The Antidote to Pretentious Art? Just Look, Don’t Think | David Salle

The Antidote to Pretentious Art? Just Look, Don’t Think
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After a trip to the art gallery, people normally find themselves exhausted. Extracting the meaning from 100+ artworks over several hours is a tough task for your mind; you’re neural resources are depleted, and the nearest place to recover is the museum café that sells cups of tea and sponge cake that cost almost as much the admission.
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DAVID SALLE :
Born in 1952 in Norman, Oklahoma, David Salle grew up in Wichita, Kansas. In 1970, he began his studies at the newly founded California Institute of the Arts in Valencia, where he worked with John Baldessari. Creating abstract paintings, installations, and video and conceptual pieces, Salle earned a BFA in 1973 and an MFA in 1975, both from CalArts.
After school, Salle moved to New York, where he supported himself by working for artists, including Vito Acconci; teaching art classes; and cooking in restaurants. He also did paste-up in the art department of a soft-core pornography magazine. When the publisher folded, Salle saved a group of stock photographs depicting nudes, sporting events, airplane crashes, and such, which he later used as source material for his paintings.
Salle has mentioned the influence of filmmakers Douglas Sirk, Rainer Werner Fassbinder, and Preston Sturges on his thinking beginning in the mid-1970s. Cinematic devices-from close-ups and zooms to panning, montage, and splicing-have indeed been recognized in his work.
Salle’s work for the stage began in 1981, when he was asked to design the set and costumes for Birth of the Poet, a play by Kathy Acker under the direction of Richard Foreman. He has designed sets and costumes for numerous works by Karole Armitage-an avant-garde choreographer and dancer with whom he lived for seven years-beginning with their 1985 collaboration on The Mollino Room, performed by Mikhail Baryshnikov and the American Ballet Theatre. He also directed the commercial film Search and Destroy(1995), which was produced by Martin Scorsese and features Ethan Hawke, Dennis Hopper, and Christopher Walken.
Solo shows of Salle’s art have been organized by the Museum am Ostwall Dortmund (1986-87), Institute of Contemporary Art at the University of Pennsylvania in Philadelphia (1986-88), Stedelijk Museum in Amsterdam (1999), and Waddington Galleries in London (2003), among others. He has participated in major international expositions including Documenta 7 (1982), Venice Biennale (1982 and 1993), Whitney Biennial (1983, 1985, and 1991), Paris Biennale (1985), and Carnegie International (1985). The artist lives and works in New York City and Sagaponack, New York.
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TRANSCRIPT:
David Salle: Not all art necessarily makes an appeal to the visual senses, but let's say that most of it does. So it might seem unnecessary or unnecessarily elementary to say so, but sometimes it's worth reminding ourselves that art is something meant to be seen primarily, that the appeal that art makes to our intellect and emotions, our attention, is achieved through visual stimuli and that's a different animal than other things, than writing or music. The eyes are capable of incredibly subtle perceptual distinctions that happen at an unconscious level. So the act of looking consciously is the really partly a matter of paying attention to what it is we notice when we really look at something.
Another way of putting it is to think about drawing, if you've ever taken a drawing class or you've ever even read a book about how drawing is taught, the first most elementary lesson is usually a demonstration of the difference between what you see in front of you and what you think you see. The first attempts at drawing something from life, from perception, invariably involve distorting what's actually in front of you because the brain intercedes with the eye and gives false information.
For example, we know that the head has two eyes a nose and a mouth so we will draw it that way even if in fact we don't see both eyes equally or we don't see - depending upon our point of view we'll see a partial representation of what the brain thinks of as reality. So this is a long way around of saying that the way to approach the visual world is to take in the information and let it work on your cortex without, well it's impossible to say without but while trying to stay neutral in terms of what we think we know because part of the confusion surrounding con...
For the full transcript, check out bigthink.com/videos/david-sal...

[@cosmicatrophy4648]

Why is it that when someone speaks about abstract concepts, people can't follow or assume they are high. Everything he said made perfect sense.

[@SaHaRaSquad]

Yeah, it kinda made sense. But he also took 10 minutes to say something any decent speaker can say in 2 minutes. If he wants people to listen he should prepare himself better, because searching for the right words every half sentence makes listening to him really painful.

[@dripfoe_3307]

SaHaRaSquad Yeah that was so cringy. He knew he was gonna speak on this, so he shouldve prepared.

[@memyself4617]

Maybe he´s no good speaker but a good painter. Maybe he just had a bad day. So to say it with his words: When you perceive his 'speech' with cognitive dissonance, he probably didn´t well this piece of art (talk) for your opinion. I understand him and know that he was grabbing the abstract in mind while he was trying to lable this abstract for us guys with words to understand. It is like doing a freestyle and at the same time explaining what you are doing. So first building a flow with both brain-hemispheres to grab the abstract and then breaking it bcs of explaining it to the outter world. It´s not easy to really go deep into that perception and also speak about it at the same time. Imagine driving a car in high traffic and at the same time explaining your co-driver all the detail of your actions and surroundings for him to grab the 'thing' you are doing. (Making the invisible visible requires a lot of capacity. So for you either patience, or for him a lot of practicing this particular topic in speech.)

[@SaHaRaSquad]

Me Myself "Maybe he´s no good speaker but a good painter. Maybe he just had a bad day." Irrelevant. Decent preparations would have made the video much better. And for presentations etc. there is no such thing as a bad day. "It´s not easy to really go deep into that perception and also speak about it at the same time." Again, preparing for the video would have made this a non-issue. This isn't a spontaneous surprise interview. "Imagine driving a car in high traffic and at the same time explaining your co-driver all the detail of your actions and surroundings for him to grab the 'thing' you are doing." So pretty much what every driving instructor does every day at work.

[@andid]

Am I the first the point out the irony of Big Think asking us not to think so much? Do I win some kind of shirt?

[@PaulRonquillo]

If you pause the video at random moments it looks like he has no idea what he's talking about either. Or he's pausing to burp up sentences.

[@TheCelticChimp]

Paul Ronquillo You don't understand. He is sooo deep that reaching down that far into a well of profundity and hauling up such distilled diamonds of wisdom and insight takes time!

[@Tracy_AC]

Very insightful. I particularly like what he said about people approaching art with the intent of figuring out the meaning instead of just observing the art first by its principle components. I think this idea also applies to the artists themselves. Contemporary artists have become overly obsessed with the meaning of their work and have lost sight of the construction.

[@ugtitto2654]

Not often can you hear the contemporary art world people who are not indoctrinated into "anything can be art, anyone is an artist" bullshit. Most contemporary artists have lost even the rudimentary drawing and painting skills, but it doesn't stop them from selling 7 figures. Looking at such art I can't help thinking that I live in the world of absurd.

[@YUInoRUIDO]

Problem is that with modern art there isnt much to appreciate or contemplate in the first place. For instance Robert Rauschenberg’s White Paintings. What am I supposed to see? The only way to appreciate it is to spit some pretentious argument of whatever metaphysic bullshit I can come up with. And I will probably get it wrong since the artist already wrote a whole explanation of how we are supposed to read the "piece" Or what about "Rollin’ rock"... ITS A FUCKING ROCK. I could go to a desert or a forest and have a deeper experience than a modern art museum.

[@eboy4032]

you can go to a desert or forest and have a deeper experience than any art museum

[@sirurugly]

2 things the white paintings mean to me that I think are totally unpretentious: 1) It asks me to recognize and appreciate white. White is mostly an invisible colour. It colours our paper and our websites (this one for example) but more often than not the whiteness plays second fiddle to whatever people put on the paper. But white itself can be main stage, right? Why not? White has cool qualities, its spacious and simultaneously very close. Its how we imagine purgatory. It signifies purity. White is interesting. 2) By putting up a white canvas in an art gallery context, the artist is perhaps challenging the public who often equate effort with worthiness. I say this as a secondary point because this reading is just derivative of DuChamp's stuff. Nonetheless, the fact that it angered you is the painting asking a valuable question. SO ya, I know liking art is a bourgeoisie faux pas that will get me shit on on this website, but hey, I love me some art.

[@wazzap500]

sirurugly lemme correct: "...that are totally *pretentious*:"

[@ABitOfTheUniverse]

What was he talking about? I zoned out a minute in. Something about pie?

[@PaulyPaulPaul]

He basically said: When approaching (modern) art, don't over-think it. When you eat a pie, you don't think "what is the meaning of the pie", intead you experience eating the pie and if you enjoy it you might want to learn more about the pie; it's ingredients/recipe etc. He advised thinking about how an artist makes a piece of work, what the process was, etc. I think he just wants people to look at art and if you enjoy looking at tit, that's what's important.

[@raphaelepache5290]

Paul Doeman Indeed, looking at tits IS important!

[@protte225]

Pie only has to taste good, it doesn't have to communicate anything beyond that. Any art form must communicate some kind of meaning or else it has no validity.

[@PaulyPaulPaul]

protte225 Most art is created with no particular inherent meaning. When a viewer sees meaning, it was projected by the viewer.

[@protte225]

***** In order for there to be communication, there must be some intended meaning. This obviously applies to verbal language but,also, to any musical idiom or art form.

[@__-cx6lg]

"Don't think." --Big Think

[@VoidStar.]

The antidote to pretentious art? Don't look, talk, or act like this guy.

[@AmsterdamHeavy]

fuckin A, I was thinking the same thing

[@ConTodayTempo]

just because you think you know what something means doesn't mean you got the artists point you might be completely off which i think you are in relation to what this guy said

[@Gyrant]

If you deliberately alter your persona (your use of language, appearance, intellectual approach) in order to not appear pretentious, isn't that pretence of a kind? 90% of the time when someone calls something "pretentious" they're just trying to avoid admitting that they don't understand it. Their logic is "I don't understand what this guy is talking about, and since I'm literally the smartest person on Earth, it's impossible that anyone else could understand it. Anyone who says they do understand it is, therefore, merely pretending. Pretentious pricks." Accusations of pretentiousness are the first line of defence used by the intellectually insecure. The irony being that it takes a kind of pretence to say that there isn't more to understand about something, rather than to admit that you simply don't understand it.

[@ConTodayTempo]

Grant Novak do you mean pretence or pretension ?

[@VoidStar.]

He is pretentious because he's just capitalizing on ideas and philosophies concerning art and our perception of art that has been banged out by people tons of times over the last, oh... CENTURIES. But, by all means : buy this man's book rehashing the same old song & dance. I might mention you can find the same concepts being explored for free all over the internet, though.

[@bigolbearthejammydodger6527]

Man this guys like one of my lectureres from when I was at uni. Probably brilliant man but listening to him is so damn sleep inducing. This chap should write his speech and get a good speaker to read it. On the subject of getting rid of pretentious art - the problem is pretentious people. We need to get rid of the 'lots of money full of shit socialites' and there will be no pretentious art.. just poor starving crazy idiots chopping cows in half and shitting in cans.

[@wayfarerpg]

Yeah don't think just ignore it and hope it will go away.

[@EgerionKhazar]

Thump photo is taken from a movie that i cant remember its name..Do you guys remember it?

[@macswarthy]

TL;DR: Don't assume you know what the art is about before looking at it. If you still don't get it, it's your fault, which sounds a whole lot like another cop out for making crap and calling it "art".

[@Whathuhwhowhere]

As a portrait painter and someone studying art in school, From my point all he's saying is just use your eyes and observe, think after cause some like to know 7 layers of meaning before they really observe something as a whole, from close up and far away, and down to the small details. Just look, then think.

[@androidtechgeek]

Where did all of the intelligent people go on Big Think? No one should ever discourage thinking.

[@thefashionablephilosopher]

I am in awe, this man just summarized the majority of what I learned after months of being in art school in a mere 10 minutes

[@MacDKB]

He's right of course, but is there really any 'just looking' at something? Observing something ipso facto pretty much entails understanding it. That's kind of the whole purpose of having eyes, isn't it lol? He's right though in the sense of taking the "sometimes a cigar is just a cigar" approach to pretentious art. By over-analysing it, you play right into the artist's hands, who in all probability created what he did as an attempt to mindfuck the viewer, and in the most cynical way possible. In other words, that kind of art is insincere and hostile to the viewer, and therefore devoid of virtue...

[@asdgashash]

There is an unassuming, focused state of mind one has to enter to draw from life, to look at lines, angles, and proportions without distraction. Otherwise your brain takes shortcuts to save energy, and pulls simplistic symbols from your memory.

[@ConTodayTempo]

there is a moment when you look at something before the mind tries to lable it or say it mean this or it means that so yes i would say there is

[@Vynzent]

This guy seems like a very poor speaker. He's right on the money though. If I got what he was mumbling.

[@JuliusUnique]

you have to listen to this on 2x speed, otherwise it is unwatchable, those breaks give me cancer

[@cortster12]

In short, "don't think about it, just accept it".

[@SaHaRaSquad]

The antidote to boring, mind-numbing talks? Just prepare yourself so you don't have to search for the right words half of the time.

[@fredygump5578]

so....contemporary art is acupuncture for the mind?

[@TASmith10]

How about, "Think based on looking, not on listening to someone else who's blind." Before anyone misconstrues that, I'm speaking figuratively.

[@dripfoe_3307]

I like his perspective on it. but he does seem high asf

[@ThirdDimensionalBeing]

Maybe because when we're high everybody looks high as fuck?

[@keyxo_verskem]

Salle's book, "Hot to See"? I'm sure she meant "How to See"

[@GilesBathgate]

2. to 1. How 3. See

[@drgrounder]

he's high af

[@LeonidasGGG]

Advice I take to heart everytime I see a new Star Wars movie.

[@irishelk3]

No, that's not the antidote, that's how they do it.

[@sandreid87]

Big Think having a title telling us not to think - Good thinking?

[@MrCerebellum2]

His Obama style pauses are on point.

[@theartyone]

What a load of waffle... almost 10 mins of saying nothing. Like a lot of contemporary art today I guess. Too busy trying to be too clever and end up saying nothing and alienating 99% of people (and feeding the pretentious 1% of hipsters and art snobs).

[@lightsidemaster]

Ha! Amen! Couldn't have said it better!

[@theartyone]

***** Thank you. I'd be curious of counter comments on this.

[@lightsidemaster]

theartyone I can't think of any lol. But well I'm not an expert on Art, all I can say is when someone literally.... LITERALLY shits on a canvas, and some "Art experts" interpret the meaning of life into it, then that's proof enough how messed up the entire art world is. I mean just compare that to all the masterpieces done by Leonardo Da Vinci. It's ridiculous.

[@Doomroar]

Man the subtitles save this video.

[@drewliedtke2377]

The antidote? Try to make it yourself. You may find importance in the banality.

[@drewliedtke2377]

if you felt like you wasted time, then maybe you missed the point. It's all about how YOU come at the work. Do you come at it thinking you are better than it or the creator, or did you come at it to possibly learn something? Maybe you missed the point because the work didn't convey its point properly, in which case, that is not any of your fault and it is bad art.

[@jomocheatham]

So you don't know what to do when confronted with pretentious art. It's ok that you don't know, but just say that you don't and leave it at that. Thanks anyway.

[@TheCelticChimp]

"we know its laden with meaning", yeah, odd though that when you ask one of these artists what thier art means, you get a stream of pseudointellectual bollox.

[@PauloNideck]

I love damien hirst

[@mullac1992]

For once on a big think video, I agree with the downvoters.

[@chescarino]

i like dabs too..

[@love_exegence]

BigThink = information overload.

[@joshuaclark3406]

Is this some kind of meta commentary? Because I felt like I was going into coma whilst watching this.

[@Theraot]

Art is to be seen. Music is not art - David Salle

[@rickson50]

sounds like a pretentious idiot. 'Art' is anything that incites thought or emotion as a muse. A painting is just a drawing until it makes someone think something new or feel something

[@sqlblindman]

What's the antidote to pretentious big think videos?

[@PaulRonquillo]

cancer

[@mrpixel3579]

A FOOL AND HIS MONEY ARE EASILY PARTED.

[@JewTube001]

ok

[@LocSec]

This guy sounds like Obama during an interview

[@gavinfoley103]

This guy talks as though he needs to relieve himself of a significant weight. Modern art is often visually repulsive by design. This may be a good thing for all I know, but it makes his proposition difficult to accept.

[@ms_ch]

Oh, hell, the modern art crap...

[@jamesharris9217]

David Salle speaking of art reminds me how Donald Trump sounds like when speaking of politics. Total bullshit

[@Testosterone_Messiah]

Speaker needs a lobotomy

[@3yearshardcore1]

Lay off the smack

[@omglolzbbqsauce]

visual art is trash tier