The BIG Agon light™ REVEAL! Meet the FASTEST and CHEAPEST 8-bit computer ever built

A through overview and demonstration of the newly-released Agon light™, a single-board, BASIC-programmed microcomputer that doubles as a standalone microcontroller board. For more details, see: www.thebyteattic.com/p/agon.html. Facebook development group: / agoncomputer .

[@Benwahwah]

The tune playing during the Space Invaders game is an 8-bit version of “Invaders Must Die” by The Prodigy. 😂 After watching this video I’ve ordered myself an Agon Light 2 from Olimex today. I am DETERMINED to finally write a text adventure in BBC Basic. I started when I was probably 10 years old, and it didn’t get very far. Now, 33 years later I will do it!

[@thebyteattic]

Wonderful!!

[@deterdamel7380]

The Agon Light has a * much * better design than the Commander X16. The only annoying is the return of the BASIC-zombie. But I think I'll to buy one of these (olimex-Version for about 55€).

[@levieux1137]

You've done an amazing job, that's excellent. BASIC still is great for education and for embedded systems because it's easy to debug/adjust in field. You've just shown how much more user-friendly the arduino experience could have been! And indeed the CPU is blazingly fast for a 8-bit one!

[@ben-and-maffy]

BASIC was meant to get everyone using a home computer in a time when people thought that home robots were next to come after the home computer. Everyone was to become computer literate and anyone could navigate space with BASIC.

[@beeshepard]

Looks great! Congratulations to you and the team. I don't know how you accomplish so much.

[@thebyteattic]

Cheers!

[@RichardHallas]

I LOVE the fact that this uses BBC BASIC. That was absolutely the PERFECT choice for a project like this. Well done.

[@thebyteattic]

Thanks!

[@retromodernart4426]

@@thebyteattic Great project! Can this Agon be made with an eZ80F91 @50MHz?

[@thebyteattic]

@@retromodernart4426 Yes, and we may very well do it ;-)

[@retromodernart4426]

@@thebyteattic 😀👍

[@SteveTeeIridium-Plus]

@@thebyteattic Please do! 🙏

[@paulspark7287]

I'm finding this really cool and interesting! I'm in the middle of my own 6502 homebrew computer which uses an FPGA for video and RAM access and I was thinking about porting BBC BASIC myself! I'm still tempted to try CBM V2 BASIC first since it's more lightweight and I'll be wanting to do lots of POKE commands initially.. but I am keen on building an Agon! I built a ColorMaximite2 ... so why not! Thanks for sharing the details - I'm always interested to see how things work!

[@TheErixcode]

That little monitor + agon light + keyboard + those speakers, I guess best 8 bit set I’ve seen so far ❤😂

[@gklinger]

This is truly incredible. I can't wait to get one!

[@mfratus2001]

This is pretty interesting. I was just casually looking for a chip with a VGA output to build a little computer with, and here you have it made already. I don't know about the 8-bit limit. I guess this will take a lot of study to see what it will do and whether cost can come down a lot. Raspberry Pi has really set a standard for cost. Great job!

[@another3997]

This and the Raspberry Pi are very different animals. If you don't specifically want an 8 bit machine, there are plenty of other options. But the Raspberry Pi is made in huge numbers, so benefits from economies of scale. The Agon will never be able to compete on power/price ratio alone. If you want to run Linux or maybe RiscOS, then the Pi is great. Assuming you can get one at a decent price.

[@tonystanley5337]

I wrote the same cube program in the 80s when I learnt O-level maths around it, the BBC micro updates around the same rate for wireframe in mode 0, but filling takes longer. I also did the Mandelbrot image and it took several hours.

[@thebyteattic]

Cool!

[@RetroDawn]

I love that you created this! It would be great if you could include, on the full Agon, an expansion port with all addr/data/control signals, and even include DMA and support for replacing/expanding the internal memory, like the Atari PBI/ECI.

[@thebyteattic]

We still flirt with this idea for Agon heavy. The problem is that bus expansions load the bus a lot with parasitic reactance and reflections, even if there's nothing connected to the expansion. And since we plan to run Agon heavy at 48MHz, that's an issue. The alternative is to put a lot of memory onboard by default (say, 2MB, perhaps more) and avoid the bus expansion. That also saves connector costs, which are relatively high, for some reason. We will see.

[@boelwerkr]

@@thebyteattic some pads on the edge (so you can stick a pin header on it or use an board-connector) with 8-bit address, 8-bit data, r/w and two select would be enough for 90% of all possible projects.

[@alexandermcalpine]

Great post. Thanks!

[@hstrinzel]

Very nice! The eZ80 is MUCH better than using an old Z-80 nowadays. Great that it's ALSO available for CP/M! Wow. I'll watch out where to buy one... THANK YOU!

[@martin-hall-northern-soul]

That's awesome! I wish we'd had these kinds of microcomputers, microprocessors and microcontrollers when we were growing up.

[@ntal5859]

We did, intel had 8051series its still about today and it was the bee knees in the 80s. Zilog had their Z8 microcontroller (yes Z8 not z80) .

[@martin-hall-northern-soul]

@@ntal5859 thanks for the tips, I wasn't aware of the Z8. The 8051 was a 90's discovery for me but it seems like the 70's was the golden age. I'm more of a casual than a diehard though tbh.

[@johnwilliams7999]

I had no idea the agon had such capable sound all the demo's I've seen have been like spectrum quality audio. This is so cool

[@damianvila]

Nice! Agon looks like a wonderful project, and one that particularly interests me. One thing Bernardo: I noticed dot named files on the sd card. Was that used with a Mac? If yes, there’s a nice free app called “Clean My Drive 2” by MacPaw (great Ucranian Mac programmers), that will clean the sd card before ejecting it. I used it a lot to clean sd cards I used with BASIC Engine. I hope it helps.

[@thebyteattic]

You're right, that SD card was loaded in a Mac. Thanks for the tip!

[@gloriahu8086]

That's a really incredible design!!!

[@joecan]

I like the old 8 bit stuff and use BMC64 for all my commodore nostalgia use ( PET/C64/C128/Vic20). I've been looking at some newer "8bit" option to play with (c65, Commander X16, etc) and I have to say this is the most compelling option for me. Thank you for all your work!

[@ben-and-maffy]

This is an excellent option for programming assembler in eZ80. Next step would be to use the machine code to run an eZ80 inside custom built robots with BBC BASIC.

[@ben-and-maffy]

20:47 This is what I was hoping for, so I can program microcontrollers, and interact with my circuitboards. I find it enjoyable to bit-bang microcontrollers with PUT with a home built programmer and binary codes from the data sheets.

[@ben-and-maffy]

12:18 In some reviews of the Agon vs CommanderX16 a bias for 8-bit photo display was given to the CommanferX16, but they failed to compare the vector capabilities to the Agon. I think that the speed of the Agon suits vector drawing from what I see here. Vector fonts, graphs, boarders, animations, etc., will make excellent GUIs for robotics development with the Agon.

[@thebyteattic]

Agon excels at vector graphics indeed. There is even a port of "Elite - The New Kind" for it, as you can see on the main website.

[@frnno967]

It is impressive. Two questions though, 1. Why was USB Type A used for the power connector rather than Type B? A to A cables are rarer than A to B., and 2. Why is the command syntax uppercase /case sensitive? But I hope someone develops a sidecar that adds comm ports, GPIO breakouts, and other cool stuff.

[@thebyteattic]

Thanks! I just hate USB B and microUSB... I find them flimsy and prone to mechanical failure. As for the upper case, that's legacy, I believe.

[@dannixon247]

@@thebyteattic 100% agree.

[@ben-and-maffy]

2:01 I would like to see what the 64 colors are with their assigned pallete values, so I can work on some art.

[@OzRetrocomp]

Congratulations on getting the Agon Light out there! It makes sense why there's an eZ80 CPU in there, but I can't help but wonder how much BBC Micro software could've been easily ported to the Agon Light it if had a 6502. Software written entirely in BBC BASIC should be simple enough to port. If anyone out there who knows 6502 assembly wants to learn/brush up on their Z80 assembly, please consider porting some of the Beeb software over the Agon Light. :D (I would but I wouldn't know where to begin with assembly... BBC BASIC is about my limit when it comes to coding!). That said, making a modern-day BBC Micro-compatible machine wasn't one of the Agon Light's goals, and it seems almost like a happy little accident that the Agon Light reminds me of a Beeb only if it had a Z80. This is high up on my wish list for hobbyist 8-bit machines once I get a bit more time to start putting one together.

[@thebyteattic]

Hopefully it can do a little more than just run the old BBC Micro software... It has a few more capabilities ;-)

[@beniscatus6321]

I wonder how well it would run the BBC chess program, which was pretty good at 2mhz. I used to absolutely love the 8 bit chess computers Fidelity Par Excellence and Novag Super Constellation machines on the 6502 (at 5mhz). If some genius could port them to this sort of machine, it would be a dream.

[@AlexEvans1]

I applaud that for your benchmarks, you compared against the version of BBC BASIC for the ZX Next making the comparison much more fair than using the very slow version of BASIC that is standard for the ZX Spectrum. Too bad that the other benchmarks you quoted are not using BBC BASIC on the ZX Next.

[@another3997]

But that's irrelevant, because the Speccy Next has it's own default language, as do all the other 8 bit machines. Why try and use anything other than the default language? Whilst there are a lot of versions of BBC Basic, it doesn't exist for a lot of platforms.

[@robprupe]

This looks really cool, Is there anywhere to buy complete assembled boards?

[@thebyteattic]

I'm sure there will be very soon! Keep on eye on the Facebook group.

[@robprupe]

@@thebyteattic Is there some kind of mailing list I can sign up to. I'm not a fan of Facebook and generally try and avoid it at all costs.

[@thebyteattic]

@@robprupe No, we're just hobbyists... But keep an eye open for updates to our website then (link in the description).

[@damianvila]

Ha ha! I dislike FB too, and closed my account many moons ago… I will take the opportunity to suggest again using Discord instead of Facebook. In my opinion is way better to build a community, and it’s easy to manage.

[@sl9sl9]

@@damianvila Another one here who strongly dislikes Facebook, deleted my account years ago due to bad experiences with privacy. It then randomly reactivated my account weeks later "in case I changed my mind". Like you I do use Discord though. This Agon Light is seriously great. A microcontroller with instant-on and GPIO controlled by BASIC? Yes please! It's almost perfect, just needs OPL2/3 sound to go with the amazing video :) Perhaps someone will make an OPL add-on for the GPIO? Or does the ESP have enough remaining CPU cycles to emulate it?

[@El_Croc]

Really cool project! My brain is whirring with a million ideas and questions. I'll just ask questions about memory used for now: how much of the 8MB ram and how much of the ESP's rom on the terminal side is used up already? And how much of the eZ80's ROM is used up? i.e. Is there slack unused space that can be used to bolt-on additional functionality to the base code and use some terminal memory for other things?

[@thebyteattic]

-- Less than half of the 8MB is used. -- Not sure how much of the ESP32's flash is used. -- Very little of the eZ80's flash is used, as BASIC resides on the uSD card. -- More functionality can be added by plugging an expansion tot he control port. There is still some board space left for circuit additions, if they can be routed.

[@El_Croc]

@@thebyteattic Great thanks for the info, keeping the basic on sd card gives a ton of flexibility. I was pondering how the ESP's ram could be made available to the eZ80. The spare eZ80 flash space and spare ram on the ESP is making me think of a small ISR / syscall-ed 4mb 'ramdisk' if there is also space in the ESP flash to implement. Not sure if there'd be much or any speed advantage versus the SD card because the links eZ80->ESP->psram are all serial, but perhaps if comparable then some wear and tear on the SD might be saved for temp file uses? Hmm, you said that the SD is on an SPI bus, so hugely faster than the UART serial can do. Still, 4MB is just begging to be used somehow!

[@travismoore7849]

This is a great setup, maybe it could work with 65c816 to maybe 386 and 486 processors with upgraded ram?

[@thebyteattic]

It surely will with a 65c816!

[@ben-and-maffy]

12:55 I am veryglad that you made this review, because in an other review thatc compared the Agon to CommanderX16, the KZbinr made a statement that the Agon can not do sprites. He gave the Agon great speed reviews, but claimed that bitmaps were hardly possible.

[@thebyteattic]

Agon can do any number of sprites, performance being the only limiting factor if one wants to fill the screen with a multitude of different sprites. Whoever said otherwise doesn't know what they are talking about.

[@joeshmoe000]

I'm curious why you didn't use the 50MHz CPU? Didn't have time to finish the video (watched 3/4 of it). It would be awesome to see compiled BASIC. I think one might already exist for the z80 platform.

[@thebyteattic]

The 50MHz eZ80F91 will be in 'Agon heavy,' alongside more memory, an RTC, and a few other upgrades.

[@GnuReligion]

First I heard of a eZ80F91. Just peeked at the datasheet. It is a strange bird. Looks like the reason for the chip is its built-in 100mps ethernet. You certainly make full use of 24-bit address buss pinned out on this 144-pin monster. A modern MCU with serialized RAM, providing services to a semi-modern hybrid MCU, that is backward compatible to an ancient CPU. "So we beat on, boats against the current, borne back ceaselessly into the past."

[@thebyteattic]

This is an eZ80F92, a smaller MCU. And there surely are plenty of applications for precisely this MCU (one of which is TI calculators), as it trades off clock speed for parallel buses. The resulting board is much easier to design without advanced, high-speed PCB manufacturing processes that are quite expensive compared to prototype manufacturing (which Agon light uses).

[@Choober65]

I'm seriously looking at getting one of these.

[@unRealityFPV]

very impressive!

[@thebyteattic]

Thank you!

[@spotterinc.engineering5207]

Hi, Great project. I looked into ordering the board assembled from PCBWay as you recommend on your web site and found it was a complicated to get assembly and components sourced. The ordering was not simple or clear. Could you make a video on how to order fully assembled boards - I am sure many would appreciate it.

[@thebyteattic]

Join the development group on Facebook, as other people there are ordering boards to re-sell, so it could be a better solution for you.

[@MrMpalmer33]

@@thebyteattic Any alternatives to Facebook? I don't like using them.

[@lubricatedgoat]

@@MrMpalmer33 Agreed. I never have nor ever will use Facebook. Is there somewhere else I could buy an assembled system?

[@RetroMarkyRM]

@@lubricatedgoat Also very interested in one but I won't use facebook.

[@shanepython]

The content, which is very impressive, aside. All creators should take a lesson from your use of very nice background music at a perfect volume level. This video is as soothing as it is entertaining and informative.

[@richardturnnidge]

I am a still a little confused about a few things. Yes, I'd like to program this in Z80 assembler. Hopefully some assembler will be available for this? The choice of BBC basic is good, but the BBC Micro had a 6502 processor, and you could embed 6502 assembly language in that. So, how does this work with a Z80 processor at its heart??

[@thebyteattic]

There are multiple assemblers, both native and cross-assemblers. Check the main website. BBC BASIC was first ported to the Z80 as early as 1987.

[@lovemadeinjapan]

Another question: does it work on a TV with 40 chars widht and 240-288 vertical lines (the smaller border on PAL the better)?

[@thebyteattic]

I have no idea.

[@whetphish]

I was just about to try and source the parts to build a CERBERUS 2080, and then I saw this and immediately ordered one from Olimex! This is just what I’ve been looking for - a Z80 BBC Micro on steroids with colour graphics! 😊

[@derekjc777]

Any benchmarks for the MEGA 64? It has a FPGA implemented GS4510 - related to the 6502/10 - that can run at up to 40 MHz! I presume it may be twice as fast as the Agon Light, but only because of the maximum clock speed.

[@thebyteattic]

Only benchmarks can tell for sure! But there are some things to consider. The eZ80 has a much, much more powerful instruction set than the 6502. And it is fully pipelined, which is unlikely the case with the MEGA65, as it would break compatibility. So regardless of clock speed, my prediction is that Agon would still be (significantly) faster.

[@derekjc777]

I have found one benchmark for the MEGA65 on the C64-wiki page: Synthmark64 score is 44.5x (C64 = 1x). So given the C64 completed the Battle Royal benchmarks in 3 mins 23 secs = 203 secs, the MEGA65 should complete the benchmarks in 4.6 secs, if all other things are equal. So this would make is comparable to the Agon Light, for speed. But at €700 it is not comparable for price, but that includes a case, keyboard and floppy drive. It’s much more of a luxury item though…

[@johnsonlam]

I bought an Aron Light and waiting to try it.

[@andrewdunbar828]

I'd love something like this that has both a Z80 and a 6502 with neither crippled. Both don't necessarily have to be able to run at once though.

[@thebyteattic]

Yes, that's CERBERUS 2080, which has both a Z80 and a 6502: www.thebyteattic.com/p/cerberus-2080.html

[@andrewdunbar828]

@@thebyteattic Wow! You're the first to say something other than "C128 did that" or "It's too hard to do". Thanks for the link!

[@mobluse]

Which is the maximum string length in this version of BBC BASIC?

[@thebyteattic]

I don't actually know. Dean Belfield is the firmware developer. But whatever the answer is right now, it will evolve.

[@dazealex]

Is there a C compiler for this, and libs for gfx? If so, I'm getting one.

[@thebyteattic]

There are at least two C/C++ cross-compilers (they don't run natively). I'm not sure about gfx though... People on the developers' group (Facebook) can answer this.

[@wortausbruch]

I got my Agon Light 2 from Olimex some days ago. Eventually, I found the time to try it out and ran into a problem with the keyboard. I have copied the BASIC interpreter to an SD card, and when I start the board, it immediately enters the BASIC interpreter. Unfortunately, I could not get the keyboard working. I tried four different USB keyboards, and I've also tried a PS/2 keyboard (Periboard-401) with a USB adapter. None of them worked. The USB port emits power because some keyboards have LEDs lit up when I connect them. Still, I cannot type anything. What am I doing wrong? Is there a list of supported keyboards somewhere?

[@thebyteattic]

Yes, you may seek support/advice over at the forum: facebook.com/groups/agoncomputer You must use a PS/2-compatible USB keyboard. Not every USB keyboard is so.

[@thebyteattic]

I am told that this works: facebook.com/groups/agoncomputer/posts/1169999457034768 I use this: www.amazon.com/Keyboard-Portable-Professional-Industrial-Computer/dp/B07DZZWD9W

[@mobluse]

How do you flash the Z80 if e.g. you want to change to CP/M from BBC BASIC?

[@thebyteattic]

github.com/envenomator/Agon/tree/master/Programs/flash

[@mobluse]

@@thebyteattic That's cool! So you only need the special eZ80 programmer cable if you have a blank Z80 (or with completely wrong firmware), otherwise you can upgrade using only the microSD card and some commands?

[@nysaea]

This machine is so neat!!! :o

[@Gravitar]

How many triangles per sec is it on Agon Light in Mode 0 (640x480)?

[@thebyteattic]

No idea! A lot.

[@mickeythompson9537]

I'd be interested to know if the UART can be configured to send MIDI.

[@thebyteattic]

I actually don't know... not versed in MIDI myself

[@deang5622]

MIDI never used dedicated chips, IIRC. It always was implemented as just an off-the-shelf UART. All UARTs allow the number of start and stop bits to be configured and data rate. MIDI uses one start and one stop bit and 8 bit word and a speed of 31.25kbps. So as long as the speed can be set correctly, I don't see why not. MIDI was really more about the message protocol just sitting on top of an off-the-shelf UART.

[@metatechnologist]

The great thing is this is open source so the community might can add that functionality!

[@WX4CB]

BUT CAN IT PLAY CHUCKY EGG!!!!! :D BTW, the commander X16 is close to release according to the 8bit guys youtube channel the other day :D

[@thebyteattic]

Yeah, I guess the man needs a reason to ask for some money ;-)

[@ninjazhu]

Can you make a VDP only half wtih the serial header so other systems can use that half?

[@thebyteattic]

I didn't quite understand what you mean...?

[@ninjazhu]

@@thebyteattic your block diagram shows the audio and video (you called it the terminal half) and the computer half - the terminal half if connectible to a very fast serial port of another system (e.g. Amstrad CPC) could perhaps be used as a graphics card.

[@thebyteattic]

Oh, I see what you mean. That's possible: on the control port of Agon light there is an eZ80 UART of the exact same type as the UART that connects the eZ80 to the ESP32. So the system can be extended, as you proposed, via the control port.

[@cregams]

I imagine this would go very well with my 1994 VGA CRT. Can't solder for shit though, so I have to hope that sometime soon a seller will appear. Would it be economical for someone to sell fully assembled boards for about 50euro?

[@thebyteattic]

There are already sellers in the UK and down under. Check out the Facebook group. As for the price, no, $50 is the cost of making it, not the sales price. Think more ~$100 once you count import fees and margins.

[@krakulandia]

What graphics modes does Agon Light have?

[@MrDarchangelomni]

You do know the X16 has started shipping right, 1st run dev boards are already out, and second run production boards are being assembled, packaged, and shipped... I am not sure if the first consumer board has shipped, but i know the first and many more consumer boards have been built.

[@thebyteattic]

I'm sure it will be very successful.

[@GraemeWoller]

I saw today the 8bit guy had a new video up with a bit of an update on the Commander X16. Still nowhere near as fast as Agon, but nice to hear that it's still going ahead.

[@GraemeWoller]

@@stanb1455 different user base as well, for the most part.

[@max-fastwalker]

​@Graeme Woller 8bit guy's machine has FM chip, built-in joystick ports, and, I believe, more powerful graphics. Overall, his machine stays closer to the original 8-bit computers. I hope they will finish they work soon.

[@lohikarhu734]

It would be, for me, much nicer to have a M68HC11 version of the cpu, as it has true 16 bit math, 8 x 8 multiply, and better addressing modes and registers. With new process, the HC11 architecture could probably run 20 to 30 MHz clock... there's also a real time BASIC for it, which, with 4 MHz clock ran 20,000 for next per second, and had quite a few possible interrupt sources...

[@user-fx6tp3gs8s]

Bernard Kastrap. This guy's incredible

[@ArunavsTravelDiary]

What is the yellow cable for on your wrist?

[@thebyteattic]

Anti-static protection

[@lovemadeinjapan]

Probably rolling with a office chair over a plastic sheet to protect the vinyl floor, turning it into a Tesla Coil chair.

[@RudysRetroIntel]

Wow!! Simply amazing work and video!! Do you think that other versions will made? I'm thinking of the Apple IIe or II+

[@thebyteattic]

Thanks! Let's see how this board does. If it does well, I will develop Agon Heavy at some point.

[@0toleranz]

Hi Bernardo, very impressive work! I always liked the BBC basic and it’s features and I think this little gem has a lot of potential still by optimizing the interpreter to fully use the hardware! I tried ordering an Agon1 from PCBWay but the project you set up seems to be not correct. The ordering process detects a 2-layer board 1,6mm and I didn’t check further what else may be wrong there. For convenience I wanted the full Monty - so all being assembled for me or at least everything except that THT stuff. Could you please check what’s going on there for all thatlike to do the same. Or is there already a group buy which is cheaper than the around 120€ for a one of. Thanks for this great project!

[@thebyteattic]

I agree that more can be extracted from this machine with more optimizations! Regarding the PCB order, you are more than likely using the "quick order" option. That doesn't work for anything beyond a vanilla 2-layer board. In the Agon website I provide a direct link to the project at PCBWay, so that should eliminate some of the issues. Perhaps PCBWay will even sell the whole thing assembled at some point. For now, your best bet is to join the Facebook developers group (link in the video description) and pool resources there. I know of at least one person in the UK who has already ordered 50 assembled units.

[@fred-9929]

Is Facebook the only community group around Agon Light?

[@alexany4619]

Which kind of sound processor is implemented? AY 389-12 or some related?

[@alexany4619]

AY-3-8912 😅

[@thebyteattic]

The sound processor is a core within the ESP32-PICO-D4.

[@thebyteattic]

@@alexany4619 We do not use any parts that are not currently in active manufacturing.

[@alexany4619]

@@thebyteattic Yes, but which cababilities does this sound processor have? How many channels, FM sound, etc.?

[@thebyteattic]

Look up FabGL. We use FabGL for both video and sound.

[@alexany4619]

Is besides the sprites also soft scrolling implemented?

[@thebyteattic]

Yes. See e.g.: twitter.com/BreakIntoProg/status/1584650519334699010

[@alexany4619]

Great! 👍😃

[@ElektroLUDIKITS]

I want one! 😍

[@randyjackson7584]

does that usb also act as serial port?

[@thebyteattic]

It can, but this is not incorporated into the official firmware yet. Somebody has implemented it successfully, and it is in the to-do list to consider.

[@microhobbyist]

What is it that makes the Agon so fast?

[@thebyteattic]

A 3-stage pipelined CPU running at over 18MHz, a graphics co-processor, with its own video memory, which offloads the CPU of all video bit-banging, a high-speed serial link between the two, etc.

[@tenij000]

what is the orientation of U1

[@thebyteattic]

See page 25 of the Hardware Manual: github.com/TheByteAttic/AgonLight/blob/main/Agon%20light%20R1.0%20Manual.pdf

[@MrDarchangelomni]

I would suggest in the future, to convey how fast your design is, just say how many instructions it can execute per clock cycle. This removes confusion and quickly shows if the design is efficient, without talking about megahertz or adjusted clock speeds to compare chips... every cpu has a baseline instructions per clock number, and from that number you can derive real world application speed for any given bus frequency.

[@thebyteattic]

This doesn't work, otherwise nobody would need to perform benchmarks. One can only state an average of cycles per instruction (not instructions per cycle, unless you have a VLIW or Superscalar CPU exploiting instruction-level parallelism, which is not the case here, nor for any 8-bit CPU, unless we're talking about my own Talos ES). Application performance depends on bus contention, control flow constraints like conditional branches, hazard detection (for RISC CPUs), memory access latency, interrupt requests for I/O, etc. If one wants to know the system's performance for a given, representative application, the only way to figure that out is to run the application and measure it.

[@aka_vitfil]

What keyboard are you using?

[@thebyteattic]

MC Saite PS/2-compatible USB keyboard: www.amazon.com/stores/page/4D5C7A2B-0523-4497-93ED-DD71E6120530

[@Kerveros1904]

is it compatible with binary files of any of 8 bit systems? if yes with which system is compatible ?

[@thebyteattic]

No, it's a modern machine.

[@Kerveros1904]

@@thebyteattic thanks for the information mate! The hardware is very interesting, and very useful. It proves that in these times in which you have to be an expert in IDEs just to write some code, you do not need to do so. Not C, but even good old basic is enough to cover a large variation of applications provided the fact that the hardware is fast enough to do it. And this board is very capable. I just had a fantasy for a moment in my previous question, that maybe it could run binaries and bas files of CPC 6128. But we cannot have it all! :)

[@deang5622]

Binary files but not ASCII files?

[@tenij000]

is hard to solder the ps2_port your self ?

[@thebyteattic]

Not at all, it's a through-hole part with less than a dozen pins.

[@lovemadeinjapan]

Can it run a different basic? BBC Basic has some serious issues, for example a quintessential thing that it does not recognize basic commands in lower case, has no list command, en no edit command. I would vote for CPC Basic. Or an extended version of Philips P2000 Basic.

[@thebyteattic]

It can run any BASIC people port to it; right now it is BBC BASIC. It does have both LIST and EDIT commands.

[@matthewsheeran]

You got to remember that the Z80 wouldn't have a floating point coprocessor so the CPU is doing all the math calculations with instructions not hardware on an 18MHz clock. BTW someone needs to port or write an "Asteroids" for the BBC Basic!

[@blorbb5398]

Can it be programmed in C, C++, ASM?

[@thebyteattic]

Yes

[@salvadorlimones1811]

I preordered the Olimex version of the Agon light yesterday. Looks very promissing. Is there a website/forum (other than Facebook) where Agon light projects and software are being listed and discussed? There is one thing that bothers me, though. Is the serial link between the CPU and the ESP32 fast enough for transferring the huge amount of pixel data that a decent late 80's - early 90's game would require?

[@thebyteattic]

Yes! Forum: facebook.com/groups/agoncomputer Website: www.thebyteattic.com/p/agon.html

[@RhoTrepaan]

ehm... where can i get one? i can solder a bit, but the cpu looks out of my league. Still, I would buy it as a kit.

[@thebyteattic]

There are links to sellers on the main website!

[@wayland7150]

Excellent that it runs BBC BASIC.

[@svenvandevelde1]

Heel goed! Waar woon je? Erg interessant

[@tenij000]

how do i order 1 complete done ?

[@thebyteattic]

We're listing sellers in the official website

[@tenij000]

@@thebyteattic do got link for that website

[@tenij000]

this is cool

[@iarpanbose]

Where is Composite video output?

[@lovemadeinjapan]

You don't want, but I hope it allows hooking up a VGA to SCART RGB adapter. Then you can always downgrade that signal to composite if you like.

[@kcinplatinumgaming2598]

just shows how the older 8 bit platforms like the z80 and 6502 are still being used to this day and stronger than ever,, non emulated genuine hardware systems .. very good demo .. nice to see Richards BBC Basic still being used .. I think he told me about 2 years ago, he said hes more or less retired but good to see people using what he developed, his programming language has evolved into something far more advanced now and leaves the original language that Acorn developed in the dust, I like the z80 chip package!

[@ben-and-maffy]

z80 and 6502 were meant to lead us into the robotics age where we open them up and see our childhood home computers. With BASIC and the familiar assembly code that we learned after that, most home robots would be modifiable by anyone in the neighborhood. Everybody can be computer literate, and dream big again.

[@janPolijan]

Simple, fast, cheap. The Agon Light looks amazing! I hope it will gain popularity. eZ80 for the win. I wonder if it could run SymbOS ? In terms of Basic, I very fondly remember the "Locomotive" Basic at the heart of the Amstrad CPC as it was full-featured and way ahead of all the other 8bits of the era in giving commands to create multiple "screens"/"windows" and providing very easy access to the machine's resources (graphics, full sound system, interrupts, simple file management, ...) with simple commands.

[@beholder2012]

I actually would like to replace that BASIC with Forth rather. I wonder how difficult it can be. But anyway at first I have to buy the thing to become more acquainted with it. :)

[@DAVIDGREGORYKERR]

*I AM "your name" *PSSWD "your password"

[@SquallSf]

I don't understand how exactly the normalization for clock speed was done?

[@thebyteattic]

Multiply the raw result by the system's own clock speed, then divide the outcome by the highest clock speed among all systems. For instance, for Agon, if the raw result was 0.5s, then we do 0.5 x 18.432 / 28 (28MHz is the highest clock speed, for the Spectrum Next in turbo mode).

[@SquallSf]

@@thebyteattic I see how numbers are calculated. Thank you! Isn't it enough to simply multiply by the clock? That will gave the time if you have 1mhz - a common base for all platforms. BTW is there a video or link with details of graphic capabilities? Like modes, resolution, is it tile, linear, planar,... sprite size and format, layers, H/V scroll, DMA, ... Also I'm not fan of FB, is there a discord server?

[@ecernosoft3096]

I hate to break it, but that's a 32 bit thing. Still, cool system!

[@thebyteattic]

The bit-width of a system is determined by the width of the CPU's data bus. That's why the 6502 and the Z80 are 8-bit processors, even though they have 16-bit address buses. The ESP32 has an internal data _path_ of 32-bits, but no external memory buses (external memory access is serial, via SPI, so essentially a 1-bit 'bus'). Moreover, the ESP32 is not the CPU in this system, but a video co-processor instead, which does not define the bit-width of the system. The eZ80, which is the CPU, has an 8-bit data bus. So Agon is, literally and unreservedly, an 8-bit system, for exactly the same reason that any other 8-bit system is an 8-bit system. There is no ambiguity or subtlety here.

[@ecernosoft3096]

@@thebyteattic hmmm I guess you are right then.

[@michaelcloutier2225]

A lot of the performance comes from the fact that the EZ80 Has a radically improved architecture, including Triple instruction pipelines and a lot of other under the hood improvements And optimizations.

[@Mellz900]

Not fpga?

[@thebyteattic]

None. A $4 EPS32 does all the graphics, sound, and video, being programmed in C.

[@KazenStudio]

This toy is a good reason to learn Z80 assembly 😅 I was looking into the 6502 project which used a Raspberry Pico as the terminal/VGA/keyboard module… but a fast eZ80F92 is just too awesome to ignore.

[@jediknight2350]

awesome now make a tiny 8086 for me.

[@kilianhekhuis]

"Here's 1 hour and 3 minutes of awesome" last 8 seconds: "oh, you can't buy it" 😄

[@thebyteattic]

I'm sure there will be many sellers soon!

[@KGE64]

A native port of BBC basic on the ESP32 itself would probably be even faster, or even a Z80 emulator.. Still a nice project. 👍

[@thebyteattic]

It most definitely wouldn't. ;-) The ESP32 is by and large a serial controller, not a CPU. I thought I had explained this in the video, but clearly I failed. People who claim an ESP32 is a 32-bit CPU just don't understand processor design. The ESP32 doesn't even have external parallel buses; not even of 8 bits... There's a reason it costs so little. It was designed with Tensilica tools, my old competitors when I founded Silicon Hive (now part of Intel), so I know a thing or two about those cores. But hey, those who disagree with me are free to design their own computer with an ESP32 for CPU! I wish them luck. 🙂

[@KGE64]

@@thebyteattic Hi, just tried porting one of my Z80 emulator projects to the ESP32 (WROOM @240 MHz) and ran BBCbasic 2.20. With a Basic test BM1 (see kzbin.info/www/bejne/hpSpi4iArNKhh5Y) it runs at a speed comparable with that 10 MHz Z80 from the video. The emulator code is compiled with the Arduino IDE. What do you think?

[@thebyteattic]

@@KGE64 The eZ80 is not a Z80. Not to mention the fact that we would lose all GPIOs, I2C, SPI, etc., if we dropped the eZ80 for the ESP32. And that is if we don't take into account the fact that the ESP32 (and its serial external memory) is busy with the real-time task of generating the video signals, including the precisely-timed syncs.

[@KGE64]

@@thebyteattic Thanks for your answer. What about the other core in the ESP32 (I used the WROOM 32E)? And the ESP32 has also I2C/SPI/CAN/UART etc. I understand the realt ime nature of the video generation makes it tricky but I will fiddle with this concept some more. I found some videos already of people running Doom and even Windows on the ESP32. There is an adapter board available with PS2 mouse and keyboard sockets, HP jack and a VGA connector.

[@julias-shed]

@@KGE64 I think they use the second core for audio.

[@eliasgeorge8534]

Puts my unfinished 10 MHz home brew 6502 to shame. We’ll done.

[@thebyteattic]

Time to finish it then!!

[@kameronpeterson3601]

The irony of taking digs at the X16 mere days before it released

[@thebyteattic]

Released? To whom? All I saw was a highly bodged prototype, an admission to still have to change as much as a major chip and surrounding circuitry, no case, a very underwhelming demonstration, and -- most remarkably but predictably -- pleas for money with nothing given in return. The irony of calling that a release (four days after Agon's actual release, which is an interesting... 'coincidence') is quite delightful. I just don't know what they've been doing for 4-5 years. But even if that monstrosity had been released, I feel very comfortable taking digs at it, for more reasons than just the overwhelming performance (+ 3-5x) and cost (- 10x) advantage of Agon. More to come! ;-)

[@Brian-vs9sd]

@@thebyteattic That was a strange request. A Kickstarter campaign I can understand, but asking for money from people with nothing in return is a bold and strange one.

[@thebyteattic]

@Brian, those with the eyes to see will see ;-). And a bunch of others won't...

[@thebyteattic]

@Wavicle, is he going to manufacture and sell your board? Why do you think I am talking about your board and not what the 8-bit guy is developing? Moreover, frankly, your board, with daughter-cards, is even more... peculiar for such a nail-simple system. It's like you guys WANT to make it a lot more complicated than it needs to be, a strange approach to engineering...

[@huseman21]

who is selling them?

[@steelbrotherhoodof2359]

9:05 a classic mistake. you do not want to make a infinite loop going back to 20. instead you want to add the line 25 if inkey$ "" then system or 25 if inkey$ then chr$(0) goto 50 wich will get you OUT OF THE LOOP AFTER A KEY PRESS. AND NOT POSSIBLE BRICK THE SYSTEM. that kind of fast code. maybe skips your break keys. so add an OUT OF THE LOOP function manually. pretty please. end that %#%@% loop. going loco.

[@Astinsan]

so basically a bus pirate with a terminal built in?

[@MattOGormanSmith]

I miss BASIC, but not line numbers and single line editors.

[@stephenwalters9891]

Two things that would be cool, CP/M and FORTH. Just saying.

[@DAVIDGREGORYKERR]

I think that a ZILOG Z8000 would have been a brilliant processor and give you access to UNIX that was compiled for the ZILOG Z8000.

[@mrfarts5176]

Yes we absolutely need to program more things in basic.

[@deang5622]

Because programs are better with line numbers...

[@shaurz]

I think the X16 is eventually coming, 8-bit guy made a recent video update about it.