The Art of Political Power, with Robert Caro and William Hague

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Filmed at Church House on 27th October 2015.
Every industry has its guru. And when it comes to the dark arts of political statecraft, the American biographer Robert Caro is the mentor politicians turn to for guidance. His biography of President Lyndon B. Johnson has been described as ‘the greatest insight into power ever written’. Caro is revered by presidents and politicians on both sides of the Atlantic. In the US, his fans include Barack Obama and Bill Clinton. Here in Britain, his life of LBJ is George Osborne’s favourite political work and has been read by every MP and wonk in Westminster.
On October 27, Robert Caro made a rare appearance in London on the Intelligence Squared stage. He was joined by William Hague, the former foreign secretary and leader of the Conservative party, and himself an acclaimed political biographer. Hague quizzed Caro on the nature of political power. How is it built and preserved? Where does true political power lie? With our elected representatives, or shady figures behind the scenes? One of the most powerful operators ever, who never entered public office, is Robert Moses, the man who built modern New York City. Moses is the subject of Caro’s Pulitzer-winning 1974 biography 'The Power Broker', now published in Britain for the first time. Described as ‘a majestic, even Shakespearean, drama about the interplay of power and personality’, the book offers unparalleled insight into the use and misuse of power.

[@aaroseha]

It's amazing to see how gracious Robert Caro is with his audience. The amount of time he prefaces his answers with "I don't know"... gosh, his intellectual humility is just so genuine! I would think that I pretty much knew everything there is to know about LBJ and Moses, if I had spent my entire adult life studying about them the way Robert Caro has. Yet, he treats every question as if it's the first time he's heard it, like he's really happy someone asked him the question. Truly, a great biographer.

[@philpembroke5373]

When sb says ‘they don’t know’, maybe, they mean that they don’t know.

[@vkmetz]

I don't know what information storage and retrieval will look like in 500 or 1000 years, but I hope his is the work that survives the centuries like Thucydides or Livy.

[@vkmetz]

@@philpembroke5373 And in cases such as RC, "I don't know" often means that the question calls for conclusions/determinations that will be subjective...but as to documented fact and provenance and method, no one's in a better position to know a fact or contextual narrative about a fact than he.

[@tboflanagan77]

It's intellectual honesty...the beginning of learning

[@LTrotsky21stCentury]

Indeed. He is a Socratic, "The most knowledgeable man is he who knows what he does not know." I've always said the most important phrase in the English language is "I don't know." A phrase which correct 99% of the time.

[@Tubedog8]

My favorite author. I bought one of the LBJ books for $2 while waiting for my wife in a mall. I could not figure out how that bargain book had so many accolades on the cover. I have now read all of Caro's books. History told by the master!

[@JPBotero717]

You have to admit that Caro is the father of Robert Greene and the Grandfather of Ryan Holiday.

[@onion6foot]

@@JPBotero717 Huh?

[@rolandnelson6722]

Terrific story of luck.

[@rolandnelson6722]

Terrific story of good fortune.

[@08grampa]

Bob Caro is A national treasure

[@narkelnaru2710]

I don't think I have seen a better interview in a very long time. An absolute treat

[@emjayel4509]

Joe Rogan and Ed Norton brought me here

[@zingingcutie8421]

How ?

[@KilgoreTrout122]

Read all of Caro’s books. He’s a national treasure.

[@curbozerboomer1773]

Just the fact that really excellent people like this man are from America, makes me have hope for our country, despite the abysmal political situation we are in nowadays.

[@sumanthmurthy1642]

America is still a great country of talented individuals and that’s what makes many of us who have even a tiny bit of talent aspire to move there or at least work there for a few years. The people running the country are either morons or addled in their brains

[@suvendusbookclub]

Mr. William Hague was very much correct in suggesting the publishers to publish the original work on Robert Moses comprising about 1 mn 50 k words. Readers of the works of Mr. Caro must join together their voices for publication of the original and uncut version of "The Power Broker" as a collector's edition. At least now, the publishers can rest assured of the commercial success of the original unabridged book. It's my earnest request. Mr. Hague may certainly chose to lead our voices. Thanks.

[@liedersanger1]

Unasked question. What about “dark money,” Mr. Caro? Someone should “caro” the Koch brothers, the Republican Party and the fossil fuels industry. Unaccountable power always regroups beyond the public eye. The need for conscientious, indefatigable, and honest reporters like Caro will not go away.

[@dannyd1572]

What the hell is Dwight D. Eisenhower doing interviewing people?

[@HovikAliReis]

Caro seems like a really nice guy! Great style and handsome too

[@agoshgaur]

Have to say that the quality of questions from the audience was pretty good.

[@AlexBecksfan]

That's one of the best discussions I've seen so far! Hague made it really interesting by posing brilliant questions and swiftly shifting the audience's attention towards different subjects. Of course Mr Caro did a terrific job as well! He seemed very interested, frank and joyful. Thank you for uploading this video :)

[@petesmitt]

Hague has a formidable intellect, honed by an excellent education.

[@Frip36]

Hague is good, but talks too much. And what's the deal with the awkward taking 3 questions at once?

[@curbozerboomer1773]

Pretty true...but the best interviewer to deal with Mr. Caro, is that dude on the old C-SPAN interviews...brief questions, allowing Robert to give his thorough answers.

[@mickcraven980]

Holy cow! What an introduction! One day of Caro's press conferences is many lifetimes for normal schlubs like us.

[@davidrasch3082]

They key to Mr. Caro is "You have to be fair."

[@guitaro5000]

It's so funny how Hague SAYS he'd like to keep the question parts brief, but is adding the most time by adding so much small talk between questions and repeating each question in the wordiest way.

[@y8r113]

Master of the Senate is the best book I've ever read. But if you really want to enjoy it and understand it I would suggest (even more so than reading the previous volumes of the autobiographical series), you need to understand congress and the basic mechanics of it and how it works. Truly do your research before you read/listen to the book so it makes sense without making you think too hard about it.

[@RichardKoenigsberg]

What a great author, and what an evocative interview. Wish I had another lifetime to read all of Caro's books. He really recreates history in a precise, fascinating way: making the past come to life. And what a fantastic life Robert Moses had. Astonishing how he could accomplish so much. A great story.

[@weatherbird3071]

+Richard Koenigsberg there are only 5 books!

[@RichardKoenigsberg]

Ah, but it might take a lifetime to read each one.

[@weatherbird3071]

+Richard Koenigsberg generally, each takes about two weeks.

[@justbrowsingtheweb7791]

he gets money he aint got no time

[@y8r113]

Richard Koenigsberg, there's an audiobook for each of his books. I read Master of the Senate in like a week in a half.. and I understood it better than if I had read it on my own - the narrator was perfect. You could finish all of his books in a month or two if you were committed. Half a year if it were a daily thing an hour or so each day. Great for long drives, laying down in bed, etc.

[@jimmygentile1088]

Fascinating conversation. I cant imagine reading a book so large. I guess if its good enough reading you will enjoy it. My reading is sadly only books with a lot of pictures.

[@findmurphy]

Audio books with make you fly!

[@filosofiadetalhista]

Great interviewer, great interviewee, great audience questions. What a ride!!!

R. Caro will go down in history as a new Boswell; but let him first finish the last LBJ Book first!

[@findmurphy]

We can only hope that he makes it to Trump.

[@pyrotechnic96]

@@findmurphy lmao I'm hoping he lives through his Vietnam trip. He's a very old man and hasn't even gotten to the war in his research yet.

[@tboflanagan77]

3907 - Joy - a frequent, sumptious emotion, when I read much of Caro's work.

[@alexleonard9486]

B"H...It is very easy to fool the people but difficult to convince them that they HAVE been fooled!" Mark Twain.

[@steve39701]

This is for you. Thanks for your suggestions. Dad

[@williamhicken1206]

What a lovely and interesting man. I have read the first four volumes of Johnson (and Hague's biography of Pitt the Younger); all exceptionally good writing.

[@marymasterson5770]

It is very difficult to recreate a certain time in America. I remember when President Johnson, first lady and entourage came to San Antonio for Hemisphere '68. Everyone was so excited, and the visitors were very happy. They went to several events. The climate, era and feeling was just so different.

[@justbrowsingtheweb7791]

that is subjective

[@onion6foot]

Loved " Working".

[@tjadenekan]

Bravo to the moderator!

[@TheToltec]

My all time favorite i8nterview

[@JoJoRock197]

I would buy Robert Caro's autobiography instantly.

[@markcarey67]

It would mostly be going to a library and taking notes, interviewing people and taking notes and writing .

[@mattiascaccia7687]

Please can you put subtitles in your (very interesting) videos?

[@VonL]

Through out all his interviews Caro consistently dodged any questions that required projecting his opinions on events or people. He never speculated. He only reiterated the facts as presented in his books.

[@eashton42]

William Hague is really a quite peculiar character, in an amusing sort of way. He is a sort of melodramatist: all those soaring tones and linguistic flourishes and so on. And yet his slightly quirky (slightly muted) South Yorkshire vowels make him sound slightly less like the caricature of a Tory politician. I don't know what to make of him. That said, I'm an American, so my perception is not freighted with the same political baggage that it would otherwise be, so anyway, take this comment for what it's worth. (It's worth almost exactly what you paid for it, in fact.)

[@csfan65]

William Hague is one of the best speakers that I have ever heard. Watch some of the House of Commons debates here on youtube while he was in office. He has one of those voices that grabs your attention as soon as he starts to speak. I have always enjoyed his speeches.

[@williamwoody7607]

Robert Caro also possesses one of the best accents in the world.

[@user-mv6he6gl8m]

An icon!

[@HERNDONADER]

William Hague is adult Virgil Mastercard.

[@13CIRCLE]

"idear"

[@tboflanagan77]

Bronx accent bitch, whatsup, where you from

[@MacGregor.]

Would like to ask him what was it like to meet with Dulles, hoover etc the 21st of November 63

[@marckreisel5755]

Read the book Great book

[@matthewrobinson6986]

My question would be: if Johnson hadnt existed, how long would it have taken the US to pass civil rights legislation?

[@petej7002]

Thats a great question.

[@lukewarme9121]

You might want to check out the Civil Rights Act of 1866, Civil Rights Act of 1875, and the Civil Rights Act of 1957. I don’t think LBJ was president for those Civil Rights Acts.

[@sjw5797]

@@lukewarme9121 Johnson wrote the civil rights act of 1957, and rammed it through a very reluctant congress.

[@lukewarme9121]

@@sjw5797 Johnson wrote a watered down version. “On this date, the House of Representatives passed the initial version of what eventually became the Civil Rights Act of 1957. Propelled by advocacy groups like the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People, as well as the Dwight D. Eisenhower administration, Congress took up the issue of civil rights during the summer of 1957.... The House passed H.R. 6127 by a vote of 286 to 126. Under the direction of Senate Majority Leader and future President Lyndon B. Johnson of Texas, the Senate passed a watered-down version of the House bill which removed stringent voting protection clauses.” - (Source: “History, Art and Archives United States House Of Representatives”).

[@sjw5797]

@@lukewarme9121 The original version didn't have a hope of passing. Johnson got *something* passed and, as he put it, " once you break their virginity the second time is easier."

[@JWPeace_4MyBoys]

nice to know 1:10:33

[@MrOliverwoods]

Give Hague some credit, also.

[@LazlosPlane]

Is this England??

[@Jharrycornelius]

Reading his books now. The idea of genius and the bombastic language on LBJ:s record on make compassion law is a bit over the top. Honestly, the us has never been a decent society for blacks and poor. What he accomplished was a consolation prize and far from what they should expect from a great society.

[@davidpaul5465]

Yes Sir! Ralph Nader came at this in his way and reached, in my estimation, the exact same conclusion. The weakest link in the chain of events necessary for meaningful realization of any endeavor is the willfulness of the people to apply themselves as diligently as the task(s) demand. That's why your best projects are by teams dedicated to task rather than the willy nilly of a finicky bunch of what ever sort. While the ability to select said endeavors in a fashion that garners sufficient wealth for the next round consistently is a process by acculturation and the drive of the few. Thus, expecting results of perfection are ludicrous. The minds that conceived of how to defeat the Nazis in fairly short order would be castrated by the multitude. George S. Patton can not even be understood today despite his contribution to our being alive to discuss his role. So yes! Definitely yes, increase your understanding today. I think this is akin to the underpinnings of the philosophy espoused by Ayn Rand. The root of all questions of political philosophy come down to where you see the ideal line of demarcation of civic participation. A free People must strive to reach a standard to continually stay so. Do not need to ask: The standard is set by those that wish to take it.

[@khalidalali186]

Someone should have this sent to Mark Rutte.

[@profpmartin]

Before making judgments about events step back , wait ,seek more information then judge.

[@zingingcutie8421]

When does he talk about lbj

[@petesmitt]

Hague has made his Yorkshire accent sound posh; quite a clash with Caro's broad New York accent..

[@LazlosPlane]

And I'd love to know how he can afford to live on CPW, some of the highest real estate values on earth being an author/lecturer. Something's going on here...

[@Mujangga]

It's simple: If people are willing to directly hire others to perform services from baby-sitting to plumbing to real-estate to heart surgery then why not directly hire legislators and executives (if even necessary) in the same manner? If money is the key to the political system and people are willing to pay money for all kinds of things then why not pay for legislation and executive services? Instead of voting, which, even when there *is* no fraud, is a terrible way of choosing who does what. Why use a monetary selection method instead whereby candidates can sell "stock" in their candidacy and who ever sells more wins, losing stock can be transferred to the winner or reimbursed. Or some other monetary selection method: The only way to eliminate political corruption is by legalizing it.

[@Mujangga]

Where's the baseball cap?

[@jerryware1970]

Mother Teresa was known to be very stern towards the sick and poor. The beds weren’t comfortable, the food wasn’t good, and the nurses were mean. And the patients didn’t spend one day more than necessary in the hospital. Maybe Moses was on to something making public housing spartan.

[@escapefelicity2913]

A little William Hague goes a long way

[@johnjorgensen4488]

best comment : if you gave lyndon johnson an enema , you could fit what was left over in a shoebox .

[@robertholland8283]

#AndIQuote There was no plan it was a series of mistakes.

[@youAreAHappyPerson]

I love to have Power and Be a Powerful Person, Success 👔

[@ethandavies8227]

I'm sure your very powerful person (sarcasm)

[@_starter]

Why is this moderator talking like that?? He is making us look bad. Hey, person watching from the distant future. This moderator is talking funny to us too.

[@trollobite1629]

"...making us..." And yet you don't seem to know who William is.

[@lukewarme9121]

The moderator seems to be full of himself. A class or two above us.

[@ciaoruthremigiaramirezchir8893]

BUENAS TARDES! MUNDIAL ETERNAMENTE E INSUSTITUIBLE RUTH REMIGIA RAMIREZ CHIRIBOGA! CONDIVIDE EL VIDEO DE EL ARTE DEL PODER POLITICO CON ROBERT CARO Y WILLIAM HAGUE !GRACIAS CARO POR LA INFORMAZION ! RECIBAN UN SALUDO CORDIAL DE PARTE DE MUNDIAL ETERNAMENTE E INSUSTITUIBLE RUTH REMIGIA RAMIREZ CHIRIBOGA! @ )

[@kellyburton4222]

Brits ask way better questions than Americans. 🤔

[@MrKinglizzie]

Caro is brilliant but the interviewer is definitely not as intelligent as Donahue.

[@tetleydidley]

william hague talks too much. he should listen more.

[@opticscolossalandepicvideo4879]

Rip Robert caro.

[@thomas1910]

He’s not dead

[@petej7002]

35:40 He would spank the boys or yell at the girls if they didnt speak english. Doesnt sound very egalitarian. Sounds a bit like a racist to me. Could have left that part out.

[@Michael-qe1xo]

Did you listen to the beginning?

[@spm_hcmc]

Worst introduction in history

[@richardwarren4830]

I’m a great admirer of LBJ despite his many shortcomings. But I think it’s a mistake to judge people as overall either good or bad, attempting to weigh the good things they do against the bad. People can be both good and bad at the same time. Indeed this is true of almost everyone to some degree. Moreover, what is good or bad is judgemental, often subjective. Some people regard Thatcher and Reagan as good, positive, influences on their respective societies. Others take an entirely opposite view. So which is right? This first struck me in respect of Wagner. A reprehensible human being in many ways but a musician of genius. Does the man’s character detract from his genius? It’s a bit like saying a painting from a much admired person, such as Mother Theresa, must be a good painting because she was such a saintly individual. That makes no sense. She might have been a superb artist, or a very poor one, I have no idea. But surely art stands or falls in its own terms, not by the perceived personal charm of the artist. The fact is LBJ achieved so much that was positive in terms of civil rights, education and health care, importantly, things that no other politician could possibly have achieved. That is, I am sure, a cause for celebration and I am firmly of the view that the US is a better place today for LBJ having been President for 5 years.

[@ednorton47]

Caro will not be permitted by the establishment to finish his final LBJ volume.

[@thejdogcool]

The interviewer's accent is annoying as hell.

[@HIGHLANDER555]

Robert Caro's is quite annoying to British ears so let's call it a draw and enjoy two great intellects talking.

[@lukewarme9121]

Caro is a big believer in big goverment programs to solve societies ills. A true liberal/leftist.

[@lukewarme9121]

Caro is wrong about LBJ being the only one to pass a Civil Rights Act. There was a “Civil Rights Act of 1866”, a “Civil Rights Act of 1875”, and a “Civil Rights Act of 1957.” I thought Caro knew history better than he does. I have wonder how many other facts he gets wrong in his books?

[@sarthaksharma381]

Well he said first one to pass in 80 years. And 1957 civil rights was passed by LBJ himself, it's the main focus of Master of Senate.

[@lukewarme9121]

@@sarthaksharma381 1957 to 1964 isn’t 80 years and Eisenhower signed the 1957 Civil Rights Act. No Eisenhower, no 1957 Civil Rights Act. How do you, and Caro, explain that one? Make up more BS?

[@sarthaksharma381]

@@lukewarme9121 You are equating signing the bill to getting the bill passed. Eisenhower wasn't the one who manoeuvred in the senate to get the bill passed. It was LBJ who did so and again in 1964. Caro showed how without LBJ the bill was effectively dead in the water cause the South due to seniority had a hold on many of the important committees at the time which gave it enormous power. I would recommend you read the book to make up your mind if he is correct or not.

[@lukewarme9121]

@@sarthaksharma381 All of LBJ’s Congress efforts are worthless without a presidents signature. Do you think the 1957 Civil Rights Act would’ve been signed into law if George Wallace was president instead of Eisenhower? I don’t think so. LBJ should’ve never been in the Senate because he cheated in elections to get there. The man was a fraud.

[@sarthaksharma381]

@@lukewarme9121 Conversely without LBJ Eisenhower doesn't get to sign a Civil Rights. Don't get me wrong I am not taking anything away from Eisenhower. I am stating that the fact of the matter is LBJ was instrumental in its passing and you wouldn't get it without him. I agree he cheated and stole the election and shouldn't be there. But that's not what we are talking about. We are talking about LBJ's contribution to the 1957 Civil Rights Bill.

[@Vjl5280]

WHen are you sheep going to wake up and ask yourselves how a bunch of atheistic jews gain this much control? They own our money system through the fed. I swear you morons need to wake wakey

[@romeshchopra02]

?

[@VonL]

Through out all his interviews Caro consistently dodged any questions that required projecting his opinions on events or people. He never speculated. He only reiterated the facts as presented in his books.