The Baby Reindeer Controversy Explained

Baby Reindeer is one of the biggest Netflix shows in the world right now. But alongside the success comes the unfortunate controversy, with internet sleuths taking it upon themselves to find and contact the real people depicted. I'm going to cover the controversy's as well as the ethics around telling true stories on a massive scale.
#richardgadd #babyreindeer #standupcomedy #marthascott #netflix
00:00 - Intro
01:36 - Series summary
02:13 - The journey to the screen
02:38 - Internet sleuths and the real Martha
03:19 - Did Netflix and Gadd fail to protect?
04:25 - Richard Gadd's response
04:43 - Martha actor's response
05:14 - Support for Richard Gadd
05:50 - The humanising of Martha
06:42 - Richard Gadd's brilliance
07:11 - The positive effects
07:47 - The ethics of telling true stories
09:18 - Final thoughts

[@NatManzano]

Baby Reindeer is important not just because of the themes, or just because of the visibility of victims of sa and stalking, but also because it is very well written and it shows that life is complicated. It gives visibility to bisexual men, too. Bisexual/pansexual people are more likely to suffer sexual abuse throughout their lives and have higher numbers of unemployment and other terrible things. I would also like to add that if Martha's character had been a man, people would be less keen on protecting her. And doing things differently depending on the gender of a person is sexist. I disagree with those who think it is a good idea to harrass her. But I also disagree with those who seem too keen to protect her at all costs, including speaking badly of Gadd who has done something incredibly brave.

[@hoathanatos6179]

It's a two-way mirror regarding bi/pansexuals being major victims of abuse and perpetrators of abuse, and they most likely affect one another. Gay culture is also filled with those involved with chem sex and rape with the decades of abuse and creating isolated communities built on trauma and abuse without proper psychiatric help for whole generations of gay people. I say this as someone who knows way too many fellow gay men who were violently abused and forced into addiction and sex slavery by other gay men involved in gangs in the Southwestern US. Who were drugged and gang raped by other gay men many times in their lives while those men didn't give a shit because they were just seen as sex objects and not people.

[@NatManzano]

@@hoathanatos6179 Those are not the numbers I have in front of me. You cannot leave people without support because they are not queer the way you like and then blame them for using drugs or being suicidal. A bisexual/pansexual person has more difficulty finding community and statistically is less out - bisexual men are only out 1 in 3. -, make less money and are more likely to be ostrazised by their families. A lesbian or a gay man is less likely to be abused or suicidal. And this is currently the truth. Statistically.

[@hoathanatos6179]

@NatManzano @NatManzano What you've said is statistically accurate, with bi people being able to hide much more easily, and because gay people know that they may completely lose familial support and thus put their whole existence into education so that they can be independent and survive. It doesn't deny the fact that when we look at those who are abused, and who abuse others, are more likely to be bi/pan. This doesn't mean that a majority of bi/pan people are monsters. It is still a minority.

[@thomazpank]

I'm trans, I grew up going to highschool with Richard, I suffered SA in my early teens and was victim of Gadd being oh so willing and ready to use homophobic slurs at school to put down me and my friends. He made my life a lot less easy, made my journey to be myself a lot less easy. Not a nice guy. Still doesn't seem to have really become one.

[@NatManzano]

@@thomazpank the show admits he has interiorized biphobia and also transphobia. It is not hidden. It shows a person that has difficulty accepting being queer and he has spoken about how feeling feminized was harder than everything else because he had been taught that it was the worst thing that could happen to you. The videos have been removed, but I saw a life show from years ago where he explains that was so wrong. The character and the person are flawed. I am sorry for what happened. I am trans too. But seeing the woman he falls in love with made me love the character.

[@freckledandred]

It was so brave of him to tell his story like that so publicly and I can only imagine how he's able to deal with the aftermath

[@great-garden-watch]

It’s a little ridiculous for anyone to have to silence their story. Typical victim blaming. If you victimize someone and people find out, ummm ya so what. Gadd made it clear that Martha has an illness

[@charlotteh8174]

Also, simply because Gadd proclaims something a Netflix support his claim.. it does not make it truth. Who are they to play Judge, Jury and public executioner. Who are you to believe a random person's claims without evidence?! Shame on your ilk for blindly believing and contributing to this awful situation.

[@josepherliz206]

So he says.

[@hoathanatos6179]

I don't think Richard could do anything to protect Martha's character as the real Martha immediately outed herself and put herself in the spotlight. Both in the show and in real life, she has shown massive signs of narcissistic behavior, which one would expect from a highly successful lawyer who had their ego destroyed in their youth. She would have immediately outed herself regardless of the work he put in because she knows the story and wants the attention.

[@josepherliz206]

Or is replying to a lie.

[@farrex0]

@@josepherliz206 The sensible thing to do, is threaten for legal action and either make a settlement behind the public eye or go to court also behind the public eye. Making it public, actually hurts her case both ways. Both in a legal standpoint and in a public standpoint. Her being in public, makes her a target. So, she has nothing to gain, other than attention by going public. Everything she has said publicly can and will be used against her in court. Any lawyer would tell her to shut up and not speak publicly. Because now, thanks to her lack of self-control. Everything she has said publicly will not only be used against her, but they can also countersue for defamation. She has so much to lose by going public, and the only thing she would gain is attention.

[@KeepTheDoubleSpace]

Loved this take, thank you. I think Richard should have been more responsible in his depiction, the whole "this is based on a true story but some details might be....etc etc" but it was up to network execs to protect him and the real people involved, which they clearly had no motivation to do. I think we could be looking at a case that sparks unfortunate president and a deep dive is certainly needed, before it becomes a literal inquiry.

[@AleisterCrowleyMagus]

I knew this would happen, and honestly it is both very predictable and very disturbing. Of course “true crime” internet sleuth types view anything claiming to be a true story a challenge or fun puzzle to put together and then share with the world regardless of outcome (I am reminded of Tori Amos fans turning on her when she stated that she had fictionalized aspects of an SA she endured when still an unknown pianist/singer. She wrote about the SA in the song “Me and a Gun.” It became ridiculous as fans “demanded” to know the man’s name, which weapon exactly he used to terrify her, and harassed any men they could identify who played music with her or was associated with her during that earlier time period. For her, and for the poor guys, it was a horrific experience). The ethics are soooooo muddy as I consider Gadd to be very brave in terms of telling his story, especially the SA as male victims of SA are tragically discounted, but also I have no doubt that Netflix rather cynically considered the “true story” idea to be a selling point and I don’t think they protected Gadd or the true life counterparts as well as they could have considering the reach and appeal of this show.

[@cinekizzle]

It was actually so wild to me to find out that people watched THIS SHOW and then turned around and tried to sleuth out who the real life stalker and abuser were. I saw an article about Gadd's instagram story asking people to stop, and a comment on the article was like "you can't tell a story based on true events and not expect people to try and identify the real people" um HUH?? It would have never ever crossed my mind to do that and it's really disheartening to see how many people watched this show, disregarded everything it had to say, and went on to harass people they suspected to be the real life perpetrators.

[@PMCFrontLines]

Just men. Men are more likely to be sexually abused.

[@teairabuchanan]

Yeah vigilante thinking is a weird flex

[@ycoyle2803]

I can’t stop thinking abou the show. I watched it thinking it was a true story in the same way “Fargo” was based on a true story at the beginning of the film but was actually fiction.

[@bees.857]

And now she's on Piers Morgan calling him a liar. Fantastic.

[@asbisi]

Maybe he is. His accusations against her are huge, he should present the evidence he claims to have. He plays HIMSELF in the series. Really?! That is so off putting to me.

[@bees.857]

@@asbisi That she stalked him? He has the proof. He didn't want her arrested bc she's mentally ill. If you haven't seen the show maybe.... Refrain from commenting. Maybe she should have deleted all her stalker comments off his Facebook if she was going to do a media tour.

[@amadeusw2678]

@@asbisi She went from never contacting him to sending him one letter, then 4 or 5 tweets, and said she doesn't know where he lives. She also researched Pier's profile, which is pretty weird, dude. You should watch the interview

[@Maliceuk]

​@@bees.857He didn't want her arrested as she definitely has mh issues, but then he does this. Which is probably much worse as now Joe public will be hounding her.

[@bees.857]

@@Maliceuk HE didn't do this. Y'ALL DID THIS.

[@Stubagful]

Yeah, solid take. Subbed. Been thinking a lot of the same things since I finished it. I think its strange that all the onus to emphasise "don't go find the real people a true story is based on" seems to be put on people that told it like Gadd when it should be a collective effort to make this behaviour an unthinkable course of action. I've read endless articles reporting on the developments Baby Reindeer that don't even make this point. It may seem like it doesn't need to be said, but I expected this to happen the second I heard about it. I think it should be a disclaimer on all coverage of media based on true events

[@KimberlyLetsGo]

I think if he wouldn't have told everyone that it was a true story none of this would have blown up about stalking the stalker.

[@LadyLanning]

Or if he had tried to anonymise it just one little bit. He couldn’t given victims the spotlight but doing a story that wasn’t literally his own with no regard to the obvious consequences.

[@shayshay513]

I think if she’d just shut up no one would have been sure it was her. She outed herself

[@sydviera]

I was shocked when you said this is your 4th video the pacing is wonderful and you're great to listen to, keep up the good work 😊

[@KimbalandTV]

Thank you so much for watching and leaving such a nice comment! 😊

[@alexsanderhoffmann2609]

I watched an old video from Gadd doing stand-up and that was actually funnier than portrayed in the series. Also in his original breakdown video there is no mention of a stalker. I wonder if he wanted to protect her, protect himself or if wasn't bothering him at that moment.

[@clarymoore230]

Another brilliant video! I thought the series was heartbreaking and brilliantly told a difficult story with empathy and compassion. I truly feel it's the responsibility of the individuals who have harassed those involved from the comfort of their computers to do much better with their lives- I feel there's a difference between being genuinely concerned by someone's welfare and the safety of others then jumping on a bandwagon and having a bit of a shout at and offload on somebody that has been fictionalised for artistic expression. Keep up the good work, locked IN for your next upload xx

[@KimbalandTV]

Thank you Clary! I think you have a very thoughtful and fair perspective on it, and like how you mentioned the difference between genuine concern and jumping on a bandwagon 🫡 💕

[@barbarab.7738]

They could've not say it's a real story or at least not act it himself. Real life Martha served time so she paid for her actions and I hope she also got help. And real life Darrien, didn't serve any time, and should've. If you are not going to report your abuser, at least take measures so no one else who is innocent gets the heat. It's very hard to take off, the shadow of being an abuser. I don't buy for a second that they author nor Netflix are naive about all this. It just makes them more than it will take from them. Very twisted.

[@miss1of2]

Yeah... I also don't really like the narrative that "it's not his responsibility to protect his abuser" when he is the public figure making a show about it.... I do believe that he had a responsibility to hide her identity better... And I would like for him to come forward and say that clearly in hindsight it wasn't enough... Especially, with the "she won't even recognise herself", when he used verbatim quotes from tweets that are still public...

[@reon_owo]

I think I agree, there is even deeper meaning how there is so many possible ways to hide, bend, be discreet and private- anything but seems like unconsciously everyone that had part of this wanted this to be out of the bag. There is no possible way no one single soul thought “maybe we shouldn’t add that” and now to the present its just excuse after excuse or unremarkable reasoning.

[@angelbedolla347]

Just want to correct that she didn’t do any time.

[@fabdragon2071]

Well also in the time period he did not report but may have reported since then. If that is the case the more vigilante justice the weaker the case becomes. Furthermore, we know that abusers in power have a hard time being taken down and investigations have to stay private if they are going to go anywhere. remember Winstead had someone secretly record him to use as evidence and he is getting a retrial.

[@stcntymcfckoff5805]

Unpopular opinion but richard gadd brought it on himself with the real life martha. He researched her and found out she had been prosecuted for harassing laura wray and he still cultivated a relationship then didnt make the slightest effort to disguise her identit so now she gets death threats. He should be naming his rapist

[@___ykc]

This channel will go places!

[@Miuu2]

Officially your 93rd sub!! Yay here before 100!!

[@kimberlybatton8485]

The actress is English and is using a Scottish accent for the show.

[@serenasmart-dg1cf]

SUCH an interesting deep dive - thanks Kim!

[@mlsb9591]

I think they could've said it was NOT a real story. I don't get the obsession of something being "real" to be powerful or significant. I mean Star Wars isn't real, LOTR isn't real, Stephen King's tales aren't real and so on. Fiction is useful, powerful and necessary. For me, it would've been just as amazing without the "This is a real story" and I think at ethical levels it would've been better and easier to say "I did what I could"

[@WilliamsPinch]

I think he made Martha too much the actual person, the likeness is really uncanny. Perhaps he could’ve changed some of those details so it wouldn’t be as obvious.

[@i67x]

New subscriber, want to hear more! Loved the show, addicted to reactions and analysis's of it!

[@Chimm7]

Damn ur doing pretty good for ur 4th video- kudos

[@Flowering_Glume]

Bingo! Antithesis 100% No one else has articulated so perfectly how people are missing the point like you just did. We may even have multi theses, exponentially as this unfolds. It's such a bittersweet clusterfuck!

[@stevendunkley8284]

It seems to me that Comedians of late are less about being entertainers doing funny standup routines but real life embodiments of Joaquin Phoenix's Joker, especially as far as deals with Netflix go. Katt Williams is another example. As much as I respect what he is doing I can't recall him ever telling a single joke which seems something of a prerequisite for someone who lists their occupation as comedian.

[@MacrWest]

How do people seriously feel the need to harass these people. You aren't a hero.

[@reon_owo]

Wow, so interesting!

[@KimbalandTV]

Thank you for watching and commenting! ☺️

[@reon_owo]

@@KimbalandTV i was gonna comment FIRST but fr very interesting video ive never seen the netflix film

[@nastjaangelova3671]

I think Richard didn't expect the show to blow up like this. Netflix should have taken precautions

[@miraclemay24]

I can't believe people actually did the main lesson of the series😭( don't stalk people, it screws up the victims and suspects) ... some people don't pay attention.

[@RH1812]

As in Laurence Olivier. The actor

[@mollyellery4346]

fantastic video - keep goiiiiiing!

[@KimbalandTV]

Thanks for watching! 😊

[@raccoon-boi-]

same mic as me tf!!!

[@josepherliz206]

Looks like he created a show based on a pretence but as it finally brought him some fame. Initially it was a sideshow. Later he gained wealth especially with Netflix. He lied from the beginning and has had to double down. When the truth comes out he'll have a lot of cash stored away but that's about it.

[@serenar4458]

hasan minaj totally debunked that hit piece that was written about him, he’s been vindicated! pls make a correction

[@bobbriggs9748]

Martha needs to sue, she was the only watchable part. There would be no story without her, pay her. I thought the movie was dark, boring and a pitty party of bad decisions.

[@ElanaVital83]

Obvious troll is obvious.

[@bobbriggs9748]

@ElanaVital83 I'm not a troll, there is no story without her. It would only be fair she gets paid. I did not like the show at all, but that's just my opinion.

[@ElanaVital83]

@bobbriggs9748 BS she's not getting paid for being an abuser. You're ridiculous

[@ElanaVital83]

@@bobbriggs9748 great. Some unimportant random had opinion. Whoopee

[@TariqRasul-pw1vu]

Get shreck to sort out his mrs come on people he needs to know princess Fiona is not who he thought she was i feel for him several movies later all that success and she done this to him so sad Fiona your no princess 😢

[@lorypicheca2351]

I dont believe Gadd. Thé séries is great art. It is not true. I think he had no idea of the popularity and is in over his head. He doesn’t have to tell the public his rapists name but tell the police. Or does he still want to leave the door open to work with him? I don’t trust this very talented man.

[@tamarazwinak1447]

I hope they both sue. The public would like to see the evidence. I felt sympathy for him until I saw her interview. Netflix may have made a mistake by claiming it was a "true" story. Why is the public discussion all about her stalking and little outrage about the brutal rape Gadd suffered? This whole drama is triggering on so many levels for so many people. Everyone is processing it at different levels.

[@ElanaVital83]

How do you feel sympathy for that woman? She lied so much!

[@tamarazwinak1447]

@@ElanaVital83 I never expressed that in my comment. Gadd however has great sympathy for her.

[@ElanaVital83]

@@tamarazwinak1447 No. He's still scared of her. As he should be. Stalkers eventually physically harm their victims

[@tamarazwinak1447]

@@ElanaVital83 Of course. However she disputes his account. What is more disturbing to me is the rape allegation. People seem far more outraged over "stalking" than anal rape. I don't get it. The magnitude of trauma with rape is far more severe. The public voyeurism and click bait is disturbing as well. He has sympathy for her which people seem to forget.

[@ElanaVital83]

@@tamarazwinak1447 He didn't add the details for a reason. Respect the man's decision and come off it.

[@hifellowhumans8393]

Victim blamers, get over yourselves.

[@PeteBennettUK]

Nice video. Happy to share channel building tips if you like. I have channels with hundreds of millions of views (not this one 😀)

[@thomazpank]

Richard, now Bi, used to be a bully at school and call me and my friends gay and a poof. I find it kinda sad that he used to do that to me and people around me and now gets praise for being open about himself. I was a victim of SA when I was an early teen and this made me isolate myself quite a lot at school and he was one of the group that would regularly pick upon me and my small circle of friends because he wanted to fit in and be cool. He added to my trauma back then. I am now a proud trans individual who has spent many years processing all that has happened to me. I hope Richards experiences have taught him some lessons about showing humanity towards others.

[@ElanaVital83]

Prove it

[@thomazpank]

@@ElanaVital83 which part? Might be difficult in some cases the person who SA'd me is a bit dead these days, thankfully. Prove I went to the same school? In the same year group? That's easy enough I could give you details of many many other people in our year as well but that's getting a bit into the privacy weeds. Where do you think he went for lunch? Scaf? Kenny's? Morrisons? Spar shop? Icy/chip van?

[@ElanaVital83]

@@thomazpank Prove you knew him. You're an anonymous account making claims. Prove it. Now you're saying it's a "privacy" issue because you have no proof. Fiona, is that you?

[@thomazpank]

@@ElanaVital83 holy batsh1t paranoid simps. 🤣 Rest assured no I am not Fiona. Essentially everything Richard has said needs some reciept of proof as well, prove he suffered seggsual abuse, prove he's Bi, any of this could just as easily be questioned. That you can see his face doesn't dictate that his words about the past or present carry any more truth. Also what could I tell you exactly that will satiate your desire to know I know him? What details of our school life do you know what could allow corroboration? You're not actually posing a question you yourself can ever get a satisfactory answer to you're just performatively supporting someone that you don't know and I'm willing to bet have never met. You can have the morsel of knowledge that he lived in Wormit(thats easy to find), during S4 after transfering to South Street the arguably nicer half of our split sight school he got a moffat and williamson bus home each day, this left from the south street bus bays. If you got a stage coach bus you had to walk to the bus station. Want a few names of teachers from back then? Dr Gilbert(history), Mr Bell(music), Ms Nisbett big fan of ABBA by the way. Mr dixon, Chemistry. The very first thing we all had to cook in home economics was a slice of toast with melted cheese topped with bacon and pineapple. All this is perfectly true but useless really since you don't know him to ask to corroborate it.

[@thomazpank]

@@ElanaVital83 you watched a tv show, you're now unironically paranoid that some lady from scotland is pretending to be some kind of hydra of fake accounts trying to take down Richard by alledging he used a slur 20 years ago. Do the math, if I was someone wanting to do any real harm to him I'd probably make up something a bit closer to today, a bit more damaging. What could I possibly share with you, someone who never went to school with Richard or myself, that would prove to you I went to school with him and knew him? How would you possibly corroborate what I could tell you? Do you have communication with Richard to a point where he could do so? Also bit tricky to do without opening myself up to being deadnamed all day long so probably gonna avoid interacting with you any longer since you seem to be a bit of a deranged fan, fiona 2.0

[@Sad_bumper_sticker.]

For privacy reasons creators on YT blur out authorship when scaring screens of social media posts. Also, you posed interesting questions.

[@KimbalandTV]

Thank you for telling me this. I have used KZbin editor to blur the remaining names :)

[@PMCFrontLines]

Martha is not vulnerable. She is a lying predator.