THE BEST LANDS FOR YOUR cEDH MANA BASE

[@Ramen4Days]

I love that when Cam gets over excited his laugh is literally hyuk hyuk hyuk hyuk

[@helicopter160]

I have never passionately disagreed with a rankings list more, god i love play to win content

[@samuelbeall439]

🤣This is an accurate comment! Still great content!

[@theaamanable]

What did you disagree with?

[@RINNECODA]

38:20 Mana Confluence is slightly better than City of Brass, Cam is always right and Food Chain always wins games.

[@T_v_W2]

Nah City is beter

[@ShyQharacter]

Agreed. If you have urborg or Yavimaya, Confluence can be tapped for ⚫️ or 🟢 to prevent life loss, but Brass will deal damage no matter what

[@ZakalweDisenfranchised]

Giving your opponents a trigger to respond to is always a potential downside brass is far worse

[@InmAncalagon]

Mana Confluence gets stopped by Yasharn though. Also City of Brass is a trigger so you can still tap it while at 1 life if you have a way to win at instant speed in response to the trigger.

[@jmcomparan]

@@InmAncalagonKarn’s Sylex stops it too, although it’s rare you’d see in in cEDH though lol

[@tylerhennessy2701]

This land is your land. This land is my land. From Underground river to the basic Island.

[@Mulletdog1]

You win today

[@javiernaranjo8087]

This game was made for you and me🎶

[@jordancaldwell2208]

​@@javiernaranjo8087if I'm playing Underground River and Basic Island then this game was made for me and me.

[@radikaldesignz]

This land was made for you and me 🎶 (Rainbow Vale)

[@sillyrabbit6203]

Cavern of Souls not making the list is a war crime

[@zweis]

Isn't that one in utility lands? I feel like that'd make more sense lol

[@viigg0875]

@@zweisit is and but i mean ancient tomb was also there. For perspective cavern of souls was a 7 and tomb a 4 in a scale where they just ranked cards in top 10 style.

[@skylerdavis8839]

But I would agree? Outside of tivit, godo, and atraxa, who runs it?

[@zweis]

@@skylerdavis8839 Blue Farm does

[@murdermastodon7469]

They talked about it on their other land review cast I’m pretty sure

[@MrPhantomPC]

I yelled at cam that fetchlands were printed in onslaught and finished in zendikar then the orderlies dragged me back to the old folks home.

[@vOid-tl3tj]

I actually think the fetch lands are significantly better than the duels. The only difference that duals have to shocks is two life, and while they are still incredibly powerful, the ability for fetchlands to fuel graveyards, shuffle at instant speed, and be whatever color whenever you need, they can even be card selection with the new surveil lands, i think whay fetches do is much more valuable than what og duals provide.

[@thesamuraiman]

That's a good way to look at it.

[@colinfanning9854]

Yes fetches are way better duels would be fine and important but only one in a hundred cards without them with them they're easily 5 to 11 copies in a Deck

[@magusofthebargain]

You are correct, mostly because of a little card called Brainstorm.

[@carlosfernandez4536]

Definitely. Even with a mono colored deck playing fetches lets you slim down the deck given some more consistent draws

[@laytonjr6601]

If Duals really are better than fetches, in a 5c deck with 10 fetches you should have all 10 duals as well and I don't think that's the case

[@twilightwolf90]

4:50 OG Zendikar was the first set that had enemy colored fetches. Cam isn't totally wrong.

[@brendans1983]

Diplomatic 👍

[@MrJonathan107]

Cam is 100% right on Forbidden Orchard. It is a 1. I have never felt good about using or including it. I have cut it from every single deck I play (RogSi, Atraxa, Sythis, Krark/Sakashima).

[@Dubhats]

Honestly I like Gemstone Caverns a little better than Chrome Mox and Mox Diamond, because when you top deck it with an empty hand it still provides you with a resource you can use. The other two are absolute dead draws with an empty hand AND they trigger Rhystic Study effects and are awful into Rule of Law effects.

[@mitchellsellers7791]

I think it depends on what type of deck you are playing too. Turbo decks, particularly ad nauseam decks, will prefer having the rocks, as you only get one land drop per turn.

[@RINNECODA]

@@mitchellsellers7791exactly, turbo decks will want the rocks to get a faster naus but it’ll also enable a better post-naus too

[@Matkinson3355]

30:45 "if you run super slow TURBO blue control"...Heard this line from across the room and stopped what I was doing to wtf?! Love you guys keep up the content

[@codykizer6359]

Really cool part about Dylan playing Atraxa I get to hear her as a frame of reference for the next 2 months in videos. I am genuinely happy about it!.

[@Sidnv]

In the MTGO vintage cube, you definitely pick fetches ahead of duals because triomes also exist. Fetches are a tier above duals in priority. If triomes aren't in the cube, it's much closer.

[@AdmiralSnakbar77]

Gemstone Mine's quality definitely hinges on your strategy, I think. In a Turbo deck, it's an easy auto-include. Once you start going towards a slower Stax strategy, it falls off pretty quick. Great video!

[@yogcastfandk]

You can tutor command tower with tower winder!

[@NBellTV]

The constant threat of a potential "I Think You Should Leave" reference keeps me coming back

[@toctheyounger]

Whenever there isn't I think "this is the greatest betrayal that's ever been seen"

[@Olivia-ev9hk]

I feel you cam. I also have that excited puppy loud voice energy.

[@SHlNT0]

24:26 this laugh can cure any depression

[@starchaser6024]

HYUK hyuk hyuk hyuk hyuk hyuk a gah ha

[@JohnnyOrigami]

Great video. I'd love to see you all talk about the best combo's in cEDH soon.

[@jacobwhite6316]

Already my favorite CEDH content by a country mile, but Dylan lamenting the sixers loss really is the cherry on top

[@agarcn6704]

The new york knicks are named after knickerbockers. It refers to the style of pants dutch settlers wore...pants that rolled up just below the knee, which became known as "Knickerbockers", or "knickers.

[@PsychoticSashimiS]

Such a fun video, been busy so took 3 days to watch the whole thing but it was 110% worth it!!

[@EvolutionMeister]

I love how there's more disagreement about lands than any of the actual spells discussed in these podcasts. Rating playability of all 5 colors worth of spells? Easy. True Duel Lands? We riot!

[@HeellionI]

Few months ago I have cut Forbidden Orchard from my Prossh list, BUT, since I realised how good early game Defense of the Heart can be (to find 2-piece creature combo) so I put Forbidden Orchard back to my deck and it works- for me, at least.

[@jodylester9118]

It brings me untold joy that Cam has a One Piece laugh.

[@Orissander]

Guys forgot: Cavern of Souls, Urza's Saga, Otawara and Boseiju!

[@Dubhats]

Those were in the utility lands list they did a bit ago!!

[@carlospadilla7247]

Again every land you mentioned is a utility land

[@VitalSyntax]

In cube you usually want to take fetch lands before dual lands, not because they are necessarily better, but because they are in higher demand/lower supply. There are usually shocks, tiomes, and now surveil lands that can all be paired with fetches.

[@jacob510]

A little Surprised to not see thran quarry, Rog loves that land. I think it still sees play in Najeela and other creature based decks too.

[@DracoUmbra95]

Dylan's shirt game is always on point. It took me a minute to figure out what it said, but love the Becky's rep!

[@ryantomczak2248]

Other lands I really like are the Slow lands. I do not play them in all decks, but in two color decks and non-turbo three color decks they are good. Most of the time they come in untapped.

[@Vopian]

Well new fave magic podcast love both the guys energy especially together new sub

[@magusofthebargain]

Prismatic Vista is good in a Blood Moon heavy meta where you are always fetching for basic lands. Hermit Druid players don't play it though. Gemstone Mine is only good in super fast turbo decks where you actually consistently try to win on turn 3. Forbidden Orchard is for 5 color combo decks where you don't care about board state, you just need consistent mana to combo off.

[@DabbleDo]

You guys should rank all the banned cards 🙏 was inspired when you definitively decided that City of Traitors is 100% a better card then black lotus

[@stasjovb]

Fetches are definitely better in 3+ decks because it finds all 3 colours while duals only have 2 colours If i could choose og duals or fetches id pick fetches and take shockes instead

[@matthickman6007]

Good call on terminating the decimal on 1.99. If you don't, it's just equal to 2.

[@aultimusprime]

I run a handful of the pain lands that also tap for colorless in my Kenrith deck for one reason, Eldrazi Displacer. You need colorless mana to activate his flicker ability, and he's my backup should I lose access to Emiel. Eldrazi Displacer is also nice because you can us him to tap opponents' creatures if need be, something Emiel can't do.

[@w.s6124]

Forbidden Orchard in 5 coloured Turbo deck is very good. Also it can be used to give other players spirits for block when they are attacked. In my cedh playtime i got a bunch of ragavans, esper Sentinels and other X/1s with this.

[@guilhermezuchini4227]

I love this guys, nice work!!

[@alexabney7913]

I feel like great hall of the citadel is pretty good. It’s like a signet that can also tap for colorless except it can filter for any combo of colors

[@magusofthebargain]

without dual lands and shocklands, the fetchlands would not be nearly as powerful. Tapping a land for one color on turn 1 and another color on turn 2 is where this combo really shines. It's such an old combo and so commonly used that people forget just how powerful it is. If you are new to Magic, the first 20 cards I recommend picking up are a playset of shock lands and a playset of fetch lands, Oh and a playset of original dual lands if you can afford it. You can say "yeah I just started playing Magic, so I only have 30 cards in my collection so far, but that's almost a third of the way to a deck!!"

[@dekina1198]

well... if you are new to magic i think most people don't even know if they'll stick for it for a longer time. maybe the also just play very casually... and then telling them to spend about 100€ on all fetchlands + 100€ on shock lands isn't what i would tell them... that's a 200€ investment for a game you might not stick with for longer. get a precon and check if you enjoy it first.... also before spending 200€ bucks on 20 cards is still not something i would recommand, rather buy a printer with that money and suddenly you can have all you ever might want. i personally would only tell someone to buy them if they wanted to collect cards or just really really dislike playing with proxies. the only real cards i have are about 3000 commons which i just use to put them into sleeves with my printed cards so it acutally feels like a cards and doesn't wobble around lol

[@magusofthebargain]

@@dekina1198 Hopefully, if someone is new to Magic, they can be given a box of commons, and enough basic lands for 5 mono-colored decks. Casual 60-card formats still exist, but I would recommend that players start with 40-card decks, since a brand new player's whole collection is basically a limited sealed pool. After building up confidence with these casual decks, they could go on to play sealed and draft at an LGS. The value here being the experience more than the cards themselves, but for budget reasons, I recommend cube drafting for new and old players alike.

[@ezraandersen7133]

We need a second part of cEDH lands. Y’all missed so many playable and potent lands- and you even name dropped some (Otawara, Gaea’s). Personally requesting the inclusion of Plaza of Heroes

[@Koshersquid]

Forbidden Orchard griefing your opponent's Tymna draws and Ragavan attacks is an upside that y'all are missing. Is it as good as Mana Confluence? Probably not. But it's pretty solid.

[@BudgetPubStomper-lr7nh]

Was nervous when it seemed you were putting exotic orchard above mana confluence/city Nice audible Cam👍👍👍

[@BudgetPubStomper-lr7nh]

I’m almost embarrassed to say how happy I am when I see a new PTW video is out. Then I get nervous that it’s gonna be about casual or something not really cEdh.. then when I see it’s a cedh topic??? Super happy. Thanks so much guys. Keep ‘em coming ❤️❤️❤️

[@Shiftcor]

I'm so sad that the tango lands didn't get mentioned. I feel like I lean to those before even considering the surveil lands.

[@carlospadilla7247]

Remember, this is from the pov of cedh not budget and surveil lands are fetchable so Unless your 2 color deck has 40 land, why would you run these?

[@Shiftcor]

@@carlospadilla7247 exactly! I do think that the surveil lands will see a bunch more play in budget decks going forward now that we've had a month to try em out.

[@lucascoutinho8167]

I think forbidden orchard is fine if you don't rely on attacking and are pip intensive. Handing out blockers against Tymna's and Najela's should end up more relevant than the tokens being used some other way because them being used as blocker should come up a lot more. I'm currently running it on a midrange Jan Jansen deck.

[@nothiiiiiiiing]

How good would a sliver queen deck be?

[@jeferssonpinho]

Fetches are always better than duals, even more now with the surveil lands

[@ulyssessanchez2328]

I'm a little suprised by your opinion on the Prismatic Vista I find that to be at least a 3.1 at least Personally, I will have at least a few basic lands in my deck for various reasons and having something that can deck thin or shuffle the deck can be useful I do hate that it's pricey though

[@Yourbeautiful666]

I actually do play Command Tower in my mono color decks, but that’s because in my playgroup there are cards like Choke and Boil being played.

[@dekina1198]

sounds like they just dislike blue, lol

[@Yourbeautiful666]

@@dekina1198 Lol well our group is comfy with MLD/Land hate, so it’s all fair game no matter the color. But yes they do hate on my blue decks lol.

[@ManrielXiii]

In Breya, I play all the painlands due to their interaction with Forsaken Monument. Forsaken + Basalt Monolith being the important combo. (Also talismans matter more, mishra's workshop, etc)That gas only deck that tries to win immediately is the exception though.

[@dekina1198]

well, forsaken monument isn't a card i ever saw in a cEDH game... i sounds good in casual tho

[@ManrielXiii]

@@dekina1198 It's because you dont put it in every deck.

[@magusofthebargain]

Brainstorm is such a great card. I'm thinking of putting it back into my cEDH list. You're only really supposed to cast it on the turn you win. Gotta hold that Brainstorm as long as possible. Same with Time Walk.

[@dekina1198]

a cards that is "dead" untill you want to win doesn't sound good to me

[@magusofthebargain]

@@dekina1198 Why do you think Brainstorm is restricted in Vintage? Should it be unrestricted? What would that do to the format? Brainstorm is a great topdeck late game in a deck where you have extra cards in your hand to shuffle away with a fetchland. Tutors are much better than card draw in a 99-card format, so maybe Brainstorm doesn't make the cut in most 5-color decks, but if you're playing 1, 2, or even 3 colors and you're not playing Brainstorm, you might be missing out on a late game card draw opportunity.

[@beecas3766]

is it just me or does Glimmervoid not get enough love?

[@ConstructiveCriticHD]

It's funny because you would think the value of Pain Lands would go up, just as another avaliable way to use "Null-E-Blast" when it comes out. But to be honest you're only countering multi-color lower tier commanders. Most high cEDH commanders get around this like Nigelia, Sisay, or Yuriko. But it will be valuable for Kennan after a turn cycle, or if you're lucky Atraxa. Counters culling Ritual. So not having blue and stopping some early turn 3 play with a pain is not that bad. Pains will feel better in my Abzan control or Voltron Boros because of Null Elemental Blast.

[@moisesalejandro96]

What about the lands that tap for 2 colors and removes a counter? I uae it in monocolor / 2 color heavy pip comanders.

[@Ishmokin]

Forbidden Orchard is a solid 4 in my ikra kraum deck. Superb Synergy with Culling Ritual ;) hehehe

[@Grayvern]

I love me a good glimmervoid risky but effective

[@aHairyBaboon]

Did i completely miss it or were the triomes completely skipped? In a three color deck i am picking triomes up over surveil lands unless it combos with something

[@thehitchhikingchef]

A lot of these dual lands with downside are budget options. I run them in my tivit

[@SadisticCommentator]

Newer to cEDH but for 3/4 color decks do we not even consider triomes?

[@yawgmoththeineffable8660]

Hi, coming into play tapped makes them too slow/not optimal for cEDH. A 3-color deck already plays 3 duals, 3 shocks, 7 fetch lands, Command Tower, Mana Confluence, City of Brass, Exotic Orchard, Gemstone Caverns and few other 2-colored, that comes untapped (like Battlebond ones or Modern Horizon ping lands). Then there’s handful of utility lands and triomes just don’t make the cut.

[@Some_Context]

color fixing in cEDH is really good even in 5c so them tapping for 3 colors isn't a huge boon. That small benefit doesn't outweigh the drawback of them coming in tapped, even if you just run one in your 99 and then fetch it when you aren't doing anything else. That last scenario has also been taken up by the surveil lands, so there really isn't any place for them.

[@dekina1198]

having a turn 1 play is pretty important in cEDH, especially if you have faster decks at the table. so having lands that come is only okey if there is another upside. and tapping for 3 colors isn't enough imo. i think the once that are fetchable can be played in exactly 3 color decks. but appart from that, they mostly only see play in budget lists

[@bigschaeff1]

Awesome list. Gemstone caverns is my #1, but I agree with most of your placings

[@TCVxPRIDE]

Pain lands from my understanding are played over Horizon lands. I play 1 pain land in my Tivit List for the extra blue / white pips

[@LyndseyLuvs]

With the Blue Moon and Blood Moon, how do the effects layer? Are all your non-basic lands able to count as Mountains and Islands?

[@dancingmathusalem5451]

Because they are both typesetting effects, it goes to timestamps

[@gypsieking3280]

So you know, i would watch you two doing deep dives into the entomology of words. start with the New York Knicks.

[@emiliolooney8026]

Forbidden Orchard is kinda lit, coming from your local flubs player

[@MareczqZglos]

I do not agree - fetch lands are better then OG Duals. Fetch lads can go for Shocks, Triom, Basic, and some other lands with "type". If you see blood moon, you can go get the "one" basic You have in deck, to get mana for remuval etc. So if we would get banned OG Duals, we would still play all fetches ;) On top of that fetches shuffle - what really metter more then people think ;) Ther is a reason why Fetches are higher priority at start then OG Duals in Cube Draft ;) Still both are top , and agree 5/5 ;P

[@powarless]

Did bond lands come out after this video?

[@williamchu4595]

to me best lands are Fountainport (it can create infinte token + draw with infinite untap) Den of the Bugbear (it can create infinte damage and infinite goblin with infin mana) because they are both win con that is land base

[@jacobwest7921]

I play Crystal Vein in my Jhoria, Weatherlight Captain historic storm deck 😅 What about fomori Vault, though?

[@graydowns9731]

Took my forbidden orchard out for undercity sewers last week.

[@fitnesshunter6302]

Krarkashima plays forbidden orchard in order to abuse snap

[@dekina1198]

forbidden orchard is also meh if your deck wants to connect with creatures. like najeela tokens get blocked, tymna decks doesn't want them because you wanna connect to

[@thiagorebello]

25:24 Wrong! We care a lot about ancient tomb because it enables some of our key creatures and rhystic study by turn 1. City of traitors is poop though 😁

[@Highwang]

Are triomes not used enough in cedh?

[@franslair2199]

They're taplands so that's an inherent issue.

[@Highwang]

@@franslair2199 Yeah, I just feel like i've seen them in play on the channel but I could be mistaken.

[@iPhoneeditor]

​@@Highwang The only one I see regularly is Jetmir's garden in Naya decks like Rocco and even then only sometimes. They use stack interaction less and when they have a free fetch that can graph a tapped shock land or triome they can grab it as another land that will tap for all their colors for no downside. The potential upside of cycling it to draw a card in decks that aren't running blue is sometimes handy too so it's a bit less dead in your hand, but still not ideal.

[@dekina1198]

having a turn 1 play is pretty important in cEDH, especially if you have faster decks at the table. so having lands that come is only okey if there is another upside. and tapping for 3 colors isn't enough imo. i think the once that are fetchable can be played in exactly 3 color decks. but appart from that, they mostly only see play in budget lists

[@ErKaHaWe]

Thanks for your content and ranking:)🎉 . But i cant find the triome lands😢. Does this means my deck are wores then decks with standardlands?😮😂😢😂

[@skullkrusher-dx4kg]

Id have ancient tomb at 5 if your playing signets.

[@dekina1198]

appart from acrane signet, signets rarely see play in cEDH

[@Aarvex]

@@dekina1198 He probably means talismans which do see plenty of play

[@brendanthorne8353]

How do you guys feel about holdout settlement?

[@brendanthorne8353]

Also wondering about reflecting pool. Asking for a friend

[@dekina1198]

@@brendanthorne8353 having a turn 1 play is pretty important in cEDH, especially if you have faster decks at the table. so having a land that does nothing on turn 1 hurts holdout settlement has a simular problem but atleast tapps for colorless. tho i never saw it in any commander games, the downside for having to tap a creature also hurts. i personally would run thran quarry over it tho that one still doesn't see much play

[@MageSkeleton]

i feel like the print count and prices of each of these lands should had been mentioned. Because let's be real, if the land can enter untapped and provide you with options of colors, it's going to be more valuable and sought after than a land that would enter tapped especially since right now we only have about three cards available in the game right now that allows lands to enter untapped.

[@dekina1198]

cEDH is a competative format, so you play the best cards you have access to, and the format is so proxy friends, 300 bucks for a dual land isn't worth it if you are not looking at collecting. instead buy a printer for that money and you have all your cards you ever want

[@nicklance4788]

A lot of colorless cards need the colorless symbol, so 5 and a half color maybe?

[@TheBalisticGinger]

Gaea's cradle - 4.7 creature decks play this card Reflecting pool - 4.1 bad first, can't color fix. Still great (I love this card and am rating it higher than it should probably go out of personal bias) Triomes - 2.6 just run a surveil land in this slot Reveal lands - 1 bad don't give your opponent free info Buddy lands - 1.8 only run in 2 color decks, meh

[@wesleymitchell2460]

Fetches are better in cube. Fetches early can put you in ALMOST any color combo. Dual lands immediately tie you to that color combo.

[@TheFewLimited]

haha very random but in case no one answered the New York Knicks are named originally the New York Knickerbockers which was later shortened.

[@jordancaldwell2208]

Cam: *"Fetchlands are lands printed in Zendikar..."* Onslaught: *"Am I a joke to you?"* Edit: Cam corrected himself

[@dekina1198]

in Zendikar they completed the cycle, so he is not 100% wrong

[@nobodyworthy897]

Does Reflecting Pool not see cEDH play? I imagine it would be rated around the same as Exotic Orchid.

[@dekina1198]

only ever saw it in 2 color decks. having a turn 1 play is pretty important in cEDH, especially if you have faster decks at the table. so having a land that does nothing on turn 1 hurts

[@TheSlickBandito]

No Gaea's Cradle? I feel like we forgot some lands existed here lol

[@Rizso1]

fetchlands are nr1, would rate them nr 1 just cos they can find utility as well

[@HeellionI]

"Let's talk about lands. NOT utility lands, but the other lands, just mana lands!...OK then, Number ONE: fetch lands!" XD

[@Chance801]

Tri-Lands don’t make the cut? Even four and five color decks?

[@skullkrusher-dx4kg]

Are all these lands that sacrificw themselves good in gitrog?

[@seankeane769]

What do you think about reflecting pool? I like it in 2-3 color decks but that’s an interesting card

[@dekina1198]

having a turn 1 play is pretty important in cEDH, especially if you have faster decks at the table. so having a land that does nothing on turn 1 hurts

[@dreynip]

@@dekina1198 Sure, but at that point it's exactly the same as Exotic Orchard and Reflecting Pool doesn't rely on your opponents

[@rubendevos8635]

No Pathways? Or are these just too specific?

[@aaronreed1890]

Command Tower is fetchable now with that snake from OTJ right?

[@dekina1198]

yes it is tho i don't think that card is playable in cEDH. maybe if it would put it into play instead of in your hand :/

[@aaronreed1890]

I agree the card looks fun but probably not playable even in casual because it goes to the hand.

[@lits2722]

To play devil's advocate, I don't think I've ever seen anyone use a spirit from forbidden orchard for anything useful in my entire time playing cedh. There's always one deck in a pod that just doesn't care about having spirits or is way too behind for it to matter. There's also the upside that I've seen many times where people give away spirits for free to keep a tevesh from getting to the ultimate lmao. Idk maybe I'm biased because of the decks I play against all the time but I don't think it's bad.

[@blaaaarrrrgMTG]

Pain lands and horizon lands should be a scoach higher, because you have to use them for a 4th turn to have lost more life than fetching for a shock

[@hydra1259]

Urborg + Yavimaya make mana conflience happy

[@willmatson3103]

I've killed a player with a City of Brass by blinking Derevi (Emiel + Cradle). But other than this sort of niche interaction, City of Brass is better than Mana Confluence.

[@jplxlabelle1681]

Command Tower was given a fair shake. It is worse than basics sometimes, for all the reasons you said. However you missed the spells it dodges. Like anything that hates on basics. There's a reason Merfolk doesn't play all basics over Minamo and other "non-island" islands. Would you rather have a single Mountain, or a Comand Tower when staring down a Sundering Titan or the like? Command Tower is always better than Basics because it produces all five colours and ETBs' untapped. What more do you want from it? It isn't making you avocado toast for extra points. It doesn't need to. It's already pretty damn good in almost all cases besides a couple "Moon" cards.

[@ryantomczak2248]

I have actually started cutting Gemstone Caverns from my lists, unless it is a turbo deck. The reason being that you only see it in your opening hand once out of 70+ games. And if I mulligan to 4 or 3 I do not want this land. In a turbo list it is necessary, otherwise it is not a good card in my humble opinion.

[@dekina1198]

i personally only have gemstone caver in either decks that want to be really fast OR decks where the commander(s) have card draw to make up for the disadvantage

[@FelipeLundgreen]

The best deck to play Forbidden Orchard is definetely Kelsien, The Plague. One guaranted exp. counter each turn 👍🏽.

[@DeterminedCuriosity]

City of Traitors is better than black lotus, Play to Win certified

[@skypavlov6870]

i value surveil lands over even the battlebond opponent lands