The Best Shimano Power Meter Pedal? Favero Assioma DUO-Shi Power Meter Review

[@PeakTorque]

Please do like and sub if you find this helpful. Of course there will be a much longer term review after they've had a right hammering in all conditions, which any pedal should tolerate.

[@Hambini]

I've liked and subscribed!!

[@PeakTorque]

I pay you enough

[@SignorLuigi]

@@Hambini 🤣🤣🤣

[@SignorLuigi]

@@PeakTorque 🤣🤣🤣

[@Hambini]

@@PeakTorque You are not the one who has to deal with irate CEOs!

[@ChinaCycling]

James May living up to his reputation.

[@sinabooeshaghi5919]

This video was incredibly well made- from the detailed explanation of power-meter physics to the clear explanation of torque/cadence profiles. Thank you for putting the time and effort into making it.

[@StephenGibsonify]

Your video made me realise i had not updated the crank length in the app. This might explain the consistent difference between indoor trainer and outdoor pedals! 🤯

[@iammikeDOTorg]

If your Faveros are like mine, they reset that setting at random times anyway. I’ve set mine properly well over a dozen times, checked during this video, yep, wrong.

[@michwoz]

@@iammikeDOTorg Your bike computer may be doing that, not pedals. Check your crank length settings in bike computer (or Wahoo app if you use it).

[@iammikeDOTorg]

@@michwoz Will do. I ride outside very infrequently, but frequently enough that could be the problem.

[@larrymcgoldrick3471]

Seems to me most people have too narrow a pedal stance on a road bike as is. I personally run 16mm Ti pedal spacers each side. Still coming no where near the width of my hybrid road gravel bike. Thanks for the in depth look at these, because I like the no BS version. 😉☺

[@kenmoum162]

Although I'm not currently in the market for a power meter, the Q factor thing is totally not a problem for me. I ride SPS pedals with 20mm pedal extensions on both sides because my feet at a rest are like \ / and I have to put my cleats on crooked or my knee pain is horrible. The extensions let me do that without heel strikes on the crank (and I wear size 46 shoes as well.) The number of casual bikers I see (usually male) with similar problems and only half their foot on platform pedals is amazing.

[@sebastianmanriquez7376]

I think we all agree we are here for the nerdiness! Some people ride bikes and some people ride and understand (or want to) how they work. Great as always!

[@kna7lula]

Great video, Peak Torque, and confirms the generally good reviews of the Assiomas. I am running the Look Uno version since more than 4 years now and they have not let me down once in all that time. One thing that you could have mentioned is that they are rechargeable, so no production of coin or AAA batteries, and they hold the charge really well. Even after 4 years I only charge them once every 2 to 3 months and I am doing around 11k kms/y. Keep up the great work, Eckhard

[@donball370]

Great informative analysis with no marketer's spin. Finally, an explanation as to why pedal power meters have proven to be a challenge for manufacturers. Interesting observations concerning Q factor and cadence measurement. Best of all, increased confidence that Favero have a well designed unit, doing what it says it does on the packet. Thanks PT.

[@fnm441]

I previously had a pair of Powertap P1s, a really bulky design and I believe with the highest stack height of all the current powermeter pedal systems. The P2's follow the same design philosophy but shave some weight. They are reliable, at least according to the testing by GPlama & DC Rainmaker but Favero have knocked it out of the park with the Assiomas, the best powermeter pedal based system currently available. Also superior to spider or crank based systems giving true left/right measurements.

[@michaelmastell6778]

I have two sets of Favero pedals. I love mine. Very reliable, I’ve never had a dropout issue over three years of use. The values are precise from ride to ride. So even if the accuracy is off a bit the numbers are meaningful because that’s the only power meter I use outdoors. The pedaling dynamics are cool. I can’t say I really change anything but I have in the past had other athletes I was working with mention a twinge and we can go in to see a difference in L/R balance or power phase.

[@nicolasmoreau3434]

Nice to hear the increased Q factor actually helps you - i bought them back in April but it just didn't work out for my knees; went back to normal pedals and got myself a power meter in the crank. Cheers

[@nstrug]

Had the Look-compatible ones for a couple of years. No surprises in this video. One of the best cycling products out there.

[@SonnyDarvish]

Got my pair of Shi last month and have been very happy with it. Wider stance is great, my outer feet don't hurt anymore. Removed cadence sensor off my pedal. Now I'm properly training with power. Great to see more confirmation from your side as well!

[@11robotics]

Having bought and used them for a while, I have one major beef with their design: the single bearing + bushing solution for the axle - cartridge interface. After less than 500 km done mostly on the home trainer, they ended up developing a perceptible amount of play and started clicking during usage. Adding some grease on the axle-bushing interface did help with both, but it is just a temporary solution to a problem that should not exist in the first place. I am no stranger to such issues with other bearing + bushing based pedal systems, but they never occurred after such a low mileage. I do weigh some 87-88 kg, so that might also be a factor. Favero were nice enough to accept to repair them for free as they did claim that this issue is not normal after such a short time. They are dealing with it as we speak. I did however buy in the meantime the original, Look-compatible Favero Assioma Duo pedals and will be using them from now on and sell the Duo Shi ones when I get them back. Had I paid attention to the fact they have a single bearing instead of three (as the Assioma Duo pedals do), I would have gone for the latter without hesitating. Otherwise, they are both amazingly accurate, easy to use and very reasonably priced.

[@PeakTorque]

Interesting yes this is my concern too. However, the Duo-Shis contain two bearings, not a bearing and a bushing if I am not mistaken. They are however smaller than the original ultegra bearings so I assume have a lower load rating thus life expectancy. The Look Assiomas contain three bearings (two inboard next to eachother and a 6/13 bearing at the end).

[@11robotics]

@@PeakTorque I am 100% positive there is only one bearing (on the outer end, just behind that hex nut) and a nylon bushing on the inner end (just behind the sensor pod). Not only that, but the outer bearing cannot be easily removed from its aluminium casing, so you have to replace the entire cartridge with the ones Favero provide when the bearings go bad. The regular Duos have three bearings indeed, the outer one being similar to the one on the Duo Shi pedals while the inner ones are much thinner and placed side by side. On the upside, you can easily replace them with whatever brand of compatible bearings you prefer (SKF, NTN, etc.) without any fancy tools.

[@asldfkjgl]

@@11robotics are you saying it'd be more reliable to buy the regular and replace the pedal body and bearings?

[@11robotics]

@@asldfkjgl you cannot replace or adapt the pedal body and bearings on the regular Duo model other than with identical parts. They are not compatible with anything SPD-SL. Just buy them and use them as they are, with the Look cleats.

[@TorstenDemeyere]

I've had the same issue after 1 month of riding, also had a new pair. Not hearing anything similair with Look users.

[@baker2niner]

I've had an UNO (left side only) for 15 months and 3300mi on one bike. I read somewhere that there are 12(!) strain gauges in each, so 6x6 on the beam is probably correct(?). They have been very consistent (most important thing) and are a very well sorted out product, as you describe. They have been flawless in operation. I did buy just the "replacement" left side (right cannot be an UNO) and converted it fromSPD-SL to SPD (MTB - see KZbin videos) to save a few $. Until my TdF contract comes through, this setup will do.

[@alainpfammatter8224]

I have been using the Assioma Favero powermeter pedals for more than a year now and really like them. They just work and are easy to use.

[@Narcosis71]

I got a pair of these for my TCR. As a big bloke, I too have the cleat limit and heel rub issues, so agree that the stance change is a bonus. My wife - a teeny, tiny woman - has a set and hasn’t noticed any adverse impact on her stance.

[@juanpablojimenez2755]

Thanks for the in-depth review! Great video. Have been using Favero Duo for a couple of years now, have no complaints. Bought the duo as I have had two (2) left knee replacements. Left knee has become infected (again) and getting on the trainer and using the pedal metrics has helped me tremendously!

[@mumps5265]

Thanks for the video ! I'm sometimes using a Powertap rear wheel hub and Favero Assioma Duo pedals together. I've 1% difference about average power between the two systems on the road.

[@sherryfax]

Thank you for the video. Explanation is on point and the graphs were very well made, 1000% better than any paid program.

[@MrPilberg]

Great video. Very informative, I’ll be saving for a pair of these pedals for sure. Thanks PT!!

[@marekkrol5652]

I've had the original Assioma's since they came out in mid 2017. Can't say a word wrong about them & they have to be one of the best available power meters for a road bike. I've ridden over 30k km on them, although for vanity I switched to DUOs in early 2020. I'm not a small rider & put some decent watts down, the bearings are durable & pedal bodies haven't worn out. If something does happen you can get everything as a piece part (bearings, axle, pedal body). Interestingly Favero doesn't report offset to my Garmin head unit even though I assume it would need to calculate it.

[@stevengregg8619]

Same here, the pedals have had a couple of dings as well and survived no problem. Still very reliable and shift from bike to bike is so easy. Know plenty of people who have had issues with Vectors during the same time. I did the SPD hack for a while with Xpedo pedals which has led to some wear in the bearings of the right pedal, but can be easily replaced.

[@maritnmetal]

Love my assioma duo shi!! Glad your finding backs up the quality as well.

[@micomrkaic]

What a fantastic explanation! You would make a great engineering professor.

[@PeakTorque]

Thanks

[@fnm441]

Great video, really appreciate the hard work that's gone into this and reassuring that I made the right purchase. Do geek out further with the analysis 👍

[@fnm441]

Would be interesting to see a comparative study between different powermeter design philosophies (pedal, crank & spider), the advantages & limitations for each approach. Shimano did have problems with accuracy for the right sided spider unit, GPLAMA reported consistent drift with higher numbers if I remember correctly. Something to do with asymmetry of Shimano's r8000& r9100 spider.

[@OTBTBDA]

I really miss my PowerTap hub that displayed and recorded the Torque output. It was great to track the torque calculated especially on recovery rides!! Overall I don't care about how much power I can generate, I care more about how force I am putting on the pedal. If you don't know the brake load or input force, Power on its own is somewhat meaningless and in some cases it has zero value except for entertainment....buuuuuuut the Assioma pedal is the pedal I have wanted to purchase. On the Q-Factor I have long legs and similar foot rub on crank (reduced it with stretching program). I think its funny that people complain about the Q-factor when no one is measuring the hip width to buy a matching Bottom Bracket (BB axles don't come various lengths like frame do) of appropriate width...most have the feet too close together!!! Good video presentation as usual!!!!

[@ericrickert3045]

I have Shimano 105 pedals, so it seems I can buy these power meter devices and insert them into my pedals. I never wanted to switch to Look pedal systems, so this gives me hope I can retain my Shimano platform and use a good power meter set. Thanks for this!!! This video has good value to me!

[@TheAcfallejoseph]

I cant stop watching as if I enjoy the pain of my tiny brain getting wrecked by you simple explanation. Holy crap I want to here you explain how Vibration analysis works. That would be very cool.

[@VenikDwance]

Loving the explanations of how they seem to properly capture power & force distribution. Great video & review!

[@xBALL3R]

I am 183cm tall, also have my cleats inward. Really like the larger Q factor of the faveros. Cant imagine going back smaller again.

[@o1m1e1g1a]

I've found the bearings on the Assioma Duo Shi develop play really soon and I am a light rider, ride in dry weather and don't crank big watts. After 1000km I had significant play. Favero changed the "adaptors" the first time but were less helpful the second time around. New adaptors cost 60 Euros and my experience is that you would need to change them frequently!

[@KnowledgePerformance7]

Awesome vid! I really appreciate the nerd stuff, I'm currently in uni taking classes that talk about some similar stuff. Super cool to see a real world application for some of the annoying math I have been smashing my head against.

[@ezquiel700c]

This is exactly the video that I wanted. Been debating what to go with as also want something that I can use when traveling

[@gabrieltaylor697]

Great video, I look forward to more power meter comparisons!

[@rsmiii]

Freaking fascinating. Thanks for the detailed analysis and all the geeking out.

[@kevinwilleford7876]

I think I've found a candidate for the 'most interesting man alive'! Terrific breakdown!

[@PeakTorque]

High praise indeed thank you!

[@welanduzfullo8496]

thanks for the detailed review of a pedal based powermeter peak

[@realmagnetics799]

Interesting analysis on the cantilever beam. You forgot to mention that the bridge construction of the strain gauge can also create a non-linearity in the reading. If they are using something other than a full-bridge strain gauge then their measurement will have a non-linearity that will need to be accounted for.

[@funfriends609]

Thanks for the review and data. I have a pair of the Look version and they give a different (lower 3s avg) reading to my Kickr Core, but I don't really care as it seems to me outside riding is so different anyway. At first I thought that if I ride in ERG mode on the trainer the Assioma should be exactly that, but then realised there are a whole lot of calculations going on across the board and some sort of smoothing too, so I just figured I would use indoor for indoor and Assiomas for out. I am 90Kg, heavy and reliable. Love that film.

[@michprent]

I have the same trainer, and pedals, and i have a lower power with my pedals as well

[@PeakTorque]

We need to stop thinking that the Kickr is the go-to reference. You ride your bike outdoors (remember what it was like before zwift :) ). So use the Assiomas as your reference to both. The Kickr power is an algo based (altho very accurate) number. It also involves a fudge factor to take into account drivetrain friction which is different on each bike, which it can't account for.

[@michprent]

@@PeakTorque so this means my ftp is even lower? 😭😭 noooooo 😉

[@funfriends609]

@@michprent that is what I was thinking. Train on the pedal numbers, race on the trainer number!😀

[@funfriends609]

@@PeakTorque Agreed, I was just having difficulty with a bit of lag (or something else) when wanting to do a workout in ERG mode indoors but use the pedal power numbers to control the Kickr. Plus then I have to work harder on my workouts...

[@thedownunderverse]

Genuine LOL’s at the “Boris the Blade” cut-away 👌🏻

[@rwo5402]

Amazing detail and clearly explaining how these power meters determine power. I know that GPLama swears by them.

[@CycoWarriorx]

I purchased the Shimano FA’s when they were released but ultimately had to send them back. The 10mm offset variation was too much for my surgically repaired knee to absorb - even with a bike fit adjustment. I ended exchanging them for the regular FA’s and changed my cleats.

[@kwakeham]

There is another way to do it called a differential bending beam where you can ignore much of the math and it's just sensitive to force but desensitizes the bridge. 2 of 4 pedals use this method, garmin uses what you described.

[@jennoman]

I Think James Thomas would love this powermeter!

[@adamcoppock5018]

Road bikes could definitely go wider on Q-factor. I have ridden and raced road bikes for over 30 years, when Covid came along I spent a lot more time Mountain biking and I was reminded how narrow road bikes Q-factors are. It would also benefit anyone that suffers arthritis in their hips or for anyone with any slight irregularities in their hips that could lead to arthritis. I wondered if any studied been done in to power transfer also. Finally it seems strange that people have different width saddles but very few options on Q-factor …. Seems to scream biomechanics opportunities

[@Stuey001]

This is quality content, thanks. I am very happy with my look compatible favero assioma duos. They’ve been faultless and totally idiot proof. They just work.

[@8rk]

wow.. i watch a lot of james fit videos and first thing I thought when I heard people complaining about these shimano faveros was james saying something along the lines of "bike fit is measured in inches, not millimeters" and a lot of people wouldn't even notice the difference. You confirming this with him sealed the deal for me! Great video as usual.

[@MrKipperfish]

Out of context your quote is too general to be useful, and James would add conditions. "there are some areas of fit where mm do make a difference, for example cleat location..." - James in a video on 1/27/2022

[@8rk]

@@MrKipperfish yep

[@felixblock1542]

Interesting. I can say that even the very first Garmin Vector from 2013 with the metal pod and also the Garmin Vector 2 definitely transmitted the POC. You could also get that displayed in the final evaluation. I own 2 Garmin Vectors, both of which still work after almost 10 years. However, one of the power meters now has a significant measurement deviation of about 8% due to age or falls. Apart from that, the readings were always extremely comparable as long as the outside temperature was high enough. From 4° or less, it was always difficult because the CR2032s would then tend to drop in capacity and battery error messages and clearly low power values would be displayed. The possibility of battery replacement is both an advantage and a disadvantage. The Garmin Vector can be ridden for a very long time, but the batteries have to be replaced before important races etc. as a precaution. Charging via USB, as with P2m NG, is more practical. I have been riding for about 5-7 years with 2 Power2Max NG power meters. These are clearly better in terms of temperature adjustment, and especially in the 1 second power reading. So they show the power with much less time lag than the Garmin Vector. Interestingly, however, I have interesting deviations with all 4 power meters. From the beginning, exactly one powermeter always deviated 5% from the other. So one Vector powermeter showed 5% less than the other. And the same with the Power2max. Really curious. And guess what: one power meter of the Garmin Vector and Power2max each show identical values. So the 5% deviations are in the same direction. The crank lengths were set correctly, don't worry. Overall, I have to say that the Garmin Vector 1 and 2 were and are better than their reputation. They have always been very precise for me, conscientiously mounted with 40nm torque, as long as you have paid attention to the temperature adjustment (put the bike outside beforehand, etc.). What you should always do in my opinion: compare power meters, preferably on a precise roller trainer that reliably measures the same. My Tacx Neo also shows consistently lower values, also in the -5% range, but also with a slightly temperature drift. I was able to make a good comparison with it. Tests on the mountain have shown pretty much the same deviations, but are more difficult to implement really accurately. The Faveros also seem to be quite interesting power meters. Greetings from Germany, Felix.

[@waynosfotos]

Nicely explained and easy to follow. Thank you. 😊👍

[@mattmanv3]

I absolutely loved all the detail and science behind it, however, i do know how myrs feels now when i talk to her about bike stuff 😅😅😅. Great vid. A simple sub from me 😊

[@jeremyweine7686]

another amazing video, I get so excited every time I see an upload of yours! I have one question: with relatively stiff shoes, and a large 3-bolt cleat transferring the force to the pedal, how much do biomechanics really affect where on the pedal the force is applied?

[@nstrug]

Even if you consider the pedal, cleat and shoe to be a rigid platform, the foot is not and can exert a force at different positions across the footbed of the shoe.

[@bushanliger]

Great video, love how much detail you gave. Can you also test the Garmin rally pedals ?

[@iancraig2507]

Very well explained. Thank you so much.

[@nietzschegustav1397]

Great video … greetings from Germany & merry Xmas 🎄

[@aussiefreediver]

Need your brilliant mind to ask if you think it's possible that wedged shims could throw off the power reading on the Assioma pedals. I've been battling with a - 10-12% reading and wasn't sure if this might be the reason. Long fan of the channel, keep em coming!

[@engnelsito]

If you really want Shimano SPD-SL cleats and are concerned about the stance in the Faveros, the Garmin Rally are now a good option (53-55mm). The Vectors got a bad reputation because of the poor battery compartment design (the metal cover threaded in the plastic body that will end up stripping unless you were really careful), but the Rally have now fixed that with a metal thread in the pedal body. I installed the new Rally bodies in the Vector 3 spindles and so far so good. The only advantage I can see in the Faveros is the Gyro for the IAV, since the internal battery has good and bad points.

[@infinati]

Have you had to replace your battery in the new Garmins yet? I'd be most worried about contamination more than anything

[@engnelsito]

@@infinati You mean internal contamination (like battery leaking) or external contamination from water and dust ingress? Again, with the vector 3, after changing the batteries a few time it would be likely that the plastic threads in the pedal body would start to get damaged and wouldn't provide a good seal between the battery cap and the pedal body letting moisture in. With the new metal threads, that seems unlikely unless the seal is damaged.

[@michwoz]

Garmin Rally's have offset drift issues...

[@Tamas_Torok]

Hi! I have a Shimano PD-RS500 pedal which is not compatible with the Assioma spindle. I wrote to Favero about this and they answerd: "As far as the model you've mentioned, RS500, although with the same hooking type as the R550, it has an internal thread slightly different, not granting enough hooking force. For this reason, I am sorry to inform you that it is not compatible to be used with our Assioma DUO-Shi power meter." Of course I accepted the answer, but after I watched your video I become curious. Could you tell what would be the problem? Inaccurate readings, decreased durability, or maybe it wouldn't hold the pedal body?

[@Horstelin]

I think you are wrong regarding the low resolution of the magnet based cadence sensing. What you mean is a slow update rate (as to the head unit) and that you can only really "measure" power once per revolution. Measuring time intevals is really easy for electronics with high precision and resolution, especially with such slow signals (1-2Hz in compraison to say 1GHz is 10^9 difference). It already is integrated rotational velocity over the whole rotation.

[@PeakTorque]

Sorry yes, wordslip. Update rate not resolution.

[@CoreQ]

I watched your video and purchased the duo-shit. scientifically the body shouldn't have any problem adapted to it ,But I feel significant differences when riding it. maybe due to My body size is small. after 10k miles of riding. I still feel the big differences. I might go with other pm for this matter. I love the product it works perfectly in everyway. very smooth.

[@DigitalMan6627]

Duo -shit??? Were they really that bad??

[@CoreQ]

don't judge the product by their "names"@@DigitalMan6627

[@Silvermanav]

I just purchased a pair of these. Please don’t ream them too hard (my ego wouldn’t recover)

[@swites]

Oh that's good as never liked keo cleats. I've just worn out an ultegra carbon pedal( at the front) that was attached to my left stages so I did use it a lot on all my bikes. Good that you can just swap out the insides with these assioma's. My Q factor is a bit lop sided as I have one of those BB brakes so had to move my left crank out a few mm's so my pm would clear the brake caliper. Don't notice any difference though.

[@hockysa]

the wider stance sounds like a bonus. currently I use the 4mm extended axle with spacers.

[@AntonStensby]

Great review as always! Since you’re talking so much about trainer inconsistency regarding power readings, could you make a video comparing a trainer to pedal and crank based power meters? I have a Wahoo Kickr which is too inconsistent for me to use, I always have to supply with power data from my Quarq.

[@VincentVanWersch]

Thanks, i might need to revise my stance on pedal powermeters, well the Assioma's at least.

[@williamstevenson2649]

Thanks. Very interesting video. Do you think the Assioma pod contains a radial array of sensors, as the bending direction under force with respect to a datum fixed on the spindle could vary 180 degrees from TDC to BDC? There isn't much room for a radial array in the Garmin Rally- do you think they have a gyro as well as Assioma?

[@Hambini]

"I'm not paying $29 because I'm cheap" - as he wears his $500 swiss watch!!!

[@PeakTorque]

I think its made in Malaysia and its not swiss!

[@Youtubefana]

@@PeakTorque is that not the lovely Seiko 5?

[@VincentVanWersch]

This self-made analysis tool looks very good though.

[@kf168]

nice watch skx007

[@rattila13]

Spends several hundreds of dollars worth of his time on making his own tool because he's cheap.

[@tehb4sstard]

So help me understand this. The two measuring points are a set distance apart. Through the difference in bending torque between those two measuring points the device multiplies the set distance between the two sensors to the point where the Force is equal. Thats basically the calculation the pedal does nonstop, right? So by knowing the difference in Force at a set distance it can calculate at which distance the Force is equal, and thats where the center of force is located at, thereby having every component of the equation in order to have the T=F*L set to spit out the right Torque

[@jbkltc4469]

Great Vid, love the way you share your expertise. Question: Magnet based Cadence-sensing - is it really just 1 data point for each revolution? I thought they would use more than one pickup circuit internally. SRMs tweaked the ANT Protocol when using theis PC computers to get a 4Hz reading, thus i think their cadence data would also be higher than 1/rev... Looking forward to hear your thoughts on that

[@robinseibel7540]

A few questions: 1. I've got Shimano PD-7900s w/ +4mm axles. Shoes are Lake CX238. Eyeballing with a rule shows maybe 2-3mm that I could move my cleats outboard. Am I missing something there? That seems to leave me a bit short of where the DUO-Shis are. Then if I throw a 1mm washer between the DUO-Shis and my Campy Chorus 12 speed cranks, that would leave me another 1mm or so short. 2. Assuming a person maxes out the outward postion of their SPD-SL cleats, is shoe rub on the Duo-Shi "pod" a concern? 3. I thought I heard that Favero is using a bushing in place of one of the bearings that is found in the Ultegra pedal. Is this true, and if so, is this something notieceable?

[@emmabird9745]

Hi. I'm obviously a bit late watching this. There's a couple of things I don't quite understand. The torque is the TANGENTIAL component of load times the crank length so it is important that the electronics knows where tangential is. That is to say when you thread on a pedal, where does the azimuth alignment end up? The other is, as you pedal around the circle the resulant varies according to pedalling method, eg ankling as opposed to us ordinary mortals up and down so instantaneous values integrated around would differ from average. The last, partly connected is whether oval rings affects the results.

[@manceconomist]

Interested in what you said about turbo trainer inaccuracy. Would you include the Tacx Neo? There are many discussions when a Neo measures lower than a power meter. Some explain the Neo is the accurate one because it is measuring the electric current generated by the rider. What would you say? Thanks.

[@chrisspeksnijder1717]

Hi. I bought myself a pair Favero Assioma Duo Shi. Excellent. I do have a Stages crank on my second bike, my training bike. Perhaps a serious review of the Stages? .

[@eriksosso3804]

Compared to similar product, they miss just the center balance metrics provided by the Garmin vector. But they definetly gain in reliability. Running them 4 years. And discovered they were made 1km away from where I lived 10 years I IT

[@Tuwekz]

Very nice video.. I believe the guys at Favero couldn’t explain better than you 😄

[@galenkehler]

Reminds me of the old story of the left hand derailleur: it doesn't matter how good it works, the fact that all bikes are right hand drive dooms it to failure. Unless you make a new crankarm thats somehow has a 127mm q-factor, you'll be relegated to niche use for a handful of wide-hipped individuals.

[@galenkehler]

When I started cycling as a MTB rider, I just accepted the wider cranks as normal. But when I put a road crankset on my MTB it was amazing how much more power I had. If I'd only known back in the day, I could have avoided quite a bit of hip discomfort.

[@DrHWO]

Thank you. A very nice video with a well pitched explanation of the FA force measurement method. I guess for most of us the important thing with power measurements is consistency, allowing us to see how much better / worse we have performed given the "same" circumstances. Do you teach in real life?

[@PeakTorque]

Cheers, yeh consistent readings are the most important part. I do not teach, no.

[@DrHWO]

@@PeakTorque perhaps you should!

[@furitiem]

So I guess the strain gauges themselves must be very accurate? I'm inferring the strain reading is proportional to F.l (not an engineer), so the derived force would work out to a constant times ΔS/x'. If the gauges have an error of +/- p% then the worst-case error in ΔS/x' would be roughly 2p(x/x')%, which would be dramatically higher.

[@TheGinger1]

You are definitely the exception rather than the norm when it comes to the stance width working for you. Only riders with tight lateral hips and externally rotated knee/ankles are going to find these work for them. I had a kid that was riding perfectly fine and then his father bought him these pedals and he instantly developed knee pain. I physically couldn't undo the width change by moving the cleats and he had to sell them. Not that the Favero pedals themselves are bad, the Look version is great.

[@TheGinger1]

Stance width need to change as pelvic posture changes because the hip acetabulum is oriented at an angle facing forward. As the pelvis anteriorly rotates (road bike or a more extreme case is a TT bike) this hip acetabulum orientation brings the femors closer together and therefore requiring a narrower stance width. On a MTB the pelvis is more posteriorly rotated and therefore a wider stance width is needed. Obviously some people are going to need a wider stance width than others.

[@normen416]

Couldn't agree more, eventually I had to migrate to look cleats but I love these pedals!

[@Natester13]

Subscribed bc I enjoyed your long winded big nerd energy effort. Hell yea dude keep that sh*t up.

[@totallynotraging]

Just waiting for the flat pedal version of these then we're talking. In fact wonder if these spindles might work in any Shimano MTB flats.

[@mrnobody9821]

They work with some M series SPD (clipless?) Pedal bodies, there's a forum with info about this, i'll likely buy a second pair specifically because I can fit MTB pedal bodies to them.

[@SignorLuigi]

Great video! 👏👏👏‼️ I do think you represent a user for whom the larger Q factor is less problematic because you can adjust your cleat position to offset some of the increase and you are long legged. At least you look like you have long legs in your videos. For you, each millimeter of linear displacement away from the crank produces less angular displacement of your leg about your hip. But for a smaller person with shorter legs, the situation becomes less ideal. Also, for someone like yourself who rides a road bike and a mountain bike, you have probably built up more tolerance for different Q factors. For those who have multiple road bikes, having the same Q factor probably matters more. I very much appreciate your technical analysis of the power and cadence performance of the Assiomas. But, I think the jury is still out on the fairly large increase in Q factor that comes with these new power meter pedals from Assioma.

[@PeakTorque]

Good comment, you are very right about that bit of Pythagoras for shorter legged riders!

[@glennoc8585]

Stance width is something that's not considered at a level that perhaps it should be. You'd have to measure an individual's hip width to calculate the ideal pedal centre to centre. It's a bit in the too hard basket. Myself I can't notice much difference between my road bike and MTB albeit a mechanical difference is inherent.

[@Christian-pw5ws]

Can you place these in any Shimano SPD/MTB pedals? Would that be possible and work?

[@StavrosAvramidis42]

I shouldn't worry about the 1s time shift, either way the 2 power meters won't broadcast at the same time and since data is recorded only 1/sec and discarding packets can't produce accurate comparison. You could record them manually with a python script etc...

[@FF-li6zj]

Would you care to compare them to the SRM X-Power? That would be really interesting.

[@mariosimas]

Love you riding with a Seiko SKX :)

[@thijsblom7385]

Hi thanks for the very well explained physics. Is it possible to buy a set of these and share it with a friend? My friend takes the left pedal, I take the right pedal. In the settings in the app you can choose to 'Double the Power', isn't it? If we both double the power of our own personal pedal, this would work I guess... This would save half the costs? And half of the Q-factor problem....

[@chinaskibukowski7747]

New subscriber here, absolutely love your content. I jogged through your videos looking for information on oval crank rings but couldn't find anything. Do you have experience with them? If so what are your thoughts?

[@rgpeters]

100% spot on about the Q-factor

[@DanielSiladji]

Regarding PCO, AFAIK Keith Wakeham said (and demonstrated) why it is actually impossible to measure it with the current sensor setup on the Assiomas

[@PeakTorque]

Interesting, i have not seen that. Do you have a link to the post?

[@pneves1975]

Great pwoermeter, excellent values. Lousy mechanically speaking, two sets and both developed play. the first after 3000km and the second after 8000km. Back to crankset-based PM. Spoiled by Shimano pedal quality (ultegra ones with more than 50'000km trouble free)? Nothing to say abut look-based Favero ones, I don't like look, hence I gave this a try. Th sleeve system is just not resistant enough for the effort. Check here the video for maintenance and you'll see what I mean. Also q-factor impacts aerodynamics and may cause discomfort (not an issue for me).

[@universalsprout]

Thanks for the in depth explanation, out of interest shouldn't the graph axis be labelled cadence/power difference instead of cadence/power error since you don't know what the true value is?

[@razorree]

how does it work with one pedal extender (20mm) on only 1 side ?

[@tomandsamuel]

Do you have any advice on how using pedal extenders affects accuracy of pedal or crank based Powermeters? I need use extenders due to injury

[@salsalawyer]

I'm wondering if these are compatible with the Shimano SPD pedals? The mountain bike pedals. It should just be a swap right?

[@MellowBellow_]

Yes

[@aerobrain2001]

Regarding the cadence, we’re both head units definitely both set to either include or exclude zeros? I’m sure you’d have thought about that but just crossed my mind. Great video by the way!

[@PeakTorque]

Yep dont worry both set the same way. All the data is also taken from the fit file, not strava or garmin connect etc.

[@kiddrone8336]

Good video, and most especially, good method of writing X. Always a good day when I see someone else writing them correctly... lmao

[@PeakTorque]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@wss327]

Love my DUO!

[@mirceaandreighinea]

6:18 - power... but the system measures the Force over the spindle. How does the system know the Lever Arm? When the force is perpendicular to the crank, at that point, the crank length is the same as the lever arm. That is one spot only. What about the other degrees of the turning crank, when the lever arm gets all the time a different length? So, how does the system know these parameters for getting the Lever Arm? - the DIRECTION of the force over the spindle; - the POSITION of the crank; - the ANGLE between the two. Only by knowing all these parameters the system can calculate the Lever Arm. (then, along with the Force, comes the Torque; and then, finally, along with the RPM, comes the Power)

[@xTTfreakx]

Interesting question. I suppose, the gyroscope readings can be used to determine crank position and if force over the spindle is also measured in direction and not only in value, the part of the force perpendicular to the crank arm is easy to determine. But that's just my guess, and maybe someone with more understanding can confirm this or explain how it's actually done.

[@roebbiej]

Excellent video!