The biggest danger for new gamedevs

[@Jeroxia]

Instructions unclear, used this tutorial to crawl deeper into tutorial hell. I think I am pretty much ready to write Dante's inferno now.

[@mileslaer4264]

😂😂😂😂😂

[@PoolDaddyRS]

I've been working on a game inspired by Dante's Inferno for a few weeks lol

[@ultimaxkom8728]

Instructions unclear; I'm now married to Luciferia and is currently building a deeper layer of hell.

[@dafff08]

making a game called tutorial land is a good start. theres no overarching theme/goal, except just learning the basics and applying them. basic stuff like creating a ui, applying an animation, implementing a trigger etc etc, basically everything you plan on using on your project. this can be also used as a reference sheet if you forgot how you did it. you just boot up the project and see "oh in need this and that", instead of booting up another tutorial.

[@Kvantovy]

An interesting idea... 🤔

[@scotmcpherson]

Step 1) watch tutorial without coding Step 2) watch tutorial and follow along Step 3) watch tutorial but pause tutorial after the problem is described but before you are given the solution Step 4) do step 3 again but go as far as you can without any hints. Step 5) after you can duplicate the tutorial, try to apply the knowledge to a problem you define on your own

[@paluxyl.8682]

I think some good advices are : - if you watch tutorials at youtube, give every video a like to mark it as "viewed" to not watch the same videos twice - create a youtube playlist and call it "game development", to save all useful videos about 3d models, 3d modeling, game development and game marketing - make a textdocument or RTF-document (I prefer it because it's possible zu save links) and write all down what you learned or will be useful in the future - concentrate on just 1 or 2 game engines that you think suits you most (my first is Unreal, second but almost ignored option is Unity) - look always at the release date of a video, some tutorials could be dated

[@RealCoachMustafa]

I used to be in tutorial hell. I kept seeing videos show up in my feed on how to make certain mechanics and I kept adding them to a giant playlist. Then I realized it wasn't getting me anywhere. Everyone had different styles and many of them weren't really explaining well enough, it was just follow along as they code and not giving me fundamental information on why they are adding certain lines of code. I think it's fine that Brackeys is back, but I feel like the way people lost their minds when he returned was as if they were all waiting 3 years for more tutorials and haven't improved without him.

[@mandisaw]

Based. If folks jumped to Godot back in Sept, then that's like 8mos. Brackeys strictly did beginner tuts, so by rights most folks from then should already have surpassed whatever he's planning to cover.

[@Kolbiathan]

Damn Marnix going for the jugular with Thomas Brush 😂

[@mandisaw]

And calling-out BiteMe!Thomas 😅 A few vids on game patterns & architecture would be cool, but probably won't get the same kind of views as the easy/accessible stuff. 🤷

[@MarcWithaC-BlenderAndGameDev]

I agree with so much of this. I played around with Gamedev for years. But when I got serious, I took a structured course (on Udemy) that had you make 6 games. Each game taught new skills until you've learned all the basics. It got the 'make a few crappy games' out of the way as well. Don't just follow the course. Put your own touches on each game. And when I got to the last 2 games, I thought of all the things I wanted in my commercial game and I added them to the tutorial games. Destructible game objects, moving objects from blender to unity, particle systems, post processing, etc. That gave me the ability to fail without the fear of failure because I didn't care if I screwed up my 'crappy game', and it was fun. Then go to KZbin or a smaller tutorial when you want to learn a specific skill. I'm not too sure about learning too much code basics up front unless you enjoy it. Try to apply proper coding practices more and more as you go. I've started Gamedev with 26 years of programming experience and I'm a bit of a 'code snob', but even I would warn someone about going too deep into the technical aspects at the start because it could really put you off of game dev.

[@paegr]

My preferred solution to Tutorial Hell is to do game jams. It forces you to take what you've learned and freestyle with it, instead of just following the youtube video

[@ultimaxkom8728]

Or fight Hellfire with Hellfire. Replace Tutorial Hell with API-Documentation Hell. No tutorial, just read the manual and try it manually.

[@Kolbiathan]

I was in Tutorial Hell for a couple years and kept stopping and starting gamedev. I finally got out last year, now I can code a lot of stuff often without even opening the docs (I do still use the docs regularly)! It was a struggle though man, probably the hardest learning experience of my life, but damn was it ever rewarding. The course that really helped me was "Automate the boring stuff with Python" which solidified a lot of my programming knowledge. I also did some of the Harvard CS50 course which had some great lectures on low level programming concepts.

[@mandisaw]

MIT OpenCourseWare has a ton of great intro & intermediate courses for free. Many are the same as what they teach on campus, while others just require supplementing with a textbook. [We are the Engineers!! 💪]

[@wdavis81x]

Yup. I did a ton of tutorials to learn Unreal and ended up branching out to multiple styles and actually had to learn to read the different styles so I could combine them into a new style. The part of 'Tutorial Hell' ended up being when it created a ton of hard references and bad practices mixed in since nobody was talking about that for a while. But I persevered and now i'm in 'Pitching My Indie Game For Funding Hell'. Almost done with my entire game loop and mechanics.

[@AttractiveClock]

Here is one rule I have that has helped me quite a bit: I don't follow along with tutorials anymore. I watch them and take notes but I won't actually do what they do. It sorta depends on format of videos but I will choose different times to stop the tutorial and then go out and try the concept in my own way, solely based on the notes I took. Its akin to putting a new definition "into your own words". I also finds this actually helps me get through videos faster as I can speed them up since I am not trying to follow along. Along with getting through tutorials quicker I also find that I am much more confident in going out and implementing the concepts in my own projects. Another thing I do is use tutorials as a pivot if I start to get bored or if I get stuck on a problem. A great way to alleviate boredom is to do something else, and a tutorial can be a very productive way to do that. Also if I am stuck with a problem it is sometimes best to just leave it for awhile. Again going to a tutorial can be a productive way to take a break from a problem. Likewise if I start getting bored with a tutorial I use that as a reason to switch back to my project.

[@gamedevjourney4231]

One thing that helped me maybe not to escape tutorial hell but not to fall into it was to find a game idea which is easy but with a twist. For the basic idea I will find a tutorial because someone had the idea before and made a tutorial about it. So I follow that and when the basics are implemented I directly work on my twist to that game. As an example I made a tetris like game. I looked for a tutorial how to make a basic Tetris game and after the main mechanics worked I directly started implementing my twist to the game. Then I couldn't watch tutorials anymore because how my game should work was already in my mind. I "only" had to implement it and google some stuff I didn't know. I thought I would be finished in 6 months. Took me 1,5 years before I finally released the game. And at that point I still didn't want to release it because the game felt unfinished. But some point you just have to release the game.

[@SmartLearningAI]

Cool man! Now let's make a 'Tutorial Heller Crawler!" game lol!

[@sealsharp]

Learning needs a goal. Watching 156 tutorials on this and that without applying the knowledge does not work. Learned knowledge needs to be used and transformed to be understood. 1) do things 2) Get Stuck 3) Learn stuff 4) Solve it 5) back to 1)

[@Kvantovy]

6:40 YES! Exactly! I'd really like a video on styles of structuring the programming of a game. Like, how to structure managers... Where it's best to put this and that... Not just "how to do X and Y" but where to put codes dealing with X and Y in the overarching architecture of the game/app, and why in this way and not differently...

[@EZduzziteh]

Damn I've been revamping the tutorial for my first steam game for like a week now and I was hoping for a solution to that problem lol! Still helpful video! thanks for making it guys.

[@spartanD911]

I won't say that i have managed to escape toturial hell cause i didnt publish a get yet (very soon tho). But what helped me going through it is doing 3 month project. I give my self objectives to attain like 10 minutes gameplay, technical contraints and a theme to stick to and try my best to have a game playable fully and fun at the end of the project.

[@DanielNewm]

I realized after following only tutorials that I didn't understand how to code in c sharp well enough to do my own coding. So I bought a c sharp coding book and I'm going through it now. When I finish, I should have a much better foundation

[@siderisanon7860]

Why would anyone spend hundreds for one course on Udemy when you can just wait until the next sale where it's only $15 or $20? The organized courses there and other places ARE a very useful tool when you are first starting out because they are a set of organized lessons and not just random tutorials. You get a basic set of knowledge you can build on or use to move to an intermediate course if needed.

[@flamart9703]

There are at least 2 hells, one is tutorial hell and the other is gamedev hell. I think they have a strong unavoidable connection. Even if newbies avoid the mistake of only learning from tutorials and instead learn the fundamentals hell, gamedev covers a lot of fields and there will always be a need to check tutorials.

[@Pariatech]

Just like make game. Learn just enough to start banging out a game.

[@Ryanowning]

My tutorial for escaping tutorial hell: nitpick the bad practices of tutorials (gives you the confidence to strike out on your own). I'm not going to highlight the bad practice in my tutorial, it's your homework to figure out what it is (hint, has something to do with game dev, and it's honestly more important). That said, it's hilarious hearing the "mixing styles" segment for me specifically because I've changed my own style around ten times now. I'm going through the "everything should just be done as a component and slapped onto whatever you need to use it" phase at the moment. Haven't found any pitfalls with it yet, but I'm sure I will. Best way I've found a way through the "just make more" is trashing only the code I'm made for the current system I'm making. I recently tried to import a fully complete building system and have nothing but bad things to say about their code, so I decided to make my own. Initially I was going to use theirs as a reference, but that proved to be significantly more difficult than just making my own from scratch without even looking at theirs. Already I've had to ditch components I had fully written because it was a poorly optimized mess. Even though I feel tempted to ditch my current Open World Zelda-Clone and make the much easier horror game I have a game dev doc of... I can't bring myself to. I've already put so much into my current project that it would feel like a waste; a full half year of writing, scrapping, and rewriting the code down the drain. It's true that the new project would have all the bells and whistles of someone who actually has a clear vision of what needs to be done and how (it's gotten to the point where I'm scribbling down the best practices to use in the horror game), but the weight behind my current project is what's propelling me further now. Even if it really doesn't have a lot to show for how much work I put it 😅 I won't need to learn how to adapt to other people's styles because I'm 10 different styles in one. Self-teaching... Actually highly recommend way above watching any tutorial whatsoever. Seriously. Just do it; don't worry about failure, to game dev is to fail- there is no success until you wake up one day and find you somehow made a game. Honestly, that's how I feel about everything I've made, struggle through hell to make it work, plug one half-brain scheme in and suddenly it just clicks and I don't know why. I still haven't gotten use to it, but that's just how this magic system we call "programming" works.

[@moejahi3d3]

You should only watch tutorials for what you need to make the most out of it. Come up with what you want to make then just start and look at a tutorial for the mechanic you are working on and apply it while watching. Then move on to your next part etc etc

[@Lacotemale]

I made a simple tutorial for my game that you can just read but I think people expect an interactive tutorial these days. The time/effort cost is huge. Hard to know it's worth it.

[@collinmbulo1464]

To be honest... I understood that I don't have to know fully how to code or 3D model I reached a stage where I can get a script and edit it or get a model and re-texture or resculpture it "Work Hard and Work Smart"

[@_P_a_o_l_o_]

Yeeeees we want the video by Thomas!

[@jarusa77]

I find that I learn basics better from books and use video tutorials as supplimental lessons.

[@AdjointGaming]

Is there any Brackley like YT channel for UE5 ?

[@Ferenc-Racz]

Shiny Object Syndrome : How do you know it is or it is not? For example Songs of Everjade? (No offense.)

[@mario_actually]

LOL, I thought this was about the hell of trying to make a good tutorial for your game. 😂 Good points though.

[@bitemegames]

Honestly, that may be an even worse kind of hell... -M

[@AtlasAustralia]

So the rule of "just make more (duh)" is actually the opposite? The conclusion seemed to be to make 3 games instead of 50.

[@mandisaw]

Feel like tutorial hell is a product of the shift to videos vs books. Books come with tech-editing and a single author, and usually are well-structured to take you "from zero to hero". Videos, esp on YT, have to be short & fun, with catchy topics, and gloss over the "boring, but essential" stuff. Online async courses fall somewhere in-between - some are good, but many are crap, and all tend to be way more expensive than just grabbing an O'Reilly, Wiley, or Packt book (used or rent, even better!). The quality of tech books has declined a lot, but I'd still say most of them offer better value, consistency, and throughput for learning than just sipping info from KZbin in 5min increments for 2yrs.

[@MarcWithaC-BlenderAndGameDev]

I always suggest going in between the two. Take a structured online course that teaches all the basics. The best courses have you make multiple games and have some support structure. Pause often! (Udemy/Gamedev TV, etc.) Then move on to KZbin or books. Of course if you learn better from books ignore this and just buy books.

[@mandisaw]

@@MarcWithaC-BlenderAndGameDev I'm a bit biased - I think if you're gonna do a $$$ paid course, might as well go for a live/synchronous one, with a teacher, homework, exams, the whole 9yds. Doesn't have to be an entire degree - could be what used to be called "continuing education", basically non-degree evening/weekend classes for working adults at a public community college or gov't entity (library, job-training, etc). That opens up group projects, long-form learning, and exposure to a lot of stuff that just cannot be fully grasped on your own / in a vacuum. Even as someone who learns well from books, *and* has had an entire 25yr career in software dev, I still "leveled up" a lot when I took formal classes.

[@MarcWithaC-BlenderAndGameDev]

@@mandisaw I think that's great if you have the time and money, and you're in the right location. I would probably have to drive an hour to find a class like that, and I definitely don't have the time. The classes I took were about 20 bucks each, and I'm really good at learning on my own. I think the important thing is finding the thing that works best for you. The BiteMe videos are great at giving you ideas and motivation. I watch this type of video when I'm eating lunch so I don't lose any dev time. And I respond in the comments to practice my social/social media skills, which is just as important as a solo dev.

[@mandisaw]

@@MarcWithaC-BlenderAndGameDev One good thing that came out of the pandemic, was a proliferation of online-synchronous college courses. Community colleges especially leaned into it as a way to expand their "catchment area" and to better meet people where/when they are. Lots of places offer free classes if you're unemployed or low-income as well. $20/session sounds high to me (CC here is US $200/credit so about $600 for a 15wk full-semester course). But I suppose your options & price-range are somewhat determined by what country (or State, in the US) you're in. As for time, no one has time for anything! LOL Truly, it's all about an investment in the self - I feel like the bang-for-buck is just a lot higher when the curriculum is vetted & the environment is pre-configured for learning. Lot of folks do the online courses/tutorials, but it's so loose that they self-distract, or get lost without a teacher to correct their mistakes / misapprehensions.

[@MarcWithaC-BlenderAndGameDev]

@@mandisaw I think I was a bit unclear. The course I took was $20 (or 30?) total for 30 hours of Video, 204 lectures split into 8 sections, 5 of which are separate games. The course was $200 when it was original released. The course was very structured and you learn new skills in each section. They had a website to share your games and get feedback, and paid 'interns' to answer questions if you get stuck, and very active forums which I used extensively. It took me about 6 months to finish the GameDev course and about 4 months to finish their blender course. I'm a good leaner, but VERY SLOW. And I really leaned into the lessons. The course I took was 'Complete C# Unity Game Developer 3D'. Thomas Brush and Jason Weiman both have courses that look good and they are both experienced game developers. If someone is thinking of going to college or taking 'in person' courses for the first time I highly recommend both. College was great. But I'm old(er), and online courses are a better fit for me right now. Here's an example of some of the games I made in the course: sharemygame.com/@GameDev2k

[@DreLluminati]

we need thomas!!

[@Surkk2960]

Been trying for years, but still cannot comprehend code. I don't know if it's tutorial hell or incompetence, but whatever I learn code-wise I tend to forget immediately. I can say I _did_ make one functioning game, but I honestly can't explain how I did it :\

[@astromonkey1757]

People spend way too much time watching tutorials and top 5 reasons why unity is and not enough time actually making games. And tutorial hell can really make you pick up some really BAD habits by teaching things in a very approximate way, like unity tutorials that use the method Destroy()....

[@mandisaw]

I think some of it is videos vs books, but also imposter syndrome & anxiety. Many of the tutorial hell ppl seem more afraid of being seen as a failure than of never finishing a game or learning a skill.

[@astromonkey1757]

@@mandisaw idk i think not finishing a game or not practicing a skill to learn stem from a lack of NEED. I quit my job and put myself in a position of need, so i learnt drawing, i made games, ofc this spawns a pletora of other psychological problems like bouts of depression, anxiety but at least you grow. So idk, people love to label themselves with mental diseases as a form of de-accountabilization or whatever else

[@mandisaw]

@@astromonkey1757 Ah, that's the "jump in the deep end" mentality. My exp is that that stress & anxiety works *against* learning and creativity. If you need to master a skill to eat/live, you will be desperate, cut-corners, race through what should be carefully pondered & absorbed. Keeping my day job, and knowing that my needs are met means that I could both focus on my studies, and feel truly relaxed in my game-dev pursuits. That adrenaline can come from being excited to learn something new, or from successfully implementing some system/aspect of my game. Don't need to jump out of planes to enjoy flying 😅

[@LudusPaxStudios]

Just start doing it. Just start working on a game practice, go into brackeys game jam or do as many game jams as possible. Tutorials or not its fine. Just do what works for you. After a while you will actually stop using tutorials because you will know how to do things. Just my opinion. Do what works for you.

[@AvexFuddle]

Hey! I just made flappy bird! 😡