I’ve never been a quarterback but this video got me throwing a million times better with the friends. Slinging that rock and powerful spirals. Awesome
@firstdowntraining4 жыл бұрын
Phillip Quach glad to hear! Appreciate you man 💯
@jtmoney48854 жыл бұрын
Watching drew Bree’s through his drop backs, eye discipline and footwork is a work of art
@firstdowntraining4 жыл бұрын
Agreed, could watch all day
@farismohamedain78214 жыл бұрын
This actually is the best and most informational video I've ever watched, this helped me alot man
@firstdowntraining4 жыл бұрын
Glad to hear! Really glad it helped you
@estabianwalker50153 жыл бұрын
An you still can’t throw
@gronkwild46323 жыл бұрын
@@estabianwalker5015 what?
@JavierLongboard2 жыл бұрын
Saaaame
@robertmosher74184 жыл бұрын
To me, Drew Brees has the best mechanics and I really like how his elbow is above his eye when he begins his release. He throws "taller" than any other QB in the NFL. I am think he does it because he is 5'11".
@firstdowntraining4 жыл бұрын
Robert Mosher I personally have to agree with you. Big Drew Brees guy and with the guys that I coach I am always showing Brees film. This might come off wrong but I think he’s one of the least talented QBs in the league when it comes down to pure natural ability. Everything he does is a product of work ethic and playing the position perfect. Which is why I think he goes down as one of the greatest of all time
@robertmosher74184 жыл бұрын
@@firstdowntraining I agree with you on his being average in talent, when comparing him to other NFL QBs, though very talented compared to us mere mortals. I do think that there is a way to coach throwing mechanics in which he doesn't make opposite Ls. If when they begin their backwards lean to begin engaging the core and bring the ball to the loading phase, the maintain acute angles in both arms an he pushes the ball all the way back with his non throwing hand it will have him make a loop with his throwing shoulder as he begins firing his core and the ball rises it will naturally point to five o'clock and maintain the acute angle. His left arm will follow up until his left hand reaches roughly the top of his right shoulder. In order to bring the ball around to throw it forward the QB must extend his right arm during the hip flexion forward as he is pushing through the ground. This enables his arm to extend up far enough to ensure the elbow is above the eye and the ball is chasing the hips. As his hips move forward his left elbow is driven towards his left foot. This does a few things that I feel are important. It keeps his levers short, maintains balance in his upper limbs, allows his left side abdominal muscles to add more to rotational power, allows for only one moving joint in his throwing arm...his shoulder, keeps him from worrying about his arm level and from forearm extension that slows down the movement and allows him to focus on one short, smooth and continuous loop. Simplifying the upper body movement helps them to be able to work on the lower body movement more and increases their overall speed in the release of the ball, power behind it and as you know a shorter stroke is a more accurate throw. We are probably the pass heaviest high school in the state and we have produced several division one QBs and we have more on the way out. Trying to be humble about the system. However, I don't think I am very far off from what you teach and coach. Wide base, seated into his stance with 60-40 distribution, back foot closed, front toe and hip slightly open. The actual upper body mechanics are a matter of where he is when he gets to you and what you know how to coach and have driven results with. All this is completely different from what I learned growing up.
@clark25012 жыл бұрын
@@firstdowntraining I know this comment is old, but I completely agree with the talent part of Brees. Dude accomplished what he did through mostly just sheer effort. Imagine if he had the talent of a guy like Rodgers. He might be untouchable in terms of numbers he would’ve put up.
@logicaldude36112 жыл бұрын
Brees really did well in increasing his arm strength through mechanics. He was considered to have a weak arm coming out of college. It was so bad that when he hurt his shoulder in San Deigo, the Dolphins passed up on him and signed Daunte Culpepper instead. People were like, "If Brees' arm was already that weak, what is a bad shoulder injury going to do to him?" But somehow it seemed like it kept getting stronger. Brady is guy who looked like his arm strength never declined because he really worked on his mechanics. Shows how important it is if you can't tell the difference in his arm strength at 24 and at 44.
@firstdowntraining2 жыл бұрын
No doubt! I’m really glad you noticed that. It comes down to mainly everything we have discussed in this video so I appreciate the insight
@monkeyahh13434 жыл бұрын
Mike vick has the most beautiful throwing mechanics
@firstdowntraining4 жыл бұрын
Best lefty to do it
@W_L-mb9no3 жыл бұрын
@@firstdowntraining Steve Young?
@kevinthomas29063 жыл бұрын
@@W_L-mb9no Mark Brunell?
@nerptheepic3 жыл бұрын
@@kevinthomas2906 compared to steve young? No
@Byronb7163 жыл бұрын
To bad his accuracy was garbage
@logicaldude36112 жыл бұрын
I always loved watching Kurt Warner. Something about his motion was different. Really compact, almost like he was slouching or something.
@firstdowntraining2 жыл бұрын
No doubt? I enjoy watching him
@damnedpeas99883 жыл бұрын
I always loved Philip Rivers' arm motion simply because it's so weird but somehow it still works. Would be interesting to analyze it.
@firstdowntraining3 жыл бұрын
Absolutely if you look up “Phillip rivers throwing mechanics” a video of mine will show and you can check it out!
@Nurdery2 ай бұрын
I am a recent starter in the WB position and has got me like 5 steps back on track, love you man❤
@firstdowntraining2 ай бұрын
Awesome to hear man- thank you so much for watching! Really grateful for the support
@Nurdery2 ай бұрын
@@firstdowntraining I said WB I did mean QB🫢
@Nurdery2 ай бұрын
@@firstdowntraining awesome dude I have watched your videos for a few months now and I would be stuck where I started without them❤️
@isiahwalker3490 Жыл бұрын
I've always thrown dots and dimes but stopped practicing so I got worse this video helped me get back in rhythm
@firstdowntraining Жыл бұрын
Awesome to hear man, glad this could help!
@Lorien-wl9th5 ай бұрын
Thank you for all the tips it has helped me get better at WR
@tati-anaroseee43163 жыл бұрын
Man this video just helped a lot I had a really good arm throwing motion but my base was iffy before I watched this and now I'm way more accurate and I can get the ball a good 50+ yards rather than the barely 40 ty so much🔥
@firstdowntraining3 жыл бұрын
No problem man! Super glad the video helped
@juliusrandle15804 жыл бұрын
Thank you I am a quarterback this is my first year being one and I need to get better at everytging
@firstdowntraining4 жыл бұрын
Yessir! Glad this video could help you out 💯
@haydenkoehler73424 жыл бұрын
I love the in-depth look into several qbs because it shows just how important these mechanics are because these pro qbs do them in all their throws
@firstdowntraining4 жыл бұрын
Hayden Koehler yessir they all throw different but have some key similarities
@tarltonc4 жыл бұрын
Great video. Would love to see a breakdown of Terry Bradshaw's mechanics. He had an unusual grip, but also one of the strongest arms of all time. Speaking of strong arms, Brett Favre would be great to see too.
@firstdowntraining4 жыл бұрын
Appreciate it! Thank you for the feedback I did one on Brett Favre if you want to checkout our QB playlist and I can definitely do one on Bradshaw. Thanks again
@MichaelMonsanto3 жыл бұрын
This is literally high level coaching video breaks downs. Attention to detail is presented and displayed in the coaching during this video.
@firstdowntraining3 жыл бұрын
Appreciate that man thank you!
@qbfilmroom72024 жыл бұрын
Drew Brees! Love the video . So much detail!!!
@firstdowntraining4 жыл бұрын
Appreciate that man! Super glad it gave you some value
@adambrazier15654 жыл бұрын
murray on the up AZ
@cwallace83543 жыл бұрын
Some good film, nice to be back in the ‘QB film room’ watching this. I’d say the Top 3 playing 2021... 🥇Tied Brady & Rodgers - 🥈Mahomes. All Time Top 3? Marino-Vick- & Brees 😬 As a 5’11QB myself, Vick and Brees had to adjust to hit throwing lanes, high release point or off platform, Brees & Vick always seemed to ‘throw a good ball’ regardless of the situation. Being a 6’5”🌲(Marino,Big Ben, Manning, most other NFL QBs) has its pros and cons, but Vick and Brees -6” to everyone and still being surgical makes them in my ☝🏼3 All Time.
@cwallace83543 жыл бұрын
Sorry about my long comments everytime. My ole QB⚙️ s in my 🧠 turning knocking of the dust with these videos and questions. 🤣
@firstdowntraining3 жыл бұрын
Appreciate you man! Thanks for the comment
@knowledgeuntamed9177 Жыл бұрын
Oh Brock Purdy has the best footwork i ever seen, Ever!!!
@specm_104 жыл бұрын
rodgers never has his left hand up,and he might still honestly have the best spiral in the nfl
@coltonwestran19294 жыл бұрын
Tom Brady. Conservative, but wonderful form for having a long career and preventing shoulder injury. I have not seen any mechanics I'd rather have than Tom Brady's. Drew Brees, and Patrick Mahomes do some things well. But I think Tom's mechanics (even more preferable to me than Pat's) will keep him healthier longer. And that is the most important thing. I find Tom's mechanics to be the most efficient while preventing injury to the shoulder and arm. And that is the most important reason to work on mechanics in the first place.
@ChefofWar333 жыл бұрын
Brees has comparable form to Brady. Mahomes has absolutely terrible form. Hes just talented Any kid that trys to copy Mahomes is gonna suck really bad.
@colenovak51074 жыл бұрын
Warren Moon always threw a tight spiral
@Cam123694 жыл бұрын
By far drew brees, mechanically sound, quick, tight spiral
@ChefofWar333 жыл бұрын
Brady is comparable.
@faithfamilyfootball1234 жыл бұрын
Great Breakdown Big Dog!
@firstdowntraining4 жыл бұрын
FaithFamilyFootball thank you so much really appreciate it. Glad it gave you value
@theChadRamroq5 жыл бұрын
Thank you for another great video... you were talking about Baker and Tom pivoting off that back foot, but also talking about the others driving off the inside of the foot instead...which one will give you the most power? I have tried both, kinda like “squishing the bug” pivoting and driving off too, just want to get the most into my throws
@firstdowntraining5 жыл бұрын
MC Adams I think the answer is both, let me explain. Baker and Tom both drive off the back foot, their weight is on the inside as you can see so that can be taken as “driving” and the pivot is to get their hips into it. In the last Clip you watch Wentz and how he gets his hips into the throw but he doesn’t pivot, it’s more of a comfort thing but everyone does both
@theChadRamroq5 жыл бұрын
@@firstdowntrainingOh ok, I wasnt sure if I needed to emphasize the pivot or just drive hard, but if you say everyone does both, then I'll just keep driving hard off that inside back foot
@davidwhite62464 жыл бұрын
I was wondering if you could send me your gmail cause I am a quarterback and ive been watching your videos and I wanted to send you a clip of me throwing a football and if you could can you break it down so I can see what I need to work on. (Also I wouldnt mind you posting it on your channel to)
@alexhess10044 жыл бұрын
Could you put joe Montana on there he had one of the best releases.
@firstdowntraining4 жыл бұрын
alex hess if I could re edit the video I would
@ChefofWar333 жыл бұрын
Nah. He didnt have the best release. Dan Marino did.
@keith8554 Жыл бұрын
Petyon.Manning is perfect. Also Dan Marino had the best pocket footwork
@deke.01393 жыл бұрын
So often we remember Namath’s swagger/playboy imagery w/the furs, shades and ladies....but he could flat spin it too. Exceptional release, Marino before Marino.
@firstdowntraining3 жыл бұрын
No doubt! Could do it all
@Iam.camdencook3 жыл бұрын
Thank you for posting this man
@firstdowntraining3 жыл бұрын
No problem man hope this helps!
@Iam.camdencook3 жыл бұрын
@@firstdowntraining it did imma be watching this video like every day
@jasonhouck45514 жыл бұрын
Drew Brees EASILY
@firstdowntraining4 жыл бұрын
Jason Houck appreciate the comment man
@ate8104 жыл бұрын
Terry Bradshaw had a great form too
@firstdowntraining4 жыл бұрын
Antont Tayloe agreed
@AB__84-s3 жыл бұрын
Wish i had a big open area to throw all day
@davidwhite62464 жыл бұрын
Drew Brees has the best throwing form
@firstdowntraining4 жыл бұрын
David White agreed!
@nickblake16004 жыл бұрын
He is the most accurate too
@vgb13284 жыл бұрын
Bradys throwing mechanics is fantastic..i see now why he has been playing so long without injury to his shoulders..he takes a much shorter stride and generating a powerful torque through his hips..thats why he never looks like hes throwing hard..he generates through back leg and hips...its a beautiful thing to watch...
@vgb13284 жыл бұрын
And unlike brees whos mechanics are breaking down brady can still throw 50 and 60 yard ropes...
@davidwhite62464 жыл бұрын
@@vgb1328 yep😂😂
@Lorien-wl9th5 ай бұрын
I personally use a mix of Russel Wilson and drew brees cause I’m shorter but I think Payton manning has the best throwing motion
@firstdowntraining5 ай бұрын
No doubt, thank you for watching!
@iaretimauga39952 жыл бұрын
Very similar to Joe Louis cross punch
@gioborges12264 жыл бұрын
Seriously, great video.
@firstdowntraining4 жыл бұрын
Gio Borges appreciate you man, glad it gave you some value! I appreciate the comment 💯
@matthewlucero73264 жыл бұрын
What about Troy Aikman he could thread the needle best arm I’ve seen to throw in tight spots he did have an unusual grip and couldn’t throw in the rain but would be a good vid to watch
@firstdowntraining4 жыл бұрын
Absolutely man I can definitely do one on him
@matthewlucero73264 жыл бұрын
Thank you, maybe can I send you some videos of me throwing and can you break it down and tell me how I can improve
@kevinkelly85654 жыл бұрын
awesome video. give a lot of coaching coaching points. great video
@firstdowntraining4 жыл бұрын
Kevin Kelly thank you man really appreciate that, glad it gave you some value
@dudeskidude83764 жыл бұрын
Where was this video when I was in high schoooooool!
@firstdowntraining4 жыл бұрын
transcendence 😂appreciate you man
@matthewtrevino99562 жыл бұрын
I’ve always was bad at throwing and blamed it on me not being strong enough but now I know it’s because I’m not throwing right
@firstdowntraining2 жыл бұрын
Yessir hope this video could help!
@matthewtrevino99562 жыл бұрын
@@firstdowntraining It Sure did thanks a lot! Hands down best video!!
@chrisorton48644 жыл бұрын
Thank you for this!
@firstdowntraining4 жыл бұрын
No problem man hope it gave you some value 💯
@benframe85813 жыл бұрын
This was a fantastic video
@firstdowntraining3 жыл бұрын
appreciate you man thank you!
@DN-rm1ib2 жыл бұрын
Excellent video!!!!!!!
@firstdowntraining2 жыл бұрын
Appreciate that man thank you very much!
@jukotrial2962 жыл бұрын
Drew Brees and Aaron Rodgers both have the best Mechanics and the prettiest passes in my opinion
@firstdowntraining2 жыл бұрын
No doubt!
@shaunmaples69753 жыл бұрын
What do I do if I keep throwing my elbow out?
@firstdowntraining3 жыл бұрын
Ice and make sure you do a proper warm up before you throw. Before I attached a proper rotator cuff warm up we offer www.firstdowntraining.com/online-store/QB-Arm-Care-Advanced-Warm-Up-Routine-p272376084
@chillyproductions48512 жыл бұрын
Great vid
@firstdowntraining2 жыл бұрын
Appreciate that! Thank you for the support
@gado89294 жыл бұрын
Rodgers with that jump hop throw easily!
@firstdowntraining4 жыл бұрын
Silky Smooth
@slg4629 Жыл бұрын
I got a rod as best Mechanics or drew brees
@ZMN_2163 жыл бұрын
Yea its by far Drew Brees.
@ronsinson198911 ай бұрын
Matt Hasselbeck
@colekursar32152 жыл бұрын
@ First down training who was better throwing mechanics Aaron Rodgers or Tom Brady
@firstdowntraining2 жыл бұрын
I personally think Brady- I think there is a science to his motion. Some of the stuff Rodgers does is very hard to teach
@colekursar32152 жыл бұрын
@@firstdowntraining thank you
@colekursar32152 жыл бұрын
@@firstdowntraining which quarterback do you think has the best throwing motion?
@nicolasbernardini34134 жыл бұрын
I always pull my throws to the right (and the ball seems to slip out of my hands) I have a lot of arm strength but it seems to work against me since my hands can't grip the ball well and it slips and I routinely lob the ball off to the right (I'm right handed) any suggestions
@firstdowntraining4 жыл бұрын
Try to work on grip strength and don’t open up your front shoulder too soon in the motion try to keep your front hand somewhere by your face or collar bone when you throw
@nicolasbernardini34134 жыл бұрын
@@firstdowntraining WOW. The grip strength I figured but the bit about my front shoulder COMPLETELY closed my body and let me shoot it. It no longer feels like it's falling out of my hand and now feels like I'm shooting it. Great advice
@a.g.18323 жыл бұрын
hey coach, you got any drills for toss and handoffs?
@firstdowntraining3 жыл бұрын
I will make some!
@washi82673 жыл бұрын
Why does the Brady breakdown look like a madden cut scene
@jamierodgers37443 жыл бұрын
Great video
@firstdowntraining3 жыл бұрын
Thank you man appreciate you!
@slimbucketchimp53 жыл бұрын
All the scoops! This is an informational ice cream cone with aaallllll the scoops! 👌👌👌
@firstdowntraining3 жыл бұрын
Appreciate you man! Glad the video gave you some value
@Jax.022 жыл бұрын
Ok let’s see this
@dektran48434 жыл бұрын
dan marino's mechanics
@firstdowntraining4 жыл бұрын
DEK TRAN will definitely make a video on him
@ImprovingAbility Жыл бұрын
SpaceX rocket ships got their blueprints from Kyler Murray's mechanics, clear as day
@bertrandzhu94394 жыл бұрын
Great video!
@firstdowntraining4 жыл бұрын
Bertrand Zhu thank you man really appreciate that
@bertrandzhu94394 жыл бұрын
@@firstdowntraining Really helped me work on my QB mechanics especially with that Drew Brees breakdown. Personally I think that Baker Mayfield has the best QB mechanics based on the amount of torque and force he can put behind the football.
@firstdowntraining4 жыл бұрын
Bertrand Zhu his mechanics are clean. I don’t think he gets enough credit for them
@Cormac-c5p2 ай бұрын
I don’t understand how my hip brings the ball through
@firstdowntraining2 ай бұрын
I’ll make a video clarifying this- thank you for the feedback!
@Cormac-c5p2 ай бұрын
@@firstdowntraining do u have an eta for the video
@notfromthisworld75583 жыл бұрын
Wow what a great video
@firstdowntraining3 жыл бұрын
Appreciate you man! Glad it gave you some value
@ra1dxpuls3rc104 жыл бұрын
kyler murray
@joeysmith57674 жыл бұрын
That point about throwing with only the arm for 20 years is why Mahomes is going to have to change if he wants to play as long as Brady
@firstdowntraining4 жыл бұрын
I don’t think he only throws with his arm. Watch a couple of my breakdowns on him. He has a lot mor rotational and ground force than you think
@ChefofWar333 жыл бұрын
His form is lowkey trash. You cant teach what Mahomes does. He was just born good.
@joeysmith57673 жыл бұрын
@@ChefofWar33 who's form is lowkey trash?
@ChefofWar333 жыл бұрын
@@joeysmith5767 Mahomes
@joeysmith57673 жыл бұрын
@@ChefofWar33 yeah. I just think his weapons make him that good. I mean look at what happens when his weapons suck(The Superbowl)
@yvesjean-baptiste5288 Жыл бұрын
Hands down Mike Vick
@Andrew-sx2sp4 жыл бұрын
Russel wilson
@firstdowntraining4 жыл бұрын
💯💯💯
@leonardyoung17234 жыл бұрын
Do rg3
@firstdowntraining4 жыл бұрын
Will do appreciate the feedback
@laruetisby33484 жыл бұрын
Brees
@Lorien-wl9th5 ай бұрын
And QB
@firstdowntraining5 ай бұрын
Awesome to hear man, thank you for watching the content!
@chodysseus4203 жыл бұрын
Aaron Rodgers has the best throwing motion, tony romos was nice too. Matt Staffords is dirty af as well
@firstdowntraining3 жыл бұрын
I agree I like Rodgers
@Rogersrecycling4 жыл бұрын
Brees and Brady
@firstdowntraining4 жыл бұрын
Agreed!
@treyhuggins98904 жыл бұрын
1. tom brady 2. aaron rodgers 3. patrick mahomes
@firstdowntraining4 жыл бұрын
💯💯💯
@joeysmith57674 жыл бұрын
Brees and Rodgers are pretty even
@cut43224 жыл бұрын
Drew brees
@med_head Жыл бұрын
Why does it look like you're breaking down madden footage? 😅
@Ramiz1123 жыл бұрын
Justin Herbert is the chosen one.
@Somnambulist31304 жыл бұрын
Uncle Rico. No Contest.
@lnfarms19784 жыл бұрын
Tom Brady
@The_Rubberband_Man4 жыл бұрын
I was wounding how I could get more of a deep ball if I just need more arm strength or mechanics. Thanks
@firstdowntraining4 жыл бұрын
I would say it’s a combination of both! Mechanics and developing your leg strength/ core strength for ground force and torque
@yoboykobe61264 жыл бұрын
Drew Brees has the best mechanics
@firstdowntraining4 жыл бұрын
Very clean motion!
@TAGDIESEL4 жыл бұрын
I’d like to see a release speed comparison from Kyler Murray’s motion to tebows. The wind up is ridiculous
@firstdowntraining4 жыл бұрын
Trever Gill I can tell you Kylers is a lot quicker. Kylers motion has gotten longer as the season progresses but he is so quick twitch. Tebow did not have that quick twitch.
@TAGDIESEL4 жыл бұрын
Yeh , watching the vid I was laughing a bit at the baseball player comments . In my experience , I could always spot a prior baseball player chucking the football . The arms mostly seem to stay low and come back more than the usual football qb
@firstdowntraining4 жыл бұрын
Trever Gill yeah I used to pitch before I played QB and it’s a completely different motion. Appreciate the comments man
@TAGDIESEL4 жыл бұрын
Yeah for sure man. Keep up the videos. Love these types
@bbfreak83673 жыл бұрын
Phillip Rivers disagrees /s
@OwenBacchieri Жыл бұрын
Brady
@cliffeobanner72233 жыл бұрын
Patrick Mahomes is my favorite Quarterback
@alexandergonsalez5033 жыл бұрын
Aaron Rodgers has the most beautiful throwing mechanics n the NFL
@firstdowntraining3 жыл бұрын
Easily
@alexandergonsalez5033 жыл бұрын
Fr tho
@j_b27114 жыл бұрын
Aaron Rodgers
@DavS827 Жыл бұрын
Do Tim Tebow. Why was he so bad?
@firstdowntraining Жыл бұрын
That would be a great video, I love Tebow too much to hate on him though 😂
@DavS827 Жыл бұрын
@@firstdowntraining Me too. But I have always been mystified by how one of the greatest quarterbacks in college football history was so below average in the NFL simply due to his throwing mechanics. It seemed like such a small, fixable thing. But, then again, I know next to nothing about such things…
@TheTribe-dc4tt3 жыл бұрын
Aaron rodgers
@kenxiong68302 жыл бұрын
Best throwing mechanic is Tim Tebow lol
@Z-Bow4 жыл бұрын
I LOVE Wentz. If he was on a better O line team he would be a superbowl QB.
@chrisjohnson81314 жыл бұрын
Tom is the best qb in the NFL....
@firstdowntraining4 жыл бұрын
Chris Johnson accumulative, 100% agree with you I think all time
@greengreen23824 жыл бұрын
First Down Training Tom Brady is the greatest player of all time getting his 7th ring will solidify it
@firstdowntraining4 жыл бұрын
Hamal Green agreed
@lf3rd2104 жыл бұрын
Aaron Rodgers all day
@firstdowntraining4 жыл бұрын
Love the way he throws
@johanneshies10333 жыл бұрын
Best Mechanic has Mahomes
@reversegamer4 жыл бұрын
Phillip Rivers mechanics 10/10
@ssj4gogeta774 жыл бұрын
lol
@nadaesfacil3 жыл бұрын
Brady, Arod, Manning, Brees in his prime
@firstdowntraining3 жыл бұрын
Yessir 💯
@jamierodgers37443 жыл бұрын
Jared Goff has unreal mechanics (when he’s not blitzed lol)
@tylerfrederick99314 жыл бұрын
Kyle murray has the best throwing form
@firstdowntraining4 жыл бұрын
definitely one of the quicker releases in the league
@mahitotheburrito1584 жыл бұрын
pat mahomes
@firstdowntraining4 жыл бұрын
💯💯
@stanxxx70694 жыл бұрын
The disgusting meat legally realise because croissant traditionally replace from a gleaming look. measly, murky george