The BEST way to add batteries to a grid tied solar system. Part 3, FarmCraft101 solar

I add a battery backup to my existing grid tie solar system which uses a SolarEdge inverter. It's becoming quite common that people purchase a grid tie system and then realize they want to add a battery backup. There are many ways to do it, but an AC coupled setup is going to be the easiest, cheapest, and most effective as well!
My Solaredge inverter: amzn.to/2TdZJKn
My Schneider backup inverter: amzn.to/2TgLynU
All of my solar videos: • FarmCraft101 Solar Vid...
MERCH STORE!:
www.farmcraft101.com
Patreon:
/ farmcraft101
Facebook:
/ farmcraft101
Equipment I used for my system:
Panels: Q-cell 305 watts.
Grid tie inverter: SolarEdge
Battery backup inverter: Schneider Conext 6648
Batteries: Interstate GC-8
Scheider mini distribution panel
Schneider control panel
I have no affiliation with any of these companies, nor have I received any compensation from them. Use of SolarEdge logo on thumbnail falls under fair use of trademark, as it is a SolarEdge system that I am retrofitting.

[@nayankalita2068]

This panel can put out close to 100 watts kzbin.infoUgkxOqI2yqX0XVrhR2BMJciTWrHJpG8FhJyg when positioned in the appropriate southernly direction, tilted to the optimal angle for your latitude/date, and connected to a higher capacity device than a 500. The built in kickstand angle is a fixed at 50 degrees. Up to 20% more power can be output by selecting the actual date and latitude optimal angle.The 500 will only input 3.5A maximum at 18 volts for 63 watts. Some of the excess power from the panel can be fed into a USB battery bank, charged directly from the panel while also charging a 500. This will allow you to harvest as much as 63 + 15 = 78 watts.If this panel is used to charge a larger device, such as the power station, then its full output potential can be realized.

[@sourcecreator2222]

THANK YOU SO MUCH THIS IS EXACTLY THE INFORMATION I WAS LOOKING FOR. And you had amazing, super helpful diagrams to help a visual learner like myself understand! Your explanations are so clear!

[@nroger01]

Dedication + Execution + Explanation + Cost Quotes + Clarity = Me Subing. Good job

[@khan5162608]

Exactly. Very impressive stuff.

[@itsjiraheta]

+1

[@skoto.power.systems]

I have always wanted to find out if a gridtie inverter can produced power to an inverter but today i know it, all thanks to you. Big ups and keep it up. Thank you

[@silverismoney]

When I got solar 6 years ago, battery systems were just too expensive and would never break even. Now though, they're just about affordable/economical and I'm looking to add one into my system too. Your video helped a lot, thanks!

[@MrSchnickel]

I am very impressed with ur system and the way u are able to explain it. very often ther is the lack of logic thinking and u are gifted to do so because of studying the material.

[@markwong6548]

What a clear concise explanation.. you do a better job than many engineering professors.

[@casachango9339]

Thanks for these videos, they are hugely helpful. We recently built a house in Sayulita, Mexico, and it is experiencing growing pains with frequent power outages. Located at the 20 parallel with 350 days of sunshine a year it is an ideal candidate for using solar. The power company has a monthly cap on electric consumption that when you go over the cost rate increases dramatically, and for the next 6 months. So, we are looking at all the solar options, and your series of 3 videos have helped me understand the options and issues. Thanks.

[@scottelliott3074]

Loop moo

[@omnipitous4648]

This helped me too. I have a 30-panel system and I was contemplating a battery back up. Thanks for the info.

[@kozinator]

Hoooooly! Fantastic Videos, THANKS for putting the time into these and sharing them!

[@jerryrogers5233]

Good stuff! Iappreciate the time, effort, and honesty involved. Great job.

[@bonglibunao]

Thanks for this series on your solar power setup. Im trying to educate myself and this was very informative and easy to understand. Again, thanks!

[@DubStepAnonymouse]

Great explanation of the different systems and how they operate and the different components within the systems and all the rest. I have been trying to learn all this stuff for a while now and you sir just explained all my questions in one go Bravo! and thanks.

[@guzziventure1750]

So very well and clear explained. Excellent how you correct, make yourself more understandable by editing your voiceover afterwards. It is pleasing. Everyone understands that. Thanks!

[@goforgreenliving]

I have a charge controller I came up with just because of that. It's 200amps continuous 500 amp surge. 12-24 it's just under $200. 48v a little more. I am setting up my solar system just that same way. A few small differences but mostly the same. Thanks for a great video

[@theroboticscodedepot7736]

I like the idea of a critical load panel you mentioned at the end of the video! Makes a switch over simple.

[@linctexpilot8337]

This is the best, most well explained, most well designed "off grid" system I have ever seen yet!

[@MrSummitville]

Actually this is not an "off grid" system. Not even if you use "quotes". It is a poorly designed manually controlled "AC Coupled Hybrid PV" system. Real AC Coupled Hybrid PV systems are 100% automatic.

[@kennethschultz6465]

Yep they use transfer switch ..

[@ochardkeo9458]

I really like the illustrative and descriptive information that is so easy to process, even a child can understand, like Einstien once said. If lecturers in school can start by explaining the process before the technical things.

[@ericfraser7543]

I really enjoyed watching this series of videos and your solar setup. It is frustrating watching other channels invest tens of thousands of dollars for an off grid system when their property is capable of being grid tied all to avoid a power bill. They invested 40K++ (in parts alone) in an inferior off grid solar + generator setup to avoid paying 10K to tie into the grid. You basically validated all the points I tried to make... including investing their money in the sock market!

[@pedromeza2398]

Great job explaining, and thank you too, because I have been looking into adding batteries to my grid solar system. I will check out all your videos and go to the Facebook site you have; Professor!

[@mikewasowski1411]

Brilliant video. Superbly explained. This is why I love KZbin. Not always, but occasionally a great source of information as was this case. Thanks for sharing

[@koisolare1266]

I would disagree on many items in this design. I do think FarmCraft101 has some great diagrams and teaching methods, but it lacks trade smarts and code compliance/safety. There is no reason to re-invent the wheel here. I hope people don't just assume all inverters have this "multi inverter" feature, which is actually for the same models w/ proper distribution panel. As Tofulnc says, the XW6800 hybrid could do it all. Here are my safety/code concerns: 1.)MC cable for HVDC ... not allowed in most states! Use PVC, or EMT. 2.)16.8kW feeding into a 200Amp panel .... almost double the allowed 20% over current by code. 3.)Where is the DC combiner for 3 strings. I believe you said 1 wire for DC run.(actually 3 but need 5) 4.)Why is there a label for AC disconnect on the DC run? 5.)AC couple is not ok for just any brand inverter. Those frequency control funtions are for 2-3 same size and brand inverters with proper distribution box. 6.)Is that a suicide cord being used ... on the gen run .. and manual charge? Way not ok! 7.)Guessing that manual xfer would need a separate lockout box too ... if it was allowable. 8.)I did not see a battery breaker or other DC distribution on low volt side. Bigger bank and cable size could help start large loads using all of the 13kw startup power (maybe 10sec?) from the xw6800. 9.)Proper clearances are not maintained on XW6800 10.)No mention of grounding and reasons for it are a big missing part of safety w/ 380VDC runs in a DIY video. 11.) I have to assume that this addition is without a permit. I feel it is to the advantage for DIY to use inspectors to help make installs a bit more safe, and not void your home owners insurance. 12.)I would never recommend DIY for backup/offrid if the owner did not install the grid tie setup! It is way more complicated and dangerous! Ok ... not to worry. I am not the inspector in your county! But this is a video to help people learn ... right? Why not show a safe more simple approach. Here is are some things missing in your "retrofit strategy". 1.)Cheap solution is rewire array yourself for 10 of 3 panel strings of 100-150VDC. 2.)Put the proper fused DC combiner at the Array. 3.)Pull new wires if needed on DC run. How much can a DIY 300ft ditch and conduit run for a worst case scenario? Not the $1000 to $2000 extra for HV CCs. 2x 80A HVCC would get you to 8.8KW PCT or 10k DC STC if you do not want to oversize array to inverter. 4.)Bigger battery bank, proper batteries, larger inter ties/homeruns, and large xfer switch solves the startup problem. A gen along with gen load balance can also work if that compressor is really needed offgrid! Symmetrical taps would also help! Yes, high current is different than normal wiring. 5.)Realize that you do get 3300W per XWMPPT60 CC, and could go with just 2 for a 9.2karray. Yes ... you can over size an array to inverters or CCs and they just de-rate by firmware for safety when needed! It is completely allowed by the manufacturer and codes. If you want to save on equipment ... this is a place! Panels are cheap! This type of over size of 25% (9.2k x .85 PCT factor = 1.25 x 6.8k) . results in a loss of only about 5-10% depending on climate since peak power only occurs on cold days near noon time. 6.)Realize that a large manual 200A xfer switch could just be a "high power grid tie mode", and then 99% of everything else would just be automatic with the 60A XW automatic xfer. This solves your critical loads problem. Using appropriate size battery bank/ and oversized inter ties will help on motor starts. Does that large compressor really need back up ... instead of a little cheap spare? Running one or two new dedicated circuits for an item is not typically that hard. Making it look good can be hard! 7.) Have to say the already wasted money here is the original system with "optimizers". I would guess the installer got a closeout deal ... after hearing the $1200 price for the 10k inverter .... which was originally more like $2000 plus $2000 more for the optimizers. They are just not needed on a single plane array. Most panels have "bypass diodes" that help minimize losses when a random panel fails or is dirty. Maintenance and monitoring is even a better solution. These, and micro inverters need 4x as many weather tight plugs, which are the most likely part to fail on the array. What a longgggg comment. It helps me stay in design shape when not installing so many systems! Maybe some one reads it ;-)

[@JoshuaShepherd]

@@koisolare1266 does electricity. Also PCP.

[@guzziventure1750]

@@koisolare1266 I read it. I'm impressed. Clearly you know a lot about it. Problem is: It is hard, very difficult to understand without schemes. Do I understand you well? The system of FarmCraft is not safe or not as safe as it should and could be? How much would the system cost if it was setup your way?

[@koisolare1266]

@@guzziventure1750 A standard XW6800 system with smaller battery bank is about 10k$ plus another 10k$ for rewire, trench and labor (PV and ground mount additional cost) A general rule for battery backup is 2 to 3x the cost of grid tie. It makes much more since to get a gas/propane backup compressor/gen if you really need that backed up. Battery backup is always questionable if you do not use it more than a week in a year.

[@Cervan]

wow this is brilliant. Excellent explanation of how the system works, i really like the idea of having two inverters for high amperage loads, ill have to show my friend this system so he can go this route.

[@MrKoladge]

I just decided to start with the grid tied system then ad the battery set up later. This video answered what I was looking for.. Thanks

[@Ernest_son]

Good job. Excellent presentation. I enjoyed the way u kept it simple

[@daisymarquez4047]

thank you for explaining the subject clearly!

[@johanncover1988]

Nice system. Just a few month ago I was in a similar place as you. I ended up going with a solar charge controller because my gridtie DC voltage lined up with the battery bank and I wanted the inverter to keep running in the night.

[@peterrafeiner9461]

Great videos! I'm looking into solar for the house and learned a lot here. Thanks !

[@ryanseleski21]

Fantastic video. This is helping me understand solar much better. Thank you

[@pauld7806]

Hey Farmcraft, Nice work. That's a great system. However, there is an issue with your battery bank that needs correcting. You have three strings of batteries, and your main DC + and - are coming from the same string. You will balance the current between the three strings better if you have the DC + coming from string 1 and the DC - coming from string 3. As it is, you will use more current from the string on the right, and so your batteries will age at different rates.

[@vitecist]

You are right Some batteries have more stress Because the voltage drops on wires

[@givemefreedom2359]

Terrific but of information. Thank you.

[@Sovereign_Citizen_LEO]

@Paul D - Maybe the Schneider Conext inverter has built in functionality in it's charge controller though which would alleviate or minimize that problem?

[@dang6832]

Will Prowse recently did a video on that. It’s surprisingly not that simple. I don’t remember why though.

[@davebutler3905]

Good point but, I don't think the few millivolts drop in those cables is going to be significant. Imbalance in the capacity of the cells is what causes failure... A chain is as strong as the weakest link... In series cells the one with smallest capacity gets "bullied" by the others. Overcharged at the top end and depleted or even reverse charged at the bottom end.

[@AlamBarzakh99]

Hmm, different perspective, always learning new thing with the KZbin community, 👍👍👍👍

[@matthewwalker6621]

Thank you for the easy explanation

[@michaelgramegna8874]

Thank you I’m making my owe off gird system and you gave me a few very good ideas thanks again

[@beardedgaming3741]

If it has issues starting heavy loads, you can put capacitors on those loads. That would help get over the initial startup draw. That would be cheaper than running two inverters.

[@PengunFury]

Great 3 video series! really well explained

[@floriotj]

Congratulations, you put together a nice system.

[@keything8487]

THANKS MAN !!! watched all 3 solar videos...great work.....i like the set up !!!

[@Sovereign_Citizen_LEO]

Thanks for your vides and detailed explainations. They helped me better understand the various system configurations (and complexities). You could definitely have (and maybe do by now), an automated transfer switch (to switch to battery bank when the power goes out). Your power probably doesn't go out much there. But around here the power is shut off every time the wind blows (over maybe 23mph or something?) due to wildfire risk. We went through one. 1500 of my neighbors lost their homes. But being without power for what has been in rare cases 5 days at a time (and 6 weeks during the wildfire), has been an inconvenience to say the least. The power has gone out here almost every week at least one day (and sometimes several), as they are currently [finally] upgrading (and replacing) the distribution infrastructure, and have to shut off the power to do so. I'm currently trying to build a system (on a very limited budget and with limited knowledge of Solar Systems or electrical in general). It is difficult to say the least, and will most likely be off grid (even though Grid tie systems now are more technologically sophisticated/ capable). I don't really have the finances to hire an electrician and do everything to code/ get inspections, etc. (of course it still has to be safe and not backfeed, etc.). I bought a hybrid inverter and 30KW/h LifePO4 battery bank (still sitting unused) at this point.

[@Insulus]

glad he included the disadvantage of the two inverters not having a deticated control line between them but curious that he did not mention the power loss to heat from converting DC>AC>DC for charging the batteries via solar. may be minor but still significant.

[@oilczar]

Your videos are amazing and have helped motivate me to pursue an area of keen interest, physics Especially, since I know awesome DIY projects are so doable. You really ought to have a skillshare account, to help spread your talent for teaching. Great humor in the videos, find myself laughing a lot too.

[@FarmCraft101]

Thank you!

[@notsoserious0944]

Slick. I work with commercial VFDs for motor control etc. A good surge/lightning protection system is good insurance..especially (and I don't know why) in a rural setting. They used to call them a TVSS but there is a new terminology now that escapes me.

[@eskwadrat]

Great video along with previous p. 1&2, thanks.

[@bryancunningham1095]

Glad to see you used that type of batteries, lithium ion are very compact, energy efficient but are to dangerous for inside residents and cars, coming out with several new battery types like sodium ion which is approaching lithium ion but are A little heavier but much safer and can even use the same manufacturing lines, the future is a little brighter, like your videos, keep it up.

[@effie2206]

Thanks, good information, very well presented.

[@rcinfla9017]

Another negative for using a high voltage battery charge controller besides cost, that is not realized by many system designers, is the ripple current that is placed on the batteries. The Hybrid inverter DC input current draw is based on the AC sinewave load profile, meaning the current into the 48 vdc input to the Hybrid inverter is half sinewave pulses, like a full wave rectified sinewave. The 48 vdc from the high voltage PV charge controller is a more uniform DC feed with DC output voltage based on the charge state of the batteries. The batteries now act as a filter capacitor to supply the peak sinewave current and reverse DC current to momentarily push current into the battery at AC zero voltage crossings of the sinewave AC power. What this means is the batteries are subject to continuous pushing and pulling of current at 120 Hz rate which shorten their live span even though there may be no net average power draw from the batteries. Your Hybrid battery inverter was obviously added by you after the grid tie system was installed and approved. Your installation on the Hybrid addition would not have passed inspection. At minimum I would recommend you cut a piece of plywood or drywall and cover up the exposed battery terminals to prevent accidently dropping something conductive on them. Most codes do not allow batteries to be located directly below electrical panels due to potential hydrogen outgassing by batteries, even if using sealed lead acid type.

[@godvsevolutionmythgodvsevo1038]

Is there a drain cycle for the batteries in hybrid system?

[@markogrba1]

It's amazing how inverters have improved in three years. Now you can have one box to do everything. Batteries are better too.

[@vitecist]

Very helpful video for me Answer a lot of my questions and also a nice and smart system . Thanks

[@gilkennedy7638]

That is basically what I need, Thanks for sharing

[@melyndagessel674]

I have been trying to figure this out for years. Thanks!!!!!!

[@JRo250]

Excellent video. Very clear and thorough. I've also come to the same conclusion as you regarding AC-coupling. In my case, I will be using microinverters as solar AC source. According to Schneider, if your grid is out, their XW+ inverters cannot regulate the current used to charge your batteries. This applies only to AC-coupled systems. They say lead acid (like yours) can handle this 'full on' charge but other batteries like Lithium, cannot. The next time your grid is out (or as a test), see if you can measure the current being dumped on your battery bank. It should be ~140A regardless of state of charge.

[@FarmCraft101]

It gives the amperage readout on the control panel. The amperage does vary some, between 120 and 180 or so, depending on the charge state of the battery bank. It also has a temperature sensor for the batteries that will stop or slow the charging if the batteries get too hot.

[@Elektric4rog]

This is one main issue I see with the system in the video; AC coupled system with the "Grid-Tie" inverter (GTI) operating/configured as per Grid code can cause: 1. Tripping of the Hybrid Inverter (or both) on low load and high sun conditions (as the GTI try to output a lot more power than required by load conditions - including battery charging), or 2. overcharging of batteries; the Hybrid inverter will not be able to regulate the charging current (from the GTI) as it is not communicating with it - this can shorten battery life, if not damage the batteries - battery dependent) Typically, in AC Coupled systems operating off-grid, where there's no direct communication between the inverters (maybe because of different brands, or simply the option is not available) the GTI inverter should be configured to operate in "Off-Grid" mode, whereby the Hybrid inverter can then "communicate" and control the output power of the GTI by varying the AC frequency (and via Frequency-Shift Power Control (FSPC) for SMA, Active Frequency Shift Power Curtailment (AFSPC) for Schneider or in this case, Power Control Option for SolarEdge); note however that the default "Off-Grid" mode may not comply with Grid code (adjusting frequency range, and adding an additional anti-islanding relay can likely solve this issue, to comply with operation with Grid present). Otherwise, for FarmCraft 01's situation, the SolarEdge StorEdge solution could have proved easier to integrate.

[@drunkinone5969]

You have a great system there. The only thing I can see that you might consider changing. Is the battery Bank load side wires going to the inverter should be pulled from either corner of your battery Bank. The way they're wired now it would pull from the first string where they're connected. Just move either the positive or negative to the other end. This would make it act as one big battery.

[@drunkinone5969]

With that being said, a charge controller output would go to the opposite corners of your battery Bank. That makes the input and the output run through the batteries.

[@garzascreek]

Since the 3 banks are wired in parallel why would it pull from the first series string instead of all of them equally?

[@drunkinone5969]

@16:28 The load side conductors are on the same string. Although their in parallel, it will pull from the closest set first. So, your first string will take most of the load. I would pull from either end for your load and the opposite terminales for you line in. This will act as one big battery this way. the line in has to run all the way to the other end for the load. (not being a smart ass) Think about it. It makes sense. Hope this helps. I'll try to find some links to help out. Your not wrong but I think that it might cause extra strain on that first set.

[@matt5752]

Agreed, because if the voltage can only come from one, it will, essentially.

[@mamadousow7323]

Drunkinone can you share a drawing, thanks

[@kerron_]

Very good configuration

[@cybeer67]

BIG THANK YOU !!! I am studying how to insert a [GRID-TIE-INVERTER] to my off grid solar/battery setup. (Just how you showed in your slide) Right now im running just a circuit from my house off-grid (1 room and the fridge) But at 9am.. Batts will be at 14volts ! So rest of the day im just throwing away the rest of the captured energy ! My setup is smaller but I guess the same rules or logic applies. Again, thank you. (Surviving on Solar Energy after Hurricane Maria in Puerto Rico.)

[@FarmCraft101]

You're very welcome. I hope you found it helpful!

[@chinthuthomas1840]

Please explain how to handle if production is high and load is less battery is full. i have 2kva home UPS sign wave with 2 battery. I would like to add a 3kva solar using micro inverter. Here no grid back feeding mechanism. Presently grid current is passing through my old inverter to entire house. I am not willing to throw out my old inverter for a hybrid and not much space for a big inverter so micro inverter is the only possible way. How can I prevent over production and blowing out my old inverter in low load and high production sunny day?

[@jhonarief]

Woooww you are the best tutorial about hybrid sistem i ever watch before, i got fully understand the sistem off hybrid protection.... Good job dude...btw why you using interlock switch rather than automatic transfer switch that what i'm thinking it more simple... Please explaine that to me

[@fvrrljr]

Photovoltaic / Solar Thermal Technician here... Well Done, you've even out done me, raises glass of beer in admiration. i Like, OLE!

[@kennethschultz6465]

You do know BYPASS DIODES right.. So a Guy like Wood Seem pretty stupid If he fell for the SERIEL PANEL'S WITH SHADDOWS WIL SHOT THE WHOLE STRING DOWN ... YOU CAN'T SERIUSLY CALL YOU SELF THAT .. AND DONT KNOW. THIS ???? IT Will not shot down the whole string Just bypass the shaddowed panel Same reduktion in watt as paralell But No freaking shut down ... Let's her hos skat you aculey are .. Doe's BYPASS DIODES. Bypass AFFECTED shaded areas on PANELS True Or False !!!!

[@fvrrljr]

Hmmm got an email from Kenneth Schultz . but his Channel doesn't have any content. I'll still answer this. but First lets read: Kenneth Schultz to Me... You do know BYPASS DIODES right.. So a Guy like Wood Seem pretty stupid If he fell for the SERIEL PANEL'S WITH SHADDOWS WIL SHOT THE WHOLE STRING DOWN ... YOU CAN'T SERIUSLY CALL YOU SELF THAT .. AND DONT KNOW. THIS ???? Me to Kenneth Schultz... You're Correct on the Bypass Diodes. Monocrystalline panels have those, if part shading will shut off that string. Also if Light is not distributed evenly and overheating. We experimented in a classroom with Simulated Sunlight. That panel didn't want to cooperate, 2 LED lamps were being focused in the middle of the panel and Zip, Nada. Then we added more LED lamps a total of 6 that shed light evenly and Voila' panel worked more efficient. First try the panel did produce voltage but wouldn't turn on the MPPT charger. Second try with 6 lamps it did what we intended to do. (wish I could post pictures here) Third try, we changed panel from Monocrystalline to Polycrystalline and it worked with part shading. They both have Pros and Cons. Yes we had micro inverters then we used optimizers. I'm not offended by your remark, why should I. it also serves as a learning tool for others where everyone benefits. I have installed some panels on RV's but I won't called myself a professional on that field. I've seen some installs that make me want to go deeper into that field. As I stated I admired FarmCraft 101's video.

[@brucemorgan9758]

I am Impressed .... Love the setup ! So the batteries only discharge when there is a powercut.. hopefully they will not eb fully charged all the time as that would reduce their overall lifetime

[@MrSummitville]

Actually, its is *BEST* for these Lead Acid Batteries to be fully charged at all times. Where did you get you bad information from?

[@Jonzuber]

I have a grid tied system with an emergency power generator that has a whole house ATS service rated transfer switch to operate everything when the grid is down. And was considering adding a battery bank connected to a separate inverter like you did.

[@khan5162608]

Brilliant stuff man. Very useful information.

[@nunoaquiles81]

Great video and great explanation.

[@jimheymann1821]

Hi Farmcraft I have the solargain as well and I actually bought a seperate solar panels through Ebay with seperate charge controller and using lithium battery 48 volts which supply all my garage needs using 8kw inverter and essential home needs if grid drop down

[@Edu-Rodriguez]

Really good video. Thanks for the information

[@ristopoho824]

I live in a small.... Crap i forgot the word for the house with multiple floors we learned it literally on the first english lesson.... house thing on a dense city area. I have a balcony, but too small to put just about any solar panels on. And the grid is just about never down. Or more accurately it's down a few times every summer, but gets fixed usually within half an hour. So. The point is. I have no practical need or the possibility to use anything i learn from this video. Or the other solarpowervideos i did watch the parts 1&2 and plan on watching that invest thing video too. I enjoy this. For no reason other than learning practical but unpractical things. And you never know i might move somewhere someday where i'll have the need for this.

[@hereforapurpose4922]

Fantastic video! Thanks 🙏

[@slifox2752]

Nice I’m trying something similar with nickel iron batteries and a hybrid system with the home power fuse box on a transfer switch to use grid tied enphase mini inverters or a outback inverter/ battery charger... for my off grid part...

[@TechneMoira]

I watched all three videos in this series and I found it very informative and it answered several questions I had while looking into PV cell installations and as such I gave you a thumb's up on each :) The battery backed-up system is "obviously" the preferred technical solution, but I'd say that it would bump up the overall price of your installation by several thousands of dollars, thus extending the period over which you would break even on your investment. Also, you failed to mention that each "component" of your installation (the inverter, battery charge monitor, panels, etc) has a limited lifespan. At best each device will slowly degrade in efficiency by a few percent per year, meaning there will be losses in power transfer (some of the produced power will be lost as heat, or batteries will be charged less). Worst case one or more components of your installation will simply "catastrophically" fail and will probably need replacing rather than repair. Safety wise I would not count on a 8.5 years break even period but rather a 10 to 11 year break even period just in case one or more components will EOL on you prematurely. In other words you're looking at a much steeper investment initially (or within the projected break even period of 8.5 years). If you intend to keep on living in your home for longer than 10 years after installation of your solar system, however, having a solar panel system (even with battery backup) still makes sense, notwithstanding possible degradation issues

[@Mark_Walsh]

We also went through this calculation when considering our setup (and decided against battery backup), you need to add in interest, ie if you invested the money instead of buying the extra equipment there would have been a return, and, over 10 years that may be quite large.

[@Mark_Walsh]

Sorry, I forgot to add... a great video and very informative. Thank you.

[@MrWtfover1]

well explained...I do have some Qs for you. First I have an existing grid tied Sunny Boy solar system of 2 strings of panels totaling approx.12kw. I have a 48vdc 15kw 120/240 split phase pure sine-wave inverter/charger with no MPPT solar charger with 640ah battery string. The inverter manual say's The 15000 watt inverter features Dry Contacts Providing Frequency Switch Between 60Hz / 62.5Hz as the secondary charge control of on grid inverter. It can control excess energy from the grid tie inverter when the battery bank reaches a voltage within the manufacturer’s limit. To accomplish this, you can use a voltage-controlled relay to close the dry contact to switch the output freq from 60hz to 62.5Hz, shutting off the grid tie inverter system temporarily. The paragraph end there with no explanation as to what I can do with that temporary shut off I want to set up the A/C coupled system, I am not sure what I need at this point. Do you have some suggestion or maybe a good source in which I can better educate myself in this area...any help is greatly appreciated.

[@parjacpar3077]

Thanks for proving to me that it is possible to have a grid tie system with a battery bank Been wondering if its possible for a few years

[@flyty2134]

Great video very informative thanks for sharing.

[@emeryrowand2903]

You should share this video with everyone in LA and Northern California that often have solar arrays and now have the electric company turning off the grid to reduce fire risk. This would be MUCH appreciated. I will post it to many friends in Santa Rosa.

[@navyretired230]

Great info, Thanks

[@sethbruins2472]

Great job!

[@geofferyromany4634]

really good. You get to keep your grid tied system.

[@chadthibodeaux8533]

This dude is awesome with info and prices

[@tubzvermeulen]

Thanks for the video

[@rustusandroid]

The way you are doing it is nice. I would suspect also that your batteries will last longer since they are not cycling everyday.

[@user-kn6sz8ji1j]

Thank you for your video. It was very helpful. God Bless.

[@carlossantini]

great videos! Can you do a step by step video installation of the whole system? A webinar type video for dummies!

[@GabrielSBarbaraS]

Thank you for the excellent vid's on solar and battery back up. When I lose power, I pull up my lawn mower near the house and plug the battery into a cheap 12 volt 2000 watt invert er and run a 12 gauge extension cord into the house to operate a few lights and maybe the fridge if the power loss is long enough. ( isolated from the grid of course ) Your method would be way to much investment for me just to have power when the grid goes down. Also you said you have a golf cart, if it was me I would pull up the golf cart and invert the 48 volts to 2 legs of 120. ( invert er investment though ) You already have the golf cart charger, just keep it charged while you have solar coming at you. I did however learn from you that a higher voltage from the solar array is better.

[@MaNwEMeLoDyAM]

😆THANK YOU SO MUCH THIS IS EXACTLY THE INFORMATION I WAS LOOKING FOR.

[@dphoenix1]

This is a five year old video so you probably won’t see this, but yeah, frequency alignment is a very important thing. For instance, when a generating plant comes online back before this was all automated, say a hydroelectric one, operators had to control the speed of the rotor to get the frequency super close to the grid, and then wait for the phase to perfectly align before throwing the switch. As soon as the contractor is closed, the rotor almost instantly gets locked to the grid phase, so if you throw the switch at the wrong time, the forces involved to lock the rotor to the correct phase are enough to cause significant destruction. I worked in a data center with a 2MW cat genset. Part of what we provided was 100% uninterrupted power at all times. During a utility outage, the UPS would take over while the genset spun up. Once it was stabilized, the ATS would monitor the frequency phase of the UPS and of the genset, and right when the two crossed, BAM, contactor closed, now we’re on generator power. Note that the genset frequency was kept extremely close to grid frequency, but off just slightly. If they were perfectly matched, the frequency sine wave of one versus the other would never move, so the phases would never align. And I guess I should say “waveS” seeing as the genset output 3 phase, I believe 440v, but I’ll stick with the singular since it’s easier to explain that way. The more difficult task was transitioning back to utility, just because the equipment wasn’t quite perfectly tuned for that scenario, but the same thing would happen: ATS monitors grid and generator phase, and when they meet, BAM, back on utility power. This never interrupted power to any of our customers, but the sensitive power distribution units would tend to throw frequency deviation alarms during the transition back. The other issue was the UPSes didn’t power the AC systems (think 15 units, 30 tons of cooling each, so they consumed a crap ton of power), so when utility dropped the first time, they’d go down with it, and then come back up with the generator, so that transition was easier. Going back to utility, they made the jump live with everything else, and the ACs usually weren’t super fond of that process. Anyway. I just said all that to support the idea that frequency and phase alignment is absolutely critical. Severe equipment damage can occur if this isn’t heeded, and I can promise it won’t be the utility company’s equipment that is damaged.

[@keithwayment1918]

Very cool setup. Most real time clock chips use a crystal oscillator and would not be affected by the input frequency changing. Curious what devices you found in your house that are affected by input frequency.

[@jmm3688]

This seems to be ingenious way to add batteries to your system!!!

[@ljprep6250]

You are correct that the inductive compressor motor takes a lot of juice to start up, often 4-8x the standard running amperage. But most compressors are built with unloader valves. When your compressor gets up to pressure, you will hear it shut off and you'll hear a hiss of compressed air released. This is the pressure coming off the compressor head so the motor doesn't have to work against it to start up the compressor. Interesting video.

[@stephenbeech7137]

THAT is good information to know!

[@marioshadjikyriacou3381]

Thank buddy!! Great video!!

[@alecgrolimond1678]

A very good video. We have 20 panels and a maximum of 5 KW out put but we get at peak times about 4.5 KW of power with no batteries yet and on the grid. We do have an an advantage we live in a very sunny and warm climate. It has been only 4 days since the install and after a few years consider a second system for providing energy at night and powering the grid. That would mean an extra 10 panels and Thailand has stated that they will have a buy back system in place this year. Depending on what they offer I will think about adding panels. However we are almost paying nothing now as I have taken meter readings every day and if after 30 days the power is = then we should pay 90% less the next month for the PEA electric bills.

[@DMahalko]

You can modify shop machines to work with low starting current. An unloader solenoid valve on an air compressor will dump the pressure at the outlet, and it will start easily. This is also possible with air conditioning but is more complex because you can't release the system pressure to the atmosphere.

[@williamhustonrn6160]

I was like you, wanted a way to use my solar when the grid is not connected, My solar system is on my RV, i installed grid tied invertor system because they are far cheaper than off grid setups, plus i wanted the ability to use it when not hooked up at rv parks and boondocking. So i use an old 1500 watt invertor combined with an interlocked circuit that i plug into the system running off the RVs 12v battery system, which pumps 120v into the system and tricks the grid tied invertor to allow me to use the solar. I only have 2 batteries in my battery bank, because i invested a bunch of money into batteries 6 years back and after 4 years over half the bank was giving me issues and since they were out of warranty it was a costly expense. Now i just have 2 high quality LiFePO4 batteries and use generator power when in dire need of power when no solar is available. The load on the 1500 watt invertor is only a few watts as the grid tied invertor overtakes the system. Before someone ask why i didnt just go with an offgrid system, i spend most of my days at RV parks with electric from the grid, but they charge you a lot for electric at many places, so with the grid tied system i can supplement my electric while at rv parks with the solar system. Most RVs at parks these days have all these solar panels on their rigs and none of it is being used while plugged into the grid, just letting the solar panels collect dust. also the solar panels on my roof ended up acting as a solar barrier from heat, after i installed the panels i noticed the RV doesnt get as hot and uses far less power running the a/c system to cool the RV, because the roof isnt being heated up by the sun anymore. I have solar running the entire length of my RV with an angled deflector upfront keeping the wind from going under the panels while in transport.

[@zazugee]

higher voltage is the way to go i have a standalone system in my home, i installed it myself i use the same idea as yours, with the coupled breaker, so i can switch between the standalone 24V inverter and grid power my system is a small 1000W one, so i use small 24V charge controlled but i know if i wanted a more powerfull 2000W i would pick 48V and for +3000W, i would need over +100V DC, but they are expensive A hybrid system above 3000W would be better with an AC bridge like yours

[@solarvillasor8137]

So Sir I can put up another hybrid inverter with existing grid tie inverter by just putting circuit breaker that when the sun goes down off the circuit breaker of the grid tie ang on the circuit breaker for the hybrid inverter so you have power from battery am I correct thanks ang please give me details of connection

[@zazugee]

@@solarvillasor8137 i wont answer this question because i have no idea what you are saying

[@johnjenkins9445]

im loving these diagrams :)

[@Electronzap]

Sounds good.

[@dougmcclelland7847]

Good video on AC-Coupled Solar setup. However if you know you would like to have battery backup as a requirement for the power system for the farm or house, It would be more economical for you to consider the solar PV systems from OutBack power. The one inverter / generator charger does it all in one unit. The whole system only has 3 major components the panels, the battery charge controller and the inverter. If you generate more power then you use, it will push it back to the grid, IF the power grid fails the inverter will power the house, off the batteries . In the event of low batteries, it will turn on a backup generator to charge and power the house.

[@davebutler3905]

Thanks for the info!!!

[@MegaMarclar]

nice setup. I would recommend getting those batteries up off the floor though.

[@drunkinone5969]

MegaMarclar that was true years ago when the batteries had cardboard in their casings. Today's technology makes it so it doesn't matter

[@MegaMarclar]

Drunkinone your right. I keep mine elevated and insulated mostly because of condensation. But I live in a cold environment 9mo out of the year.

[@drunkinone5969]

MegaMarclar good point. I never thought of that. :)

[@MegaMarclar]

I have noticed the condinsation builds up on the terminals, causing pre mature corrosion.

[@martynhughes8473]

You need them off the floor (think floods), also they need to be protected from moisture (need grease) and from accidental spills so they need to be contained in a housing with extractor fans. Similar to how large UPSs are constructed.

[@mrjones6501]

Cool set up I’m just finishing up a 30 kw inverter system 300v aims charge controller 5 solar arrays 680 volts per array 25 batteries in series 300 volts 100 amp hours for off grid system

[@Skashoon]

Clear as mud to me. I have a lot to learn.

[@ajarivas72]

The only component I know is the battery 🔋

[@jimgurley]

One question: When your transfer switch is off (e.g. when the grid is working), how do the batteries get charged? Maybe the "hybrid inverter" has separable AC in and AC out?

[@nandomancinas2563]

I was thinking the same thing

[@atif8672]

Yes, hybrid inverters have separate AC in and out. Some hybrid inverters have 2 AC outs one for regular load and one critical load as explained in the part 2.

[@pauldouglas5883]

Great system and it gives me lots to consider. Thanks. For safety sake: you have some open breakers in your panel..you really should install a cover or unused breaker in those slots to keep accidents from occurring.

[@dirk480]

Is this hybrid system safe for linemen? I thought one reason for grid based system was is would prevent a solar system from backfeeding the grid.

[@beforebefore]

at 5:34 he starts discussing the manual grid disconnect that resolves this

[@Bigreddogs2007]

@@beforebefore That's great as long as he is around to manually switch - what happens if he leaves this world and his family decides to sell. How does the new buyer deal with this setup? Not that I'm against this, just saying yes it works for him, but could be a problem for someone else since it's set up for manual operation. I have looked at property with home designed systems, some are easy to see proper operation and some are not. Would hate to hear that some lineman was killed because someone didn't have the background to properly operation a system.

[@connoryoung4589]

@@Bigreddogs2007 The manual grid disconnect(s) makes it physically impossible (or at least impossible without modifying the panel to remove the disconnect) to feed power from the battery backup to the grid, meaning no linemen will ever be endangered by this setup. This is a common approach used all the time in generator installs (he mentions that the manual disconnect on the house predates the battery backup and was originally installed for generator use. The battery inverter, from the perspective of AC loads and the grid, is really no different than a generator, so this safety device is well suited for the task.

[@nurrohman5260]

@@beforebefore . tv N .

[@smjones4238]

NICE! I have a 7.8kW grid tie solar system. I was wondering how to get the solar power to be usable during outages. I did not go to the 'solar wall' when I put the system in three years ago as it didn't seem financially sound at the time. My solar has made my electric bill $19 / Mo except for Feb/Mar/Apr. The house is currently 'all electric' as built. As I replace resistance heating with propane, that will change. I am now putting in a 25kW diesel genny in my shop and it will be hooked to all buildings on the farm. I am going to build in auto transfer to control the switching over during outages. This system will provide backup to two separately fed, two utility meters, so it will require two ATS systems, easy enough to do. I am still going to, experimentally, look into a battery system like yours. With the auto transfer system I am building, tying that in would be easy. I always wanted to do a wind turbine, but they are being put in the shadows by PV. Way too much maintenance required for the benefit at this time. Thanks for the excellent video, and thanks for sharing the knowledge and experience. The technology changes as we speak... Now Subscribed.. Michael in CO. I should have read some of the comments before I commented... You just have to ignore some of the breathlessly uninformed when they fire up their armchairs. Whew!

[@josephjohn907]

Nice one. How many Kwh do your Solar PV produce per year

[@allantaylor8907]

Great series of videos! Do you know if the Schneider backup inverter is compatible with a micro-inverter system? Looking to add battery backup to an already installed system but the system is a micro-inverter system so power at the panel area is already AC. Thanks

[@rebeltoharriganjr6158]

A midnite solar 250 charge controller will give you enough to run your whole array, one per 10 panels and eliminate the gridtied inverter. You would not have to manually manage your system. Lithium batteries are also awsome over lead acid, I made the move and loved them, no more smelly sulfur and watering, they also maintain a constant current under load unlike lead acid .

[@CaptainCrunch823]

Rebelto Harrigan jr thanks for sharing. What type of lithium batteries are you using? Manufacturer?

[@user-jv2yr6rs1t]

thank you for this