The bigger story behind this photograph

What history - and geography - brought these women together to make one of the greatest photographs of all time?
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[@hoilst265]

Dorothea Lange is a legend. And this is why. It's not just about being able to point a camera - it's about seeing, and empathy. Photojournalism is the only form of hard journalism we're you're not just allowed, but *should* be emotionally involved.

[@PhilEdwardsInc]

i dunno if you've read that biography, but it really is one of the first bios i've read that also gave me an impression of just how HARD somebody worked. in addition to being a genius (with tools that made it even harder) she was quite driven!

[@yanikkunitsin1466]

Call it all you want, its poverty porn

[@EricDMMiller]

Empathy is garbage.

[@key-chain]

@@EricDMMillerwho hurt you

[@ailo4x4]

That was a beautiful blend of history, geography, art, and the human experience. Thank you for sharing it with us.

[@HabeebKolawole]

Your channel is gradually becoming my favorite on the platform.

[@azraelreaper27]

Tahlequah native here, it’s pronounced Tah-luh-quah, though it’s a mistake I hear a lot lol. Great video!

[@PhilEdwardsInc]

Ugh I even looked up this video and then totally biffed on it. Sorry! kzbin.info/www/bejne/jmaadqxnotl6qtk

[@azraelreaper27]

@@PhilEdwardsInc you’re good! trust me, if I didn’t live here, I probably would mess it up too.

[@patkison]

@@azraelreaper27 Grew up in Wagoner. When I heard Phil pronounce it, I just cringed. I was born just south of Nipomo on Vandenberg Air Force Base to Okie parents. Had lots of relatives in that migration.

[@Zeyev]

I wondered about that. Thanks for noting the right pronunciation.

[@azraelreaper27]

@@patkison i’ve been to wagoner a hundred times lol, actually bought my car there

[@byronsbrain]

I've always loved this photograph, I didn't realise there was so much history behind it. Thank you!

[@darrenlu1645]

awesome video. Thanks for giving more context to this iconic photo. I'm saving this video to show my students when we get to the Great Depression Unit

[@K3NnY_G]

Thanks a bunch for something to even distract me for 15 min of this crappy day. I know you've got a lot more time and effort in the videos you share with us; but the power to overcome even terrible thoughts and times with just interesting, distracting information is quite a feat.

[@Justphred]

I’m from Watsonville, family still lives there. I had no idea that photo had ties to my home town. That’s incredible. This video was awesome!

[@alyssao.9577]

I never realized that the photo made famous for its depiction of the Great depression, was taken just a few miles north of where I grew up and currently live. My grandfather was from Kansas and ended up here after joining the Air Force in 1956. My grandmother was from Oklahoma. Her and her family moved out here to pick food crops. She told me stories about how she used to pick cotton and grapes as a young girl. I'm going to read more of her writings. Thank you.

[@PhilEdwardsInc]

wow that is definitely in line - thanks for sharing.

[@scott_mc]

Thank you, Phill. To my knowledge, the family was rather upset with the Image's widespread use because ultimately, they didn't want to be portrayed as some bums on the side of the road. Although this is initially true, through a bit more research, I learned they turned their position following an influx of about 2,000 letters of admiration and empathy, as well as $35,000(1983) in donations that helped fund great-great-grandma Florance's medical care. You've provided some much-needed humanizing context which I really needed; we're all just trying to live ☮

[@CaptOrbit]

There's a very subtle, very quiet and very American take away to all of this too. That most American of things is that despite Florence Thompson's poverty and the era in which the photo was taken, she still had a car.

[@PhilEdwardsInc]

ah this is a good point!

[@MrJimheeren]

With no wheel because she had to sell those. So a useless piece of junk basically

[@PhilEdwardsInc]

@@MrJimheeren she didn't sell the wheels - somebody just made that up, she said

[@MrJimheeren]

@@PhilEdwardsInc ah seriously. Oops. My bad

[@PhilEdwardsInc]

@@MrJimheeren not at all! very reasonable mistake!

[@glennac]

Phil, I’ve seen several videos about this photo. But yours is the most comprehensive about the background of these two women. Thank you so much for the research and effort put into it. I love the unknown history of these things we all have seen but don’t appreciate. ❣️

[@daverizz]

Quite moving. And I enjoyed the new AE treatments. The vertical parallax landscape photos def caught my eye, and the shallow dof macro map stuff too. 🔥👍

[@PhilEdwardsInc]

appreciate it! trying to find a balance where the accuracy isn't messed with but there's still some fancy touches

[@daverizz]

@@PhilEdwardsInc Oh, it seems like you've got a good balance there. And the dof stuff helps focus the viewer's attention to the important elements. 💯🤘

[@PawFromTheBroons]

Came here to comment on that parallax farm shot.

[@waynekrefting9648]

This has to be one of your best, if not the best, episodes in terms of lifting up the humanity of your topic.

[@PhilEdwardsInc]

appreciate it!

[@annikahansoncarlson7988]

I love the different subjects you choose for your videos! I always learn something new :)

[@CrispyGFX]

Absolutely brilliant presentation. Very well written!

[@MrShaclakclak]

Other than reading "of mice and men." I learned none of this in school. This is incredible and moving. Thank you

[@SharpShruter]

I was not expecting this video to hit so hard, but here we are. Great job as always, Phil!

[@NoahKalina]

This was great, Phil. Thank you.

[@TheNaysayerTNT]

As a Nipomo native I feel like you covered this well. Great work!

[@brianbarker2551]

I'd always assumed it was taken in the summer months, when there was no crops to harvest. Taken in a rainy February makes it even more poignant.

[@corgi_dad]

Very interesting video, that make me think of some very loose connections to the story. In the early 1970s, my father was working on his PhD in agricultural economics from the University of California Berkeley. We lived there a few years, but then later moved to Davis. Because my father was a student, and my mother was only working as a secretary, we didn't have much money. They sent me to a day camp at a park in Davis that was setup for migrant worker's kids, that I think was free for them, but was inexpensive for me. At the camp, the migrant children would be taught English, while us local kids were taught some Spanish. Also, during the 1930s, my family was in Nebraska, which wasn't hit as hard as Oklahoma. My great grandfather owned a grocery store in a small town in southwest Nebraska. He lost the store during the depression. Years later, my aunt found a box of receipts which were IOUs from then for groceries that my great grandfather gave to people who never paid him back. He didn't want people to go hungry.

[@PhilEdwardsInc]

thanks for sharing that - and thanks to your great grandpa for the ious

[@AC-ih7jc]

This reminds me of an apocryphal story of Life magazine interviewing potential photographers, asking them the question: You enter a room with your camera in hand. There's a dead man in one corner and a distraught woman in the opposite corner. You have one exposure left, and it is impossible to get both in the frame. Which do you take a picture of? In reality, both are legitimate photographic subjects, so there is no wrong answer... ...that is, unless you had your heart set on working for Life magazine.

[@OmegaSparky]

Thank you for doing a story on that iconic photo. I will definitely go read your story on Thompson because I never knew her story. At least in the 90s you could get a high quality b&w print of that iconic photo (and other iconic photos from that period) from the federal government because Lange's work at that time was being paid for by the WPA.

[@Andrewdeank]

6:37 this might be my favorite photo now

[@possiblyadog]

TIL that Dorothea Lange's photo studio was on the same block I live on in San Francisco, and I nearly fell out of my chair

[@DeanDocs]

Such a good story Phil!! 🙌 (great lighting btw!)

[@maggiebreadsticks5023]

Incredible video. I grew up in one of those big agriculture towns in California and was lucky enough to be pretty thoroughly educated on Dorothea Lange and migrant workers. I always love learning more.

[@DanielsimsSteiner]

Dang. Great video. I love photography, geography and history. So this covers a looooot of bases for me.

[@ajduker]

Great story telling as usual. Good work Phil!

[@hunt0583]

Thank you for sharing this wonderful story of two amazing women living through the Great Depression.

[@tomguilmette9205]

Excellent storytelling! Enjoyed this one.

[@guyvanarsdall7686]

Lange's photo and it's subjects are haunting even today, giving it a timeless quality. The pain, concern, and uncertainty etched on FloranceThompson's face always stirs emphatic emotions.

[@PhilEdwardsInc]

i agree!

[@SuperNicktendo]

Always enjoy these stories but saddened that this story could be told today. Also a suggestion: set your lens to f4 or higher to keep your name placard in focus. If you set the desk slightly further from the back, you should still maintain a decent seperation.

[@elektrofunkzz]

Im born and raised in Santa Maria CA, and as many times as ive seen that famous picture over the years, never once knew that it was shot in Nipomo, the small town 5 minutes away from my parent's place.

[@perrybarton]

Great work, Phil. 👍

[@Atis602]

Just by amazing coincidence this video was published only a day after I had searched a painting I had come across by Fabian Perez titled "Untitled". There are multiple versions of this painting including "Untitled ii", each of them being more identical than the next to Dorothea Lange's photo "White Angel Breadline". I was startled by the level of duplication of the photo by the paintings. Maybe there's material here for a future video. Thanks for another great video Phil.

[@xliquidflames]

This video is so well written. Like everyone, I know the photo but I didn't know the story. Thanks for telling it so well.

[@developingtank]

Lately, I've been covering a bunch of FSA photographers on my channel. This is a cool video for additional information to the knowledge I've gained over the last few weeks.

[@PhilEdwardsInc]

i learned a lot from the walker evans vid!

[@developingtank]

@@PhilEdwardsInc happy to hear the transfer of knowledge is going both ways!

[@Huebz]

Love this and her ability to see "beyond" the lens of her camera in the way she does. Also, praise be for subtitles bc I definitely misheard something to be the name of a work, not a person. "Dancer Is A Door: Duncan" is, in fact, not one of Genthe's works. Who knew?

[@PhilEdwardsInc]

hahah dancer is a door would be a good ai image though

[@OranDsouza]

We need a video on the modern version of migrant mother.

[@kieran256]

I loved the depth of this one, keep it up!

[@markswishereatsstuff2500]

I've always commented that Keri Russel with her "glamour" has that hardened face.

[@budreau]

Great video, Phil. This was a nice combination of deep dive in the history with some good Analysis by you. Thanks!

[@richardg8651]

Fabulous diversity and range of videos. A lovely combination of smarts, empathy and humor. I'm happy to follow your interests. Well done.

[@PhilEdwardsInc]

that's very nice, thank you

[@SocPro]

Phil, I once would undermine you. But I see now. You are extraordinary. A creative genius on par with the greatest journalists on KZbin.

[@PhilEdwardsInc]

haha flattery will get you everywhere!

[@batya7]

I could have watched so much more, Phil.

[@ghosted0352]

Thanks Phil

[@HeyHey_HC]

Great dive as always and funny enough I was just recently reading about Lange’s photos of Japanese American internment during WW2 (many of which got classified because the government wasn’t too keen that her photos may invoke sympathy for Japanese Americans)

[@PhilEdwardsInc]

Great video from my former coworker: kzbin.info/www/bejne/rZKyhoGtj6Znl7M

[@The_Sofa_King]

It’s amazing the message and power of the photograph can accomplish

[@KristenRowenPliske]

My grandfather& his little sister grew up on a farm in Oklahoma during the Great Depression. My granddad may have left for college but my great-aunt remembers being caught in a dust storm either her father. They were driving back home when the dust came. She said it was very loud & she was terribly frightened but her daddy helped calm her down & they waited out the storm. I never thought to ask my granddad what he remembered of that time. My family still has that farm, too.

[@robynmorris6388]

Thanks for this. Your videos are always so interesting; filled with stuff I didn't know I needed to know. Fascinating stuff!😁

[@EvenFilms]

This is on par with any American Experience documentary. Fantastic job, Phil!

[@Tulpen23]

I once saw an exhibition of Dorothea Lange that included this picture. Even though I’d seen it so many times, seeing the real photograph in person, and within the context of her other works, was surprisingly powerful.

[@Emeraldblades]

This is probably the best video you have done.

[@dbroward]

Thoughtfully considered and masterfully made. Thank you.

[@CharlesBukowski0]

Keep up the good work!

[@ldawg7117]

How notifications for new videos from this channel got turned off is as much of a mystery to me as how your channel doesn't have at LEAST a million subscribers. Can't really complain about notifications turning off, though, because now I have multiple videos I can binge. missed the last 6 or so.

[@PhilEdwardsInc]

haha thank ya

[@joepearson3742]

You changed the thumbnail and title enough times, I just couldn't resist watching the video.

[@PhilEdwardsInc]

hahah it's a journey

[@betolov]

Top notch video.

[@buckets1473]

Mom wake up Phil Edwards just posted

[@christian1775]

Hey I remember seeing this photo in my social studies class!

[@mtchhsr]

The mispronunciation of Tahlequah hurt my soul :(

[@mtchhsr]

A great video nonetheless! I’m just sensitive to portrays of Oklahoma and CN having grown up there

[@PhilEdwardsInc]

no i really have no idea what was wrong with me. i looked up this video of these realtors saying it, had it linked in my script, and then totally messed up. sorry!

[@marknava321]

I think it looks better with the thumb. It adds a dimension to the photo that feels like the viewer is literally peering into her life.

[@PhilEdwardsInc]

i agree!

[@tick.tock.its.Quinn.o-clock]

Oh my god my college photography class just used that photo as a lesson as to how to ethically take photos (more as a counter example but this is very funny that it was mentioned in my class)

[@jonreznick5531]

This reminds me of the unusual story behind the Afghan Girl photo.

[@PhilEdwardsInc]

yes def. a connection there!

[@buzzsmith8146]

This is excellent. Thanks.

[@Zeyev]

My heavens. A brilliant photo of a beautiful yet impoverished woman is so much more than that. Yes, today both would have reaped some degree of payment. While we can't change history, we still have agricultural workers who live and work in horrid conditions nationwide, don't we? How many photographs and/or videos will it take us and our elected officials to see what we can do to make their lives better? BTW, do we know how Florence Thompson's children fared? Did they move out of poverty into the mainstream of the middle class? I hope so.

[@PhilEdwardsInc]

They did end up buying her a house, though she said she preferred living in a trailer.

[@WalterBurton]

You know, I'm not even 2 minutes in, and I'm thinking about the United States in the context of "great power politics," etc., and different international relations theories and seeing so many of them lasered into dust by the documented history of these 50 United States.

[@cardboard2night]

When I actually read about Migrant Mother in Wikipedia I was surprised to learn that both of her parents claimed to be Cherokee, tho I'm not sure if they actually were natives?

[@PhilEdwardsInc]

that is the claim, at least. tough to prove

[@notyrpapa]

Commenting for the algorithm.

[@WalterBurton]

Very cool video! Yes, I don't think you can really understand any serious contemporary photographers (e.g. Virginia's Sally Mann) until you first understand Dorothea Lange. But that's a whole rant.

[@PhilEdwardsInc]

will take any tips on who to check out today- i am very photo ignorant except for a few yt channels (imitative photography is wonderful, if you haven't seen(

[@nocturnus009]

I read The Grapes of Wrath [please read or reread Chapter 14 before mailing in or going out to your polling location in November] and then Red Famine Stalin’s War Against Ukraine in August and we need to learn the lessons of 1932-1933 as well as 1934-35. If only Okies and Kulaks had a moment to practice awareness to find common cause.

[@ryanortega1511]

What a great video.

[@GDMiller419]

"Taa-luh-kwah", emphasis on the 1st syllable.

[@PhilEdwardsInc]

i'm sorry! i looked it up and everything and totally whiffed. apologies.

[@thefarmercox6862]

I guess the lack of Vox vids has definitely left a gap in the market 😅

[@phyarth8082]

In Chinatown Gitties use slur oakie and beats orange grower. Until Mulholland drive California was not domesticated to 40 million people population people been nomads mainly Oklahoma. And today "waters wars" for Colorado river flow rate.

[@jorgechavez942]

hey, from oklahoma, it’s pronounced like “ta-luh-kwaa”

[@PhilEdwardsInc]

Thank you - sorry I totally screwed this up.

[@TotallyAHumanNotADog]

It would be really cool if you did a video on the forced repatriation of Mexican laborers. Many were American citizens who were of Mexican descent who were forcibly deported regardless of holding American citizenship.

[@PhilEdwardsInc]

Yeah, it's definitely not well known (including by me).

[@JK-he5xh]

How did you do the 3D effect on the photo at 1:21??

[@PhilEdwardsInc]

Basically you can create a "displacement map" that estimates the depths in a picture, and then use it to shift around based on the perceived depths. I use a neural filter to make it - though that is AI, to me this method is a bit more historically accurate than dropping it into an AI video generator, since it's only using the real data in the photograph. Dunno if that makes sense, I can go more step by step if it helps.

[@ryanortega1511]

How do you get a displacement map?

[@PhilEdwardsInc]

@@ryanortega1511 you can do it manually by creating a black and white shaded map of the assumed depths, or these days a lot of ai will make depth maps - adobe has a neural filter to do it

[@likebot.]

"One faced forward (6:42), the rest turned away." I can imagine that he grabbed his tin cup, pulled his dirty hat low across is face and gave thanks to God for the cup of soup he scored. I wonder if John Hartford was inspired by this picture to write "Gentle on my Mind".

[@PhilEdwardsInc]

Apparently this! "Hartford wrote the song after watching Doctor Zhivago in 1966, as he was inspired by the film and his own personal experiences."

[@itsking2u]

The Grapes of Wrath.

[@lohphat]

Has anyone traced her family to see how her kids and subsequent generations fared?

[@PhilEdwardsInc]

there's not a lot - this article has a bit more depth, but more about thompson mainly. web.archive.org/web/20020602103656/www.newtimes-slo.com/archives/cov_stories_2002/cov_01172002.html

[@ikeyshuster9801]

Love

[@navinvent]

It is so sad Dorothea Lange never saw a penny from the image. She should have minted an NFT. Kidding. Just sad to see undervalue of journalism and artistry being a standard throughout time and getting worse.

[@PhilEdwardsInc]

hahaha migrant mother nft is such a funny idea

[@257796]

She hated that picture. Just so we're all on the same page with that

[@PhilEdwardsInc]

i think that's fair but she was quoted expressing slightly more complicated emotions about it. but i think the evidence for your side is pretty decent for sure

[@yellowflowerorangeflower5706]

cool

[@tylerpowell2929]

It’s pronounced Tal-E-quah

[@PhilEdwardsInc]

ugh i feel so bad i even looked up these realtors saying it and just screwed up. sorry!

[@solsoman102]

first for real this time!

[@whyamiwastingmytimeonthis]

ok here's a cookie 🍪

[@PhilEdwardsInc]

🏆🏆🏆🏆

[@PhilEdwardsInc]

psh first gets a full on 🏆 you can resell for like a million cookies

[@solsoman102]

@@PhilEdwardsInc im eating a pop tart right now so thats a huge upgrade

[@nells7687]

Phil there are some serious issues here. Lange had camera equipment, a much easier, prestigious job, and was not tied to agricultural patterns. Her life was not comparable to Thompson's. She was absolutely wealthy during the depression comparatively. Having polio and a rough childhood doesnt say shit about her adulthood, which again, was in an artistic job under a literal living legend. You should also have spent more time on the fact that Thompson got nothing ever for the photo. You also mentioned nothing of the racism that is Lange, a white woman, getting fame and fortune at the expense of a native american woman. What a bad comparison.

[@PhilEdwardsInc]

i don't believe suffering is a competition

[@PhilEdwardsInc]

in all seriousness, i really recommend the book i linked for a sense of the history.

[@nells7687]

@@PhilEdwardsInc suffering isn't a competition, but material conditions are certainly comparable. You are a historian. You, of all people, should know that. I have read the book and know the history. Why you chose a book from 2009 as your main basis when several more recent books are available seems like weird methodology for an experienced historian. But on top of that, Thompson never saw any money or benefit from a photo that gave Lange fame and prestige. You made a video with a title about the Migrant Mother and focused your research and the video on Lange, who never cared about Thompson (she didn't even ask her name or anything about her). It isn't a competition, and their suffering isn't in question. This is about the material conditions each faced. You implied that their lives were comparable, but the material conditions fly right in the face of that, even if you don't consider what happened after the photo gained notoriety.

[@PhilEdwardsInc]

@@nells7687 well, i totally feel like your opinion is fair and valid (and worth a video or essay of its own!). i guess all i'd say is: 1) i don't think any youtuber is an historian. i have a lot of problems with college, but not historians. i think they do a ton of legit valuable work that no youtuber has the time or access to do. youtubers are edutainers, that's all i claim to be! 2) my point was mainly this: in my career in media, i've met a ton of incredibly rich people. lange was not that. i did say in the video that she wasn't as bad off as thompson, but i think it's important to note that she wasn't the kind of documentarian you seem today (which skew heavily toward the extremely wealthy). i can totally see how that subtlety wouldn't have read though!

[@greg4629]

this is just a journalist waxing lyrical about the merits of journalism and glazing over the damage it does

[@PhilEdwardsInc]

hmm i don't know about that on any front!

[@TonyDepalma-ev6qq]

Must be terrible to be so cynical and jaded. Hope you find peace, Greg.