALE demographic is beyond me - they have the MOST babies out of any demographic. I live in South Africa, same place Amandla Stenberg, and white people here get ignored - which is the worst thing in their eyes. Africans have their own culture, sub groups and tv shows in their own language. They do NOT care for Afrikaaners who keep trying to be relevant. My prediction is that white demographic is going to continue to fall in USA while more POC grow with immigrants. But the West wants control over Africa (since China came with BRICS) above everything so they make these TV shows trying to figure out the right formula.

[@WhiteWolf496]

@BreakRoomofGeeks it's got its moments but it's just not all that interesting to me. The more I think about it the more it's like jon favreau put some plot ideas into an AI script generator and that's how the show is written. He's not a good writer but oh well. Star Wars can and always has been hit or miss for me. Thankfully less misses than for most. I'd say but yeah.

[@kirkdarling4120]

@@suezcontours6653 Black females aren't particularly superhero or science fiction fans, though. And demographically, it would be centuries before there are enough black females (even if they were all converted to science fiction fans) to overcome the number of white male science fiction fans. So, there is no profit motive involved, because a profit-motivated American company doesn't put up with more than a fiscal quarter of losses. This is not about profit, this is about ideology, and ideologists are willing to run a company (or a country) into the ground for the sake of their ideology.

[@superkid801]

You make valid points. To really explore the philosophy of the Sith is interesting and would be fascinating to explore more. I understand your frustrations with it. It was fine for me. Be interested to see where this is leading us towards

[@GarrettCRW]

On the Droid discussion, the novelization of The Empire Strikes Back adds fuel to the fire because the line in the movie where R2 asks Luke if he wants him to take over control of his X-Wing after declaring that he’s headed to Dagobah becomes A Thing that makes things quite disturbing, but it even makes how the Dinobots are treated in the original Transformers cartoon an issue, too. (For those not aware, the writer of the ESB novelization, Donald F. Glut, wrote the majority of The Dinobots’ appearances in the first two seasons, and they are equally treated as second-class Transformers in many respects.)

[@cjayconrod]

You nailed it. I want to like this show. It sets up so many interesting ideas and concepts worth exploring, but has done NOTHING with them, and I'm not trusting Disney to delve into them so boldly and openly in the next two episodes.

[@Starbush69]

The droid scene bothered me too, especially considering how droids are treated like second class citizens in this universe. It would be nice to have a show about droids rebelling against their oppressors, but Disney would find a way to water it down somehow. Unless they gave full control to the same creative team behind Andor, which would help. Now about this episode as a whole, eh. It felt like going back to bog standard stuff with hints of good ideas barely explored. Although a show about an undercover Sith making mocktails sounds like a much better show. I’d so watch it. 😂

[@Tuaron]

I honestly thought it was just going to be a threat that would be followed by Pip "complying", not Mae just immediately doing it after suggesting it.

[@DanTheElevator]

I specifically waited for this review to decide if I would keep watching the show because I knew you’d call it out if they went back to their bullshit after the last episode (and frankly I don’t think even the last episode was as good as most people do). Thank you for being honest about this show’s shortcomings so I can save myself the ~90 minutes of my life I’d have wasted watching the final three episodes. I am beyond disappointed that they set up this show with the promise of deconstructing the myth of the Jedi and have remained so surface level and turned away from depth every chance they had to turn into it. It’s bad storytelling, it just is. It does a disservice to the ideas that are buried within it, and the whole thing feels like it was shot to match a Wikipedia summary and not the actual hard work of artists creating a story for an emotional impact. It feels even more insulting when you consider that they had Andor as a model to draw from, and Mandalorian/Boba Fett as a model to move away from. No lessons were learned.

[@bobmathis-friedman6742]

I've always had some issues regarding the dichotomies involved in the treatment of droids (I've had similar problems with the Super-Pets of the DC Universe, especially pre-Crisis).

[@Ramipon]

lol disney ain brave enough to do a butlerian jihad story

[@tristanmilner9511]

"I lose track of the numbers." That's perfectly normal when it comes to Star Wars. The franchise that goes 4-6, 1-3, 7-9, with some one shots mixed in between. And that's just the movies.

[@TheDCbiz]

It's because originally it was just supposed to be star wars, empire strikes back, and return of the Jedi. Or maybe just star wars. Then they got numbered 4,5,6 retroactively to make way of the retconned phantom menace or EP 1, attack of the clones/ep2, and revenge of the sith aka EP 3

[@tristanmilner9511]

@@TheDCbiz I think they got numbered on home release.

[@TheDCbiz]

@@tristanmilner9511 i thought they got numbered on theatre/cinema re-release in 1981?

[@highfive7689]

The 8 to 10 episode TV season has become the norm in the industry. It's all rushed. I hate it. All the old TV series up to the mid 2000s were up to twenty or even more episodes. When used right, it allowed you to develop characters. Define and refine them, and answer questions in a pace that allowed to absorb details. Again everything is rushed. All the Jedi characters in this series felt so interesting. I wanted to know more about the Master Sol. The padawan, Jecki Lon, was fascinating, and Jecki Lon out shown Osha (the acting leaves a lot to be desired). Even exploring Jedi Yord Fandar hidden angers could have been interesting. Even the witches that Osha came from could have provided some much interesting plot spice. All these interesting people you eliminated. Most series kill off unnamed characters and then shelve the named ones to be used later for another season. It's becoming disappointing.

[@victoriajankowski1197]

I feel like they are counting on interest of the larger fandom to float us instead of actually creating an actually interesting show, and its not working. Assuming this somehow manages to tie itself into the larger lore it really could have been a blog post or an Easter egg screen shot of some kids history reading 100 years later in another show.... They have about 1 hour of plot maybe thus far, the use of cliff hangers is more distracting than interesting, you'd have to be invested in the characters or story first. I feel like an interview at this point could go something like this 'So why do you think your show is cool?' 'Cause its Starwars!' 'Yes but what's actually interesting about it?' 'It's StarWars!' ........confused silence

[@JAM92]

Ok this is gonna seem kinda random, but when you did the American national anthem at the start, what's the noise you made with your mouth to do it called? Coz it wasn't a hum so what's it called?

[@LDrosophila]

A trumpet? 🎺

[@JAM92]

@@LDrosophila yeah that's probably it, thanks

[@B__C__]

But... _Something, something, dark-side._

[@JiixBooks]

Listen I’ll be honest i enjoyed the episode sm bc i mainly turned my brain off and was just there for the ship stuff 🙂‍↕️

[@quickhands7008]

Unfortunately I think this is the sort of show that thinks it’s deep but ultimately has little to nothing to say, which is a let down

[@BreakRoomofGeeks]

I'm not sure it thinks it's deep. But it does seem to think that gesturing at cool ideas is sufficient for this property. Less pretension and more "slightly more than minimum is enough, right?"

[@quickhands7008]

@@BreakRoomofGeeks Totally agree, it doesn’t come off pretentious. I was real excited for a cleanish-slate era of Star Wars with a focus on the sith and it’s for sure a let down that we haven’t seen much if anything new on that front. Episode 3 actually had me believing that the sith/non sith but still somewhat darksidey people in this show weren’t just gonna be “anger and power good” like always but

[@davidgipe997]

I do agree this show brings up all kinds of neat things, but doesn't explore them. Fir instance the view if the Firce as Thread. It like shows are now afraid of notable or multiple plot progress in a single episode. When you do that, you can also have time for introspection, more action, etc to suit different pacings. *Jedi thoughts*: I think sometimes i have difficulty not bringing in my EU\Legends knowledge as Lukes Jedi did have knowledge exchange programs. So when i hear about the Jedi actively stopping any other Force sect i keep thinking "What are 'you' talking about?". Now in this series i can see the implication. Though i do not agree with it.

[@TheDCbiz]

To be fair the story of "star wars" is kinda out of gas. And any changes or "progression" the show makes some fans of the lore get super upset

[@davidgipe997]

@@TheDCbiz Thank you for the response. I can certainly see that myself. As a fan I don't want it to "die", and I feel that there is room for progression. However I (and here where this can breakdown by interpretation) feel that there needs to be a lore advisor, not lore lawyer, in the process to allow for not just continuity, but *new* or furthering ideas based on the 'wider lore'. To me the EU\Legends if they can't (for some reason) run in parallel then use it to enhance and not degenerate characters, story, the 'universe'. Note, though I do not consider falls and tragedy as degenerative as it can be done with feeling and respect to the character original or legacy.

[@TheDCbiz]

@@davidgipe997 I agree with you. But I kinda also disagree. I agree that because of how unique star wars is a franchise and the EU/Legends vs canon, it'd benefit to re-organize a lore advisor for lucasfilm. The lore of star wars since 1999 with phantom menace has been getting more complicated and contradictory. Lucas did have a whole group of lore advisors to make sense of stuff other than the prequel film and decide what was or wasn't lore and which levels of lore it was but it has still gotten out of hand imo. Having some kind of re-organization to get fans on board with might help a lot. Right now Disney takes what they want and leaves what they don't want but this causes some fans to be confused and get upset. Like the cortosis in this series is supposed to be super rare in EU/Legends but somehow it's common on the planet they are on in the show which then upsets some fans as to where it's been this whole time etc. But imo star wars kinda needs to just move away from the current lore and start new. Imo just 30+years after the events of rise of Skywalker or longer and just start new. It's hard tho because do fans want to support new or just support what they've already seen. Not a full reboot but just move on long enough to get fans all on the same page again. This constant prequel or stories in-between the films we've seen imo is only upsetting and dividing fans. From fans of lore to fans like Vera who just kinda become disappointed since the shows aren't having much stakes etc. Imo the lore of star wars is suffocating it in some ways. All this lore also doesn't make new fans easily join like younger generations since the lore is contradictory.

[@R.senals_Arsenal]

This series is one I don't mind the double drop of episodes to start with because the first 2 were so boring. If you'd spread that out they'd've lost more viewers. You need a camera with cord option. js I wish Qimir had talked more about Freedom over anger too, that is trite by now. Also, guy killed her friends, no reaction, that was a bit off. If she's gonna rage that seems like a good trigger that wasn't pulled.

[@thebitterfig9903]

I wish I liked The Acolyte. The cast was such a great place to start. I have a different thought on length, tho. Maybe instead of more episodes, it needed fewer. I'm thinking back to when two-part mini-series were a big thing on TV, where over two nights they'd air one "two hour" (that is, 90 minute) episode per night. The fact that these Disney+ projects are called "series" lets showrunners think there's enough room to tell a long story when there isn't. Folks need to get to the point. Having a format where the structure forces folks to condense the story might pay off in the long run.

[@azean84]

You're pretty much echoing how I've been feeling about the show, I want to like it bit the story and characterisation is so thin I'm finding it hard to care about anything that's going on and I feel I'm just being teased with what happened 16 years ago and how Qimir fits into it all. Also this is getting very annoying at this point with Sol; i'll tell you when we get back to the ship. I'll tell yo..*stun bolt*. I must tell you *power up* or *power down* - Oh come on!

[@meander112]

Engagement for the engagement god!

[@alfje5492]

It's too long for a movie and too short for a series, which is surprising as the showrunner has made a successful series before! Like Doctor Who, this series needs more than 8 episodes and some more (better?) writers to sort out the clunky dialogue. I'm watching it because I'm an old SW fan and I like the idea of stories set outside the Skywalker bubble, but it's in danger of becoming the Secret Invasion of SW: a lot of potential, some good ideas, but ultimately a waste of time. Let's hope it sticks the landing and lessons can be learned.

[@Coolcoolcooldude]

I feel like the Droids have been depicted more than just slaves. Like BB8's relationship to Poe and Finn. Cassian seemed sad when K2SO sacrificed himself in Rogue One. And even in the original trilogy. Luke considers R2 as a friend by the end of a New Hope when the Rebellion suggested using a different droid, but Luke refuses.

[@BreakRoomofGeeks]

So... your argument is that "some of these beings whose lives are demonstrably more disposable by both the good guys and the villains are treated well by some of the people around them, so that makes it all ok"?

[@Ramipon]

So that makes it all ok?🤐

[@deee71194]

R2 and 3po were literally kidnapped then purchased to work on the moisture farm

[@deee71194]

Weren’t R2 and threepio literally purchased to work on the moisture farm tho

[@Coolcoolcooldude]

@deee71194 To me, I have interpreted the Droids like pets, service animals, or other domesticated animals like horses or cows. But maybe I have been interpreting wrong all these years. But if you want a movie that talks about robots with free thinking minds. I highly suggest the Creator. That is an incredible film.

[@TheDCbiz]

I think this is suffering from being a star wars show. Star wara was a simple fairy tale. Lucas and other have tried picking the OT which was a fairy tale, to death. The sith are the bad guys for the same reason the big bad wolf is in little red riding hood. Because that's the simplicitic nature of that fairy tale. Imagine 9 films, 10 shows, and books/comics/games/etc. for 50 years all exploring red riding hood. Its out if gas. No more prequels. Star wars needs to move on and be 30+years from rise of Skywalker and start anew. A prequel show to prequel films to 3 OT films nearly within 50 years about red riding hood is just scraping bottom of the barrel.

[@BowievMercury]

Yeah sigh - if this show was *interesting* I'd be able to hold my nose a bit more over how much I dislike its central conceit - how this came from someone that worked on the wondeful, insightful, Russian Doll, with its themes of intergenerational trauma, and what living through a genocide does to a family, I don't know. As it stands - I'm just constantly mentally going, right you want me to agree with your conceit that the jedi are space cops, and acab, so the jedi... are... (who would *never* behave that way... given the *only* group we see them taking issue are the sith, not the nightsisters, yunno witchy darksiders they're happy to live and let live alongside, not the bardottens, who in-universe keep incorrectly accusing the jedi of being pure evil very very loudly, not the whills who took over jedha, no only the sith... Who oh yeah... We see winning by genociding all of the jedi out of existence...) Whilst you *keep* the original long-established worldbuilding introduced by other, better, writers, that the Sith philisophy remains quite literally a paraphrased sci-fied up remix of actual nazi idealogy?! So their freedom is the freedom to murder everyone else?! Nah. No thank you. If you're going to ignore that the prequels are centred around the jedi because they're the least powerful group in the room in any given situation, and Lucas liked doing that with the droids the first go round so much he did it again, because all the older fans decided the only way the prequels could be 'good' was if the jedi were the villains of their own genocide actually, completely ignoring the content of the films in the process? Well. Alas, love Star Wars, and this writer's other work as I have, I'm going to regretfully ignore this show.

[@patd25]

First!

[@chaserseven2886]

Second