The Best Fly Fishing Indicator for Trout: Howard Croston's Drop Back Bung.

[@howardcrostonflyfisher9227]

Some interesting comments as usual . I’ve always been of the opinion that “fly” fishing can be what ever you want to make of it , provided you break no rules. it’s a very broad church . It’s also interesting that when I’ve challenged people to define “fly fishing” many of them struggle to without allowing opinion to cloud the description. “Indicator” is a fly anglers sanitised term for “float“ (although some indicator anglers struggle with that concept),although it’s not a favourite method of mine personally, I’ve enjoyed dabbling in it and perfecting it for people who often fish little else and rely on it to either keep fishing / get started in fly fishing or just because they enjoy it . Keep in mind there’s really no “unsporting methods” , only “unsportsmanlike anglers” .

[@FullingMillTV]

Very well said, Howard!

[@BillSaltbush]

That's not bad for a bloke with an accent . . . not bad at all. Oh! Damn! That was very unsportsmanlike on my part. Many apologies. 😁😇😉

[@rossdavidson9776]

I like many like bung fishing with indicator and it seems very very popular way of fishing. I use the round indicators with the cocktail stick to hold in place. Which indicators do you think are the best 1s for using?

[@ryantherock7664]

Howard still the best rod designer…love Hardy rods

[@pecosnick45]

Its a bobber bro. Not a float.

[@robgrubb420]

Howard is dropping major value on this channel. thumbs way up.

[@robertflaherty6818]

Top class product, it is so effective, picks up sensitive takes especially when the fish picks up the fly and the bung lifts upwards 👍 it puts plenty of fish in the net , my new favourite bung 💯%

[@brianr9529]

A lot of unhappy people here, I have bungs and have only been fly fishing a few years, so really have lots to learn, I've seen the bung used and it's absolutely deadly. Tried it myself but found it difficult finding the right depth and just to concentrate but I will try it again. Very handy for people with limited mobility and can't cast a lot etc. Fish how you want and just enjoy yourself.

[@FullingMillTV]

Well said!

[@brianr9529]

@@FullingMillTV thanks.

[@Stannystansfield]

Absolute game changer 😀

[@truthhurts6958]

Looks a cracking bung , defo be giving it a try . On its day the bung is unbeatable

[@FullingMillTV]

It sure is! Enjoy.

[@jonmilling703]

Croston is on a different level when it comes to fly fishing. People will inevitably scoff at this method, but look at the thought that’s went into it. If in any doubt look at Howard’s other contributions on KZbin for rivers and stillwaters. Hugely technical but make massive sense.

[@FullingMillTV]

Howard is absolutely brilliant!

[@parfield5182]

It will suit the stocky bashing brethren very well indeed. There's a lot of thought gone into it, but it is not quite cricket.

[@howardcrostonflyfisher9227]

As you mentioned it’s fairly well aimed at those that like to fish stocked lakes although it does work well fishing imitative patterns for wild fish as well . The grey area to what actually constitutes “Cricket” is the tricky bit because it comes down to opinion. a lot of what I see on small stocked still waters is not for me personally, but it’s just my opinion ultimately. I know from a lot of personal messages that it’s really helped and encouraged a lot of new or struggling anglers catch a few and ultimately that’s good for the sport .

[@johnread2250]

You know it really pisses me off when small stillwater fishing is referred to as "stockie bashing", usually by some dick that thinks he a river god. I am lucky enough to enjoy both stillwater and rivers. I run a small stillwater and believe me the fising can be a challenge at times. Yes it can also be too easy and seeing guys book 30+ fish is not an indicator of angling skill. What it is is a great environment to learn,enjoy company etc before advancing to rivers. There are more than a few out there paying alot of money to be in the "all the gear ,no idea club" who could benefit from step back to stillwater. As regards floats,bungs ,fabs etc I say OK if you want and it's within the rules but me I try to catch with something made of fur and feather , maybe I don't catch as many as the shiny lure guys but that's me, it's what I take from fy fishing so don't denigrate that which you don't do.

[@parfield5182]

You have perhaps seen an ironic message from one professional to another, put two and two together and made five. I am perfectly aware how difficult small waters can be, I carry more patterns and techniques than I do rivers when teaching. When I comment on a post by Howard, and a handful of others, it is often a way of saying “hi” and recognising the work that goes into making a quality show and tell video, and as a way of showing a bit of support. Yes, irony does not transfer to the written word well, ironic I should be called a dick for doing so. Maybe you are just having a rough time of it on your Stillwater fishery, floods , frost and heatwave , so I will forgive you.

[@johnread2250]

@@parfield5182 Sorry Peter. I got a bit hot under the collar but I Just hate the term stockie basher it just has the ring of us being lesser mortals, hope you see my point. Maybe I shouldn't read the comments early in the morning. I certainly take nothing away from anyone who knows more than I, which is most folk!

[@DirtyMardi]

If possible, I would attach a small swivel to prevent line twist between the indicator and the fly, especially if there’s strong undercurrents. I’ve seen too many bobbers trying to spin.

[@williamgrant6647]

Well described find yout videos interesting 😊

[@jameswilson6717]

We call that a stick float drop back bung/indicator just glorifies it but looks like it will do the job required

[@monkeybrains]

That's not a stick float. It's a waggler. ❤

[@natureman871]

Thank You 👍

[@RoryLynott]

On the drop, on the up bite, easier to cast, easier to set at long range. Looks like a big win to me. There's definitely a time and a place for a bung/float/bobber/indicator.

[@scot1425]

Open to new ideas I bought the gear after there was an article on ‘the drop back bung’ in Trout & Salmon’. It worked. It worked well. However I was not happy using it. In fact I felt a little ashamed. After thinking things through I got rid of all bungs and indicators and felt much happier. I will still use a dry fly to suspend a wee nymph but I see that as ‘fly fishing’ whereas the bungs are float fishing. Illogical I’m sure but a decision I’m happy with. Each to their own.

[@howardcrostonflyfisher9227]

Totally logical if it ensures you enjoy your fishing, ultimately that’s what it’s all about 👍

[@bac1308]

I don't know that I'd get hung up on the naming it's still fly fishing just not "fly fishing", but the sentiment makes sense. You're out there to enjoy fishing a particular technique and this wasn't that technique you enjoyed. It's like only wanting to finesse fish for bass and not wanting to use umbrella rigs. The umbrella will catch you fish but it's not what you're after in an experience. In this case it's just do you want to finesse fish, or super finesse fish.

[@tmcmullan1199]

Great video! Is there any way I could get an explanation on how to fit the rubber stops to the fly line or is there a video on this? I’ve just bought a set

[@raymondadams579]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/l3WwdWBuo66KfLs

[@FullingMillTV]

There is not a video on this yet, but we will add one to our queue!

[@Alex-zs4vb2lt5c]

I get that you would like us to use the flies with the dots on them but they are really hard to buy here. I bought a pack of these bungs ages ago and decided to have another look (our season for the rivers has closed where I live, but lakes are open all year round -- I have to say that I haven't seen anyone use any type of bung here, which I think is because we usually have to cover a lot of water to find the fish so letting the flies sit there in a place where we are allowed to use bait seems silly to most maybe). But I didn't realise there were special flies to go with it when I found this special bung in my travels. So based on my research, the Fulling Mill red dots are generally 3.0mm beads (again, not a common brand in Australia -- we get some but most pre-tied patterns are NZ brands. I am assuming tungsten, so if the yellow dot is half the weight it looks like roughly two 2.5mm beads would be the same as the red dot or in some cases one 2mm plus one 2.5mm bead would be about the same. So given you were saying that we can use our own flies, is what I'm saying good as a rough guide before using the suggested trial and error approach? I have a scale that measures small things, i.e. flies, so if I know that the medium bung holds up one red dot and that is about 0.2g (or about 3 grains) I can prepare some combinations at home that would work and can even take the mass of the entire fly into account... I guess at worst I can test that in the bath!

[@FullingMillTV]

Hey there! The red dot = 3.0mm FM Tactical Drop Bead The yellow dot = 2.5mm FM Tactical drop bead. You can use any weight of fly with these bungs, you just need to test it out first. Tie a very short piece of mono to the ring at the bottom of the indicator , then tie a small loop onto the mono and place in a tall glass of water/fish tank etc. You can then hook your weighted flies you want to try and use with the bung to the loop of mono. If the flies are heavy enough to use with the bung, it will “cock” and go from laying flat on the water’s surface to vertical with the top of the indicator visible above the waters surface. If the flies are too heavy for the bung it will sink it. It also isn’t ideal to use one heavy fly and then one or two much lighter flies with the indicator, this will make it less sensitive to drop back bites.

[@Alex-zs4vb2lt5c]

@FullingMillTV Thanks for this! I'm going to try it out this weekend I think

[@peterfetzer7039]

I’ve been dreaming of a system like this. I’m from the states and have done a bunch of Crappie fishing where I have used the Thill gold medal bobber’s which I can weight perfectly so I can detect up bites. Do you sell these in the states? If so where can I buy them?

[@FullingMillTV]

Not yet, but they will be available at the end of this year in the states!

[@rossco420]

Is this static bung more for competition fishing, you would never use this with the dry fly or lures, it’s getting technical 😂🎣

[@ReelAnglerReviews]

I'd love to try these!

[@FullingMillTV]

Please do!

[@ReelAnglerReviews]

@FullingMillTV I tried to get some but they're sold out and I'm in the US. Hopefully I'll be able to get some soon.

[@FullingMillTV]

@@ReelAnglerReviews They will be available in the US by this winter!

[@ReelAnglerReviews]

​@FullingMillTV still looking out for these, also I love the podcast episode you guys did with Fly Fish Food fly shop. Cheers.

[@edhead5296]

I'll definitely be trying these when stillwater fishing.... but for someone who ties their own flies, it'd be nice to know the optimum weight required for the bungs.

[@Loyalist-ul6qm]

Split shot and a basin of water will sort you out.

[@FullingMillTV]

If you grab a few of ours to get an idea for how it loads, you can then just tie to match those weights and you're off to the races!

[@paulatkinson4812]

The smaller bung cocks at between 0.3 and 0.35 grams. I tie flies at 0.17 grams so I can use two flies with it. Alternatively you can use one red dot fly (which weighs about 0.3 grams) and put a small size 14 buzzer on the dropper. The buzzer won't register if the fish "mouths" the fly but will do if it swims off, so you are still increasing your chance of catching a fish by having an additional fly on the setup.

[@mikewatson264]

Looks very effective. I used to like the Skip's Twist On indicators, but I can't find any to buy now. My main problem is that most of the stillwaters I fish only allow one fly - no droppers, so the thing would'nt cock properly. Any thoughts on/ plans for the balanced flies often seen on vids from the US? I've never seen any here in the UK. Perhaps we call them something different?

[@FullingMillTV]

We offer it in 2 sizes, and the smaller one can be loaded with a single fly! One of the patterns we offer with it "the Wagon Warrior" is similar in concept, though not technically balanced.

[@wohltemper]

A mid to heavy weight perdigón should be enough to set it

[@halfpintawhelks]

The same stillwater "purists" ive encountered that get hot under the collar about others using bungs are often happy to rip back 3" marabou monster blue flash damsels and call them nympths. Using the bungs not compulsory, live & let live

[@piratedredger1857]

Tbh I fish very pressured fish and the blob under the fario bung ,took a few fish and I can fish any fly .looks good though

[@chrismoss9487]

How does it cast??? And you've to buy flies to match the float???

[@FullingMillTV]

It casts super well as it lays flat against the leader when casting. You can tie your own flies, you just need to learn how to weight it properly. Our flies will help get you started with that!

[@robgreen6697]

Can it be fished in a river effectively trotting?

[@FullingMillTV]

There's only one way to find out! Give it a go 😄

[@koshonispell6963]

Will these be available in the states anytime soon?

[@FullingMillTV]

We hope by this winter!

[@syphogenic1743]

If you're that desperate buy yourself some EVA sheets in various colours and thicknesses from Hobby Lobby and some 3M adhesive, glue them together and drill them out using a section or sharpened brass modelling tube or an old radio aerial. You'll get dozens and you'll be able to furnish other desperados with them. You could maybe set up your own dot system too 😂 FFS!

[@Flytieco]

I like it but it should be or there should be a universal version 😉

[@charliesouthworth4200]

So you can’t use your own flies gotta use ones which are certain weights ?

[@FullingMillTV]

You can, you just need to learn how to weight it properly. Our flies will help you get started with that, but you can certainly tie for it!

[@monkeybrains]

Put a size 16 and a couple maggots under it ❤

[@robsmith8024]

Yep, that’s a float alright and flies with shot on top. The guy’s a genius, where does he get his ideas😂

[@syphogenic1743]

Yip, and don't forget to ground bait the swim to draw them in.

[@mattwright2964]

​@@syphogenic1743 which is where this all leads! He is a brilliant angler become lost rationalising his own numbers culture.

[@alexargyros7186]

I know that FIPS rules prohibit strike indicators. However, if you were inclined to use one on a stream, would the Drop Back Bung be your choice?

[@caseybald5482]

Yes you can use it in streams I wouldn’t choose it off the rip for faster water but slower, walking pace or slower it excels in….I’ve been using similar “floats” by Raven for steelhead and lake run browns for years, the in line style indicator blows the traditional round style float away as far as sensitivity and strike accuracy.

[@howardcrostonflyfisher9227]

As per the below comment, I first used something similar from a drift boat on the PM river in Michigan for Steelhead although there choice was Spiltshot to load the float & not fly weight. Personally I tend not to use these on the rivers now but that’s just a personal preference.

[@jds4935]

This indicator can’t slide through the hengelogen when you bring in the fish????

[@ericlong9085]

Would you use it on the river

[@FullingMillTV]

It's designed for stillwater, and would be challenging on a river unless it's VERY slow. You could try, but it would likely be challenging.

[@wvlongshooter3912]

Can I order from fulling mill being in on the USA ?

[@FullingMillTV]

We will have it available at this end of this year!

[@wvlongshooter3912]

@@FullingMillTV thank you and thanks for emailing and calling me on the phone about this product!!!

[@fr.davidkuttner4034]

Interesting concept but it seems limited to fishing lighter weight patterns in calm conditions.. the necessary weight of the flues to get thus indicator to "load" properly is odd (red dot, yellow dot??).. assuming this refers to Fulling mill patterns tied at a specific weight. Forces you to use their oatterns.. no rhanks. Can't see how this indicator system would support heavier patterns fished deeper in the water column especially in windy conditions with surface chop. For calm conditions in shallow water a NZ indicator system does what this system does without the "dots" gimmick...

[@DirtyMardi]

Use a bigger bobber for heavier patterns, no? It’s not really hard to make yourself any kinds of indicators you might need and estimate the needed weights. After all, that’s what you do with any sort of indicator. These are more akin to normal lake fishing competition bobbers than fly fishing indicators, just a tad smaller and made from soft foam. Fly fishing bobbers are usually just simple floats that are useful in rivers but way worse in stillwater because the fish won’t necessarily pull as much. Oh, and the dots are clearly just an addition to make selecting matching flies and indicators faster.

[@jdk6584]

Do you guys ship to Australia?

[@FullingMillTV]

Yes we do!

[@davidwillacy4796]

Howard, I loved the video but let’s not get silly here, this thing is a float. How it’s used ,weighted etc etc is all really clever but it’s still a float. Do I use them, yes I do but at least I call it a float. Not a bung. Not an anti sinking device or anything else you can think up. Why are top class anglers such as yourself so obsessed about not calling a float a float. Cheers

[@howardcrostonflyfisher9227]

Hi David , I quite openly refer to all bungs as “floats” as essentially that’s what they are . “Indicator “ is the fly fishers common reference so I see no reason to call it anything else. We all know what it is so to get wound up over the name is fairly pointless imo.

[@jameswilson6717]

Agreed but it’s just a glorified name for a stick float but they don’t want to call it that because it’s not seen as fly fishing but hey do what you please I say

[@andrewdking]

​@@jameswilson6717Using Coarse fishing parlance, as it's connected bottom end only, it's a Waggler. A Stick Float is held to the line top and bottom and used to trot rivers and streams

[@Stannystansfield]

Is this uploaded on the KZbin channel I can only access it via the email advising that you have new bungs in stock

[@FullingMillTV]

It is currently a limited release link, so only certain folks have access.

[@Stannystansfield]

@@FullingMillTVthank you for releasing the video to the masses I’ve been intrigued about this method when I first saw it in the catalogue. I totally get it and can see lots of applications in my fishing where I can use it. Will keep you posted on results I think it will transform my Stillwater fishing

[@FullingMillTV]

@@Stannystansfield Fantastic! Enjoy.

[@Loyalist-ul6qm]

Course fishermen will be pissing them self laughing this is not fly fishing it's float fishing come on I'm all for the bung but this is not allowed on most fishery as its practally float on fly why do you think there's no bubble float and fly rules on all fisheries 😂😂😂

[@howardcrostonflyfisher9227]

I would be really interested in how you differentiate between a “bung” and a “float” when both effectively do the same thing - ie suspend a fly . Keeping in mind most small Stillwater anglers use hookless bungs - ie a small bubble float , that’s is commonly “accepted “ as fly fishing like it or not . The real issue I think “bung” anglers have with this is that it removes the illusion that somehow because the “float” they happen to be using looks the same as everyone else’s float means somehow it’s not float fishing and is “Bung” fishing - a very thin argument. I could argue boobies / Fritz / PVDF tippet material/ carbon fly rods are not “fly fishing” - all have received similar controversy at some point in time.

[@bobbell5265]

Howard is a great angler and has a great inquisitive and technical mind.....hats off to him.🖕🖕🖕

[@FullingMillTV]

Very much agreed!

[@tommisyoung]

Impressive

[@FullingMillTV]

Thank you!

[@carlcrook4803]

Hay too bad you can't order they drop back bung indicator in the USA I tried thats Ok I will just make my own.

[@FullingMillTV]

They will be in stock in a few weeks in the US!

[@7pinky791]

That's waggler fishing, it will be impossible to cast in the wind in open reservoirs.

[@FullingMillTV]

If you watch the video he actually discussed this. It lays flat against the line and cast fantastically well.

[@davidbenjamin5356]

That would be easier to cast with a spinning rod and mono loaded fixed spool reel.

[@MoDilemma]

In much countries a use of more than one fly is not allowed.

[@FullingMillTV]

This can be used with a single fly on the small version of it!

[@789stv]

Why dont you chuck in some maggots around your bung \ float . Will still be flyfishing because they were caught on a fly ? Sorry but thats no fly fishing bud.😢

[@howardcrostonflyfisher9227]

Based on that - no one who fish’s any form of hookless indicator (float - irrespective of the shape) is a fly angler - and that includes an awful of “fly anglers “ both in the UK & the US .

[@789stv]

@@howardcrostonflyfisher9227 You must admit this is a waggler float with flies under it.

[@howardcrostonflyfisher9227]

@@789stv in the same way an “indicator “ is a bobber / small bubble float with flies under it . Anyone who can’t admit that I’m afraid is fooling themselves. I think I have a pretty good handle on “fly” fishing and although “indicator” / “float” tactics are not top of my personal list , in a global context they are pretty high up the list for a lot of anglers and most would argue from there perspective it is fly fishing. It’s really simple - if you don’t like them / it , don’t use it , but equally don’t condemn those who do . As I’ve said previously with all the threats to sport fishing as a whole , anglers picking holes in other anglers because of how they choose to fish is the real threat to all fishing “fly” or otherwise.

[@789stv]

@@howardcrostonflyfisher9227 Yes i get that, and i have been known on occasion to use a large dry with the buzzer or nymph suspended below. The idea is to catch fish and enjoy yourself. No way am i a flyfishing snob , but a lot of the smaller fisherys , have turned to float/bung fishing looking like a canal competition on some days. I suggest it is influenced by a lot of course fishing guys turning to fly fishing and developing it on smaller waters. Anyway all the best and tightlines ,whatever method we use.

[@robgreen6697]

It’s similar to fishing bombardier floats and flies for sea trout. Anyone having an issue with this has to accept the fishing is mainly for stocked fish in a small water so it’s hardly JR Hartley purist anyway. Catch fish enjoy the day take all your litter home be happy.

[@bogdansliwicki968]

It is not how many fish....

[@steveorton2441]

A better name would be a SAW. Short Arsed Waggler.

[@squatchy69]

These wouldn't be worth a crap on most rivers unless they were chalk streams. A moving river would make these useless. Same with most lakes as soon as a little chop came up on the water.

[@howardcrostonflyfisher9227]

Not designed for river fishing, still very effective on lakes even with chop.

[@wohltemper]

lol which part of “stillwater” didn’t you understand?😅

[@glideman]

Must admit that this method is not for me. I'm a member of a fly fishing club with about 130 members & most of them have taken up fishing like this. It's not sporting or fly fishing in my view. Walking along the side of our water seing lots of people sat in chairs fishing the float just isn't what this sport is all about. It de-skills anglers and fly fishing. Why not use a float? If people aren't ashamed of using this method, why call it an indicator or bung or something else? Just call it a float. Just my view.

[@ph1shstyx]

This has been my view as well, it seems anything used in fly fishing is being called an indicator instead of a bobber or float like it is in spin fishing. I usually carry a couple oros and airlocks with me fishing for the super fast and heavy pools but I don't pretend it's anything but what it is. 90% of the time when using an indicator I prefer the NZ strike indicator system as it's super sensitive when fishing small midge flies and much easier to cast, but outside of winter and runoff fishing, i'm usually just going with the dry dropper setup.

[@HB-bc5po]

Do you see a dry dropper set-up as a "float"? It seems to be mainly used as such. If I tie a hook to my "bobber" is it then kosher?

[@ph1shstyx]

@@HB-bc5po I personally don't see it as a float, but I also have no problem with fishing however you want to fish, as long as it follows the rules and regulations of the stream you're fishing on. They're all different types of fishing, dry dropper to cover both zones, wool or yarn style indicator fishing, or fishing with a foam bobber or "indicator". If you want to put a hook on a bobber, go for it, i've seen enough fish hit my indicator that i've contemplated it before.

[@enlightenedone7141]

My sentiments exactly!!!

[@johnbarton974]

Its just float fishing not fly fishing.