The ATARI 2600 is an 8-bit game console | 8Blit

[@jonathanharding5103]

Fun video! I just wanted to add for anyone wondering how the graphics on the NES could look so complex with only 2kb of video ram. This is because the video chip could directly address rom in the cartridge, allowing for sprites and tiles to be available without needing extra vram.

[@nthgth]

Do you mean: the system basically used the cart ROM as if it were vram already preloaded with the required sprites/tiles ready to go?

[@litjellyfish]

@@nthgth yes. Basically VRAM on NES was mainly used to map the scrolling screen. So data that described what cart graphic each screen tile used and what color palette. So basically screen and color RAM that directly pointed to Cart ROM data

[@nthgth]

@@litjellyfish if I'm following, the VRAM just pointed to a ROM location and specified a color pallete? So it just needed to store memory locations for ROM and corresponding pallette identifiers. Not the graphics themselves. Do I have this sort of right? Kinda like MIDI for music. Instruments, notes, volume.. not the sounds themselves which are stored elsewhere.

[@litjellyfish]

@@nthgth exactly. The card had some form of hardware mapper that if I am getting it right feed directly to the console. Might be some more to it in detail. So apart from the pointers to palette bank and cart graphic I guess vram also had the palettes themselves I guess. I mean so the cpu could update them for color cycling effects etc Also I think this is how they made fake parallax. Say on other tile based systems it would take a lot of vram to have same tile gfx in different shifted versions or you had to do it real-time talking quite a bit of cpu effort. With nes if they cart was big enough you could just map to a set of preshifted tiles and in this create they impression of two layer parallax

[@litjellyfish]

@@nthgth yes. And even more similar to some synths where you could plug in new instrument carts

[@MaximRecoil]

I remember pondering this question with my friends at the local arcade in the late 1980s (we were about 13 years old). We came to the conclusion that the Atari 2600 and Intellivision must be 2-bit; the ColecoVision and Atari 5200 must be 4-bit, and everyone already knew the NES and Sega Master System were 8-bit thanks to Sega's marketing department. Of course, we had no idea what "bitness" even was, and before the Sega Genesis was introduced, no one thought of the NES or any other console in terms of "bits," which is why none of us knew how many "bits" the Atari 2600 and other pre-NES/SMS consoles had.

[@8Blit]

yes, a lot of what we 'knew' at the time came from marketing!

[@tangreen7267]

Good video !

[@8Blit]

Thanks, I appreciate it!

[@paulweiss3818]

We loved the 2600 and my friends and I amassed quite a collection of games for it. I'm embarrassed to say that after we got our Atari 800 computers we started referring to our 2600's as the Atari 2 bit. We knew better but the difference between the two machines was astounding to us.

[@8Blit]

Loved our 800xl... spent many hours typing in 1's and 0's from a book to see what the game was... and saving it to the tape drive.

[@jaysonl]

Good video! The NES doesn't really have a framebuffer, but the NES isn't really the subject of the video, either, so I can't fault you for not wanting to go into the rabbit holes of tiles, character rom vs, program rom vs character ram and before you know it we're talking about mapper chips... with the 2600, all you had to do was race the beam. :)

[@8Blit]

Ah, good to know. I think I over simplified the concept of a frame buffer and misinterpreted some NES specs. I'll see about adding an info card with a correction at that part.

[@jaysonl]

​@@8Blit Something I'd love to hear more about that I don't think anybody's really gone into much detail of, would be the chip that David Crane stuck in Pitfall II. How much of that game is enhancement chip, and how much of it is just super clever programming?

[@8Blit]

@@jaysonl That's a great idea, I'll going to compile some info for a future video. Thanks!

[@LtCdrRoyFokker]

I can vouch for the content of this video. As an 80s NES kid, I thought the 2600 (from a-tar-i!) was 4-bit due to the differences between it and the next generation of consoles that I grew up with. The 16 bit gen commercials (as well as the differences in graphics in the 32 and 64 bit eras) definitely the reason I assumed that.

[@nthgth]

I was a '90s kid (but started on NES) and I assumed the same for the same reason. Comparing the graphics (and sound). What fools we were thinking about bits the way the commercials told us to!

[@Z64sports]

As someone who's younger and didn't live through the bit wars I never saw any console before the NES or after the N64 as "bit consoles" tbh

[@LtCdrRoyFokker]

@@Z64sports I think that modern consoles like the XBX/PS5 and most computers are still 64 bit so the war ended a long time ago. :)

[@LtCdrRoyFokker]

@@nthgth I"m glad I wasn't the only one fooled by those slick ads! :)

[@8Blit]

I was mesmerized with the genesis commercials!

[@Mr.1.i]

The Atari 2600's CPU is the MOS Technology 6507, a version of the 6502, running at 1.19 MHz in the 2600. The NES's CPU is a Ricoh 2A03, which is based on the popular 8-bit MOS Technology 6502 and runs at 1.79 MHz (or 1.66 MHz in PAL systems).

[@MeanMrMustard1]

When I was just a wee lad, I thought the 2600 was a 2-bit console and the 5200 was a 4-bit console.

[@8Blit]

Makes sense, then the 7800 as 8-bit as it was a competitor to the NES as the time! :)

[@Uhfgood]

It's kind of weird everyone saying how they remember classifying the 2600 as a 2 or 4 bit system, I don't remember any of that. It was just a fun game machine. And like you said, we weren't really referring to bits until the 16 bit consoles started using it for marketing.

[@bitwize]

The first 16-bit home computer was the TI-99/4. The documentation talked up its 16-bitness although the marketing did not.

[@nthgth]

I guess people in marketing just saw it as generic computery mumbo-jumbo at the time and as something that was useless to actually selling the machines en masse. LMAO how times change, and then how they change back!

[@bitwize]

@@nthgth Pretty much, yeah. The TI-99/4 came out in 1979, when it was still a marvel just to have a computer in your home. And the mainframe division of TI did not want word getting out of it being too powerful, because it used a one-chip version of their mainframe CPU. That led to some... interesting design choices that ultimately nerfed the machine and hastened the doom of the TI-99 series.

[@nthgth]

@@bitwize meaning they worried it would cannibalize sales of a more profitable CPU?

[@bitwize]

They were afraid it would cannibalize sales of their larger machines, yes. The TMS9900 was a TI-990 CPU in a single-chip form factor. Some low-end TI-990 machines used it, as did the TI-99 series.

[@8Blit]

Thanks, I'll look up the documentation. You've peaked my interest!

[@carloshinojosa827]

I always thought 2600 was a 4 or 2 bits console because of the quality of graphics

[@8Blit]

It certainly has it's limitations, but it's amazing just how long and widespread the use of the 6502 or it's processors was!

[@McLovin_2007]

I love the Atari 8 bit consoles, including the 2600, 5200, and 7800. The 8 bit consoles are not to be confused with the 8 bit computer family (400, 800, XEGS). I think the games for these systems are fun regardless of age. I don't just judge a game by graphics alone, like modern gaming snobs do.

[@8Blit]

Highly detailed graphics and dialog is really great, but a lot of the time in newer games I just want to get on with it! Love to see some of the stuff people could push out of an older system!

[@_smarty]

Thanks for putting out more interesting content Kyle. :)

[@8Blit]

My pleasure Martin!

[@ghosthuntergr]

Your videos about the 2600 are unique! I was wondering if you can make some tutorials about visual batari basic.

[@8Blit]

Batari Basic is on my plan, but not for some time. I may make an introduction video sooner than an series of in depth episodes.

[@McLovin_2007]

Does anyone know why the bits would double in multiples of 8 with each generation? You start with 8, then 16, 32, 64, 128. When I was a kid, I got the impression that bits meant better graphics. It's easy to think that because NES was 8 bit, SNES was 16, Nintendo 64 has 64 bits, and GameCube has 128. But later I learned the bits have nothing to do with graphics. Intellivision is 16 bit, but doesn't compare to SNES.

[@8Blit]

That's a great question. I'm not really sure, but I'll try to figure that out and address it in a future video! Thanks!

[@bycromretrogamer7749]

Yes-ish… I’m not an expert but I have a basic understanding of binary. Basically, everything to do with computers is in powers of 2 (1, 2, 4, 8, 16, 32, 64, 128, etc) because that’s how computers function. Everything is either on/off, yes/no, or 0s and 1s. So you wouldn’t ever have something like 14 bit because you have to choose, 8 or 16 bit. (Bit referring to the size of data packets being sent.) Doubling the bit became a way for console manufacturers to flex on each other, a kind of “more is better” philosophy. Once you hit 64 bit, however, the performance increase from the size of the bit is less important than other factors, such as CPU clock speed, system ram, video chip, etc. That’s why console’s don’t really advertise their bits anymore. And it was always misleading. The Atari Jaguar is a prime example. Atari called it the first 64 bit console, but it was really two 32 bit processors working together. Even back then, the other hardware mattered, too. The Sega Genesis / Megadrive did have a better CPU than the SNES, giving it the advantage with certain kinds of games, like those with fast movement and/or lots of sprites. But the SNES had the better sound chip, and arguably the better video processing. (Generally the SNES looked cleaner and had better colors, but still the Genesis could pull off some things that the SNES couldn’t.) Sorry for the long explanation, other people can correct me on things I got wrong!

[@8Blit]

@@bycromretrogamer7749 I agree with mostly everything you said, especially about the console wars and doubling. The only part that I'm not sure about on the original question regards the existence of 12-bit systems like the CDC 660, and 24-bit systems like the CDC 924. There are other microprocessors that use 15, 18, 20, and 36 bits as well. I'm just not knowledgeable enough to know their purpose, or why next gens tend to double the bit. I do plan to look into it more though for a future video.

[@bycromretrogamer7749]

@@8Blit I would be interested in hearing more about that! A brief dig on the internet suggested that other architectures could have worked just fine but that once 8-bit became standard, most companies stuck with it because you could maintain compatibility if you doubled it. So an 18-bit system could theoretically be compatible with a 36-bit system, but probably not with a 32-bit system. But I literally put no thought into any of this until today, so I probably don't know what I'm talking about! If you make a video, I'll watch it!

[@WhitePointerGaming]

Consoles never got to 128-bit. The DC/PS2/Xbox/GC generation is sometimes referred to as the "128-bit" generation but that's not actually what the CPUs were. The processors stayed at 64-bit and in some cases even returned to 32-bit architecture, but they started going multicore. The PS2's Emotion Engine CPU for example actually has 8 processors inside it, but none of them are 128-bit. It's a mixture of 64 and 32-bit processors.

[@litjellyfish]

This is nice. Still I mean has it EVER been any doubt about this? I mean basically all console cpu before 16 bit was 8 bit?

[@8Blit]

I wonder how many bits those old Nintendo game & watch handhelds were. Now I have to go down a rabbit hole and find out!

[@litjellyfish]

@@8Blit they are 4 bit. And more microcontrollers in reality.

[@MacintoshLibrarian]

Is that a fox sheep? that is so cute!

[@8Blit]

That's my wives old fox stuffy from when she was little! I was going to put a smurf on the couch with me, but the fox looks better with the orange

[@MacintoshLibrarian]

@@8Blit I agree! Foxes are best :)

[@NikodAnimations]

It's so different from the 80s consoles that genrrations need to be used at this point. It is no good saying "8-bit", as that could mean "similar to Atari 2600", or "similar to NES".

[@billkendrick1]

*shares link with my son who keeps asking about 8bit vs 16bit lately*

[@8Blit]

It's cool that your son is showing an interest in older technology!

[@nthgth]

So, What if, through the years, everything stayed 8-bits? What if everything else got better just like IRL - MHz got faster, storage and memory got way bigger (via bank switching) but the processors' data buses stayed 8-bit this whole time? What would be the specific ramifications? Or, say, instead of a MIPS R4300i, the N64 had a 93MHz version of the 6502. (or hell, 150MHz). Or something that acted exactly like a 6502, but 150x faster without commensurate heat generation.

[@8Blit]

Actually, that would be an interesting thought experiment to try and work out! I think I'll start taking notes and maybe I can make a video about this in the future!

[@nthgth]

@@8Blit thank you for the reply! I'll be watching this space for sure

[@ngiants2230]

You referred to the Motorola processor as the “Motorola 6800” but it’s actually the “Motorola 68,000” not 6800.

[@8Blit]

Thanks for the catch, I'll add a note to the description to clarify.

[@MaximRecoil]

No, 6800 is correct. The MOS 6502 design team had previously worked on the Motorola 6800 project, not the 68000, which wouldn't exist for another 5 years.

[@MaximRecoil]

@@8Blit No, you were correct when you said 6800; "ngiants2230" is wrong. The MOS 6502 design team had previously worked on the Motorola 6800 project, not the 68000, which wouldn't exist for another ~5 years.

[@combatking0]

The Atari 2600 is nothing but a darn two-bit game console! - hillbillies, probably.

[@justanandroidguy]

I knew the nes was 8bit

[@とふこ]

Why? The Xbox series x and the Nintendo 64 are both 64 bit consoles.

[@8Blit]

What do you mean?

[@johneygd]

Well i tout that the atari 2600 was 4bits as well,but No matter how primitive the atari 2600 is,with the super charger addon along with all the graphical & sound tricks in mind,you can get NEARLY nes quality graphics & sounds, BTW i wish you mentioned that the snes cpu has only an 8bit dat bus,and count that with it’s slow ram and lower clock speed along with in most cases lorom chips in games,it’s no wonder that the genesis cpu outpased it hence the term blast processing.

[@8Blit]

for sure, the super charger with it's extended memory allowed games to do a lot more!

[@Islandswamp]

I gave you a sub for support.

[@8Blit]

Thanks, I always appreciate support!