The AMRAAM Apocalypse | Seek and Destroy

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F-15J(M) Eagle
Aim120
AMRAAM
Fox 3
Seek and Destroy
And What Not

[@FairFireFight]

"He went low enough Oh he crashed" you either touch the ground or the missile touches you, pick your poison

[@nomikomaryu5049]

Or you learn basic evasive tactics that make it somewhat easy to evade these missiles.

[@-Mirage2K-]

@nomikomaryu5049 it still isnt easy, as well as that the mirage 2000 now only has 12 flares or 6 chaff, so yes, very easy.

[@nomikomaryu5049]

@@-Mirage2K- So as just an FYI, i have a bug where my flare and chaff get spent in like 2 button presses. Yet even with basically 0 cm I have only been hot by Fox-3's now 2 or 3 times. It can be easy to evade these missiles if you know basic evasive manuevers

[@-Mirage2K-]

@nomikomaryu5049 I know that but do you only have 6 chaff? No. No you don't. The game is unplayable without countermeasures

[@nomikomaryu5049]

@@-Mirage2K- you're right....I have 2 chaff. Again my stuff is pretty bugged too. Like it days 60chaff, but I can only pop it twice. After that what do I do? Evade the missiles.

[@frosty8183]

Me when point and click simulator reaches its final form

[@dotEXCEI_]

We dont when have meteor yet 😂

[@CT-7543]

Aim 260 next patch please add f35 US needs a buff :(((((((

[@bencurran3204]

​@dotEXCEI_ just think, block 6 asraam, meteor, typhoons maneuverability, any EU related nation is going to be toxic at 21.0

[@TeamValkyrie2023]

​@@CT-7543 you're kidding right?

[@blank_989]

​@@CT-7543 It's definitely true. Gaijin should add F-22A and AIM-9X II.

[@jesselang9331]

Time to get bullied by 50 unflareable missiles per game

[@Ming-Chan]

You can still chaff and notch them to an extent... but hitting countermeasures is not a free get of jail button. Still plenty of issues with gameplay balance though.

[@stevato0449]

@@Ming-Chan Ngl I haven't had any luck notching them, especially if they're already close to you

[@flanker1659]

Based, that's how modern combat works

[@Likeaworm]

I always have 3 fly right pass me before the mega merge each game lol. They sound scary AF when they zip past now

[@yuckjeondae_90]

@@Ming-Chan But not multiple activated missile engaging from different angle at the same time

[@sadiepretzlaff4555]

Welcome to the age of the SPAMRAAM, a familiar sight to all modern DCS players

[@jedispartancoolman]

Go play ace combat if y'all want an arcade with 4th gens

[@aldocarulli3054]

@@jedispartancoolman No because war thunder is an arcade game with realistic models (simcade) you absolute mouthbreather. Go play DCS if you want the "muh realism" brainrot you crave, or put this mechanics into sim mode and fuckoff over there. Fortunally everyone is shitting on these changes so at least the multipath will be reverted

[@ianking.5721]

@@jedispartancoolmanlmao you act like warthunder is any better then ace combat.. top tier warthunder is terrible

[@jedispartancoolman]

@@ianking.5721 leagues better? They don't play the same at all. This games sells itself as a hardcore arcade game while ace combat is literally anime fighters

[@jackgamer6307]

Oh my god... who could have forseen this? 16vs16 is unplayable with 100+ missiles in the air at once? no way....

[@-Mirage2K-]

Funny i quit war thunder top teir air because of 1 update, ive been playing it for 5 years so its sad to see

[@jackgamer6307]

@@-Mirage2K- I avoid this problem by playing exclusively low tier. Cemturion AVRE can be funny, a lot more effective than the churchil. If you get the right map of course

[@mikhailjairnisbett441]

I'm getting 12v12 only with the option enabled, it's pretty good

[@jackgamer6307]

@@mikhailjairnisbett441 noone else seems to get them, lucky you

[@-Mirage2K-]

@@mikhailjairnisbett441 what option? I gotta know cuz i cant do anything rn

[@absboodoo]

Public service announcement: Please remember to turn on the small battle option with the gear icon on the RB selector, and remember to swap out the shift + A and shift + D key for the new weapon selector.

[@Smojo10]

Too bad 96% of your games are still 16v16

[@thencrranger5628]

@@Smojo10 lies

[@Smojo10]

@@thencrranger5628 well I'm glad you've been lucky with it

[@joshuapurdy7065]

11:49 the sequence of events where it looks like the missile isn’t pulling and you question it only to missile cam and we get su-27 jump scared and the su-27 gets missile jump scared fucking sent me

[@TheTfrules]

Woah black Betty, AMRAAM

[@joshuapurdy7065]

This fucking got me

[@House_of_Schmidt]

We need a new game mode for Air. This is ridiculously broken.

[@luckeboii]

tried sim?

[@ultimatechad8738]

@@luckeboii tried actually enjoying the game instead of fumbling controls cause not everyone can drop half a salary for a joystick setup? and even if, missiles still remain the same so the issue is mostly present there as well

[@House_of_Schmidt]

@luckeboii yeah. It's fun but the cockpit only view just isn't for everyone.

[@luckeboii]

@@House_of_Schmidt true

[@luckeboii]

@@ultimatechad8738 im not playing on a joystick

[@pigeon4208]

Cool to see they added AMRAAMs, still not redownloading the game

[@ultimatechad8738]

Skill issue

[@Boris_The_Turtle]

It’s just worse honestly. Top tier air especially has sucked for a while now.

[@SebastianS-dt2fh]

@@Boris_The_Turtle nope, 11.0 - 12.0 is very nice right now

[@wonderpvp3201]

@@SebastianS-dt2fh no, 12.0 is the worst now, no aim-120 nor aim-9m for F-16 ADF

[@derritter3873]

The smaller game option is like a 5% chance to get. I got one after 4 games, but then after that, I’m 25+ games in and I haven’t seen any more small matches. I spedran the MICA-EMs, but now I’m playing the long game as I switched to Japan and now have to grind out the F-15J(M).

[@tobtuber8923]

Thats why u turn on the small games in the settings, it should eliminate the option of being able to be in 16v16

[@tamamonomae7465]

F15J is a joy, AA-3's are amazing and AA-4's will be absolutely busted

[@mr.abrams9885]

Slap a cipher skin on the F15, and we'll be cooking

[@Russertlog]

from the point the fox 3 test was annouced i knew toptier was fucked because planes with no amraams f16a f15a su27 first one and then you have a major disatvantage

[@ultimatechad8738]

bro what, Fox 3's can still be notched, and in a pure dogfight it's still a matter of skill, just because a few planes can snipe you from 20 kilometers further than before doesn't mean ARB is dead for anyone who uses the old top dog planes

[@Russertlog]

@@ultimatechad8738 bro me and my friend tested amraams in a custom and it was craazy

[@Registered_Simp]

@@ultimatechad8738 It's not a matter of kinetic performance. Kinetically, the missiles we have are more of the same, bar agility. It's the ARH seeker that fucks it. If I have an R-77 and someone is trying to press me, I can quickly turn in a bit, lock them off-bore, and shoot a missile to throw them defensive before notching again for safety. If I have an R-27ER, I can't turn in to guide my weapons since by the time my weapons reach him, I will have already been hit by a missile from him, and there is nothing I can do about it other than hope for a mutual kill or stay in the notch and try to work the merge. Fox-3's are a completely different animal.

[@explosivecommando9100]

​@@ultimatechad8738going full defensive everytime must be boring.

[@Bamiyanbigasf]

@@ultimatechad8738 SAR missiles can be, IR missiles too… these fox 3s are very fucking hard especially if you get more than one on you and not everyone is Tom cruise you shouldn’t need to be to play the game

[@calcifir]

Ive found myself enjoying air sim much more than RB, with the only downside being its only worth it once you have the funds to afford to play the game mode due to how the rewards work.

[@devdream9277]

Premium go brrrr

[@devdream9277]

When you play sim with premium you can't loose sl so it's only fun

[@CyberRecon]

@@devdream9277 with a perm Jet/Plane* i lose sl at top tier with perm time

[@patriktoth6258]

​@@CyberReconAs a guy with +600 SB match. You can if you do TK or you just do nothing at all. Mirage F1C-200+premium time also on my american line-up i don't have any premium planes above Tier 4. I managed to grind from Tier 6 (Cause the F105D&A7D was Tier 6 when i reached tier7) Its much better than before the "Sons of Attila" update.

[@devdream9277]

@@CyberRecon When you have premium time, if you loose SL, they will be refunded, at THE END of a match, that's why if the match is not over you'll see -10k sl for example

[@ScarDumb]

the amount of misuse of the word "larp" is hilarious.

[@wmouse]

Every time I use the vertical against someone while flying my Bf-109, I'm actually just LARPing. It has nothing to do with flying the plane how its supposed to be flown.

[@ScarDumb]

@@wmouse true

[@maggi98mw]

A single update makes almost all previous top tier planes obsolete and makes stock grind even more impossible than it used to be. This has to be the worst update for top tier to date... The only way fox-3 missiles could have been implemented is with dynamic BRs. As soon as a plane has a fox-3 equipped, it goes to BR 14 so it can`t face planes without them

[@KaguyasBeat]

Why did Joob sound so happy at the end: "I hit a tree? :D" 😂😂

[@Thunder_Noodle]

Gaijin cooked with this update but we already ate 🗣️🗣️🗣️🔥🔥🔥

[@williamdaines3755]

When the world needed him most, he returned!!!!

[@MuckyBeef]

11 views in 1 minute, damn joob you're popping off!

[@Nebulachadlazzar]

With the amount of things getting sucked into 13.0 and the reduction in multi pathing can we get an F-14A video?

[@SNIPERPRO-eb7si]

The only reason why so many things are getting sucked into top tier is because its by far the most popular battle rating atm, once people start playing other gamemodes after they get whatever they want at top tier the matchmaker will change and 12.3s and 12.0s will start getting more downtiers again

[@mikhailjairnisbett441]

It's really good right now, I got a single 12.7 game in 25+ matches. And the aim54s hit more often due to people not being able to just ground hug in a straight line. Currently at 2.5 kills per death

[@IceGuadian]

The multiplying ceiling honestly feels closer to 10-20 meters than the advertised 60

[@mikhailjairnisbett441]

I've gotten multiple kills at and around 30 meters with aim 7m/f.

[@cptstratboss8561]

Is that a good or bad thing?

[@DraconixDG]

Fox 3's and the Multipathing change is quite a wombo combo

[@UnclePutte]

algorithm put me on your f104 video just now, and then this. Neat.

[@-Hari-03]

this update is absolute slop. gaijin is actively compressing high tier air even further by only putting ARH missiles at 12.7-13.0. needs to be a much bigger gap tbh. AND they still wont let us play exclusively 12v12 or even give us the option for 8v8. im not playing top tier until its playable (it wont ever be)

[@musclife7232]

ı aggre

[@LT_Clara]

I think the Harrier at 12.3 has them too

[@GoodGuyRuska-]

turn on small matches in settings

[@personwithaskillissue]

Yeah but it's a Harrier ​@@LT_Clara

[@-Hari-03]

@@GoodGuyRuska- i have but its no guarantee AND 12v12 isnt small enough as each plane at that tier is carrying 4 missiles MINIMUM, usually 8 and sometimes 10, so its basically an average of 80-120 missiles PER TEAM, half of which are now active radar homing/fire and forget and the other half are IRCCM. its borderline impossible to dodge that many missiles let along keep track of them, theres not really a whole lot of skill involved, theres a lot of luck needed. if we had 4v4 (perfect for squad v squad gameplay) and optional 8v8 for those who want something more hectic then id be fine with it. but 12v12 is simply not small enough and currently thats the minority of games witht the majority being 16v16 still. its just not fun. 16v16 is perfect for props where its guns only, but definitely not active radar homing and IRCCM capable jets lobbing missiles at eachother. if there was a top tier guns only gamemode, 16v16 could be really fun. but 16v16 is NOT set up for these missiles

[@hmkjuygj7t]

most of my aim120 dont hit is that cuz the circle at launch is white? i heard the color doesn't matter for the aim120

[@GoodGuyDevin]

one of of the benefits of the fox-3's os that so many people die at the start of that match that the only people left were the ones going cold and defending;........ yk like it would be in real life if that many missles were being shot

[@James2kM]

phoenixes either kills mid-air or the blast kills too from flying too low, ive seen teams getting completely wiped so many times today

[@TeamValkyrie2023]

Have they fixed the flare bug? As a German main i damn sure ain't playing top tier until my plane stops firing every flare i have when i push the button 1 time

[@XxCROXY]

i wonder how you got 2 circles when you have them on lock how do i do that?

[@MandaCoster]

Joob : This game sucks, honestly. Me : Yeah, i agree *(Opening WarThunder)

[@Swayze1997]

How do I hide the inventory indicator at the bottom of the screen

[@Squood]

Why would they lower the multipathing height in the same update they bring in Fox-3’s?

[@puwaGT]

That friendly fire is from that you didn't lock long enough

[@devineastman3108]

F16 eats through flares now, uses 20 every time they are used, and some jets get flares back after being used

[@gtmike916]

The flare counter is bugged. I can still use flares even after my counter hits 0 with the F-15C.

[@lorensawyer3222]

Did i pick the worst time to buy my first premium (j35xs). Been getting hit by missles that jump scare me

[@ReMiiX-]

Us mains thinking the US will finally be the best, Just for gayjin to fabricate all kinds of Air to air missiles to match the Aim 120

[@Jay-mq2ng]

Feel like I’m in the super super super super small minority that’s loving the update. I went from reliably getting 1-2 kills a match to 3-5. In constantly top fragging and my F16Cs KD went from 1.3 to 3.2 in just a matter of a week.

[@lasombra120680]

Honestly... attacking from about 10K Meters down has been loads of fun.

[@theperson5185]

If you use the amraams in TWS, they added a feature where the radar can track up to 2 different targets with the f14a/b it’s 6!

[@DatFatThor]

The F15 can track 8 iirc, it's really cool

[@theperson5185]

@@DatFatThor not in game, in game it’s up to only 2

[@jaek__]

​@@theperson5185No, check the change logs, it's 8.

[@DatFatThor]

@theperson5185 in the update changelog they said it can do up to 8

[@theperson5185]

@@DatFatThor oh? Actually???

[@M1A2Abrams.19-9O]

You gotta go cold lol

[@janflorovic5880]

There’s an option to limit lobby size

[@The_LeMi]

what is wrong with vulcan sound

[@theflyinggasmask]

More like: "The 16vs16 Apocalypse Continues"

[@TormentedPenguin]

reminds me of the Phoenix spam when F14A came out. Click shoot, click, shoot, click shoot, Land.. repeat.

[@jfd9616]

Hey joob, do you think you'll be able to try the funny 50g micas ? they're a blast.

[@_Joob]

Yes, probably up next.

[@STRYKER1467]

Gripen is crazy OP its on par with the Eurofighter Typhoon im curious why the typhoon wasnt added...

[@shini44-44]

I have a problem with the new multipath. Almost everyone I fire a r77 at fly so damn low they splat the ground and I don't get a kill

[@KoiR2Y2]

Why aren’t you using the aam4, did you not have it unlocked??

[@_Joob]

Apparently it’s unfinished, but don’t quote me on that.

[@Registered_Simp]

@@_Joob The AAM-4 was absolute dogshit for range on dev server (Subsonic at 40km and 8,000m💀). They have patched it since for live. The missile is actually great now. From my testing it appears to be that AAM-4 is better at higher altitudes, and Aim-120A/B is better at lower altitudes

[@liambarber3180]

"I'm free looking and not able to control the plane" bro is basically playing on console

[@ToastRepublic]

Yeah with the small lobbies I've had, it's been very playable. But 16 16 isn't fun....

[@titortinhas228]

They really needs to put EC for RB with the largest Map ever

[@mochabear88]

ty

[@christoffermonikander2200]

Don't get way the snail doesn't just add awacs and proper datalinks that lets you fire bvr missiles from 100km without having to get locks or even use your own radar.

[@ironchiri5251]

Because only US has real AWACS, Russia and china has phantom scarecrow version of it

[@gtmike916]

These missiles don’t reach past 100km. Also that’s a whole another mechanic that would take MAJOR testing to implement. Besides there are a lot of bugs to fix, and you can fire from TWS anyway.

[@loadout3727]

Point and click sim reached its final form finally🙏

[@badmalc]

Multipath nerf killed 11+. Phoenix spam is even crazier than it was on launch, because now usually only one side has America. Instead of going and making every fox 3 different, they just slapped a lazy 'fix' too all different systems. Really dumb.

[@DatFatThor]

Me when people want realism and then complain when a realistic fix is added. Also 11.3 is a ton of fun and most F14's still miss a majority of their Phoenix's and die.

[@wmouse]

They should just add "Guns Only Air RB" mode for people who want that.

[@imaginewinning5679]

don't forget to press the "smaller matches" button thing.

[@usmcpound]

Tried my hand in my Gripen A on sim, quit about 10 min later. It’s impossible to do anything.

[@timrileyy]

What if you had to do a certain task before gaining access to missile systems? Broaden the dogfight aspect of the game a bit

[@buzraelYT]

What's next? Stealth planes?

[@Takamiya_Mio]

Multipath removal ruined everything. I want to ask people who cried to remove multipath in ARB in forum. They made this. It's all their fault. I miss initial dev server, when the multipath was still in it.

[@creesed9041]

Nah, thank fuck it got removed, tryna play modern fighters like a mig or sabre is stupid, people dying now either don’t know how to defend against missiles or don’t care enough to learn too.

[@bruhhhhmoment4848]

I was able to play for a few hours didn’t get one smaller game

[@tezbertzero1915]

As a swedish rank IV main without any damn idea about radars and missiles I completely agree with this man Edit: Damn that dogfight with the Gripen was nuts

[@Someguyiguess-iw9nl]

Searching… Seek and destroy!!!!!!🤘🤘🤘(iykyk)

[@burneracc2567]

Yeah, not gonna touch JA37C ever again. I know it can't face ARHs but multipathing got nerfed and there are still boatloads of SARHs at it's BR.

[@ultimatechad8738]

Ahem, notching.

[@kri7752]

​@@ultimatechad8738Why the people cannot understand that is not possible to notch if the enemy is right in front of you

[@burneracc2567]

@@ultimatechad8738 no dude, Viggens get so few countermeasures that I don't want to fly higher (to give myself the room to notch) and risk being seen and I haven't unlocked all the mods to be fast enough to climb that fast anyway.

[@dawsonisabozo]

How do you watch your missile after you shoot it??

[@carlosadonayguardadogaleas6150]

Press U

[@dpCuber]

ah yes. i love point and click simulator

[@Jonas-em9gb]

16v16 is to much i think 8v8 would be much better its a good middle, also could you maybe do an settings video for controls?

[@smallstats]

its a lil to early to judge the patch rn tbh cool to see a change tho

[@jansatamme6521]

Play like the f4s or f4j or some other sparrow slinger, the MP changes affect them too and its p fun, f-14a is meta again also

[@shitpost4204]

Just need RB ec as a permanent mode

[@Vengeance4308]

Air Rb players when they have to play realistic notch and manage distance

[@_Joob]

Yeah, shit is boring and requires less skill than ever. Who cares if it’s realistic if it’s not fun

[@gopnik6439]

I played the night before and got over 20 kills and had fun the update came out the next day and I honestly don’t want to play anymore they need to add countermeasures for these or nerf them or just straight up remove them

[@DatFatThor]

There are countermeasure for them, it's called notching and chaffing. Joob literally does it in the video. You can't play braindead ooga booga anymore and succeed, you actually have to be smart

[@LazyActor]

@@DatFatThor i tested this theory and did nothing for 10 matches but go straight at the blob and launch missiles the moment it was possible they would hit, I got 27 kills in an hour, oooooogggggggaaaa boooooggggggaaaa

[@mtunit]

I'll try wt again, in about a year .

[@nathanluong3063]

i prefer this over the IRCCM meta from before

[@mrgarland5210]

The other thing about 16vs16. TWS just become completely unmanageable and annoying since TWS likes to follow people even if you turn your plane you can no longer see directly forward.

[@YoRHaUnit2Babe]

F14s are so fun now😊

[@Quicky_knight94]

0:40 there is a option to have smaller games

[@plsmawarthunder]

watching this gave me aim 64 spam flashbacks

[@BufferThunder]

bro invented a missile

[@Tyler-yf6ij]

@@BufferThunderI was going to say this 😭😭

[@GoodGuyRuska-]

ive played like 20 top tier matches today not one one of them wasnt 16 vs 16 smh

[@mrmindor4980]

I just know hes gonna get 42 kills

[@stanvandenadort4710]

what my problem mostly is, is that the spotting system is so damn useless, sometimes an enemy is spotted only 2km in front of you or at best 5km in front of you which means you will instantly die to a radar missile nowadays, if they actually fixed the spotting system, it would be a lot more bearable to play 16v 16 because it would be a lot more forgiving.

[@kvanckart2267]

joob you can sellect arb with less players in the gamemode sellector

[@badllama8090]

WOW spawn shoot die repeat (every 30 seconds) 👌👌👍👍👏👏

[@DUCts927]

Dam

[@szalacsypeter2933]

i cant play a game in my netz without getting killed by unflareable, unspotted missiles from f16C-s idk if ill ever play top tier even once a month like before ill stick to my f2 sabre its actually fun as back in the days

[@D4nger_CLO5E]

Sorry not sorry, much better then IRCCM ground sniffers in center of map XD did you think modern jets would be anything but missile spam? and we haven't even got 9X or IRIS-T yet lol If you want gun fights go to custom matches or lower tier jets.

[@DatFatThor]

Someone with actual sense. People whined so much about wanting amraams and more modern systems but now they bitch when it's all added. If they hate fox 3 usage then go back to 11.3 or lower where they aren't at.

[@gtmike916]

Yeah the multi path abuse bullshit was the most stupid thing ever. This is modern air combat with modern jets and missiles. They can go play lower tier or go play Ace Combat. This game is way better now.

[@KekusMagnus]

@@gtmike916 >literally unplayable garbage >bbbuut it's better than the previous unplayable garbage maybe modern air combat just sucks to play?

[@ElderWillows]

Inb4 they add Aim-9X next patch. I'll never leave 11.7 again.

[@Gibbo263]

9.3 is the highest im going now

[@crayonsarechill8745]

all you have to do is not fly high it makes yourself way too big of a target especially with these small maps considering the range on the Fox-3's, that on top of knowing how to notch/go cold and defend

[@Registered_Simp]

Been flying high the whole day and have had infinitely better results than flying low. I have speed. I have space. I have situational awareness. I have range. Wouldn't trade it for a now reduced multipath effect

[@crayonsarechill8745]

@@Registered_Simp yeah i can undestand that i mainly just hide behind terrain in worst case scenarios

[@crayonsarechill8745]

@@Registered_Simp just tried out what you said with side climbing and it works great just depends on map imo

[@finnm.2582]

SPAMRAAM Apocalypse.

[@MrJibJub13]

buff chaff

[@xYoshiko.]

Missle thunder

[@Bamiyanbigasf]

There needs to be a cut off… my f16AJ doesn’t even get aim9m wtf am I even supposed to do besides buy my way to this jet

[@user-ir1oo8oh8v]

7:30 Gripen ASMR

[@callsigntonks4029]

How do dodge them?

[@alexturnbackthearmy1907]

There is no reliable, 100% working method anymore. 60m is basically tree altitude (dont ask, trees are ridiculously tall in air battles), and you cant possibly notch more then one missile.

[@guitar7279]

No

[@Randomstuffigidk1]

just try staying low to the ground and if you know what direction a missile is coming from try hiding behind a mountain or hill

[@Registered_Simp]

Suggestion: Keep your speed up and have some altitude to spare. Speed is life and altitude is insurance. Depending on terrain, multipathing is still an option. But over mountainous terrain, do not consider it reliable. Try to anticipate when a missile is shot at you from opponents who may be a threat, and defend accordingly. When defending an incoming missile, put it on the 3 or 9 o'clock position and deploy chaff. It'll take some practice to get proficient at it (Especially if you need to notch in a hurry), but do not be deterred. Notching will reliably defeat every radar missile in the game, including these new ones.

[@nomikomaryu5049]

Just got back on rb, the lower count and just using basic evasive tactics from irl situations you'll be fine.

[@DatFatThor]

This guy gets it

[@_Joob]

I feel like people are seeing me say “this game sucks” and somehow re-interpreting that in to “I don’t like this because it’s hard” It’s like actually pretty darn easy, but easy doesn’t mean fun. The combat is boring.

[@nomikomaryu5049]

@@_Joob okay, so what is so easy to you? And also have you thought that it's only easy rn because we're at the beginning of the learning curve?

[@LazyActor]

@@nomikomaryu5049 nothing has changed, timmies have more killing power now but they already had stupid killing power, easier to use weapons does not translate to a higher skill ceiling no matter how much time passes. In six months if nothing changed the players will play exactly the same way they are right this instant.

[@nomikomaryu5049]

@@LazyActor It's more of effectiveness. For example, you're already seeing people climb just days after the update. Why? Because higher altitudes increases weapon effectiveness. Now the Red Team has yet to do this. I've seen a handful of F-15J's climb however that's all. Not a single Su-27SM nor Mig-29SMT has climbed which makes the R-77 less effective since the majority of its burner is fighting through the drag of denser air. (This is mainly Sim btw) On top of that yiu will have to fight decently hard just to close in for a Fox-2 shot let alone a bfm fight, so the skill level has increased and it will only increase as weapons become more advanced with better engines and better tracking systems. Now until they realize these things, they're gonna keep complaining about it.

[@logannotpaul889]

you should play the new f4 for germany, it's 11.7 and has 4 aim-120s

[@guitar7279]

Its 12,7 💀💀💀💀

[@mattiatrambaiolo8045]

12.3 (or12.7 i dont remember but for sure not lower than 12.3)

[@alexturnbackthearmy1907]

12.7. The bison is 11.7, but it doesnt get R77.

[@CAPYNANESLAY1708]

They HAVE to revert the multipathing nerf if you stay below 15m you'd die to splash dmg

[@tamamonomae7465]

Good. LEARN HOW TO DEFEND AND MAKE TOP TIER INTERESTING

[@CrispyMuffin2]

​@tamamonomae7465 genuine question, how do you defend against missiles fired simultaneously from like 7 people at once from all around you

[@Registered_Simp]

Depending on terrain, it's still not that hard to multipath most missiles TBH. You just have to be paying attention and know what terrain is around you (Or just try not to need to multipath the missile to the extent you can)

[@tamamonomae7465]

@CrispyMuffin2 by not flying into the giant furball, it's like the equivalent of holding shift + w in any sort of tactical shooter lol Pick off stragglers who tunnel vision, working from high to low, keep SA always and don't be afraid to defend or go cold and run towards help if shit goes sour, if no stragglers wait until the furball develops to a point where people are dogfighting and slow and do hit and runs. Avoid high alt unless you're plane is built for it like the f15 where it performs best between mach 1.4 and 2.0 Oh and pay attention to your rwr / radar or visually identify missile launches via smoke

[@tamamonomae7465]

What I like to do in f15j in ec is just fly to 10km, hit mach 2, at that alt and speed you're pretty much untouchable, then when furball is going I slam on the brakes and dive straight down into it, launching every aa3 and 7m I can, it usually nets me 3-5 kills