The Army's Secret Weapon | ASVAB AFQT Scores

[@mehmedii7594]

Took my asvab. When I was done the guy running the test site (AF dude) was looking at me like I was crazy. He gives me the printed scores and I handed them directly to my recruiter. Turns out I got a 99. Went 92R, then 88M and now 11A. Have served alongside folks with marginal scores. Everyone did their job. The Army has a place for anyone willing to put in the work.

[@the_bureaucrat]

Lemme start by saying...I want my parachute rigged by a dude with a high ASVAB 🤣 Second, your last point about the Army being a place for anyone willing to work is spot on.

[@GregsWorkshopOregon]

I'm glad to hear you mention Project 100,000. Forrest Gump and FMJ's Private Pyle weren't entirely far fetched. 'McNamara's Folly' is a great book on the topic.

[@oldtop4682]

I served with a handful of them that somehow continued on active duty into the 90s. Mixed bag of experience there, but I don't think any of them were literate past about the 8th grade level. Two were actually really good leaders.

[@the_bureaucrat]

@GregsWorkshopOregon, thanks. Apparently that program was something of a human tragedy.

[@the_bureaucrat]

@oldtop4682, One thing I worry about is that the members of Project 100,000 who did stay in, make a career of it, and did actually lead well...they may have confused today's senior leaders. If you take a couple hundred thousand CAT4s, you are going to get a couple great ones. But by the 1990s (when todays generals were 2LTs) all that was left were the great CAT4s...the problems had long since been filtered away. So those young LTs who became generals end up thinking "Wow, CAT4s make great leaders" without fully realizing that they are only seeing the exemplars.

[@robertscheinost179]

@@the_bureaucrat McNamara got a lot of "Morons" killed. It turns out IQ tests were devised for the military by psychologists before WW l. Anybody that scored at 82 and below on an IQ test is considered to be functionally illiterate, meaning they can hardly read or write and can't do basic math, like make change or grasp basic concepts. That turns out to be 10% of the population. No amount of remedial training is going to change that fact. It's cruel to allow people into the military that are in this category; they get killed quickly and "bog down" a unit. When these tests came out and the Generals wanted to draft these guys in WW l, they said "How about we extend their training and give them special attention?" The psychologists said "You can train them all you want and they still won't get it, you'll be wasting your time." The same is true today, these people will "bog down" the military. This is especially true during a national emergency, like when you absolutely need to ramp up military force quickly because the nation is in a "live or die" situation and there's no time to be wasted on these people. I am saying this as fact and without malice towards anybody that fits this description. Just saying.

[@santamanone]

At the height of the fighting in the Middle East they also lowered standards regarding criminal records. That said, I remember one Marine recruiter talking about a potential recruit he was working with whose record included a felony offense for rape. What did he actually do to get that record? The recruiter explained: When he was 18 years old he got his 17 year old girlfriend pregnant. Legally that’s rape in most states. Do we really want to hold that against him the rest of his life? Especially considering he’s trying to enlist to support that girlfriend and his child?

[@the_bureaucrat]

I gotta be honest, the more I hear stories from folks trying to enlist, the more I think the "recruiting crisis" is really just a management problem within recruiting command.

[@bobanderson6656]

@@the_bureaucrat NO! You don't say! Ten years' ago, my oldest joined the army. He had a normal childhood (for his generation). Good ASVAB, JROTC, etc. Took him about a year to get his paperwork to the army's satisfaction and his waivers straight. For example, he was born with a birthmark thing on his scalp. We had it taken off around age 13. The MEPS people made him go back ~10 years for the pathology to prove it was not malignant. Luckily, the doctor had one done and they found it. Common sense would tell you had it been cancer, it would have killed him between birth and age 13, or so I'd think....

[@en.copedawg2321]

I know I've served with CAT IV before...almost on the spectrum even...but they could march, shoot straight and not act out...good enough for me! People have mixed feelings about a draft...I think an ALL Volunteer military is best of the best! last tidbit isI think anyone who lasts a FULL day at the MEPS deserves a medal of endurance of some sort...even if they are a CAT V and never get in...Thanks!

[@mikecrowley7486]

I'm 65 and enlisted in 1976 when I was 17. I was a Pathfinder in the 82nd Airborne. I got bored and volunteered for Special Forces.I turned 19 at Camp Makall. I was the 11b on A-746 for 2 months. I got bored again and attended USMAPS the army prep school for West Point. I've been autistic my whole life. My service exacerbated the existing autism and my life has been a nightmare since waking up at Walter Reed.

[@the_bureaucrat]

I'll say that I have worked with people who are barely literate (both in the service and in civilian life) and I think that small quantities are OK...maybe even beneficial. But large quantities might be difficult to handle. Especially, think of a West Point 2LT meeting a squad full of CAT4 for the first time in his life.

[@mefadon459]

I truly think the sat is easier than the asvab. I scored high in both, but the asvab is by far more challenging. You can pass the asvab but scoring a 70-99 is not a walk in the park. You have to be technical, practical and academically sharp.

[@the_bureaucrat]

I think that's because its easier to study for the SAT. The ASVAB starts giving you those pictures of geometric shapes and asking how they fit together.

[@darthkillhoon]

Damn, I'm CAT II with a 78. I also qualified with over 100 in each line score with Clerical and GT being the highest (116 and 115). I think there were only a handful of MOSs I wasn't qualified for. But I'm gonna submit that OCS packet in the next couple years. But commenting on the CAT IV recruitment. I joined in November of 2019 and went to basic the following February the following year but we had several ASVAB waivers who got below the 31 mark. Most of them were enlisted as 88M because that was the only MOS they could get a waver for, but I do remember 1 who went to 13F Fire Control Specialist. I would 10% of my cycle were in this CAT IV. But we had in particular almost no one in the middle for my cycle of Basic Training, because most of us were enlisted in either 68 series, 35 series or 94 series MOSs that required high scores. I was a rare exemption for being a 12N which didn't require that high of a score, but I was higher in the CAT rating. My cycle also had COVID lockdowns start while we were on week 3, but that's details. I would guess in 2020 they allowed for a larger number of CAT IV just by my experience going through Initial Entry Training

[@the_bureaucrat]

You raise and interesting point that if CAT 4 waivers go up, those folks are likely to end concentrated in specific MOSs.

[@quitequiet5281]

13F is no place for a cat IV... 13B can be acceptable as the guns are a team and the teams are drilled into high performance and the FDC does the math so long as the information and verbal or digital relay of the information is secure and the work is being overseen. The liability factor is too great and the consequences are potentially dangerously unmeasurable. I can’t say it doesn’t happen because it does... But the consequences are more expensive than presence of a body who requires additional work and consideration. The FO ends up with a RTO that can’t do the work but just carries equipment. The supported unit ends up with a overworked support NCO and no back up... Which a good NCO is going to create a workaround and “over instruct” the available cat 2 and cat 1 11B’s whenever possible in both the 9 lines and the call for fire procedures particularly looking for those who have previously been RTO’s at some point. This is actually a very good thing. But it should be a good thing that naturally occurs and not a necessary stop gap measure by soldiers forced to attempt to out engineer stupidity. Stupidity can not be out engineered. It can be recognized and given appropriate tasks but is it really a good idea for the stupidest person to be loading the trucks or changing the tires?... Seems simple enough and then you recognize that everyone is reliant upon the logistics and the weakest link wherever it is... is likely to cause consequences. When you look at a hundred terrain sketches of a particular OP... ... you will start to recognize the consequences of low versus high quality... The high quality terrain sketch will often provide awesome information and a rudimentary knowledge of the procedures and a working radio dialed to the right networks means that the cat IV can use that sketch and be effective as could just about anyone... Always be suspicious of the terrain sketch where someone has torn off a bottom corner and put their own name on it. LOL On the back of the terrain sketch the subsequent FO’s are likely to have put their names and dates to the back of the paper in pencil as they upgraded and improved... or damaged and confused the terrain sketch as however the case maybe. But I am aware of cat IV’s tearing off other peoples names and putting their names on work that’s not theirs. The fact that they think that they can away with this... ... and most often they are absolutely allowed to get away with it... Because it’s like a small child claiming that the dog got into the cookies in cookie jar on the shelf in the cabinet... LOL But when there’s a gaggle of these geese crapping everywhere fouling everything up... they may as well as be saboteurs and agent provocateurs because the consequences are the that detrimental. Choosing which battles are worth fighting and when to resist rolling your eyes and laughing out loud is important. I often make mistakes in this regard. I consider it a bit of a character flaw but I like the principle of it. I once spent a thousand dollars to win a five dollar bet... I took the bet on the basis of the principles and having proved my point was rewarded with people involved folding when I needed to point out reality. It’s always important to understand what your priorities are and what your willing pay, sacrifice and suffer through. There are some fairly simple tasks in the Field Artillery which are appropriate for cat IV’s and can be performed perfectly by the simple minded. In fact certain cat IV’s might be better at certain tasks than a cat I and cat II as they might be bored out of their minds after a mastery of procedures, processes and protocols whereas the danger, excitement and drilling processes... is a dynamic action with a crescendo effect every time. The familiarity of process and actions can be calming, soothing and reassuring to certain people in the cat IV range. The Army is poorly structured and organized to facilitate having even a idiot savant on staff... A “Rain Man” in every division would provide the staff with some interesting possibilities and wonderful time saving opportunities... But the handlers of the “idiot savant” and whatever quirky quirks needed to be compensated for would create resource and manpower issues disproportionate to the advantages... ... the sheer volume of teenagers still in their moronic moron phase of development is bad enough and already part of the system. Everyone regardless of their IQ and the more mysterious emotional quotient has been or is a moron... it’s a simple fact of humanity. Morons don’t recognize that they are morons because they are morons. Once they have enough real world experience to recognize that they have been being moronic morons they are finally transitioning into maturity... everyone is useful and finding that correct niche for individuals is possible on a case by case basis. But the military does not typically work on a case by case basis. The exception to the rule is rhetorically recognized as a thing but often not recognized no matter how many times its tripped over again and again... and that’s by people who are in the cat I and cat II range that grew out of being morons long ago. We know for a fact that human error is a real thing and yet we have not created bureaucratic processes to recognize the fact that human errors occur and when the system experiences a hiccup... There’s no automatic double check to see if a human error has occurred. Often because politically people want to make decisions based upon political agendas, political influences, political manipulations, self interest, self protection and ambition related issues. So certain things are knowingly selected for even though people know it is wrong. Decisions are sometimes made not based upon facts, details, evidence or reality. They are made based upon social engineering agendas, political agendas and bureaucratic bureaucracy paperwork that wants certain numbers and the bureaucrats involved... ((( No intention and no relation to a particular insightful and brilliant Bureaucrat who is a obvious example of a exceptional exemplary positive contributor that shows why bureaucrats are a necessity and desperately needed. Absolutely no offense intended to present company. ❤))) Whom simply want the boxes checked and the numbers within the acceptable parameters regardless of how this effects things in the real world. Things in the real world are not their problems. Often this role is performed by narcissists, sociopaths and narcissistic sociopaths and or narcissistic sociopathic social engineering networking networks which placed into the position to serve the intentions, agendas, purposes and objectives which can not be expressed in writing nor publicly verbally mentioned. Alas such is sometimes reality... Counting the beans and having the right numbers, types, colors, weights, percentages and distribution patterns are their all consuming concerns. Unfortunately the Army is not staffed and structured to facilitate recognizing the untapped potential that they possess in part because of the political appointments and social engineering manipulations. It’s a simple fact that 10% of the population makes any situation dysfunctional. The extra work and consequences for having to safeguard, monitor, correct, clean up and cover up... it’s simply not worth it in a multitude of situations and those situations should be mapped out and understood. The other exceptions should be noted and where and when appropriate after confirmation and vetting processes those openings being filled by cat IV’s competing for those positions in a all volunteer force would be appropriate. It’s the 21st century and our bureaucratic bureaucracy processes can not implement a simple human error protocol to protect against a known factual common problem... human error. If the system is ever upgraded to catch human error as a matter of process... this issue would not be a matter of National Security and pose a very viable threat to National Security. No amount of engineering has ever been successful at protecting against stupidity... Intelligent people recognize that they don’t know everything and have doubts. Dumb people believe that they do know everything and that they are competent. We need hard wired and soft methods of human error recognition but within our institutions and systems. One of those Ancient famous people once said... “I fear our mistakes more than the actions of the enemy.” Pericles i think it was... but i might be wrong.

[@Zulutime44]

When the draft was initiated in 1917, The US Army was shocked at how unfit the average draftee was, esp those from urban areas. This phenomenon is not new. In my BCT experience in 1961, the Army was so desperate for warm bodies (Berlin Crisis) they would take almost anyone, fat or thin. One trooper in my platoon had special boots to accommodate one leg being much shorter than the other.

[@the_bureaucrat]

I LOVE this comment! The brass loves to carp about the "average American isn't fit for military service", but that has been a problem for over 100 years. In fact, it almost stands to reason that it will always be true.

[@bobanderson6656]

@@the_bureaucrat They're not 'fit'?....isn't that what the physical and mental aspect of basic training is supposed to rectify? Asking as a taxpayer that supports the military, especially the enlisted ones.

[@kroberts8866]

It's a great indicator to watch for with all the recent veteran writing to congressmen over recent draft shenanigans. The political tool is a tripple threat to conflate a draft for crisis with obligatory service (which would be great for DoT NOT DoD) but the uglier agenda is abusing the draft topic to build yet another layered central registry. The desperation is there, the Guard today is so much an active force now that going active duty makes little sense. I know for my local little veterans pool that it has shifted our advocacy routines this last year.

[@the_bureaucrat]

Good point...The role of the Guard has changed so much and had such a dramatic change on the way the Regular Army functions.

[@grinch45]

There are two reading parts and two math parts to AFQT and determines if you really applied yourself in high school with four years of math and English. No way you are faking it. After joining, they use general technical (GT) as your basic indicator of apptitude.

[@the_bureaucrat]

"No way you are faking it"...👍

[@rodeleon2875]

when i did the asvab for the AF in 1980 i scored low 80's to low 90's. i can't even remember any of the test but somehow i did really well and i was a lazy, mediocre student at best. when i got in electronics/computer school i struggled bad to pass. i still think that somehow my asvab was scored incorrectly. but it set me up for a lifelong career which i just retired from so no complaints from me.

[@the_bureaucrat]

One of the mixed blessings with the ASVAB is that it measures "aptitude"...not what you know, but your ability to learn. The twist (and this seems to be what you ran into) is that it doesn't necessarily measure "drive"...there was a years long effort to develop a different test that focused more on that issue of "drive", but I think it eventually petered out.

[@AsusMemopad-us5lk]

Funny how “volunteers” means the ones who get paid, in the military context!

[@the_bureaucrat]

It is a decent question of whether draftees would get paid as much.

[@Clownlife432]

Very insightful

[@the_bureaucrat]

Thanks.

[@oldschooljack3479]

Scored a 95 on my ASVAB when I took it in high school back in the 90's... I had recruiters coming out of the woodwork. 😆 No idea what my AQFT score was... 30+ years ago... No idea if I could even find out now.

[@the_bureaucrat]

I imagine it's on the original paperwork, but most likely lost to the sands of time.

[@raymondjoseph7177]

If you're taking this test, you better do the best you can. 20 yrs of service. Retired now. Over that time I've seen many many enlisted wanting to become Warrants or Officers. Had to retake the test multiple times to increase their scores. Some might think, no big deal. I'll keep taking the test till i score high enough. It's 6 months between tests, so fail twice and that's 1 year lost. In 1 year you could've been wearing a bar on your cover if you scored high the 1st time. Not to mention while you're trying to advance into the Officer ranks you'll still need to work on your enlisted requirements for promotion. Those requirements increase as your rank progresses.

[@owensomers8572]

Yeah, but there is only so much studying will help. I had the good fortune of scoring Cat 1 in high school, and did make the military a career. But I was bugged by a kid we had in basic training, he had an ASVAB waiver, all 4 of his Air Force ASVAB rankings were below 30th percentile. Great kid, everyone liked him, he did all of his tasks well and contributed. But he had to take a reading comprehension just after the 3 week point as he did poorly on our first test, ended up testing with a reading comprehension below 3rd grade and was separated. I only found out later that in the active force, if an individual doesn't do well on testing, but did the job satisfactorily, commander's had the authority to waive the requirement to pass the Career Development Course.

[@the_bureaucrat]

That's a good take on "Up or Out"...keep pushing Up.

[@wompa70]

Grading by comparison rather than to a set standard has all kinds of caveats, good and bad. As the abilities of the test takers in general goes up and down so does the quality of people at any given score. A cat 2 in 2020 might have been a cat 1 or cat 3A in 2010.

[@the_bureaucrat]

That is a good point. And it sticks in my head that from time to time, the services want to rebaseline the scores as the American population changes.

[@lelandgaunt9985]

A lot of senior sergeants fell in that low percentile, especially the 12Bozo’s.

[@marianotorrespico2975]

--- ABSOLUTELY TRUE! . . . Yes, THAT m.o.s. sure does attract many construction-worker wannabes who pretend to be soldiers 'til E.T.S. so that they can then apply to be "a state trooper" and pretend to have been "grunts in the shit".

[@marianotorrespico2975]

--- CORRECT! AND SO UNCLE SAM CREATED "The Lifer" . . . the Trump-type bullshitter without a CIB or a combat patch, but maybe a drill sergeant patch.

[@the_bureaucrat]

@lelandgaunt9985, at one point I tried to look at the AFQT scores of senior NCOs to see if the data supported your point. The problem I ran into was that many NCOs retake the ASVAB as they progress thru their career and so some of the ones who were low percentile when they entered have raised their score by the time they make MSG. So I was never able to confirm or deny the point.

[@kurtrussell5228]

I scored an 86 on the ASVAB......I think I'm a little smarter than the average bear, but far from among the smartest.

[@the_bureaucrat]

I always thought the profile picture was a ruse. 🤣

[@TokyoJoe3]

Bring back SQTs.

[@the_bureaucrat]

👍

[@marianotorrespico2975]

--- CORRECT, EITHER YOU ARE A "Go" or a "No go"; either you are qualified or you are unqualified.

[@Moto-foody]

Totally agree 100%. The Army is the only branch that doesn’t test MOS skills, they’re more interested in people who can run fast, not think critically.

[@marianotorrespico2975]

@@Moto-foody --- CORRECT. SOMEBODY MUST BE FED TO THE CANNON . . . which is why one usually does not meet many Republicans, either in The Infantry or in the enlisted ranks of the other combat arms.

[@oldtop4682]

Bring back Pro-Pay as well! Showing my age, but that went out when I was a PFC. It was tied to your score on the SQT. Seriously though, the Army should have MOS testing again. Something similar to the SQT/SDT is definitely in order. The problem is who writes the manuals and tests. This is normally done at the school house, and my experience was that the office was staffed with civilians mixed with folks who didn't make it as instructors.

[@leeshelton8023]

Last yr the numbers were low but it has been reported the numbers are higher than last yr. CAT 4 must be deployed

[@the_bureaucrat]

"CAT 4 must be deployed" touches on a spooky Catch 22. The military can't pad their numbers with CAT4's and then just not deploy them, but then that will mean more deployed CAT4's which comes with its own set of challenges.

[@leeshelton8023]

@@the_bureaucrat deploy not in the typical sense but adding more and more cat 4s. Last I heard in a speech in elp tx more large numbers enlisting are Hispanic. Would that be a cat 4?

[@frankdemith3849]

Instead of the Draft maybe our country should consider Mandatory Service. There also were special programs that recruited folks in all categories including CAT V.

[@the_bureaucrat]

I tend to agree. Mandatory Military Service means that we would end up with a lot of folks who are really not appropriate for the Military. And public frustration would be directed at the military instead of spread more widely across government agencies.

[@mr.stotruppen8724]

Guy in my company has a 160 GT score. They had him screened for autism after that.

[@the_bureaucrat]

That seems like the natural response.

[@SammifromMiami]

I had a 152 GT score. Army sent me to Russian language school.

[@mr.stotruppen8724]

I got a 140 and all it's ever earned me is some weird looks from leadership on the rare occasion they happen to be looking at my ERB. I never took the DLAB and I've never been in a field where they needed anyone to learn a second language.

[@Moto-foody]

The draft needs to be completely taken off the table, forever. I served 22 years as an 11B and I’d rather deploy with less volunteers than a unit at full strength (110% is Army standard) of draftees. I’m sure some would have integrity and do a good job, but I can’t take that chance so I’d prefer to serve with professional Soldiers who wanted to be there. I had to laugh at your part about raising test scores. I had a Soldier go to BSEP twice and his scores actually got worse. Dude was a great Trooper who worked his butt off, he was just dumber than a houseplant. He’s still in and will probably retire as a Corps CSM. 😂

[@the_bureaucrat]

@Moto-foody, I'm going to tie your comment to one from @frankdemith3849...Frank makes the point that "Mandatory Service" is better than "the Draft". And with that in mind, I think your point about taking the Draft "off the table" is insightful. We should never get to the point that we require people to serve the nation AND make it so that they can only serve in the military. It's like it creates a pressure cooker effect that turns the public against the military and squeezes people into the military who REALLY REALLY don't belong.

[@Moto-foody]

@@the_bureaucrat Now I’m not against some form of compulsory service, say like the old Civilian Conservation Corps or something similar to the Peace Corps but stay in the US or outlying territory. I’m sure Puerto Rico or the USVI could have used a large, organized, government mobilized group of manpower to assist with recovery efforts after their natural disasters. I live in the Pacific Northwest, our state DNR and the US Forest Service could really use some help with these darned wildfires.

[@lowdrag82]

Keep in mind, the AFQT is just a score of how well you did based on everyone else that took the ASVAB. This is why you can never score a 100, because you are factored into the average. With that said, the ASVAB, is not a good predictor of IQ or intelligence. It’s literally in the name, it’s a measure of your aptitude to determine your ability to be trained. The Air Force composite score measure only 4 areas, Mechanical, Administrative, General, and Electronics. The most impacting area on the AFQT I the General area. The General area is derives its score from English, Math, Arithmetic reasoning, vocabulary, and reading comprehension. The Air Force makes the Electronics and Mechanical areas are separate because they fit the most critical areas of why the Air Force enlisted for exists, and they need to know what your current aptitude is to possibly place you in a E or M role that is aligned to your current ability to be trained. The M&E composite scores have little impact on the AFQT, but represent the highest demand jobs for the AF. The ideal enlisted candidate for the AF has a high M&E score and decent G score to fit into about 80% of critical fill AF jobs. Finally, the ASVAB is just 1 category that is weighed to qualify for service. Physical, mental, dependency, credit score, law violations, citizenship, education, vision, color blind, hearing, medications, illegal drug use all factor in to determine if an applicant can join and which jobs they are qualified for regardless of ASVAB. Meaning you can have a 99 AFQT, but can only be qualified for a small portion of jobs because of medical, credit score, drug use, or law violations.

[@the_bureaucrat]

Good point. You highlight an even sharper dilemma for the US because their military is so dependent on financial health, morality, and physical perfection.

[@charlessedlacek5754]

Joined for 4 years, 1980 to 1984. Scored 125 on my asvab, was offered ocs but turned it down REPEAEDLY. I actually saw and served with people that could be called borderline morons. Anything below 110 is not good. It is also referred to as a "GT" score.

[@rubenrichardson5866]

99 is the current max score, 110 means nothing now

[@charlessedlacek5754]

@@rubenrichardson5866 true, but that was 44 years ago.....everything changes.

[@oldtop4682]

The GT score is still calculated and used. There's always been confusion between the GT and AFQT. You need a GT of 110 to qualify for OCS for instance. Unless this has changed in the last couple of weeks. The AFQT is also used for this. It's important to remember that the ASVAB is not an IQ test. It is designed to measure your ability to learn a job based upon your reasoning and abilities (developed yet or not) . Those category scores are also vital to what jobs you may be offered. The GT is a combo of certain of those other scores, but not all. There are breakdowns of all this on line if you want to Google around for them. Also, some history of the ASVAB is kind of an interesting rabbit trail to run down.

[@tickles5289]

NO ONE CAN SCORE A 110 ON THE ASVAB. IT ONLY CAN AND EVER HAS GONE TO 99. THE GT SCORE IS A SUBSCORE! YOU GUYS ARE FUCKING IDIOTS! "GT" STANDS FOR GENERAL TECHNICAL..

[@the_bureaucrat]

See? An amazing number of different subscores.

[@momosgarage]

I’ve always seen this as ass-backwards. Based on my experience, both the median and lower ASVAB scoring individuals were far more likely to adapt to the nonsensical aspects of enlisted military life, craved the harsh structure, were less likely to question or challenge bad leaders, are more interested in re-enlistment (rather than going to college and coming back as an officer or going warrant), less likely to request or apply for training/schools, and in general seemed to allow themselves to become institutionalized. The armed forces should do the opposite of what they have been doing, to maintain an “all volunteer force”. High ASVAB scoring individuals should have the most limited job options or in some cases only be allowed to apply to OCS, Direct commissions or warrant. But this would mean making AIT longer to accommodate for slower learners, and beefing up the Judge Advocate General's Corps to deal with increased disciplinary issues. However, in return, the result would be a more biddable and dependent force, for those ranked as an E-1 through E-6.

[@FrederickMalley]

Smarter people complain, have FOMO for not going to college and generally have options better than the military

[@the_bureaucrat]

@momosgarage, I think you're on to something here. First, it makes sense that folks closer to the middle of the distribution would be more conforming. The military is more likely to be a good deal for them. Second, (and I never thought about this) why on earth would the military LET a high AFQT scoring person take a job that could be filled by a lower scoring person?

[@TennGrizz]

CAT 1 , Infantry Retired

[@the_bureaucrat]

There's a surprising number of those types.

[@JamesKonzek-xr5zy]

How does GT/AQFT score equate to IQ ? or does it?

[@the_bureaucrat]

The big difference is that IQ scores have a Bell Curve shape. An IQ of 100 is "average" and each set of 10 points represents "one standard deviation from the norm". So there's fewer and fewer people with IQs the farther you get from 100. With AFQT or GT, you have the same number of people with each score.

[@centex7409]

Changing the current approach to those scores would require the United States to completely change how we approach all warfare.. It would also require the American People to be much more accepting of large numbers of casualties in attrition warfare. The current U.S. approach to warfare is extremely sensitive to casualty reduction of our forces. Ask any forces that ever fought Americans after 1990 what it's like.. It is like facing aliens from space with beyond comprehension advanced weaponry and techniques. You cannot wage war like that with even average intelligence and capabilities.. Of course there are low capability roles in the military, but those roles don't give American defense contractors the kind of projects and budgets they need to give shareholders the yields they demand of the sector. So here is the brutal and moronic reality: The United States empire is trapped in an inescapable Zugzwang of it's own corrupt making. We cannot sustain the technological edge we held for over 50 years anymore. Tech proliferation and the implosion of the American education system insures the problem. China and Russia are both caught up in many sectors and now exceeding our capabilities. See things like hypersonics and especially in air defense, ATGM's and several other critical issues. The west combined cannot even produce enough artillery shells for Ukraine, with Russia ALONE now out producing the West by magnitudes. Our technological edge was supposed to easily counter Russia in Ukraine.. Instead it's been quickly exposed the emperor wears no clothes in the west. And the American People are in no mental state to face a war with thousands of our personnel dying per week for months to years on end. We'd collapse into riots if we lose more thsn a few thousand in a month.. Much less with Ukraine level numbers. So our model of war is utterly unsustainable, and we cannot hold together as a nation to sustain attrition warfare numbers nor have the defense corporations back away from the wunderwaffles all you can eat budgets.. Eventually, we will find ourselves in a proxy conflict just like Russia is with Ukraine.. And it will break us.

[@the_bureaucrat]

Zugzwang...That is a powerful insight into American polictics.

[@jesusthroughmary]

I thought it was IIIA or higher to enlist without a diploma

[@the_bureaucrat]

I did too...I think that some of the services try to "boost quality" with that one.

[@charlesharrington9116]

IMO as a former Sr. Drill Sergeant and a stint as a Recruiter, we have no room for CAT IVs or below. Every E-1 thru E-4 must be able to think independently in the absence of supervision, make rational decisions and have enough common sense to do the correct things. Every able-bodied American, male or female of age should be registered for a draft. All Americans should have skin in the game and feel sacrifice regardless of income or social status. "Thank you for your service" just doesn't cut it. Bone spurs should not disqualify you for military service but allow you to become Commander in Chief. Perhaps a test which measures common sense and maturity would be in order in conjunction with academic aptitude. A person who pays their taxes, obeys laws and is productive in society is a Good Citizen. A person who sacrifices in many ways in service of their country and fellow citizens is a Patriot.

[@marianotorrespico2975]

--- THANK YOU, SERGEANT . . . for the plain-speech common sense explanation of how our society functions. Yes, everyone must have skin in the game.

[@the_bureaucrat]

@charlesharrington9116, I like what you are saying but how do you square the idea that CAT4s and below shouldn't be in the military, but they should register for the draft?

[@charlesharrington9116]

@@the_bureaucrat They can be placed in positions in or out of the military in a form of service that does not jeopardize other soldiers' lives.

[@chuckyxii10]

Im a SSG, Ill take cat 4 before woke any day.

[@the_bureaucrat]

What about a CAT 4 who is Woke?

[@chuckyxii10]

@the_bureaucrat I didn't realize there were any woke that smart. Smart ass comments aside I actually don't put much stock in standardized testing or IQ, it's OK as a baseline but specific judgement should always be used if you really want to understand someone's intellect. It goes both ways, if you manage to score high on a test but are dumb enough to fall for something like woke you still dumb.

[@DanielsPolitics1]

Is it also called AQFT, or did you just get it wrong lots?

[@the_bureaucrat]

I think its the Armed Forces Qualification Test, but AQFT rolls off the tongue smoothly...

[@santamanone]

@@the_bureaucratI remember the ASVAB. I think that rolled off most easily as it was a true acronym forming a pronounceable word.

[@garysimpson7326]

Looks like a substitute for IQ to me.

[@the_bureaucrat]

Pretty much. The slight difference is that the military is trying to sift out "aptitude" rather than "intelligence". For instance, the SAT wants you to know what the word "Exuberant" means...the ASVAB wants to know if you can learn what it means.

[@josephwarra5043]

"The pink hair and the pink berets should tell you everything you need to know about today's "woke" military." -- MR

[@the_bureaucrat]

🤣

[@DanielsPolitics1]

7:17 I’m gonna guess 19.9%.

[@DanielsPolitics1]

7:40 I was wrong. 40%.

[@the_bureaucrat]

Yikes!

[@FirstOfTheMagi]

I be me is Cat 1

[@the_bureaucrat]

Some of the most miserable Service Members seem to be CAT 1

[@haveaday1812]

FTA

[@the_bureaucrat]

Don't worry, they do a perfectly fine job of f'ing themselves.

[@juliusarnold2844]

Excellent video. Saw what happened to the GWOT generation with moral waivers, this is even more terrifying. 🥔 🫡

[@the_bureaucrat]

Good point about the moral waivers. Those too will be used.

[@juliusarnold2844]

@@the_bureaucrat I saw a moral waiver troop break someone’s teeth out with a saw barrel muzzle brake after they said something unkind about SpongeBob SquarePants. These people were operating on a different mental plane.