The Aero Wars

Some might think that NASCAR is as far removed from the showroom floor as they've ever been, but today we revisit '69 and '70; when the sport was more split from "stock" than ever before.
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Credits: pastebin.com/dN8S5VdL
#nascar #racing

[@emdotrod]

More road courses means today's NASCAR cars to become aerodynamically better than it was few years ago. Surely the Dark Horse is just the beginning.

[@ausernameidk]

Are V8 supercars and nascar swapping places? They get road courses and SVJ, we loose all local manufacturing in exchange for yank tanks.

[@drumnbasssakuga9352]

@@ausernameidk Not to mention that Gen 3 Supercars all have identical bodies, the body is just cleverly shaped to look like a Camaro or Mustang depending how you paint it.

[@ArchAangel21]

Nooooooo let them slide around

[@LorikQuinn]

Downforce sucks, let them slide around

[@musewolfman]

​@@LorikQuinnI want to watch a race, not a string of caution laps with one or two fast laps in between.

[@AlexE5250]

As a wise man once said: "The funny thing about nascar is that--if you watch long enough--everything always comes full circle"

[@AlexE5250]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/rWHHkHSLdq2Jm9Esi=0PVR-QBx8yY9ZYds

[@nylonsheep6520]

God I love that video I get goosebumps jist thinking about that ending

[@sunkiimustdie]

​@@nylonsheep6520what video is it

[@nylonsheep6520]

@@sunkiimustdie TALLADEGA by EMPLemon

[@Jtngetabettername]

@@sunkiimustdie EmpLemon's Talladega one I guess

[@heroicsultan7311]

Fun fact: in 1997, when Ford was phasing out the Thunderbird, Ford Motor Company created a mock-up of the ‘98 Taurus with an over pronounced body kit, to convince NASCAR that this was what the upcoming Taurus was going to look like on the road, as a clever way to make the ‘98 Taurus stock car more aerodynamic.

[@dontask8979]

Stapleton42 did a video on this. It wasn't Ford. The race shop it was delivered to modify it before Nascar got to the shop to make templates. Nascar approved a modified body and didn't even know it. The back of the car was raised 4"

[@xavierjuno4572]

​@@dontask8979well that's one way to get around the rules I guess

[@ausernameidk]

If they wanted an aerodynamic ford, shouldda used the AU falcon forte. That sexy beast would have driven so fast the tarmac would melt.

[@Jhihmoac]

heroicsultan7311 - You're also forgetting another NASCAR mandate that got overlooked back in the 90s... Until then, weren't all racing body styles _supposed_ to be based on production _COUPES?_ Since when had a Taurus ever _been_ one? I sure don't ever remember seeing one, and I _owned_ a Taurus once!

[@Ryzard]

I was autistically obsessed with airplanes and physics as a kid. Created an unfairly dominant car, with the one wheel raise, aero design, weight placement, graphite, etc. Looking back, I feel kinda bad but kinda proud about it.

[@TheAlison1456]

yeap it was unfair you should've done nothing and lost

[@sepg5084]

​@@TheAlison1456k

[@TotoDG]

Hey, if you ain't cheatin', you ain't winnin'!

[@terrylessmann2274]

Love the shot of Pearson holding a heater out the window as they roll off pit road.

[@FreddieMercurysMercury]

Wait when lmao

[@01Zipang]

Superbird was developed mainly due to the Charger Daytona was not as well performing at short tracks and road courses. Most teams opting to run the original Chargers for those events. The superbird moved the wing up a few inches, along with a few minor alterations to make the car perform better at these tracks.

[@eddy2121]

Standard Roadrunner was used on short tracks.

[@grahamcrackergaming1540]

I think something that often gets forgotten in the first aero war is when aero cars were banned. People think aero cars were banned after 1970. Not entirely. Aero cars weren’t band in NASCAR til 1972. For 1971 Bill put a rule in place for anyone running an aero car that they’d have to run a maximum engine size 305 cubic inches or 5.0L thinking it’d stop drivers and teams and manufacturers from running and making any aero cars since they wouldn’t be able to keep up with the big 500-600 hp 7.0L 426 & 427s everyone else was running. But the 1971 Daytona 500 NASCAR put a restriction on the engines for that year’s 500 to bring the racing closer. *Wait where have I heard this story before?* Speeds from 1970 being run at 199mph top were down to 175-180mph in 1971. But any car running a small block engine weren’t given the restriction. So Mario Rossi entered a Daytona with a 340 Magnum boring it to a 305 block to give the Daytona one last hurrah. With Dick Brooks at the wheel, the small block Daytona was able to keep up with the other cars and even be in threat of the lead. Though David Pearson I think spun him out putting him out of contention for the win. But was still able to mount back to a 7th place finish. I find it fascinating when a team find loopholes in the rules and take a car that shouldn’t be competitive, and it goes to do great things. My favorite being the Dauer Porsche 962 LM that took an old Group C prototype and exploited it to the GT1 rules to dodge the nerfs the dusted off Group C cars were given and won the 1994 24 hours of Le Mans.

[@youraverageguy7842]

My pinewood derby car got 9th in the regional town competition or whatever it was a couple of towns Boy Scout pinewoods and it was a wooden Richard Petty 43 car. There was at least 100 too. So glad you started with this. Really brought that memory back.

[@Paddyboro]

Came for the content, stayed for the 15 year grudge 😂.

[@Kablooey81]

" And to the kid that beat me that day over 15 years ago, fuk u. " - EllyProductions49, 2023

[@HenryDaNinth]

That person who came in 1st? They can get fucked. Race was rigged to not let our boy win

[@atpyro7920]

when i heard that anecdote about pinewood derbies i immediately flashed back to the two first place trophies i have in my old room from being a cub scout. The car i made for the first win was so disgustingly good that i just entered it again the second year with a troll car i made as a bit of a meme, only for the troll car to just barely beat that car for first. It's one of the most bizzare things i have a memory of, but i like it.

[@ROWDYBatrulha]

AERODYMANICS BABY

[@justcallmeBIG_L]

I saw the thumbnail to this vid and thought bro who tf gave the king F-18 wings 😂

[@NoahsHair69]

Reminded me of that scene from Cars where McQueen was a F-16 😂

[@BDSFormula1]

best scene bro

[@liamoneal7643]

f16 wings not 18

[@bobcatracer]

I think its worth mentioning that Chrysler pulled engineers from its missile division to design this car. And the drivers were told to not exceed 190 in testing, because ford had spy planes in the air at the track.

[@asymsolutions]

Fake news. Ford did have "spys" but they were just freelance journalists they offered money to. There was no planes, just the offer of paying more than any news group could to not publish "spy shots". Also chrystler didnt pull anyone from their missile division. Their missile division was shutting down and the engineers were getting laid off. They didnt prioritize nascar and spend extra money. They had engineers who were trying to save their jobs/pensions and a head who was about to get the axe if he didnt come up with a marketing solution for said hurting company. Everything else is just boomer lore.

[@jadonherr6469]

Everyone bashes on the COT but those were PACKED with safety features.

[@Dat-Mudkip]

I've always had a soft spot for the COT. It did help once they ditched the wing and revised the front splitter.

[@jaymiller126]

The beginning talking about your second place ribbon and the kid that beat you killed me 😂😂😂

[@musewolfman]

Should mention that in 1971, one team ran a 305ci Daytona, at the Daytona 500, and had no problems keeping up with the big blocks, even when they were drafting and he was hung out to dry. Despite a crash that damaged the side of the car and spun him out, forcing a pit stop, he still came in 7th place overall.

[@IrishmanGFS]

Big Bill did know best. Except when it came to safety. Also except when it comes to his drivers daring to run non-nascar races

[@DuncanMcCarthy]

Your opening analogy with Pinewood Derby Racing gave me good and bad flashbacks to Cub Scouts (3x Den Camp from Bear - Web 2, but no Pack Trophies)

[@DavidCormier-er7em]

I have been around racing a very long time. My first cup race I attended was the 79 Daytona 500. And I was at the 93 Talladega DieHard 500 when Jimmy Horton left the track and Neil Bonnet tore down the fence in front of me. A lady beside me had to be removed by paramedics I think she had a heart attack those are my claim to fame of NASCAR races attendant. been around racing all my life. Made a living in the Aerospace industry so I do understand aerodynamics. I am very old but those days were the best and I know everyone who's old says their days were the best. But they were the most enjoyable for me. I really enjoyed this video it was well done and really explained what was going on at the time very well. Thanks I did enjoy this.

[@paulday5722]

Buddy Baker's 200 mph lap was at Talladega not Atlanta. Other than that, excellent video. A great one for any new fan to watch.

[@SolamenteVees]

The Superbird and Daytona were actually very different cars; They didn't share a single piece of sheet metal and nothing was interchangeable between them.

[@ComfortsSpecter]

Eh That’s Unbelievable

[@SAVikingSA]

@@ComfortsSpecter the wings are drastically different, if you see them side by side

[@sherqyanstromain9580]

Which is crazy given they're under the same company

[@ComfortsSpecter]

@@SAVikingSA Every Part Absurd

[@SAVikingSA]

@@ComfortsSpecter as far as the body panels go, it's true. Naturally they shared Chrysler mechanical parts.

[@KyleB_RCR8]

Always on point. Great information given concisely and without prejudice. Thanks EP

[@SomeRand0mKid]

It’s a nice day when Elly Mrbeast and Mroots F1 22 all post on the same day. Keep it up!

[@alexfire53-ze7px]

I think with this next gen (if nascar play it right) make nascar popular again.

[@byransaputo2666]

Laughed my ass off at the thumbnail for a couple seconds.

[@Goober_80]

Kachow

[@plisskenationbackfromthede3657]

Im still mad that i lost my last pinewood derby in 95 lol. Had fast time all night and won all my heats. Had it in the bag my car was smoking fast. Hit a bad track joint in the feature and jumped the car out of lane. So pissed lol. That was my DoT city chevrolet wedge car. My dad and i were kinda high tech about it lol. Lots of graphite, aerodynamics, and we used little adjustable set screws in the rear to get the weight exactly to the limit. We were like a 2 man nascar crew lol. His winston cup wedge was hella fast in the adults race too. They were pretty much identical besides the schemes. Meanwhile other kids were sending the uncut block with the wheels attached down the track 😂🤦‍♂️

[@calvinstraveldreams]

Great video. I think other noteworthy parts of NASCAR’s aero war include the introduction of asymmetry in cars meant for short and intermediate tracks in the 90s (and gradual increases in the level of asymmetry up to the notorious “Twisted Sister” cars of 2003-2007), running super soft rear springs on the plate tracks until NASCAR introduced its shock rule in 2000, the introduction of coil binding in 1997, the introduction of skew on the COT, etc.

[@lostinrabbithole12]

I didn't know how much I needed that thumbnail in my life

[@CapstoneTider]

Great content like this helps get me through the off-season. I appreciate it.

[@BuddyCorp]

I think it's cool you kept the apron for an entire year, great job buddy! Joking aside, another enjoyable video, and clearly a subject you're passionate about.

[@leftoverlegend6024]

Bullets per minute item shop ost? Didn't expect to hear that here lmao.

[@lukemccauley1480]

Your videos are getting better week on week, we can see the effort you’re putting in. Extremely entertained considering I’m a European who’s only watched a few Daytona’s 😄

[@floofles9473]

I kind of want to point this out, but there are subtle differences that make the Daytona faster than the Superbird, two main ones, in fact. For one, Plymouth designers hated how the Daytona looked and only agreed to do it if they could "make it look better." They reshaped the front nose cone, notably giving it a more pronounced sloping shape on either side of the centerline compared to the Daytona. They also placed the wing further up on the trunk and at a more pronounced angle, which made it around 3 to 4 miles per hour slower than the Daytona. There was also the fact that the fender scoops on both cars acted differently. The Daytonas actually had holes, Dodge claimed were for wheel clearance at high speed, but, in fact, they relieved air pressure under the car, helping it essentially stay glued to the track. The Superbird's scoops were just for show; they had solid metal under the scoops themselves. There was also a difference in what I think is the front splitter under the nose itself.

[@mrs6968]

Best video on these winged warriors that I've seen on youtube so far tyvm

[@crazymarkiplierfan]

You make fantastic videos man! Great channel!

[@Aidan_-_]

The quality of your videos is insane

[@wms3860]

I was king of the pinewood derby in Cub Scouts

[@darthhull85]

I was in the Royal Rangers (Church Boy Scouts) and since my deadbeat dad was a deadbeat I didn’t have anyone to help me with my car. So I raced it as the stock block of wood but painted in watercolor to look like Gordon’s Rainbow car. This would’ve been in 1997. I surprisingly won 2 races with that brick.

[@pp3k3jamail]

💥💥Good video it's not too many Nascar channels that talk about the cars, they normally talk about the driver or something else that happened but you don't see a lot of nascar channels on the cars like this one.

[@aloofdefloof]

going into the duels, the aero wars are definitely heating up again for this year lol

[@who_am_you]

I used to go to home depot all the time as a kid and I never got to do the pinewood derby races but I still made these little kids sets that they sold (we got them for free because I was friends with a worker somehow)

[@DavidCormier-er7em]

oh just to let you know I enjoyed it very much and I subscribed looking forward to new content

[@Jhihmoac]

By the late 80s, _ALL_ the NASCAR vehicles were drifting farther and farther away from looking like the stock production cars they were _supposed_ to at least slightly emulate! Nowadays, they're alike in name only... Street and track - Apples to Oranges... Original unibody styling versus identical tubular alloy frames and sheet metal components that _might_ look a little like their production counterparts! Why? Because a decal (or two) _TELLS_ you so! I so liked the old days better!

[@Navoii.]

I still have mine from a few years back. It was fun

[@F33DZxFUTR31]

The intro reminded me of this church camp i went to that was racing themed, so we need a week of racing related activities made a bunch of wood cars and shit😂

[@gregorygolden1296]

I don't think Buddy went 200mph at Atlanta, believe it was Talladega. We enjoy your videos, keep 'em coming.

[@gregorygolden1296]

You are Exactly right.

[@THEDonnyB]

The first aero war ended because of how much the cars deviated from their street faring counterparts. The second aero war ended because of how dangerous it had become.

[@syncthedingus1306]

Differences I see between the Charger Daytona and the Superbird: The front end of the Superbird is more rounded on the bottom than the Daytona, and the spoiler on the Superbird is further forward, and sloped at a shallower angle. The Superbird, in many ways, outclassed the Daytona because of these seemingly minute details. Though, I am biased because a member of my own family helped design the Superbird.

[@rouge4736]

GLAD THIS APPEARED IN MY RECOMMENDATION

[@urapooper362]

Didnt do pinewood derby but wood workshop class in school had us do CO2 canister drag racers as a project. We weren't kids but we barely understood aerodynamics. Lost my race in a photo finish.

[@RynoGunner24]

godamn that dark horse stang looks gorgeous

[@chloemackinly6762]

I went to a pinewood derby with my little brother once, some kid just put wheels on a block of wood and smoked everyone

[@ComfortsSpecter]

Vroom-vroom Planeboatcar Lovely Big Cars with Sleek Aerodynamics

[@FallingPicturesProductions]

The COT throwing out manufacture identity wasn't a sin, it was a blessing. 'Win on sunday sell on monday' has been dead since the late 90s, letting the manufacturers weaponize aero against each other kills racing quality, and it's no surprise that after the Gen 6 showed up in 2013, every year since (except two) has been a downgrade in racing quality from the year before, as each manufacturer rolls out a yearly or bi-yearly aero patch jobs to the noses and the teams attempt to warp cars more and more.

[@NoahGragsonFan629]

Love the video ❤❤

[@ShanGamer1981]

Great video

[@West_Coast_Mainline]

Man pinewood derbies were the best, I still have a kit

[@xai38-809]

You should do a video on l.w wright, it is a very interesting story!

[@TurboPro9952]

That 1st place kid: SCREW YOU TOO!

[@NASCARFAN93100]

Those Cars Back in the Day were Badass

[@plexxarbiitch]

Dude I still have my jimmy johnson wood car from one of those races I did at Charlotte motor speedway. Such good times

[@metronorthfoamer4085]

Pretty sure Toyota is considering switching up the Camry soon too, and who knows what Chevy will once the Camaro's run ends or gets a new generation. The third aero war might be beginning soon, and will probably be the most competitive.

[@_naZKar]

Bro I still have that exact same tony Stewart block of wood from when I was like 5

[@mikehomer5369]

the only pinewood derby I was in I was too fast and they don't let me race lol

[@Landmasters]

My man's playing No More Heroes music MOEEE~

[@mrbumpsb]

no more heroes part time job mini game theme goes crazy ngl

[@rosscrashtain]

I remember pinewood, i won regionals my tiger year, every other one flopped

[@acecombat2shill]

why does it have AIM-7s?

[@RailenThePlaneNerd]

Omfg it does

[@BDSFormula1]

I dunno

[@Toyota--Camry]

Ironically my Pinewood Derby car was a Plymouth Superbird. I just liked the car, and it got me second place!

[@noviranger239]

I made a Brad Keselowski car when I was 10 and finished P3. Nearly won.

[@coolfetus6733]

2023 Coke Zero 400 sorta had an aero war comeback with the fords espesically the SHR cars having different spoilers

[@sharkk127]

Oh god, the pinewood derby, its been what, 8 years, i remember the last year i did it i actually managed to get into i think either a county or statewide competition where i proceeded to get my ass beat because noone said anything about modifing your cars

[@RAD-RC]

Ha, I won my pinewood derby. I "designed" and cut my car out on my grandpa's scroll saw, no idea how it won or was so dominate.

[@ic3man]

11:55 Chevy kinda changed their gen 6 again for 2020

[@ryanwalker1593]

I didn't beat you. But I did win my pinewood derby in boy scouts. Keepy trophy in the garage. And I love that hate from a 2nd place car! Lol.

[@gripen777]

Petty would have been the last ace if he flew an F-16

[@theonlyegg]

1968 they had 49 races?? Holy crap. What did they only take the major holidays off?

[@heiselproductions_01]

Teeeeeechinally, the Superbirds wing is mounted further forward on the deck lid. (I know nobody cares, you don’t have to tell me.)

[@christopherallen1138]

If they out the stock part of racing back in, I might be interested. I never liked the paper mache simulacras out there.

[@TheDragonGuyYT]

Ah yes the Darkhorse, not surprised that it became a stock car

[@morganmurphy38]

The new Camry coming out has a similar nose to the mustang, obviously without looking like a mustang of course. Long and sleek, pointing down

[@oliveiradmdiogo]

I still don't like the fact that the Gen 7 only allows the nose and rear end of the cars to differ and everything else has to be the same, but at least it's not the COT

[@cartooncatboy3009]

It’s been like that for a long time

[@BReal-10EC]

I'm disappointed that just having to sell 3000 cars was enough to kill the early 70s experiments. Though maybe that low of a number (500) meant they could avoid having to meet the NHTSA bumper rules? That Charger Daytona nose was not a bumper.

[@chrisjhass]

You got me when you told first place from 15 years ago, "fuck you". Proceed.

[@Chillforev-dd9wr]

I won my first pinewood derby in my first showing with my Jimmie Johnson Lowe’s 48 and killed the field but then I got sick two years in a row and I had make the bodies to my cars and they were really aerodynamic my first car was rudimentary it was still aerodynamic but it still looked wonky and did not resemble a stock car but my 4th grade and 5th grade bodies resembled NASCAR’s and were very smooth and aerodynamic it’s a shame I didn’t get to participate because I would’ve got 3 first place trophy’s but I made up for it with a second place trophy for 6th grade and mind you with a car that was bare bones and was rushed. So I may be a genius.

[@Racecarlock]

Could you talk about the SCCA (Stock Car Club of America) sometime? I feel like it needs a bit of a viewership boost given how it has so far remained stock. Or at least civilian accessible.

[@cartooncatboy3009]

My favorite is GEN four

[@nascarkid9792]

Hey this was your 449th video 49 is in the number

[@leafclaw9309]

I got put in a big tournament with about 250 people in it and got 25th place

[@jefferyrobertson7520]

I Like 1986 Chevrolet Monte Carlo Super Sport Fastback Aero Coupe Totally Badass Modern Muscle Car And NASCAR Winston Cup Series

[@rouge4736]

IT WILL BE THE BEST THING IF THEY RACED SUPERBIRDS AGAIN FOR FUN THEY ARE THE BEST LOOKING CARS

[@imUPfanGeneral]

"to the kid that beat me that day over 15 years ago, flip you"

[@jebediahgentry7029]

Buddy Baker broke that record at Talladega.. not Atlanta

[@soddenseekergaming1975]

I made a Nascar style truck call the viper truck basically if I owned a car company name viper I won two trophies the best speed and the best design at my Awana Clubs at my church in 2017

[@SakuraPrime69]

0:24 😂

[@joeah99cr21]

I've always wondered, with all the extremely strict measurements teams can get penalized for, how is Ford even allowed to create the Dark Horse. Like it is noticeably different, so that means Nascar will have to inspect their cars differently than how they inspect Chevys and Toyotas? What?

[@connorbingel7134]

My guess is that is that the total numbers for drag, downforce, and other things are very similar and that’s why nascar is allowing it

[@SethBass83]

Dude. This video is exactly why parents need to screen everything their children see before they watch. I wish I could just turn on a video about an interesting subject without having to worry about an f-bomb or some other unnecessary, asinine lack of self-control.

[@cartooncatboy3009]

This has nothing to do with a video Why are you even commenting doing this?

[@Sleeper____1472]

NASCAR crashes always give me goosebumps. On another note though, do you think we'll ever get a Dodge again?

[@Johnny_Cage_Official]

Jesus Christ I get it’s called a Road Runner Super Bird but it don’t need wings

[@brettenhooks4966]

Can anyone tell me the song at the end?

[@AutoRockinRacing94]

Meanwhile at General Motors in the late 60s... 🦗🦗🦗