The BEST Argument Against Calvinism w/ Dr. Braxton Hunter

In this interview, Dr. Braxton Hunter (‪@BraxtonHunter‬) offers what he believes is the strongest argument against Calvinism. This interview was filmed at CCv1.
Link to Dr. Hunter's channel: / braxtonhunter
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#Apologetics #Calvinism #ExistenceofGod

[@LightBright708]

Calvinism distorted my mind and relationship with Christ for about four years until I realized it was a false teaching. After that it took years for me to recover from thinking that everything was determined and my relationship with God was an arranged marriage. My joy and peace slowly returned and now I'm on fire for Christ! Thank you Lord Jesus!

[@michaeltorah4002]

The opposite of what you claim has happened to many Calvinist. Many find great joy and security knowing their life is ordained in the knowledge of God. So it then comes down to opinion. God makes it clear he ordains events. He ordained Joseph brothers selling him into slavery. Joseph even says you did it for evil but God did it for good. God is in control of All events, even the bad ones

[@dudenotsoperfect9366]

Michael torah couldnt have said it better! Bless brother

[@aletheia8054]

Jesus said it was an arranged marriage. That’s what Jewish marriages were.

[@johndardi1334]

@@aletheia8054 It might be an arranged marriage BUT it’s not a FORCED marriage. In Jewish culture in an arranged marriage you have a free choice to say no. Just like you have a free choice to tell God yes or no. Calvinism says God creates a man without the ability to repent, then commands him to repent, then punishes him for all eternity for not repenting. Answer me honestly… does that make sense to you? Because it doesn’t make a bit of sense to me.

[@aletheia8054]

@@johndardi1334 Yes the marriages were arranged. The father of the groom picked the bride. The father doesn’t pick one that says no. Has there ever been a Jewish woman said no?. Yeah probably. But that’s not the Jewish custom.

[@MrPeach1]

God predetermined that I would never want to be a Calvinist.

[@justincampbell8903]

Instead of having a non-Calvinist speaking for Calvinists, it might have been more worthwhile to actually have a Calvinist be part of the discussion.

[@Brotheral-pb1oj]

That's like asking a truly mentally disturbed person to calmly and clearly explain to us why they are crazy.

[@ReRe-yl6dq]

@@Brotheral-pb1oj no its like having a fair and balanced discussion instead of just a one sided view point.

[@Brotheral-pb1oj]

@ReRe-yl6dq I understand what you mean, and I agree! Yet, I have seen the same situation on the pro-calvinist side. I think that neither side can be effectively productive when they promote their theology in this fashion.

[@holdenmontgomery2273]

It’s perfectly appropriate for somebody to speak on a belief that they disagree with without consulting someone else who believes it. Should I involve a Muslim in the conversation every time I want to disprove Islam?

[@georgepierson4920]

@@holdenmontgomery2273 Be sure to lie about everything that Islam teaches just like Protestants lie about the Catholic Church.

[@wakeupfool7734]

As soon as I hear anyone talk about "fairness" concerning God my guard immediately goes up. In Romans 9:21 "Does not the potter have power over the clay, from the same lump to make one vessel for honor and another for dishonor", I would recommend extreme care with judging God on his decisions. The reality is that to us Christians who have studied his word, there seem to be verses that speak to both sides of this argument.

[@swagstyle33]

You have misinterpreted Romans 9. The potter choosing the clay for honor or dishonor doesn't mean that the clay has no choice over this. In Romans 9:21, Paul is referencing the story of the potter and the clay which we see in detail in Jeremiah 18. Jeremiah 18:4 KJV: "And the vessel that he made of clay was marred in the hand of the potter: so he made it again another vessel, as seemed good to the potter to make it." They clay BECAME marred. This is more indicative of free will rather than a potter ARBITRARILY choosing to dishonor some clay. Then you look at the rest of the chapter Jeremiah 18 which goes on to say "If that nation, against whom I have pronounced, turn from their evil, I will repent of the evil that I thought to do unto them" and this shows even more CLEARLY that God is fair and gives free will. God's fairness isn't some divine mystery beyond our comprehension--it is something we can understand and which is consistently demonstrated in scripture. Furthermore, the context of this passage in Romans 9 (and Jeremiah) is about how most of the physical descendants of Abraham were rejecting the gospel, and not all the physical seed of Abraham are the children of God. Just as God sovereignly chose Jacob (the nation) to bring Jesus to the world-even though tradition would have chosen Esau-God has the right to sovereignly choose whom to save based on His own will. Just because the Jews WILLED to be saved based on race or tradition, and just because they called Abraham their father-this did not make them saved. They would have to meet God’s conditions by which He chooses to save men. For more clarity and the refutation of ALL calvinist interpretations of the ENTIRETY of Romans 9, check out this link: israeliteindeed.wordpress.com/calvinism/understanding-romans-9-without-the-calvinist-spin/

[@HonrbleMention]

​@swagstyle33 we do not have free will. That cane from the Sadducees. According to Josephus, the Sadducees beliefs included: Rejection of the idea of fate or a pre-ordained future. God does not commit or even think evil. Man has free will; "man has the free choice of good or evil".

[@CA-or9ix]

​@@HonrbleMentionif we don't have free will, then we aren't responsible for anything. Therefore, what's the point in Jesus dying for our sins? His crucifixion becomes redundant, and even insulting, in a sense.

[@HonrbleMention]

@CA-or9ix automatically your focal point is on you, us. You need to research your church history. Where is free will written? Where is the sinners prayer of invitationalism by Billy Sunday written? Why was theology removed? Why do all modern-day evangelical charismatic self-determination salvationalist Christians & churches all adopt the same universal statements of faith? Understanding that you're dead in sins and trespasses and are at enmity with God FIRSTLY, then with you learned knowledge by answering the questions you might figure it out. For if I tell you won't satisfy you. You must learn it for thyself. Statr at the trial of Martin Luther at the trial of worms. The best modern-day theologian to learn from is RC Sproul. Here's a great session on what happened to church theology. Introduction to Refomed theology. Be open so you can be objective.

[@HonrbleMention]

@@CA-or9ix kzbin.info/aero/PL30acyfm60fXICLFyvTlD36Bh-ypGcrXe&si=14hofaCvUCxp_F1L

[@blackpatriot3]

“A man’s heart plans his way, But the Lord directs his steps.” ‭‭Proverbs‬ ‭16:9‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

[@pepethunder]

Dejteronomy 30: 19 This day I call the heavens and the earth as witnesses against you that I have set before you life and death, blessings and curses. Now CHOOSE life, so that you and your children may live God has a lot more nuance than you give the bible credit for. He does direct the steps a man takes, but the man also has choice. Take pharoah for instance. God tells Moses that He will harden Pharoahs heart and so He does, in order that all the plagues would happen. It was a punishment, however, Pharoah clearly was already an evil man. God simply hardened his heart so that he would not change his ways and let the people go just yet. It was his punishment. In Hebrews 13 we have Paul telling people not to harden their hearts to God like the israelites did in the wilderness In Proverbs 28: 13-14 it warns that whoever hardens their hearts will fall to calamity Mark 8: 17 jesus asks if the apostoles if their lack of faith is because their hearts are hard We make our choices, but salvation belongs to God. He can chose to harden your heart and cement you in your ways as punishment, hence why Isaiah 55 says “SEEK the Lord, while he may be found, call Him while He is near”. It is a warning that we may miss our chance and never find Him again, be it because of His return, our death, or simply becoming too fargone. Because He can chose to tie us to your wicked ways and harden our heart. Let us never take away the responsability of our own choices. We deserve nothing but death from the Lord, and the hardening of our hearts as punishment is just. But God is not at fault for our wicked ways, yet His mercy was given to us “I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy” Exodus 33. If we have no free will, all the lessons I have quoted here have no purpose. I fear people who believe solely on predestination (which is ofcourse biblical) are trying to fit God into the small box of their minds in order to understand the unfathomable. God’s ways are His own, and His predestination as presented in the bible goes hand in hand with choice, both from Him and from us. Do not be deceived into thinking choice gives you something to boast about, because in boasting that you chose God and thus earned salvation you actually prove you have no fruit of the spirit and therefore no salvation. The change God does to the hearts of men give good fruits, and once your heart is in sync with the spirit of the law, THEN will you become saved and destined for eternity with the Holy One.

[@nycgalant]

@@pepethunder not necessarily, as many kings in the old testament had choices, yet God was sovereign over them and their plans. For example, God decrees that a lying spirit be put into the mouths of Ahabs prophets (2 Chron 18:18-21) to entice him. Although Ahab went to battle even upon being warned by Micaiah the prophet that it would bring disaster upon him, Ahab still chose to because God had decreed for him to. In the same way, God predestined evil men and leaders (by their own volitional choices) to crucify Jesus (Acts 4:27-28) for His ultimate plan of redemption. It is God who also allowed Satan to entice David to sin by numbering Israel (1 Chron 21:1). David made the choice, yet the bible tells us it was ultimately God who enticed him to number Israel (2 Sam 24:1). I can go on and go on with scripture that the arminian/anticalvinist cannot justify consistently when it comes to God's sovereignty but here's the point, God is the author and finisher of a man's faith, and indeed He does give man the ability to make uncoerced choices, even if by nature man's inclination is to sin and do evil from birth. Even in our worst unbelieving state, it is God who must act to regenerate unbelieving hearts and it is His prerogative to pass over others (as He did with Pharaoh and numerous others) for His own glory alone. Who are we to complain or argue? This is why we can fully understand and appreciate verses like the one Black Patriot cited above. God is ultimately in control even of the decisions and plan one makes The king’s heart is a stream of water in the hand of the Lord; he turns it wherever he will. Proverbs 21:1 ESV The Lord has made everything for its purpose, even the wicked for the day of trouble. Proverbs 16:4 ESV Many are the plans in the mind of a man, but it is the purpose of the Lord that will stand. Proverbs 19:21 ESV......etc etc etc.

[@mama-cita]

I think Proverbs 16:9 means something different than you think it means.

[@blackpatriot3]

@@mama-cita we can debate whatever you want , 100% the truth is on my side on this

[@blackpatriot3]

@@nycgalant explain the verse

[@NC_27]

I'm just glad God saved a wretch like me 🤗. All glory and honor to Him 🙇‍♂️.

[@Brotheral-pb1oj]

It's not just about you! Its about being a witness to the salvation of souls through faith in Christ, in the hopes that whosoever experiences our witness may come to Christ for the salvation of their souls, that they shall not perish when they leave this world. To sum it all up : LOVE GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART MIND AND SOUL AND LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF. Anyone that does not teach this is a deceiver, and makes the Gospel of the Kingdom of God of non-effect. Even satan transforms himself into an angel of light, and his ministers are transformed into ministers of righteousness.

[@Brotheral-pb1oj]

Being saved is not a conduit to selfishness. We are to have the mind of Christ. This means that we desire all to be saved. As in loving your neighbor as you love yourself. Let's not be nonchalant about the teachings of our Lord.

[@Brotheral-pb1oj]

@John6.47 It's a matter of life or death! The scriptures teach about false teachers, false prophets, wolves in sheep's clothing, and doctrines of devils. Plus teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. Matthew chapter 15 verses 8 & 9. Jesus said that who is not with Him is against Him. There is no grey area. I humbly suggest that every man repent and believe the gospel. And fervently seek to LOVE GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART and Soul and Love YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF. True believers identify themselves with Christ alone. We are complete I. HIM! COLOSSIANS chapter 2-verse 10.

[@orangepeel3465]

The interviewer, Cameron, was rude saying that it was confusing and that he was all over the place. DR. HUNTER WAS VERY ORGANIZED IN HIS THOUGHTS & DELIVERY.

[@louiscrombie997]

Agreed. Props to Dr. Braxton on his graciousness working with the interviewer. Dr Braxton was extremely organized with his thoughts and you can tell the interviewer was more focused on the production elements to the point of derailing the interview multiple times.

[@topfueljunkie100]

I too basically agree overall. However, I didn't feel Cameron was rude but I do think he had trouble following along for some reason and it wasn't Dr Braxton's fault. The Dr seemed very orderly in his talk and wasn't hard to follow at all, nor was he "all over the place", he was making clear points which were connected and flowed form one another. Not sure why Cameron was getting lost.

[@IvarsKublins]

I disagree - the Braxton was really jumping from one place to other and it was not clear what he tries to say. Only after Cameron's correction it became more clear.

[@jtlearn1]

He was all over the place.

[@Dawsonk300]

I understood completely

[@elusive4072]

John 6:44 No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him, and I will raise him up on the last day.

[@lindajohnson4204]

John 12:31-33 Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out. 32 *And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.* 33 This he said, signifying what death he should die.

[@robertthornton9528]

Gods Holy spirit pulls us to him thru conviction, everyone is offered salvation but few turn and respond.

[@golfcat33]

NO ONE CAN COME! Super clear

[@lindajohnson4204]

@@golfcat33 But since Jesus said that if He was lifted up, He would draw all men unto Himself (John 12:32), all people are drawn by God to Jesus. There's no controvery of Father vs Son, because there's no competition between them. This suggests that in John 6:44, Jesus was not saying that the Father draws only a few, and that we have to be one of the few drawn, or we won't be able to come, but that He meant that we cannot come to the Jesus without the intervention of God. That makes sense, because how would we ever end up with the right God, and not get sidetracked by the world, our flesh, or the devil, without the intervention of God? And we need to know that it is God drawing us to faith in Jesus, right? It fits with so many things Jesus said about the work of God in bringing us unto salvation: John 5:24-25; the verses (in Matthew and Luke, I believe) about God giving the truth to the (literal and figuative) "babes", the babies, and hiding His truth from the "wise and prudent", who can turn in repentance and "become as little children", or else they will not enter the kingdom. But that negative statement still says that they can repent and become as little children, and God will reveal His truth to them, too.

[@abuelb]

​@@lindajohnson4204You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit and that your fruit should abide, so that whatever you ask the Father in my name, he may give it to you. (John 15:16, ESV)

[@DaisyandJesus116]

I am thankful to God that I believe. Whether God elected me beforehand to believe or not, is something I don't have to understand. I am just thankful that I accepted Jesus as my Savior.

[@Hector-Lagares]

Do you have children?

[@chrismachin2166]

Your whole post makes me smile. First ,” I am thankful to God that I believe”. True ,God chose you! Second, “whether God elected me beforehand to believe or not ,is something I don’t have to understand”. In the first part,you are “thankful to God “that I believe. If you had believed before God elected you,why are you thankful to God that you believe,if you believed before election?? Then you say” I am thankful that I accepted Jesus as my saviour.” So you accepted Jesus as your saviour-why be thankful to God ,if it was you who accepted Jesus as saviour. You contradict yourself.

[@Slenderman16]

But wouldn't you like to grow in your faith and not be constricted to this small little safety bubble, I'm not saying believe anything that isn't from the Bible I'm just saying that there is a lot more to this walk with the Lord than belief and faith.

[@freegracerevival]

@@chrismachin2166 because God didn’t have to extend salvation to me for me to accept. Smooth brain.

[@chrismachin2166]

@@Slenderman16 “But wouldn’t you like to grow in your faith and not be constricted to this small little safety bubble?” What do you mean by this “small little safety bubble”?

[@AndyReichert0]

totally agree with the authority thing. calvinists and other christians don't disagree about whether God is sovereign. they disagree about how He sovereignly chose/choses to exercise that sovereignty.

[@enoch3874]

Seven minutes and 39 seconds in and this guy has the same problem that most people have with Bible interpretation and that is to impose the dynamic of "my set of versus versus your set of verses" but the thing is we all know that this makes void the scripture, why do we do it? So this argument usually comes down to the problem of evil and soteriology.... I'll listen to the rest of the video of course.... Jesus of Nazareth the God of the gods who presides over the Heavenly Council knows everything we do before we do it, nevertheless, gives us choices and that's it really what the problem is, that we can't wrap our heads around it because we have, this thing, this assumption, to where......."if I can't understand it then it must not exist or must not be true".... and that is essentially The Atheist argument or the atheist reasoning for pure empiricism... that inherently is the Assumption behind this sort of argumentation... The Lord God says his thoughts are higher than our thoughts and we also have verses like Deuteronomy 29:29 why can't we just leave it at that? There is nothing anyone has ever done including me and including any person reading this that they themselves did not want to do and I know for a lot of people that's where the problem starts to come in but the God of Abraham Isaac and Jacob is the Potter we are the clay... and why can't we just be grateful that were we were chosen to be part of creation so it's a mystery you're not fully supposed to understand just leave it at that , I mean, can anyone really empirically scientifically verify their own reasoning... does anyone have any memory before they were conceived? ... with regards the problem of evil and soteriology I think the miscommunication is the difference that people don't think of, and that's usually that some people have a man centered Theology and some people have a god-centered theology... either your will over God's sovereignty or God's sovereignty over your will .. I believe that's ultimately what it comes down to...

[@nailedit2565]

It CAN be that, it is not necessarily that. Some will deny the sovereignty of God by asserting their own sovereignty over areas of the universe. "God can't do X, Y or Z, because of my X"

[@ceelothatmane9421]

@@enoch3874 I don’t know if I’m a Calvinist, but I definitely believe in divine selection. If it’s not God selecting Christians as a whole then it has to be Christians as individuals because the Bible literally says we are God’s elect. The way it’s phrased in Titus 1:1 ESV makes it seem as if it’s speaking of individuals because it says “the faith of God’s elect and THEIR knowledge of the truth.” If it was talking about the body it could have said “the faith of God’s elect and IT’S knowledge of the truth.” That’s how I’ve always seen it since being introduced to this subject. Still not sure where I stand

[@enoch3874]

@@ceelothatmane9421 most people call me calvinist but I'm not so sure and therefore I'm kind of in the same boat as you so while some people call me that I wouldn't make a very good one because I don't really agree with the doctrine of original sin... the sin nature part yes, but there's also a generational guilt aspect that comes with the doctrine as originally outlined with the Catholic Church... Romans chapter 5 verse 12 or 13 I believe and Ezekiel chapter 18:20 kind of goes against that idea. Yes when Adam sinned Humanity fell but the generational guilt part is an assumption... it's just accepted as a package deal. ... this is also why paedo baptism is a thing... and I believe the idea started from St Augustine. .. and another reason I probably wouldn't make a good calvinist is because I don't hold to the sethite/human ruler view of Genesis 6.. again that's sort of Augustine tradition.... don't get me wrong I have nothing against St Augustine but there's certain points of disagreement that I have. ..... on another note Habakkuk says "the just shall live by his faith" Paul says "the just shall live by faith" .. different wording same idea but it does give further interpretation to the titus 1:1 Passage that you mentioned.

[@Kometheus]

No they do disagree. Because absolute power by definition comes with requirements.

[@ShowCat1]

When I was a young man, a Calvinist theologian (Dr. Mal Couch) told me that I would never succeed at anything, I would be broke my entire life, and that I would follow in my father's foot steps and that there was nothing I could do about it. He told me not to fight it because this was God's will and it would bring Him glory. At the time I was in a life crisis and very vulnerable and did not know what a Calvinist was. I suffered under those damnning words that Dr. Couch spoke over me. It was a curse. For the next 23 years I was like a prisoner falsely acccused for a crime I did not commit. When God set me free I was able to walk with my Jesus once again. Calvinism is from the pit of hell.

[@charshii3745]

That is insane! I’m glad you’ve come out of that craziness! Praise God

[@jevonwisdom8261]

Y asscociate a theological doctrine with a person?

[@jesuslover6497]

I agree. God opened my eyes to Calvinism about a year ago in a radical way. There’s no doubt in my mind that the root of it is Gnosticism.

[@ShowCat1]

@jevonwisdom8261 A theological doctrine from the pit of hell spoken over me by a person who was decieved into beliveing it.

[@donatist59]

@jevonwisdom8261 A Calvinist friend of mine literally said to me that the God he worships is, and I quote, "a hate-filled psychopath." That Is Calvinism.

[@countryboyred]

This entire debate really comes down to an understanding of primary causes vs secondary causes.

[@jafetta9751]

Also, closely related, the doctrine of divine concurrence. Literally THE Reformed orthodox understanding of this subject.

[@pinoychristianpilgrim]

agree. to insist that the westminster or 1689 teaches that man is not a moral agent is a lie. it can be illogical but not unbiblical cause he believes both man's free agency or choice and God's free will to do whatever he pleases.

[@HonrbleMention]

​@@pinoychristianpilgrimall of humanity is dead in sins and trespasses and at enmity with God. So what are you saying? You're not dead?As spiritual death is nothing else than the alienation of the soul from God, we are all born as dead men, and we live as dead men, until we are made partakers of the life of Christ. Psalm 51, 5

[@a5dr3]

It’s quite simple, God ordains our free choices. It is because of that ordination that are choices are free and not subject to materialistic determinism, (as in any atheistic system.). These people try to eradicate mystery from fundamental doctrines but you can’t do it without destroying Christianity. We don’t know how Paul wrote Ephesians yet at the same time God wrote it, we don’t know how we must seek after God, yet the Bible says in the next phrase it’s the Spirit working in us that is seeking. We don’t know how God is three an one, we don’t understand how God fed the 5000. That’s the nature of dealing with a transcendent God. - This guys arguments are typically idiotic.

[@HonrbleMention]

@@a5dr3 whatever. No.

[@josephbrandenburg4373]

At what point in this video was an argument made against Calvinism?

[@joyeuxnoel7941]

I think he may have misrepresented the calvinist view of double predestination and determinism. The former is more nuanced than the version of determinism as a philosophical concept he presented, and he proceeds to say that if everything is determined, God is responsible for sin.

[@Baltic_Hammer6162]

The truth of Augustine of Hippo whom Cauvin fawns over is more than enough to reject Calvinism. Augustin injected pagan Gnosticism beliefs into the "church" which incorportated them and made Augustine an Early Father of the (Roman)Church. All which Jean Cauvin eagerly devours by the bucketful. Absolutely incredible how lazy so-called "christians" are that they can't be bothered to dig into research and see the truth and how its been covered in mountains of lies. Of which some lies really sound "biblical" if you throw enough camouflage on it.

[@vasilhrisca5536]

I’m convinced this guy doesn’t understand the arguments of the reformed view. He definitely did not argue against it. Opinions don’t change minds. Some people act like this is the best argument??? lol this is weak and in fact I’m more prone to believe in the reformed theological understanding.

[@cfb5]

My thought exactly.

[@garrettmurrieta1479]

@@vasilhrisca5536why don’t you present the accurate view of reformed theology then?

[@sp8878]

"Best argument against Calvinism it would be - I don't think bible teaches it" - Dr. Braxton Hunter.

[@michaeltorah4002]

Except the bible does teach it

[@dited358]

@@michaeltorah4002 Only if you twist it through a foggy lens.

[@joshuacarrero5360]

@Michael Torah The bible teaches it? Lol your own interpretation teaches it.

[@madjack821]

@@joshuacarrero5360 Did God choose the Jews? Yes or no?

[@jakecathey7061]

@@madjack821of course he did people acting like we as humans can accept God without the spirit but it is taught that we can’t without the spirit

[@stevevos2764]

Calvinism converted me from happy in Christ to sad. Just plain sad and miserable. Now I’ve filed Calvinism into the every false thing teaching file and I am happy in Christ again.

[@naturematt4340]

Praise God!

[@LAStreetPreacher]

Steve, you perhaps have misunderstood the Bible in your area of confusion about Calvinism. Calvin was one of the most erudite theologians in church history. If you were sad when you read him then you might not have been converted to the true Biblical faith that Calvin taught. Augustine was another giant of the faith and essentially both these men agreed on the essentials.

[@LAStreetPreacher]

Calvinism properly understood should have presented your lost condition and inability to come to Christ apart from God's saving grace. If you think you are saved by something you did then you are probably still lost and in your sins. Worshipping a false god that you have created is a very dangerous thing. The Arminian gospel will lead you to hell. Believe it or not!

[@jeremiah5319]

@stevevos2764 - I can't say I believe your statement. But I do wonder why you said it.

[@dustygatrell-ru7tg]

That's what the devil does. He tries to distort our relationship with god an tear it apart. Happy you are OK now.

[@uglypie670]

This was the wisdom that I have been praying for. I recently met a Calvinist at my college, and I was thrilled to find another Christian. We exchanged contact information and I’ve been having questions but I also didn’t want to turn him from God by asking it the wrong way. So, I’ve been praying for wisdom on how to approach him with my questions. Thank you and I thank God for providing this knowledge through you guys.

[@JH-nk4pb]

He might actually be closer to God than you are. He might actually sharpen you

[@uglypie670]

Indeed, he is! I have learned so much from our interactions, and he has been a great blessing in my life. It’s like you said he sharpened me. Looking back, I needed to be humbled and the Lord has done that. I still have a long ways to go before I could ever come close to being a good servant of the Lord. I’m no longer concerned with trying to convince my classmate why Calvinism is wrong. I’d prefer that than him being Muslim. I was focused on the wrong things, but now I have grown closer with the Lord and have been humbled by a lot. The Lord truly works in mysterious ways. ☺️

[@madjack821]

Save your money and don't go to seminary. You'll get a free theological education from him.

[@user-qf9dh8cj7m]

Calvinism is false doctrine. Deuteronomy 30:15 in the Bible, which reads, “And if it seems evil to you to serve the Lord, CHOOSE FOR YOURSELVES this day whom you will serve, whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the River, OR the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you dwell”. The verse continues, “But as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord”.  GOD gave us a FREE WILL because he told US to CHOOSE. You can't make a CHOICE unless your WILL is FREE 19:17

[@uglypie670]

@@user-qf9dh8cj7m Thank you and I’m still iffy about it. Part of me is leaning towards it but I still struggle to fully come to terms with it because of verses like the one you have mentioned.

[@TopherBlairMusic]

When I was growing up no one ever told me about Calvanism or the alternatives. Choice was never discussed. I feel fortunate in that I was able to study the bible without any preconceived notions and I naturally just believed, from reading, that we had a choice. I don't know how I would have come to the thought that we didn't.

[@spiritandtruth7421]

Out of curiosity, could you name one Calvinist Theologian or a Reformed Confession that teaches that human beings are "controlled?" It's not good to misrepresent other positions.

[@TopherBlairMusic]

@@spiritandtruth7421 I apologize for misspeaking.

[@spiritandtruth7421]

@@TopherBlairMusic Would you admit then that Reformed Theology does NOT teach that human beings are "controlled?"

[@TopherBlairMusic]

@@spiritandtruth7421 quite frankly, it was just a lazy way of saying that we didn't have choose grace by freewill. No offense, it's not really a conversation I believe that is fruitful. The four or five conversations I've had with Calvanists they have gotten pretty upset and I don't believe it's something I should be engaging with as a Christian anymore, due to that. It could have been my fault. As you can tell I'm not very good with the English language. I saw this video in my recommended list and figured I'd see what the speaker had to say. I don't believe in Reformed Theology. It's not just the Calvanism aspect to it, there's many other aspects that I don't agree with or see in the Bible but I don't believe anyone who does is somehow outside of Christ's saving grace so...apologize for mis-speaking again.

[@timothykeith1367]

@@TopherBlairMusic The means of grace that God ordains is not automatic, God uses the ordinary preaching of the gospel. The people who reject Calvinism have difficulty in conceiving God using the ordinary means of preaching. They often think that the individual who is saved must do something extraordinary. The most common example of God ordaining preaching is that of the families in which we are born. Our parents' knowledge of the Bible may have been imperfect, but it is sufficient in the lives of millions of their children. Yet, even then, one sibling may believe, another may fall away. The means of grace is not automatic. 1 Timothy 3:16 speaks of the mystery of Godliness.

[@christvictoriouskingdomnow2473]

"I will admit that prima facie, it seems like Calvinism is true" Braxton Hunter....

[@reynaldoperez7285]

Ephesians 1:4). ("HE CHOSE US IN HIM) before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and without defect before him" HE CHOSE US IN CHRIST, NOT US IN ADAM, NOT US IN MOSES, NOT US IN PAUL, ONLY US THAT ARE IN CHRIST. IF he chose us in Christ before the foundation of the world to be holy and without defect, why are we sinners, that need to be saved ? King James Bible EPHESIANS 1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, (ACCORDING TO THE GOOD PLEASURE OF HIS WILL,) ⬅️ Why would God need to adopt someone he predestined to be his child ? Now the question, WHAT IS GODS WILL?⬅️ Well let's see! Berean Literal Bible JOHN 6:40⬅️ (FOR THIS IS THE WILL OF MY FATHER,) that everyone beholding the Son and believing in Him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up in the last day." Wow, 🤗 the fathers will is that whoever believes will be saved, (According to the good pleasure of his will.) APART FROM GOD'S WILL, WHICH IS TO BELIEVE IN JESUS HIS SON THERE IS NO ELECTION TO SALVATION Yes, God knows who will accept his free gift of eternal life , yes he knows all things ahead of time . HERE'S ANOTHER VERSE: King James Bible JOHN 1:12 But as many as RECEIVED him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: IT CLEARLY SAYS AS MANY AS RECEIVED HIM, AND BELIEVED ON HIS NAME.HE GAVE POWER TO BECOME SONS. BEREAN LITERAL BIBLE ROMAN'S 11:32 For God has bound (IMPRISONED) up all in disobedience, that He may show mercy to all. Berean Literal Bible JOHN 3:19 And this is the (JUDGEMENT,) that the Light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the Light; for their deeds were evil. The JUDGEMENT IS THAT THEY REJECTED CHRIST, NOT THAT THEY WEREN'T ELECTED BEFORE THE WORLD BEGAN. YES, BOTH DOCTRINES WHOSOEVER WILL, AND ELECTION ARE TRUE, BUT IF ONE IS INTERPRETED WRONG, IT CONTAMINATES THE WHOLE MESSAGE . Election , makes the power of the gospel Vain, IF NOT PRESENTED RIGHT. God did not create anyone for hell, they fitted themselves for destruction by rejecting Jesus. If election was true, God would always have know the ones he chose, but clearly There is people he didn't know, that now he Knows. For instance. English Standard Version EPHESIANS 2:12 REMEMBER THAT YOU WERE AT THAT TIME SEPARATED FROM CHRIST, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. IF WE WERE CHOSEN IN HIM BEFORE THE FOUNDATIONS OF THE WORLD HOW DID WE GET OUT OF HIM, SEPARATED FROM HIM. Berean Literal Bible EPHESIANS 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus you, the ones once being far off, have become near by the blood of Christ. THESE WERE FAR OFF, HOW IF THEY WERE ELECTED? English Standard Version GALATIANS 4:9 But now that you have come to know God, or rather to be known by God, how can you turn back again to the weak and worthless elementary principles of the world, whose slaves you want to be once more? GOD DIDN'T KNOW THESE BUT NOW HE DOES. SURELY GOD HAS ALWAYS KNOWN HIS OWN. Why would Paul give warnings, Telling people to make sure they were in the faith, if they were predestined. HE GAVE WARNINGS, SO THAT WE WOULD NOT TRUST IN ANYTHING BUT THE FINNISHED WORK OF CHRIST. WE ARE SAVE BY GRACE THROUGH FAITH, ELECTED TO SALVATION IS ANOTHER GOSPEL. YES GOD HAS ALWAYS CHOSEN (ELECTED) PEOPLE FOR SERVICE . God predestined people who believe him to go to heaven, and people who don't believe him to go to hell. Simple, Whoever believed Whoever believes Whoever will come to believe are God's elect, chosen. Berean Literal Bible ROMAN'S 9:8 That is, the children of the flesh, these are not children of God; but the children of the promise are regarded as offspring. King James Bible 2nd thesolonians 2:13 But we are bound to give thanks always to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, (BECAUSE GOD HATH FROM THE BEGINNING CHOSEN YOU TO SALVATION THROUGH SANCTIFICATION OF THE SPIRIT AND BELIEF OF THE TRUTH:) Wow, through BELEIF of the TRUTH, not election. There is only one way to be saved. The gospel is the power of God that leads To salvation. IF SOMEONE WAS SAVED,and SEALED BEFORE THE WORLD BEGAN, THAT IS NOT CHRISTIANITY, NOT THE GOSPEL. God predestined his elect to be lost so that he can find them.well then now we know who started the hide and go seek game 🎮 😄. The Calvinist If you are not elect, the gospel has no power to save you, ACCORDING TO CALVINIST. Election makes the gospel powerless for Everyone except the elect. A gospel that makes the gospel powerless is no gospel at all. IF HE CHOSE US IN HIM, HE DIDN'T CHOOSE THOSE THAT ARE OUTSIDE OF HIM English Standard Version Acts 17:31 because he has fixed a day on which he will judge the world in righteousness by a man whom he has appointed; and of this (HE HAS GIVEN ASSURANCE TO ALL)by raising him from the dead.” NOW WHY WOULD HE GIVE ASSURANCE TO NON ELECT. SO THAT THEY CAN BE SURE THAT THEY ARE GOING TO HELL, 🤔, NO, TIME TO RETHINK ELECTION. Berean Literal Bible ROMAN'S 5:2 through whom also (WE HAVE ACCESS) by faith into this grace in which we stand; and we boast in the hope of the glory of God. ACCESS BY FAITH, NOT ELECTION. Berean Literal Bible JOHN 5:40 and you are not willing to come to Me, that you may have life. JESUS INVITES ALL, BUT MANY REFUSE TO COME. Berean Literal Bible EPHESIANS 1:13 in whom you also, having heard the word of truth, the gospel your of salvation, in whom also having believed you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, New International Version 1ST CORINTHIANS 1:21 For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe. WOW, PLEASED THROUGH THE FOOLISHNESS OF WHAT WAS PREACHED, TO SAVE THOSE WHO BELIEVED, NOT THOSE ELECTED. At the end of the day, it's about those that believe in Jesus, the death burial and resurrection, according to the scriptures. But we must not be a stumbling block to those that want to come to Christ, and I believe that CALVINISM is a false Christianity. Titus 2:11, "FOR THE GRACE OF GOD APPEARED BRINGING SALVATION TO ALL PEOPLE." TO ALL MEN, NOT ONLY THE ELECT. King James Bible1st Peter 2:6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded. Berean Standard Bible ROMANS 8:29 For those God foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brothers. ? Who didn't God FOREKNOW ????????? GOD DID NOT PRESET THE HUMAN WILL, HE DID NOT DETERMINE OUR SALVATION LONG AGO. IF MAN WAS ELECTED TO SALVATION BEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD, THEN HE WAS BORN WITH THE GIFT OF ETERNAL LIFE AND THEREFORE HAD NO NEED TO RECEIVE IT AGAIN. HE PREDESTINED US THAT BELIEVE TO BE ADOPTED SONS. Example, He chose us in him, Who is him? Christ is him. Ok he chose us in Christ! Who is in Christ? Christians ✝️ What did he choose us for,? To be holy, and blameless, and adopted. According to his will. So there was some already in him and some that needed to get in him Did Jesus predestined Peter to deny him 3 times? Or did he just know. 🤔 GOD. WHY SHOULD I LET YOU INTO MY KINGDOM? ME. BECAUSE I BELIEVED IN YOUR BELOVED SON, THE LORD JESUS CHRIST, THE ONE WHO DIED WAS BURRIAL, AND ROSE FROM THE DEAD ON THE 3RD DAY. GOD. YEAH BUT, YOU WERE NOT ELECTED. (Predestined). SORRY, TIME TO RETHINK. CAN A MAN BE FORCED TO PERSEVERE, AND THAT BE CALLED GRACE. God IS NOT A RESPECTOR OF PERSONS, SO WHAT METHOD DID HE USE TO DETERMINE WHO GETS ELECTED. IF GOD ONLY PREDESTINE A FEW, HE DID NOT LOVE THE WORLD. HERE IS YOUR FOREKNOWLEDGE. Berean Standard Bible psalm 139:16 Your eyes saw my unformed body; all my days were written in Your book and ordained for me before one of them came to be.

[@jstottspooner]

This was great! I’m a Calvinist. I’m sick of the division within the church over how we ultimately get to where we’re going. How we got to where we were going is an academic debate. We’re first and foremost to spread the gospel.

[@Landis_Grant]

You can’t be a Calvinist unless you understand all 5 points of TULIP and you prescribe to at least 3 of the 5 points. Some Calvinists say you must prescribe to all 5 points.

[@michaelparker6763]

And the blood shall be to you for a token upon the houses where ye are; and when I see the blood, I will pass over you, and the plague shall not be upon you to destroy you, when I smite the land of Egypt: I am the Lord. Exodus 12 vs 13 (KJV). The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sins of the world. John 1 vs 29 (KJV) Calvanists are scared of freewill because they have no confidence in the blood of Christ and therefore do not obey the Gospel of Christ.

[@clint120]

division? How about rightly dividing the word of truth? Using the word, division, puts a guilt onto people who aren’t helping you understand what the Bible really says.

[@chrisreichert8659]

Calvinism is of the Devil.

[@mabailon]

@@chrisreichert8659when you read the Bible do not bring preconceived opinions like Calvinism is evil or man must have a free will to your reading. Let the Bible speak for itself.

[@alaskacpu]

1Jo 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world. 💞

[@pinkdiscomosh2766]

As a former anti-calvinist, I remember when I found these arguments convincing myself. Much respect and love to those who still do. The problem of evil was probably my last stand before I embraced Calvinism and here is what changed my mind. First, the problem of evil is only a problem if there is no redemption. However both calvinist and non-calvinist believe that God can redeem evil action either by redeeming the person through the blood of Christ or using the situation for his glory by bring about some other good. The difference is this. Is God the kind of God who just allows evil to happen and then picks up the pieces leaving the evil action almost purposeless? Or is God the kind of God who preordains evil to happen so that his glory can shine forth in both his judgement of evil and his grace to the evil doer making every single evil action purposeful and for his glory. Think of the common example of a women being raped. In non-calvinist thinking, we only go as far as seeing this evil action as a means to deciding if God is a good God or not for determining that that would happen. However, a calvinist get’s to move forward and consider the possibility that God determined that to happen to bring about not only forgiveness in the heart of the woman, but salvation for the rapist should he believe in Christ. Something that only God can do in both cases. If both faith and forgiveness originate with God, this evil event just turned into an amazing gospel story where, yes, evil actions can be called evil appropriately, but to also consider the goodness of the gospel not only for the victim, but for the criminal as well since Jesus died for both equally. Now yes, the flip side of this is that God get’s off the hook because he wasn’t the one who determined the rape to occur in the first place, but that doesn’t solve the problem of evil for the non-calvinist because you now you have to explain why God would even allow that to happen. This is where open-theism really starts to make it’s way into our theology, because now we have to somehow get God off the hook for that as well which would necessitate some universe where God is a passive observer just allowing evil men to run rampant yet still believe that God works all thing for the good of those who love him? And for what? So that man can have “free will”? Now what if that redemption story doesn’t happen? The woman goes on traumatized and hating men and the rapist is possibly a repeat offender. In this scenario, God still get’s the glory, because he is the judge of the universe where all evil actions not covered by the blood of Christ will be brought to account. Believe it or not, the woman is still a sinner as well and if she doesn’t repent, her place will be the same as that of the rapist. Now is it fair for God to judge sinners who couldn’t have done otherwise? The apostle Pauls answer to this very objection: “But who are you, a human being, to talk back to God? “Shall what is formed say to the one who formed it, ‘Why did you make me like this?’” 21 Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for special purposes and some for common use?” (Rom. 9:20-21) In other words, God is the one with the free will here. We live and move and have our being in the hands of God and what is fair is not for us to determine since we are not the potter. Calvinism leads to a powerful God who works all things purposefully and for his glory where as the opposite is a rat race to constantly get God off the hook for the evil actions of men potentially leading to an open universe where God is just a passive observer. Personally, I’m more convinced of God’s free will over my free will. But what if it was God’s free will to give me free will? Sure we can say that, but scripturally it says: “What if God, although choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath-prepared for destruction? 23 What if he did this to make the riches of his glory known to the objects of his mercy, whom he prepared in advance for glory” (Rom. 9:22-23) It would seem that God’s free will choice was to prepare vessels of wrath so as to show forth his glory to vessels of mercy. Scripture says that much, but nowhere does it say that it was God’s free will choice to give us free will. In my eyes, I find great joy worshiping a God who does whatsoever he wills freely while I’m just a passive observer living, moving an having my being in him. Praise God that he chose to have mercy on me rather than leave me to my sin. I am unworthy even of his good favor as my creator let alone my redeemer. That’s what is convincing to me. It’s makes sense even if it humbles my existence to that of a piece of clay in the hands God who could have chosen otherwise with me. I’m just glad that he didn’t. All glory be to God! Much love, grace and peace to my brother in Christ. LATER ADDITION: As of May 29, 2022 I wanted to added a further edit to my post as I’m getting a lot of messages from folks claiming that I believe that God is the author of sin or that God forces/causes/leads man to sin. If you’ve read my post and have come to that conclusion yourself. Please continue to read. So I can see how it would seem that I’m saying that God is the author of sin or that God causes sin. But please understand, that is not what I believe and that is not what I’m saying. Saying that God pre-ordains all things (including evil actions) is not the same thing as saying that he “causes” evil actions. The best way I can explain it is in the same terms as the doctrine of the Trinity and the Hypistatic Union of Christ, both historical Christian doctrines that appeal to mystery as to how they are humanly possible. How is it that God has eternally existed as one being and three persons? We don’t know. It’s a mystery hidden in God. How is it that Jesus in his nature can both be 100% God and 100% man? We don’t know. It’s a mystery hidden in God. But we affirm these things because the scripts teach them. My appeal here is that God’s sovereignty and mans will is in the same category. A mystery. How is it that God can both pre-ordain the wicked actions of men, hold them accountable for those actions and not be the one who caused those actions? I don’t know. It’s a mystery hidden in God. But I believe the scripture teaches both. Man is responsible for his actions while God pre-ordained their coming to pass. The clearest example of this is in Acts 4:27-28: “for truly in this city there were gathered together against your holy servant Jesus, whom you anointed, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, along with the Gentiles and the peoples of Israel, to do whatever your hand and your plan had predestined to take place.” ‭‭Acts‬ ‭4:27-28‬ ‭ESV‬ In other words, God predestined the wicked actions of men to crucify the Lord. On the other hand, I also believe that God does not tempt man to sin, but men are tempted by their own desires which gives birth to sin. (James 1:13-15) God made man upright be men sought out many schemes (Eccl. 7:29) But on the other hand, God made some vessels for wrath and some for mercy in which the vessels of wrath can not resist God’s will for them. Upon some he has mercy and upon others, he hardens (Romans 9:14-23). I’m sorry but I don’t find the “free will” argument to be a sufficient explanation for all these examples. I understand that “free will” is a simple enough cop out of an extremely difficult topic, but I don’t believe that that cop out is sufficient to explain what’s going on here. Therefore I believe it to be more biblically responsible to appeal to mystery as this matter has not been fully revealed to us. In saying all of that, I don’t believe we should diminish the seriousness of sin under any circumstance but neither should be diminish the sovereignty of God. I say we affirm both and appeal to mystery. As a final note, a mystery is not the same thing as a paradox. I do not claim to know the mechanism by which God pre-ordains all things yet is morally separate. And I believe for anyone to claim it as a paradox is claiming that they understand what the mechanism is. We should not claim to know something that God himself has not revealed. All I can say is that based on what scripture says is that there has to exist a great chasm between Gods decree and mans actions. But both must be upheld because the scripture can not be broken. Blessings!

[@MichaelWilliams-bw6he]

Based. Hopefully this comment stays at the top. I applaud your response it was excellently crafted. I love to see sound theology laid out bare in a comment section. There are many who hate to see it, but in this section we love it. 👍

[@cameron4339]

The Apostles never taught Calvinism so no I do not believe it

[@pinkdiscomosh2766]

@@cameron4339 The Apostles didn’t need Calvin to believe in mans inability to respond to the gospel aside from the inward working of the Holy Spirit because of their sin nature; the predestination of believers in Christ before the foundation of the world; the particular redemption applied to those God predestined exclusively through the blood of Christ; the natural response in faith due to a changed heart by hearing the gospel carried out by the Holy Spirit as well as Jesus’ ability to not lose a single sheep that the father gave to him. You don’t have to like Calvin, but scripture has a lot to say about these things.

[@cameron4339]

@@pinkdiscomosh2766 sorry but if Calvinism was true, the Apostles would have fallowed Calvins ideal beliefs as the church in the early days of Christianity, but no we only had one well now two choices, Roman Catholicism or Eastern Orthodoxy, if the apostles and the church never taught it for over 1000 years, that must be saying something

[@davidashcom6087]

@@cameron4339 My friend, Stross is only rightly interpreting scripture as Calvin did long ago. You cannot sit here and say that the apostles did not teach something that is stated so plainly all throughout the New and Old Testament scripture. I didn’t even know who Calvin was when I realized through reading scripture that God had chosen me, not the other way around.

[@markfry4304]

Ever had an argument with someone and realize you're both saying the same thing? That's what this feels like.

[@Baltic_Hammer6162]

I hear what you're saying. Like hearing two people speak a language you don't know, it all sounds the same. But if you really know the language you have no trouble picking out the poser or faker who only knows enough to confuse those who don't know the real language.

[@Rc-tb9uy]

It often feels that way when I’d speak to people I know that believe in Calvinism but not “hardcore Calvinist’s.” I think people are trying to understand God and his word in their own knowledge while simultaneously preaching so heavily on Gods grace and sovereignty. We can have both! Yes I agree with the Calvinist that God is sovereign, in control, it’s His Grace and we can come to Him only because He draws, but we try to understand everything not realizing we are limited by our human minds, bound by time and space. Sometimes talking to Calvinist’s I’m like where do we disagree then, and it can be confusing. Hopefully that makes sense

[@jennroberts3837]

A fierce agreement !!!!

[@Brotheral-pb1oj]

What you said is absolutely impossible!🙂

[@ewallt]

I liked this very much. For me the biggest problem regarding Calvinism is what it says about God’s character.

[@edwinrivera5377]

I appreciate you're honesty

[@edwinrivera5377]

@@thomasb282 Tom help me with this verse 1 Samuel 18:10

[@malcolmscrivener8750]

You should be worrying about your character , Mr Self Righteous !

[@ewallt]

@@malcolmscrivener8750 To be concerned about God’s character makes one self righteous?

[@malcolmscrivener8750]

@@ewallt Who are you to be judging the character of Almighty God your creator , Son of Dust ? Can the pot say to the potter ,” Why have you made me thus ? Your “concern about Gods ‘character” shows your disbelief of the sovereignty of the Lord , and your inborn rebellion against His supreme power over everyone ,and everything . .The way arminians casually question the clear and plain teaching of the Holy Bible , comes from satan himself and will take you with him eventually into hellfire , if you continue to deny the Lords prerogative to save whom He wills . By insisting that you made a decision and accept Gods freewill offer of the Gospel , you rob Christ of His glory , and make yourself into a god who has the power to thwart the Lords purpose in salvation , when you declare God loves everybody , and desires everyone to be saved . That makes Him weak and ineffectual , because obviously millions of reprobates go to their deaths , still hating Him . You make Almighty God , into a pitiful , half mighty god , who you can question in your self righteous , theological conjecturing and humanistic discussions . What power you give yourself ! It is the same as a roman catholic priest who can drag the Lord Jesus off His throne beside God the Father in heaven , and resacrifice Him any time he likes . These devils do this millions of times a day around the world , and are all arminians to the core .

[@KB-gd6fc]

I don’t understand why people hate Calvinism. For me, knowing that my salvation is ENTIRELY the work of a Sovereign, wonderful, loving God who purchased my sinful self with His blood is supremely reassuring. It gives me rest.

[@christophersnedeker]

Because it implies God could save everyone but deliberately didn't. He also could have prevented the fall of Adam and stopped sin from entering the world to begin with but he deliberately decreed that Adam would eat the fruit. It makes God into one who says to make bricks without straw like Pharoah, only worse because the isrealites had the ability to go out and gather straw but the reprobate can do nothing, God commands him "be righteous" but denys him the grace necessary to fulfill the command, it makes God frankly diabolical.

[@jamesedwards.1069]

@@christophersnedeker Howabout considering that God could have saved nobody, but deliberately didn't. What if it's the case that NOBODY would want to be saved unless God forced them by predestining some to do what we otherwise would never choose. Face it, dude, this is infinitely beyond our comprehension.

[@christophersnedeker]

@@jamesedwards.1069 Calvinist God: creates people for the purpose of casting them into hell You: well he's nice to me so that means he's good

[@jamesedwards.1069]

@@christophersnedeker I'm not so Calvinist that I can't relate to the idea that God gives everyone what they really want, the deepest desires of their heart. So you can't blame God for letting you go to that Safe Space®He prepared for you where He promises never to go. And you can't blame Him for the fact that the place sucks like hell. God has to be on site and in charge in order to make a place not suck. But since you don't want Him around, you have to accept the suckiness. The only alternative is to accept God and His love. If you can't accept love, real honest love, then, what good are you any way?

[@yafois988]

Salvation is 100% conditional. Thats is why you as a soul are required to OBEY what is written, being a doer of the word as written so are required. Your "reward is based upon your "deeds" as Christ said he will return giving each their due deserve for their deeds. Rev 19:7-9 shows we know this principle and prepare . WE not HIM, "WE do. We pick up our cross, we walk forward, we don't look back, We obey the scripture, WE are told to spread the gospel, We seek his face, we answer his beckoning, amongst other points. WE not Him He gave us the covenants to follow. Acts 26:20. Calvin studied upon Augustus of HIPPO. a professed sex addict WHOM ADMITTED THIS, known until his death. Modifying any scriptures if expressly Forbidden, it makes them doctrines of Demons and MEN, YHVH-God does not hear validate of honor. any scriptures from anyone whom participates in this. So basically you're not saved under his demonic man made false gospel. There is one way to be saved and have salvation and it is not via Calvins perverted false Gospels modified scriptures.

[@eugenejoseph7076]

Calvinism argues that God preordained evil! How can anyone sit under a pastor that believes and preaches this heresy?

[@vinylcrafters4758]

Read Isaiah 45:7

[@eugenejoseph7076]

@@vinylcrafters4758 Read Jeremiah 32:35. Not everything is ordained by God!!!! God's sovereignty doesn't mean He acts like a tyrant over His subjects, leaving them no choice, no freedom of will. He loved His subjects so much He sent His only begotten Son to save them.

[@vinylcrafters4758]

@@eugenejoseph7076 True, and God didn't make Eve and then Adam eat of the tree of the knowledge of god and evil, however, He knew that they would do that and before the foundations of the world, He had a plan for salvation, it wasn't a response to their action. I don't believe (and I don't think Calvinism does either) that God leaves people no freedom of will. We can choose to engage in any sin we like, but without God's influence, we cannot choose God. See Jesus' words in John 6:44, noting the words "no one can". Also, what could Jesus have meant in John 17:12 when He spoke of "the one doomed to destruction so that scripture would be fulfilled"? Ultimately, the debate over man's free will vs. God's sovereignty will never be settled this side of Heaven, but it's good to search the scriptures for better understanding. Peace, Brother.

[@eugenejoseph7076]

@@vinylcrafters4758 thanks for your reply. Any reply worded like yours makes me want to dig deeper into God's Word. I will do just that and get back to you. Peace !

[@HonrbleMention]

You need to stop focusing on yourself and how good of a person you are. Psalms 5: 5 The arrogant cannot stand in your presence. You hate all who do wrong. Read it back to me. You're dead, pal. Let's say you die tonight. Does God throw you into hell or only your sins? The difference between Calvin and your teacher, Pelagius, is Calvin, like Augustine of Hippo and Christ, all believe regeneration precedes faith & not what you believe, faith precedes regeneration, not. By putting confession before faith, he changes the order, which is often the case in Scripture: for the order would have been more regular if the faith of the heart had preceded, and the confession of the mouth, which arises from it, had followed. Yeah, u did as u were told by your liar for hire, do, 1 John 1, 9.

[@ninjason57]

As Derek Prince one said, "If we believe the whole New Testament, we have to believe both[predestination and free will]-even if we don’t see how they fit together."

[@hudjahulos]

That's the compatibilist position and it's exactly right.

[@Baltic_Hammer6162]

Prince is very confused. I listened once and don't waste any more time.

[@TheDeadWillRise]

Agreed. It is easy to see that there are some things about which God gives us choice and some things that he does not. If our purpose for existence is to know God and have relationship with him (John 17:3, Acts 17:26-27) then having the choice to choose God or not is fundamental because a relationship is not sincere if it is forced upon someone. However, it is clear that none of us chose when we were born, who are parents are, whether or not we are born into poverty or wealth, whether or not we are bound to bodies of flesh with an inherited sinful nature, etc. Anyway, I've never understood why this debate happens without recognizing that God exists outside of time. Both Calvinism and Arminianism are arguments limited by our human perspective of time as a sequential, linear experience. We know that time was created by God and has physical properties and limitations. God lives outside of time. He can see the beginning, present, and end all at once.

[@askbrettmanning]

Agreed

[@davidgaston6859]

Price is an absolute wacky pack. I can't listen to him hardly.

[@johncmeade]

I am saved by grace and I am a Calvinist by grace .....to God be the glory Great things he has done!

[@JustinCase-em6ql]

I am an Arminianist, saved by grace through faith Eph. 2:8-10.

[@johncmeade]

@JustinCase-em6ql that's the only way you can be saved," by grace through faith, and this not of yourself, it is the gift of God ephesians 2 8-9

[@Simplement_Chrétien]

@@johncmeade The word "this" as in "THIS is not of yourself" does not refer to grace nor does it refer to faith and nor does it refer to both. The greek langage has strict rules about gender conjugation which is not found in the english language regarding feminine and masculine nouns (if you know a bit of french for exemple this may be easier to understand). The greek words for faith and grace are both feminine. If Paul used the word "THIS" to refer to grace or faith it would've been a feminine nominative and if Paul wanted to refer to both of em it would've been both feminine and plural. The word used by Paul is singular AND neutral. Because of its translation and language differences, it may seems like it is a replacement for grace or faith, but there is grammatically no logical way to come to that conclusion. Hope it helps. In the end, may God lean us into learning more about Him and may we discover (or not according to His will) the mysteries of His grace. May our Lord's love by with you my brother!

[@key1853]

how is it grace if you were already ordained and predestined to already accept christ ?

[@JustinCase-em6ql]

@@key1853 Also how are we responsible for our response to the calling, and why all of the teaching on how a follower of Christ should live? Also, why would the crucifixion and the intricate plan of salvation be necessary, and wouldn't our programming mean we are just robots? Yahweh does not want more robots. He wants to share his kingdom with a battle tested people who will worship and obey him.

[@tatalunin6614]

I wanted to hear a strong argument against Calvinism. Lost me when the guy said he’d use philosophy w/ scripture. Interpret scripture using the scripture & nothing more to argue against Calvinism.

[@brianchristopher8843]

Once you are saved by grace, you know that it could not of been any other way. His grace entering my life was no choice of mine.

[@djr113]

Amen

[@Arman_Kaymakcian]

I was saved in 2010 from a severe heroine addiction, glory be to God he rescued me out of that detestable lifestyle, and gave me eternal life. He used a multitude of means to draw me not the least of which was the gospel. Faith is not a work, the Bible is clear, faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God, the prodigal son was “dead” not physically but separated. Jesus said he came to himself and returned to the father. Gods arms are open wide to anyone willing to receive the free gift of grace. In any exchange where a gift has been given the glory goes to the giver of the gift, no one runs around boasting about themselves that they received a gift. Rather they boast on the glory of the giver of the gift. For it is by grace you have been saved through faith and this not of yourselves it is a gift of God not by works so that no one can boast. You have wrongly come to the conclusion that faith is a work. And also that one needs to be saved before they are saved. Regeneration does not precede faith. No where in the Bible will you find salvation happening that way. Abraham believed and it was accounted to him as righteousness. Faith is the substance of things hoped for and the belief of things not seen. Oh Jerusalem Jerusalem how I desired to gather you together as a hen gathers her chicks but you were not willing. All throughout the Bible God is willing people are not

[@willp.8120]

Correct

[@shawnglass108]

Absolutely right! Strange how man attempts to usurp God’s sovereignty for himself. How can a man accept true humility when he believes he is responsible for a part of his salvation or that he can “convince” others to choose God and salvation. That’s why Jesus makes it clear, when talking to Nicodemus, that being born again is up to the spirit. Just as being born in the flesh is not your choice. Paul explains this clearly in Romans chapter 9 but men, in pride, reject God’s sovereignty.

[@daveyboy6985]

@@Arman_Kaymakcian amen.

[@meghomes]

I loved this. I’ve really tried to ignore this subject, feeling that determinism falls squarely into: “I don’t have the mind of God nor do I need to understand everything to have faith.” But more and more it kept coming up, I felt I needed to be more informed about it. Loved how concise he is on the problems with Calvinism, and frankly I just intuitively cannot reconcile it with what I believe. I do think as Christians we should care about this, because it has to the capacity to create sort of a meh attitude towards reaching the lost.

[@meghomes]

@R H Evans I’ll preface this response in that I’m not particularly prescriptive on any set theological belief… but I believe humans have ultimate free will and while God may have knowledge of what’s to come, I have yet to be convinced in the doctrine of predestination where God picks and chooses the saved. I would say something closer to Molinism or Arminianism, but I’m still plodding through the Bible and trying to reconcile what the Bible actually says relative to reformed theology.

[@JayinWaldoKC]

@@meghomes Thank you for your answer @RH Evans, likewise please provide scripture that justifies your doctrine that Jesus was only sent for a select few vs "For God so loved the world He gave his only begotten son and WHO so ever believe in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.- John 3:16.

[@JayinWaldoKC]

@R H Evans please see my reply.

[@jrcenina85]

@@JayinWaldoKC you scared the demons away 😅

[@marialamb6781]

@@JayinWaldoKC A huge issue with Calvinism is that they will take the words, “any, all, men, whosoever, us,“ and they dictate that in particular verses those words only apply to the elect elected predetermined by God. You (not you), you do not get to add in the word, “the elect” behind words in the Bible. John 3:16, “world” according to Calvinism only applies to the elect elected. Evangelicals I will call us, understand the English language and “world” means everybody in the world. Another really big difference is that they do not believe that the sinner has the capacity to respond with a yes to God when they hear the gospel being shared or the word of God being read or the name of Jesus being expressed to them. The Bible cannot contradict itself. If it does the problem is with us. And it is very obvious that there are major contradictions in the theology of Calvinism/reform and what evangelicals believe. In this verse they want to add in, “the elect“. “God does not will that any (of the elect) should perish.” 🧐🤔😦 THAT Right there tells me no way Are they teaching Bible. They just simply have decided to insert the words and the dictated understanding of the elected elect only in many scriptures. Romans 1:20 For the invisible things of God from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse. Anyone who says “they” in that scripture in context is referring to the elect is crazy because it obviously refers to the sinner. Anyone who will say that that refers only to sinners who God has elected to be saved is also crazy. Case dismissed. We share the gospel and the sinners heart becomes convicted by the power of the Holy Spirit and they have the power to make a choice to say yes to God or no. Sometimes God saves people without the intervention of a human. Paul/Saul, a gentleman I heard share his testimony, an atheist I personally know…….. I know there are others. Here is fact: after they ate of the fruit in the garden they gained the knowledge of knowing the difference between what is good and what is evil. And there’s only one good. God! Romans 1:20 says no one has an excuse …… another reason is because the heavens declare the glory of God. In every single person there is a lack that only Jesus can fill. God in HIS sovereignty set up the parameters of the process of salvation. The reform will argue that we’re telling God what to do. NO! A person asks, makes a request by faith for Jesus to come live in their hearts and redeem them and to please forgive them and to please help them live a life that honors God, all of that is done by faith In response to the conviction they feel by the power of the Holy Spirit. Hebrews tells us that faith pleases God.

[@sentjojo]

The main Calvinist mistake is believing predestination implies determinism, but it logically does not

[@OkieAllDay]

Calvinism is NOT a "secondary doctrinal issue." It affects everything from the character of God, the responsibility of man, the extent of the atonement, the need for evangelism, etc. etc. Braxton said you shouldn't leave the church over Calvinism. Then I guess there is NO REASON to leave a church except maybe if they deny the deity of Christ...

[@bryanstclair8548]

Spot on!

[@JackMertens]

“Our God is in the heavens; he does all that he pleases.” ‭‭Psalm‬ ‭115‬:‭3‬

[@forranach]

"The heavens" meaning outer space...

[@edwinlemus7523]

Narcicist

[@j.harperscott]

What does HE please? That's the question. Not proof of Calvinism..

[@Brotheral-pb1oj]

What exactly are you accusing God of?

[@RezG_777]

He pleased that we should be made in His image with free agency.

[@Mikepiles]

Dr. Hunter, As a Calvinist I appreciate your graciousness toward us. In your plea for libertarian free will, you have forgotten to take into account the effect of and relationship to and the power that Satan has over people. Below are some verses for your consideration. I do not consider them proof texts for Calvinism, but worth considering when contemplating the issues. Eph 2:1 And you were dead in your trespasses and sins, Eph 2:2 in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience. Col 1:13 For He rescued us from the domain of darkness, and transferred us to the kingdom of His beloved Son, Col 1:14 in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins. Mar 4:14 "The sower sows the word. Mar 4:15 "These are the ones who are beside the road where the word is sown; and when they hear, immediately Satan comes and takes away the word which has been sown in them. Act 26:15 "And I said, 'Who are You, Lord?' And the Lord said, 'I am Jesus whom you are persecuting. Act 26:16 'But get up and stand on your feet; for this purpose I have appeared to you, to appoint you a minister and a witness not only to the things which you have seen, but also to the things in which I will appear to you; Act 26:17 rescuing you from the Jewish people and from the Gentiles, to whom I am sending you, Act 26:18 to open their eyes so that they may turn from darkness to light and from the dominion of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who have been sanctified by faith in Me.' Joh 8:44 "You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him. Whenever he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies.

[@eiontactics9056]

In Calvinism you make God Satan.

[@Mikepiles]

@@eiontactics9056 Not quite. I was pointing out that Satan is more powerful than fallen mankind. Thus he cannot be ignored in a systematic soteriology. The triune God is Lord over Satan, that is why Satan needed permission to tempt Job. Unsaved fallen people are helpless against Satan. In Calvinism God alone thwarts the wiles of Satan.

[@treythompson4103]

@@eiontactics9056 You’re not very smart, are you

[@ETube1971]

@@Mikepiles That is true for non-Calvinists as well. We don't try to claim that we are more powerful than Satan. But, this is what scripture says in James 4:7: "Submit yourselves, then, to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.". Our responsibility is to submit ourselves to God and resist the devil and He does the rest. Calvinism acts as if we have no responsibility at all because of supposedly not having free will. That is not true and is a dangerous way of looking at things.

[@davidbobalik4864]

@@ETube1971 James is writing to believers. The doctrine of total depravity is one where we cannot come to Christ unless God supernaturally intervenes. Once God has regenerated us, then yes we are on a path of sanctification and conforming to the person of Christ. I read the letter of Paul to the Philippians today and Paul says he is not perfect but striving to become more and more like Christ, but there is no aspect to the process of salvation that is not completed by God. We are sinners by nature and by choice and no one can be saved from that apart from a supernatural act of God. Jesus himself says that Matthew 11:27.

[@ReformedBaptistChurchDC]

As a former Anti Calvinist and now a firm embracer of the Doctrines of Grace, I do want to say I appreciate the demeanor of Dr. Hunter. I am an Evangelist and happily work with and appreciate many of my non Calvinist friends in ministry and church life. Again, I used to be an Anti Calvinist. I make a distinction between Non Calvinists and Anti Calvinists. I was again the latter, so I understand the emotions. I also understand how unhelpful that is for life and ministry. So again, thank you for this interview. I won't go dropping links here or ramble on. However, I've addressed some of these issues in my own short series videos called "Reformed and Conforming" here on KZbin and on the Facebook page of the same name and even an old website. Like this video, they are shorter and study starters, not all-encompassing end all answers. But feel free to look them up and interact if you like. More so than mine, though. I highly recommend John Piper's 2013 TULIP series. He is very pastoral and even has running Q and A going where Calvinists and non Calvinists alike ask questions he engages with. I think those who actually watch the series will be challenged. Anyway, blessings and get out there and call people to repent and believe first. Then debate away with charity. Blessings!

[@TheDangerous123dan]

I'm where you are. But I was never anti calvinism but through studying scripture, even before I'd ever even heard of calvinism, I learned I had already come to certain conclusions ie the 5 points. I'm actually a pastor at a church with a relationship with the Assembly of God. Go figure, right lol. But I think we all can work together to preach the gospel and minister to God's people together. It just requires maturity and mutual respect. When it comes to certain doctrine, election etc we teach both positions and encourage people to prayerfully search the Scripture's for themselves. So far that's worked for us. Blessings my brother.

[@Psawyer555]

So is it true that John 3:16 is talking about Christ dieing for the whole world or only for the elect? And does God create people he hates and sends to Hell no matter what? Example: Esau?

[@masongoodknight1572]

@@Psawyer555 Jesus died for the whole world in a specific sense. The term world has various meanings. Obviously when God tells us that he who loves the world does not have the love of the Father it is clear that this is a different sense. In this sense whole world means without distinction not every single person. As to does God hate some He created? Yes. Scripture says he hates some. Only those who embrace heretical open theism can truly argue against this. Because the omniscient God of scripture, even in Semi Pelagian/Arminian/Synergistic views knows those who will unswervingly live and die in hateful rebellion of Him. As such He would not have a salvific love towards them. Scriptures declares God is kind to all. But kindness does not preclude hate. The issue is that God's emotions are the fountainhead. We cannot truly comprehend them. We grasp dimly emotions as in us they all spring from new knowledge. God has emotions tied to disposition. We were all once children of wrath according to Eph. 2. Under wrath is a position of hatred. But when we are born again we move from wrath to salvation and eternal favor. I commend to you the 2013 John Piper TULIP series here on KZbin. Take care.

[@Psawyer555]

@@masongoodknight1572 the some he hates are the fallen angels and Satan? Or does he also create humans he hates like for example a person that just is an atheist all their lives?

[@Psawyer555]

@@masongoodknight1572 I believe in the Biblical gospel by the way. If anyone causes one of these little ones to stumble it would be better for them to be tied to a millstone and thrown into the ocean.

[@NVRAMboi]

I'm seeing this late, but thank you for this conversation. I do regret that the first part of Dr. Hunter's response (as he was referring to Cain and Abel and God's suggestions to Abel about his sacrifice) was interrupted. I'm not sure the camera man's input advanced the discussion. Too many interruptions of the guest, though he managed to express his opinion(s) in the latter half of this interview. This IS an important issue for discussion as are any/all discussions that potentially affect our eternal salvation. Thank you again for having Dr. Hunter on your channel.

[@dubyag4124]

The most charitable discussion against Calvinism I've heard yet. That was a blessing, thank you brothers.

[@Baltic_Hammer6162]

Charitable. That's a word very much removed from the dark twisted heart of Jean Cauvin man in Geneva. Cauvin's "religion" is actually molded perfectly around his own extreme narcissism and hateful spirit which warped/twisted the Scriptures to justify his own blood lust and evil acts done in the name of God.

[@graftme3168]

Charitable? Or compromising? It should be avoided like the plague!

[@aservant2287]

​@@graftme3168if the Father chooses to make people for Hell and some for Heaven isn't possible that you're actually called to burn? How do you know that He's called you for heaven? Right, there's no assurance in that so as a result you try real hard saying," look at what I'm doing I must be saved. " while the bible teaches that it's a gift lest any man should boast ephesians 2:8-9. Romans 2:11 there's no partiality with God and somehow you're special over your neighbors? Thinking you're better is pride and God resists the proud and gives grace to the humble. 1 peter 5:3 says not to be dictators over the flock but be examples and you think that God would be a dictator forces Himself on people in irresistible grace? It's the Father's desire that ALL would come to knowledge of forgiveness and not willing that any should perish 1 Timothy 2:4, 2 peter 3:9 God doesn't force Himself on anyone He loves them enough to choose Him or He made robots. The danger part of telling people that the Father is responsible for people going to Hell when it's really satan and the person's choice is it actually switches the credit to the wrong party equalling blasphemy of the Holy Spirit that's why when the pharisees said Jesus was doing miracles through satan when it really was God they blasphemed the Holy Spirit. Ask yourself if God wants you be proud and unassured. God is love and desires you to have the rest that He offers to every believer. Hebrews 4:9 there remains a rest for the people of God. Without the rest you're still lost because you're still acting in your own strength and we get to heaven by what Christ did not us. That's the truth my friend

[@ryangallmeier6647]

That's strange, I saw it as one of the most arrogant, self-centered, pride-filled theological discussions by semi-Pelagians (Dr. Braxton Hunter is a semi-Pelagian...just like Papal Rome) who deny the power and efficacy of GRACE ALONE! Sad that these men have ABANDONED the God-blessed Protestant Reformation.

[@JCNewsom]

When I discovered Calvinism, I was very excited (annoyingly so) to finally understand salvation. I do believe there are precious things in the system namely: When the bible says “…and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified.” that it means what it says - if you are predestined, you are called, and if called, you are justified, and if justified there is nothing (not even yourself) that can undo what God has done for “what can separate us from the love of Christ?” So precious because I think it underlines sureness of salvation. I still have never heard a satisfactory explanation of this element and so I will remain happy in believing this truth. On the other hand, I have not heard a satisfactory answer to much of what Braxton brings up. If God determines everything, then all those passages about choice do not make any sense. I think they mean what they say. And so I’m unresolved. I hold these in tension and I’m less argumentative as a result. Perhaps I’ll be happy to remain here. ‭‭‭

[@ilyapolishuk6558]

You left out the beginning of the verse which talks about foreknowledge. "For those He foreknew, He predestined..." this could mean that God knew the heart of the person before the creation, and according to that knowledge he predestined. Therefore it is not God that made the person accept salvation, but God knew that the person would accept it before the person even lived therefore God predestined for the person to be saved... It is such a weird topic to talk about because probably all of us have the wrong understanding when it come to predestination. We live in a time bound universe, but God is not bound by time. Every moment for him is now.

[@manualboyca]

I hold the same tension, though I don’t think there is any contradiction between God decreeing everything that comes to pass, and humans being free to choose and being responsible for their actions. It would be a contradiction if God was a human like us, but God is not bound by time and space, so he is a being unlike us in many ways, which I can’t comprehend fully, so I trust what Scripture has revealed. It seems that the tension causes many to choose one side or the other (God’s sovereignty vs. Human responsibility/freedom) rather than letting them live in harmony as Scripture teaches. We will fully understand in the life hereafter. Cheers!

[@JCNewsom]

My simple reply to the “foreknowledge” argument is that I think it does not mean what you are saying …merely. There is a “knowing” in scripture that is more than simply “knowledge of.” There is no person that God does not have knowledge of. There is not even a sparrow that God doesn’t have foreknowledge of in this sense. This is a personal, relational, even loving knowledge. Compare to the passage where Christ says “I never knew you.” I don’t care to debate it here but if you would be interested in hearing one of the best expositions of this passage- go to Desiring God’s website and listen to John Piper’s sermons through Romans. (The whole thing is very good and worth a listen to even if you aren’t a Calvinist.) Which reminds me of a point worth making - say what you will about reformed types but I have a hard time finding verse by verse preachers that aren’t reformed. Closest I found was Calvary Chapel.

[@Tigerex966]

Start at the first verse, this is for those who are already in Christ Jesus by belief. In him.

[@Tigerex966]

@@manualboyca there is, it was s a contradiction, you cannot have both.

[@Cici_Dial]

AN ARMINIAN COMMENTED "They were "Calvinist" under the cover of "PURITANS" Full Blown "Calvinist" a known fact. so are ashamed, to mention, who they really are." MY RESPONSE Hi, I am now a "full blown" Calvinist, and what I am most ashamed of is that I wasted 40 years of my life being an Arminian who despised Calvinism. During those 40 years I read the works of the Reformers and the Puritans, seeking to prove them wrong. I ended up in the dilemma of being convinced of the truth of Calvinism while still hating it as much as ever. I was miserable. I cried out to God to push me off the fence into whichever one was true. God pushed and simultaneously removed my stubborn stupidity. I landed squarely in the middle of full blown Calvinism, of which I am NOT ASHAMED! As for your assessment that Puritans were ashamed of their Calvinism, I direct you to volume 2 of the works of Augustus Toplady, where he covers the history of the Puritans and their adamant confession of and support of their Calvinism. BTW. Toplady also started out hating Calvinism but was convinced otherwise after reading these two works; 1. "The Doctrine of Absolute Predestination" by Jerome Zanchius, available free from grace-ebooks.com 2. "Sermons Upon John 17" by Thomas Manton, available free from Monergism.com Grace and Peace

[@johnyates7566]

The doctrine of free will is the doctrine of the flesh because your flesh hates the fact that God has chosen and not you "it's unfair ".

[@dw5523]

The best argument I've found against Calvinism is this: If creation is deterministic, and I don't believe in Calvinism, then God must have determined that I not believe in it. If God also determined that salvation is through faith in Christ alone, and has determined that some believers place their faith in Jesus apart from the doctrines of Calvin, then those believers will also be saved apart from their faith in said doctrines, just like the millions of believers who were saved before Calvin created his theology. Therefore, the doctrines of Calvinism become moot. Unless of course we want to argue that faith in the doctrines of Calvin are necessary for salvation, which I've never heard a Calvinist argue.

[@douglas61920]

This is called double predestination and objections to it assume that ANYBODY is worthy of heaven. I’m not 100% sure about Calvinism but there sure are A LOT of verses that support it. If you want to disprove predestination, it must be done solely by Scripture and not what you or I think is “fair.”

[@joshwatson5561]

It comes down to the interpretation of said proof text that Calvinist use. I, not being a Calvinist, don’t find them persuasive. I think a lot of Calvinist would agree that there are plenty of verses that champion choice but they tend to not take the “straightforward” meaning of those verses. So there is always a philosophical discussion in concert with the Biblical discussion.

[@RobAnderssen]

I think someone important once said, “unless I am convinced by sacred Scripture…” You lost your argument as soon as you conceded Calvinism has “40-50 proof texts” then ignored Scripture to make a philosophical argument.

[@ravikeller9626]

I literally had the same reaction. Like, I'm sorry but if you have to explain away 40-50 verses in order to make your theology work, it probably means your theology is wrong!

[@oracleoftroy]

Yup. My personal favorite trope out of this camp is how "nobody becomes a Calvinist by reading the Bible" while they produce tons of resources on how to de-Calvinize the Bible. If it wasn't there in the first place, they wouldn't feel like they always have to remove it.

[@foooooolk]

That's right 😀 he shot himself in the foot 🦶

[@michaelmiky11]

From a non calvinist perspective, you guys here are just doing the calvinist trope again, by being very eager to shame others for not respecting the bible. Can you seriously not conceive that we might both read the bible and come to different conclusions about God's character?

[@RobAnderssen]

@@michaelmiky11 Of course we can, because we all once read and came to the same conclusions until convinced by Scripture of the Calvinist viewpoint. There is no shame here, just critique. I watched the video eager to hear "the best argument against Calvinism." Just like when I watched the Baptism debate between Drs. Sproul and MacArthur: not to root for my side, but to be persuaded. Dr. Sproul gave a convincing theological argument, but Dr. MacArthur gave the better SCRIPTURAL argument. As much as I love and appreciate Dr. Sproul, his argument did not persuade. If Dr. Hunter gave a great Scriptural argument, I would have listened and meditated on it. He did not, thus I am not persuaded. No animosity; no shame; no trolling, just a longing for Biblical truth. Blessings to you, friend.

[@BenWandert]

The first thing that Calvinists will point out in response is the lack of a biblical argument. Reformed theology is derived from scripture, not philosophy. As many accuse, we do not start with philosophical determinism and attempt to force scripture to fit the mold. We start with scripture, and the whole counsel of scripture. You take the fact that there is no excuse in Romans 1 and you impose your own definition of what that must mean, based on, admittedly, your own philosophical assumptions. In the end of chapter 8 we are told this of those who are "called according to his purpose" - All things work for their good, the spirit intercedes for them, they are foreknown, they are predestined to be conformed to the image of God's son, they are justified, they are glorified, no one can accuse them because it is God who justified them through Christ. -Are all called? If so --> Universalism, because these benefits are guaranteed to the called. -Are some called? If so --> Calvinism. Later in chapter 9 we are told of how God chose some for mercy and some for destruction, based upon nothing that they could have done, but according to his purposes in election. Even though the subject was handled charitably with good points about divisiveness, Christians should not take any conclusions from this video since it did not even begin to address scripture except for reference to one verse. And I understand for the sake of time you chose to take the philosophical route, but it ultimately amounted to hearing one man's opinion about why it makes out God to be someone he doesn't like. If you are going to call this the BEST argument against Calvinism with no exegesis or biblical argumentation, then your points may as well be ignored. However, I would love to hear Mr. Braxton return with biblical argumentation.

[@Brotheral-pb1oj]

Calvinists are nearly irreparably delusional!

[@ryleighloughty3307]

Please name one thing about which they are delusional.

[@Brotheral-pb1oj]

@ryleighloughty3307 Limited Atonement is a delusional heresy, which is an outright attack on the character and purposes of a Merciful and Gracious God!. The calvinist definition of Total Depravity is a delusional attempt to eradicate the consciousness of humanity and places God in a position to play Eenie Meenie Mynee Moe when it comes to Unconditional Election!

[@nokeo08]

I'm a Roman Catholic. Saying that compatibleism just is determinism is nonsense. This is not a good argument against Calvinism.

[@DanielCathers]

Compatibilism grants determinism. It is an attempt to reconcile determinism with free will. On the other hand, the Calvinist simply needs to reconcile God's sovereignty with our free will.

[@scuzlol]

What does you being Roman Catholic have to do with this conversation?

[@coyotebuttons]

The Bible simultaneously teaches that God is sovereign, over salvation, and also that we as individuals make real decisions that we are responsible for. It’s mysterious. But it’s what the Bible says. And the Bible does not teach free will over salvation. Our will is in bondage to sin and we are dead.

[@scuzlol]

@@coyotebuttons Does the individual not choose to trust in Christ not only once but daily? If not, and it's only the work of God doesn't that negate what you said about humans making real choices? I agreed what you said in the first part about it's mysterious, but then it seems like you're wanting to determine the nuances. The issue isn't free will "over" salvation, it's what is the nature of man, the intention of creation, and the role of the incarnation of the logos regarding human nature.

[@coyotebuttons]

@@scuzlol maybe i wasn’t clear, so I’ll try to clarify- when it comes to repentance and faith, our decision (without the work of the Holy Spirit and the gift of regeneration) is always to deny. We are dead in sin. And the scripture is absolutely clear on this. I’m not trying to describe how the mysteries relate- that we make real decisions, and that God is completely sovereign, i would argue that our real decisions completely accord with his plan- this is in keeping with the reformed viewpoint. What i would hesitate to try to explain is how those things can be true at the same time- that’s where the mystery is. Our decision to repent and believe is because of the work of the Holy Spirit in us, he draws, and thank God he does or I would not have wanted to repent on my own!

[@jasonmason6909]

I feel like Calvinism makes God a tyrant… who God is is important

[@EdMelendez]

Please explain.

[@Bobbyhiddn]

Based on his argument, we must thank Abraham for the entirety of the Bible, for if he had made another choice, God would be powerless to stop him. Men may believe like him in daylight, but they pray like Calvinists: “Lord, please save my friends and family.”

[@Bobbyhiddn]

I’ll say also that he has defined the Bible as a book of man’s choices, when it is clearly a book that points to God’s plan superseding the evil of men. Thus, prophecy. Without Calvinism, there can be no fulfilled prophecy. He has constructed a man-centered theology.

[@Cici_Silo]

I was Arminian for 40 years. Then God removed my stupidity and now I am Calvinist. That was 40 years of my life wasted believing a lie that debased God and promotes man.

[@to6955]

Whether you believe Calvinism or not, everyone prays for others’ salvation like a calvanist…. Lord draw them. Lord change their hearts. Etc.

[@everettschoenke2659]

Something can smell good like a pie and draw you in. Someone can give a good argument and soften your heart to a certain topic. That doesn’t make either of those things in control to that capacity.

[@austinfondren5053]

Why pray for something He already did on the cross? John 12:32 moment

[@TheChristianFiveAndDime]

It’s funny how arminians miss that little nugget.

[@rk5782]

Best comment!

[@ETube1971]

That isn't praying like a Calvinist, it's praying like a Christian who wants others to be saved. We all (Calvinists and non-Calvinists) believe that the Lord has to draw people to Himself in order for them to be saved. But, what Calvinists miss is that people can resist that drawing. “You stiff-necked people! Your hearts and ears are still uncircumcised. You are just like your ancestors: You always resist the Holy Spirit! - Acts 7:51 Jesus said that many are called to salvation, but few are chosen (Matthew 22:14). Do you think those who are called, but not chosen, had no opportunity to be saved? Do you think God's call for their salvation was not genuine?

[@ThebeardedLefty]

Would have loved to hear an argument against Calvinism that leaned more on scripture and less on "that just doesn't jive" and "my intuition isn't agreeing with this". To say there is no scripture that implies a Calvinistic view makes me curious to hear your take on Romans 9.

[@josephbrandenburg4373]

I grew up in a reformed church and always thought Romans 9 taught calvinism, and it never sat well with me. It felt cruel and unfair (because it is, if you understand it that way). I read Romans again, recently, in its entirety. After reading it in context, it's clear that it was a specific example Paul was using when speaking of the election of the Jews (the "chosen people") and the gentiles. There is a three- or four-chapter section where Paul is talking about this, beginning in ch 8. So, the two vessels were the Jews who were chosen and the gentiles who were not, and visa versa - the chosen Jews who did not believe and were hardened and rejected, and the gentiles who believed and were accepted in spite of their foreign birth (which I think is expounded on further in chapter 11). I don't think my understanding of this passage is perfect, yet. But it seems clear to me that teaching Calvinism from Romans 9 is an abuse of the text when the context is considered. And honestly, I was relieved to discover this. I'm undecided about Calvinism but I hate the idea of God predestining people to hell, because it seems unfair to hold them accountable for one choice they didn't make (Adam's) and not another (the choice to believe that they were never given).

[@josephbrandenburg4373]

@The Cockney Christian I don't see any direct references to salvation in that chapter in Matthew, nor in Romans 9 which you alluded to. I think that's reading stuff into the text. I am not decided on the soteriology issue, but I don't think I can ever believe in a Calvinist perspective if it doesn't somehow harmonize libertarian free will and divine foreknowledge. It's important to me that people are only punished for what they chose to do. I don't think Calvinism is necessary to beliee that faith is a gift of God. I'm not sure the doctrine of total depravity rules out the idea that people can choose God, if the Gospel itself is the word of God and therefore living and active. I can't stomach the idea of limited atonement, either. Doesn't jive with me, nor with the way I understand the Bible.

[@josephbrandenburg4373]

@The Cockney Christian But I'm saying Romans 9 is not at all about individual salvation. The whole passage from Romans 8-11 or so is about Jews and Gentiles. The vessels mentioned in Romans 9 are not meant to be individual believers and unbelievers but the nations of Israel and the Gentiles (represented in the quotation from Malachi as Israel and Edom). I used to reluctantly assent to the Calvinist worldview until I read that again recently in a Bible study, and realized I had been taking it oit of context and reading the idea of salvation into the word "elect" when it was never there to begin with.

[@josephbrandenburg4373]

@The Cockney Christian John 6:37 looks like OSAS to me. No one "turned me away". I was rwised Reformed, but never really got into the theological side. I've been more curious about it recently precisely because I don't think the Biblical case is very convincing. Taking a few verses by themselves, out of context, and reading an idea into them is something I had to learn to avoid when I was trying to figure out Genesis (which I do not think is a literal historical account, something that caused me a great deal of trouble before I found a way to resolve it).

[@truthseeker5698]

google or youtube non-calvinistic Romans 9........wonderful to finally have immediate access to refuting the fake news/media/seminary/book publishers/with such a severe bias in favor of calvinism and reformed theology.............now the instant access to varying views has shone a light on the darkness of this systematic/doctrine. Thank God!

[@DeshCanter]

I’m a United States Navy Chaplain, and despite being a graduate of Calvin College, I don’t believe in determinism as it is taught under the Calvinist rubric. There’s a long story there but I won’t bore you with it. I will share a quick, true anecdote. I have many friends and colleagues across the theological spectrum. At times we engage in friendly theological debate over bar food and drinks. On one occasion my Church of Christ pastor friend and my Evangelical Lutheran friend were debating Calvinism vs Armenianism. My Church of Christ friend concluded as our food arrived, “Ron, you’re just going to have to accept that God preordained me to be an Armenian.” While not strictly a theological point scored, the statement does highlight one of the main problems with Calvinism.

[@user-rj8fv6fl9e]

Yes. As does this verse rarely heard. 2 Peter 2:1, which says, “But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord WHO BOUGHT THEM, and bring on themselves swift destruction

[@troycarpenter3675]

It’s not about why Calvinism is wrong; it should be why traditionalism is correct.

[@robfiore1503]

After a decade of study and research I still can't believe any thinking person believes the doctrines of Calvinism. I really can't. It goes against the very essence of a loving God who wants all to find salvation through Christ. My family are all Calvinist and it breaks my heart daily. It is not a secondary issue. It is a primary issue because it goes to the NATURE and CHARACTER of the God we serve. They irreparably distort our God to the point of being unrecognizable. These teachings make Christianity seem unjust at best and horrific at worst. That's why they never teach it to new Christians because they know it would scare them away.

[@isaacpy8195]

Examples?

[@robfiore1503]

@@isaacpy8195 The "U" in the Calvinist TULIP states that God unconditionally chooses one group to be saved, leaving the other group to be "passed over" with the result being they are damned to hell based on nothing they did. The notion that God is merciful to have saved anyone (as he is not required to save anyone because we all deserve hell) is irrelevant. The fact remains the Calvinist God arbitrarily damns most people to hell and there is nothing they can do about it. This contradicts the nature of a loving God.

[@isaacpy8195]

@@robfiore1503 so when he chose Israel of all the nations to be his chosen and when he said “I will have mercy upon who I have mercy,” does that go against love? Why do you assume humans should have the chance to be in his presence for eternity? It seem incompatible with “human achievement can save us!!!”

[@robfiore1503]

@@isaacpy8195 We should always ask "chosen for what?" Calvinists wrongly assume chosen for SALVATION. The Old Testament tells the story of how God set about creating, distinguishing, and preserving that race. (Deuteronomy 7:6) The ultimate goal of God’s choice of the Jews as His chosen people was to produce the Messiah, Jesus Christ, who would be the Savior of the world. Jesus had to come from some nation or people, and God chose Israel.

[@isaacpy8195]

@@robfiore1503 The reason I brought that point up was that God has discretionary power to choose certain groups of people as his elect or chosen. The same line of questioning from Armenians can literally be applied to God choosing Israel as his chosen people. Why didn’t he choose the Samaritans? Why didn’t he choose the Egyptians? (He didn’t chose them for any reason outside of love. Therefore, God can choose a group and not another out of love. Like the elect) It all goes back to the line that God will have mercy upon who he has mercy. Whether in creating a lineage for his son to be born and therefore we can be adopted in or for his elect.

[@wilsonforney8206]

Reformed brother checking in: I appreciated this brother’s heart! It takes a real man to look another man in the eye and say you think he is wrong. I thought his comment about the church divisiveness was SPOT on! These ideas really become a problem if they would lead you to divisiveness. Keep up the work for the Kingdom!

[@TheMidnightModder]

It does involve the gospel so is divisiveness a bad thing? This isn't mere meat sacrificed to idols.

[@wilsonforney8206]

@@TheMidnightModder I agree that it isn't meat sacrificed to idols, but I think the principle is the same. If you are not able to able to have fellowship/be a member of a church because of these important theological distinctive then it would be better to find a different church than invoke a church split. Now, if I were at an Arminian church and it was the only sound church within an hours drive, I would have conversations with the Pastoral team, but in a desire to persuade them, ready to retain membership and fellowship if I were to fail in persuading them.

[@TheMidnightModder]

@@wilsonforney8206 But how can the church be biblically sound if they're preaching Calvinism or Arminism? If they're wrong then the church isn't biblically sound. Though I do understand your point, and I have left churches in the past because it was better for me to leave than to destroy what little biblical truth they did have.

[@wilsonforney8206]

@@TheMidnightModder I guess Im confused, a church can still be biblically sound regardless of what side of this issue they fall. And I agree with you, unless reformation without divisiveness is possible for a person, finding a different church is a best.

[@TheChristianNationalist8692]

@@wilsonforney8206 These Church splits, let’s just be obvious, wouldn’t have occurred if Calvinist pastors at every interview were and would simply tell the whole truth of their convictions prior to taking their office. We have had nothing but deceit from this corner for awhile and no offense, but no ministry with a believer who holds such views

[@jaydenphilben7716]

“Here’s what the Bible says, but I need to test it through the lens of my finite human understanding to decide if I believe it or find a way to make it fit better with my human philosophy.” That’s what I hear and I have been there. When I became a “Calvinist” I was sad. I wrestled with it and pleaded with God for his word to be more compatible with what I WANT it to say. I thought he was unfair. But the more I wrestle with, delight in, and am nurtured by the Bible, the more I recognize how just he is, and how grateful I am that he is in control and not me. And in that gratefulness I bear fruit and continue to be transformed by the spirit. I owe all to him.

[@coreyl6647]

No. That’s not “what the Bible says”. If you look at it like that then you are understanding the Bible through your finite understanding, guilty of the same criticism you are making of this guy. What I feel Calvinist don’t do is the most basic thing, which is use common sense. You could also call it discernment, but Calvinism does not really make sense with the whole Bible. People have the ability to choose, that is the whole point. Jesus wants you to choose him. Choosing God does not give credit to humans, it gives glory to God. Which seems to be a stumbling block for Calvinists. The Bible is very clear that faith in not a work. Calvinism sorta makes the entire thing make no sense.

[@KC_Streams]

The central issue with this argument is that he's saying, "the Bible talks as if free will exists, therefore the Bible must affirm free will", but the problem is everybody talks as if free will exists, even those who don't affirm free will. The reason for this is that the absence of free will is a metaphysical reality--not something we directly experience. Therefore colloquially it makes sense to distinguish between what we experience as a direct restriction on our choices, and the presence of no such apparent restriction. However, in a metaphysical sense there is ultimately no distinction

[@HonrbleMention]

We do not have free will. Unless God elected to choose you you're still dead in sins and trespasses and are at enmity with Him. If you recited the sinners prayer, confessed danced around the church hall mess, thought you repented, then got baptized may hath deceived you into a Christian but that doesn't make you a vessel of mercy. 👍

[@RJ_William88]

Just curious, will Calvinists get a turn to make their case on this channel? Also, it seems to me that the best case against Calvinist is that people don’t like Calvinism, which ironically fortifies my Calvinism every time I hear someone try to make a case against it.

[@wmarkfish]

You can be Christian without it. Why torture your brain for the sake of some guy named Calvin who was happy to make a name for himself (and who burned fellow Christians at the stake).

[@malcolmscrivener8750]

@@wmarkfish They were heretics and were trying to propagate their lies . The Lord Jesus said “Repent or you will likewise perish !” He made the lake of fire for liars . He chose His elect before the foundation of the world . He draws them to Himself . Everyone are dead in their sins before His Holy Spirit does this . You have nothing to do with this work . Believe the Bible . Don’t try to boast that you chose God and saved yourself . The self righteous will be cast into the fire with the liars and all enemies of God ! Salvation is of the Lord . TULIP

[@wmarkfish]

@@malcolmscrivener8750 You sound as if you'd like to burn a few heretics yourself.

[@zenvultra]

@@malcolmscrivener8750 You’re preaching a false Gospel. Just because we accept what God has provided for salvation by his grace through faith in the lord Jesus Christ, it doesn’t mean we saved ourselves and can boast. If someone gave you a gift and you accepted it, would you boast that you accepted it? No because you can’t boast in accepting a gift, it’s only about gratitude towards the person giving the gift. We are grateful and thankful for the gift of salvation God has provided. It’s all done by God’s grace and mercy, just because we repent and have faith doesn’t mean we get the credit, that’s a warped level of thinking and goes against God’s word.

[@malcolmscrivener8750]

@@zenvultra By the grace of God I am a calvinist . TULIP

[@Brandaniron]

Ken Wilsons book The foundation of Augustinian Calvinism proves that Calvin got his philosophy from Augustine who got his deterministic philosophy from the gnostic sects. It’s a great book.

[@aletheia8054]

He wrote that book to cover up his lies in his dissertation.

[@neoturfmasterMVS]

The Lord Almighty has sworn, "Surely, as I have planned, so it will be, and as I have purposed, so it will happen."

[@xneutralgodx]

Planned one garden two possible choices ,so it will be and as I have purposed two possible outcomes for your choices I have given you , so it will happen How GOD has exercised his allowance and disallowance of us is far different then a exercise of absolute control but rather as much control as he wills . GOD wills us to will as much as GOD will allow. H

[@neoturfmasterMVS]

@@xneutralgodx Nah, you got it wrong. "GOD wills us to will as much as GOD will allow. " This is non-sense. I mean humanly speaking it sounds good. A bit like carny knowledge, something you'd hear at a carnival. Yet has nothing to do with the character of the true God.

[@xneutralgodx]

@@neoturfmasterMVS spiritual speaking I guess it sounds like nonsense and carnival to you but by the understanding of how a king and father would exercise his rulership and establishment it makes sense in comparison to absolute dictator ship. In reality GOD gave us the power to choose the choices he has given us(ie Garden). The only control GOD exercises normally in everyday is the surrounding environment of the will of are spirit. Therefore are will is limited to are surrounding environment he has created. In conclusion the possible choices and outcomes are far more predictable by the natural limitation orchestrated by the environment the will is placed in . In everyday situations the probability predictions are very high but in order to get absolute prediction one must increase involvement expeditionally. In which case all prophecy deals with GOD in personally interacting with mankind to achieve certain results. Thus perfect foreknowledge deals with GODs intervention. Makes sense for a living GOD and living beings.

[@KevinSmile]

I'm sure non-calvinists agree. You're presupposing that calvinisms idea of that plan is true when you quote that. It's the equivalent of saying calvinism is true because calvinism is true.

[@neoturfmasterMVS]

@@KevinSmile Your silly. I quoted another's words. Your presupposing is on him and his words, I said nothing.

[@jenkinsgenetia6708]

Am I the only one waiting for the specific argument answer?

[@SotS1689]

Seems like a nice guy and I appreciate his tone. My frustration is he didn't steel man the Calvinist position, but dealt rather hastily and (IMO) sloppily with some key distinctions they make. He never really defined what he meant by "could have done otherwise." That is the language of ability, and Calvinists argue for distinctions between different kinds of ability (see Turretin and Edwards). In fact, he even conflates moral and natural (physical) responsibility in his illustration about his daughter. He mentioned some Calvinists, but the fact that he didn't bring up any of the major arguments from, say, The Freedom of the Will by Edwards, showing how moral responsibility is incompatible with libertarian freedom, means I'm still very unconvinced of his arguments.

[@curtisquick1582]

I have been a Calvinist as long as I can remember, long before I even knew what Calvinism was. One day while in College I came across the five points of Calvinism and I was underwhelmed. I said to myself, this is Christianity, not Calvinism. But later on I understood that there were other views that also upheld a high view of scripture and of God's sovereignty. For me, predestination is not big deal. I come from a physics background and so I understand that when God created our universe he was creating our space-time continuum. Of course, since God created it, it was separate from his domain (heaven). Not only in location, but also in time. There is no relationship between God's time and ours. Because of this, everything that happens in our universe (past, present, and future) is disconnected from heaven. When God transcends heaven to interact with our universe he is like a person in a library pulling a book from the shelf. In this analogy, the book could represent a location and the pages could represent the flow of time. The point is, God can be anywhere and anytime. Of course he knows our future. To him, it is just like an entry in a book (that he has the power to edit). This does not mean that God is in anyway forcing us to be robots. When he made us in his image, he gave us free will. Following Jesus is a choice and Calvinism must not be used to argue that we have less, or no, responsibility to follow Jesus and love our neighbor. The choice is ours. But from God's perspective, that choice has already been made.

[@guhmpy1164]

I don’t know how anyone can disagree with this

[@mcgragor1]

Interesting take. My position in some ways is similar to yours as I see it as more of a mystery than I used to, but the reality that no one can deny, is only Israel was saved (except a few) until the gospel came and then the gospel spread and it took hundreds of years to reach the American Indian. Many die therefore with no gospel. Now we can debate what that means, but Paul made it clear that there was no other name in which men could be saved and the gospel is all centered on Christ. When I read the story of Joseph I see man doing something, but then the text saying "but got meant it for good", implying that God ultimately is orchestrating how He wants things to work, yet men are still responsible, again, a mystery, yet hard to deny what the text says. Finally, Romans 9 no matter how many times I have read it, studied it, heard the opposite views of it, I simply cannot deny what the text clearly says, yet I also know men are responsible for their own sin, so again I appeal to mystery, just like in Physics, which you mentioned, there are a lot of things that seem to be true, but are hard to comprehend how they work. Why then would we not expect the God who created all things to have some difficult to reconcile doctrine, shoot, even the Trinity is difficult.

[@mattbishton9320]

@@guhmpy1164 this is very disagreeable. There are weak arguments here disproving a logical reality. The choice is ours and yes God knows which is fine , God knows, but there are many issues with this, to name just a few, for God to predetermine ones salvation means technically, regardless of what man does, in Gods eyes, some are better than others, that simply isn’t true. We’re all sinners and your not the better of them. Secondly, God knows the final point, but just because he does doesn’t mean everything is determined here right now. That theory is pretty much saying we’re all puppets on Gods string and that ultimately whatever happens he will pull the string to either us in hell or either in heaven. So yh there’s a lot of biased on this view

[@wesleyjones7186]

@@mattbishton9320 Ar you saying that God doesn't know the end from the beginning?

[@enoch3874]

Seven minutes and 39 seconds in and this guy has the same problem that most people have with Bible interpretation and that is to impose the dynamic of "my set of versus versus your set of verses" but the thing is we all know that this makes void the scripture, why do we do it? So this argument usually comes down to the problem of evil and soteriology.... I'll listen to the rest of the video of course.... Jesus of Nazareth the God of the gods who presides over the Heavenly Council knows everything we do before we do it, nevertheless, gives us choices and that's it really what the problem is, that we can't wrap our heads around it because we have, this thing, this assumption, to where......."if I can't understand it then it must not exist or must not be true".... and that is essentially The Atheist argument or the atheist reasoning for pure empiricism... that inherently is the Assumption behind this sort of argumentation... The Lord God says his thoughts are higher than our thoughts and we also have verses like Deuteronomy 29:29 why can't we just leave it at that? There is nothing anyone has ever done including me and including any person reading this that they themselves did not want to do and I know for a lot of people that's where the problem starts to come in but the God of Abraham Isaac and Jacob is the Potter we are the clay... and why can't we just be grateful that were we were chosen to be part of creation so it's a mystery you're not fully supposed to understand just leave it at that , I mean, can anyone really empirically scientifically verify their own reasoning... does anyone have any memory before they were conceived? ... with regards the problem of evil and soteriology I think the miscommunication is the difference that people don't think of, and that's usually that some people have a man centered Theology and some people have a god-centered theology... either your will over God's sovereignty or God's sovereignty over your will .. I believe that's ultimately what it comes down to....

[@casenswartz7278]

As a Calvinist, I completely agree that we should spend more time evangelizing over debating, that being said, the whole argument raised in this video is a question raised by Paul in Romans 9, Paul states "Some of you will say 'why does God still blame us, for who can resist His will?''", to which Paul answers "But who are you a human being to talk back to God", The book of Romans as a whole seems to teach that man is depraved and responsible, yet its ultimately God who saves, from beginning to end, as He so pleases.

[@donrussell6099]

If you believe that scripture is God breathed and you read what Paul says in Roman 9 then the argument against Calvinism is over. Dr Hunter admits that scripture teach Calvinism but because it does not fall in line of what he want to believe, it must be false. That is a very scary place to put yourself.

[@donatist59]

If Calvinism is true, why "should" we spend time evangelizing? God forces us either to evangelize or not evangelize. We have no say in the matter. There is no such thing as "should". The Allah of Calvinism is obviously not the God of the Bible!

[@casenswartz7278]

@@donatist59 I believe in free will. I’m not a determinist. I hate that everyone assumes that because I believe God chooses who is saved God coerced and forces every action I take. So, evangelize.

[@donatist59]

@casenswartz7278 I just don't see the point for evangelism or even the sacrifice of Christ if Calvinism is true. Joe will be saved no matter what you or I do. And nothing makes it clear how one can be a Calvinist and believe in free will at the same time except as a verbal assent to assuage one's conscience or avoid condemning God for the truly awful moral failings that Calvinism would implicate him in.

[@casenswartz7278]

@@donatist59 ever hear of a vessel? Ya God uses people. Be the person God uses to save His elect!! Whenever I evangelize or go on mission trips, I go in faith knowing someone will be saved because God promises it. I go knowing it’s not about what I say, whether I have the perfect words or not because it’s God who regenerates the person. This is the verse I stand on: ”One night the Lord spoke to Paul in a vision: “Do not be afraid; keep on speaking, do not be silent. For I am with you, and no one is going to attack and harm you, because I have many people in this city.”“ ‭‭Acts‬ ‭18‬:‭9‬-‭10‬ (and the common consensus among theologians is that the people in this city are unsaved and destined to be saved)

[@scherfcom]

Excellent and absolutely true! Very encouraging!

[@celiasleigh2805]

Romans 9:"18Therefore He has mercy on whom He wills, and whom He wills He hardens.19 You will say to me then, “Why does He still find fault? For who has resisted His will?” 20 But indeed, O man, who are you to reply against God? Will the thing formed say to him who formed it, “Why have you made me like this?”

[@UniteAgainstEvil]

Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel? Therefore, thou son of man, say unto the children of thy people, The righteousness of the righteous shall not deliver him in the day of his transgression: as for the wickedness of the wicked, he shall not fall thereby in the day that he turneth from his wickedness; neither shall the righteous be able to live for his righteousness in the day that he sinneth. Ezekiel 33:11‭-‬12 KJV

[@Ryan-1992]

Pride is the issue when it comes to rejecting the clear teaching that is in scripture regarding Calvinism. I struggled early on in my faith with the doctrines of Grace. Through a lot of prayer and searching the scriptures I began to see that the Bible teaches these doctrines. Once you see it, you can’t unsee it. Give God all the glory my Christian brothers & sisters. He is worthy of all praise.

[@truthseeker5698]

Ryan, after the UVLADE shootings, all I could keep saying was give God all the glory, Glory Praise and Honor, I then opened up the WCF 3:1 AND 5:1 to be comforted knowing God planned this before the world began,. I was so excited as the news cycle started reporting the officers waited in the hall, I prayed and thanked God the Great Sovereign for this immense inaction he planned and as the blood drained out of the teacher and students, I played to God be the glory, Praise Him, he is worthy. I know this will be such a profound testimony of the God I serve that so many will want to follow Him. Sounds just like Jesus, doesn't it Ryan??

[@Ryan-1992]

@@truthseeker5698 all you did was create a straw man with your post my friend. We do not believe God is behind the scenes making people do such abominable acts of violence. We confirm free will, but that our free will is only to choose to do evil (Jer 17:9) secondly, my statement on giving God all the glory was in terms of our Salvation. His grace, mercy, our faith, our repentance are all gifts from the Father.

[@truthseeker5698]

@@Ryan-1992 Sure, He gets the full thankfulness, reverence, glory for providing a way to be with Him. Straw man.......what do you do with the proverbs? are these not a guide. the psalms full of pleadings and tremendous expression, the struggle, .....we are stewards, and this stewardship can be cultivated in an array of areas , this most oft will occur while one remains "in the vine." The diligent application of faith is necessary. The reformed calvinistic structure is other godly with its determinism and declaration mankind "inabilities" set in preordination or sinful nature. This "nature" can be curbed, molded and refined and shaped by ones choices and how one makes their choices. God IS love and desires a relationship. This necessitates a choice and interaction. you may attribute "glory to God" for salvation, but , the vast majority of this depraved systematic do not. Personality,, development, motivation, social and familial influence often impact ones leaning/ proclivity to subscribe to beliefs. reformed/calvinistic persons most of the time will not do the necessary work to even be a bit introspective and consider the ramifications of their systematics conclusion. How many of these persons truly live integrated daily with adhering to this systematic?

[@truthseeker5698]

Pride is a pillar issue that has kept this demonic systematic of calvinism /reformed theology relevant.

[@andrewlopez638]

Not clear at all. For example what do you make of 2 Peter 2:1. If limited atonement is true and also preservation of the saints how does this verse make sense?

[@undergroundpublishing]

The ONLY question is whether the Bible teaches that regeneration precedes faith. The answer is "no." 1) No one was born-again prior to Pentecost and the Bible CLEARLY teaches this. 2) No one is saved prior to believing, and being saved IS being regenerated. Ask if you don't understand. Keep it to yourself if you do not have a PROOF TEXT to the contrary. (Not an argument, a PROOOOOOOF TEXT)

[@Over-for-now]

Thank God HE chose to save me as a small child. He opened my eyes to the Saviour Jesus. I knew by HIS Grace that I was lost in sin😅

[@Panfleto89]

Thanks for this interview. I was becoming a lot (Vitriol) Like Dr. Braxton said about Calvinism, so what you said in the end did make me soften my heart a little, it's not worth ruining relationships because of it. I do wish for my Calvinist brothers and sisters to also examine the truth, but not worth getting in arguments about it. I am also more about spreading the gospel. Thank you Dr. Braxton

[@askbrettmanning]

Brother… Maybe we have examined it. The lips in assumptions that you are automatically right and we are automatically wrong on the interpretation of Soteriology are extremely divisive. I don't tell my Armenian brothers that they're not following scripture. I see evidence on both sides. This is like saying I wish my all millennial brothers were all post millennial or pre-tribulation were post-tribulation. It becomes divisive when you automatically assume that another person hasn't done their homework. I hope you see it. It's a little more clearly. God bless.

[@leenieledejo6849]

​@@askbrettmanning It's not just Calvinism OR Armenianism. Only people who spend more time reading books by men than reading the Bible limit themselves to these two categories.

[@askbrettmanning]

@@leenieledejo6849 well… There's more leaps in assumptions being made. It's funny how Christians want to start judging each other when we're supposed to be playing for the same team. You don't know how much I read. If you don't know what it is, I read. About 5% of my energies of been used at looking at Calvinism, eschatology, apologetics, and creationism. The rest of it has been used on general theology. Something to think about their brother.

[@dbdbdbdbdb123]

​@@askbrettmanningCalvin God sends non elect infants to eternal hell. Repent

[@akpath77]

@@askbrettmanningThank you for saying this. It’s possible for people to approach scripture faithfully and fall on different sides of an argument. There are things that are clearly taught, that we must uphold, but there are also things (like the subject of this video) which are more ambiguous. It shouldn’t be so hard to hear one another in good faith and not assume ignorance or bad intentions. All Christians should read James 3:17 to learn how they should conduct themselves in these arguments.

[@saleswithKyle]

There are 2 statements you have to get past, both by Jesus: You can't come to Jesus unless God draws you first, and you can't see the Father unless Jesus chooses to reveal the Father to you. There are more, but these are so straightforward as to be unassailable. God has to act on us first, before we can choose God. Regardless of which philosophical position you choose, they can't account for these 2 core ideas. I love the gentleness and lack of divisiveness these 2 gentlemen use in this conversation. I hope and pray for unity and truth in all conversations about our Lord Jesus.

[@truthseeker5698]

the god of calvinism is not the God of the Bible.

[@kreendurron]

@@truthseeker5698 sheesh

[@dakotad.8609]

I recommend a channel called Beyond the fundamentals. All of these arguments are clearly debunked, and the Scriptures are shown in their proper context to reveal that these Calvinist arguments are mere eisegesis.

[@dakotad.8609]

The issue with Calvinists is they are allergic to context and cannot continue reading when they get to their favorite verses such as those. Later on in John Jesus says he will draw ALL to himself which completely debunks the idea of Jesus choosing some and not others.

[@kylebailey4574]

@@dakotad.8609 Can you link to where the scriptures (not cavinistic ideas, but actual scriptures) are debunked in your channel you like? I'm continually fascinated by how people who disagree with Calvinism (which I don't claim, btw) will blatantly call quoted scripture calvinism. How about for yourself? How do you digest what Jesus said?

[@rk5782]

To me, God’s Sovereignty is comforting and encouraging.

[@Onthewayover]

Thanks for giving a balanced, respectful critique of Calvinism! Sovereignty is a keyword for Calvinists, but other concepts support their interpretation of it: God is unchangeable, God cannot suffer, God cannot be contradicted, and God owes nothing to anyone. I think a strong argument must address these concepts, too, or it won't truly empathize with Calvinists' image of a transcendent God.

[@shamezf]

His whole argument boils down to not liking determinism without even touching on how compatibilist think it works.. the mechanisms of deficient and efficient causality. For some reason lots of non calvinisnt don't know anything about this or just fail to mention it idk but it would be an entirely different convo if this was brought up

[@user-qf9dh8cj7m]

Calvinism is false doctrine. Deuteronomy 30:15 in the Bible, which reads, “And if it seems evil to you to serve the Lord, CHOOSE FOR YOURSELVES this day whom you will serve, whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the River, OR the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you dwell”. The verse continues, “But as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord”.  GOD gave us a FREE WILL because he told US to CHOOSE. You can't make a CHOICE unless your WILL is FREE 19:17

[@shamezf]

@user-qf9dh8cj7m I never denied free will or ability to choose I just think these decisions are always the same outcome.

[@ironmatto3]

Calvinism is blatantly wrong, there is no way to justify such blasphemy.

[@artemiotorres92]

It makes God not a fair judge and a tyrant which is blasphemy I never believed in calvinist I don't follow a murderer

[@HonrbleMention]

It's all about you. You believe the Bible is basically written by God. You believe God is sovereign, not man. You believe God would be just if you, me, and all of humanity were not given salvation because we are wicked evil creatures, right? So, John Calvin agreed.

[@HonrbleMention]

You're focusing on yourself. Synergism vs. Monergism. St. Augustine interpretation or Pelagius' interpretation. That's where all theological doctrine and philosophical ideologies stem. What do you believe? That you're not dead in sins and trespasses and at enmity with God? That somehow you, in and of yourself is able to make yourself alive? You're following the traditions of men. Self-determination salvationalist.

[@thescenictroute]

Braxton is very smart, but the the entire time he was begging the question. He never once gave a reason for why compatibilism is false. He assumed it was false the entire time. His reasoning was essentially, "Compatibilism is false because if we are determined we do not have free will." That is not an argument against compatibilism. It is only a definition of incompatibilism.

[@stevenking6129]

I became a Christian in my mid 20s with my wife and very shortly after we found ourselves as fill fledged hyper-Calvanists. 30 plus years later we are still digging out from that. I loved the intellectual arguments they made but oh dear lord did it "F" us up.

[@georgemoncayo8313]

Everything that happens in history has been decreed/Predestined before the world was created see Eph 1:11, Proverbs 16:33 and Amos 3:6. And yes even when terrible things happen, I know it's hard for some people to accept but look what happened when David sinned against God and one of Davids punishments was that God told him that he was going to use Davids own son to shame his Father by Absalom Absalom doing something immoral to his Fathers concubines in front of all of Israel, see 2 Samuel 12:11-12 God said "Thus says the Lord, ‘Behold, I will raise up evil against you from your own household; I will even take your wives before your eyes and give them to your companion, and he will lie with your wives in broad daylight. Indeed you did it secretly, but I will do this thing before all Israel, and under the sun." Notice how God said "I WILL DO THIS THING."That was fulfilled in 2 Samuel 16:21-22. Jesus did not die for every single person ever and Jesus didn't die to make people savable. He died to save his elect. In John 17:9 Jesus said that he does not pray for the world. The word world is used in different contexts, in that context he's talking about the non elect. In John 3:16 world means that he purchased people from every tribe, tongue and nation Rev 5:9 and for the children of God scattered abroad John 11:52. Some have been "long beforehand marked out for condemnation" Jude 4 and "appointed to doom." 1 Peter 2:8. About Pharaoh God said “For this VERY PURPOSE I raised you up, to demonstrate My power in you, and that My name might be proclaimed throughout the whole earth.” So then He has mercy on whom He desires, and He hardens whom He desires." Rom 9:17-18. Jesus said "I praise You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and intelligent and have revealed them to infants. Yes, Father, for this way was well-pleasing in Your sight. All things have been handed over to Me by My Father; and no one knows the Son except the Father; nor does anyone know the Father except the Son, and anyone to whom the Son wills to reveal Him." Matthew 11:25-27. So, 2 Pet 3:9 the "not willing that any should perish" if you read that letter in context, 2 Pet 1:1 says "To those who have received a faith of the same kind as ours." As far as salvation for all men verses, Paul was refuting the false notion of his time that God was only desiring to save just the Jews and 1 Tim 2:2 says to pray "for kings and all who are in authority" because as humans WE DON'T KNOW WHO THE ELECT ARE SO WE PRAY FOR EVERYONE! That's what it means in verse 4 by saying "all men." Amos 3:2 God said "of all the nations of the earth I have only known you." For centuries God passed over the majority of humankind because this verse isn't about knowledge it's about relationship. And it isn't because God foresaw Israel was more righteous then the other nations because sometimes Israel was more sinful then the pagan nations see 2 Kings 21:9. Only those who were predestined to be saved will be see Acts 13:48, Ephesians 1:4-5, Eph 1:11, Romans 9:11-23, John 6:37. 1 Samuel 3:14 God said “Therefore I have sworn to the house of Eli that the iniquity of Eli’s house shall not be atoned for by sacrifice or offering forever.” That's Limited atonement.

[@Joshua-of9vq]

🤔

[@way2tehdawn]

How did it “F” you up? If you don’t mind just stick to how it affected… 1, Prayer 2, Worship 3, Giving 4, Fasting 5, Serving

[@joecheffo5942]

I am totally guessing here but I think he means they were constantly worried about whether God chose them and felt like ants and God had a magnifying glass. Scared with no control, no real purpose. For example in normal life, a child can do the dishes and he might get a compliment or praise. Human behavior is usually connected that way. At work, at school. It gives you some sense of direction. I am not a big believer in free will from a science perspective, but a religion that says it doesn't matter what you do, that seems strange and depressing. Jews and Catholics and Muslims have rituals that give their life order and meaning. Maybe there is no free will in praying, but it feels good, and doesn't it speak with God? Or connect? Apparently you can do all the five things you mentioned and not be one of the elect. So maybe that's what he is getting at. @@way2tehdawn

[@Gablesman888]

And so now you are a misspeller of words? And you have learned to express crudeness when describing your religious experiences? Goody for you.

[@Henry._Jones]

As a Calvinist, I appreciate the charitable approach and the overall congenial vibe from Hunter. I would expect no less of him, but still, that's worth pointing out . . . Cheers.

[@The_Scouts_Code]

right, but after hearing him you shouldn't be a Calvinist anymore because he's not just charitable, but correct. "Braxton is charitable" is just your way of saying he's wrong without having to actually say it.

[@Henry._Jones]

@@The_Scouts_Code No to both. You have no reason to assume I'm afraid to say he's wrong. First, by stating I'm a calvinist, it necessarily follows that I dissent from his position - so nothing's being avoided there - that's just silly. Rather, you have concluded that I must be giving him some sort of backhanded compliment b/c evidently you have trouble believing a substantive opponent on this point of theology would be genuinely appreciative of his charity. But that is of course, a wrong assumption.

[@Mr.C-Mister]

Thank you for taking the time to listen too both sides. I've listened to calvinist arguments and almost became a roughly a 2 point calvinist till I listened too Dr. Norman Giesler speak on why he's not a calvinist and gave very correct non bias definition for TULIP with verses then refuted it will verse and logical arguments. I would recommend watch here on KZbin. I'm happy to also watch any recommendations you have as well. I've watched the likes of wretched, apologetics studios, to name a few.

[@darthbigred22]

@@The_Scouts_Code I'm not even a TULIP guy at all but how can you not see that God knows the future in the Bible? That's the whole issue if He says He is All Powerful, All knowing, and Everywhere at once then it will lead to what appears to be predestination from a human perspective. Clearly the Bible is one gigantic "follow God's laws, don't sin, believe, or else" so there is clearly in a free will in that. There is also God hardening Pharaoh's heart heavily implying Pharaoh would have tapped out long before they ever got to the Red Sea or probably even Passover. Judas, as evil as he is, clearly needs to be possessed by Satan to go so far as to betray Jesus. So free will is not untouchable by God or Satan. In fact we pray for God to change people's hearts so are we not asking God to over ride their free will to some extent? In the Last Supper Jesus specifically telegraphs to everyone He knows what Judas does later and heavily implies He knows Judas will be damned for it. Furthermore He then tells Peter that he will deny Jesus 3 times. So God clearly knows the future and He definitely knows what is going to happen to Judas so that looks pretty predestinationy to me especially when He says He knits you in the womb. So He makes you and knows what you will do in the end. Also the whole Flooding the Earth thing means God killed men, women, children, and babies and the way we justify that entire story is God knew they were all evil or would turn out evil. Otherwise if it was all merely free will He just murdered a bunch of kids who never had a shot to decide what they would do. Even if that's merely an allegory then you run into all the family lines having Noah as a direct ancestor to Moses, David, and Jesus along with the issue God making a up a story where He kills people using His knowledge of what they will do. Even if you say original sin gets the kids too then you can still argue that none of them were given the opportunity to change. At the same time God says He is not the author of sin. Fair enough I say but clearly what appears from the human side to be predestination and free will clearly seem to exist. Now I can say arguments for both exist and that's how it is. It's up there with "God exists beyond all time and space and needs no creator", "there's is a Holy Ghost, God the Father, and Jesus and they are 1 God", and no one really needs a scientific of philosophical explanation how God turns a stick into a snake. I don't see the issue here other than you guys wanting to pretend God knows the future but not really or I guess He is sporting about it and only looks in special scenarios like with Judas and Peter? That's why arguing philosophy is a bad stick to try to measure God by in all scenarios. By human laws, even if God does not commit murder but He knows someone is about to and He doesn't stop it, He is guilty in our court systems. See the issue with philosophy? Remember people have used philosophy to justify atheism and transgenderism as well. If I can't stick Him in a test tube why is do I expect Him to fit every philosophical world view? Certainly won't with Nietzsche, Engels, Marx, etc.

[@Henry._Jones]

@@Mr.C-Mister Is there a particular Geisler lecture you mean? I'll give it a listen. Thanks.

[@kliniac3564]

😂 Paul anticipated these objections two thousand years ago. Romans 9:18 Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden. 19 One of you will say to me: “Then why does God still blame us? For who is able to resist his will?” 20 But who are you, a human being, to talk back to God? “Shall what is formed say to the one who formed it, ‘Why did you make me like this?’”

[@louisekord9790]

John Calvin didn't know the difference between when God is talking about Israel and us

[@kliniac3564]

@@louisekord9790 Romans 9:23-24 "23 What if he did this to make the riches of his glory known to the objects of his mercy, whom he prepared in advance for glory- 24 even **us**, whom he also called, not only from the Jews but **also from the Gentiles**?"

[@user-rj8fv6fl9e]

Explain this… Jesus died for ALL. 2 Peter 2:1, which says, “But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord WHO BOUGHT THEM, and bring on themselves swift destruction

[@kliniac3564]

​@@user-rj8fv6fl9e Let me answer a question with a question. Were the sins of those who reject Christ atoned for and wiped away? If you say yes, you hold to universalism. If you say no, then you agree with reformed theology that the atonement is limited. Couple other thoughts. Who is the "them" in the Lord who bought THEM"? You assume it's the false prophets. But it could just as easily be referring to the believers who the false prophets are trying to deceive. So, there were false prophets among THE PEOPLE who deny the Lord who bought THE PEOPLE. That is a perfectly valid interpretation. So, this verse does not as clearly say that Jesus "bought" unbelievers as you might think. But even if it does refer to the false prophets, this also doesn't show universal atonement. Jesus "bought" the visible church as the Lord of the church. But not all of the visible church are truly believers who inwardly receive Christ's work. Just like those described in Hebrews 6 are "partakers of the Holy Spirit" in the sense of their participation in the visible church, although they never actually received the Spirit in a saving way. What will Jesus say to those false prophets Peter spoke about in 2 Pet 2:2? Will he say, "I knew you, but then you fell away and I stopped knowing you"? No. "On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ 23 And then will I declare to them, ‘I NEVER knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’" Matthew 7:22-23 So, the only people for whom Jesus' atoning death actually applies are the elect, and they never fall away. Make sense?

[@jonanthony6179]

Calvinism is Biblical Christianity

[@wakman1230]

I don't see why any Christian would be bothered that everything is determined by a just and righteous God. It should be a source of joy and comfort.

[@Greyz174]

"Your intuitions do not jive with this nature of God" Since when in the world has this ever been accepted as a response from an atheist or a gay/progressive Christian or literally anyone of any other religion? The response has always been that you're fallen and that your intutitions aren't supposed to dictate how the Lord of the universe works.

[@johnking6308]

Calvinism teaches salvation by election rather than salvation by faith in Christ.

[@troyisakson1060]

?? No it doesn't.

[@johnking6308]

I'm afraid it does. Calvinism teaches the elect were chosen for salvation before the foundation of the earth. That was before the incarnation, life, death and resurrection of Jesus. Because God is sovereign, there is no way the elect would not have salvation already conferred with no need of a Savior. Yet the Bible teaches otherwise. We are saved through faith in the Lord Jesus. People are either saved or lost against their will, denying that salvation is an offer to be accepted or rejected. Calvinism also teaches all choices, including my sins were ordained by God. But the Bible teaches God hates sin and wants all to choose repentance. Calvinism is a twisted maze of contradictions amounting to heresy.

[@troyisakson1060]

@johnking6308 The elect WERE chosen. This is literally spoken of many times explicitly in Scripture. The elect are chosen because God knows how everything pans out. We are trying to understand what we cannot fully understand. It's difficult to fully grasp what it would be like to know the future. God does though. Therefore, of course He knows who will ultimately be saved. Therefore, He elected those people to be saved. It's really that simple. It's not heresy to state exactly what the Bible says. We are CHOSEN and ELECTED. What else do those verses mean?

[@orangepeel3465]

IT IS VERY CLEAR WHAT HE HAS BEEN SAYING. HIS DELIVERY IS VERY CLEAR!! Excellent

[@ryanshaun9600]

Calvinism, which I tried for a year, made me hostile towards other Christian denominations and lose so much respect from people who used to respect me.

[@corbinclarke9795]

“as it is written, “There is none righteous, not even one; There is none who understands, There is none who seeks for God; All have turned aside, together they have become useless; There is none who does good, There is not even one.”” ‭‭Romans‬ ‭3:10-12‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬ Soli Deo Gloria!

[@UniteAgainstEvil]

Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel? Therefore, thou son of man, say unto the children of thy people, The righteousness of the righteous shall not deliver him in the day of his transgression: as for the wickedness of the wicked, he shall not fall thereby in the day that he turneth from his wickedness; neither shall the righteous be able to live for his righteousness in the day that he sinneth. Ezekiel 33:11‭-‬12 KJV

[@michaeltorah4002]

@@UniteAgainstEvil God has no pleasure in the death of the wicked. It doesn't mean he will choose to save every wicked man. It simply states He doesn't take pleasure. A mans heart is deceitful above All things. Who can know it??

[@aaronleonard5629]

@@michaeltorah4002 why would he be telling them to turn from their sins if they were incapable of doing so or it was up to Him if they were able to turn or not?

[@michaeltorah4002]

@@aaronleonard5629 God COMMANDS us to repent even though we don't have the desire or the ability to. Same with the commands of OT. The Jews were required to keep All the commandments. Yet, Paul says they couldn't, not one person was able to keep the law. That didn't excuse them from their responsibility. Same way today, we are bound in sin and can't repent on our own, Yet we are held responsible

[@aaronleonard5629]

@@michaeltorah4002 I agree we are incapable of keeping the law but I don’t Agree with you that we are incapable of choosing God of our own free will. God desires that all to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

[@swu11]

In 20 years after being baptized at a local church, I never paid attention to nor understood Calvinism vs Arminianism. My biggest shock after reading who John Calvin is and what he has done strikes me, questioning why so many Christians are promoting his philosophy. He had done so many evils against Jesus's teachings, love your enemy, the kingdom isn't in this world. Are Calvinists consistent with what they believe when spreading the Gospel? Have you heard someone ask "if you would accept Jesus who maybe dies for you, BUT, sorry it depends on whether you are elected in order to be saved?" The fact that one reads 2 Peter 2 and started thinking how to twist God's word is exactly what the snake said to Eve: did God really say that you will die? To whoever disagreed with Calvin, he treated those like the Pharisees to Jesus.

[@LAStreetPreacher]

Many so called Calvinists are in fact hyper-Calvinists and they are not very evangelistic. This is wrong because while God has chosen certain people for salvation from the foundation of the world as scripture teaches, the Bible also teaches we are to speak the truth in love and proclaim the gospel to men who are lost. Election is God's business. Man's duty is to repent

[@user-rj8fv6fl9e]

Jesus died for ALL. 2 Peter 2:1 says, “But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord WHO BOUGHT THEM, and bring on themselves swift destruction

[@dited358]

(All) have come short to the glory of God, you aren't chosen, you repent and freely accept the gift given with humility. Calvanism allows one to boast that they "deserve" God's glory over those filthy sinners, yet the Bible says no one can boast, we are all but beggars.

[@user-rj8fv6fl9e]

Explain this… Jesus died for ALL. 2 Peter 2:1, which says, “But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord WHO BOUGHT THEM, and bring on themselves swift destruction

[@daviddeppisch4948]

AS a Reformed pastor (Baptist) and understanding the Biblical principles of Calvinism I understand why so many reject the choice-argument because of "free will". I have many friends who are of all different denominations and we all have certain doctrines in which we disagree. I guess I am less concerned with "how" some think they "chose Jesus" or were "chosen" but more concerned with how they are living for Christ.

[@chironow3446]

I was saved 23 years ago. Last church taught Calvinism and TULIP. I realized that if calvinists are right, why read the Bible and go to church. I’m already predestined to be saved. Done with church. The freedom I have!

[@sonoftheking6520]

No such thing as a reformed “Baptist” you should drop the name. Just be reformed.

[@a-sheepof-christ9027]

@@chironow3446 Faith is by hearing of the word. The Church suceeded in planting that seed in you. Another watered. But God made it grow. Despite calvinism being true, the stance should be one of submission to God despite ultimate Salvation. Deteminism does not cancel out liability for those OUTSIDE of faith: from romans 9: "One of you will say to me: “Then why does God still blame us? For who is able to resist his will?” 20 But who are you, a human being, to talk back to God? “Shall what is formed say to the one who formed it, ‘Why did you make me like this?’”21 Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for special purposes and some for common use?" Even Paul despite preaching determinism denies negligence. But he does advocate ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED.

[@broccolisword]

@@chironow3446 Thats not what Calvinism teaches in the slightest

[@steventhury8366]

You are not "Reformed", or a Calvinist.

[@TheRoark]

As a reformed christian I am excited to hear what you think about this. EDIT: I'm curious if Braxton believes in open theism or not. Are humans able to go against the will of God with their wills? Also even though Braxton says he is not a calvinist because of scripture and not because of what he wants to be true, most of his points here are that calvinism makes God seem evil to him and that he intuitively knows it's false. I was hoping for more scriptural proofs against calvinism rather than just assuming a particular model of free will and making a philosophical case that reformed theology is incompatible with it. Can anyone link me to a better non-calvinist soteriology? I really want to get the best the other sides have to offer.

[@vanlalhruaitluangazote739]

I have watched JW vs Craig, JW vs Tim Stratton, and some other Calvinism vs Molinism/Arminianism debates, i haven't found any convincing biblical argument against Calvinism!

[@tylerd4000]

Braxton leans towards molinism but doesn’t feel as if it’s necessary to give an answer to Calvinist proof texts. I’d say check out molinism and what Braxton, Tim Stratton, Ronnie Rogers, and William lane Craig have to say about it. For non molinists check out leighton flower, the provisionist perspective, and Steve Gregg. But of course I can’t speak on Braxton behalf, just what I’ve heard/understood him to hold to

[@TheRoark]

@@tylerd4000 Thanks for the reply! I actually used to be a molinist because of William Lane Craig but after I went back and read Romans I thought it was a bit of a cope. Which sucks cause I would much rather be associated with WLC than James White haha. I haven't looked too deeply into provisionist but it seemed a bit too close to pelagianism for my tastes when I did look into it

[@AChippendale]

Dr Leighton Flowers makes a great case for the Provisionism.... After listening to him for a few hours I left Calvinism (which I hadn't really thought through, just more accepted)

[@SalvusGratiumFidem]

Of course people are able to go against God's will Peter says it is God's will for ALL to come to repentance and trust in God. We all know that's not what happens. There are hundreds of verses showing people going against the will of God.

[@seafbyrd]

Jeremiah 17:9, "the heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it" and here you two guys are trying to explain things.

[@Solideogloria00]

Best argument against Calvinism, “God has determined that I reject Calvinism for being anti biblical, ahistorical and illogical”.

[@markmartinloyola]

I really appreciate the tone and demeanor of your closing comments John. That is very refreshing.

[@TheChurchSplit]

As I always say, "Compatiblism is just determinism with lip stick."

[@TheTruthseeker1231]

LOL! Nice.

[@YuGiOhDuelChannel]

So is Molinism.

[@TheChurchSplit]

@@YuGiOhDuelChannel no not really. Molinism, Dynamic Omniscience, and Open Theism all dodge determinism.

[@YuGiOhDuelChannel]

@@TheChurchSplit Open Themism does. But Molinism is still God determining all that happens. If God wants to slap my neighbor then he just puts me in a situation in which I would never do otherwise, sounds like the definition of determinism with lipstick

[@TheChurchSplit]

@@YuGiOhDuelChannel no not quite how that works. God doesn’t control the free creature’s choices on Molinism.

[@giovannironchi5332]

Btw, Calvinism is true.

[@johnsnow1139]

Where is the Epistle of Calvin, I can’t seem to find it?

[@AlanKrushel]

We are not sinners because we sin , We Sin because we are sinners !

[@JH-jh8ms]

Are you going to bring on James White ever? How about Michael Preciado?

[@Henry._Jones]

It's Doug Wilson that Cameron **really** needs to bring on. That's the real elephant in the room in terms of potential or heretofore uninvited guests.

[@user-qf9dh8cj7m]

They are false teachers.Calvinism is false doctrine. Deuteronomy 30:15 in the Bible, which reads, “And if it seems evil to you to serve the Lord, CHOOSE FOR YOURSELVES this day whom you will serve, whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the River, OR the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you dwell”. The verse continues, “But as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord”.  GOD gave us a FREE WILL because he told US to CHOOSE. You can't make a CHOICE unless your WILL is FREE 19:17

[@ryanbrawner4005]

It is predestanation of salvation, not each action. Read Romans 9:14-23 that is the best argument for predestination. Also go back and read Rom 8. Read carefully.we are responsible for our choices, God is responsible for our salvation. The Bible uses the word predestination and the word has a definition.

[@tkhawkeye]

I REALLY hate the continuous insistence of clergy and theologians, especially on the conservative side, to use the comment of "for those of us with a high view of scripture." This is a dirty tactic to basically say, "I'm right because I respect scripture and if you disagree with me, you must have a low view of scripture and that means you're wrong, so I don't have to engage you with respect." It's dismissive of any opposition to your views. I don't even disagree with what's being said in the video, but I almost automatically stop listening when somebody making an argument is so blasé about anybody that might have the audacity to disagree with them.

[@keith3362]

This is so true, I’ve heard many Calvinists says ‘you don’t have a high enough view of God’, when in reality it’s them that don’t have a high enough view of God, thinking he has to supremely micro manage people and control every single act ever done. His will WILL be done in spite of any of man’s choices.

[@taipeipersonality]

I’m not sure how this puts God in a better light, though. Your position is that, as Sovereign, God can step in and overcome unbelief (17:00), but sometimes he just chooses not to. How is that better (or, more importantly, more biblical)? I’d also appreciate some reflection on instances where Jesus thanks God for withholding understanding from some and granting it to others.