The authors of Genesis (J, E, and P wrote contradicting versions of the same story)

[@LuisAldamiz]

I don't think that "elohim" should be translated to "God" but to "the gods", inserting the E source into Canaanite polytheism, to which Solomon's kingdom and partly the Northern Kingdom (which IMO was actually two, one larger polytheistic and pro-Phoenician and the other smaller monotheistic and pro-Judah: the respective dynasties overlap and should not be counted literally as succeeding each other, even if they're presented as such maybe by error) flirted with. That's how El became the same as Yaweh, even if originally they were two separate gods, it seems. Synchretism happens.

[@Stephans_History_of_the_World]

It is either god or gods depending on the associated verb, I think

[@LuisAldamiz]

@@Stephans_History_of_the_World - It's "gods" plural (and becomes El, not Yaweh, after the Mosaic "revelation" in the E source) but most Biblical scholars argue for monotheistic consistency and thus claime that it is an archaic form of respectful phrasing and that it means El (i.e. God), but that's clearly ideological distorsion of reality, it's clear to me that the Bible uses the exresion "the gods" (elohim) and thus that it reflects a period in which they were polytheistic. Ultimately Judaism emerges (in a complex way) within Canaanite society, which also included the northern Canaanites, i.e. the Phoenicians, at least in the early stages. This is very apparent in the many polytheistic "heresies" that the Bible itself records (Solomon at times, major Northern Kindgom afterwards, instances of "idolatry" like the golden calf almost certainly, etc.) In my understanding (feel free to improve, I'm just a humble aficionado to History and Prehistory after all) the Bible offers clues about how this happened but has to be read critically (because it's legend and not objective undisturbed historical narration), for example the order of the tribes, with Reuben being the elder and corresponding to the transition from "exile" to statehood, followed by Simeon and Judah, as well as the priestly "landless tribe" of the Levites (all them in areas near or in the semi-desert, although Judah extends to the southern West Bank), represents the history of their conversion or assimilation in the theocracy. This process of establishment of a single dogma is full of contradictions as you underline with the issue of the various sources and these contradictions also involved dialectics between Judaic monotheism and "Phoenician" (original Canaanite) polytheism, which was no doubt particularly influential because of two reasons: it was the original set of beliefs of most Canaanites (monotheism was something new for sure) and Tyre particularly (who was the motherland of most Phoenician colonies, including Carthage and Gadir, who dealt with Tarshish = Tartessos = Southern Iberia) was extremely influential both in Solomon's kingdom (which must be thus dated to the 8th and not the 9th century BCE) and some of the successors (major faction of the Northern Kingdom alias "Israel" 2.0).

[@tbishop4961]

​@@Stephans_History_of_the_Worldboth singular and plural verbs are used with it, but I haven't yet gotten a feeling for it's nuance

[@petermsiegel573]

@@LuisAldamizyou then have to explain the other ~100 words that use a plural form in singular meaning, comparable to eloah~ Elohim. If you don’t know what words those are, study any standard grammar.

[@LuisAldamiz]

@@petermsiegel573 - You mean in English like maths? We're not talking English, I don't even know how to use such English plurals "maths do" or "maths does"?

[@BrotherM-co3tj]

Thanks for this clear, articulate, well organized introduction to the documentary hypothesis. I've listened to a few of your videos in the past week or two and find them all to be of high quality.

[@Stephans_History_of_the_World]

Appreciated!

[@LM-jz9vh]

The below website from a Biblical scholar is quite informative. *"Contradictions in the Bible | Identified verse by verse and explained using the most up-to-date scholarly information about the Bible, its texts, and the men who wrote them"* -- by Dr. Steven DiMattei

[@michaelmelamed9103]

This is very important information for a 21 century person. Fairly tales for children and childlike adults are being edited and adapted for animation all the time based on the cultural and political context.

[@danielmalinen6337]

I don't understand why the outdated JEP source theory is still being held to, even though there is a newer multi-source theory, according to which the stories are pieced together from several fragments, like a patchwork, and there was no actual JEP source. And the biggest Achilles tendon of the JEP theory has been that the texts have been edited over time, things have been cut, updated and added (even after the Second Jewish War / Bar Kokhba Revolt), and it is also known that southern Judah and northern Israel were not monotheistic kingdoms as the JEP theory assumes.

[@Stephans_History_of_the_World]

Yeah. JEP is like Newtonian physics, its a first level rough approximation. Its all more complicated. But its a good start into the field

[@Stephans_History_of_the_World]

Do you recommend a source?

[@fordprefect5304]

Outdated by who? Evangelicals and orthodox jews. Nice try but entire stories have been separated out. Documentary Hypostasis is a fact supported by the bible.

[@SteveS-s3k]

​@@Stephans_History_of_the_WorldR. N. Whybray does a fairly thorough development of the history of the field in The Making of the Pentateuch - A Methodological Study.

[@coyotezee]

When I was around 14, I was an earnest young Christian who decided I should read the Bible all the way through. My parents gave me a copy of the book "A Guide to Understanding the Bible," by Harry Emerson Fosdick (available in digital form on Religion Online). This explained the evolution of concepts in the Bible by tracing various themes using the DH to place the ideas historically, always culminating with the Christian ideas. It was immensely helpful to my understanding of the Bible and should be read by any Christian wanting a better understanding of all the important ideas in the Bible. I then gradually came to realize that Christianity had failed to continue this evolution and locked all the ideas from the New Testament into dogma.

[@RightOnBro72]

Just read the whole Bible from cover-to-cover (a very time-consuming task) and pretend you're a first-century Jew, and you'll easily find that the New Testament is a very Anti-Jewish work of literature. Not the first & not the last, but a very puzzling thing that so many Christians gather in church every Sunday worshipping someone who is NOT the God of Israel, (whether or not you like that god in the first place.)

[@fiktivhistoriker345]

In the old testament there are a lot of parts some people woul consider Anti-Jewish. Remember the curses about what would happen, if Israel doesn't follow Gods rules and ways. Also the authors of the new testament cited a lot of verses from the old to prove that Jesus was the awaited messiah.

[@ewkeenan]

I read Alice in Wonderland once and decided that the rabbit was god.

[@therealdannymullen]

I have wondered before, why some things were repeated. I assumed it was just a writing style of the time; to give a brief synopsis for context. Cool lecture! Thank you for it.

[@ranaldthurgood4875]

This is very interesting and informative. However, what you're not saying is that these early books of the Bible are oral myths, existing in different versions before being written down. This is true of mythologies around the world. Many Norse, Greco/Roman and North American indigenous myths, telling of the origins of the world as we know it, our relationship with the Divine, and why people carry out particular rituals and customs, exist in many versions. In fact, going beyond the world of the Hebrews, the Great Flood story in the Epic of Gilgamesh from Mesopotamia overlaps greatly with the story of Noah, but with a Mesopotamian hero of course. The story of Christ overlaps with the Greek myth of Dionysius, a demigod with a divine father and a human mother, whose was killed when young, and whose blood the Greeks drank in the form of wine. Furthermore, myths changed over time, often being localized and developing new cultural heroes as people migrated. The oral word, predates writing. A written story may be locked in a fixed form while oral stories allow more flexibility. Thanks.

[@Stephans_History_of_the_World]

Yeah, I should have added that the stories can be much older. I do say that in my book. If I ever make an updated video, I will add this

[@cygnustsp]

I thought you did make that point, albeit briefly. ​@@Stephans_History_of_the_World

[@RightOnBro72]

@ranaldthrugood4675, the word "Bible" literally means "Library," or just a collection of books -- hopefully somehow related.

[@JorgeStolfi]

The kingdoms of Judah and Israel probably had two different versions of the Torah, that evolved separately over many centuries as oral traditions and were eventually written down separately. As the Bible itself tells, when Ezra took control of those lands, he set to unify the religion by "restoring" a single Torah for all. Politically, it makes sense that, rather than choosing one of the two versions, or fusing them into a single story, he would choose to interleave the two versions. That way, the priests from each region could continue to read "their" version of the Torah from that "unified" text.

[@thesoundsmith]

To be fair, Phil Collins, Tony Banks and Peter Gabriel have quite different worldviews. Their lyrics reflect this.

[@iffracem]

I was brought up a Christian, then at about 8-9 yo I actually started to read the Bible. That was the trigger that turned me atheist. That and the way so many "devout" conduct themselves. Contradictions and hypocrisy are the corner stones of all religions, but especially the "Abrahamic" religions.

[@asaadsalahuddin1379]

Have you read the quran yet?

[@davidhoward4715]

@@asaadsalahuddin1379 Islam is one of the Abrahamic religions.

[@asaadsalahuddin1379]

@davidhoward4715 yes, it is....can't think of any 'contradictions' or hypocrisy in the quran though...

[@jim6038]

​@asaadsalahuddin1379 there are many, many blatant contradictions in the quran

[@215Gallagher]

Interesting work. However, I am amazed how these myths and legends still hold sway after nearly three thousand years. I know there are some Scandinavians who still yearn for Odin and Freya and my Greek Irish Australian granddaughter likes the stories of Aphrodite and Persephone, but that is where it should be left and the horror stories of the Old Testament should not be recreated in the 21st century.

[@RightOnBro72]

@215Gallagher, I agree, but the sad news is, people always want something better. The Jesus story promises more good times & happiness in the afterlife than the Old Testament, so more people chase after what might bring them joy. Yet as science evolves, there is also an ever-growing number of Atheists who don't believe in any of this religious stuff. Our days of the week are still tributes to Scandinavian deities, yet we've been to outer space & still haven't found any of them flying around or living in castles in the sky. Take the idea of Valhalla/Heaven away, and you'll just make a bunch of humans a whole lot sadder, because they'll have nothing to look forward to after this life.

[@hachwarwickshire292]

No. They are part of the cultural development of nations and people. For example : Brytonic societies are respectful of women. Because we had a powerful female Goddess. Powerful female Druidic priests. So respect was ingrained into the culture. You don't hit women ! It is a cultural thing. Sikhs also have this attitude for different reasons. These cultural attitudes persist. Now name that Goddesss.

[@Red-Feather]

How did you initially separate the sources? You present as if this division, separation was already common knowledge

[@RealAustinMartin]

Exactly on point. It’s a speculation: the only way to get there is start by knowing it’s a false mythology, and then working backward to reinvent the origin story of the text. This is not actually evidence of any theory - the facts here are just as well explained by a lack of comprehension by the scholars as it would be by multiple contending authors. Some of these “evidences” can be definitively debunked by an alternative explanation which offers less violence to the text, such as the rebellion of Korah. Much hangs on the assumption that the changes in character development of God is attributable to later changes in mythology; the idea these changes could be historical never occurs to the modern scholar, because they started out by knowing it was all a bunch of misunderstood agricultural ritual anyway. Not very good scholarship, imho

[@fromtheresearchchair]

I appreciate you taking the time to explain the evidence for the hypothesis. I think it is concise and clear, as well as convincing.

[@ewkeenan]

A copy of a copy of a copy of some things that may have happened and some things that probably didn’t. Some people that probably existed, and some that definitely did not.

[@Hambie76]

You just described all three central texts in the Abrahamic tradition. 😊

[@_moodrings_]

One thing I’ve recently found a bit odd is how much the land of the Philistines was avoided only for them to be set up as the big baddies of the OT even though, historically, the *Peleset* seemed pretty alright within the region. I’ve got a wild theory but don’t want to get into the weeds now lol.

[@fordprefect5304]

You mean when Moses avoided it [EXODUS 13] And it came to pass, when Pharaoh had let the people go, that God led them not through the way of the land of the Philistines, Even though the Philistines did not exist in that time period.

[@_moodrings_]

@ there’s actually a few instances of them being avoided. Joshua is a big one.

[@fordprefect5304]

@@_moodrings_ The best is when Abrams son met the Kikng of the Philistines. [Genesis 26] Now there was a famine in the land, besides the former famine that had occurred in the days of Abraham. And Isaac went to Gerar, to King Abimelech of the Philistines

[@aku7598]

Couldn't fully understand the universe but understand its creator. It's very contradicting. Creator logically is more complex than its creation. One religion even knows his family. He has a son. Constituents of matters not fully understood but fully understand its creator.

[@davidmenasco5743]

Excellent video. Clear presentation of some basic points that help to explain a lot.

[@neilcreamer8207]

Although there are elements in the stories which indicate earlier origins, modern scholarship suggests that they were not organised until after the return from the Babylonian exile and probably as late as 200 BC in time of the Maccabees. There is also no evidence of the practice of Judaism (e.g. abstinence from pork) prior to this time.

[@korana6308]

Thanks, very insightful information. 👍👍

[@Demetrenos]

Mythology: 2% real and the rest invented.

[@paulgibbons2320]

You have excellent delivery.

[@robertloe9017]

Thank you for the written notes. It helps me very much.

[@MikeRBurch]

Very well-presented and understandable. Bravo! I would add that archeological evidence and extra-biblical texts tell us that the "law of Moses" was either entirely or largely unknown in Judea until the second century BCE. Thus the bible as we have it was still being heavily revised from the sixth century to the third or second century BCE. Also, Moses was unknown outside the bible until the third century BCE. Someone who led weaponless slaves to a victory over the mighty Egyptian pharaoh would have resulting in mockery from Egypt's enemies, which were legion. All indications are that Moses was made up at later dates than commonly believed.

[@johnsarkissian5519]

If I may, I would like to remind you that the first that the ch in Chaldeans is pronounced like a k or a hard c. It’s not the ch in church.

[@Stephans_History_of_the_World]

Thanks! I wrote it down for next time!

[@andyh3970]

You date j as 9th or 8th centuries on slide at 13:15. I’m guessing that’s a typo and should be bc Awesome video !!!! I just bought your book!

[@Stephans_History_of_the_World]

Yeah, BC

[@johnsarkissian5519]

At 6:36, 7:23 and others, why is the text written in Persian? It’s also unusual to have European medieval style illustrations with a Persian text.

[@Stephans_History_of_the_World]

Good eye! Crusader Bible was given as gift to Persian royalty. Then it was translated into Persian.

[@johnsarkissian5519]

@@Stephans_History_of_the_World Thank you very much for the information! It’s fascinating!

[@johnrowland9570]

This theory of Wellhausen was refuted 70 years ago.

[@RustyWalker]

The story of Moses and Aaron's staffs is interesting because the Egyptian magicians could do it too. Their gods were also able to do that miracle, but Moses' God was able to make miraculous snakes that gobbled up the snakes of the Egyptian magicians in a supposed demonstration that, even if Egypt, it was supposedly more powerful than the local gods. I think that would shock modern Christians that the existence of the Egyptian gods was granted as a given in the stories about Moses. A similar idea occurs in the story of Elijah's altar, but the god isn't able to do the same miracle for the priests of Baal, though those priests believed he could. A scientific consideration suggested that that might be because Elijah cheated. He used rocks that were reactive with a liquid (naphthath?) that from a distance would resemble water - being clear and pourable. Elijah never claims Baal doesn't exist, as far as I recall. He claims he is impotent or absent when challenged by his god. I'm not entirely sure of the timeframe, but at one point, Baal and Yahweh were both part of the Israelite pantheon, along with El, the Father God, and Asherah. This story might date to the period after the Yahwist cult gained supremacy and were distancing themselves from Baal worship. That's worth checking.

[@AdrianBoyko]

Wow, I already knew that the bible is ridiculous but this makes it sound like an absolute train wreck.

[@RightOnBro72]

@AdrianBoyko, the Bible is a collection of books. The word literally means "library." Most of the books aren't even in order. Reading it is like watching "Pulp Fiction."

[@pcdog8903]

It is a train wreck!

[@Armageddon2036]

The contradictions come because of this: During the Hellenistic period, three parallel versions "developed", according to the Talmud, which were "unified" in a later debate among Jewish scholars.

[@gabrielmaximianobielkael3115]

Does the Talmud mention the fact that there were three sources?

[@TontonMacoute]

In English you would say duplicates. Doublets are a kind if 16th Century trouser.

[@claytonhowardford3333]

For the counterview, read the book, The Logical Fallacies of the Documentary Hypothesis.

[@fordprefect5304]

For the truth read this paper A Textual Study of Noah’s Flood by project Tabs

[@ewkeenan]

For the counter view, I suggest science not fairytales.

[@claytonhowardford3333]

@@fordprefect5304 I read the article you suggested. How can you say that it is the truth when there is no objective evidence whatsoever to support it? Some points to consider: (1) The Documentary Hypothesis (DH) is all conjecture. Archaeology has yet to uncover a single copy of any of the alleged documents. (2) The DH is not the only hypothesis that tries to explain the supposed difficulties in the flood story. Some scholars, for example, promote the supplementary hypothesis, which says that there was a basic text to which supplements were gradually added over a long period of time. This hypothesis also has no copies of the text or supplements to support it, so which hypothesis is correct? (3) The DH originated in Europe but the majority of European biblical scholars today reject it. Instead, they follow the approach taken by Rolf Rentdorff. Again, there are no copies to support this approach either, so which hypothesis is correct? (4) What sets the DH apart from the other hypotheses is its claim that, once the Hebrew text is divided into the four documents, each document is complete and coherent. But that is not true. In J’s flood story, for example, the ark just appears. No one, not even Yahweh, builds it. P’s flood story immediately follows P’s creation story (Gen. 1:1-2:4a). But the creation story ends with everything being good and the flood story starts with the earth being corrupt. What happened in between? That is missing in P. (5) The scholars who support the DH cannot agree on which verse belongs to which document. The TABS article and the video’s notes refer to Friedman’s book, Who Wrote the Bible? Another book which supports the DH is The Composition of the Pentateuch by Joel Baden. But many of the verses which Friedman gives to J, Baden gives to E, and vice versa. Friedman gives Gen. 7:18-20, 22, to J but the TABS article gives them to P. Just how scientific and truthful can their approach be if they keep getting different results? All of this, and more, is covered in the book, The Logical Fallacies of the Documentary Hypothesis.

[@claytonhowardford3333]

@@ewkeenan Your comment tells me that you did not bother to read the book. Some points to consider: (1) The Documentary Hypothesis (DH) is all conjecture. Archaeology has yet to uncover a single copy of any of the alleged documents. (2) The DH is not the only hypothesis that tries to explain the supposed difficulties in the flood story. Some scholars, for example, promote the supplementary hypothesis, which says that there was a basic text to which supplements were gradually added over a long period of time. This hypothesis also has no copies of the text or supplements to support it, so which hypothesis is correct? (3) The DH originated in Europe but the majority of European biblical scholars today reject it. Instead, they follow the approach taken by Rolf Rentdorff. Again, there are no copies to support this approach either, so which hypothesis is correct? (4) What sets the DH apart from the other hypotheses is its claim that, once the Hebrew text is divided into the four documents, each document is complete and coherent. But that is not true. In J’s flood story, for example, the ark just appears. No one, not even Yahweh, builds it. P’s flood story immediately follows P’s creation story (Gen. 1:1-2:4a). But the creation story ends with everything being good and the flood story starts with the earth being corrupt. What happened in between? That is missing in P. (5) The scholars who support the DH cannot agree on which verse belongs to which document. The TABS article and the video’s notes refer to Friedman’s book, Who Wrote the Bible? Another book which supports the DH is The Composition of the Pentateuch by Joel Baden. But many of the verses which Friedman gives to J, Baden gives to E, and vice versa. Friedman gives Gen. 7:18-20, 22, to J but the TABS article gives them to P. Just how scientific and truthful can their approach be if they keep getting different results? All of this, and more, is covered in the book, The Logical Fallacies of the Documentary Hypothesis. If you are truly scientific and objective, you would consider all of the evidence, not just the evidence that you favor.

[@claytonhowardford3333]

@@fordprefect5304 I did read the article. How can you say it is the truth when there is no objective evidence to support it whatsoever. Some points to consider: (1) The Documentary Hypothesis (DH) is all conjecture. Archaeology has yet to uncover a single copy of any of the alleged documents. (2) The DH is not the only hypothesis that tries to explain the supposed difficulties in the flood story. Some scholars, for example, promote the supplementary hypothesis, which says that there was a basic text to which supplements were gradually added over a long period of time. This hypothesis also has no copies of the text or supplements to support it, so which hypothesis is correct? (3) The DH originated in Europe but the majority of European biblical scholars today reject it. Instead, they follow the approach taken by Rolf Rentdorff. Again, there are no copies to support this approach either, so which hypothesis is correct? (4) What sets the DH apart from the other hypotheses is its claim that, once the Hebrew text is divided into the four documents, each document is complete and coherent. But that is not true. In J’s flood story, for example, the ark just appears. No one, not even Yahweh, builds it. P’s flood story immediately follows P’s creation story (Gen. 1:1-2:4a). But the creation story ends with everything being good and the flood story starts with the earth being corrupt. What happened in between? That is missing in P. (5) The scholars who support the DH cannot agree on which verse belongs to which document. The TABS article and the video’s notes refer to Friedman’s book, Who Wrote the Bible? Another book which supports the DH is The Composition of the Pentateuch by Joel Baden. But many of the verses which Friedman gives to J, Baden gives to E, and vice versa. Friedman gives Gen. 7:18-20, 22, to J but the TABS article gives them to P. Just how scientific and truthful can their approach be if they keep getting different results? All of this, and more, is covered in the book, The Logical Fallacies of the Documentary Hypothesis.

[@geoffhoutman1557]

What’s with the part time subs we can’t turn off? This ain’t tiktok, keep em off pls or make them optional

[@usergiodmsilva1983PT]

Yes, the first part of the Bible was written after the middle of the OT... It's like they did a prequel after contacting with the Babylonian archives or something (nudge nudge, wink wink) 🤪

[@Stephans_History_of_the_World]

Yeah, but still a magnificent document. The layered nature, to me, makes it all the more intriguing. Goldmine for historians

[@jacktbugx1658]

That greek mythology the original Story

[@fordprefect5304]

Noah next You may want to look at his paper. Project Tabs separated the two complete Noah stories. "A Textual Study of Noah's Flood" I would put a link but it will be deleted.

[@RustyWalker]

Is "Elohim" God or "the Divine Cousel?" A group of powerful supernatural beings, like a pantheon, but not necessarily limited only to beings with godhood? Is it specifically "God" in the "E" source?

[@RightOnBro72]

@RustyWalker, it's up to you (the reader) to decide. God (YHVH) is often called "god of gods," "judge of judges," and "lord of hosts/armies". Well, who are these other gods, judges, and armies?

[@RustyWalker]

@@RightOnBro72 That's in a previous episode. The question I'm asking here is if the E for Elohim is about God or about the divine counsel. I'm not asking _IF_ it means a divine counsel. And no, it's not "up to the reader to decide," unless they are familiar with ancient Hebrew or the works of people who are.

[@fordprefect5304]

@@RustyWalker Elohim means "GOD" or GODS" depending on its context. Yes, it can be used as a singular or a plural.

[@benverret7968]

7:30 Judah turns into Israel.

[@Stephans_History_of_the_World]

Haha yeah, I made mistake

[@nonamemcgillicutty9585]

Jacob turns into Israel

[@LuisAldamiz]

The -differences are- devil is in the details

[@lapilulecryptee7518]

You mean the 'devil' in Genesis 3 aka the one titled 'lord God' of crafts, the one who created the craftiest beast of the earth aka the serpent ? Or maybe the angel of the Lord the prophet Balaam encountered near Moab or still the one who deceived the whole world since the foundation of the world(Genesis 3-4) and Abel murder.. I mean the Revelation Dragon or 'ancient' serpent aka the Devil(Lord God).. To resume the God of the psalm 83 Ishmaelite/'phoenician' confederation/conspiration..

[@LuisAldamiz]

@@lapilulecryptee7518 - I just meant that it's funny. Which is funnier: the imaginary devil or the actual details?

[@edinshealtiel3754]

Your in a league Of your own .....😮😮😮 And i have listened to many😊

[@RightOnBro72]

At time 5:37, @Stephans_History_of_the_World says "Moses reveals himself as Yahweh to Moses." I think you meant to say "Yahweh" (or maybe the Burning Bush) "reveals himself as Yahweh to Moses."

[@raycrossley5398]

A few copies of the mastor copies of the toha old testoment bible were lost when the second temple was burned by the Romans a rabbi got the scrools out in a stone cofin these stone cofins were small so the rabbi could only get a few scrools out from these scrools the toah bible was put together. It why the time lines are all over the place.

[@PhuManchew]

Textual critics are not to be taken seriously. First, It is Exodus 17:6-7, not 18. Second, there is no contradiction to Numbers 20, in both cases, Moses struck the rock. Third, The reason Moses cannot enter the promised land is that he did not trust and sanctify God. Lastly, there are absolutely ZERO autographs available; to say that parts of Genesis are written in Hebrew from three distinct periods is very misleading. There are manuscripts from many different periods, written in different text styles, but they are not in one complete Bible.

[@ewkeenan]

Elohim derives from the Babylonian Annunaki or “those who came to Earth from above”.

[@onetruetroy]

I’m glad J, P and E are used because if Yahwist, Priestly, and Elohist were said throughout the video all of this would sound totally ridiculous and could hardly be taken seriously.

[@RightOnBro72]

Except that he keeps saying "G" instead of "J." That's quite confusing if you didn't hear the first part when he said "J" was for "Yahwists," and he doesn't even tell you that since "J" doesn't exist in Hebrew or Greek, it's the same thing as a "Y." He also shows the "R"/"Redactor" source, but doesn't mention it.

[@onetruetroy]

@ could be because of the Dutch accent. The letter J is pronounced /yay/ and G is /hay/.

[@fiktivhistoriker345]

Just a few things to mention. "El" is not a name, it is the word for "God", like "Baal", that means "Lord". There were many of them, also worshipped by some israelites, as the Bible tells us. But there was just one God of the Bible, JHWH, that can be pronounced Jahweh or Jehovah. According to P.J. Wiseman, there might have been more authors of the Genesis. He stated (in his Book about the Genesis), that the term "This is the story of..." in old scriptures often indicates the were, when and by whom a text was written. So, it seems likely that Genesis was written by eyewitnesses and later compiled by Moses, with the addition of a few details, like the descendants of Ishmael and Esau. Mentioning the story of creation, the first part is the story of creation, most likely told to humans by some higher beeing, like Gods Word, mentioned in the gospel of John chapter 1. The second is a short recap about the creation of man and then continues about what happened after that.

[@stantorren4400]

1)Yes, El is a general term for God. BUT!!! You’re forgetting an important figure of the Canaanite pantheon: El. His name was indeed El 2)His name was pronounced Yahweh, not Jehovah or something similar. That name came later 3)Moses never existed

[@fiktivhistoriker345]

It's always good to know when people are sincere that something happened or not. They must have been eyewitnesses. We just have sacred texts, diligently copied over several thousands of years. Now, just to mention something more, this video is supposed to tell us something about the book of Genesis. Now he mentions Moses, who we meet in the book of Exodus. Are there really two different version of Moses hitting the rock, or did this probably happen two times? And if you read closely, the problem was not that he hit the rock instead of speaking to it. The problem was, that Moses got angry and did not gave God the honor.

[@fiktivhistoriker345]

Does it make sense, as the narrator is trying to tell us, that the priests omitted several parts the other supposed sources were telling, because they didn't liked it - and then everything was put together in one book? They must have been insane.

[@stantorren4400]

@ You forget many of the stories in the bible are batshit insane. How the fuck does this God leave a tree that’s conveniently placed near his creation and just happens to have a cunning serpent to lure them in. If any other mythology had something like this, people would attack the God for setting them up. Nobody who believed in Greek mythology acted like it was Pandora’s fault for opening the box

[@DavidAnderson-m5c]

So... what does that make Kal-El?

[@bradphi2359]

Study of numbers will tell us the truth Christ told us who wrote Genesis

[@YepTriedToTellYou]

This is an ill conceived. The hypothesis of multiple authors is a guess based on linguistic prose or “style”. You can do the EXACT same thing with Shakespeare. It’s style prose analysis gone wrong. Try reading Sailhammer, “The Pentateuch as Narrative”. You’ll change your adherence in the first 50 pages.

[@niwlecram4566]

Genesis was copied from the sumerian creation story

[@GODandGODDESS]

* GENESIS 2:7-22 is a tiny Copper Age context of GENESIS chapter 1. * Profoundly, not only does GENESIS 2:1-22 independently disprove Young Earth Creation, but it also contributes to proving that THE HOLY BIBLE mentions Pre Adamites. Carefully meditate on the following SCRIPTURE: * 1. In GENESIS 2:7, GOD CREATED Adam (a 6th DAY creation) before GOD CREATED Eden’s birds (5th DAY creations) in GENESIS 2:19. That is one instance of CREATION DAYS overlapping each other. A 6th DAY creation predated some 5th DAY creations. * 2. Furthermore, the order in GENESIS 2:7-19 (Adam predating Eden’s birds) proves that GENESIS 2:19 is not a re-telling of the entirety of GENESIS 1:24-25 and GENESIS 1:26-27. * 3. The fact that GENESIS 2:19 is not a re-telling of the entirety of GENESIS 1:24-25 (non avian terrestrial animals), and the fact that GENESIS 2:7 / GENESIS 2:22 is not a re-telling of the entirety of GENESIS 1:26-27 (humans) collectively prove that Adam was not the chronologically first GENESIS 1:27 creation. * 4. If Adam was the chronologically first GENESIS 1:27 creation, then GENESIS 2:7-22 would have necessarily been written in a different order in which GENESIS 2:7-22 is actually written in: * Eden’s plants (GENESIS 1:12 / 3rd DAY creations) would have been referenced first. * And then Eden’s birds (GENESIS 1:21 / 5th DAY creations) would have been referenced. * And then Eden’s non avian terrestrial animals (GENESIS 1:25 / 6th DAY creations) would have been referenced. * And then Adam and Eve (GENESIS 1:27 / 6th DAY creations) would have been referenced. * However, that is not the order of GENESIS 2:7-22. * 5. Pre Adamites were humans (GENESIS 1:27 creations) who predated Adam (a Copper Age GENESIS 1:27 creation). Countless Pre Adamites were Stone Age GENESIS 1:27 creations. * 6. The trees that GOD CREATED in GENESIS 2:9 were 3rd DAY creations that GOD CREATED after HE HAD CREATED Adam (a 6th DAY creation). * 7. GENESIS 2:1-22 independently disproves Young Earth Creation, and contributes to proving that THE HOLY BIBLE mentions Pre Adamites. *

[@geoffreybslater1146]

There is no proof that were 3 authors, it is simply a hypothesis.

[@RunesandReapers]

This was great. I do take some issue with the use of the word Contradiction while parts of the bible does have some. When talking about creation stories it's not that clear. also these are a quarrelsome people lol.

[@piotrleszczynski5744]

Learning basic Hebrew would help? In Hebrew "im" is a sufix that makes a word plural. Or isn't? סוּס • (sus) = horse סוּסִים‎ (susim) = horses sus + im = susim סוּסִים טוֹבִים‎ (susim tovim) = good horses tov + im = tovim יָדַיִם‎ (yadayim) = two hands yád = hand yadayim = hands So "elohim" is plural or not? en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suffixes_in_Hebrew

[@michaelbarry8513]

The Documentary Hypothesis is entirely theoretical and itself is quite problematic.

[@nancytoulouse6973]

This is important

[@michaelklopp7719]

There are two more: the Deutoronomist, most likely Moses himself and a much later editor called the redactor who put them all together; very possible Ezra:-)

[@hansdevriesvonmengden3639]

very interesting, but annoying how quickly you switch to "j" and "e". it makes me having to go back in the video to remember what it refers to

[@Stephans_History_of_the_World]

A good point. I make a note that when I even make a new video, I put some reminder on the side.

[@lyongreene8241]

The documentary hypothesis has lost favor in every country except among scholars in the US and Israel. It’s based on speculation and paralomania. You can find patterns everywhere to confirm your conclusion if you look for it. I don’t like how smug people are in pushing these ideas as fact

[@Stephans_History_of_the_World]

There are definitely alternatives now. But, as I said in the video, these alternatives also often accept P as a separate source and D as well. And often believe some merger of stories happened in Judah after Israel was conquered. DH is a rough first order approximation

[@fordprefect5304]

The Documentary Hypothesis has been proven to be correct. A team of scholars, all Rabbi's with PHD's has extracted many of the stories. The complete Noah J and P stories have been extracted. "A Textual Study of Noah’s Flood" is the name of the paper. links get deleted, you need to search.

[@lyongreene8241]

@fordprefect5304 Use the Minecraft enchantment table translator because YT wants to delete my comment: ╎ ∷ᒷᔑ↸ ℸ ̣ ⍑ᒷ ᔑ∷ℸ ̣ ╎ᓵꖎᒷ 𝙹リ ℸ ̣ 𝙹∷ᔑ⍑ ↸𝙹ℸ ̣ ᓵ𝙹ᒲ ᔑᓭᓭ⚍ᒲ╎リ⊣ ∴ᒷ'∷ᒷ ℸ ̣ ᔑꖎꖌ╎リ⊣ ᔑʖ𝙹⚍ℸ ̣ ℸ ̣ ⍑ᒷ ᓭᔑᒲᒷ 𝙹リᒷ. ℸ ̣ ⍑ᒷ ᓵ𝙹リℸ ̣ ᒷリℸ ̣ ℸ ̣ ⍑ᒷ∷ᒷ╎リ ⍑ᔑ∷↸ꖎ|| ᓵ𝙹リᓭℸ ̣ ╎ℸ ̣ ⚍ℸ ̣ ᒷᓭ !¡∷𝙹𝙹⎓. ℸ ̣ ⍑ᒷ ⎓ᔑᓵℸ ̣ ℸ ̣ ⍑ᔑℸ ̣ ℸ ̣ ⍑ᒷ|| ∷ᒷᓵ𝙹リᓭℸ ̣ ∷⚍ᓵℸ ̣ ᒷ↸ ᔑ ⋮, ᒷ, ᔑリ↸ !¡ ᓭ𝙹⚍∷ᓵᒷ ╎ᓭ リ𝙹ℸ ̣ リᒷ∴ ╎リ⎓𝙹∷ᒲᔑℸ ̣ ╎𝙹リ ᓭ╎リᓵᒷ ᓭ⚍ᓵ⍑ ∷ᒷᓵ𝙹リᓭℸ ̣ ∷⚍ᓵℸ ̣ ╎𝙹リᓭ ∴ᒷ∷ᒷ !¡∷𝙹!¡𝙹ᓭᒷ↸ ʖᔑᓵꖌ ╎リ ℸ ̣ ⍑ᒷ 19ℸ ̣ ⍑ ᓵᒷリℸ ̣ ⚍∷|| ʖ|| ⊣ᒷ∷ᒲᔑリ ᓭᓵ⍑𝙹ꖎᔑ∷ᓭ. ╎リᓭ!¡╎∷╎リ⊣ !¡⍑╎ꖎ𝙹ᓭ𝙹!¡⍑|| ↸╎↸ ᔑ ⍊╎↸ᒷ𝙹 𝙹リ ℸ ̣ ⍑ᒷ ⎓ꖎ𝙹𝙹↸ リᔑ∷∷ᔑℸ ̣ ╎⍊ᒷ ℸ ̣ ⍑ᔑℸ ̣ ╎ ∴𝙹⚍ꖎ↸ ⍑ᔑ⍊ᒷ ℸ ̣ 𝙹 ⊣𝙹 ʖᔑᓵꖌ ᔑリ↸ ∴ᔑℸ ̣ ᓵ⍑ ᔑ⊣ᔑ╎リ ʖ⚍ℸ ̣ ⍑ᒷ ⊣𝙹ᒷᓭ ╎リℸ ̣ 𝙹 ᓭᓵ∷⚍!¡⚍ꖎ𝙹⚍ᓭ ↸ᒷℸ ̣ ᔑ╎ꖎ ∷ᒷ⊣ᔑ∷↸╎リ⊣ ℸ ̣ ⍑ᒷ ↸𝙹ᓵ⚍ᒲᒷリℸ ̣ ᔑ∷|| ⍑||!¡𝙹ℸ ̣ ⍑ᒷᓭ╎ᓭ ᔑリ↸ !¡𝙹╎リℸ ̣ ᓭ 𝙹⚍ℸ ̣ !¡∷𝙹ʖꖎᒷᒲᓭ ∴⍑ᒷ∷ᒷ ⋮ ᔑリ↸ !¡ ᔑ∷ᒷ ⊣∷ᔑᒲᒲᔑℸ ̣ ╎ᓵᔑꖎꖎ|| ᓵ𝙹リℸ ̣ ╎リ⊣ᒷリℸ ̣ ⚍!¡𝙹リ ᒷᔑᓵ⍑ 𝙹ℸ ̣ ⍑ᒷ∷. ᒲᒷᔑリ╎リ⊣ ᓭᒷ!¡ᔑ∷ᔑℸ ̣ ╎リ⊣ ℸ ̣ ⍑ᒷ ᓭ𝙹⚍∷ᓵᒷᓭ ∷ᒷリ↸ᒷ∷ᓭ ℸ ̣ ⍑ᒷ ℸ ̣ ᒷ ̇/ℸ ̣ ╎リᓵ𝙹⍑ᒷ∷ᒷリℸ ̣. ℸ ̣ ⍑╎ᓭ ∴𝙹⚍ꖎ↸ ᓭ⚍⊣⊣ᒷᓭℸ ̣ ∷ᒷᒲᔑ∷ꖌᔑʖꖎᒷ ᓵ𝙹⍑ᒷ∷ᒷリᓵ|| ᔑリ↸ ꖎ╎ℸ ̣ ᒷ∷ᔑ∷|| ↸ᒷ!¡ᒷリ↸ᒷリᓵᒷ ᔑᒲ𝙹リ⊣ ℸ ̣ ⍑ᒷ ᓭ𝙹⚍∷ᓵᒷᓭ. ╎ℸ ̣ 'ᓭ ᔑꖎᓭ𝙹 ᒲ𝙹∷ᒷ ꖎ╎ꖌᒷꖎ|| ℸ ̣ ⍑ᔑℸ ̣ ℸ ̣ ⍑ᒷ ʖ╎ʖꖎ╎ᓵᔑꖎ ℸ ̣ ᒷ ̇/ℸ ̣ ╎ᓭ ᒷᔑᓭ|| ℸ ̣ 𝙹 ᓭ!¡ꖎ╎ℸ ̣ ⚍!¡ ʖᒷᓵᔑ⚍ᓭᒷ ╎ℸ ̣ ∴ᔑᓭ ᔑ ᓵ𝙹ᒲᒲ𝙹リ ᔑリᒷ ᒲ𝙹ℸ ̣ ╎⎓ ╎リ ꖎ╎ℸ ̣ ᒷ∷ᔑℸ ̣ ⚍∷ᒷ ℸ ̣ 𝙹 ⚍ᓭᒷ ∷ᒷ!¡ᒷᔑℸ ̣ ╎リ⊣ ᓵ𝙹⚍!¡ꖎᒷℸ ̣ ᓭ 𝙹⎓ ⍊ᒷ∷ᓭᒷᓭ ⎓𝙹∷ ᒲᒷᒲ𝙹∷╎⨅ᔑℸ ̣ ╎𝙹リ !¡⚍∷!¡𝙹ᓭᒷᓭ, ᓭ𝙹 ℸ ̣ ⍑ᔑℸ ̣ ᔑℸ ̣ ℸ ̣ ⍑ᒷ 𝙹⚍ℸ ̣ ᓭᒷℸ ̣ ╎ℸ ̣ ꖎ𝙹𝙹ꖌᓭ ꖎ╎ꖌᒷ ℸ ̣ ∴𝙹 ᓵ𝙹ᒲ!¡ᒷℸ ̣ ╎リ⊣ リᔑ∷∷ᔑℸ ̣ ╎⍊ᒷᓭ ᓭℸ ̣ ╎ℸ ̣ ᓵ⍑ᒷ↸ ℸ ̣ 𝙹⊣ᒷℸ ̣ ⍑ᒷ∷

[@Darlene-tk6qb]

Col. 2:8 Look out that no one takes you captive by means of the philosophy and empty deception according to human tradition, according to the elementary things of the world and not according to Christ;

[@johnking6252]

Everything written and spoken by man is subject to a large grain of salt, look around us today and there are groups that will argue, debate and even fight and kill over the simple interpretation of a law or story that was written only a year or two hundred years ago! Personally I choose to believe.......or ? 🌍✌️🌎🙏 Have a nice day 🌈

[@seanconway1154]

When Moses recorded these stories as is the most likely scenario he recorded them from the Elders of the Hebrews who would have committed them to memory. As a result the stories would have been mostly similar but with a few differences. This I believe is what we see in the text, a collaboration. They were written down because as the story says all the Elders died in the wilderness and it wasn’t enough time for anyone to commit the stories to memory as was the tradition in most ancient cultures & was the preferred method of communicating history and stories because you can give proper context and adapt the stories to changing times.

[@fordprefect5304]

*When Moses recorded these stories* Moses is a myth. Exodus never happened. Israeli archeologist buried Exodus under archeological evidence years ago.

[@fordprefect5304]

Israeli archaeologist Ze’ev Herzog provides his view on the historicity of the Exodus: *The Israelites never were in Egypt. They never came from abroad. This whole chain is broken. It is not a historical one. It is a later legendary reconstruction - made in the seventh century [BCE] - of a history that never happened*

[@fordprefect5304]

Also if you bother to read the bible and take notes. You will notice Moses has different father-in-laws and is buried in 3 different places.

[@ryanprosper88]

Laughable, even secular scholars date the song of Moses from the 13th century ​@@fordprefect5304

[@seanconway1154]

If you’ve read any history or mythology you might realise that names and titles were interchangeable so some people had multiple names or titles. You might also note that place names change over time. Which means that Sinai is probably not where we think it is and the place Moses is buried probably changed names over time. One doesn’t have to look very hard to see that it left his burial site purposely vague too to discourage worship of Moses.

[@KTPurdy]

So interesting

[@fatosshubert7272]

Ancıent Tur/Turanıan Language ıs the ATA language, and Genesıs 11.

[@BenSolomonIM]

You might find the work of Mauro Biglino around the translation of 'elohim' very interesting. Paul Wallis has got videos with Mauro on his channel 5th Kind TV. Mauro also has 2 books in English - 'The Naked Bible' and 'The Gods of the Bible' - both very interesting

[@earlygenesistherevealedcos1982]

Not just three. A tweaked version of the Tablet Theory makes more sense than the cold mess that is the Documentary Hypothesis. Did you know that some of the specific elements of the flood account claimed to be borrowed from the Babylonian version (releasing a dove for example) are divided between two supposed sources? It makes no sense that they borrowed from two sources, each of which have only half of the specific common elements of Genesis/Babylon accounts. Nor does it make any sense that both sources had all of the elements, and if they did, that they would not duplicate any of them in the Genesis account even though it is claimed that they duplicated things elsewhere as a matter of course. The flood account isn't less miraculous than the YEC imagine it, it is moreso, because when you read it through the lens of Christ it all makes sense.

[@fordprefect5304]

These papers go into great detail confirming your video *Differing Conceptions of the Divine Creator* *Documentary Hypothesis: The Revelation of YHWH’s Name Continues to Enlighten* Credit Prof. Rabbi Marc Zvi Brettler

[@thomasmathews-g2d]

Enid blytons fairy tales are more enjoyable

[@Miroslaw-rs8ip]

I have studied this nonsense in seminary and at best it’s someone’s theory and it’s preposterous! It’s a waste of time, Moses wrote the Torah which is clearly indicated in the Bible. I understand that it may have been edited some time afterwards.

[@ioofmoore5940]

Yawayh, jehova, are not real words and not how the tetragramation is said. If you're going to study Hebrew and it's history, it is pronounced HaShem, The Name, as it was only used by the high priest in the temple. It is the name of G-D which we are not allowed to know or pronounce, hence the replacement of HaShem. To continue to misuse or "pronounce " is erroneous only perpetuates a "wrong" word.

[@1thomson]

Google AI tells me that many biblical scholars claim that YH is the inhalation breath, and WH is the exhalation breath. If you try it, they do make a sound something like "Yahweh". I had never before thought that God's name was a form of onomatopoeia. I don't know why this is so appealing, but it is. It makes me feel that God is always with and in me as long as I'm breathing. Somehow, that's very comforting.

[@kumarg3598]

But YHWH does not spell hashem.

[@synergyworkingworldsapart6608]

Hi stephan, with respect I think you are barking up the wrong tree, in Genesis 1 and 2 in the KJV, i can see no contradictions whatsoever, but I can see two different slants to the same story and these slants are to prophecy Man's redemption by the Abrahamic Covenant and by CHrist. Not only that I can predict and explain the entire fossil record, These two books are perhaps the greatest text that has ever been written. Genesis is now unlocked like never before and the key is simple and Paul knew it and used it in 2 Corinthians 4:6. kzbin.info/www/bejne/qqqXpntsf7eMaqssi=iSHn1HiP_8qudqh2 .

[@universalflamethrower6342]

So basically you are your own authority with your own church, just another protestant pastor

[@adamc1966]

Recycled pagan myths sanitized into monotheism 😂

[@RightOnBro72]

@adamc1966, hey, Monotheism was a pretty new thing back then if you weren't a Zoroastrian, and I think they had at least 2 gods (light vs. darkness) themselves. Even the Hindus had/have many gods. Nowadays, if you dare worship even 2 different gods you'd be considered a "heretic." That's why Christianity had to say their 3 gods are really 1 in the same "god-head," although that makes zero sense. There are supposedly things his Father knows that Jesus doesn't know, and Jesus says "you will not always have me," but that he's going to "send you the Comforter." So, that means they're all the same? That's about as believable as the Greek pantheon.

[@jacktbugx1658]

Genesis That greek mythology plagiarized presented as Jewish story

[@plîoîlq_plîoîlq]

i just thought about something… Aaron Arab(s) 🤔 Air-ron Air-rab 🤔

[@richardhuddleston7086]

There's broke apart into Israel and judea so mote geniuses stories v pray stories and job stories

[@barnsweb52]

Read "The Origins of Judaism" - it's mythology.

[@davidhoward4715]

So is all religion.

[@DavidFMayerPhD]

This nonsense was a misunderstanding by Julius Wellhausen et al. There are NOT three documents, but only ONE. However, Wellhausen attempted to impose modern Western stylistic norms upon a book that is over 3000 years old and fails miserably. The notion of a consecution of sentences telling a coherent narrative is strictly a modern Western concept. In ancient Hebrew thought, the three "authors" were the multiple manifestations of the ONE Hebrew god, roughly analogous to multiple manifestations of Hindu gods of approximately the same era. It is folly to interpret ancient documents by contemporary criteria, a process that is fundamentally flawed.

[@stevelenores5637]

One author. Moses. Obviously like all other historians he used the available sources. 1- Abraham's history before Abraham. 2- His family's history while he was still alive. 3- His family history to the time of Joseph in Egypt.

[@njhoepner]

And your evidence for this claim is...?

[@stevelenores5637]

@@njhoepner All you have to do is read Genesis. 1-11 are before Abraham comes on the scene. Then you have the story of Abraham. Genesis ends with Abraham's descendants entering Egypt because of a famine. Exodus picks up generations later with Moses.

[@fordprefect5304]

And he buried himself in 3 different places and had multiple father-in-laws.

[@fordprefect5304]

@@stevelenores5637 *Abraham comes on the scene* [Genesis 11] 11:27 Now these are the descendants of Terah. Terah was the father of Abram, Nahor, and Haran; and Haran was the father of Lot. 11:28 Haran died before his father Terah in the land of his birth, in *Ur of the Chaldeans* *The Chaldeans do not take control of Babylon (UR) until 616BCE* Therefore the bible could not have been written before the end of the 7th century Moses had a time machine

[@fordprefect5304]

Besides this is what Israeli Archeologists have to say after discovering evidence burying Exodus. Israeli archaeologist Ze’ev Herzog provides his view on the historicity of the Exodus: *The Israelites never were in Egypt. They never came from abroad. This whole chain is broken. It is not a historical one. It is a later legendary reconstruction - made in the seventh century [BCE] - of a history that never happened*

[@gordonzill173]

I take it, that the way he speaks about scripture, he is not a Christian. Sorry. I don't take my theology from unbelievers.

[@davidhoward4715]

No, you take your theology from grifters who are teaching you crap.

[@gordonzill173]

@davidhoward4715 I'm not going to argue with you but I will pray for you.

[@folkeholtz6351]

Rubisch talk. No One have ever find these text: J, E and P. It is plain hypoteses. The story of flood follows the pattern of Babyloniens Flood story. But with different detaljs.

[@fordprefect5304]

Please explain J 12 The rain fell on the earth forty days and forty nights. // And YHWH shut him in. 17 The Flood continued forty days on the earth, and the waters increased and raised the ark so that it rose above the earth. / 6 At the end of forty days, Noah opened the window of the ark that he had made. // 8 And he sent out the dove to see whether the waters had decreased from the surface of the ground. 9 But the dove could not find a resting place for its foot, and returned to him to the ark, for there was water over all the earth. So putting out his hand, he took it into the ark with him. 10 He waited another seven days, and again sent out the dove from the ark. 11 The dove came back to him toward evening, and there in its bill was a plucked-off olive leaf! Then Noah knew that the waters had decreased on the earth. P 24 And when the waters had swelled on the earth one hundred and fifty days, 1 God remembered Noah and all the beasts and all the cattle that were with him in the ark, and God caused a wind to blow across the earth, and the waters subsided 7 He sent out the raven; it went to and fro until the waters had dried up from the earth. 40 day flood from rain 150 day flood from waters swelling up. Dove finds land a raven finds land

[@RightOnBro72]

@@fordprefect5304, [Great name, btw.] I need a little more clarity on what you're implying. This is very interesting, because although I have many doubts about the story of the Deluge, (Utnapishtim's was only a river that flooded -- not the whole planet,) I've never tried to distinguish different stories within. It seems that to get 2 different sources (J & P) you actually have to carve up the paragraphs. I've always read these events as happening as they're described, in-order. That would contradict the J & P theory. What is not clear from your rendition is that Noah lets the raven out first, and if this is just the 40th day, it's going to have to fly around for almost 110 days before it can land. Still, the raven never comes back. The dove comes back 2 or 3 times, each trip separated by a week, or 21 days max, and it's not totally clear if just because one has an olive branch, it's time to walk on dry land, yet. But these are all in the same paragraph of Genesis 8:6-12, all of which FOLLOW Genesis 7:24 where it says the waters were on the earth 150 days (rather than 40+21 = 61 days by my broadest calculation.) Of course, when Noah opens the door, the land is totally dry -- no puddles, no mud & no further explanation, and they go & sacrifice a bunch of the animals, which seems crazy if you only have only 2 or even 14 of certain kinds. Anyway, I'm just looking for clarity on how you see 2 different authors or writing-styles here.

[@fordprefect5304]

@@RightOnBro72 A group of Rabi's with PHD's in Bilical studies have extracted the 2 complete storeis. They call themselves "Project Tabs" A Textual Study of Noah’s Flood You will have to search for it as it will be deleted.

[@fordprefect5304]

The J Text 5 YHWH saw how great was man’s wickedness on earth, and how every plan devised by his mind was nothing but evil all the time. 6 And YHWH regretted that He had made man on earth, and His heart was saddened. 7 YHWH said, “I will blot out from the earth the men whom I created-men together with beasts, creeping things, and birds of the sky; for I regret that I made them.” 8 But Noah found favor with YHWH. // 1 Then YHWH said to Noah, “Go into the ark, with all your household, for you alone have I found righteous before Me in this generation. 2 Of every clean animal you shall take seven pairs, males and their mates, and of every animal that is not clean, two, a male and its mate; 3 of the birds of the sky also, seven pairs, male and female, to keep seed alive upon all the earth. 4 For in seven days’ time I will make it rain upon the earth, forty days and forty nights, and I will blot out from the earth all existence that I created.” 5 And Noah did just as YHWH commanded him. // 7 Noah, with his sons, his wife, and his sons’ wives, went into the ark because of the waters of the Flood. // 10 And on the seventh day the waters of the Flood came upon the earth. // 12 The rain fell on the earth forty days and forty nights. // And YHWH shut him in. 17 The Flood continued forty days on the earth, and the waters increased and raised the ark so that it rose above the earth. // 23 All existence on earth was blotted out-man, cattle, creeping things, and birds of the sky; they were blotted out from the earth. Only Noah was left, and those with him in the ark. // And the rain from the sky was held back. // 6 At the end of forty days, Noah opened the window of the ark that he had made. // 8 And he sent out the dove to see whether the waters had decreased from the surface of the ground. 9 But the dove could not find a resting place for its foot, and returned to him to the ark, for there was water over all the earth. So putting out his hand, he took it into the ark with him. 10 He waited another seven days, and again sent out the dove from the ark. 11 The dove came back to him toward evening, and there in its bill was a plucked-off olive leaf! Then Noah knew that the waters had decreased on the earth. 12 He waited still another seven days and sent the dove forth; and it did not return to him anymore. // Noah removed the covering of the ark, and he saw that the surface of the ground was drying. // 20 Then Noah built an altar to YHWH and, taking of every clean animal and of every clean bird, he offered burnt offerings on the altar. 21 YHWH smelled the pleasing odor, and YHWH said to Himself: “Never again will I doom the earth because of man, since the devisings of man’s mind are evil from his youth; nor will I ever again destroy every living being, as I have done. 22 So long as the earth endures, Seedtime and harvest, Cold and heat, Summer and winter, Day and night Shall not cease.” // 18 The sons of Noah who came out of the ark were Shem, Ham, and Japheth-Ham being the father of Canaan. 19 These three were the sons of Noah, and from these the whole world branched out. 20 Noah, the tiller of the soil, was the first to plant a vineyard. 21 He drank of the wine and became drunk, and he uncovered himself within his tent. 22 Ham, the father of Canaan, saw his father’s nakedness and told his two brothers outside. 23 But Shem and Japheth took a cloth, placed it against both their backs and, walking backward, they covered their father’s nakedness; their faces were turned the other way, so that they did not see their father’s nakedness. 24 When Noah woke up from his wine and learned what his youngest son had done to him, 25 he said, “Cursed be Canaan; The lowest of slaves Shall he be to his brothers.”26 And he said, “Blessed be YHWH, The God of Shem; Let Canaan be a slave to them.27 May God enlarge Japheth, And let him dwell in the tents of Shem; And let Canaan be a slave to them.”

[@fordprefect5304]

@@RightOnBro72 The P Text 9 This is the line of Noah.-Noah was a righteous man; he was blameless in his age; Noah walked with God.-10 Noah begot three sons: Shem, Ham, and Japheth. 11 The earth became corrupt before God; the earth was filled with lawlessness. 12 When God saw how corrupt the earth was, for all flesh had corrupted its ways on earth, 13 God said to Noah, “I have decided to put an end to all flesh, for the earth is filled with lawlessness because of them: I am about to destroy them with the earth. 14 Make yourself an ark of gopher wood; make it an ark with compartments, and cover it inside and out with pitch. 15 This is how you shall make it: the length of the ark shall be three hundred cubits, its width fifty cubits, and its height thirty cubits. 16 Make an opening for daylight in the ark, and terminate it within a cubit of the top. Put the entrance to the ark in its side; make it with bottom, second, and third decks. 17 “For My part, I am about to bring the Flood-waters upon the earth-to destroy all flesh under the sky in which there is breath of life; everything on earth shall perish. 18 But I will establish My covenant with you, and you shall enter the ark, with your sons, your wife, and your sons’ wives. 19 And of all that lives, of all flesh, you shall take two of each into the ark to keep alive with you; they shall be male and female. 20 From birds of every kind, cattle of every kind, every kind of creeping thing on earth, two of each shall come to you to stay alive. 21 For your part, take of everything that is eaten and store it away, to serve as food for you and for them.” 22 Noah did so; just as God commanded him, so he did. // 6 Noah was six hundred years old when the Flood came, waters upon the earth. // 8 Of the clean animals, of the animals that are not clean, of the birds, and of everything that creeps on the ground, 9 two of each, male and female, came to Noah into the ark, as God had commanded Noah. // 11 In the six hundredth year of Noah’s life, in the second month, on the seventeenth day of the month, on that day All the fountains of the great deep burst apart, And the floodgates of the sky broke open. // 13 That same day Noah and Noah’s sons, Shem, Ham, and Japheth, went into the ark, with Noah’s wife and the three wives of his sons- 14 they and all beasts of every kind, all cattle of every kind, all creatures of every kind that creep on the earth, and all birds of every kind, every bird, every winged thing. 15 They came to Noah into the ark, two each of all flesh in which there was breath of life. 16 Thus they that entered comprised male and female of all flesh, as God had commanded him. // 18 The waters swelled and increased greatly upon the earth, and the ark drifted upon the waters. 19 When the waters had swelled much more upon the earth, all the highest mountains everywhere under the sky were covered. 20 Fifteen cubits higher did the waters swell, as the mountains were covered. 21 And all flesh that stirred on earth perished-birds, cattle, beasts, and all the things that swarmed upon the earth, and all mankind. 22 All in whose nostrils was the merest breath of life, all that was on dry land, died. // 24 And when the waters had swelled on the earth one hundred and fifty days, 1 God remembered Noah and all the beasts and all the cattle that were with him in the ark, and God caused a wind to blow across the earth, and the waters subsided. 2 The fountains of the deep and the floodgates of the sky were stopped up, // 3 the waters then receded steadily from the earth. At the end of one hundred and fifty days the waters diminished, 4 so that in the seventh month, on the seventeenth day of the month, the ark came to rest on the mountains of Ararat. 5 The waters went on diminishing until the tenth month; in the tenth month, on the first of the month, the tops of the mountains became visible. // 7 He sent out the raven; it went to and fro until the waters had dried up from the earth. // 13 In the six hundred and first year, in the first month, on the first of the month, the waters began to dry from the earth; // 14 And in the second month, on the twenty-seventh day of the month, the earth was dry.15 God spoke to Noah, saying, 16 “Come out of the ark, together with your wife, your sons, and your sons’ wives. 17 Bring out with you every living thing of all flesh that is with you: birds, animals, and everything that creeps on earth; and let them swarm on the earth and be fertile and increase on earth.” 18 So Noah came out, together with his sons, his wife, and his sons wives. 19 Every animal, every creeping thing, and every bird, everything that stirs on earth came out of the ark by families. // 1 God blessed Noah and his sons, and said to them, “Be fertile and increase, and fill the earth. 2 The fear and the dread of you shall be upon all the beasts of the earth and upon all the birds of the sky-everything with which the earth is astir-and upon all the fish of the sea; they are given into your hand. 3 Every creature that lives shall be yours to eat; as with the green grasses, I give you all these. 4 You must not, however, eat flesh with its life-blood in it. 5 But for your own life-blood I will require a reckoning: I will require it of every beast; of man, too, will I require a reckoning for human life, of every man for that of his fellow man! 6 Whoever sheds the blood of man, By man shall his blood be shed; For in His image Did God make man. 7 Be fertile, then, and increase; abound on the earth and increase on it.” 8 And God said to Noah and to his sons with him, 9 “I now establish My covenant with you and your offspring to come, 10 and with every living thing that is with you-birds, cattle, and every wild beast as well-all that have come out of the ark, every living thing on earth. 11 I will maintain My covenant with you: never again shall all flesh be cut off by the waters of a flood, and never again shall there be a flood to destroy the earth.” 12 God further said, “This is the sign that I set for the covenant between Me and you, and every living creature with you, for all ages to come. 13 I have set My bow in the clouds, and it shall serve as a sign of the covenant between Me and the earth. 14 When I bring clouds over the earth, and the bow appears in the clouds, 15 I will remember My covenant between Me and you and every living creature among all flesh, so that the waters shall never again become a flood to destroy all flesh. 16 When the bow is in the clouds, I will see it and remember the everlasting covenant between God and all living creatures, all flesh that is on earth. 17 That,” God said to Noah, “shall be the sign of the covenant that I have established between Me and all flesh that is on earth.” // 28 Noah lived after the Flood 350 years. 29 And all the days of Noah came to 950 years; then he died.

[@ngeorgalis1]

In Genesis 1 God created man in His Image. The Image of God is immortality so God created man’s soul. In Genesis 2 God created physical man who after man’s fall from Grace became mortal. There is no contradiction here.

[@Stephans_History_of_the_World]

This was indeed what commentators began to say in the two centuries before Christ.

[@tbishop4961]

Yikes

[@uncle_ceejay]

the image of God referred to in Genesis means to rule. It could be that the ruling class seeking to justify their claim to the throne equates their kingship to divinity. The story of creation as we call it is nothing other than a political propaganda by the ruling dynasties of the time to justify their claims to the throne.

[@patrick764]

😂 Nice try.

[@bobertjones2300]

This is your flawed interpretation not supported by the text. Only two different versions of creation is supported by the text.

[@JesusIsaSlave]

the paralells in the lives of moses and joseph in the quran are astonishing, kzbin.info/www/bejne/o3bNi36QntqfjsU it mentions the incident of moses and khidr absent in the bible,