The best Canon rangefinder camera? Oskar Barnack vs the world part 7 - The Japanese (part 1)

[@TonyGunslinger]

A great video on the Canon series, I like how you go into great details showing how each models differ, especially when it comes showing the rangefinder view. It's not often for audiences get to see that. I like my L1, and chose that after trying out the P and VI models, mainly because its rangefinder patch is gold-colored patch and makes it easier to see and apparently is supposed to have less issues than the silver on the other models. MY L1's rangefinder is 100% clean, and I like it much better than the P/VI even though the L1 doesn't have framelines. Those later models project their framelines & patch similar to Nikon S series by reflecting them on one-way mirrors. The issue you raised is that it needs multiple layers of mirrors -- one layer to project the frameline, and another to project the patch. So the blurry circles is due to one has layer having a hole cut out and the layer is 'filling' that hole. Anyways, I think the real unique strength of the Canon V and VI series is their parallax-corrected external viewfinders, combine with switchable magnification RF, it gives you multiple ways to shoot. I also have a Leica Barnack and from my experience, the weight difference didn't matter much in practice for me. I think the L1's wider body distributes its total weight a bit better when using a strap, and it handles heavier / larger lenses better due to their lugs placed frontwards more. But then again, I use the Barnack specifically when I want to go light, whereas I use the L1 for telephoto lenses.

[@extremebanding2748]

Yes I was looking around for viewfinder comparisons specifically when I was searching for a rangefinder camera, and didn't find much, so I'm glad you appreciate it! And thanks for the information regarding the rangefinder design, very interesting. I really like all of these Canon rangefinders, and, as you say, if you want a rangefinder camera that can do both wide and tele lenses, the Canons with the auto parallax pin and rotating finders are very hard to beat.

[@northof-62]

Thanks for a nice presentation. I came across a Canon P with the 0.95 50mm lens for really cheap back in 1974, and picked it up. But compared to my almost new Nikon SLR gear neither lens nor camera impressed me much, so I sold both some time later. These days I see that lens sell for crazy prices. Must be a collector's item I guess. It was very soft and prone to flare. Unlike most of Canon's other lenses. Even the compact QL 17 with its 40mm f1.7 lens beats that one. Cheers from your neighbour country to the west. (Love the Niemi books, btw.) . . Now I own an M4-P, a Zeiss Ikon and a Fujica GM670. But I haven't got the rangefinder feel, Leica or other, and although the GM670 is awesome. I will always be an SLR guy, and I fully understand the SLR revolution in 35mm photography, that left Leica in the dust back then in professional & press photography. Like digital has done now for film. But of course, we are curious about the old stuff and how it worked.

[@winedemonium]

I watched this last night and came back to comment. Thank goodness for cold bleak Swedish winters! What a good use of time! I benefitted a lot from your in depth commentary on the Canon rangefinder system. It's a rare find on KZbin, as most videos are superficial "hands on with..." type ones, and you quickly realise you have more experience than the presenter. Not so this one, wow! I love that you showed us through the viewfinder and the rangefinder in operation for each camera, compared them physically side by side, and gave us the more intelligent answer to "which one is best?" = i.e. it depends on your use case and priorities. I would LOVE to see your take on the Nikon rangefinder system. Everyone seems to say SP, but for glasses wearers like me there are arguments for the S2, S3, S4. Right, now to binge watch the rest of your series...

[@extremebanding2748]

Thanks, glad you liked it! Regarding the Nikons, this series of course has a big Contax-shaped hole in it, which would include Contax/Kiev/Nikon. The Nikons are a bit expensive though, hard to find below 1000€, especially since I don't have any lenses that fit currently. It is summer now however, but we will see what happens the coming winter...

[@mnoliberal7335]

I recently bought a used Barnack Leica copy made in Japan around 1960. It came with some Canon and a Nikon lens. I sure like the camera and my interest in the type is awakened. Perhaps I'll buy a Canon body since the lenses will fit and I can have the sturdy metal shutter.

[@linjicakonikon7666]

I love the Canon VT Deluxe so much I've acquired five of them with Canon and Voightlander ltm lenses. For me, the perfect camera.

[@GraemeSimpsonPhotography]

Wonderful video. I have the Canon IVSB and the Canon 7. The IVSB is a lovely camera but as a glasses wearer the viewfinder hole is just so small it's hard to use but do still enjoy using it

[@extremebanding2748]

Thanks, glad you liked it!

[@thomasthiele3948]

Hello, when I use the older Canon bottom loading cameras I use the finder only for measuring the distance, most the time I use an auxiliary viewfinder, which is more practical for viewfinding. They where produced in at least two different series , earlier chrome and later black, and most the time in several versions , without any control, with manual distance selection and with the pin for parallax correction and adaptor to combine them with the "wrong" camera model. The finders are available for 19, 25, 28, 35, 50, 85, 100 and 135 mm focal lenght, plus zoom versions and wide angle adaptor.

[@mvonwalter6927]

I have had Leica iii, Leica M4 and a Canon VL3. The Canon rangefinders are really hard to be beat for the price. They aren't difficult to service either. You really do have to be mindful of the parallax though. It has messed up some of my favorite photos. Leica M4 on up load pretty fast, even better than swing back, but the spool loading M2 and M3 are not and the iii is very fussy to get right. Thanks for the summary. Always love to hear shutter sounds side by side too.

[@extremebanding2748]

Yes the Canons feel like they are priced a bit low on the used market, when thinking about how much camera you get for the money, with all their features, along with the 1950's build quality. Glad you appreciated the shutter sound comparison! It is a bit difficult to record shutter sound though, I noticed, as they do sound a little different when having the mic in front, as I did in the video, compared to when you look through the viewfinder and fire the shutter. When doing the test I thought the IVSB2 was more quiet than the rest, from where I sat, except for the M2 which was clearly quieter than the IVSB2, bigger difference than in the video. But they sound about right, at least.

[@mvonwalter6927]

@@extremebanding2748 The M4 I had was very quiet with a low pitch sound. The L3 is certainly louder but a satisfying sound. Compared to a manual Nikon where you get zipping sounds and the mirror flap I prefer the Canon.

[@tonym9635]

Nice video, I think the Canon 7 is the better camera out of all of them, I know it doesn't have the cold shoe, but i can live without that. Thanks for sharing

[@palesmichael]

33:20 is the sound of the slow escapement mechanism (the one responsible for the slower times) as the half wheel that dictates the slow shutter speed goes up and down several times, after it counts down the 1/30 and 1/15th of a sec, until the mechanism fully stops. It does this only on the faster slow speeds.

[@extremebanding2748]

Great! Thanks for the info!

[@stevecoffey5290]

Iv'e wanted a canon 6l or p for a while but I think I'll stick with my leica III for now. The tradeoffs for size aren't worth it for me. That black ii is very cool. Looking forward to more

[@DylanHeywood10]

Definitely try and use one for a bit - they are an amazing user experience. Certainly easy to tell that they're much more modern than Leica iii.

[@gatsbye53]

Fabulous video, informative and well made. Bravo!

[@extremebanding2748]

Thanks, glad you liked it!

[@melcu1990]

i find leicas easier to load than the swinging slr style doors but thats just me

[@paultaylorphotography9499]

I have been interested in the canon P and the 7 for some time but the auction prices were getting too high so I resisted. This last week I picked up an L3 in good condition I love the look and feel of the L3 I’ll be shooting a roll tomorrow. Great video cheers

[@extremebanding2748]

Yes I saw your video about the L3 today, looks great! And nice channel, you've got!

[@paultaylorphotography9499]

@@extremebanding2748 cheers for watching mate it is an awesome camera two cracking lenses I have to load more film this week I want to give the Elmar a good run. I saw another canon 7 locally over double price of the L3. Lovely camera tho

[@extremebanding2748]

@@paultaylorphotography9499 Yes, both those lenses are really good. If you don't need that extra speed/bokeh the elmar is hard to beat. Here I think the L3, if I would ever see one, would be double the price of the Canon 7, as the 7 is much more common. Those cameras go for surprisingly little money sometimes. Personally I prefer the elegance of the L1/L2/L3, but then again, I almost always prefer the smaller camera...

[@paultaylorphotography9499]

@@extremebanding2748 that’s surprising down here the 7 and P always attract higher price. Saying that I’ve only seen a few L series so glad I went for this one love the styling size and yeah with the elmar it’s a tiny powerhouse 📷 limitation of shutter speed no self timer etc that’s ok for what I aim to shoot with the camera I’m a bit gear mad so one day I’ll have a 7 or a p or both haha it never ends til My time ends

[@extremebanding2748]

@@paultaylorphotography9499 Haha, I know the feeling, looking forward to the upcoming reviews then!

[@KhunTui-jl5nj]

Hello, I ask for your advice. Now I'm interested in VL , VI-L , P . Which one do you think is the most complete? (I secretly like the VL more because it doesn't have the word Canon on the front, which is like the M2 and M3 ). Which do you think has the least disadvantages? The best material. thank you for the advice

[@extremebanding2748]

Well, you have my views on the pros and cons of the different models in the video, but apart from that, as it is most common, it is generally easiest to find a Canon P in good condition for a good price, but of the cameras you mention are very well built and nice cameras. As they are all quite old, I think the best camera would be the one that is in best condition, especially concerning the viewfinder (the VL seems to be one of the most problematic in that regard, but you still might find one with a clear finder).

[@KhunTui-jl5nj]

@@extremebanding2748 Thank you for your comment. If you have anything else to recommend, please advise me.

[@KhunTui-jl5nj]

How about VI-L (6) What do you think VS P , please advise me.

[@extremebanding2748]

@@KhunTui-jl5nj The VI-L is more useable with 35mm lenses, but the finder seems to suffer more from ageing, and usually it costs a bit more. If you would find a VI-L with a finder in super condition, I would say it would be preferrable to the Canon P, but if you do not use 35mm lenses, the Canon P is basically just as good.

[@KhunTui-jl5nj]

@@extremebanding2748 thank you for the advice. From what I've researched, VL / VI both have a problem where the viewfinder isn't sharp and hard to see. .which matches what you said. It makes me worried about using VI or VL. I'd like to ask more. If I see a VI with a bright viewfinder? But in the future it will get worse. And you can see it, right?

[@philwoodall9023]

Hi, great series of videos. I have a VI-L and the rangefinder patch is a blue blob. I assumed it was done by someone to improve contrast but when I stripped it down it seems to be part of the prism unit. Are yours like this? I have seen others like this but I have never found it mentioned. As you have two I’m hoping you may know more. Thanks for any help.

[@extremebanding2748]

Hi, thanks! No, the patch on my VI-L's is pretty neutral in color. Maybe done afterwards then, because it could actually use a bit more contrast, or Canon changed it along the the way?

[@alberttong5281]

Your Leica IIf has what looks like a hot shoe, which is really intriguing. Is it functional and can you tell us more about it?

[@extremebanding2748]

Yes, you are right about that! As I never use a flash on these cameras I do not know if it is working, and as many of these videos were recorded some time ago, I am afraid I no longer own this camera, so I can't test it, which is quite unfortunate as that actually would have been quite interesting.

[@kay139o]

Hey, thank you for this video. Have had to clean any fungus from the rangefinder/viewfinder area before? If so, what did you use?

[@extremebanding2748]

When cleaning out fungus I usually use hydrogen peroxide mixed with ammonia, but that said, when cleaning a rangefinder you do have to be a bit careful, not touch the half silvered mirrors and so on. I always start with a cloth, then lens cleaning fluid and see what difference that makes. There are usually good tutorials on youtube and forums for specific cameras, and what to watch out for

[@kay139o]

@@extremebanding2748 Thanks for your advice

[@Rangefinder48]

Hi! I just picked up a Canon P and was wondering about using a collapsible lens. In the video you used the Elmar on the P. Does the lens hit the internals when collapsed? Was thinking of picking up a Canon Serenar 50mm f1.9 or f3.5 if there’s no problem. Thanks!

[@extremebanding2748]

You can sometimes feel the Elmar touching the baffles (I think that is the correct word) a bit when collapsing it, but other than that it works just fine

[@Wasp9513]

These ones or a Bessa R ltm?

[@extremebanding2748]

The Bessa is a more modern camera with light meter built in, a 0.7x finder with parallax corrected frame lines and 1/2000th of a second top speed. But it has a pretty short effective base, not the same level of build quality and has problems with some lenses that protrude deep into the mount, like the collapsible Elmar. It really depends on personal preference, and what you can find at a decent price

[@paxYmo]

Canon 7 more affordable . I also owneda canon 4 with trigger wind