The Best New City Builders To Fulfil Your Mayoral Dreams (Play Now!)

[@GamerZakh]

Instead of upcoming games how about well reviewed playable games? Enjoy! Also be sure to check out the newly released Citadelum [ad] on Steam: bit.ly/4d7OIT2 It's launched to positive reviews. Thank you for clicking and supporting, thanks to Abylight Studios for sponsoring.

[@WojDestroyer]

Zack you are WRONG about Worshippers of Cthulu - DEVELOPERS are Crazy Goat Games and PUBLISHER is Crytivo so you can't throw that under a rock same as was The Universim development time which actually was developed BY CRYTIVO and published by CRYTIVO which led to long development..... different dev team = different time game is cooking in Early Access. Just FYI.

[@GamerZakh]

@@WojDestroyer I'm not wrong about who is what, I literally write on the screen the developers for the main list games so I do check, and say that it's published by Crytivo. I know how publishers work, they influence development a lot. I've been making these list videos for over a decade, you know I've looked a lot into these things in that time, right? Mainly, I'm taking the developers at their word. They say, "We plan to be in Early Access for about a year but we cannot be sure here!" Even the devs aren't confident and can't commit to the 1-year timeline because they're not sure themselves. If they had a bit more confidence, so would I. If you want me to have more confidence on the 1-year estimate, go tell the devs to be more confident.

[@Daeinyr]

Frostpunk 1 was better

[@Naariyal_pani]

Can we get such a city building gems for Android phones. I think such games died in android.. or never born. Pay2win are found mostly

[@GamerZakh]

@@Naariyal_pani I got this older video for mobile city builders: kzbin.info/www/bejne/faOyoJqbqs6NZpY

[@riccardo4754]

Against the Storm must be brought in every list. It is a masterpiece. If anyone is like me, that likes to start a new Anno games and never get to a real closure... AtS is as if Anno games do not overstay their welcome. Roguelike. Love every bit of it even if I kinda suck :D

[@Cenot4ph]

I didnt like it at all, it's really a sort of puzzle game.. I can't put my finger on it, but it's not the kind of strategy game that I like personally

[@snakeboy6368]

Me neither, AtS has nothing to do with what I like in a city builder…

[@BendyRoy]

I tried taking a break from ATS with some Anno but ATS is so good it broke Anno for me. WHY ISN'T THE UI SIZE EDITABLE IN ANNO?

[@davyprendergast82]

I'm just waiting for a rival to cities skylines. It seems there are dozens of either medieval or post apocalyptic survival city building games, yet only one regular city builder. And when a game comes along where we can build a city, then integrate other games within it (for example, like a GTA style add on, or a car racing add on that you can play within the city you have built!), wow that will blow my mind

[@Game_InSky]

Workers and Resources Soviet republic, although it's more of a logistics game.

[@davyprendergast82]

@@Game_InSky Cheers yeah I was aware of that and have been meaning to try it, but still I'd prefer a regular rival to CS

[@Game_InSky]

@@davyprendergast82 I had the same thought until I played it. It ended up being exactly what I had hoped out of CS2 and Transport Fever 2.

[@samwise222]

I had burned out on city builders a while ago and against the storm sucked me back in. Brilliant game

[@Yohann26]

My FOMO is pleased, because I tried 80% of those already :D Probably thx to your advices on older videos.

[@BurlapShaboigan]

Four Hooded Horse titles in here. Go HH!

[@GamerZakh]

They have been having a pretty good time these past few years.

[@LindaMissad]

Thanks @GamerZakh. Yes, my favorite genre --- Bought many city builder games based on your reviews and playthroughs. Great info

[@kingleonida5513]

Your updates always help me to find new city builders, is my fav genre since i was a kid Thank you man

[@austinattack]

i looooooove Fabledom. it's super simple and cute, but can get really hard if you don't take your time planning! Which is exactly what you want from a city builder. don't let the romance aspect fool ya!

[@TheBboyEnergy]

Also Citadelum is Zeus master of Olympus on crack which is great I can’t believe this game actually came out I’m so happy ❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️

[@Ails1234]

Thanks for the list Zakh! I tried the Tlatoani demo today and it's incredibly good. It feels as polished as any of the Impressions games

[@mizohican]

19:12 Nova Roma is one of the most anticipated city builders because it is developed by the same people who gave us "Kingdoms and Castles" (overwhelmingly positive on steam), that's why many people, including me, have wish-listed it.

[@yondie491]

I love War of the Underworld but Dungeons 3 and 4 are my preferred Dungeon Keeper successor Looking forward to some of these games, thank you for these lists as always

[@Seth6097]

Sponsor looks nice Fits well in the vid❤

[@gus3000]

The notion that Cities Skylines 1 was good when it launched is bit too generous. Yes, it worked but the base-game isn't that good. It's too easy and it looks childish. I think people forget that because we all mod it extensively, thereby making it into a good game. They also made it easier for themselves by using a lot of stuff from Cities in motion. Lastly, it was compared to Simcity V which is an awful game and still a huge disappointment (and to some extent CIties XL, which doesn't work especially well but is otherfine quite good).

[@icoborg]

totaly agree. it was sooooo green was unbearable....the technical limits were hilarious, the economic aspect basicly absent..i dont know but maybe with time people kind of forgot what a full game actually was.

[@laurencefraser]

Even without mods, or even the expansion DLCs, the base game was updated quite a bit to be a lot better than it was on release. And at release it actually Was pretty good. Not the greatest ever (lots of room for improvement) and definitely benefiting from the lack of compitent competition at the time, but still pretty good. Edit: mind you, the Paradox launcher getting shoved into it was the final straw on me buying anything associated with the company, so...

[@TheBboyEnergy]

Don’t forget the fan favorite Zeus Master of Olympus ❤️

[@drizztcat1]

Just grabbed Citadelum - looks like my type of city builder game.

[@TamalPlays]

Love to see more videos like this, where I can play good games now.

[@SAS1122334455]

thank you for the links for each game!

[@antalito3047]

Manor Lords has been one of the best early access releases I’ve expected in a long time!

[@Somebody374-bv8cd]

Thanks for the gog links (for those that have it).

[@markusheadmaster1844]

we absolutely love videos of top new games like this!

[@edcAdventures.]

I want a city builder where you build individual things and allow clipping and without a premade space and borders for each building. And as you add facilities, the more people appear and you can enter 3rd person mode and enter your city youve built

[@TheWhiteStar666]

Against the storm is amazing, I love city builders but I am bored with all those Banished clones where you just build your city with no real purpose and Against the Storm reinvented this genre for me!

[@darrenreynolds3531]

I like city builders with creative input.I like to design my city. That's my purpose. That's my goal. I've no interest in combat whatsoever in city builders. I found Against the Storm uninteresting and didn't like Frostpunk due to its lack of freedom to design your city either.

[@perer005]

The best thing with AtS is that you play the ”growth phase”. So things don’t need to be balanced for playing forever!

[@Tewlipz]

Didn't expect to find Gale Dekarios in Citadelum, but good on him

[@alexandrealonso2849]

This needs a part 2 with Farthest Frontier, Urbek, Ostriv and Thriving City: Song!

[@Winnetou17]

Ostriv does not apply, since it entered early access several years ago. I really hope the developer is ok, developing with rockets flying around you can't be that fun.

[@canis39]

Great video Zakh, really glad you are still doing your thing!

[@amnavas1971]

Fantastic video Zakh!

[@GamerZakh]

Thank you!

[@roberttaylor3594]

fabeldom looks the most interesting. I like the graphics in Nova Roma

[@darkangel102860]

Fabledom is great! It's the most fun I've had with a city builder since Banished!!!

[@zapso7742]

The command and conquer saga is also one of my favorites The remastered original game is a great game

[@GamerZakh]

Remaster is great, one good thing EA did. Then for some reason they didn't bother with the rest of the series.

[@zapso7742]

Again the storm is the best in many years Greetings from chile 🇨🇱

[@callmethreeone]

Another great video, thank you for your time! For those unsure of Frostpunk 2 it's free on Xbox PC pass

[@igoromelchenko3482]

Terrascape looks cool 😎

[@mh1593]

NOTE: The Unique Selling Point of Manor Lords is that it is meant to be fully historically accurate. Also it is a single lone developer so it's not going to be fast; however, updates are consistent and are being applied every couple of months.

[@alyssinwilliams4570]

the Lovecraftian one has me interested; I downloaded the demo, but have been a bit too busy to really delve into it yet. The space-whale one also seems interesting, as does Thrive. Already have Against the Storm and quite enjoy it :)

[@igoromelchenko3482]

I miss SimCity 😢

[@cyberjarl]

Talking about sequels that aren't true to the original while a spiritual successor is more faithful to the original, I would also have mentioned Sim City 2013 vs Cities Skylines. Even though Cities Skylines 2 did not do as great (but is getting better).

[@icoborg]

beside the shitstom of the unforgivable performance and gameply, they really shot themself on the foot with the busllisht mod mechanic....and te only reason to do that is to acquire the right to the mods and resell them in future release ...you can quote me on that.

[@cyberjarl]

@@icoborg Not only do I believe it, it is documented behavior because if you look at the DLCs available for CS1, you'll find a bunch of mod packs for sale

[@AmodeusR]

I've seen an independent developer make a spiritual succesor to The Settlers that looked even more an actual sequel than Pioneers of Pagonia, in particular The Settlers 3. Unfortunately I forgot the game's name, but it was very promising as a sequel to que classic The Settlers I grew up knowing about.

[@branc666]

Played the Demo from worshipers of chtulhu on steam, the game is amazing ❤

[@sokarash]

I personally think Terrascape is much more in line with puzzle games, especially Dorfromantik (even though the devs claim they started working before Dorfmantik was even shown). Not necessarly a classic city builder. Maybe some elements from them, but not at its core.

[@MexxSuspiria]

true, terrascape started long before DR, in 2019 there was already an article about the early terrascape in the media. They also openly admitted in the interview that islanders was their inspiration.

[@garou198]

The ones I tried: Frostpunk 2: very well made game, but I just wanted to fight in the frozen wasteland for survive and not to manage a society. I liked the first one better, simply because of the concept. Pioneers: there is a LOT to mine, harvest, forge, etc. I mean like a houndred different things, but not all of the essential. The design is fantastic, but the game can be a little bit frustrating. Less would have been more. Fabledom: I like it and agree everything Zakh said. Laysara: gets pretty boring quickly, it is more of a puzzle then a city builder, but looks pretty nice. Against the storm: best game from the list, hands down.

[@cmcc3721]

Workers and resources. Missed the only one that matters.

[@GamerZakh]

After half a decade in early access and being massively popular through all of that and me having been listing it extensively for that half decade, I struggle to classify that as 'new' even if it did just hit 1.0.

[@GamerZakh]

Oh to be clear, I'd likely treat Foundation the same if it released this year too. It's just at a point where everyone knows about it by now. 5 years is long enough and it doesn't need anymore exposure to be known.

[@aseroxd]

Little too much early access, but at least there's a lot to look forward to.

[@dusannikolic2164]

i would love to see you play civ 5, one of my favorites, maybe a playtrough series at different levels or some challenges, anyway i enojoy your videos

[@goldfisho15]

I love your videos so much. I really appreciate all the effort and work you put in!!

[@FineWine-v4.0]

Do you want to play "9-bit Armies: A bit too far" ?? It's on sale on steam until Oct 23 & it was made by Former WestWood-Studio Devs (& now under a new studio called "PetroGlyph") Also the Music is made by Frank Klepacki himself

[@frankarnold6324]

my loveley friend from gb , greatings from germany from your greatest fan here, great videos, and like billy idol: gimme more more more, love you

[@i3ighead96]

I'm waiting for 1.0 of Farthest Frontier. ;o

[@andrewsadowski6007]

City builders need to have a logistics system where the player needs to design them to include a hierarchy system… all to affect the efficiency and also dissemination of information/time it takes before you get a task or quest and how accurate the information is

[@SamekhAniki]

Hey Zakh, please play a citybuilding game it's very rare to find called Afterlife, where you manage Heaven and Hell and it's made by Lucasarts, the dudes behind Star Wars!

[@GamerZakh]

I've heard of that one, never played it myself. I definitely need more time to game, I can't keep up with all the new ones and there's still a lot of old ones I haven't tried.

[@tonai]

OMG I wished for something like Incan empire impressions games, so u build on mountains and stuff and i just saw Laysara yesss

[@tonai]

And now Ive seen Tlatoani lmao OMGGGG

[@nichhodge8503]

4:51 Memoriapolis from the point of view of someone who absolutely loves history is a game that I could really lose myself in. My first city building game was Sim City on the SNES and last one was City: Skylines 🏙

[@aliceguess1451]

Thank you for this video (I'm already searching for the games on Steam lol). For what you know can we play Pioneers of Pgonia with the controller? It's not clear written anywhere but the game seems one you need a controller to play it .

[@boredomramsay]

Against the storm is goat

[@DoubleD19788]

Really hated the direction Frostpunk 2 went in.

[@wolfius]

Though all of these look amazing, I was thinking that most of them are set in a medieval or roman era or some sort of fantasy world. I was wondering if there’s a city builder to create a futuristic city, maybe “cyberpunky”, that allows you to create something like Night City from cyberpunk 2077

[@GamerZakh]

There have been some attempts but I wouldn't say they turned out particularly impactful. Dystopika is a sandbox builder that people love but it's not a city-building game. Besides that nothing really has hit.

[@Ninja40K]

Zakh, you could make a video about spirit successor games.

[@xromad01]

which of these games is in the thumbnail?

[@anshulsingh8326]

Hi Do you know something like mix of clash of clans + Minecraft. I want resources collection and finding or creating new materials but simpler building yet little flexible. Maybe some exploration too?

[@piperbird7193]

I's so sad, you mentioned Wandering Village in your opening bit, but didn't actually feature it in the video. It's been one of my favorite games this year, and I don't hear many talking about it.

[@GamerZakh]

I've talked about it plenty, it's just not 'new' anymore. I listed it for many years. I gave them some consultation in the early days. I have dedicated videos on it. It's gotten about 5,000 steam reviews at 90% positive. It sold 100,000 copies in its first week. It's not some underdog.

[@antondzajajurca7797]

We are playing Paradox games. and they are playing us players :D

[@thepro9417]

i always wanted a game like sim city or cities skylines but i really wish i could walk or use a car, visit everything, etc.. you know, like a gta! or what if i was able to personalize every house or build? that would be a good game.

[@204017754]

You can walk around and drive cars in pocket city 2 on your phone. It’s pretty fun for a mobile game.

[@axelhopfinger533]

You forgot Flotsam, which is another small indie floating city builder/survival game in early access. Development is slow though. As is Foundation, which is nearing full release and offers a unique free form building style and is fully moddable.

[@GamerZakh]

I've listed both extensively in the past, they're "long early access" games, so aren't 'new' anymore. Foundation is even featured in the intro of this video.

[@axelhopfinger533]

@@GamerZakh Ah yes, they've been in development for quite a while now.

[@jessiesiegexabers5586]

I stopped buying early access games. Most of them are still early access 3-4 years after ugh 🤪. I’ll buy when it’s fully done.

[@kabiebebe2332]

Any recomendations?

[@GamerZakh]

It really depends what you're looking for. All of these are considered 'good'.

[@atariastinus]

Hey! I bought Citadelum off your link. I was looking at it recently. Another quirky builder which isn't really a city builder is Tiny Glade. I haven't bought it myself but if you dig the aesthetics of city building, it's a creative little mini house builder/decorator. It would be cool if you could build entire cities with this level of detail.

[@ravenroc1784]

I loved pioneers of Pagonia! I did not like the deities in Citidelum. They require too much and are mostly useless except to give flavor and annoyance. I hope you play MEMORIAPOLIS one day I trust your reviews! I do not like the romances in Fabledom either.

[@snortymcsnortface]

Please give Songs of Syx some love when it goes 1.0

[@GamerZakh]

I might, it's just not here because it's more colony sim than city builder.

[@qasderfful]

Don't take it to heart, but it's a bit weird that you've shown four already playable Early Access citybuilders in the intro and didn't feature them in the video proper. Two of those are my top pics BTW, Foundation and Farthest Frontier.

[@GamerZakh]

Yes that's a very specific decision to do. They aren't 'new'. Foundation has been in early access for half a decade. I've listed it for years. They even sponsored a short playthrough on this channel. It's really hard to justify it as 'new' even if it did actually fully release this year.

[@qasderfful]

@@GamerZakh I'm getting old it seems, if I saw something's announcement in my lifetime and it wasn't made obsolete by something newer later, then it's forever "new" in my mind 😅

[@DaniTheHero]

No Farthest Frontier?

[@GamerZakh]

Shown in the intro because it's a long early access game, so not 'new' anymore.

[@smiskowiak]

Does anyone else think New Cycle is Frostpunk without the freezing? They look really similar.

[@GamerZakh]

There's definitely some inspiration taken.

[@rolandbuysse9374]

I wouldn't call Terrascape a city builder since there's no city management of any kind. It's a pure puzzle and the city aspect is only to improve the aesthetic.

[@MexxSuspiria]

you build .. a ... city. There is no "management" in the video title ✌

[@Gfoot1]

Interesting list, time to update my steam wishlist 😁 Is Tiny Glade too small scale for this list? Or too casual? I am seeing a lot of talk about that one.

[@GamerZakh]

Thanks! Tiny Glade is blowing up but doesn't count as a 'city builder' by most people's understandings.

[@Gfoot1]

Yeah, fair enough. I've seen someone build a whole town in it, but that does seem to be the exception.

[@wtf1992lynx]

This is also one of my favorite game genres, but unfortunately imho, 90% of them are crap in the building department. Foundation so far has been the only city builder with modular building of monuments, no grid, and mostly organic. It might not be the bees knees when it comes to managing but its by far the best looking one (Not talking about graphics).

[@sanderkiki]

Against the Storm was a gem i didn't know i needed in my life, roguelite elements made it extremely addicting and charming style is hard to pass on. On the other note Laysara was a real disappointment, it failed to capture spirit of older city builders and had some very unfun and annoying mechanics...

[@chetranqui]

Wow... that might be the loudest volume I've found on KZbin. Talk about a terrible way to wake up.

[@GamerZakh]

Loudest? I have over 2000 videos at this level over the last 12 years and my videos are not even at peak volume which is where many people put it. Do you have 'Stable Volume' on? KZbin has been messing with volumes on their end for viewers.

[@chetranqui]

Never heard of Stable Volume before - looks like it's on by default on the web. Doesn't change the volume for this or another channel today, though. I was just comparing volume with what I'm accustomed to via Hulu, Netflix, Amazon Prime, and Disney+. On my surround sound system I run those at 45-60 out of 100 for typical every-day volume. For this video I had to swing that slider down to 18-25/100. Kinda blew me out. Was pretty shocking 10 minutes after waking up, is all. 😛 Great video, btw. Two recommendations in particular caught my attention and got a wishlist on Steam from me. Appreciate it. o7

[@renegadecrew3740]

Strange to comment about that since it's a you issue, and you make it sound like an issue the creator made

[@kjellduteweert9262]

Cities Skylines 2 is not in full release. I say it is early access. Also, there is so much stuff you have in the previous game that you don't have in this one.

[@WauWsy]

I still dont understand why their are not more many games like Black and white..

[@Batman___]

Poland can into City Builders.

[@proteinaggie]

Cities Skylines 2 doesn't belong on a list like this.

[@GamerZakh]

@@proteinaggie I wouldn't mention it if so many people weren't still playing it.

[@rjs69]

Cs2 was shameful

[@dangozdzik200]

Manor Lords was made by 1 polish guy - Grzegorz Styczeń...🤣🤣🤣

[@michaelwolejszo6445]

Well none of these city builders are accurate. In my city police set up road blocks daily and pull over people without any cause to check their vehicle over and if they want, force them to take breathalyzer tests. They also sit in unmarked vehicles all around the city with speed radar guns to issue tickets to people going 10 over the speed limit. If you ask me this extra cash resource gathering could should be implemented in more city building games.

[@ulycination978]

Paradox elevating Tlatoani ?!?# The only things that paradox can elevate are prices, number of dlc's, amount of bugs and the number of discontent gamers.

[@GamerZakh]

@@ulycination978 Devs are in an impossible situation. Sign with a publisher and "publisher bad". Do early access and "early access bad". Run a Kickstarter and "crowdfunding bad". Have no money to continue so cancel the game and "dev bad".

[@renegadecrew3740]

Talking about Cities Skylines 2 is totally fair, but it really doesnt belong on a list for recent games, even in the honorable mentions and even though they are still adding stuff to it.

[@GamerZakh]

By 'recent' I was willing to go back a year to the end of 2023, and a year and 2 months isn't that much of a stretch (and is actually still less than a year from today). It's also why it's a bonus mention.

[@miravlix]

How can Frostpunk 2 be the best city builder, when it is not a city builder...

[@GamerZakh]

Haha what is or isn't a city builder is always contended. City Builder is the 2nd highest user defined tag on Steam, people consider it so.

[@billancetv5069]

City skyline I should be first

[@GamerZakh]

@@billancetv5069 It would be if it was new but it's pretty old now.

[@Ramotttholl]

if you had Enough of Grid Based systems its 3. Memoriapolis 4. Pioneers of Pagonia 5. New Cycle 9. Manor Lords G. Cities Skylines 2. congrats on making a top 4.5

[@GamerZakh]

Well if this was an best new organic city-builder list then you'd be right lol, but that's not what this video is.

[@rodh1404]

I think Dawnmaker probably deserves a mention. It's a very casual city builder, you could even call it a city-puzzler using cards. It's a nice way to while away a few hours, IMO.

[@ghostlightx9005]

I know you said it in the video, but I feel Terrascape should not be on the list. It is a card/puzzle game. It could have had any skin on it but they chose a city builder skin. For the record, I hated it.

[@GamerZakh]

Thanks for the feedback!

[@Shamuss727]

Somthing that should be said about Manor Lords and its pace. ONE PERSON is making that game, and he continues to be the solo dev on the project.

[@EdzCreationz]

No, he is not solo anymore

[@aeeeda]

frostpunk 2 was nothing but a disappointment for me. refunded after preordering the deluxe

[@junechevalier]

Why?? I’ve been wanting to get it but I haven’t had the chance to watch or read any review yet

[@aeeeda]

@@junechevalier they replaced building with auto generated hexagon blobs that really mess with my ocd. most of the time is spent waiting on heat stamps(new game currency) to generate so you can do anything. there’s no feeling attached to the game anymore. more like an excel spreadsheet set in the frost.

[@MarkMonforti]

I miss impressions even detroit

[@astingilbert582]

To be honest I was a bit disappointed with Citadelum. It's a decent game, but far from good. In my opinion Caesar 3 did battles better than this new game. Roman soldiers are too weak, The campaing is short (But they did release the mission editor at launch). Some crucial resources are missing. (Oil and marble for example. Romans loved oil and marble but you can't produce them only buy them.)

[@anglosaxon5874]

CS2 still has less players than the original on daily basis [by over 3k].

[@GamerZakh]

That's true of every Civilization release since Civ 4. Civ 5 took 2 years to overtake Civ 4. Civ 6 took 2 years to overtake Civ 5. CS2 has only been out for 1 year at this point. Plus by over 3K depends on the timing. Yesterday, at one point CS2 had 6.8K players while CS1 had 7.8K. Not that big a gap really but of course it fluctuates. Most games with 50% rating on Steam are dead. The fact that it can still regularly hit 10K concurrent on Steam is pretty crazy considering that rating. Everyone is just looking at things short term. I've been doing this for over a decade. I listed NMS through its release, 'death', and rise. Paradox cancelled Life By You and consolidated around CS2, come back in a year and judge it again then.

[@brianbrunt3636]

ARA was awful. Let's hope for better next year

[@froschntube]

TinyGlade? 😎

[@Richoracle]

3rd!

[@qwe5qwe566]

Manor Lords is imho the most overhyped game with very good visuals but very shallow gameplay and badly designed core mechanics (market, families, logistics) that only sells for visuals and promises and little bit of fairy tale of one guy doing it all which is border line false advertising.

[@ezpeezee5368]

all paid.... do you have free to play games like this ?

[@GamerZakh]

@@ezpeezee5368 Free city builders tend to be mobile games but some have come to PC: kzbin.info/www/bejne/faOyoJqbqs6NZpY

[@susangoaway]

21:50 I mean, you can defend it. But it already failed. It released in an unacceptable state. And yes, I treat all games like that. It is an unacceptable practice. Even Early Access is already a questionable practice, but at least there it does say what it is. Also Cities Skylines has more concurrent players than its sequel. Though I do wonder whether they have finally fixed the performance.

[@GamerZakh]

Thing is I'm not defending it, I'm just saying what is happening. 10K concurrent players puts it pretty high on Steam charts and it's got almost as many players as CS1. CS1 still has more but it's close, and that would be true of every Civ release too. Civ 6 took 2 years to overtake Civ 5. Civ 5 took 2 years to overtake Civ 4. CS2 has only been out for 1 year at this point and yesterday it was about 6,800 playing CS2 and 7,800 playing CS1, like it's not a big gap. You can say it failed, but it's like continuing to say NMS failed. And yeah I agree that early access is always better. Just because a game is 'released' doesn't mean it's not 'early access'. NMS, Cyberpunk 2077, those were early access games but weren't honest about it.

[@susangoaway]

@@GamerZakh NMS did fail as well. CP77 was even worse. And released does mean that the game is finished and considered 'good enough' to provide an experience that fullfills the expectations that it has made. The 1.0 version should include everything that was supposed to be included. I can see an excuse being made for early access, as I've written. But when the game is sold as a full and released game, then it should be treated that way, the actual state does not matter. You do not see a restaurant giving you ingredients for the meal you have ordered either and tell you to come back tomorrow if you want it to have it cooked. It is a huge problem that this kind of practice has been normalized to such an extent, similarly as to microtransactions, paid mods and cutting games up into DLCs. Call it old-fashioned, but it is how things should be and how they should be treated. When it comes to playerocunt, I have mentioned it because CS2 was simply a desaster with lots of missing features and absolutely abysmal performance. And there isn't much you can do wrong in a citybuilder, in fact CS2 did do a lot of extremely good things. But the alpha status release ruined it. The opportunistic release of CS that exploited the absolute failure that was SC5 probably made them think it would be okay to develop it in a similar way. I've been cirtical of the first one as well, considering it didn't even have tunnels.

[@GamerZakh]

@@susangoaway Yeah, so what this means is by what you call 'failed' can include some of the most financially successful, highly rated, most popular, most played games ever. That's fine, it's just we should be clear on what your criteria for success and failure is because when other people read it they can get confused. My criteria is different, I'm sure you can understand that. The reason why I say a game releasing doesn't mean it's not 'early access' is because that's a warning. SO many people argue that 'early access' shouldn't exist, but they forget that it exists whether there's a label for it or not. It's a warning to people who blindly trust 'released' and think they'll always get a good game if it's 'released'. I never said to not judge a 'released' game as 'released'. Sometimes you get Baldur's Gate 3 with early access, which is required to avoid publisher interference. Other times you get Cities Skylines 2 rushed out by the publisher while it's still in an early access state but they want to mislead and label it 'released' instead. My point is that there are good games and bad games, regardless of how they're labelled and that we shouldn't just trust labels or the lack of them.

[@susangoaway]

@@GamerZakh It can, yes. And I can. My main point in this is just that many people are too tolerant of unfinished games. Ever since online platforms have become more popular this problem has been intensifying. I had a hunch that you might mean that, though was not sure. It is good practice nowadays to not buy games before trying them, and especially when they were just released, especially again, by tripleA studios, and even smaller ones too. People should certainly expect to get a good game on release. This expectation should be kept up and those who cannot fullfill that should not be excused for it. Even if they were to fix it later on. Yes, there are games of different quality. Though what's most worrying nowadays is how suddenly games can change, where they do not resemble the product you've actually bought anymore, despite being released. And I am not talking about better or worse, just different, which is also a bad practice. One big example that comes to my mind in regards to this is minecraft actually... which incidentally was one of the largest 'early access' games as well. But that's a whole another can of worms. But well, people should be disappointed, outraged and angry if they buy a game that promised something, but doesn't fullfill these promises at release, at its official full version. In the end it is still the customer's job to get the information required for the decision they make.