The Antioch Declaration - WHY!?: Joe & Doug Speak for Themselves

[@YayGrr1]

10:45 The issue is it has now been public for months, so it can no longer be resolved privately. That cat was let out of the bag when Tobias took to public slander. 11:00 Longer than a month is not an unrealistic timeline for resolution. 13:21 The sheep on the fringes of the flock are the first to see the wolves. If she shepherds refuse to address their bleats, they are also the first to be eaten. 18:20, 19:10 This is not something coming from only young men. I am a father of 3, my wife and I are both in our 30s, own a large swath of land with livestock, 3 cars, 2 houses - one of which my elderly father lives in at my expense, all debt free, I am deacon/elder of my church (same position) and set to be elected a member of my town council. When do I cease to be a young, fatherless man? 19:30 Never heard of Joel Webbon, Stone Chior, Sam Holden, etc. before this debacle. I had heard of Andrew Isker before because he was on your programming. Your sheep seek truth (Logos) and will crowd around shepherds speaking it. If you are losing people to these other pastors, check yourself, not your sheep. "My sheep know my voice."

[@YayGrr1]

23:30 Ironic that you claim Peter was intimidated by the judaizers (sp?). 25:30 It's not the fragile right, it's the truth-seeking right. You are participating in ad hominem denouncement here, Dr. Boot. 25:50 Who are the ones canceling whom, again? 26:00 It stuck a nerve because it is a bad declaration. You said as much yourself like a minute earlier with your "hindsight is 20:20" spiel and immediately following. 26:45 You are conflating application of theology with a declaration of orthodoxy. This whole section by Dr. Boot, just.... like my gut response is 'you have a PHD? Wow.' 27:30 And you are refusing to be a student of, and address the people.

[@HuttoCitizen]

Also never heard of SC until an episode of the DL by JW. Not sure if this a case of the Streisand effect but I’m sure SC is fine with the infighting as men in the Reformed world leap into accusations.

[@YayGrr1]

31:00 This is just sad, a declaration is something that is final. You don't declare something half-baked just to retract and edit it later. Just proof that this whole thing was done poorly, lacking wisdom, and rushed. Not masculine at all. Sad. Alright, I was making these comments as a way to have a conversation with you men, but it is just depressing me too much at this point (33:00) that people I took to be godly, intelligent and wise men of the faith can think these things, behave in this way, and say these words. I am disappointed in you all.

[@gentledove6804]

Stone Choir (on YT) has a little over 700 subscribers. I don’t think their takeover of the churches of the world is imminent.

[@stryker5573]

@@gentledove6804 Yep. This entire fiasco is another one in the long list of "boomers" hanging on to their power and narrative, not accepting any biblical challenges to the current narrative by younger men that see a problem, and telling them to shut up and sit down. They essentially attacked every young (and like @YayGrr1 pointed out, most of us are older milllenial men with families, business, and leadership roles) man telling them to be quite, listen to your elders, and we demand it. 5 commandment and all. These same men would never tell husbands to demand respect from their wives, why do they think demanding it from younger men is going to work?

[@johnbeale4164]

Antioch sin was not about ethnicity it was about circumcision. If a gentile was circumcised they were in.

[@smt0202]

Very good point, Jon Harris made this point as well

[@TheTheologizingSubject]

I saw this error in Jonathan Leemans church membership book as well

[@kpope7007]

As far as mocking not demonstrating Christian behavior, neither did Doug’s blog and James White DL which were released based on one side of the story. Yes people are conflating the two events but it’s no wonder why. The timing of this statement has made it less effective. I hope these men can humbly accept this was not a wise move.

[@Daniel-oy4gu]

In my circle there are some who think the declaration shouldn’t have been released until the Joel/tobias issue had been resolved or at least had both sides presented. The primary issue I have heard is it lacked clarity. But maybe we are just not that smart…..Joseph Spurgeon made something that I thought was a good example how to put things in a accurate but plain manner. I’m not some nerd familiar with the post war consensus. I guess I’m just too dumb to understand this statement I almost feel gaslit I want to understand but I’m having to comb through a bunch of stuff from doug explaining parts…..

[@michaeldirrim2361]

26:04 The argument that the declaration has merit because it has been met with a ruckus is fallacious. Take responsibility for the poor timing and overly insular language of the declaration. The 10 point audit from Living Out calling all churches to be loving accepting and affirming of SSA professing Christians, pushed by Tim Keller and other neoevangelicals also caused a ruckus. Was it because we were failing to “share our children” as the audit said?

[@Postmillhighlights]

This issue has broken so many brains. Men are arguing on this topic in a way they don’t for any other issue.

[@gentledove6804]

@postmillhighlights that’s one way to see that these collaborators are gaslighting and gatekeeping Christians. 🤯

[@petkocholakov7829]

The response to the declaration was a clear sign that the document was an unwise act of gaslighting.

[@Postmillhighlights]

As well as all the attempts to defend the declaration. If you have to repeatedly defend it, well, you know.

[@davidgcavada]

Joe Spurgeon has a great Declaration 📜

[@bufflegend]

Joe's post was equally trash

[@Davis_Carlton]

Stunning and brave!

[@HuttoCitizen]

@@Davis_Carlton that’s what was said about Bruce when he decided he’s a woman now

[@teamblair466]

14 likes, I’m sure you appreciate that. Here’s to 74 more, amirite?

[@izabelaganze1380]

Hi guys As a Kenyan watching from the outside, why don't you invite Joel Webbon to this conversation? The Antioch declaration men have evidently sided with Tobias as he is a key signatory so it's evidently one side against another, why not just invite Webbon to talk. You're the older men, you should show the younger ones how to disagree but the younger ones seem to be the ones eager for a sit down and the older ones seem not to want a sit down but to go on podcasts to explain themselves.

[@OneAdam12Adam]

It's a cult

[@YayGrr1]

When you sin, the natural response (fleshly) is to double down instead of admitting you have sinned and repent. Doubly so when it is public.

[@michaeldirrim2361]

Good idea!

[@lkae4]

@@OneAdam12Adam I don't consider them a cult. A clique for sure. I thought Doug was better than this because he still debates despite his status. I thought he was much more humble. Maybe he is. Maybe he's sacrificing himself for Tobias.

[@Jim-i1e]

@@lkae4 I think they imagine if they virtue signal to Big Con some of them might get invited into political arenas.

[@quinnpeterson2716]

Doug I’ve learned straight from from you that repentance needs to be as public as the sin was. I think over 11,000 people saw Tobias lying publicly about Joel and the whole reformed world is now talking about aren’t they? Why would his apology be private at that point? Genuine question.

[@TheLincolnrailsplitt]

Lying publicly? I hope you can back that up.

[@quinnpeterson2716]

@ yeah I guess at this point it just depends on whose side you take. I honestly can see Doug’s perspective- I just think it was handled poorly. If you cared about both men you should have done more to reconcile everyone rather than divide with public scrutiny. But eschatology matters has been a pretty reliable source in the reformed world and they took Toby’s video down because of how inaccurate it was. His entire video was clearly geared towards destroying Joel and his ministry. I believe that the zoom call revealed that, at the very least, Tobias was very misleading when he said that he didn’t ask Joel to exercise church discipline. It’s also pretty sad that the call ends with Joel and his church member making their points of view clear, repenting for any immaturity, and practically begging Tobias to let them know if there’s anything else he would want to see from them- Tobias says no and that he’ll be praying for them….then he goes and makes that video going for Joel’s throat like some woke mob. I think that alone is gross.

[@johnbeale4164]

A man, Joel Webbon has been slandered. If you were him you would have a different opinion. Tobias threw the grenade. You men are standing around waiting to throw the second one.

[@b.t.3406]

I have no respect for Orwellian campaigns against free speech and enablers. Men like James ‘sit down and shut up’ White share more in common with cult leaders than clear thinkers.

[@kpope7007]

Everyone should stop talking about this until Joel and Tobias reconcile. The declaration was mocked due to the timing. While intentions were good, it would have been better served had it been released after reconciliation. You shot yourselves in the foot on this one.

[@YayGrr1]

That would be best, but Tobias seems to be refusing.

[@SerenityNow22]

Mocked because of timing and content.

[@Utjb27]

Ezra Institute, Doug Wilson, and James White need to understand that their arguments and attempts at applying the word “anti semitism” to todays day and age are simply not persuasive - and that does not mean the Christian’s we are not persuaded are in sin. Shocker!

[@f4g1980]

There was no need for arbitration since Joel thought it was taken care of during the zoom call. Tobias went behind Joel and sent the meme that they had already spoken about and felt it was settled, to Doug and James.

[@Postmillhighlights]

At this point, it’s hard to see the statement as anything other than defense of Tobias. As eschatology matters rightly recognized, Tobias lied about Joel. You want to heal? Call the co-collaborator to repent of his lies.

[@michaeldirrim2361]

The timing of the release was unwise. The content of the statement was unclear. The fomenting of NQN parishioners burning the pews is ironic.

[@Anon-knows-the-plan]

Modern day pharisees concerned with solidifying their authority instead of the sheep. He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

[@pennydreadfulism]

these comments made about twitter and internet randos are dripping with condescension.

[@angeladmager7464]

At 21 minutes Doug says "the whole thing has been received with universal disdain and contempt". I'm not sure who he has listened to, but that has not been what I've heard by those who critique it. For example, Jon Harris gave a very thorough response to the declaration. The disdain and contempt has been in response to the timing, which is understandable in my opinion. But, I'm just a Christian girl who is too dumb to understand the declaration. This discussion makes me sad for the body of Christ. Why can't these mature believers see what they're doing? (which is displaying a very uncharitable way to treat brothers). To be clear, I have never listened to any podcast that was actually racist or anti-jewish in it's content. I'm not defending anyone who is that.

[@heresyhunters]

What you will find is that the charges of "racist" and "antisemitism" are never actually defined as sins in Scripture.

[@teamblair466]

@@heresyhuntersGee that’s reassuring.

[@teamblair466]

@@heresyhunters”Neither is slavery.” - you in 18 months.

[@michaeldirrim2361]

Doug is not accurate. He says the declaration has been received with universal disdain. Folks could have agreed with portions or a majority of it but instead rejected all of it. That was not the approach of AD Robles or John Harris. 21:50

[@celenawolverton8027]

I came here to say something similar. I was sad to hear him say that. I have read most people say they could agree with much. They are missing the point.

[@Postmillhighlights]

Interestingly, in a recent podcast Doug was talking about the need for 2+ witnesses. Had he held that standard here these men would not find themselves in this position. They took Tobias at his word. Tobias said he had the receipts after all. What’s even more interesting is that if Tobias does repent, he leaves these men looking even more foolish.

[@stryker5573]

Probably why his repentance hasn't yet occurred.

[@worldviewphilosophy752]

I just find it shocking that some Christians think it's justified to divide over Aristotle.

[@f4g1980]

@21:40 it was met with that disdain because of the timing and signature of Tobias collaboration not the content, which is certainly debatable.

[@NateWright-Ezra]

Excellent conversation. I hope people on both sides of the pastoral disagreement listen all the way through.

[@tesam.9296]

The timing of the release of your declaration is suspect, guys. Please watch Jon Harris’ discussion with Joseph Spurgeon, especially 1:21-1:31. Spurgeon’s declaration is very good, as well. I wish you guys would be more thoughtful toward Webbon’s group and those who support them. Jon Harris put out a very good video about navigating this issue between Joel and Tobias. He has a very balanced take that is fair to both sides and comes from a place of reconciliation. Thanks

[@Yesica1993]

I got up to 11:57. It seemed there had been events after the portion they were speaking about, so I checked the dates. This was posted 11/26. I just finished Pastor Tobias's, "Liar and Slanderer?" which was posted 11/27. Yesterday, I heard Pastor James White's take on it, "Tobias Speaks, So Finally, So Can I", which was posted 11/28. I think at this point, I do have the most current information. I was staying away from this mess. But since several channels I watch kept mentioning it, I could no longer ignore it. My problem has been that I have been locked out of Xitter for 2 1/2 years. So I had not been following this. And every time I started to watch a video, there was no recap/background. It was like coming into a conversation in the middle. There was no point even continuing to listen because I didn't know most of what was being discussed. Now, from those two long videos, I do know. The whole thing has been shocking. For a long time, I thought I was imagining the current rise of Jew hatred among professing Christians. I removed myself from Gab some time ago because of such comments. I thought I was imagining things. How horrifying to learn that I was not.

[@TheTheologizingSubject]

Many people would love to see a conversation in person on this. I love you guys and I love Right Response.

[@christianhernandez3044]

Definitely agree

[@marknolan5182]

It's amazing that in EVERY KZbin video on this matter, the comments are overwhelmingly critical of those on Tobias' "side". Also they are measured, genuine and disappointed in those who were essentially involved in the AD, which I would include myself in. Seriously when the overwhelming comments are leaning one way from people who are clearly Christian in every sense surely that should give pause?

[@thats_xrazy]

Humbly receiving this.

[@gentledove6804]

The Niagara Declaration was good; this declaration is nothing like that.

[@f4g1980]

@07:00, but that sounds like if Joel had agreed to every point you, James, and Tobias had then everything would be resolved, but since Joel and his member didn’t agree with everything you’ve said they are the bad guys.

[@roykhan2730]

Except for Wilson, any Americans? Why foreigners get involved?

[@f4g1980]

@14:02 it sounds like you all were bamboozled by Tobias’ unclear thinking in the private confidences former member had in him.

[@katherinewilliams4500]

Now I understand this whole thing. And learned so much. Thank you men. So grateful.

[@jamescook5617]

As many others have said, the AD has been partially accepted by every detractor I've listened to. Without exception they see the inclusion of Tobias and the timing as deal breakers for signing it. What DW says at 21:40 just isn't the case. I'm done. I've heard enough of this one.

[@rogerbrunk]

Enjoyed this very much. I'm thankful for Boot's and Wilson's willingness to doggedly continue (in spite of all the criticisms, which are unjustified in my opinion) to defend a statement that recognizes and identifies a dangerous idealogy developing in the Reformed Church.

[@ohio948]

You aren't being objective. Everyone involved is becoming a reproach to the name of Christ. These men included.

[@NeanderthalWoman-ou8ev]

I'm with you

[@heresyhunters]

So-called racism and antisemitism are never listed as sins in Scripture. Accusing the brethren falsely, however, most certainly is.

[@NeanderthalWoman-ou8ev]

@heresyhunters Hatred is forbidden. So is rejecting truth.

[@heresyhunters]

@@NeanderthalWoman-ou8ev Of course. And I don't hate Jews. I don't want them running my society (into the ground). I don't hate blacks. I just think they and Whites would be better off living separately. I don't hate Hispanics. I just don't want them in my country. None of that is "rejecting truth" or "hatred." Yet all of it will get Wilson and others calling me a racist and trying to excommunicate me. Which means they fail the 3rd mark of a true church. Which means they're now a false church.

[@jackieperreault4737]

I thank you, Dr Boot and Pastor Wilson, for being faithful shepherds. You are trying your best to guide and protect the church. Be assured that, despite all the angry pushback, there are many of us who appreciate you.

[@johnslagboom1836]

Great work Men! Thank you for having the courage to address these potentially dangerous trends in the Church! Somebody has to be ready to hit the beach with what you have in terms of resources and short planning time. By God's grace, follow-on Troops from God's Faithful will prosecute to victory the foot hold the Antioch Declaration will gain!

[@joeadrian2860]

Yeah. NO APOLOGY NECESSARY. This is the final word and the death knell, to me, for all the stupid anon accounts over this issue. I retract my negative and affirm the signing of this doc.

[@opsword786]

This whole thing needs to go away. This declaration is not necessary!

[@NeanderthalWoman-ou8ev]

I'm sorry, but it is. It really grieves me to see brothers, and teachers I once respected, engage in non sequiter generalizations about the Jews.

[@opsword786]

@NeanderthalWoman-ou8ev We don't need a declaration to know that this wrong!

[@smhbbag1]

:sigh: Their errors and arrogance are so exhausting

[@GraceNawon]

Really liked this discussion

[@virtualpilgrim8645]

46:25 These men reject Aristotle's belief that, "democracy can only function in a homogeneous ethnic context and outside of that is inherently unstable." Except that over 2000 years of world history since, has proved him right. Americans want to have maximized liberty and also an ethnic and racial diverse country? The two things are mutually exclusive. The history of America is ethnic conflict which accelerated since immigration was opened up to the third world. We have piles of civil rights laws regulating the interaction between the different racial and ethnic groups because it is patently obvious that these groups cannot live in liberty among each other. Do you want to live in a diverse nation like Singapore? Then you want to live in a police state.

[@austinh4709]

Grateful I have no idea what all the drama is about. Hopeful that I don't have to waste any more time on it.

[@maryg2915]

The declaration seems to be closely connected to the Hegseth nomination. Can anyone direct me to a video/blog post/statement where Wilson explains how Hegseth’s moral failings have been clearly dealt with? If you are going to prop up this man as a shining star of Christian leadership, then you need to connect a lot of dots first. And be clear about it. No need for fancy vocabulary.

[@Postmillhighlights]

I’m not on Wilson’s side here and don’t think the nomination is related at all. But it is my understanding that Pete’s pastor has vouched for him. Which, interestingly enough, is related to the Joel issue.

[@maryg2915]

@@Postmillhighlights Wilson has mentioned Hegspeth several times in interviews about the declaration.

[@YayGrr1]

@@maryg2915 It's an after-the-fact excuse, obviously.

[@stryker5573]

@@YayGrr1 Precisely. Its a way for Doug to spin the narrative about the declaration. If he seriously thinks the declaration could have any impact at all on Hegseth's nomination, Doug has much to learn about politics and the civil realm.

[@Bidur1]

Let there by a lovely solution to this all, given the fact that the faith community already has many enemies from without...

[@karenthornton6330]

Wow. Thanks. There is a lot to learn.

[@johnbeale4164]

By the end I wonder who in the world is Boot speaking too? Right now it's all about Tobias slander.

[@petkocholakov7829]

Why did you include a liar in the declaration?

[@TheLincolnrailsplitt]

A liar? Who might that be? Be brave.

[@virtualpilgrim8645]

As a Bible believing evangelical Protestant Christian, I find this controversy interesting, because 12 years ago I became white race conscious due to the fact that white people in America will become a minority in 15 years. The accusations of racism or kinism is a false framing of the situation. My views are not anti anything, but a positive affirmation of our American national identity. All Nations are defined by race and ethnicity and America is defined by White Anglo-Saxon Protestantism. Maintaining a demographic homogeneous people is simply maintaining the ethnos of your nation. There's nothing racist about it. It is merely definitional.

[@dubyag4124]

Sin and obfuscation to cover sin. Sin begets more sin unless there is repentance.

[@jamescook5617]

Come on. Doug Wilson and James White both made public statements about this controversy without naming Joel explicitly. If those comments were not about Joel but some other mysterious meme-allowing pastor then why hasn't DW and JW explained this as to make it clear that this claim that the first they're hearing of the controversy was Joel's video on the matter. So, you wrote a blog critical of Joel on the matter, and JW threatened to "name names" (both of these before Joel's video on the Tobias call), but you didn't know about it before Joel's video ? Don't believe the gas lighting here folks. Surely both DW and JW knew about the Tobias controversy before Joel's video.

[@michaelclark2458]

Honestly I am on Joel's side of the Joel and Tobias issue, but they do have a relevant point that there should be some form of declaration made on the topic. I just wish it was more unifying rather than signalling to many (myself included) that you are siding with Tobias on that matter as well. I think they made a good point that having him as a contributor or not a contributor would of lead to speculation. But what would of helped would be best if perhaps both He and Joel were contributors. It really appears to be an anti-joel declaration to those of us outside of the contribution room. I wish this dialogue as well included Joel Webbon, I am not sure if he was not invited or turned down an invitation.

[@samknobeloch503]

How about delay the release of the Antioch statement until you reach a resolution and reconciliation with the guy you accused of facilitating the rise of antisemitism in the reformed church. Doesn't take a genius.

[@dasack10]

You really think Eric Conn goes to Aristotle before Christ? Look at the actual tweet to see the QUOTE from Aristotle below his statement.

[@tesam.9296]

I wonder if you, in part, released the declaration when you did because you knew it would receive more play, get more eyes on it, draw more attention to it in the midst of this controversy. If true, I’m not sure how to feel about that.

[@dmb48333]

How disappointing. These 3 men keep stating they desire private arbitration, but you haven't initiated or responded to Pastor Webbon to actually make that happen. Action men, you need to act. Words are empty without action.

[@-RM-]

This is crux of this issue for me: 52:00. Jesus Christ is our model, not any philosopher!

[@stryker5573]

I haven't seen anyone treating aristotle like a christ figure. One other issue "boomers" have issues with. Taking truth from someone that is a sinner is not the same as declaring that individual as a god-king. No one is equating aristotle to some insanely high position like Christ holds. It's a false argument and they are attacking people with this claim.

[@Adhikpost]

Oh, sad rift between the courageous leaders...

[@ThomasTaylor-t9l]

Thanks for the forecast! I have a quick question: My OKX wallet holds some USDT, and I have the seed phrase. (alarm fetch churn bridge exercise tape speak race clerk couch crater letter). How should I go about transferring them to Binance?

[@LawofChristMinistries]

Who cares what men have to say only God’s word says

[@AJMacDonaldJr]

What you guys are missing is understanding. I suggest you begin by reading Carol Swain's book "The New White Nationalism in America: Its Challenge to Integration". In addition, I suggest you engage these men in discussion and stop trying to browbeat, condemn, and cancel them. The goal is to understand why they believe what they believe.

[@worldviewphilosophy752]

But what does "The New White Nationalism" have to do with Christian Nationalism? This is a category error.

[@AJMacDonaldJr]

@@worldviewphilosophy752 Many Christian nationalists would prefer to live with other Christians who look like them. That's why some of them are moving to the mountains of Tennessee instead of the city of Memphis. The "Democracy doesn't work except in a homogeneous society" issue also came up in this video.

[@Mamabear0629]

You guys have dug yourselves a hole, and you just keep digging. The whole thing is ridiculous and you are mostly to fault. Joel is showing the upmost integrity in all of this.

[@JAMESBOUNTROGIANNIS-n8y]

What does Athens to do with Jerusalem? (Tertullian)

[@87DAM1987]

William of Ockham destroyed Aristotillian Theology of the middle ages.

[@reachvictoria3386]

Looks like this Declaration is getting ratioed here as well as on X.

[@gregb6469]

This discussion would have been a lot more useful if it had begun with an explanation of what the controversy is about.

[@freddavis976]

When you closed the churches, you showed us that you were not the good shepherd. You were the hired shepherd who would run away. If it were the government and not some group of nebulous "randos" making noise, you would run away again. The Antioch doctrine would never have seen the light of day. Perhaps your ham handed efforts will silence them, but "I tell you, if they keep quiet, the stones will cry out." In your doctrine, you mention repentance. Give it a go.

[@NeanderthalWoman-ou8ev]

Gimme a break, they closed for , what, two weeks? Then realized it wasn't actually a life and death situation and opened up again, held public psalm sings, went up against the city of Moscow, went to jail.

[@leadinged]

Who in this group closed churches?

[@freddavis976]

@@NeanderthalWoman-ou8ev Typical female response, enter the conversation and immediately demand special privileges.

[@freddavis976]

@@leadinged According to NeanderthalWoman it would appear to be all. Over 80% of churches closed. I was thrown out of several businesses and lost my job for refusing the mask. As a result, I have a lot of sympathy for the "Randos"

[@NeanderthalWoman-ou8ev]

@@freddavis976 I was referring to Christ Church in Moscow. I believe they held parking lot services for between two and four weeks, until it became clear that the "plague" was not analogous to the local fire department alerting your church that a wildfire is headed your way and you need to evacuate. My own small church in rural Idaho closed for about two weeks. My old home church in Ohio closed for a lot longer. They had many members who worked in the local hospital and had fully bought into the fear mongering. I understand your bitterness, but please understand that an elder board closing a church for a few weeks until they figure out what's what is nowhere near the same as your company firing you for not masking. Nor is it the same as "shepherds" like John Piper who tried to make compliance a clear-cut case of "loving your neighbor."

[@philagon]

“Worldview” mention in the first minute.

[@heresyhunters]

So-called racism and antisemitism are never listed as sins in Scripture. Accusing the brethren falsely, however, most certainly

[@chrismathew2295]

It's over for you and your ilk.

[@urbanreformedpodcast7]

Yes the fight was rigged lol .. very obvious

[@mylessterrett]

Hahahahahaha

[@87DAM1987]

There is neither Jew nor Greek in Christ Jesus.

[@ohio948]

You guys have lost whatever good intention you had when starting this process. Stop being an example of moral grandstanding empty piety and repent and seek reconciliation.

[@TheLincolnrailsplitt]

What do they need to repent of?

[@markchristian787]

The declaration was poorly thought of, shouldnt have even been written, and really isnt much of a "declaration" given it only has a dozen or so names unlike the Statement on Social justice and the gospel, the Nashville statement, or the Danvers statement. Doug's still tremendous, he just needs to go back to the "No Quarter November" mindset.

[@kliniac3564]

Why is it called the Antioch declaration?

[@OneAdam12Adam]

It's another cult

[@jacobcornwell4981]

​Real helpful. That really clears things up.

[@freddavis976]

In Antioch, Paul criticized Peter for favoring the Judaizers. The camps contained Jews, Jehovah's Witnesses, homosexuals, unionists, communists, gypsies, and politicos. The group that they are worried about is the only group, by definition, which could not contain any Christians. They can not see the irony? Once again, they are favoring the Judaizers.

[@PeteJab]

It’s called the Antioch Declaration because they are using the example from scripture of when Paul confronted Peter “to his face” in Antioch.

[@YayGrr1]

@@PeteJab That's not the explanation the declaration gives. The explanation in the declarations is essentially "Real Christians will sign this, those who don't aren't real Christians." I quote: "Christ's followers were first called Christians in Antioch."

[@michaeldirrim2361]

50:45 The Moscow mood revisited.

[@LawofChristMinistries]

Stupid and unbiblical smh 🤦

[@gregb6469]

I hope the new edition of MISSION OF GOD has corrected all of the myriads of typos the first version contained!

[@oldschoolcy]

It seems that all the Joel/Wolfe/Conn/nazi memes are not sinful fans have really missed anything said here and as said either their attention is really not that great, for those who watched and did not understand a word that was said and misrepresent the people from the video in their comment or clearly they hear all of it and misrepresent them because their presuppositions in loyalty to Joel and alike group instead of Biblical truth and reality takes priority....

[@leadinged]

I am disappointed that it took 18 minutes to get to the Why of the 'Antioch Declaration'. 18 minutes of talking about some meme and personal dispute of which I and probably most could care less about. The 'other' side is just as guilty I'm sure. I have high regard for Joe and Doug. Need to separate the topics. Antioch or 'the other guy' but not both.

[@jdmcc271]

Watching this when you have no idea what they are talking about is quite annoying, please get to the topic quicker next time.❤

[@David-kd1rw]

This is very frustrating. I love the Ezra men but RJ Rushdoony was convinced the Holocaust narrative affirmed in the Antioch statement was actually a dangerous lie and product of WWII propaganda. Rushdoony is prophetic when he speaks of the evils and upheavals the false Holocaust narrative would produce downstream. The Antioch Declaration and division surrounding it is an example of this. Rushdoony’s is not a fresh take. Ezra doesn’t seem to budget for the power of war propaganda, instead they’re taken in by it.

[@NeanderthalWoman-ou8ev]

The Holocaust is one of the best documented events in modern history. We have testimony from people from all different countries. We have prison records, interviews, photographs, shoes, camps. We have an entire generation who witnessed it. Including Christians like Corrie ten Boom. We have Holocaust survivors still alive in America today. I mean what more do you want?

[@LanceJRoberts]

No he wasn't. Rushdoony only said we have to be careful on what numbers are being ascribed to it. He knew well about genocide being Armenian.

[@David-kd1rw]

@@LanceJRoberts He said much more than that. You should read his chapter on bearing false witness in his Institutes of Biblical Law.

[@LanceJRoberts]

@@David-kd1rw I think that's the section I was referring to. I've been attacked publicly in my political career for standing up for Rushdoony and his view that we should make sure we do the proper research, all framed as me saying the Holocaust didn't happen, which is just stupid. The GI's who went there and the other testimonies show us of that the death camps existed, Rushdoony just points out that we aren't really sure of the quantities of death.

[@David-kd1rw]

@ ​​⁠ I agree that it’s incorrect to pretend it did not happen. However, repeating a lie about an evil foe is to also engage in evil - I believe that was a larger point of Rushdoony. It’s also a sad commentary that our society is so numb to evil that 2 million killed is insufficient to create a stir, so the horror gets exaggerated to 6 million. The official numbers is what I was referring to when I wrote “narrative”.