The banned weapon Russia (and the US) won’t give up

[@Vox]

Laura here, the producer of this video. A lot of you are asking about what accountability tools exist for committing war crimes. The International Criminal Court in the Hague in the Netherlands, which was set up in 2002, is one of those institutional tools. You may have seen that numerous countries have referred a criminal investigation to this court, and a prosecutor has started an investigation into the war in Ukraine, which includes the invasion of Crimea in 2014. There are many criticisms of the weaknesses of this court, including that many countries aren’t party to its jurisdiction. That includes Russia, the US, and even Ukraine (although Ukraine has given the court jurisdiction for this current investigation.) The US historically has resisted having members of their military tried in this court for alleged crimes. Another mechanism for prosecuting war crimes is setting up an ad-hoc tribunal. And domestic courts can prosecute war crimes, too - there’s some reporting that indicates Ukraine will be doing that. But any prosecution hinges on the arrest of responsible parties, including at the highest ranks, like Vladimir Putin. If criminal charges are to happen, these people would likely have to be arrested abroad, in a country that accepts the jurisdiction of any of these courts. It’s not unprecedented, but these cases are difficult to see to fruition and often take many years, which Milena Marin alludes to in our video. Here is some great reporting on the ICC and other obstacles to justice and accountability for international humanitarian law and the laws of war: www.newyorker.com/news/q-and-a/the-shadow-of-international-law www.nytimes.com/2022/04/06/podcasts/the-daily/ukraine-russia-bucha.html foreignpolicy.com/2022/03/04/icc-investigation-russia-ukraine-putin-war-crimes/

[@Ps.Hi78]

Thank you for the information I have been wondering about this for a while now.

[@s5r581]

Thank

[@blakeley38]

War is war casualties happen humans throughout history have continued this ! To think some paper will make militaries stop is honestly laughable

[@saimyusuf2152]

George W.Bush got away with destroying Iraq based on utter lies even ignoring UN's decision. That reason alone should have been enough to charge him for war crimes but it never happened....so all this fuss about war crimes now makes zero sense.

[@fish3977]

The US "haque invasion act" is pretty telling about the ineffectivenes of international law

[@shoking9825]

“So why do the worlds strongest militaries still use them” Because they wont get punished or blamed for it

[@fryphillipj560]

Punished? No. Blamed? Did we watch the same Video?

[@manishkumarpandey9702]

Best example is US 😂

[@AARGamer28]

Just like US and Russia duh 🙄

[@Ehito12]

exactly

[@acreativename7999]

@@fryphillipj560 they won't get officially blamed, we all know they do it but the people in power won't acknowledge it.

[@Jonas-ji2tg]

Unexploded bombs are a really big problem I live in Germany and to this day there are continuously bombs being found that haven't exploded yet and they are a big threat to residential areas. You can look it up there are more than enough cases

[@AC-im4hi]

At least you can blame past Germans for that.

[@GeorgeHutchins]

It is common in Germany to this date, to uncover unexploded World War Two bombs during building construction, at various sites.

[@harrio7793]

Same as in England, there are countless videos of them being blown up including I believe a 1000kg one found in a city last year

[@houseplant1016]

Why does Germany have bombs? Can someone please explain?

[@jon2001as]

@@houseplant1016 Because of the air raids of the allies. There were many bombs dropped and a lot didn't explode. don't know the englisch word for it, but in german they are called "blindgänger". 5.000 bombs are found every year and defused or controlled detonated.

[@creatureofrabbit2036]

"Up to 30% do not explode when they hit the ground." Wow, anything over half a percent seems terrible from a reliability perspective.

[@Ass_of_Amalek]

some of the rocket types russia uses allegedly have a failure rate of over 50%, presumably because they've been in storage for so long (not just soviet models, but old soviet stock). then their cluster munitions probably also have more than that 30% failure rate.

[@ASAP2525]

It’s not reliability it’s ment to deny the enemy of a area like a airport runway those are pretty much now land mines

[@AmxCsifier]

But what if it was intentional?

[@Theinatoriinator]

@@Ass_of_Amalek Even U.S cluster munition have a low relability

[@thebrightest1230]

I think it’s a feature, not a bug 😬

[@flynnmccoy5013]

When I visited Laos in 2018 we visited the charity that builds prosthetics for people impacted by unexploded bombs in the Vietnam war. I think they said with the right efforts only about 60 people lose limbs every year. Before they created awareness campaigns it was in the mid 400-500 range. Keep in mind these shells were almost 60 years old at this time.

[@AmxCsifier]

For me to expect any Russian official to face consequences, I need to know how many US officials faced consequences because of war crimes?

[@doctorf7501]

US cluster munitions are considerably safer than the Russian varies being used currently. They’re so different that they really shouldn’t be considered to be the same type of ordinance. For one thing, the bomblets self destruct if unexploded.

[@hexingcan]

@@doctorf7501 Tell that to Laos

[@saiganesh7502]

@@doctorf7501 can you please tell that to the thousands of people in iraq, yugoslavia,libya,laos,vietnam that died because of americas cluster bombs

[@formulatag5880]

@@saiganesh7502 yugoslavia?

[@m.n152]

@@doctorf7501 it's okay, just continue living in your comfortable bubble.

[@BuildinWings]

Serious question - When was the last time a war crimes trial even took place? Because from where I sit, the Conventions are little more than a gentlemen's agreement.

[@lordpotato9453]

In essence that’s all it is. The war crime trials only take place if the person who committed them loses

[@High_rise12]

The Serbian soldiers responsible for the Bosnian genocide where fund guilty of war crimes.

[@hiiamelecktro4985]

@@lordpotato9453 (if the loser doesn’t have nukes)

[@cool_sword]

Right now. The ICC is having at least one trial involving Darfur. As the old joke goes, war crimes trials are for Serbians and Africans. There have also been trials within nations (ex. Malaysia, I think, tried W and found him guilty), but those are even more toothless and probably not what you're thinking about. I know from our past policy (not ratifying the Rome Statutr, Bush-era policy, etc.) regardless of whether you agree with ex. the constitutional reasoning behind that policy that if any international court tries to try Americans for war crimes, there's a big chance we refuse to cooperate and the court could face a crisis of legitimacy. Could also be a concern with trying Russians, although if enough other countries of significant power want them tried, the concerns about legitimacy probably decrease substantially.

[@philippecr]

US and Russia both using them, war crime for killing civilians, but are they even bearing any responsibilities?

[@Dimaz42]

what's the consequences of committing war crimes? and have any of the crimes, especially by these random soldiers, ever prosecuted?

[@e4c5c3d5exd5]

if the US is involved, none.

[@worlds3061]

@@e4c5c3d5exd5 I mean Russians generals will get away with this too unless Putin said so

[@kingtarly499]

Most of the time like Saddam and his family they face death penalty in courts in their country but Putin isn’t any of them he has more nukes than any country in the world

[@gorrillaeggs4101]

As u see america can get away with it but Russia should be condemn. It’s who ever the feel like

[@tranbachuyen6655]

consequences only come if you lose the war and be left in ruined + weak state , that only happen for small and weak nation not superpower

[@JordanConnorRandall]

I just found out Tony Stark's Jericho missile was a war crime

[@ChevTecGroup]

Depends on if each bomblet was individually guided or not.

[@kalebgray1050]

@@ChevTecGroup it looked like it in the movie. Still a pretty sketchy weapon.

[@willg-r3269]

Fun fact: the original script for the first Iron Man movie was far more antiwar and subversive (Tony was a committed pacifist from the beginning, his big shocking revelation was that his dad was weaponizing his peaceful inventions for use by the US military and its proxies, and he created the Iron Man suit as a tool to help him stop them) but the political critique in the final movie was significantly watered down (particularly by shifting the core conflict so that the bad guys were the US's “terrorist” enemies along with the “rogue” defense contractor executive who was “secretly” supplying them with his weapons) likely due to the fact that the producers had reached a production assistance agreement with the Pentagon to supply cheap military equipment and extras for use in filming, and the Pentagon routinely uses these agreements as a way to comb through big-budget movies and force the producers to remove plot elements it finds ideologically objectionable.

[@curtiswhyte3297]

@@ChevTecGroup It actually doesn't matter. The US hasn't signed the treaty, therefore there use of cluster munitions in itself isn't a war crime. Using them deliberately against civilians, as with any other munition, is what constitutes the war crime.

[@goobot1]

The movie is in 2008 and I think they signed it in 2009? Either how the us didn’t sign it

[@aksmex2576]

I thought that sometimes these "bans" cannot be imposed on countries, that it is simply a nation agreeing to ban itself from using such weapons.

[@PoliceBlot]

It's nothing more than political theater because when push comes to shove the limits are let loose with very few exceptions

[@WhatHappenedIn-vt3vq]

UN law says we can't. Traditional NATO law, when we have none politicals heading it who care about the mission which I don't know which was the last decade where we had those, says we have the right to pursue enforcement I think it's supposed to be handled through appeals, then a court of some kind, then a Billy club to the face while modern global law frowns on it

[@aksmex2576]

@@WhatHappenedIn-vt3vq global law is long gone. That was tossed into the trashed before it even existed, atleast for the big countries. For the small ones it is enforced ofcourse.

[@Falcon0BR]

They forgot to mention, both counties did not sign up the ban on cluster bombs, so both sides are allowed to use. Russia and Ukraine

[@squidwardo7074]

well its called a convention instead of a law because we all (try our best) to mutually agree to not do these such things, mostly because we don't want the enemy doing it to us

[@gabbylikeskicks]

Permanent seats in UNSC: "War Crime Laws are more like... guidelines, than actual rules. Welcome to the real world"

[@mra.prasetio]

That's right, international law is weak. It requires states to voluntarily comply.

[@TheMaestro116]

Well...Blame the Covenant for trying to commit genocide on the human race.

[@deathbringer9893]

@@TheMaestro116 yet they failed

[@mohammedrayyan1007]

Yet the US used it, and Israel still uses it, but they don't punish themselves (since the US seems to be the world police) for committing war crimes.

[@Tillu_dream16-39]

I'm so glad India stayed neutral and provided humanitarian aid to the people Ukraine in these tough times, which was the right thing to do.

[@mantrakhandelwal6266]

@@Tillu_dream16-39 being an Indian, I am proud of my country at this point, more than ever !! 🇮🇳🇮🇳

[@ROSEPROD]

Yeah because nobody is going to stop the USA, they could drop Nukes w/o issues. They’ve done it before and I’m sure they will do it again.

[@electronicbamboo6764]

Yeah I kind of get why they keep it just in case but they shouldn’t use it unless there’s a serious threat to them and it won’t hurt civilians

[@joeyburns7990]

we dont really use them. we have them. but we really dont use them

[@Rullstolsboken]

The thing is neither Ukraine nor russia signed the treaty against clusterbombs, so the bombs themselves arent a "warcrime" its the act of bombing civilians thats the warcrime

[@stangota5187]

This is the same as why civiliian bombing in ww2 is not warcrime. There are no law on aerial attack on civilian target during that time. So, The Blitz, Allies bombing of France, Dresden Raid, Hiroshima, Singapore was not war crime.

[@Rullstolsboken]

@@stangota5187 its not that there are no laws now its that none of the parties involved have signed it, but the bombing of civilians regardless of what type bomb used is illegal and signed by both parties

[@KaterynaM_UA]

@Alien Wanderer kremlinbot.

[@olgasopilniak901]

@Alien Wanderer Well, the problems begin when Russia doesn't allow civilians to leave. They have not been holding green corridor agreements, not letting civilians leave. Not very nice of them to do that and then say ,, civilians decided not to leave,,

[@KaterynaM_UA]

@Alien Wanderer ok, account without a profile pic. xD

[@GeorgeHutchins]

Not to defend Russia, BUT the US Military used cluster bombs during the 1991 Gulf War, as one of my platoon members accidentally stepped upon a covered by sand unexploded cluster bomb, causing him to lose part of his foot & hand, after being blown about 15 feet in the air, while on patrol in 1991 IRAQ.

[@Jawadshahzad101]

@Alien Wanderer it’s anti Usa

[@Jawadshahzad101]

People say Pakistan os a synonym for hypocrisy. But i think Usa is the synonym of hypocrisy

[@eziokill9112]

It's not illegal in war. Just illegal 2 be used on anything but confirmed military targets

[@rolfs2165]

@Alien Wanderer You could argue that Russia is just doing the same as the US, and since the US is the "good guys", that must make it ok. It'd be a bad faith argument, but it could be made.

[@dr.OgataSerizawa]

There are no “rules” in war.

[@gianb3952]

Truth is, countries can do whatever they want as long as they have the force to not face consequences for it. Russia has all of the west against it, and they're rightfully suffering for it. Now all we need is for the west to be accountable too.

[@nikolaangelovski2252]

The americans commited way more warcrimes that russia did, they destroyed many aincent structures in the middle east, which they got away with, they bombed laos, vietnam, cambodia and yugoslavia with cluster bombs, which they also got away with, they bombed yugoslavia with enriched uranium causing increased cancer rates to this day, which they also got away with!

[@sartajsandhu2282]

And who's gonna hold the West accountable? Asia? lol

[@prelawnoob]

@@sartajsandhu2282 I hope there is a superpower from Asia or Africa

[@anonymousejones8742]

Russian isn’t suffering lol There currency isn’t now better than before the war ever started

[@slavic_viking9638]

@@lolSooner alongside Europe aswell

[@Hakiimthedream]

The US has to face that more times than we'd like to admit, we are apart of the problem

[@KaleunMaender77]

Glad you mention Kosovo and Yugoslavia. I mean, NATO did drop cluster bombs over the southern city of Niš on the 7th and 12th of May, 1999.

[@geoffreycharles6330]

No it was Serbia who used them.

[@complex_variation]

@@geoffreycharles6330 it was NATO, they confirmed it.

[@georgeantabi6025]

@@geoffreycharles6330 Serbia and NATO. Actually, who am I kidding, it was NATO.

[@kara88bg]

@@geoffreycharles6330 Seriously? Yep, in the middle of the bombing campaign where NATO has absolute air superiority at that point you seriously believe that Serbians brought up an airplane to bomb their own city comprised of vast majority Serbian population, and that happens to facilitate special parachute brigade, with cluster munitions of US origin with NATO designations just so they could blame NATO in front of whom exactly?

[@hesher3587]

Good

[@cjscala87]

Only problem is putting rules on war never works. How about a law that says invading your neighboring country is illegal

[@mrcoolz5541]

People would never agree to that

[@Alexander..69]

War justification : let me introduce myself

[@MASSIVEMAN-wb1zx]

There already is such a law. War of aggression is illegal according to the international criminal court, although they can't really enforce it in practise unless the aggressor loses in the end.

[@erickpalacios8904]

Wishful thinking.

[@johnconner4695]

@@MASSIVEMAN-wb1zx the international criminal court is not the supreme law of earth nor law of the land in the countries but poor ones. Lol they are nothing. So it is not illegal at all.

[@ghostpiratelechuck2259]

Worth mentioning Ukraine also refused to join the ban.

[@Julie-ip3il]

That’s only relevant if they have used them against civilians. Since they live near an aggressive superpower trying to take them over, makes sense when they wouldn’t want give up a weapon to defend themselves.

[@ghostpiratelechuck2259]

@@Julie-ip3il The issue is they aren’t so great at discriminating between military and civilian targets in general. It’s absolutely relevant in that you can’t claim weapons ban violations if you also didn’t sign into the weapons ban. That’s not complicated or controversial.

[@yuanjv]

oof

[@sotch2271]

@@Julie-ip3il well if they use it they use it on ukrianian soil...so who is gonna deal with it after the war russian or ukrianian ? That the problem from using ut in your own territory

[@Katamine1971]

Actually, last time I checked, cluster munitions aren’t banned. Only a handful of countries decide to ratify the treaty against cluster munitions. The USA, Russian Federation, Ukraine, Poland, China, India, Brazil, a lot of middle eastern countries, and a lot of smaller Asian countries didn’t ratify the treaty. Same goes with Thermobarics and WP which I see a lot of people say are also banned.

[@Sigismund-von-Luxembourg]

Yeap basically its a pointless treaty if none of the major powers (Russia, India, China and the US) agree to it.

[@cwill2127]

Yeah if you watched the video that’s literally what she says

[@fish3977]

US blaming Russia of warcrimes is just spidermen pointing at each other meme

[@Psyopcyclops]

Never Forget the 1967 cluster munition bombing run on Vietnamese villages by the Vox Media Air Force. 🌹😿🤌🏻

[@lockdown1776]

Last time I checked, the US didn’t walk into Baghdad and beheaded thousands of civilians!

[@un4giv3nyt43]

@@lockdown1776 the russians did ? can u provide a source i havent heard of this before

[@lockdown1776]

@@un4giv3nyt43 Bucha Massacre

[@YA_LUNNAYA_PONI]

@@lockdown1776 to be fair, not thousands

[@PostWarKids]

I'm beginning to think the USA thinks these rules don't apply to them, re: Yemen

[@thehumus8688]

there what is called "The Hague Invasion Act" so if International Court Dare to tried any US serviceman of Warcrimes, good luck for Neatherland for getting bombed in return

[@Weeboslav]

Technically,they don't. Who's gonna trial them?

[@snoop05]

Rules? More like guidelines

[@alexandervlaescu9901]

@@snoop05 More like suggestions.

[@tranbachuyen6655]

rules law and order exist to control and scare the weak

[@noahtylerpritchett2682]

We used cluster bombs in Iraq. We should not have. We should not even of invaded Iraq. But we did. In the end. Ukraine victim of Russia. Iraq victim of U.S. Same horror.

[@KaleunMaender77]

NATO dropped cluster bombs over Serbia too.

[@afkass4965]

This is the first American I've seen, accepting that the war on Iraq was wrong.

[@thelatenightgamer2624]

100%

[@worlds3061]

@@afkass4965 To be honest most Americans feels that way, they just keep it to themselves. Every single country on Earth that has been existed since the dawn of mankind have commited hineous crimes againts humanity one way or another. And my country too is not an exception.

[@BrumBrumBryn]

Wow. Really? America attacking Iraq because it invaded Kuwait is the same as Russia attacking Ukraine unprovoked? Big brain there.

[@hamedhussain7562]

US War in Laos & Vietnam : We don't mind using them. War in Russia : That's a war crime.

[@Aron-ru5zk]

Those wars are half a century apart…

[@knightawz]

@@Aron-ru5zk why does the date matter?

[@zx3215]

@@Aron-ru5zk ok, how about bombing of Belgrad in 1999?

[@Aron-ru5zk]

@@knightawz in the 60s majority of missiles and bombs were unguided.

[@knightawz]

@@Aron-ru5zk wouldn't that make it worse since its indiscriminately bonding areas including civilian populated areas

[@weirdsciencetv4999]

The munitions that remain are there to frustrate repair efforts, like on an airfield. As far as I know it’s not a malfunction

[@SkullKing11841]

Well they have two modes. One where some don't detonate until the battery runs out and one where they all detonate on impact. My understanding is that old cluster munitions either from poor design or age have a high failure rate and a lot of them just aren't detonating on impact or when the battery runs out. Newer smart cluster munitions don't have this problem like the CBU-97.

[@faithnfire4769]

There are different types of cluster bomb. Air dropped antipersonnel mines are what you're thinking of. (so small explosives and shrapnel plus mines). Others might be anti tank bomblets, or just normal explosives. That tends not to be described well when discussing cluster munitions. While the math of duds remains true (more simple bombs - > more duds), the antipersonnel mines are both intentional and sometimes more problematic (cause they tended to not have reliable self detonation systems, and older ones just didn't have them).

[@linusandersson1065]

You should probably mention that Ukraine is one of the countries that didn’t sign the cluster munition treaty and that on the map it said that they are one of the countries likely to stockpile cluster munitions

[@doggydude2668]

No no we can't do that my friend now delete your comment so noone knows (sarcasm)

[@vadnegru]

It's most likely left from soviet time. Despite ratification of anti chemical weapon treaty by both Russia and Ukraine we still had phosphor attacks in Avdiivka and Mariupol.

[@Rullstolsboken]

Exactly, the bombs are not illegal in this conflict as non of the parties involved have signed the treaty, its the use against civilians thats illegal but that include use of normal bombs aswell

[@linusandersson1065]

@@Rullstolsboken yes, since both parties hasn’t signed the treaty then the use of cluster bombs shouldn’t be considered illegal except for against civilians but all military actions against civilians are illegal not just cluster bombs

[@Rullstolsboken]

@@linusandersson1065 exactly

[@poornalingam6261]

Usa...is still using it now in Somalia...Yemen now...why you are not giving importance like in ukraine...humanity and human lives should be treated equally...

[@khalilahd.]

Agreed

[@emkultra2349]

They literally bring up Yemen and the conclusion of tye video is that the US is being hypocritical on this.

[@kipuvi9181]

I agree - but latter on in the video they DO acknowledge and show US hypocrisy

[@genocidegrand2057]

cause the us and west control the media and narative. you will not see them on youtube or tv

[@saravanankrish9423]

It's not Europe

[@stefpix]

The USA should lead by example: ban cluster bombs and recognize the international criminal court. Otherwise criticism of Russia gives legitimacy to whataboutism

[@psrdirector]

Sadly zero chance because of strong hostility to "surrendering soverignty" plus they don't want to address that USA Drone program has a lot of war crimes aspects as do many of the PMC,

[@tycoonruler6455]

US is a cat. Just mean and selfish and will think itself as the owner. Syria, afghanistan, vietnam and many more in the list. No country thought about human rights violation when US was bombarding other countries left, right and center and now when Russia has taken some action, all the NATO nations are acting like Saints.

[@TheIceCream1]

By recognizing the Inernational Criminal Court it would basicly make all its Nuclear arsenal irrelevant... USA cant do it, their whole foreign policy strenght is based on the fact that they can commit war crimes.

[@jed-henrywitkowski6470]

We liberated the world, with our ally's assistance by committing war crimes. Without doing so, the world is a much darker place.

[@anuclearpan4554]

@@jed-henrywitkowski6470 I am a patriotic American. our presence in many countries under the guise of "liberation" is at least very questionable. cluster munitions are NOT required WHATSOEVER in order to counter insurgent threats. cluster munitions are (generally) designed to do mass amounts of damage to unarmored targets in a very wide area. almost any other munition would do their job better in the context of a counter-insurgency operation, where high-value targets should be prioritized with maximum precision in order to minimize harm to the people we are 'liberating'. cluster bombs do not discriminate between combatant and noncombatant.

[@Quackxd]

I like that there is a rule "It is illegal to use this weapon in WAR", like war itself is some kind of a game to people

[@Comet-2011-W3-Lovejoy]

warcrimes

[@mochynmawr9579]

If there wasn't rules we'll all be dead.

[@karshdalal8894]

thanks for throwing light on US's hypocrisy!💪

[@chinookh4713]

The US doesn't intentionally target civilians their a difference. Russia is hitting cities with cluster bombs with no military installation insight US use of cluster bombs are used a terrorist compounds and typically try to avoid civilian caustilies unless absolutely nessacray

[@yonosapungga]

Usa civil war 2.0 _coming soon near cinema_

[@georgesos]

"International law" ,the joke still works...

[@sal5206]

I can understand the existence and the attempt behind ideologically following a set of them, but the fact that the greater society views them as black and white, good vs. evil, really makes you wonder how dire a state we're in. People realize it's all grey, no?

[@rafatejera329]

''still''

[@saiganesh7502]

its more of an international suggestion than a law

[@ShankarSivarajan]

@@sal5206 No, they don't. Most still view laws are moral systems rather than what they are: threats.

[@alexandervlaescu9901]

@@ShankarSivarajan The Geneva convention shouldn't be about morality. It should be about how to conduct war in such a way where we don't doom our species due to one country or one group or one organization or an individual.

[@shadowtiger1905]

Great video! Thanks for shining a light on these terrible weapons. One small comment: The symbol shown at 7:02 is for biological weapons, not chemical weapons. :)

[@Psyopcyclops]

They’re actually referencing biological bombs. They’re bombs filled with feces and methane gases collected from the portable toilets at the Super Bowl every year. They feed the crowd hotdogs, burgers, and super hot chilli nachos, and collect the refuse. One munition has the power of 3 Hiroshima bombs. 💥🤕🍔🌮🌶🌭

[@shubhbirla5500]

We know but we focused on the intention not symbol.

[@dr.OgataSerizawa]

@@shubhbirla5500 Your logic is elusive, at best.

[@shubhbirla5500]

@@dr.OgataSerizawa yeah I agree it is like the western civilization

[@dr.OgataSerizawa]

@@shubhbirla5500 How’s that, o wise one?

[@faqihabdurrahman]

i love thorough analysis

[@PHlophe]

wallah, it brushed over the other much more important. we all know why

[@rustyjona7384]

@@PHlophe you have to explain that…

[@nandy1256]

@@PHlophe Is it because of the clear and present danger?

[@PHlophe]

@@nandy1256 there's no more danger now than there has been in the past 8 months alone. what isn't presented to you with graphics. we live thru it.

[@sasha.g7115]

FRIENDS, VOLUNTEERS FROM EUROPE AND THE USA ❗ RUSSIA IS DESTROYING UKRAINE, MARIUPOL⛔ WE FIGHT FOR ALL EUROPE, WE NEED YOUR HELP ❗ COME TO UKRAINE PLEASE, THANK YOU ✊🙏

[@UVCMD]

Why not banning military combat units from entering urban areas? Hiding in that areas encourages war crimes and should be considered as a war crime as well.

[@elisnider8191]

because urban areas are where production takes place. even if the city is occupied by 100% civilians, if there are buildings that produce / store military assets, they are military targets. And anything supporting that building counts too, power companies are not safe from war, they are some of the primary targets

[@UVCMD]

@@elisnider8191 That is a reason indeed. But industrial and residential areas are often times seperated. Though you might need to go through a residential area to get to the industrial one. If your army is inferior, then you rely on asymmetric warfare, which is mainly abusing choke points and unclear environments with hit and hide tactics., Problem is, that to counter that, you have to either invest heavily in intelligence, reconnaissance etc. with uncertain results or you start targeting each and every location where there is even a slight chance of enemy encounter.

[@thetruth3068]

When your country is so powerful, they don't even care about committing war crime

[@graveperil2169]

its not a war crime

[@urokichinazesa]

@@graveperil2169 It's just a small trollin'

[@u.nforcesalx9892]

@@urokichinazesa all fun and games until your own government turns on you homie

[@theindo-germanguy8817]

USA

[@urokichinazesa]

@@u.nforcesalx9892 I mean, It already is, I live in an authoritarian country and after beginning of war it started to become even more authoritarian.

[@Quizantum]

if a country committed War Crimes, who would carry out the sanctions and consequences? especially if the country involved are the powerful one? or would it affect the underdeveloped and 3rd world countries only who have poor military power to fight back. The Rule of War guarded by international Law exist way back then.

[@kaitlyn__L]

Indeed, you need the cooperation of powerful nations to bring war crimes tribunals into effect, which is how come the USA has not been punished for their various military actions over the last few decades even when a lot of them would technically count as such crimes

[@dr.OgataSerizawa]

@@kaitlyn__L You have to break a few eggs to make an omelette.

[@kaitlyn__L]

@@dr.OgataSerizawa ok

[@yahooyahoo4102]

We need to ask the real question here, who exactly is the judge?? God??

[@kaitlyn__L]

@@yahooyahoo4102 clearly it’s nations, and The International Community, which means the USA has a huge amount of influence.

[@artistwithouttalent]

Me: * reads the title * "... So which one are we referring to _specifically?"_

[@leylayetmez]

Hats off to Russian Mod to convert Cruiser into Submarine

[@Nutty...]

Also hats off to Ukrainians who helped to convert the cruiser to submarine.

[@nabibbs2402]

Ukrainian missles gets hit by russian cruiser and converts itself into a submarine

[@avlan9074]

This advanced mil tech of Russian had turn an Cruiser to Submarine

[@paddington1670]

special underwater operation

[@fiachrabissett6629]

On March 14th there were photos and reports of Ukraine using cluster bombs too by Popular Front and Reuters. That's not talked about half as much as Russia using them, but neither Ukraine nor Russia has signed the Treaty of Dublin prohibiting them. Neither have a right to accuse the other of a war crime as long as they have not signed that treaty.

[@sergeyx6237]

There are a lot of evidences of using cluster bombs (missiles) and artillery against civilians by Ukraine to make a picture of russian war crimes for western media.

[@pretzelbomb6105]

The bombs are still legal in the laws of war, which is what the video stated. Therefore, use of them by a nation which has not banned them is not a war crime. The war crime allegations are the result of Russia using them on civilian areas lacking any sort of military targets, like in Kharkiv. Purposefully attacking civilians is a war crime.

[@BrunoHenrique-bg8kj]

Actually not a war crime, but it is recommended safety mechanisms to reduce as possible civil casualities. Precision guided weapons are optimal, but it creates such a niche that only a few business can manufacture in a way that it can be considered coersive and disruptive to think that only that kind of weapon can be deployed.

[@robinw688]

The high pitched sounds in the background music are really distracting

[@PatrickAndFriendsPRO]

DUDE. i paused and unpaused the video many times because i couldn't determine if it was coming from the music or somewhere in my house. poor choice of music there.

[@erik8467]

Interesting to see that there's no mention of one of the most recent uses of cluster bombs by the Azerbaijan in the 2020 Nagorno-Karabakh war where there is clear videos of their cluster bombs being dropped on a residential neighborhood

[@kriegguardsman9117]

Doesn’t point finger at US or Russia, so why cover it.

[@alperakyuz9702]

Well neither does it point to usage of artsakhi (armenian) cluster bombs on residential areas in azerbaijan, the video talks only about US and Russia.

[@hamedmas7742]

or saudi use of cluster bombs in yemen

[@xianseah4847]

Watch Patrick Lancaster, much recent use of cluster bombs.

[@Polo-rn8ly]

Armenia was firing smerch rockets to azerbaijan civillias.. Ganja city

[@DavidWoods255]

I've said it many times before and I'll say it again - no matter what criticism people level at Vox's written articles, their video production is top-notch. Atlas is by far my favourite series not just by Vox, but by any channel. You guys knocked it out of the park yet again. I loved this video.

[@MonkeSquid69]

Did we ask?

[@azamatabdymanapuulu1827]

There is no rules at war. Chaos is chaos

[@poledicavladan]

On May 7th, 1999 pilot of a NATO airplane dropped a cluster bomb on a farmers' market in the city of Nis, Serbia. As a result, 16 civilians were killed and 18 were injured. My cousin was killed. She was 26 and she was in the 7th month of pregnancy. Nobody will be punished for that crime and for who knows how many other crimes.

[@Slidan]

Vox, make Russian and Ukrainian subs when you make such videos, please. Make them useful for real.

[@hello-bg9hp]

актив как у пятиклассницы

[@timonoj]

You guys seem to have missed to show Spain as a known manufacturer of cluster munitions. They might not use themselves, but they're more than happy to sell it.

[@atifadib]

what more oxymoronic than "war crime".... Its like saying mudering is legal but you can't muder someone in certain ways!

[@jimcarlson6157]

learn what oxymoron means

[@dr.OgataSerizawa]

@@jimcarlson6157 👍

[@Karasyuk_one]

It’s so surreal to see in such videos my beloved Kharkiv where I lived and worked all my life

[@smileyr]

Be like me and just learn and accept the fact that the US will never be punished for war crimes. It is what it is at this point lifes not fair.

[@scarr1816]

No need to accept it knowing things could be better. Psalm 37:12-13 The wicked plot against the righteous and gnash their teeth at them; but the Lord laughs at the wicked, for He knows their day is coming. No one can escape the day of Judgment.

[@zxth]

Do something about it

[@tomar81]

Oh, how the turntables...

[@morningstar8187]

Why does it matter if no one will ever do anything about it?

[@perlasandoval7883]

some people tried but they are too weak to do anything about it at least they tried

[@ChrisLuc-d4n]

Well this is Awkward….

[@wildbill7267]

What a cluster fudge

[@telzamahel]

An excellent overview of the topic. I wonder if we could get any traction by turning attention to the companies manufacturing these munitions.

[@user-uy1rg8td1v]

Not all cluster munitions are the same. There are very safe CM with multiple redundant safety measures with timed self destruct options.

[@floppyfish2814]

As someone who's father lived through the NATO bombing of Yugoslavia, I appreciate you also mentioning the United States of America's insistence to keep their cluster munitions. Russia's use in Ukraine is horrific, and I denounce their military action completely, but it's always important to remember they're not the only one.

[@anjasakbar2075]

As long as Europe still buys Russian gas, the suffering of the Ukraine people will not end soon Peace for Ukraine,, From 🇮🇩

[@NeoEvanA.R.T]

hope for Yemen to find peace

[@skyejamss]

alhamdulliah masih ada netizen indonesia yang punya otak

[@pstrolling9657]

Ukraine has Russians pipelines, which supplies eu energy needs, so why is ukriane not shutting off the pipeline?? And not buying gas from russia is not an option for eu, if they don't want a recession

[@rolfs2165]

@@CoryPchajek It's not just that. Especially in Germany the political thought went that if we tie Russia closely to us economically, they won't start a war against us/our interests.

[@masterkamen371]

@@CoryPchajek Electric heating (aka air conditioners) are insanely expensive to run in Europe. Virtually no one in continental Europe uses as their main heater. It only makes sense on the seaside where the lowest temperature is like 6°. Nuclear power plants are just a dream for many European countries. The governments are not competent enough to run them.

[@logannaraine7952]

I worked overseas in Iraq as part of an eod team and I can confidently say this vidoe is accurate but is missing some interesting details. 1: some modern Russian cluster bombs are dual purpose. Either they act as traditional bomb or a landmine. 2: Russian made models create so many duds bcz if the cheap production techniques the American ones have s fail rate of about 1/100 compared to the Russian 1/3. I find it difficult whenever we call s weapon like this a war crime. Bcz Russia and the us haven’t signed onto the cluster bomb charter it doesn’t really matter. (Same with land mines btw). It’s just unfortunate

[@theonly5001]

It is a indescriminate act, to which civilians are most likely to be the victim of. If you want to defend these types of weapons, be my guest. But if you cause major harm to civilians you're plainly a war criminal.

[@loganbowers4206]

War is war use the most effective weapon

[@logannaraine7952]

@Ops Blac not really it’s a very different approach to handling them

[@kriegguardsman9117]

Agreed. Not a war crime, if no such rule exists for said force using them.

[@blublim3896]

The background music made me think that i was going deaf from my neighbour that always renovates their house every month

[@maxskubisz1103]

every country ever has commited a war crime

[@OutyMan]

It's only banned by countries who signed, so not banned at all. People make rules for "war", so countries stop declaring "war", and instead declare "police actions"/"special military operations". People make conventions, and countries do not sign them. Do you really think bureaucracy has any bearing on bullets? Grow up.

[@JobPWN]

You use the biohazardous materials symbol for chemical weapons in this video but I do not think it is correct to use this, because most chemical weapons are not biological in nature. For example sarin gas would not even be labeled with this symbol

[@mrjjman2010]

Yeah, wouldn’t it be like the skull and crossbones kinda thing that’s on chemical containers and strong household cleaning chemicals and such?

[@teethgrinder83]

So long as America, the supposed "policeman of freedom and peace" won't change then other countries will only point at them and say "why should we change?" But there's too much $$$ in the military-industrial complex unfortunately

[@teethgrinder83]

@@richardg1426 well he did end the Korean War, reduce conventional military power in favour of nukes (I'm not a fan of nukes at all but this was the beginning of the Cold War so I understand), and wanted to promote the collective strength of allies and strengthen the Third World rather than have America police everyone. On the other hand he was involved in a couple (at least) of coups so....swings and roundabouts? Lol I mean I'm from the UK so we are far from blameless historically and now, it's just we are a LOT less militarily powerful now

[@theodord.3586]

Real journalism. Staying objective.

[@Overcharged_Microwave]

Everyone: "We will never use weapons against civilians." Russia: "what does civilian mean"

[@stas_epic]

Thank you for shedding light on these attacks. And don't let the criminals fool everyone.

[@kriegguardsman9117]

“The US is not one of the 102 states parties to the 2008 Convention on Cluster Munitions, which prohibits these weapons and requires clearance of their explosive remnants as well as assistance to victims.” -Human Rights Watch Organization

[@jamaly77]

American Servicemembers Protection Act, or as we call it "The Hague Invasion Act". You really don't need enemies with "friends" like that. Can't wait for China to surpass the US but ngl it is scary and entirely possible that the US will use nuclear weapons to stay in global power if that day comes.

[@youngheart17]

It is important to note - that if your enemy attacks from within a civilian area, you can still strike those area, as long as the military benefit outlast the civilian harm. Incidental and involuntary damages caused to the civilian population during a military attack should not be excessive in comparison to the direct military advantage obtained.

[@kaymish6178]

The problem here is not attacking military units dug in in urban areas, it is about using indiscriminate weapons in those urban areas. If enemies are dug in amongst civilian structures discriminate weapons must be used.

[@youngheart17]

@@kaymish6178 True.

[@olgasopilniak901]

Russia doesn't care about rules. There were caught conversations between russian generals and some of their orders. Their goal is to cause as much harm as possible. Have you heard of Bucha massacre? They are shooting civilians with guns, how is that a military advantage? They just don't care

[@dzonikg]

US attack Serbian cities even there was no military in them..i call that war crime

[@plutonai4520]

If it is illegal to target civilians in war why are sanctions allowed

[@vulkunvision]

USA ‘You used cluster bombs’ RUSSIA ‘So did you’ Touché

[@mattfavaloro350]

Thank you finally somebody is stating the truth it doesn't matter what treaties searching an unconventional weapons of war weather that be the 97 treaty to Outlaw landmines the treaty to Outlaw cluster munitions. It is not a war crime no matter what you think if certain countries did not ratify that treaty they are not to be held accountable because they didn't agree. America Russia China are typically going to be your countries that don't ratify a lot of these trees to outlaw different weapons of war so when the media is talking about these war crimes being committed they lied to you. Russia did not ratify the treaty against cluster munitions they're not a party to it and cannot be held accountable in a war crimes Tribunal. Just like America didn't ratify that treaty as well

[@Aka.Aka.]

We must hold the US accountable just like everyone else!

[@rustzz8]

Good luck

[@nexsus7453]

We can’t oppose daddy USA

[@jieqiangluo5487]

and japan?

[@Aka.Aka.]

@@jieqiangluo5487 Oh you want to talk about the past? Sure Japan should pay reparations to the ones they invaded, but so do the British, American, Belgian, Russian, German and every other colonial power!

[@nxt_tim]

@@Aka.Aka. Not only that but Japan also has to admit their war crimes in the first place, they still haven't to this day... at least most other nations you mention have done that to some extent

[@bruh-ml6ce]

Yeah, I remember when NATO was bombing my country in 1999 they used Cluster bombs as well as depleted uranium bombs. It was horrible

[@T1Oracle]

Because war is evil and is only ever fought for greed and ego.

[@fuckedlaptop364]

but you forget war is an art, and when done the right way (the old way) its beautifull

[@thezebiano]

Why is it so difficult to live peacefully.

[@justsomeguywithasurprisede4059]

There can be no peace without war. Its like saying Death has a meaning but without the concept of life

[@fuckedlaptop364]

war is part of life, and let me ask you, since when peace was present? it never was pal, and never will

[@thezebiano]

@@justsomeguywithasurprisede4059So... When does that end then? I want peace, and peace inherently means "no war". Yet, I cannot have peace without war, which paradoxically means peace will never happen? Interesting take.

[@thezebiano]

@@fuckedlaptop364 My life has been pretty peaceful mate, and I'm happy it has. I wish it continues to be that way, and I also really wish for others to have the same as me.

[@quantranhong1092]

Evolution is the product of warfare between creatures same species or not. Which is still need to compete with each other through some form of war. Either you step up your game or you lose. Since we become the top most predator, the only thing that remain is ourselves to compete against, hence war, between group of people, ethnic or nation, just like wolf packs killing themselves for territory and food.

[@USMCKong0311]

No point in banning the weapon when criminals don't care about laws. It's the same argument 2A ppl use.

[@joan5150]

You should do a video like this on the US drone strikes 👍🏽

[@Psyopcyclops]

You obviously don’t know Vox. They’ve already done a video on “How the US created a disaster in Afghanistan”. And they have an article on the “Unsettling Facts Of Drones” where they talk about the US drone strike program. They’re pretty consistent in their messaging, even if you don’t agree with their politics.

[@ducklingphallus]

Yeah they should do a drone strike video except its just a 20 second clip of from a Predator drone circling your house before it gets turned into a crater.

[@haydndouglas4111]

You should stop pretending you care

[@ayrifik35]

pretty hypocritical of the us to call out Russia for war crimes

[@sunlynnhatchett3983]

All I took away from this is that Tony Stark is a war criminal.

[@gustavobrito3655]

hahahah you got me

[@24alexash]

‘War crimes’ shouldn’t be a thing. War should be a crime period.

[@AGenericAccount]

you can tell that they are extremely effective considering no one will give them up.

[@nigamanandabehera3854]

Thanks for showing the war from both sides. Not just from one side like most of the western world.

[@bulletfood]

Laura, informative video. I am a 20 year USAF Ammo vet and have maintained CBU-97 and CBU-105 cluster bomb munitions during my career. While I am not necessarily a fan of older CBUs, the newer generation of SFW (Sensor Fuzed Weapons) have made vast improvements from the Cluster Bomb Units of the 60s and 70s. The CBU-105 WCMD uses smart munitions to target heat sources of vehicles. If the sub-munition does not detect a valid target, it self destructs in mid-air. The CBU-97 and CBU-105 are amazing force multipliers that can neutralize an enemy armored column with a single munition.

[@cryofsolace4840]

The high pitched ringing in this video is pretty annoying

[@simratsingh1416]

I hate this world!!!

[@charliegerrie]

6:22 Way to go Greece for being the one country to make cluster munitions but not to stockpile them!

[@dogutun]

Guys, what is that background noise ? It's like chalk on board.

[@nxt_tim]

I actually really like that sound, there's something eerily soothing about it

[@mtadams2009]

To reduce war the leaders, their families and friends should have it serve on the front lines. Not just the working poor. I think that would end cluster bombs but also end wars all together. It’s easy to engage in war when you have no skin in the game.

[@Lokeso]

Why don't presidents go to war? Why do they always send the poor?...

[@laasmimaher]

Ukraine shouldn't use human shields in the first place

[@justanormalguyhere2408]

Bro they choses to fight for the country

[@laasmimaher]

@@justanormalguyhere2408 Yeah agreed 👍

[@popkapocahontas]

as arabs, who use human shield againt USA

[@at_]

Russia be like “Geneva convention more like Geneva suggestion”

[@marcusmunoz2779]

They keep saying words like “war crimes” as if that word means anything. A crime is only a crime if there are consequences for that action.

[@wb6mc129]

Yeah well on paper there are consequences so it still is a crime

[@knightawz]

@@wb6mc129 doesn't mean anything If only exists on paper....

[@wb6mc129]

@@knightawz then the zodiac killer isn't a criminal

[@osmanmemisevic2164]

@ 2:06 - What about the soldiers who are hiding among civilians in residential areas? Obviously they are free to shoot at the enemy who are in the open field, but can't be shot back at by the enemy? It appears that the Ukrainian forces are doing precisely that; urban warfare. Whilst the Russian forces are in the open like a sitting duck. Please correct me if I am wrong.

[@Aron-ru5zk]

Obviously the Ukrainians have to be in or around the city to defend said city, and the Russians should be taking civilians into account when engaging.

[@osmanmemisevic2164]

@@Aron-ru5zk Well, I guess both sides should be, should be...

[@twistedyogert]

Given the precision of modern guided munitions, I've always thought that cluster bombs would be rendered obsolete. I've also got a question. Sometimes professional armies or rebel groups use their equipment and military assets in proximity to civilian structures. So what is to be done? If one does nothing then the enemy wins because it has free reign in those areas. So you have to stop them somehow. The only way to stop them without blowing these assets up and killing a bunch of innocents is to fight the enemy directly. But that also means a higher casualty rate among troops. Every single soldier has a family or someone who loves them so that hurts too.

[@claverse5478]

Guided munitions and cluster have different uses iirc, cluster should be for wide area damage like AOE and PGM is for precision strikes on specific targets

[@alperakyuz9702]

Well, in the presence of civilians you have to answer 2 questions 1-What can i do to reach my military objective with least civilian harm 2-is this harm excessive For example striking a surface to air missile launcher which can potential shoot down a 100mil fighter aircraft while killing a passing by civilian is legal, while striking a crowded marketplace and killing hundreds of civilians to destroy a single apc that is being repaired is not. And even in case one if you have a feasible way of destroying that SAM launcher without killing civilians, you ought to use it.

[@alperakyuz9702]

While pgms may make CMs (cluster munitions) obselete, in order to do that you must always know the target with a metric accuracy, while in order to use cluster munitions you must know the coordinates with an error of a few hundred metres. Secondly pgms are designed to engage point targets while CMs are designed to engage area targets, for example columns of tanks advancing.

[@pretzelbomb6105]

There’s already reasons listed in the Geneva Conventions for how a protected target can lose it’s protected status. The main one, of course, is if the military is using it. If your enemy turns a church into an ammo dump, shooting it is not a war crime. If they put an air defense system on top of a shopping mall, collateral damage to the structure is not a war crime (within reason). If your enemy is storing and repairing APCs in crowded public areas, they are effectively using their own population as a living shield and any allegations of war crimes can very easily be turned right back on them.

[@federubio2519]

the very concept of war crimes is absurd. War in itself is a crime against humanity, you either go all out or not at all

[@leehoward5370]

Yeah. It’s to minimize unnecessary suffering, but that’s ironic and contradictory to what’s it for.

[@qtluna7917]

Whoever selected the high-pitched background noise needs to learn a lesson in accessibility. This is not proper audio for some chronic ailments.

[@DYKTTATUOBLVD]

Ukraine however, has sold bombs that are exactly the same to Azerbaijan which were used against innocent Armenians in 2020. It went completely unnoticed by the world. Now the Ukrainian government can actually see what they sold and used. The whole thing is sad.

[@mephisto4618]

What's even scarier is the fact that our countries came together through diplomacy in decades for peace but just wrote these lies on paper for human lives.

[@parrotgaming21wat15]

What

[@skanthaadsigns]

Almost every military force in the world has such weapons

[@loganahlers4833]

You can’t put law/rules on a war.

[@chrisklugh]

War Never Changes.