The Beatles Outer Circle - A Follow Up

[@batesblues]

I love your videos. You are genuine and fun. Don't change a thing.

[@TudorSmith]

What a nice thing to say. Thank you 🙏

[@adrianburn7178]

Keep up the good work. Your videos are always enjoyable and informative.

[@TudorSmith]

Thank you very much!

[@FloraAshley]

I can’t believe people were so rude to you, Tude. That’s sad and ridiculous. Sad that social media is so toxic and that people have no manners and think being rude to someone (anyone) who is putting out content is ok. I’ve learnt so much from you even though I’ve been a Beatles fan as long as they arrived on the radio in Britain. They felt like family. I just enjoyed their music and ignored most of the rubbish people used to spout. I enjoy your vids immensely as I hope you know. Big hug and many thanks for your enlightening KZbin vids. X P.S. have a cuppa! That always sorts things out.

[@TudorSmith]

That's the way of the world though eh?

[@FloraAshley]

@@TudorSmith sadly it is now. I had to correct my sentence as I hadn’t completed my thought on one. Was tired when I wrote it. X

[@BeatlemaccaAR]

Interesting topic! Thanks Tudor!

[@TudorSmith]

Thank you 🙏

[@streaming1950]

You owe no one an apology! I love your work.

[@TudorSmith]

I appreciate that!

[@edwardmeradith2419]

Dude, you’ve got balls to put stuff out there - the social-media aspects of KZbin can be viscous. I’m too sensitive to do it- f the critics. I enjoyed both videos very much. Thank You!

[@TudorSmith]

Thanks. I’m learning that for you negative there are literally hundreds of positives. I’m not taking the bad ones to heart 👍

[@daviddowns7552]

Astrid was a beautiful gal imo.

[@bennyfactor1]

To launch Apple Paul came up with the ad idea of a typical middle aged, middleclass dressed one man band with the caption 'This Man Has Talent'. The straightest man he knew was Alistair Taylor. So he got the job

[@TudorSmith]

Seems to me that Paul demonstrated his art capabilities as often as John did!

[@williamneillgross3926]

Thanks for the follow-up! This was super cool, I saw some photos I've never seen before.

[@TudorSmith]

It had to be done - a lot of great names were raised from the previous video 👍

[@Larrymh07]

It's interesting to note that some great bands had early, brief and influential members; Stu Sutcliffe, Syd Barrett, Skip Spence, Brian Jones, Ronnie Laws, Ramsey Lewis...

[@TudorSmith]

Can you imagine the impact had those band members remained in the bands? Would the bands better or worse? For the Beatles, Paul May never have taken to bass and we know how good he is playing that!

[@Larrymh07]

@@TudorSmith Yes, I agree. Especially on your point about Paul's bass playing!

[@Ptpop]

The only experts on The Beatles are Paul and Ringo….living that is.

[@TudorSmith]

And they have trouble remember things!

[@LapsangTe]

They should do a biopic about "Magic Alex". He seems to have been a classic mythomaniac. He believed he was a genius and probably didn't intend to fool people, but it became an expensive lesson for The Beatles. Later on he started a security company and tried to sell a bullet proof car, which turned out to to be everything but bulletproof when tested.

[@TudorSmith]

A man of great dreams and aspersions no doubt. But perhaps didn’t have the actual skills but just the gift of talking it all into existence?

[@alanstead7617]

Thanks for your work. 😀

[@TudorSmith]

Thanks for watching 🙏

[@davidkornblatt851]

I’m sure it’s evident that Beatles phenomenon was created by an ARMY of people!

[@TudorSmith]

Yep I totatlly agree!

[@tyronewhitehead3123]

Thankyou Tudor

[@TudorSmith]

My pleasure. Thanks for sticking with me 🙏

[@hubridgell4511]

A good idea I think would be to do a 45 or so minute video on each of these outer circle people- they might be more interesting than the inner circle people! You could even interview some of them or people who knew them, family members etc

[@TudorSmith]

That’s an interesting idea- I wonder if anyone would consent to an interview. There were many intriguing characters in and around the Beatles that’s for sure.

[@hubridgell4511]

@@TudorSmith there are -- kiss podcasts don’t scoff- who get MASSIVE VIEWS with interviews with outer circle type guests - people LOVE THE NITTY GRITTY STORIES!!!

[@hubridgell4511]

Three Sides of the Coin is one such podcast- tons of outer circle type related guests- in my opinion those might be the VERY BEST GUESTS TO HAVE FOR A PROGRAM LIKE YOURS! You can also get their friends and family members too. They are excellent guests too.

[@doktoruzo]

Lol, nice one Tudor. I knew you had opened a can of worms after your initial video on the 'inner circle'. What about a video entitled ...'The Hangers-On'. I'm sure that would be a very long video. Or 'Wives, girlfriends and lovers'...that would be an interesting one. (Dot Rhone, Iris Caldwell, May Pang, Bettina, Francie Schwartz...I could go on!)

[@TudorSmith]

Oh no! Can you imagine the flak if I even dared to mention someone as a "hanger-oner" although I'll bet there are more than a few! 🤣

[@doktoruzo]

@@TudorSmith .😂🤣

[@artangel4172]

Hi Tudor, great video! both videos! the blue meanies again hey? well it all be sorted out with tough love! keep it up and ignore! just one thing, i dont think that Mrs Ono had such an impact on the beatles and the beatles music , on john lennon yes but the beatles ...really ? m not sure. waiting for Pete Best wishes

[@TudorSmith]

Thanks. Yeah a Pete Best special edition snob the cards 👍

[@philipeaton3102]

good some i have heard of some i have not heard of

[@TudorSmith]

Cheers

[@KenthSandstrom]

Well done

[@TudorSmith]

Thank you 🙏

[@jeanmyers1787]

When Harry married MM people started to call William, Kate, Harry MM the Fab Four I was totally offended, stating there could only be one Fab For 😅

[@TudorSmith]

I’d be offended too 🤣

[@hubridgell4511]

Norman Hurricane Smith also had a big hit himself as a singer in 1972 with Oh Babe. There’s a performance on Johnny Carson of Oh Babe that’s worth watching! It’s a Dixieland type song style that McCartney was influenced by too.

[@TudorSmith]

The engineer becomes the pop star ⭐️

[@hubridgell4511]

@@TudorSmith He definitely made an excellent record and it is still played today.

[@buttercup1765]

Thank you!

[@Aloysir]

What about Pete Best ???... you've heard about the guy ?...

[@TudorSmith]

That’s going to be a video in its own right.

[@johnbyrnes7912]

Tudor upon reconsideration of my reply to your reply you may add another "outer" to it ! 💈🤡🌈

[@johnbyrnes7912]

Gee yer fast U just spotted it as I did it! 🤡

[@debussy2002]

Mal Evans ?

[@scottbrower9052]

First comment!

[@TudorSmith]

First reply to first comment 👍

[@shippy555]

Another great video. The 2 pictures at 12:04 - 12:10 are of engineer Ken Scott, not Geoff Emerick. Still a good video though!

[@TudorSmith]

No No No! Another incorrect picture! Thanks for highlighting it though. I'll leave it in for posterity 🤣

[@cynthiaforsythe8989]

We Beatles fans don’t mean to be rude. We are just slightly obsessed 🤩. The Beatles had a large outer circle. I’d say the difference between inner and outer circles is that the inner circle became like family, and some literally were. Stuart was very close to John - probably should be in the inner circle. Thanks for including Freda Kelly, Geoff Emerick, and Ivan Vaughn to whom we owe a great debt! With the exception of a few who shall remain nameless, the Beatles had some excellent people around them. Thank you for these videos!

[@TudorSmith]

You’re welcome and thanks for interacting 👍

[@Paisly17]

Don’t apologise for idiots Tudor. You do the best stuff 😊 Are Pete Shotton and Ivan Vaughan still alive? Another video?

[@TudorSmith]

Definitely a good idea for a video (or two). Sadly both Pete and Ivan have passed away.

[@Slydeil]

Sad to hear of the comments issues Tudor, keep up the interesting and entertaining videos. You have made a good and thoughtful list of those people which are the main influences and help for the band. The "sticky out ears" interview with Astrid Kirchner is a new one to me. Just goes to show the strange twists and turns which help the creative process. Her photos and style guidance was essential to their development. Here's a few other names in the same frame of reference Harry Benson - Photographer who was with them on the early tours Mohammed Ali (C. Clay), Paris hotel photo hearing about their first US No.1). Richard Lester - Film director whose ground breaking film techniques style and humour in A Hard Days Night helped cement their image and style. Dick James - Music Publisher who helped set up Northern Songs and was a close associate till the end when he sold the company behind Lennon and McCartney's back, which ripples are still felt today.

[@TudorSmith]

There were so many people involved in this huge organisation right? I was more far-reaching than just four musicians writing songs and making albums.

[@Slydeil]

@@TudorSmith Yeah and a lot who were crucial to how things turned out. Their taste and talent were also remarkable, they barely put a foot wrong until after Mr Epstein's death.

[@ModernNomad]

Great great stuff, don’t mind the crazies in the comments

[@TudorSmith]

Cheers. They are but a minority!

[@JoeBlow-fp5ng]

I'm glad you included Pete Shotton and Ivan Vaughn.

[@TudorSmith]

They had to be included 👍

[@ernesttbass6420]

I remember hearing how the lyric "Please lock me away" from the Peter and Gordon song "A World Without Love" used to crack Lennon up. I can easily believe that! Really enjoy your videos Tudor!

[@TudorSmith]

🤣 they had such different writing styles!

[@thereunionparty]

Hi Tudor. Excellent as always. I can't imagine why anyone would want to give you grief for any of your Beatles related videos. I hadn't realised until now what a key figure Ivan Vaughan was. I can see from the photos he remained involved with the band long after the early years. But what if, as you say, he hadn't introduced Paul to John at that summer fete in 1957? And what a claim to fame to have for the rest of his life! Of course, there might be some people you have missed even now. I would suggest Richard Lester who directed A Hard Day's Night and Help (and John in How I Won The War).

[@TudorSmith]

Ivan was an integeral figure in the Beatles story that's for sure. And yeah, I reckon the list is endless. Perhaps an outer-outer-outer circle. Hmm...going a bit far I think 🤣

[@derekroberts6654]

i want to apologize and say i hope it wasn’t any of my comments that started controversy. This has me brainstorming… if you could just carry into the 70s solo years… JUST the 70s. could you talk about the inner circle of each? like Denny Laine and the rest of the Wings members, Jim Keltner, May Pang, Richard Perry and Olivia Trinidad… etc i know it’s a bit much.. i’m just brainstorming … please take you time, it’s not important..😄😉✌🏻

[@TudorSmith]

A Wings circle would be very interesting (for me at least). So many band members came and went but added valuable contributions. I'm pretty sure all of your comments were of the pleasent type 🤣 Keep 'em coming.

[@1rsalc]

Ah great, you included Freda Kelly!

[@TudorSmith]

A serious contender for back office staff!

[@aceopinions]

Fascinating video. I also enjoyed your last video. The several people with varying degrees of connection and influence had to bifurcated into the "inner" and "outer" - and you did a splendid job. I have been an obsessed Beatle fan for 60 years, own just about everything they recorded, and about 50 books on the Beatles about their music, biographies, and associations. - I think that gives me some credibility in assessing your information. Although I knew of everyone you mentioned , I did learn some things I did not know!!! Ignore any negative comments - fantastic job !. Many thanks , Tom

[@tomasfagerberg6323]

Thank you for that last take, about the destiny. You can also called it predestination. Of course you're right about this. The Beatles were predestinated to come together and making history. As you said in one way or another they would have come together and made it. With or without Ivan Vaughan or Brian Epstein. But because Ivan and Brian and all the other important figures around the Beatles was there, they were also predestinated to be a part of the history. Of course things can happen that change the route, but then you just find another way to come to the goal.

[@TudorSmith]

Parallel universes and all of that stuff 😉

[@hazwilliams1]

Tudor are you coming to ‘i am the eggpod’ live at opera Holland Park on July 1st? Should be a great Beatles day

[@TudorSmith]

I didn’t even know about that event. I’ll look it up 👍

[@robertbyrne522]

Thank You so much for this 2nd Beatles Inner Circle video. I enjoyed both the first and the second one immensely. And Thank You for all your hard work. Not to look a gift horse in the mouth, I don't know if you had considered May Pang as well. Maybe you could do a video on her in the future. Once again, Thank You for these most enjoyable works. 👍🙂

[@TudorSmith]

Glad you enjoyed them! May Pang. She could make an interesting subject. It was I feel a liberating period of John's life - just my opinion though.

[@stuarttaylor4269]

just a point.............the first picture you show of Ivan Vaughan is actually singer SIMON SCOTT singing into the microphone, he had a minor hit with "Move it baby " in 1964 and sang on READY STEADY GO odd times in 1964/65, you showed him in the previous video and his face as been bugging me ever since.....now at 1.30am I finally remembered his name.........nice follow up ...well done.

[@TudorSmith]

No No No! I tried so hard too! I wonder if I can edit that first picture out. Whilst googling for Ivan Vaughan pictures that one came up. I kind of felt it wasn't him. Doh! Thanks for clearing it up though - especially since it was bugging you in the wee small hours!

[@Clinton-p7z]

Tudor in what you were saying about people making accusations which are not true, Ignore it. Critical analysis is only relevant if it is understood by all people, rather than the reverse.

[@TudorSmith]

Indeed. Many people have different opinions right?

[@jjag1027]

Excellent " outer-inner" circle! Great research and narration! Can't beleive some would criticize with all your hard work ! Anyway there's a lot of us who get it!🙏Love this channel...all you need is Love!... somebody said that somewhere I think?👍✌️🫡

[@TudorSmith]

You say one thing wrong and it all goes to pot!

[@MrPorter7]

Good job! I appreciate your efforts! Keep it up.

[@TudorSmith]

Thanks a lot!

[@kennyglesga]

What next, Tudor? the Beatles outer-outer circle, as in off-off-Broaday, the best Beatles' fan clubs? The best Beatles' tribute bands? Easy, the Fab Four!

[@TudorSmith]

No more circles please 🤣 I’m getting dizzy!

[@kennyglesga]

@@TudorSmith lol, windmills of your mind. Truly, you're doing great work that deepens our knowledge of the fab four. Perhaps, the best Beatle art work would be a future project.

[@1rsalc]

@@TudorSmith Speaking of tribute bands. Have you heard the Dutch band "The Analogues"? They don't dress up with costumes or wigs, but they play Beatles tunes note perfect with the same type of instruments that the Beatles used originally.

[@johnbyrnes7912]

Well I enjoy your videos no matter what as it all keeps it alive and mistakes engender great feedback which adds to the enjoyment Tudor tally ho ! 🤡🌈💈🤠

[@TudorSmith]

Onwards and upwards right? I don't mind being corrected on my mistakes...that's how I learn - as long as the corrections are valid. If I know I'm right (because the Beatles story says so), then I'm not entering into an argument. My subscriber count is going up and yet my favourite long term subscribers are still with me. 🤡

[@johnbyrnes7912]

​@@TudorSmith I'm not sure where you place me Tudor but though I could see the omissions and some of the errors I thought I'd hold my trap this time - hope you appreciated that ! Now if you ever get to the outer-outer-outer-outer circle I may not be able to hold it back - WARNING !!! 🎱🌈🤡💈

[@TudorSmith]

I welcome corrections - because I know there will be a few. Thankfully I'm not going to get to the outer-outer-outer circle so I spared from you not holding back 🤣

[@johnbyrnes7912]

​@@TudorSmith ohh! Yer thwarting my creative cruelty Tudor - rats ! 🤡💈🌈

[@Clinton-p7z]

That was a super account of The Beatles Outer Circle Tudor delivered with expert knowledge. Thanks.😊

[@TudorSmith]

Thank you 🙏

[@coonpoon1]

Another fine job Smith. Starting to get hooked on your content!

[@TudorSmith]

Thanks very much. The videos are for the most part my thoughts and opinions so maybe not always 100% spot in but that’s what the comments section is for - to allow folks to discuss. Thank you for watching though 🙏

[@johndixon3631]

I enjoyed both videos, thanks Tudor. It's a subjective topic so not everyone will agree - but I pity people who have got nothing better to do than complain. Amazing fact about the Klaus riff on Carly Simon's "You're so vain." You referenced a Rutles joke about tight trousers in the first video, and I've been enjoying their music over the last few days. If you haven't heard "Questionnaire" please give it a listen - I think you'd enjoy it. Peace brother.

[@TudorSmith]

Thanks John. Yeah subjective! Almost everyone has accepted that and gladly given their own names up for offer. Ah the Rutles Archaeology album. A masterpiece from Easy Listening to Shangri-La 👍

[@jeanmyers1787]

Great fascinating videos ❤

[@tomscott7271]

Thank you for both videos on those that influenced the Beatles success. Keep up the great work!

[@TudorSmith]

Thanks Tom 👍

[@TomDougherty-co7hg]

Well done!

[@TudorSmith]

Cheers 👍

[@janvrolijk9126]

Nice work. Good video. Thanx.

[@TudorSmith]

Thank you too for watching and commenting!

[@staceykeeley4219]

Surely Yoko should be in the inner circle no?

[@TudorSmith]

Depends on who you talk to! Many have commented suggesting she should be in the inner circle and others suggest not!

[@elwin38]

@@TudorSmith Yoko is complicated because there are many reasons why she should and should not be in ANY circle.😉I'm a fan of the Beatles and have watched 1000's of videos, documentaries, etc. and some of those comment sections are in the 10'000's and there are so many comments on Yoko good and mostly bad. Make sure you do your homework on Yoko because some of your so called fans will flag you down if they dont like it!