The BIG Mistake I see in A LOT of Army Lists! | Warhammer 40,000

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[@rileyernst9086]

Mordian Glory indepemdently discovers why a platoon is the smallest amount of troops you should send onto a task, and why tanks come in squadrons/troops of 3-4, through the medium of a tabletop dice game.

[@richardseaton6390]

Sod's law; your choppiest boys will fail their charge, your newly painted model will go out first round and you'll lose the roll-off for first turn!!

[@dragonflameprouductions1062]

This is literally every game I play lol

[@paskoracer_4644]

This happend to me my entire first game. Exept for once. My last primaris intercesor took fire from 20 plauge guards, 3 terminators, and a flying thing and LIVED. He missed like, almost every shot

[@AndrBR0]

Benefits of plot armour

[@chrisgoodier6825]

“Two is one, one is none” - Dave Canterbury

[@deanwalker2027]

This is more vindication than I deserve for playing triple dorn

[@jameskurth3560]

How well do they handle? I'm new to this edition and haven't played guard since sixth. I was unsure how they performed next to the same points in russ or malcador tanks.

[@deanwalker2027]

@@jameskurth3560 I've found that they stand up very well, 2+ save and a 4++ if you're able to spend 45 pts on top of the 260. I personally think they look sick AF and they kick ass on the table, I'm talking wiping a whole knight off one round of shooting from one (lucky) Rogal.

[@funghazi]

​@@jameskurth3560 Russes have been treating me really well, they can fight and win against anything but the hardest targets.

[@nickbilske8140]

Rebuilding my guard i sold around 6th, want to run 9+ russes

[@rollielc]

You should do 2-3 more videos on this to really drive home the redundancy

[@maxmagnus377]

I think this may come down a little bit to Guard being in quite a luxury position where especially their now relatively cheap Leman Russes are like swiss army knives on a budget. You'll have a big main heavy hitting cannon, a lascannon or 2, some heavy bolters/stubbers and some plasma thrown in, all on a relatively durable chassis. As an Eldar player, I constantly have to make choices and cut corners. Everything costs a fair chunk, and everything really only ever does one job. It'll do that job spectacularly well, don't get me wrong, but it'll do it... once. Just as an example: Fire prisms have a phenomenal anti-tank weapon, but it's on a T9 3+ chassis at 180 points. If Eldar were to try and go by a "rule of 3" list setup, they'd first of all find out that nothing they have holds primaries very well, and secondly that they run out of points by the time it gets to the last consideration they want to make for list building. Another army I play, Sisters, mostly lacks reliable anti-tank altogether. Vahl + Paragons with MMs are the only real threat they have that could, provided they're ignored by the opponent, ruin tanks on a turn by turn basis. Retributors out of an Immolator can do it once but will then most likely be in a position where a bit of throwaway heavy bolter equivalent fire wipes them out. More armies will run into these issues of being either strapped for choices or strapped for space in their lists. By that point they'll be looking at the meta, seeing that green tide/bully boyz is strong right now, and think "Welp... if I'm gonna cut corners it's gonna be in the anti-tank area and just pray I don't run into Leman Russ spam."

[@ProxyHammer1]

Hey there 😉

[@maxmagnus377]

@@ProxyHammer1 Heyoo xD

[@noplz2456]

spot on analysis imo. Guard players are genuinely spoilt with their choices and points costs, because too many have focussed on their indirect for nerfs while ignoring how egregiously undercosted some of the armour is. Heres a quick comparison to prove the point : leman russ, rogal dorn, and tank commander - 500 or so points. 3x that = 1500 and have plenty spare for your cheap infantry. as an opponent, how can i ever "have enough redundancy" to deal with that amount of genuinely threatening armour? i would need at absolute minimum five anti tank units that can reliably kill leman russes. Most armies couldnt even bring 5 such units at 2000 points level. Then i need to consider i may play against a list with 120 boys, or gaunts.... i cant exactly also tech into handling 6 tank models that are T11 W13 2+ that cost my opponent 900 pts. guard tank lists being an anti tank stat check? who'dathunk?

[@Sha_Bingus]

Guard and eldar have different playstyles, Eldar rely on not being hit in the first place with all their unit rules and design feeding into that. So not really sure how applicable Mordian's advice is beyond just the Guard. Also Sisters have Miracle Dice that can turn any random multimelta into flat 8 damage, so anti-tank can be wherever you need it to be 😉

[@maxmagnus377]

@@Sha_Bingus Eldar relying on not being hit might have been a thing before they nerfed phantasm twice, but there really aren't enough command points to go around gambling on D6" reactive moves. Fire and Fade is great, albeit expensive. I think by now it's more a case of either being really damn good at trading with your very powerful but very limited resources or going down in a ball of flame xD And yeah Sister's miracle dice are great for big damage melta shots, but the infantry carrying them hit on 4s (heavy) and then wound on 5s on any tank that isn't a Dark Eldar skimmer, so not very reliable at all.

[@DeathsOrigin]

“The enemy gets a vote, too”

[@shinjofox]

It is easier in some armies than in others based mainly on points. Having a back up does have to mean the exact same unit , just a unit that can deal with a similar target.

[@ThreeSeatStarboard]

“A good plan violently executed now is better than a perfect plan next week.” Patton was a Guard Commander and he knew what he was talking about. If your list goes thin and wide on unit type variety to have a hard counter for every eventuality then the game is essentially won or lost in deployment: if your hard counter is exposed early and destroyed, or placed out of position and ineffective, the enemy will roll up the rest of your army. Even if it finally starts getting to work on Turn 3, that's two (or three!) turns the enemy has had to use its critical elements. Redundancy moves the win/loss from deployment into the battle rounds: does additional depth make up for the absence of the hard counter? Maybe, maybe not. But if your opponent's list went wide then you know what to do: negate their hard counter with firepower or maneuver and roll up the rest of their army!

[@rileyernst9086]

Patton? LOL.

[@jimsutter2748]

Redundancy in units is less important for a unit that you can reliably put onto a target. Even in my very redundant guard, I really like working in a single min sized Scion squad.

[@adeaphon9696]

Coming at this from a non guard perspective, many factions' units are too expensive to spam. You can't afford three units of exalted eightbound and have enough other units to play the game, even though I want to.

[@jameskurth3560]

Agreed. I play eldar as well as guard. When 5 shadowy specters, warp spiders, or fire dragons cost nearly as much as a 20 strong guard group it's rather hard to bring 3 groups. On the bright side I can run 3 falcons, 3 swooping hawks, and 2 war walkers. So at least I can score and destroy vehicles easy enough after losses.

[@Sha_Bingus]

I'm not sure Mordian is meaning for this advice to be applied to armies other than Guard.

[@jameskurth3560]

@@Sha_Bingus He mentions orks and necrons at least as armies where not having redundancy was a flaw. I experience the same with eldar. It's not nearly as fixable as it is with other armies though.

[@davidgantenbein9362]

The rule of three is definitely meant for Guard or similar armies that have these options cheap. Elite armies like WE are supposed to perform better per unit, so less is ok. But even with an army like WE, it’s not bad to think about redundancy of maybe twice the most important unit as opposed to once. And then keep in mind that redundancy is more about roles/tools than specific units, so you may not need three units of exalted eightbounds, but at least another unit that can take over if your exalted eightbounds exit too early.

[@joshuasutherland6692]

Or don't take the exact same of three models but take three units that fill the same niche in different ways.

[@catherinedalzell3183]

Good point, especially for space marines.

[@zombiesue1054]

If you've got one you've got none.

[@nomadzophiel]

Over a lot of the older editions, several of the most effective armies that I remember seeing were made of three identical mini-armies of 500-600 points with the remainder used for commanders and unique units. You don't get all of the flashy models at once but if you build with a solid strategy in mind, it's very hard to stop.

[@Lomhow]

Guard has good reliability as an army. You can cram up the board with cheap guardsmen and take big tanks. You can roll deep strikers with aircraft. You can vaporize the board with artillery and then drown it in walkers.

[@JaySharp604]

There's also the factor of people not wanting to buy multiple of one dataslate. Who wants three units of Eradicators, or 3 Gladiator Lancers? Or even who can afford those, especially when GW will just nerf them in the next 6 months. Or worse, just take them completely out of the game.

[@davidgantenbein9362]

If you play more elite armies, two of the same or maybe two different units that fulfill the same role is often enough. Quick reminder that he is playing Guard, some of his options aren’t very mobile and he just has to acknowledge that his enemies can pick their choice of targets. Imo for SM a lot of the „should take three“, just become „should take two“. His PM example is specifically noteworthy as he takes the core unit of DG, not their expensive specialists, at 3+. Obviously that works as PM are designed to be the core and can be built for more than one role.

[@liammorgan1413]

A lesson to be applied in any wargame, really. Just in Horus Heresy alone, I remember having it drilled into my head that no take-all-comer army should ever be short of at least 5 AT options spread across its forces (even if it's down to token pintle-mounted multi-meltas on dedicated rhino transports), and with at least half of those options being long range. Suffice to say that it's been pretty fascinating to see how many times people struggle to deal with a mechanized list on account of stacking all of their AT into one or two units when their opponent has brought upwards of 7-8 vehicles (most of which being cheap transports), with nothing to say about the infantry support/occupants alongside them.

[@drexmartell9803]

There are rumors going about where there will be a "tax" for picking multiples of a specific unit that is not battleline or a dedicated transport. This is currently a rule being implemented in AoS -- how do you feel this would go in the field of balancing the current 40k scene? How many different unit options would you say an army would need to be in a healthy position?

[@thegeneralscall]

I would say depends on the tactic you're going for. Sometimes it can be advantageous to bring just a single model if it's a red herring. The classic Distraction Carnifax. If you bring multiple of these big units, it can diminish the psychological impact of that unit, whilst costing points you could put into more effective units. It is a point game after all for objectives. Take a knight and jump pack infantry as an example. You could take 3 knights or 1 knight galant and some jump pack infantry. That one knight is now a major threat that needs removing less it get into the enemies line and do damage, but it won't win the game. It will though require the enemies attention whilst your jump infantry do the actual scoring. Meanwhile 3 knights, whilst still being a threat, are huge point costs that'll have to focus on scoring and that can be focused one by one and destroyed.

[@scottsbarbarossalogic3665]

I think the thing for more elite armies to have redundancy in the roles, if not the specific units You are likely to have a few anti tank options that flex into other roles as wrll, and so having 1 of each still means 2 anti tank, but also gives you their secondary advantages, as well

[@jsirhanis]

In my experience redundancy doesn't always have to be the exact same unit, but rather the exact same role. Sometimes it's good to have a wide variety of units that perform the same role in a different way because it can force your opponent into bad decision making. Also sometimes you will know that unit X is very likely to be scarier to the opponent than unit Y, so you can get away with taking less of unit Y since most opponents will focus down unit X first. There's something to be said also about the mental effect it has on your opponent. A list with 3 of everything is very easy to understand as an opponent. A list with 1 of this, that and also this...then 2 of these and then this character etc etc. can sometimes overwhelm your opponent because they just can't mentally keep track of your entire bag of tricks. I've won many games because my list was just so difficult to understand that even after explaining everything my opponent would misplay and hand me the game on a silver platter. Again usually these different units have overlapping roles, but their subtle differences open up more room for combos and synergies.

[@Sdwndr56]

We had a brief conversation about the necessity of redundancy on stream a couple weeks ago, and now Mordian is off making a whole video about the concept and nailed it. I feel seen lol. Joking aside, great points all around. My experience is pretty limited, but I’ve seen a bit of the same: armies which rely on a few key units and fall apart after they go down, like when a player loses a queen in chess and can’t think through the win without it. I know some armies have naturally expensive units, but there might be some value in using more cost-efficient units (or perhaps just complimentary units) if they can add redundancy or support the same overall army goal. The video also got me thinking- one added benefit of redundancy is that it tends to bring focus to your list. It makes you really think about what your list does well, and double down on the play style, ignoring bits and pieces which otherwise could detract from the overall army strategy and distract you as a player from the game plan you’re working towards. Great video- I definitely enjoy these discussions above higher level concepts that can be applied across the game- excellent stuff sir!

[@dustinhaus1165]

There are many triangles within an army, In thought, and deployment

[@ANDELE3025]

The age old consequence of linchpin position instead of distribution center logistics or soft Rock-Paper-Scissors+ on game design. If there is good internal balance in each army, the unique quality of each unit on a tactical level is the opportunity cost of redundancy on a strategic level as you would still have redundancy on the gameplay scale. If the internal balance is shit, quantity becomes quality of its own.

[@nassirahmad4873]

I agree completely. Redundancy gives an army the durability it needs to get the job done. And I, too, have been “Guardifying” my other armies. And it works!

[@Bluecho4]

It's much the same reason Magic: The Gathering players usually don't include just one copy of a lynch pin card in their deck (format permitting, obviously). One copy is going to be removed, one copy will be buried somewhere at the bottom of the deck and "never come into work" as it were. It's the third or even fourth copy that often accomplishes the goal. (Also, many decks rely on redundancy beyond this, like taking sets of other cards that can accomplish the same task; this is essential in singleton formats, like Commander).

[@tinguspingus1523]

Awesome video Mordian! Ive seen this happen in my local gaming group a lot lately. No one brings enough anti tank and while this might be a bit skewed as I play with a lot of vehicles most people only have 2 or even 1 unit that can do anti tank effectively. My personal favorite tactic to use is to bait out their anti tank with my 2 rogal dorns as the Dorns can very reliably survive the first volley without being crippled. Chimeras are also good for this as they are cheap and I don’t really care about losing one. Once the enemy’s anti tank is exposed I can hammer it with my dorns and once it’s dead the dorns can really bully the rest of my opponents army. Dorns stat line are also great at surviving all rounder weapons like plasma that people may have as a backup anti tank.

[@ravenRedwake]

I mostly don’t know what I’m doing with space marines, I had a vison when I started collecting them but is just isn’t working. Like, the idea was msu combat teams working as a singular discrete units. Intecessors, assault intecessors and an Old Dread with assault cannon and power fist is a combat team, so I’d take two of those, some hellblasters in impulsors, drop pods with meltaDevs and flamer Primaris guys times two (5 devestators and five of the flamer guys go into a pod) Infiltrators and a redemptor to be their overwatch and hold the home objective. Lieutenant goes with a intecessor squad, apothecary goes with a hellblaster squad.

[@tobiasschwabe1670]

True, as an eldar player i like to take two falcons loaded with fire dragons to take out the enemy. Or three Wave serpents with Banshees/Scorpions moving overone flank to destroy the enemy. And i trumped one game in which i took 30 Wraithguard plus Wraithlord and nothign else for free roaming eldar at T7.

[@ravenRedwake]

I wish that you could put anything into a drop pod for space marines because it’s the perfect place for gravis units.

[@jamesespinosa690]

Great video. Really sums up my recent feelings. I play HH 1.0 with a couple of friends. And recently, I've started to feel that I'm better off going wide, skipping the toys, and bringing more boys. As an Iron Warrior player, we don't really have any tools that makes us offensively better than any of the other legions. What we are good at doing, is soaking up ranged firepower and never running away.

[@Rexir2]

Anti-tank: Lethal hits & 5+ crits on battleline, missiles launchers/plasma cannons w/ wound RRs from fire support. Anti-horde: Sustained hits 1 & 5+ crits on battleline, missile launchers/plasma cannons have blast profiles. I think I'm covered for the time being 😊

[@timothyharnedy4495]

Isn't this partly also a question of how people collect an army? In my current Ork army I have a small unit of warbikers, a small unit of deffkoptas, stormboyz and lootas and a single Trukk. Next on my list is a unit of Killa Kanz. Redundancy-wise it might make more sent to get a second Trukk, or more deffkoptas. The way most of the Ork detachments are would encourage someone to concentrate on redundancy and a list of all one thing, but I want a little of everything first, before I start collecting multiple of the same unit.

[@brianwynne6835]

I normally take in my guard list Pask in lemon russ, 9 leman russ, basilisk, Mantacore, 20 scions, scion prime, command squad w/ moo,off,ap , tempestor prime, commissar, chimeras.

[@Target008]

I think more in terms of role redundancy as opposed to unit redundancy. As an example 20 necron warriors with a technomancer and translocation shroud is a durable OC unit that can pressure an objectiv,e this fills the same role as a 6 man wraiths unit with a technomancer. 3x LHD, Nightbringer, and canoptek doomstalker all fill the same role of anti-tank so if I have 2x3 LHD and 1x doomstalker I am covered for anti tank. In guard if I have 1 dorn and 2 russes I feel good about my anti tank.

[@insufficientdata0247]

I’m doing something similar with my csm but instead of taking several of the same thing, I’m taking different units that can equally fit the same roles bit with enough difference that my opponent has to have different game plan all together for them. Like using 2 units of legionaries and a unit of bikers as infantry fighters. However one unit of legionaries is in a land raider and goes with the bikers for running up the board while the other is for mid-board support.

[@ARC1701A]

Kroot. I will eventually have 3 hunting packs and a Kinband. The Leman Russ Tank is a "Snack Box". 🐔

[@tajj7]

I'd say two issues cause this, elite armies can't take multiple of the same unit and their go to strong units are very expensive but at the same time without them their list becomes much weaker. So from my own example as Blood Angels player in Sons of Sanguinius I just can't take 3 blobs of 10 death company, even 3 blobs of 10 jump pack units with characters is very expensive, I can't take 3 Land Raider Redeemers, even two you are over 500 points before you even put anything in them. At the same time owning/buying the kits is probably an issue, people don't like buying 2/3 kits of the same unit unless they are like basic units, it's boring to paint 3 gladiator lancers or 30 death company so doing stuff like that becomes a chore and also expensive (especially if those kits don't come with the wargear you need so there is kitbashing and sourcing extra parts as well) and in some cases you can't get the kits they are sold out. For example Baal Predators are very popular with Blood Angels players, but GW has had them available for sale for like 2-3 days in the last 5-6 months and then people invest all this time and money in say 3 expensive flashy units only for GW to nerf them next dataslate and they go sit on the shelf. So I think aside the super competitive, most players, even those going to tournaments will probably collect and field good units, but might not have 2-3 to play or have the points in their list.

[@urosbrkic3370]

I do agree with what you're saying. I think you are forgeting that most people do not have the amount of units you are talking about. You need to be willing to paint up 50 plague marines or the like. This is something that is common in the guard, but I don't think it transfers to other armies. Most players I've met want to have different models that look cool. I find painting my guard infantry somewhat like a comfly blanket that I can return to but we don't really have one of centrepiece models that are strong and that cool to paint (don't consider baneblade in this category because of it's size and uniformity).

[@DieL4ppenWG]

Agree, even tho i'm a new player. Only thing that bugs me is having the same big model three times. I'm gonna play csm and i'm gonna use a plasma forgefiend, a lascannon predator, lascannon havocs and a winged daemon prince. All of those work as anti tank, but are still different models so the hobby side makes more fun imo. But i'm also a newbie and i'm not gonna play in competitions.

[@xvxscarecrow]

I totally get what you are saying but i can only agree in terms of certain aspects of list building. For myself i always thinkl about the anti armour due to the fact if you only have 1 anti armour and it dies then its all around a feelsbadman moment. In 1000 points i will have 1 main anti armour (usually a lancer) and 1 or 2 secondary anti armour (eliminators with las fusals or Bjorn with a las cannon/frost cannon) The problem being that if you take 2 or 3 units of all aspects of list building then you just run out of points too quick. Back field protection/anti deep strike, anti armour, anti infantry, deep strike combat. Im not a great player so its hard for me to think of the bases i MUST cover, I know armour is a must but I dont know what other must haves are needed. Though i admit when i do run redundancy in my list it does seem to work better. I think im going to adjust how i build lists and and keep in mind what you said. Great vids as always

[@davidgantenbein9362]

Redundancy has also a side benefit for new players: you get to use that unit more often and in more situations, gaining specific experience faster. So it may be worth running a unit twice instead of only once, so that you actually learn more about the unit like if you need two or just one of it for your preferred play style. But if you are not doing tournaments, I think you rarely ever need to bother with three times the same unit outside of battleline. There is absolutely also a monetary and hobby side to 40k, no need to buy everything three times just because it could be meta tomorrow.

[@dustinhaus1165]

Math hammer flies out the window real fast. It is not how anything works.

[@Tharosthegreat]

You are quite right. I play 12 armies and i fully agree. Its a BIT down to how you are playing and moving if you play Eldar for example. But yeah... You are right in general.

[@sebastianmarcet9484]

Plan to go second, make the most of it if you go first

[@roboflex3162]

Another benefit of having that redundancy is you give your opponent no obvious point to focus on to start dismantling your list. 6 scout chimeras, 4 russes, command blob, 2 scions and 2 cyclopses just is a tide of different kinds of problems with no clear way to start unfucking them.

[@Jaybirderino]

Example of redundancy in my list: Ursula Creed hands out FoF, Exterminator tank gives an extra AP, Hellhound strips cover. Bonus points that I can stack these buffs when I need them. Two rogal dorns are also redundant with the exterminator, for plenty of tank firepower to go around. Finally with my infantry, the Reinforcements stratagem is its own redundancy!

[@shadowslayer7892]

Point taken, I shall now run 3 breacherfish combos as well as triple hammerheads and triple riptides

[@reaemishi2278]

I think this is just a matter of people new to wargaming joining 40k. This isn't just a 40k meme. In historical wargaming this goes triple.

[@rodneygaul2227]

Reporting for Duty , Sir o7 I agree with your Space elf opinion , but you have a Tau army

[@geoffreywampach2588]

Last game i played, my anti-tank unit rolled five 1s out of six shots... twice. And that was on a 2+ BS. Having a second unit made the difference.

[@cavemansam8400]

Old school Guard player logic: BS3 (4+) is a ‘good’ ballistic skill.. if I take 2.

[@LordoftheSwarm]

One is none, two is one, three is some

[@funghazi]

Three is some, two is one, one is none

[@BloodBuffalo]

I agree take one of every model. Joke aside. For guard it makes a lot of sense. Other armies play style factors in greatly. My SM are pretty diverse. My guard highly redundant. Deathguard are slow so it makes sense that the guard strategy transfers over. Not so much when speed and movement is a goal.

[@drgnsenpai]

Shared with my play group. Great advice for us all. Except those space elves. Yuck.

[@peterlaszlo9830]

Never go home without my two Malcadors

[@Kitbash.Carnage]

Another amazing video ❤🔥

[@NunoSequeira-jb8bf]

Hmmmm, I guess i have to take 3 baneblades next battle XD

[@lucuswilliams4598]

Can Lord Solar Leontus give orders to Allied Units? If I take a Knight Crusader, is he now part of the AM army?

[@pqfire0950]

I'm about to throw 5 tanks into my next list lol.

[@br7693t]

I'm seeing how important redundancy is. As a long-time Custodes player, that's always been a problem for me. Now that I'm playing guard I'm not taking things like Rogal Dorns or Basilisks because I want points available for redundancy

[@RickJagger13]

not all armies have the luxury of redundancy lol however i will say i do not promote bringing 3 of the same unit because it makes list stale.

[@Lomhow]

Got it. So start 3D printing 3 of every unit.

[@ianw1285]

Think one, think one point of failure

[@peterlaszlo9830]

Rule of two

[@NorthernKnightsGaming]

I have been using triple vanq since like 2023, so I feel vindicated in all the talk around it now lmao

[@Smilomaniac]

I can summarize what you're saying in a different way: If you over-rely on hyper specialized armies you will lack redundancies and won't have an answer to what's on the table when your list falls apart, because you have too many linchpins. This applies mostly to beginners, however, whether it's to the game or a faction. Winters' best advice he's ever given is to build up around 3's and simplify your list to do what you want it to do. Bring 3 biker units, bring 3 skimmers, bring 3 heavy weapon teams, bring 3 walkers etc. - Obviously not all at once, but if you want tanks, then bring 3 of them. They're less effective at pulling off cheesy tactics, but they're great at giving you consistency, simplifying your tactics, which gives you simple answers to playing. I will say though that some factions are so ludicrously overpriced that you just can't do this. Elite armies struggle to bring redundancies while horde armies excel at it. The other thing is that with experience you learn how to position and counter-strike, so redundancies become less relevant as you keep playing.

[@biguschungus3989]

Spam, gotcha

[@Smilomaniac]

@@biguschungus3989 Thanks for replying, my comments stay hidden a lot for no discernible reason. Still gotta have your list make sense, have movement to take objectives and answers to different kinds of durability, whether it's wounds, toughness or saves (and knights, always keep knights in mind in tournaments).

[@nightwatchm4n]

It's definitely a Guard thing. From a Necron perspective, we just don't have many tough vehicles with lots of dakka and the few that we do are insanely expensive, so basically our only options are Doomstalkers or Doom Arks, both of which are are not as tough as a lot of people think and have problems. Doomstalkers only perform reliably well in Canoptek Court which makes for a predictable playstyle and Doom Arks are really only a threat if they remained stationary for dev wounds. Our best anti-vehicle units are our Heavy Lokhusts and the Void Dragon. Problem with Heavy Lokhusts is they only get 1-attack each and the Void Dragon is great.... but we only get 1 of him so compared to Guard we're completely outclassed on the anti-vehicle front. Necrons are fantastic at a lot of things and a lot of playstyles but we simply don't have any room for redundancy because we don't have Guard's catalog of vehicles and transports and half our infantry is just comically overcosted so we struggle with anti-vehicle without sacrificing things like OC and versatility.

[@operator9858]

Im concerned about doing enough damage as it is without doing this already man lol

[@VorTheRhino]

I wish I could take entire armies of just tank after tank after tank. Well, I mean, I can already! Just it won't do so well.

[@brianwynne6835]

Same with me vs primarus marines mostly.

[@Orlunu]

He didn't have enough anti-tank, he didn't have enough anti-infantry, and he didn't have enough durability. The lesson of that story wasn't "redundancy", my dude... (Guard player looks at a necron army and wonders why they didn't just bring half a dozen of everything)

[@alpa7973]

How many tournaments did Mordian win?

[@alexmills9321]

We want more FOB’s 🎉🎉🎉

[@rjscorpion8892]

How much anti tank is enough?

[@SteelStorm33]

whats up with that bell shape in the middle of the screen, it obscures the nice miniatures.

[@AgoristDryad]

Pshaw, who even needs tracked vehicles anyway?😅

[@thagoodstuff777]

I spam alot! People think I am crazy lol

[@pistoneteo]

I do my part 🫡

[@giacomoinnocenti1876]

🫡

[@colebaker5250]

First

[@hunterreams9992]

Redundancy doesn't necessarily mean 3x a particular datasheet however. Creed, LR Exterminator, Hellhound, and scout sentinel Squadron can accomplish similar things, and may be better than, say, 3x exterminators.

[@David-mx1os]

Yes MG your approach is a good one, but I don't think it's essential and other approaches can also work. I personally set aside an amount of points for each type of target I expect to encounter, plus points for board control and objectives. I won't necessarily look at 3 ofs, but I'll look at how many points can handle light infantry, marines, heavy infantry, smaller vehicles, tanks, knights etc and if I think I'm deficient in one area I'll add more to compensate. A lot of the time a really great unit can only be a one of due to list restrictions or cost e.g. hellblasters plus fire discipline lieutenant (over 300 points), or infernus marines plus Calgar and apothecary (nearly 400 points)