The art of following trends & the “Min Heejin style”

None of the adults in this situation are doing what they're supposed to
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#NewJeans #뉴진스 #MinHeejin #hybe #ADOR #아일릿 #ILLIT #kpop #kpopopinions #kpopcommentary #kpopanalysis #choujimi

[@Chuu_Vault]

Somebody free the girls of NewJeans and Illit, like chile they don't deserve to pay for the sins of the heads on top of their company.

[@JanakiVPillai-kf9kv]

What sad is the possibility of the girls, both newjeans and illit, suffering just because the "adults" couldn't figure their shit out 🤦 What do you mean that they'll put Newjeans on an 18 month hiatus!?!??!??

[@DumiNihi]

I'm pretty that's not true and someone just said that

[@vulamnguyen9453]

@@DumiNihi CEO of Hybe Park Jiwon said that to NJ's parents. You think the parents made that up? They put NJ in 18 months hiatus to find "producer with grammy award" LMAO.

[@Farystille11]

​@@vulamnguyen9453 min Heejin said that he said that. Don't switch things

[@Farystille11]

HYBE literally made a statement saying that it's not true but y'all pretend that it never happened

[@wavzone]

@@vulamnguyen9453 That's most certainly not what was said. The parents of NJ said hybe told them it'd take 1.5 years to find a grammy producer, and they wondered if njs would be on hiatus for that time. Hybe said this wasn't true and said the girls would go on a normal hiatus after their tour and comeback, because they'll not only have to find a producer, but they'll be finding new staff for ADORE as well. Not to mention, the girls have most likely gone through a lot by this point... a small hiatus would be extremely beneficial for them to heal from the trauma of everything that has happened. Do you people seriously expect them to go right back to work after all of this is done?

[@bopete3204]

I think the "lesser artists borrow, great artists steal" line is about how great artists overtake their influences by simply executing better. That's what he means by "steal". The difference between borrowing and stealing is not about resynthesizing rather than copying, but about copying and then improving upon the idea such that the original is displaced. It's a view that's very far away from the modern copyright system.

[@chelleange1s]

ive said it a bunch of times, but my problem with illit’s debut is that it’s visually boring. yes they probably would’ve been accused of copying nj bc of the anime avatars in ‘get up’, but i would’ve loved to see belift put actual effort in illit having a magical girl concept. the outfits, hairstyles, makeup, visuals are just soooo normal… they needed to do more visually!

[@albarr953]

Something more like IVE's Accendio MV and some of the photo concepts for that mini album would have been great for them, visually speaking

[@heyyalandon1985]

yesssss like people kept saying Illit's concept was "magical girls" but I just could not see any of that over the lack of vibrance and concept in them

[@auliamate]

agreed! like its so minimalist, especially while newjeans as chou said, is completely maximalist. they just have a very intentional application of that maximalism. these magic girls are not magicing. aespa is also super maximal, but in a application that is just as intentional, but differently approached! illit needs some BOOM, some POP, a dash of WOW. my magic girls did magic for 2 seconds and never again in the magnetic mv😭

[@cbuniac]

this made me realize how ambiguous illit’s debut concept was for me. the concept of magic/super power girls came across but in retrospect it didn’t really travel further into that concept. the magnetic mv had the girls in a slumber party scene, them in a closet, and then in coquette outfits and at the time I didn’t really understand what was happening. though, now I wish they could’ve went beyond what they released and did more! maybe that way they would’ve been more distinguishable as a group (not saying they aren’t already) and that the illit and newjeans comparisons wouldn’t be so present.

[@cheesestixk]

Omggg we have the same pfp 🤭‼️

[@chelleange1s]

agree with ur whole section abt why newjeans’ career has been so successful. it’s that massive attention to detail within newjeans’ creative direction that makes everyone so hooked on them. even to me, ‘get up’ was lackluster in terms of solid creative direction, but it was a visually pretty album! i feel like the only groups who’ve actually done a good job following in the footsteps of their creative direction are ive, aespa, & especially xg!

[@chelleange1s]

+kiss of life!

[@akuhappy3246]

Agree

[@SOOJINSOK]

Agreed

[@nayeonchantix]

I have a weird perspective as someone whose creative work has been plagiarized, but, oddly, I do agree with you. If my work had to be plagiarized, I wish the guilty party at least did a better job at it.

[@choujimi]

Yeah I shouldn’t have been as playful/joking about the term plagiarism - content should always be transformative and with reference to any original creators when necessary, never just directly stolen from other people

[@nayeonchantix]

@@choujimi no no you're fine! I agree with you. Don't worry

[@AIVILO_444]

One thing i’ll say is that i think if belift wanted to do a magical girl concept, they should’ve gone all in with it (like IVE’s Accendio). Bc like the visuals in the mv were so boring to me and I think if they had more of that bombastic magical girl whimsical visual, it would’ve separated them enough from newjeans

[@choujimi]

I agree! I think this is want I was looking for out of their debut, I wanted them to go all in on the mystical concept that was showcased throughout the promotional period

[@9115__xo]

chilee that one viral tweet about newjeans that said "the girls are 16-20yrs old they know what they're doing." is some dangerous ass work going on there. kpop stans love to pick and choose when to standup for minors in the kpop industry.. insane☹️

[@ive_zerob1rose]

The main issue I have is that this whole “plagiarism” issue seems to be the only thing that people care about when the issue we should be addressing more are the accusations of illegal activity that Min Heejin has been accused of which includes allegedly sharing confidential documents with share holders, embezzlement, media play (which isn’t illegal as far as I’m aware but could fall under defamation) and sharing private information about idols and trainees private lives and health. Personally, I don’t see ILLIT as being a copy of NewJeans because both groups have different concepts. It’s clear that NewJeans is more Y2K inspired, have more RnB influences and in their most recent album took inspiration from the drum and base genre and alternative/indie music. Their main colour palette as a group consists of bright greens, blues in varying shades, lots of white and some bright colours like yellows or pastel pinks which can be seen in Super Shy. Their styling is more relaxed and Y2K inspired. ILLIT have a more dreamy and whimsical concept in my opinion as both super real me concept teaser and the debut mv show the girls having their own super powers. Their sound so far has been influenced by french indie music, pop and some would even say lofi. Their styling is more frilly and child like, almost princess like in some stages and their colour palette mainly consists of whites, pastel blue, pastel pinks and purples (from what I can see in the music video and the live stages) The choreographies are slightly similar but not outright copying. The hand movement is lucky girls syndrome was first done by GFriend (as far as I’m aware) and that was long before HYBE acquired Source Music. Personally, I feel like this plagiarism issue is mainly Min Heejins way of diverting attention from what’s actually the more serious and important thing that we should be talking about which are the allegations that have been made against her. These allegations, if found true, could destroy ADOR and make them disappear as a company and I don’t think HYBE would want that. They own 80% of ADOR’s shares so ADOR’s success if also HYBE’s success.

[@choujimi]

I keep waiting for more information to be revealed about the whole case at large, but I definitely agree - if MHJ is guilty of what she’s accused of, it would make sense why ADOR is making the existence of ILLIT out to be such a big deal at whatever the cost, and not really considering/caringn how much hatred this is bringing on ILLIT

[@footballfan7791]

their album teasers are similar to new jeans ,their concept photos pre debut, the hanbok photoshoots (angle and position). new jeans has done things in lo fi genre: asap , get up . new jeans has a wide variety of colors some of which illit is similar to , new jeans by new jeans experiment with some of the same sounds illit is using. they also pulled to much influence from new jeans killing cheroes . this means they are the most memorable moments, in the parts of a song. even though new jeans didn't event these moves they popularized them and integrated them within their own song in thier own unique ways . they popularized these choreo and are known for it. illit directly takes to much inspo from new genes. Furte evidnece is that newjeans try a variety of genres :Attention - Hip Hop Soul Hype Boy - Contemporary R&B / Electropop Cookie - Contemporary R&B / Footwork Hurt - Bedroom Pop / Contemporary R&B Ditto - Baltimore Club / Contemporary R&B OMG - Atlanta Bass / Trap Soul Zero - Atmospheric Drum & Bass / Contemporary R&B and not to mention all of get up and the remixes. Here is newjeans singing the magnetic ai cover. kzbin.info/www/bejne/raeapqWGfcR7rcU

[@bbi2.052]

I agree omg

[@sheeshstick3614]

​@@footballfan7791 discrediting the black community who popularized and invented those choreos was a nasty work. why do you think MHJ and the parents still doesn't file a plagiarism claim or mistreatment claim when they have one of the top entertainment lawyer? it's because they don't have a solid ground for case to claim that's why they want to stay at hybe. I think most people forget the fact that plagiarism is a law and it has a legal definition, you can't claim everyone copied you when you also copied it from earlier releases.

[@rikiswife2704]

​​@@footballfan7791What newjeans album teaser are you referring to?? Newjeans only release mv teasers, and not all mv have teasers, if you meant highlight medley, or visualizer, newjeans never release those either, other than few clip of ditto mv that you can say a visualizer but they didn't title it as that. Regarding the hanbok photoshoot, it's a common thing in kpop to release a photo in hanbok, TO CELEBRATE SEOLAL, about the angle too, I've seen a lot of gg doing photoshoot in hanbok with similar angel such as gfriend and twice, based on your argument that mean newjeans is the one plagiarizing them, because they did it first and it's already popular in their era. The color issue, hey, it's a color. Newjeans are known for bright color that has similar vibe to y2k, they're known for colors they used in newjeans mv (green, pink, purple, green, yellow), while illit are mostly pink, white, pastel color, not too mention they're also different in styling too, illit is more coquette, they're all about ruffle, dress, bow, and stuff like that, while newjeans has y2k style, and it is what they're known for, and for choreos, i have to agree on that, they did take inspiration on newjeans killing part throughout all their songs in their career, but they didn't do it only with newjeans, they also did it with le sserafim and fromis_9, all hybe girl groups, so i take it as paying homage to previous hybe groups, since now they're taking the title as ssera, newjeans, and fromis_9 sister group. But hey, that's just me, i respect your opinion regarding that. Regarding the music genre, illit just debuted so we can't really agree on what kind of music style they use, but for now it's clear that their music style is more focused on lofi, dreamy music, and i agree, newjeans did that with cool with you etc, but newjeans are known for trying a bunch of music style, experimenting with a lot of music style, but still the most music style they did is 2000ish pop, and rnb, and that's what they're known for. So illit might take inspiration for newjeans, but it can't be called plagiarism, because out of all the music newjeans released only 4 (cool with you, asap, get up, and ditto) of them maybe that is quite similar to illit, and that genre of music has been in kpop for a long time, if that's considered plagiarism, then newjeans also did plagiarism because they're not the only one that popularized that style of music. I agree that illit might take inspiration from newjeans, but i don't think these are the one that illit take inspiration from, especially when those argument are used against illit making people bully and hating on them for copying newjeans. For me, the part that i think belift lab took inspiration from mhj, is the art style that is used in super real me promotion, and the art style in soumu audition post that is based on mhj creative ideas, for me those are the only thing that is similar. But if there's more, please let me know, I'm open to a discussion

[@brunetteartist2750]

I do think there's also a space for lesser "deep" work in music Like every song doesn't need a lore build like ditto, but the reason illit fell into this whole plagiarism thing in the first place is bcs of the derivativeness of their entire concept They are not fully coquette, they aren't fully magical girl, they aren't fully etheral, heck they're barely y2k. Obviously one can mix and match trends, but illit's team didn't fully commit to anything or Frankenstein an aesthetic which is why they feel derivative. Heck even take ive's recent album or even yuqi' solo album. Despite your personal opinion on music and aesthetic chosen, there is a full story packed into it ;which honestly even super real me does to some extent, which makes the entire half assed vibes if creative direction even worse. Like yall had something good. I see the vision. It's not getting utilized fully but i see it. I can only hope they do better in the next comeback, if only for the sake of the girls and their own profits. Tbf maybe now that they have time to settle with the group might also help? They were formed on a survival show which although had some form of "rigging" is different from building a group from ground up. Also they lost a member in btw so i won't be suprised if behind the scenes was a mess. Im only hoping they getter their shit together in the future

[@choujimi]

Yeah definitely! I don’t think every song needs to be incredible complex in concept, and kpop benefits a lot from that not being a requirement

[@auliamate]

i feel losing a member was such a mess for be:lift too, because it left them with 5 idols, just like newjeans. and while OBVIOUSLY THIS WAS NOT INTENTIONAL, having the same number of members would only make similarities more obvious in like, choreo, because you can only have 5 people dance in so many ways.

[@brunetteartist2750]

@auliamate exactly lmao, for me some photoshoot examples being called copyinhg is a bit like??? Its 5 girls, there are only so many ways you can pose them

[@schininglossofhope5184]

i think what particularly scares me is that most of the girls from both groups are extremely young and have dropped out of school to pursue being and idol but because of the mess the adults have made they risk losing all of that it's very terrifying to put myself in their shoes, which is easy to do cause i'm around their age, and constantly being in a state of fear for your future not knowing what is next for you because the opportunity that you thought would set you up for life is what ends up destroying you i feel like not enough people talk abt this particular layer when it comes to this whole situation and i wish they did i honestly hate hybe for taking their passion then doing things that make ever sacrifice. every choice meaningless illit doesn't deserve this new jeans doesn't deserve this no one ever deserves to lose their career cause of their company's irresponsibility

[@jjongssaeng]

newjeans haven't dropped out of school btw

[@chelleange1s]

also i think if illit had a different lineup, we would’ve been seeing fearnots claiming that illit is copying them rather than newjeans.

[@ruininghu6378]

what is your problem? why are assuming things here? Fearnots are way smarter, and we know what plagiarism is.

[@albarr953]

7:42 You know? Hearing that, it's even funnier because Hybe already has a great example of attention to detail, that being TXT. So they are capable of doing it, they just didn't completely do that for Illit, for whatever that may be (Personally, Illit have a great chance to expand and create a more detailed groundwork for their concept in their 1st comeback and I sincerely hope Belift takes that chance and runs with it. They are a new group, relatively speaking and they should have all the opportunities to grow into something even greater. I need the adults in this situation to get their heads out of their ass right now and start doing their job)

[@soralution]

Heyooo I actually wanted to contribute to the discussion regarding this, my apologies if this counts as hate, I don't intend for this to be straight up hate towards TXT and the rest of the creative team involve in txt's creative 💙💙 also note that TXT is in my stan list, but as I'm currently boycotting any hybe releases for personal reasons, I decided to restrict myself from streaming any TXT release till then so my memory is a bit iffy lol. hope this comment can be a great diving point to go deeper :DD As much as I do agree TXT's lore is insanely creative, I feel like TXT's story needs to also be fully utilized. The most recent example of where this story was cut in corners was with their current release with the deja vu mini, the teasers were sooo grand and magical but when the final MV came out, to me the full MV felt like it did cut out a lot of dialogue of txt's story in which personally I really did want to see how deja vu connects to the whole plotline of TXT I feel a much better example of hybe going big with a group (...or I say multiple groups cuz both group's storylines intertwined with each other) are enhypen and their Japanese counterpart in &team! I find that those stories get more properly realized because both of group's stories connect together (ig also cuz both of them make use of multiple forms of media that being music, mvs and reading material aka webtoons/Wattpad stories) I feel that having multiple pathways for enhypen and &team really did strengthen both group's potential for artistic greatness :>>> Again my apologies if this is completely irrelevant or taking this message as me hating on txt's storyline. Txt's story is amazing just that I wish it got even more fully fleshed out 💙💙

[@moonlightrecords7975]

I can't believe HYBE is a former self of Bighit. Back in 2019, BTS had boys with love for being bright concept with an upbeat song. G-friend had a drama-like concept with Crossorad sounding like an anime opening and finally TXT with freaking Blue Hour. All of these concepts are so different from each other under the same company. Bighit had creativity back in the day. HYBE felt like a machine plumping groups with no passion. LSF following trends, new jeans/ Liliit situation, Enphyen concept decline in quality, boynextdoor/tws having both similar concept. The majority of current hybe groups lack of identity. You can't be convinced that BTS's hip-hop concept was never made if they debuted today. HYBE would have given them a genetic Y2K concept. Like what happened HYBE? I hate Min Hee-jin but she has a point about the system being flawed. How much Illit look different if be:lift was an independent label?

[@albarr953]

@@soralution Don't worry, you were very respectful and I like discussions, so thank you for the comment! I agree that sometimes TXT doesn't get to explore their lore in more detail lately (I believe a big part of that is that we haven't gotten any Star Seekers MV in a while, the last one being Frost, which is a shame, because I belueve they could have done an amazing lore MV for Farewell Neverland but I digress) I love Enhypen and &Team and I'm so glad someone mentioned them. Admitely, I have a problem with a certain female character, but that doesn't completely retract me from enjoying their lore. It's fitting that the groups with connection/link themes are themselves connected through their lore (and for more reasons related to their characters but I don't want this comment to be longer than it is already😂) Also, The Grey City webtoon is amazing and I need everyone to read it, even if you don't know about their lore. If you like found family and being emotionally devasted in the best way possible, go read it, I guarantee is worth your time

[@devourerofmedia]

not a bunny, not a fan of min heejin but you cannot deny that she has a clear singular creative vision and will execute it; that i think is what makes her such a good creative director

[@cobblerpudding6292]

I think the strangest thing about this is Belift/HYBE’s refusal to admit NewJeans/Ador were an inspiration to ILLIT yet refuse to give any proof of how they are not similar conceptually. At this point a lot of Ador staff and even NewJeans’ parents have come out stating specific similarities of ILLIT to NewJeans yet Belift hasn’t released one statement on how they are different. If they didn’t copy it should easy to deny the accusations however they know they did copy and can’t refute the claims. How did they think this situation was gonna play out? It was VERY stupid to attack MHJ publicly right after she issued a plagiarism claim they should have handled it internally and then did whatever they needed to. Now ILLIT is getting backlash for a concept they didn’t even plan themselves.

[@hola_terry]

I do agree that kpop should be getting better at following trends and lacks a lot creatively. but.....be-lift and illit are not one of them, infact they are probably the one group who have done justice to taking inspiration from min heejin. Everything from styling to choreography to concept and sound is actually creatively and cleverly crafted different from new-jeans. New jeans are happy bubbly girls with everything around them being deep and dark and yet they are bubbly and happy. On the other hand, illit girls have a sense of sadness and contemplative vibe from them even though everything around them seems pretty normal. New jeans are optimists and illit are contemplators. Everybody else who have tried to copy new jeans(like nmixx for 2 of their comebacks) have only done it through asthetics not concept. Meanwhile only illit is taking everything seriously. lastly, the similarities between the japanese girl groups of early 2000s (for eg-speed) and new jeans are more than the similarities between new jeans and illit. The style that min hyeejin has claims to be hers is borrowed "directly" with extreme attention to detail and that exactly what is illit doing . So putting min hyeejin in the "greater artist" category and be-lift lab in "lesser artist" category is extremely misleading. (I stan new jeans and not illit but still this is what i feel about these things).

[@choujimi]

I think I’ve changed my mind and come to agree with this since posting this video- ILLIT’s concept adaptation was definitely transformative. There’s a lot more that BE:LIFT could’ve done to just “steal” from NewJeans, and I think I was a little too harsh on them in that way I mentioned later in the video that the individual aspects to ILLIT as a group are not that reminiscent of NewJeans in isolation, but when looking at both groups in full view and considering they’re “labelmates” under the same corporation, the similarities start to feel overwhelming - I think that’s where a lot of my judgment was coming from

[@hola_terry]

@@choujimi I get where you are coming from. I mean, copying also depends on context. (i.e timeline and environment). So min hyeejin even though they have more similarities with early 2000s Japanese ggs. Does not come off as extreme copying bcz they are taking risks and trying new which was not tried amd tested. But for be lifet lab it's like they are just taking safe turn and doing things from a currently very popular thing. So may be that's what you are also trying to say..I guess🤧🤧

[@starcheryy]

I think that newjeans have a refreshing sound that sound simple compared to the noisy music trend however newjeans' music is NOT underwhelming many companies and " tiktok " artists have tried to make newjeans' inspired music but they fell flat due to their focus on simplicity instead of focusing on not underwhelming their audience without being " noisy "

[@Jia37]

I don't like mhj as a person...but she is a good creative director since her sm days...she really cares about her art..she uses weird marketing tactics(media play) too esp. with Njs and it works for her..I also see why she got angry, worried because of illit.she is a smart, creative woman but that's it....😆 Edit-kpop stans have gotten worse and worse from last years...they are ruining everything there is too much toxicity and hatred..let idols breathe its 2024 why are we going backwards....

[@carolinesch.]

I am really suprised that nobody brings up fifty fitfys cupid when talking about illits debute song, sure I thought about newjeans but mostly cupid when listening that song

[@chelleange1s]

this isn’t me disagreeing with u, but this is for one my own hot take! i actually don’t like newjeans’ more “indie” side that they’ve been doing as of late. their brighter, y2k side that they debuted with (although not unique) feels more refreshing than what ador has them doing at the moment. +i just think it suits the girls’ 100x more! i’m not saying they can’t experiment, but i do kinda wish in terms of creative direction they stuck with that. i wonder if they had, would illit & other groups even be receiving the amount of hate they have now?

[@chelleange1s]

it’s also so interesting bc if you’ve looked at mhj’s past works, she obviously enjoys the more “vintage/indie” side rather than the “sleek/y2k” side. ofc her old works DO contain elements of the latter & if u look closely, newjeans’ still adds unique elements from the 2000s but yea…

[@cobblerpudding6292]

They unfortunately couldn’t stick with it because as we can see too many people are copying that concept. People have already gotten tired of it. MHJ knew this which is why she said they will keep doing new concepts and to always keep an open mind. The K-pop industry follows trends wayyy too closely and NewJeans would’ve gotten burned for staying in their same concept since debut because of how influential it was

[@cobblerpudding6292]

It’s similar to How Olivia Rodrigo switched her concept after SOUR even though the project was so influential because she knew people would get tired of the same old thing and that people would copy her and it wouldn’t be uniquely her anymore

[@boredbeck]

I've been saying this over and over (that Be Lift DEFINITELY wanted/was instructed to create Newjeans' copy), but I don't think most people would get what you're saying. Artists would get why it is a clear copy. MHJ definitely took inspiration from 90's ---- especially Jeans from Mexico, Speed from Japan, and 90's genre Shibuya-Kei, but she took something from the past and made it "Newjeans Style" if you get what I'm saying...they made it their own. And as you said, yes, every artist takes inspiration from what came before them, but its hard to make people see who are only in the KPop bubble and never really seen any musical groups or artist outside it (it still weirds me out to say "concept" which is a very KPop thing)

[@ignaciotorovillacura6342]

Bro any group with young women that makes cute minimalistic music is copying NJ for some kpop fans. The same was said about blush and that isn't a song that NJ would release. If people can't recognise the originality of those groups then NJ concept isn't original because it would be more distinguished from the rest of "copying attempts".

[@MoonMontag]

2:09 I agree with that man, that’s the things she’s a great artist. 7:58 AGREEEED like her work with F(x), red velvet and SHINEE everyone still talk to it 10:32 not defending MHJ but she clearly stated that “it’s not the kids fault it’s the adults fault and old men” in her press conference. 11:32 it’s sad that the artists are the one suffering and it’s even sickening when I see people defending the companies like huh!? Why are you defending HYBE OR BELIFT OR ADOR. This video is definitely something everyone need to see. How can I tag every kpop fan here

[@Parik367]

I feel like this whole hybe/mhj situation would have never happened if illit had completely different concept/music...mhj would have been removed easily because illit copying njs is one of the biggest part of her defence...also she should have step down from ceo position and still be the creative director now I think they are going to Remove her completely....also still don't understand why belift chose that concept for illit knowing njs is only a 2 year group..and this will affect them both...

[@hestergnu6627]

Enjoyed the vid. Stravinsky’s quote reminds me of similar rhetoric in a vignette from Julian Rosefeldt’s brilliant film and art installation, MANIFESTO, in which Cate Blanchett instructs her art class: “Nothing is original. Steal from anywhere that resonates with inspiration or fuels your imagination. Devour old films, new films, music, books, paintings, photographs, poems, dreams, random conversations, architecture, bridges, street signs, trees, clouds, bodies of water, light and shadows. Select only things to steal from that speak directly to your soul. If you do this, your work, and theft, will be authentic. Authenticity is invaluable; originality is nonexistent. And don’t bother concealing your thievery - celebrate it if you feel like it. In any case, always remember what Jean-Luc Godard said: ‘It’s not where you take things from - it’s where you take them to.’”

[@mailtorevathydr]

I accept about Illit & Nj Concept choice, but the fight is one side (HYBE) talking about money & Ador/MHJ talking about coping.It's more like both are working in 2 universes.

[@gabrielaaraujo4124]

For average listeners and non stans like me, they r practically the same and thus the hype to get to know them dissipates

[@a.a.6789]

I just saw a video called Jennifer Lopez downfall of an ego by Clarissa C and a part of it reminded me of the situation here, Jennifer is Illit, Mariah is NJ and the weirdo man there is bsh here.

[@alexandragabitto2573]

This is exactly why the K-POP industry should NOT be debuting minors when the adults alone have proven that they are this ridiculously incompetent. K-POP is literally the product of an old American music industry model that was repackaged in order to suit Korean audiences. Plagiarism scandals happen ALL. THE. TIME. in the music industry and the fact that they still managed to fumble this entire debacle THIS. BADLY. is just beyond me. It’s absolutely ridiculous! I personally think that MHJ is a person who is weirdly fixated on controversy and should not be in charge of the wellbeing of literal children. Is she a trendsetter? Absolutely, but yo like XG just released a “controversial” snippet of their new MV that managed to punch up instead of punch down (a member shaves her head, it is verified to be real, the concept is female empowerment, conversations are being made about cultural appropriation and the various generalizations made about female Asian idols, THIS IS HOW TO USE CONTROVERSY PROPERLY.) Why is it so difficult for this woman and HYBE as a whole to do the same? Like ILLIT, Le Sserafim, AND HYBE groups are already under fire for their encore stages. Where. is. the. PR. team???? ☠️☠️☠️

[@angelakiprevski7352]

I love your vids a lot and this one is no exception! I think people can "copy" or "plagiarize" newjeans all they want, but no one will ever hit as good as them when it comes to that sort of debut. still, Illit's music worked for me and I was surprised at how much I liked it on first listen. I think that Be:lift can keep the music but switch up their visual style, something more on the lines of early Oh My Girl and Lovelyz would work so much more and would put some distance from their newjeans comparisons.

[@auliamate]

i feel ILLIT really should be able to improve on their comeback after Super Real Me and expand their concept. Now, not every kpop group needs to be like NewJeans or the SM Universe with enough lore to write the book on it, but the concept needs to be fully thought. I also believe BE:LIFT and HYBE need to differentiate ILLIT from NewJeans more. Where they took inspiration from is way too obvious, and they gotta stop borrowing and start stealing. I personally think Min Heejin is a very good creative, but a legitimately horrible person. Damn shame too. And the audacity of some knets to attack ILLIT or NewJeans where the blame is solely on HYBE, BE:LIFT, ADOR, and MHJ is UNACCEPTABLE. Y'all really think Iroha or Haerin are evil masterminds like GIRL PLEASE they don't even have songwriting credits AFAIK 😭 LEAVE THEM ALONE, AND SUPPORT THEM!!

[@awts..7954]

i hope u can make a review abt tripleS cuz i think they fit well into the discussion of also being accused of plagiarizing nwjns while also having a strong concept from being inspired from them in some way

[@Jia37]

Also after bts..i have noticed that new jeans are like the only kpop group where people from the west especially music critics (who don't like kpop) include them in there lists..its very rare for kpop groups...njs might not be the greatest but there music is perfectly balanced for western,kpop audience and something different in kpop..i don't connect with there music but i have to give ador their flowers... Edit-also fifty fifty too but i don't want njs to end up like them..

[@bopete3204]

I have very complicated feelings about NewJeans' artistic depth. I love Attention, but I don't connect with what comes after because I think I feel a dissonance between the voice of MHJ and the voice of the members. MHJ is obviously a much more sophisticated and experienced artist than the members, and I can't get past that disconnect in more conceptual MVs like Ditto and Cool With You. I think on some level, the medium of Kpop is the wrong one for what MHJ wants to accomplish. The strength is Kppp is capturing the essence of a single concept. It is a more surface level thing, but it still takes skill. I've never wished that the What is Love? MV would have a more developed story under the surface. And so when judging Illit's debut, I think it's solid. I think the post-chorus of Magnetic is a well-executed moment of fun with a touch of quirky. Midnight Fiction is a song I really like, and Lucky Girl Syndrome provides some overarching group narrative. It's similar to how I feel about IVE's Switch, where Heya has good catchy moments, Blue Heart is the core theme, and WOW is the song I really like. Are these EPs going to win a Pulitzer like DAMN? No. But I'm not sure Kpop idols would be the ideal face for that type of writing. At the end of the day, I respect the skill of MHJ, but I don't connect with her overall vision for NewJeans since Attention. I find her sensitivity about imitators to look insecure. Imagine if Doja Cat was worried about others making songs too similar to Say So. I think if she's confident in her artistic vision to have more depth, she should expect to rise above naturally. Instead she's complaining that the biggest girl group in the world is mistreated and that the NewJeans brand is diluted by Illit. To return to the Stravinsky quote, the great artist would steal back what lesser artists try to take instead of complaining. I think copyright should really only be protecting small fish from clear theft that impacts their career prospects.

[@footballfan7791]

wha tthe fuck. you dont listen to newjeans you slutshamed them bitch. ditto has a clear message and so does omg bitch who the fuck are you. there is no narrative to illit you moron

[@Dadadu499]

I’m sorry but can someone explain to me what these two groups have in common? I clicked the video because I wanted to understand what this min hee jin style was but the author kept repeating that illit is unmistakably inspired by nj but never made examples…so I’m still puzzled….and “minimalism with attention to detail” really doesn’t explain a lot to me 😅😅 llit dressed elegant pink or lolita/doll New jeans dressed y2k/hip hop early 2000 style Illit music is vaporwave Nj is more hip hop r&b(?) Illit is gonna develop throughout their comebacks an illit universe much like bts’, so all their comebacks are connected (they are already hinting at the girls having superpowers) New jeans stated that every comeback would be completely new and unrelated to previous ones and that there will not be a new jeans universe Illit concept with super real me is claustrophobic everyday life opposed to parallel dimensions where you are a different and better version, and dreamworld where everything is like you want it, I don’t know of any nj concepts similar to this… They look and sound so different to me…why are they getting compared? I’m asking literally why on an artistic level are they similar?

[@moonaestheticly8597]

I'm so glad I found someone who is thinking the same as me. I just don't get it??? For me ILLIT is the friends I sat with for lunch in our cuter looking pastel clothes with glittery jelly clips and overactive imaginations. NEWJEANS were the girls on the table on the otherside of the hall who we knew and were friendly with but dressed, looked and sounded different to us. We had similar looking hairstyles because we went to the same school with the same dresscode, not because we copied one another...

[@Dadadu499]

@@moonaestheticly8597 what a cute explanation you did XD

[@lobotomars]

wanna know an artist who steals it all the way and does it good? JADEN JEONG. i don't fw him but he stole from mhj's purse and then worked to make it his own, establishing the triples sound. hats off

[@aeeeeeeeecid]

The main issue I’m having with the plagiarism accusation against ILLIT is that if you bother to look at ILLIT’s creative directors works, they are very much similar to ILLIT’s concept. I think it’s unfair to say their creative director didn’t put effort into their concept, it’s just a shame that Min Heejin and her have similar creative processes and aspects. And I think Min Heejin also has a distinguishable style, so even if someone where to copy here, you are able to tell this work was done by her. So really, I would say both groups have similar vibes, but they clearly have a distinct concept.

[@matinicky6444]

then the question is why did belift hire illits creative directore who has such a similar style to mhj??? because they wanted another newjeans for themselves that's the problem

[@clarissaaliee]

​@@matinicky6444 Exactly this. Sometimes, companies hire people who can replicate the work of other artists, intentionally. Take Lesserafims most recent album, for example. It's likely not a coincidence that half the songs on it sound very similar to recent pop hits. It's not that the creative director wanted to plagiarise NewJeans' work per se. It's just likely they were only hired because they had a similar style.

[@gemmamoon5998]

ILLIT isn't even framed as just "evil." The girls are framed as the epitome of everything wrong with k-pop: talentless dolls puppeteered by cynical companies. And while the "cynical companies" part is certainly true, these girls aren't talentless. Perhaps undertrained, but nothing that can't be improved with time. Yet they are being mocked for their weak singing and even for their visuals! People are criticizing Yuna for "looking old," spreading around photoshopped photos of pre-debut Minju (implying not only that she got plastic surgery, but also that the NewJeans girls didn't, which...lol), and complaining when Moka speaks Japanese. Not to mention they *bully* the girls for their lackluster vocals (a criticism as old as K-pop). This problem stems from the fact that netizens are viewing the ILLIT girls as a lesser version of NewJeans. They're praising NewJeans as everything good and pure in the world, while ILLIT are their ugly stepsisters trying to stuff their feet into NewJeans's glass slipper. The same girls they were praising at debut (comments praised Moka's stage presence, Wonhee's visuals, Minju's and Yuna's vocals, Iroha's dancing) are now the butt of every joke. And it's the adults' fault. Min Heejin for giving validity to vicious attacks against the girls, Be:Lift for their lazy choices, and HYBE for being an awful working environment.

[@Vicky00581]

I Think people passed judgement too early with the belift new gg. They Just entered the scene. And I like to see more releases from a group To form an opinion about anything really. I can totally imagine them further developing a whole girly, magical universe with alter egos and super powers. I wouldnt even be surprised if they develop actual characters and a whole storyline. But who knows what the label is going to do. But they are going to be more careful, i suppose, to shield them from more allegations and keeping them alive in an industry that can be way too hateful. I hope so. Honestly, they are too cute and girly for my taste but i will check their future releases. ✌️

[@pierrethibodeaux4408]

yeah i think as you said, people like newjeans because they put in a lot building up concepts that feel well thought out and all the elements of their comebacks reinforce that concept in some way. I think a group like IVE is also well known for having strong, complex concepts (LOVE DIVE drawing from greek mythology while visually reflecting a preppy schoolgirl/mansion aesthetic which interacts with, but is not identical to their overarching rich girl aesthetic) whereas LE SSERAFIM has interesting concepts and visuals that don't really suggest much depth. You've argued in the past that TWICE's recent lack of conceptual/thematic depth is harming their artistry and on the other hand, I think that NMIXX's recent work shows not only a variety of concepts, but a level of thought to them that people like picking apart, sinking into, thinking about long-term, rewatching and supporting. i believe fans nowadays want their media to mean something EVEN WHEN they say they want easy listening, fun music-- kpop successes have shown us these are not mutually exclusive. unfortunately, less work will always be cheaper for a company than more work :|

[@goldyd144]

(WARNING; Long read 😅) The root of the problem that I believe causes the confusion between both groups is that the individual members lack individual brands yet. MHJ very intentionally and meticulously branded NewJeans based on their concept, music, and aesthetic. She also put herself at the forefront of the group as the visionary for their creative and musical direction. She's the most recognizable "member" of NewJeans. This doesn't mean the individual members aren't popular. They are! Yet, ask the average non-Kpop fan who still likes and recognizes NewJeans's music (as they are a viral success in non-Kpop spheres, after all) who the individual members are, and most won't know. To the average person, they're the Y2K group of 5 young girls with long, dark hair who sing music that is nostalgic. So naturally, when ILLIT comes in, and they're 5 young girls with long dark hair who sing music that is nostalgic, it raises an eyebrow. On the surface, it's plagiarism, especially when you bring up a few dance moves, formations, and photoshoots. Yeah, there are similarities, but I think if time went on and ILLIT established themselves more, they would have the opportunity to flesh out their concept and aesthetic to differentiate themselves more from NewJeans's. Plus, if they pushed a few member's individual popularity (at this time, it seems to be Minji and Wonhee), then the "plagiarism" claim wouldn't have as much strength as it does now. I question Be:Lift for recruiting a creative director for Illit that is so similar in vision to MHJ. With Be:Lift now pursuing a defamation case against Ador, I'm curious to see how this pans out. If MHJ is fired, I personally want to see the individual members of NewJeans start to become the forefront of their brand, since it's clear that Hybe won't have too much trouble replicating their sound and aesthetic. I do think Hybe can replicate it; it's just obviously not going to be to the same success. So naturally, the members will start having to carry the concept instead of the concept carrying the group. I think, subconsciously, _that's really_ what people are afraid of when it comes down to the potential (imo, imminent) firing of Min Hee Jin.

[@kiolio5406]

It’s so annoying how people are trying to say that hybe hasn’t copied newjeans aesthetic and image for illits debut… like yall really out here discrediting the artwork and uniqueness of newjeans.

[@my_voice_in_the_wilderness]

Nice video... though I prefer Oscar Wilde's “Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery that mediocrity can pay to greatness.” MHJ has many faults but she excels at creative direction. For me, the core issue is that the copying of NJ's concept came from within the Hybe corporate structure. If Belift Lab was an independent company, MHJ could complain about the copying but it should be easier to accept (at least to me). Note: concept and style are not protected by law so there is no plagiarism here. Jst a case of copying these elements.

[@soralution]

Ooo yesss when you "steal like an artist" it definitely makes any piece of art stronger 💪💙💙💙 not just the tools like pens and pencils but also figuring out why nj's story fits into society to also make illit stand out

[@HetaliaLovino]

Another great video! I really found your thoughts on the topic very insightful.

[@pmmcrn]

wow, love your thoughts

[@annad_d]

18 month hiatus? ya i dont think nj is coming back :(

[@soralution]

Ooooo that intro ate!! 🫶🫶🫶

[@jacki8106]

Great video once again! ❤❤

[@DumiNihi]

I agree with your points but personally i never saw newjeans in illlt i saw more of old loona.

[@soralution]

Also i remember seeing your comment under a similar video to yours (i think it was nctiddy's vid regrading this concept but ofc from a designer's perspective) and im so hapoy you're also doing a vid like this 🫶🫶🫶🫶

[@dilfculture4414]

i love that your disclaimer in the beginning but i hate that people are so mindnumb that the disclaimer is actually necessary

[@gabriellesamuda4457]

Bro not the intro! 😂

[@Lainellim36]

Imagine being creative team behind illit,,, and then u moved out from belift, apply to another kpop ent company,,, would that new company impressed by your last work? No respon from belift creative team really confirmed that hybe wants that mess happen,, GP can't even differentiate these two groups. And where part look magical in illit concept? The kids just got normal / cute clothes

[@moss8678]

you should do a video on little winters! she’s an artist inspired by newjeans and pinkpantheress and though she has been succesful, it has been very slow for her. could you explain as to why that may be?

[@HectorH-M]

I don't listen to these two groups, so I'm indifferent

[@zarraf69]

"I'm not blaming the girls, what did those innocent kids do? Who I'm blaming is BE:Lift lab, why did u copy our concept be:lift lab?" -Min Hee-Jin

[@Kermitt_thee_frog23]

As much as I hate mhj I do need to give credit where credit is due. She may not have invented these trends, styles, aesthetics, etc but what really makes her work different is that she puts love & care into her work. I feel like the industry these days are too scared to actually branch out or try something different/risky, so we end of with projects that lack passion. But at the same time, groups who have decided to take that risk have been quite successful (ex: new jeans, Midas touch, etc). Also I feel bad for both new jeans & illit. They’re being forced to step up all because the adults around them are acting like toddlers.

[@Anshul-Bharat]

please make a video on jyp's new boy group NEXZ

[@frostywire5045]

This title is pretty dumb, imo. The concept of “plagiarizing” being done in a better way is like oxymoronic. Taking inspiration or basing a concept heavily on something else is great, but plagiarism by definition is anti creativity and artistically would take you nowhere. Just a little peeved by the phrasing and I can how it’s just for clickbait but I can’t help myself to comment

[@choujimi]

Yeah, definitely - I mentioned this closer to the end, that the end goal of all of this should be to encourage transformative content, and it wouldn’t be considered plagiarism by that point, but I agree that I shouldn’t have been so playful with that term with throughout this video. I think by the end all of these discussions going on in kpop, I’ve become desensitized to the fact that actual plagiarism exists and is a problem separate from what we’ve been talking about all this time

[@kurokurt5477]

ok i dont know if anyone will agree or even get what i mean but i will say it anyway 1st the music 100% not "borrowed" its "stollen" acording to that quote (u get what i mean) but what u said about illit promoting like new jeans i have to say no. they do an lolita concept like newjeans jup the mv is made with new jeans mvs in mid 100% but they promote more like le sserafim thatn new jeans. new jeans/MHJ loves the 15 mvs in 7 songs shit. illit didnt do it like new jeans they made there debue with magnetic and did an bside mv 1 week later (i think at least could be 2 as well) that keeps interest high just how we saw it with le sserafim (does enhypen do it like that too ? i dont listen to bgs) i mean u can say some promotional things are like new jeans but why wouldnt you use tactics that worked for your other groups flame me in the comments i guess

[@yao5650]

I disagree with you, you have yet to tell us what was plagiarized? Like break it down for us frame by frame, because at this point you’re just throwing out words. When I first saw illit, I didn’t think nj, I thought anime girls. Like cute magical girls you would see in an anime. That is not the same as njs imitation of Japanese y2k aesthetic.

[@strawberryrecipe]

same!! i really just want examples because i’ve seen people mention theses apparent copies but ever examples mentioned

[@lydelen6377]

Bear with me but I think one of the few new groups that shows as much care as newjeans in concept visual and music are boynextdoor. I see in them the same attention to detail and incredibly strong identity. Other 5th gen groups blend more in the background

[@sheeshstick3614]

​@@lydelen6377 boynextdoor or even TWS was definitely closer to newjeans concept-wise. let's remember that the ILLIT plagiarism claim by mhj wasn't planned because they only started the claim as early as March 30 when the meeting with investors to usurp Ador management was in February and the fallout between Bang and MHJ was in December 2023. I think MHJ went with ILLIT rather than BND was because Bang produced ILLIT's music and doesn't have any involvement in BND's discography. and I also think Magnetic's success was one of the factor she used them. she's targeting Bang.

[@yamatonadeshiko567]

Agree with this that's why him saying "denying reality" made me raise my eyebrow because I found that line really childish. People will always have differing opinions about this so called "plagiarism drama." There are people who find both groups similar but there will always be people who will disagree with that opinion or accusations because they also have their own reasons as to why they find the concepts of both groups different, and it's not always about "defending Illit from unnecessary hate." I also don't find both groups similar in terms of concept, aesthetics, songs, styling. NewJeans styling is more Y2k sporty, more well put together and sexier with all those black bralette top or bandana tube top they wore in Attention. They also use the brighter shades of the colors green, pink, blue. They have a more western vibe. Illit on the other hand has a more childish and whimsical styling with all those baby doll dresses, bubble skirts, ribbon headbands and too much frills. Even in Lucky Girl Syndrome where they wear more casual clothes, it's still more casual and childish than anything NewJeans wore. They also use white, pastel colors like baby blue and purple. Their aesthetics have a more Japanese vibe.

[@intearnet6926]

👍🏽

[@Airia16]

Your explanation of NJ's minimal yet maximalist production makes me think... maybe that's why ILLIT's debut felt empty to many people? They managed to miss both ideas. "Magnetic" seems to have felt more manufactured, unlike New Jeans' more authentic and relatable approach with "Attention." They made it a little TOO minimalistic, but also failed to make an initial connection with people. Minimalism and just a pleasant sense of simplicity are so different. I feel like ILLIT is finally starting to break through, but the timing with the entire HYBE vs Heejin battle will likely hurt them even more. I'm more curious how ILLIT's producers/directors will take the input, and whether they'll fully lean into the magic girl concept or change course. It may be cruel to say, but this is such an intriguing situation

[@ruininghu6378]

mhj copied 90s Japanese girl groups, like word for word, bar for bar... she is far from being a great artist...